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Liberals, eager for an organic future in farming, have not seen the carefully-crafted corporate traps that, this year, are criminalizing and dismantling most aspects of farming.  And there are ones still coming - attacks on the three things at the heart of organic farming - seeds, manure, and earthworms.  

+  Manure (not chemical pesticides or fertilizers) is now listed as a source of seed contamination, a set up to ban its use for the sake of "food safety."

+  Farmers' seed storage areas are now listed as a source of seed contamination, a set up to require "FDA-certified facilities" beyond small farmers' means.

+  Earthworms are now listed as an invasive species, a set up to eradicate them through spraying, destroying the floor under everything - the soil.

Farmers are being aggressively attacked and living in fear, heritage animals are being located for easier destruction through disease scares or "bioterrorism" to facilitate the substitution of genetically engineered (corporately privatized) animals, and through force and deception, farmers' ownership of US farmland is being stripped away, perhaps for use as collateral on the bailout.

2009 appears to be the year for the trap to shut.  

The excitement over Obama and the upset over the economy provide a distracting cover for the disappearance of farming in the US.  A White house "farmer" and an organic garden on the White House lawn are a cruelly empty show, because out in the countryside, farming is being systematically and aggressively killed by the government.  Vilsack was not selected by mistake.  Vilsack, Vil[e]sack or Vil[lage]sack, he has a job to do that Monsanto wants and it is proceeding on target while liberals see "a White House farmer" as a sign Obama cares.

Some history

"The Young Executives Plan to Liquidate Farming" Congressional Record

Clinton connection to Monsanto and industrial agriculture

Monsanto inside the FDA

Dismantling of sustainable farming

Monsanto outside the FDA

Monsanto goes after Steve Hixon, a seed cleaner

Rural Cleansing

USDA largest regulations ever - NAIS and Premises ID

What is NAIS?

Concerns about NAIS

Draconian penalties under NAIS

Is Premises ID a US farmland grab?

What are the legal questions around Premises ID?

Out in the countryside - USDA attacks on non-corporate farmers

Worries of Paul-Martin Griepentrog

Wisconsin's state agriculture department threatens Griepentrog

Raid on Mark Nolt, a horse ad buggy Mennonite farmer

Farming communities living in fear of the USDA attacks

The means of pushing this all forward:

Distortion of science

Ramped up fear of disease in the public

Intimidation of farming communities

International plans dressed in humanitarian concern

The control and profit in "alleviating hunger and  suffering"

A new civil rights movement

Civil rights implications of attacks across all sectors of farming and bars to farming

Petition seeking help from left and right anti-coporate constitutionalists

Originally posted to Scaredhuman on Sun Feb 01, 2009 at 05:30 PM PST.

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Comment Preferences

    •  Luckily (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      RiaD, 4Freedom, Argyrios, Nailbanger

      the industry is still growing in these bad times.  It grew about 5.6% last year, I think.  It's slowing, but not doing terribly.

      Unfortunately, most of that is industrial organic, but it's the lesser of the evils.  It's progress.

      •  You need to read the links. It's all (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        gogol, Orinoco, rossl

        booby trapped.  People want it and it is being dismantled this year.

        •  You really think (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          mimi9, decafdyke, RiaD

          all of this stuff will result in it being "dismantled"?  Haven't these anti-organic forces been at work for years, since at least the 1970s?  What's the difference now?

          •  Like everything else NeoCons ruin it from within (3+ / 0-)

            Even if this diary is not written by Pro Journalist or 100% acurate it is better than most MSM drivel.

            The Conservatives in the U.S. are corporatist ghouls.
            They are like magnets for environmental destruction and human suffering.

            NeoCon = USA/Canada
            NeoLib = Everywhere else

            Corporatist Plutocrats in my book.

            Either we have equal rights in all things or we have no rights at all.

            by MinistryOfTruth on Sun Feb 01, 2009 at 10:27:10 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  Neither of these responses answer my question (0+ / 0-)

              What makes this year different from any other year?

              •  Were you asking me? I didn't see your (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:

                questions which are really good ones.

                Yes, they have been doing things for years, such as HACCP which wiped out 72 small processors in Kansas alone and made USDA facilities the only acceptable ones - though there had been no e-coli issues in the small private processing plants which supported local communities and assured local food.  HACCP actually lessened inspections.

