For those of you who did not get to listen to Philippe Sands on "Fresh Air" with Terry Gross, here is the link:
Philippe Sands Considers a Legacy of Torture.
The interview is a devastating critique of Bush/Cheney team's torture policy, and I recommend settling down and listening to the entire 38 minutes. I am serious, not a minute goes by that an interesting angle to this story does not come up (credit Terry Gross as well). I had not heard Mr. Sands (British professor of law at University College in London and author of "Torture Team") speak before, but I think his voice needs to be heard. Not only does he not overstate the case, but he speaks with such authority on the topic that I believe his voice may actually spur action. I know my yelling and screaming certainly hasn't made anyone listen!
I will include some highlights below the fold, but I cannot emphasize enough that you need to listen to the entire thing. This interview needs to be heard, above all by folks who haven't really been thinking about this issue, or not enough to conclude action is needed. I believe Mr. Sands can raise the consciousness of this issue in such people. Please spread it around if you agree!
Some highlights of the interview (from my memory as no transcript yet):
- Pointing out that the most "at risk" persons may well be the lawyers who made up the BS to provide "legal cover" to torture and abuse prisoners. Addington, Haynes, Gonzales, Bybee, Yoo etc... Though I was disappointed (not surprised) to hear him say that prosecutors he has spoken with "recognize the political difficulties" in prosecuting VP or Pres of the US, he does point out the risk Cheney put himself in by acknowledging "helping get the process cleared" on waterboarding. In addition, with regard to preventing this kind of thing from happening again, I do believe that holding these lawyers accountable would be effective. Legal counsel that realizes it may be subject to prosecution would likely be less prone to issue patently absurd opinions.
- An interesting discussion about the mechanism by which foreign prosecutors may try to extradite/investigate these enablers of torture and inhumane treatment of prisoners via a discussion of the Pinochet extradition.
- Why these prosecutors may be more likely to act if the US does nothing to establish accountability (and even moreso if "preemptive pardons" are given by Bush).
- Details the legal obligation that the US and all other countries have under the Convention Against Torture to investigate suspected torture or abuse. Also interesting background about the Convention's development and intent.
- Details how military lawyers he has talked with (who were as a whole quite opposed to the administration's policy and legal opinions) are hopeful that the Obama administration lawyers will respect the rule of law.
- Follows up with an interesting hypothetical question about what Eric Holder may face should he be asked if waterboarding is torture in his confirmation hearing (please somebody ask!). He can either worm his way out of the question like Mukasey, or state the truth, that it is torture. If he states it is torture then the natural implication and follow up is "under our legal obligations, mustn't an investigation take place?"
- Most interestingly, why a "blue ribbon committee" or "truth and reconciliation" process may not do the trick. Can you imagine Dick Cheney saying "I'm sorry, I was under extreme stress, the country was attacked, and I authorized things that should never have been authorized." He points out that foreign prosecutors will be much more likely to investigate if no real admission of understanding the error of these policies is made. And that obviously no high ranking administration official is likely to admit such error...
Anyway, such an intelligent and competent discussion, I highly recommend you listen to the whole thing. I personally plan on sending it to my friends and family who don't have this issue up on their radar.
Best, A4Q