                But NAIS is much more massive and onerous than HACCP which only affected processing of meat.  NAIS will affect EVERY farmer (or person who wishes to raise even a couple of chickens) and is capable of destroying all those farmers who are left and setting the bar so high it essentially blocks the entry into farming of anyone else.  It is supposed to become become mandatory this year.  In fact, the USDA extended its comment period for 60 days on it because of Obama and looking at all Bush administrations regulations but things are moving rapidly and comments rarely stop the USDA.  There is a fortune involved here and total corporate control so they aren't likely to say okay they'll stop.

                Read this for a fairly complete (doesn't include the substitution of genetically engineered animals after slaughter of normal animals or Premises ID (which some people see as a potential mean of taking US farmland for collateral on the bailout) but just on its own, it's apparent NAIS is an Orwellian and monstrous threat - and set to locked in place this year.

                Premises ID, separate from taking over all US farmland, clearly strips down full property ownership from anyone who signs on - and people have no choice about it.  And it includes an easement on each piece of land which will allow for warrantless government entry there, which devalues the land and offers no compensation, and which makes the land less valuable in any sale.

                And that doesn't even count the FDA regulations which criminalize almost all parts of crop farming.  The portion about seed cleaning equipment goes into effect this year.  When the other parts start being enforce is anyone's question since no one is even looking the seed cleaning equipment part yet.  But the other parts are a cocked gun at every piece of normal crop farming.

                I hope that answers the questions which I am very glad you asked.

          •  The Police State? (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            truong son traveler

            what is the difference when Homeland Security  has carte blanche and a fierce loyalty to the corporate thugs contracted to do their own investigations and enforcement?

            Your endless optimism is refreshing though.

    •  Thanks for all the work (8+ / 0-)

      My parents are into organic farming on a pretty large scale (plants, no livestock) and yet they're... republicans.

      I'm definitely forwarding this.

      Chaos. It's not just a theory.

      by PBnJ on Sun Feb 01, 2009 at 06:01:01 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Wow (11+ / 0-)

    Farmers are being aggressively attacked and living in fear, heritage animals are being located for easier destruction through disease scares or "bioterrorism" to facilitate the substitution of genetically engineered (corporately privatized) animals, and through force and deception, farmers' ownership of US farmland is being stripped away, perhaps for use as collateral on the bailout.

    And your proof for this is what exactly? Because at first glance it sure sounds like all the rest of your diaries... Nuttery.

    "Cunnilingus and Psychiatry is what got us here," Tony Soprano

    by Larry Madill on Sun Feb 01, 2009 at 05:34:25 PM PST

    •  Might be the mode rather than the message (6+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      melo, PBnJ, Halcyon, RiaD, rossl, staredecisis

      that was your trigger.

      I own a health food store and have been reading up on Codex Alimentarius, a WHO initiative to "harmonize" the global food supply. Couple that with info in the DVD "The Future of Food", and you have other vantage points on the MIC's efforts to control us via drugs and food from cradle to grave.

      Freedom is participation in power. Cicero

      by 4Freedom on Sun Feb 01, 2009 at 05:51:46 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  As much as I love and admire your sig (9+ / 0-)

      the diarist and this diary are from from nut/nuttery. The monopolistic business practices of Cargill/Monsanto et al are entrenched into law via food "safety" laws that favor massive factory farming with "concern" for small farmers analagous to the republicans lip service to the small business owner.

      There is ample information on the web and elsewhere to support simplehuman's points. If you are so inclined you might investigate mulch gristmill our own OrangeCloud's Lavida Locavore the national family farm coalition sustainable agriculture coalition http://sustainableagriculturecoaliti...

      Insidious infiltration doesn't do justice to the extent to which Cargill/Monsanto et al have managed to conflate their own needs with those of the American populace.

      "And tell me how does god choose whose prayers does he refuse?" Tom Waits

      by madaprn on Sun Feb 01, 2009 at 05:59:16 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  I don't see the difference (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        grrr, RiaD, 4Freedom

        between what you're saying and what the diarist is saying.

      •  So (7+ / 0-)

        you are with her on Obama colonizing Africa, and Monsanto is the KKK?  

        How 'bout the

        vaccinations in the third world that have been causing sterilization, put out by the WHO and the Rockefellers who were behind eugenics

        She's frequently wound up on the North American Union too.  Are you with her there?

        Darwinic pilgrims claim the image fills them with an overwhelming feeling of logic. --The Onion

        by mem from somerville on Sun Feb 01, 2009 at 06:09:04 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Jesus. (5+ / 0-)

          I thought this diarist was just staunchly anti-GM and pro-organic (which while a little black and white, isn't that far from the mainstream) but that's heading towards cloud cuckoo land in a black helicopter piloted by Abominable Snowman.

        •  no (5+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          mimi9, RiaD, ferallike, Argyrios, rossl

          My comments are focused on the present diary.

          The diaries you reference are tinfoil for sure.

          We have been in the midst of an unfortunate hegemony between industrial agriculture, academic agriculture, and the government agencies supposed to be regulating agriculture while the basis of public good has been supplanted by private profit and economies of scale. I am skeptical about anything including information and policy birthed from that unhealthy alliance.

          That's it; nuthin' about the North American Union nor Lou Dobbs.

          "And tell me how does god choose whose prayers does he refuse?" Tom Waits

          by madaprn on Sun Feb 01, 2009 at 06:24:15 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  No (4+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            ben masel, JohnnyRook, Argyrios, kyril

            you said

            the diarist and this diary are from from nut/nuttery.

            Some people who stumble upon her diaries see a few keywords that they agree with, and without any critical evaluation of her claims agree with the keywords.  

            People should be more careful and consider the sources.

            Darwinic pilgrims claim the image fills them with an overwhelming feeling of logic. --The Onion

            by mem from somerville on Sun Feb 01, 2009 at 06:31:45 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  I don't agree with "keywords" (0+ / 0-)

              But I agree with what he wrote (except for maybe a sentence).  I haven't looked at the links, though.

            •  I will parse more carefully in the future. (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:

              "And tell me how does god choose whose prayers does he refuse?" Tom Waits

              by madaprn on Sun Feb 01, 2009 at 06:41:11 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  mem from somerville plays this tin hat stuff (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:

                again and again.  Meanwhile, the same material is getting thousands of hits at Oped News and beyond.  

                Why are you cowed?  It's obvious the diary is serious and based on concerns you already have.  One use of the word "nut" and people quit using their own ability too think.

                I have two responses to mem who is known for derailing discussions of diaries that, at a minimum, raise important questions.  There is no addressing the issues themselves.  It's always name calling and things out of context and words put in the diarist's mouth and defined as extreme.

                You might look up how industry actually pays companies to go online and disrupt discussions just like this, and realize that once I started getting serious attention, this guy shows up.  


                And there are also basic ways one has discussions at all and ad hominem attacks are worthless.  A valuable discussion let's people consider the issues and not be distracted by nonsense.  It also depends on listening and taking in things that are new and giving oneself room to let in ideas that are challenging- whatever they are.  Not an easy thing to do when there are hounds repeating "nut" and "tinfoil" and doing all they can to make sure anyone who even thinks about the ideas feels awkward and threatened they'll be labeled themselves.

                Look at my other diaries and see how much the same comments are made by mem and how people have even objected and finally those people quit commenting because the discussion goes nowhere.  

                I am offering ideas.  mem is offering name calling and not a single contribution to the discussion.  The effort is purely to damage credibility and wreck the discussion.  Look how cowed you just were.  

                At Oped News, they don't allow this kind of attack and the comments are valuable and people are sharing ways to connect and reaching organizations and activist stuff happens.  

                Don't let a bully affect you.  Take the diary, read it for yourself, see what value it has or doesn't, and trust your own judgment.  Don't let name calling make you feel you did wrong to value something.  Notice this is only creating suspicion and adding nothing.  What do you value?  

                •  Oh, no (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:

                  your work stands on its own.

                  I stayed out of a few diaries to see what would happen, and it was clear that others fully understand the unsubstantiated, hysterical, and inflammatory conspiracy-laden material for what it is.

                  In fact, I also encourage everyone to re-read all of the material and click all the links.  It will only be more clear.

                  I also encourage you to continue to post at OpEd News, where you are getting a better reception. Their foil is set differently I see.  The also enjoy 9/11 Truthers.

                  Darwinic pilgrims claim the image fills them with an overwhelming feeling of logic. --The Onion

                  by mem from somerville on Sun Feb 01, 2009 at 08:31:00 PM PST

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  Perhaps (3+ / 0-)

                    you might consider that you are tin foil hatting this diarist just as complain they are doing the same of Monsanto ect. You are seeking this diarist out and frequenting the diarist's dairies just so you can point out the diarist's shortcomings. You are placing a great deal of time and effort into searching out links and so forth just as a what you call a 'truther' searches through all the available data on 911 to support their point of view.

                    As an organic homesteader I can tell you that there is truth to what this diarist is writing. Monsanto and other profit driven organizations are attempting to monopolize food because what a great capitalist conquest that would be. Unfortunately all the open pollinated seeds and rare breed animals that will go extinct if they succeed will more or less doom future generations of humanity to famine of epic proportions. There will only be a few kinds of seeds and a few kinds of cows that will easily be wiped out by unfavorable conditions.

                    I can't say that all of this diarists facts or opinions are accurate but the essence of the diarist point is and that is the corporate driven world is getting into our food supply gaining short time profit that will lead to long term famine and deprivation.

                    •  Thank you. I believe this commenter may be (0+ / 0-)

                      doing this for others.  

                      It has been too concerted, too worthless to the discussion, too aimed at destroying discussion, too devaluing of diaries that are so obviously based on reality and providing good information.

                      No one is perfect and I am open to discussion but I no longer respond to this commenter because the aim to derail discussion of biotech's immense problems is so plain.

                      You are doing good work with your website, by the way.

                      Thank you for your comment in support.

                      •  I went (0+ / 0-)

                        and reviewed your other dairies and comments after my first exchange with another negative commenter and I think that you are experiencing a systemic problem. I have observed a negative trend here at dkos in how the community deals with dairies they find undesirable.

                        The owner of this site wants a seat at the table, the democratic party and administration here wants this site to be seen as legitimate journalism. So they do not want conspiracy dairies and other dairies that might ruffle the feathers of the political elite or make this community look like a bunch of crackpots. However, they also value the open forum format as well as the traffic and income that is generated by having so many diverse points of view.

                        So the way they have reconciled these to issues i.e. undesirable dairies and a desire to respect diarists freedom of speech is to have the community bully unwanted dairies and diarists out of existence. When a diarist  is seen as a conspiracy theorist or some other undesirable writer the community descends into the persons dairies and disects them. There are of couse people who have abusive and bullying tendencies and so they see that there is permission given to attack this person so they gleefully jump in as well.

                        The diarist is bullied and attacked until they leave or react poorly and then they are troll rated out of existence. So the community gets to believe that freedom of speech is valued and people are free to express their opinions but they also get to control the content of this site. All dissenting voices are simply shouted down. Far more energy is put into these type of behaviors then is put into working on any real change.

                        Any way I left a comment on your last diary that my wife also attended Wellesley College. Good luck with your continued diaries and I would think your strategy of ignoring negative commentators is a good one.

                        •  Thank you for your thinking on this. (0+ / 0-)

                          The contradiction between claiming to be open and the bullying that has gone on has made me think poorly of this blog as a forum for ideas.  

                          What is ironic is that people here are very ready to believe Bush had complex schemes in favor of corporations and to see his ties, and that is all commonly accepted.  To believe that that becomes "conspiracy" theory the moment it crosses over into Democratic territory is strange.  

                          As is laying out specific things going on, on the ground and in regulations which show a pattern (one those involved already already are associated with strongly), and call that conspiracy theory.  It is as though one is not supposed to simply add one and one and one and one and one and one.  Okay to mention each but it's conspiracy theory to say that adds up to six.  

                          And yes six is needed for people to see there is a pattern and to be warned enough to look after themselves.  Instead, leaving things fragmented so none of it becomes significant, just one more isolated bit of news, does nothing but add to the chaos and leave people feeling helpless.  

                          Conspiracy theories are nothing but overviews that are not yet accepted.  But in the case of what I am saying most of the time, it isn't even new or news at all that corporations are progressively taking over the world food supply.  To show how it is proceeding here is nuts and bolts.

                          Calling things "conspiracy theory" is an attempt to denude things of context.

                          Thank you for telling me about your wife.   Give her my best.  Nice to hear of a Wellesley woman who is doing what your family is.   We ought to start an anti-GMO Wellesley group and ask the college not to not become some biotech-hub, pushing GE-crops on others as Robert Paarlberg, a professor there, is doing about Africa.  

                          Really appreciate your explanation.  It is a relief to understand more what this has been about.  It has meant not only battling against bullies but dealing with the plummeting since of liberal commitment to open discussion.  

                          Best wishes.

                      •  A conspiracy! Of course! (1+ / 0-)
                        Recommended by:

                        Why didn't I think of that....

                        Oh, wait--I have to get on my conference call with Monsanto and George Soros now.  

                        Your sense of self-importance is seriously amusing.

                        Darwinic pilgrims claim the image fills them with an overwhelming feeling of logic. --The Onion

                        by mem from somerville on Mon Feb 02, 2009 at 08:17:22 AM PST

                        [ Parent ]

                    •  Yes, there's that keywording again (1+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:

                      You agree with a couple of nugget words that this diarist uses to reel in the uncritical, and therefore accept any unsubstantiated claims.

                      We don't accept unsourced crap on other topics.  There's no reason to accept it here.  

                      This person is dangerously misinformed, and uses fear like a Republican does to scare people who don't think very deeply about what she's actually saying.

                      If she's going to post it, she's going to have to accept that she's going to get challenged.  

                      Darwinic pilgrims claim the image fills them with an overwhelming feeling of logic. --The Onion

                      by mem from somerville on Mon Feb 02, 2009 at 07:31:22 AM PST

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  Thanks for letting me know the extent (0+ / 0-)

                        of the superficiality of my thinking. I didn't know you had access to my thought processes.

                        "And tell me how does god choose whose prayers does he refuse?" Tom Waits

                        by madaprn on Mon Feb 02, 2009 at 09:14:30 AM PST

                        [ Parent ]

                        •  Well, then, if you would (1+ / 0-)
                          Recommended by:

                          please explain the anti-earthworm legislation and guidelines to me. Because I don't follow it.  I asked the diarist, who is not providing that information.

                          And illuminate me on the import of the 1972 Congressional record.  

                          I could use some guidance from deep thinkers.

                          Darwinic pilgrims claim the image fills them with an overwhelming feeling of logic. --The Onion

                          by mem from somerville on Mon Feb 02, 2009 at 09:41:42 AM PST

                          [ Parent ]

                      •  dangerously misinformed? (0+ / 0-)

                        What is dangerous about these dairies? Too many petitions might get signed? There is no movement out there to combat this problem. The most these diaries could do is raise awareness.

                        However, if what has been done to banking, healthcare, army, and other systems due to lack of regulations and check and balances is done to our food system then that is truly dangerous.

                        There is quite a bit of republican bullying here at dkos that only defeats everything the progressive movement stands for.

                        •  The diarist is anti-science (0+ / 0-)

                          and advocates public health dangers like putting E. coli laden water on the food supply.  And providing raw milk to children.  Among other dangerous things that susceptible people might not fully understand.  But when asked to clarify what she means, that never happens....

                          I was so glad to see everyone understand the dangers of Salmonella in the peanut butter case because they didn't seem to take it as seriously in raw milk.

                          Darwinic pilgrims claim the image fills them with an overwhelming feeling of logic. --The Onion

                          by mem from somerville on Mon Feb 02, 2009 at 10:49:00 AM PST

                          [ Parent ]

                          •  We own two (0+ / 0-)

                            dutchbelted dairy cows and drink raw milk and kefir and we are extremely healthy. Pasteurized milk is dead milk. However raw milk for mass distribution is not possible and the diarist cannot make it so.

                          •  The typical (0+ / 0-)

                            dairy cow lives in complete filth. Some dairy cows get access to pasture but not enough pasture to sustain them. Other cows live in basically warehouse and wallow in mud and filth up to their knees. The cows are given massive amounts of antibiotics their whole lives and just like with humans diseases these unhealthy bacteria are becoming resistant to the antibiotics. Eventually nature will win and many of these cows will die off like the bees.

                            Aside from the antibiotics many of these cows are given hormones and steroids, all of which goes into the milk. A cows natural food is grass but each cow needs 1 to 4 acres of pasture so that is not possible. So they are feed genetically modified grains not their natural food. The grain makes them produce massive quantities of food but since it is not their natural food the grain has side effects. The first is since they are not designed to digest the grains it gives them gas and they burp out massive amounts of methane gas which contributes to global warming. The other side effect is that again as they are not designed to digest the grain their dung contains large amounts of the unhealthy e.coli bacteria.

                            The grains are genetically modified and bathed in pesticides. Livestock get even worse crap then what we get. They get the cheapest of the unnatural and unhealthy grains and bi-products. The hay they are given is also filled with pesticides and mold. All of this goes into the milk.

                            I one small privately own dairy that was own by responsible people and still the place smelled horribly. It smell like sour milk, cow dung and urine with an overwhelming overlay of bleach. I don't know that the standard practices are but I know that bleach is a big part of it and it is highly likely that some of that gets into the milk.

                            Large dairies are like assembly lines. Cows are intelligent and love routine so they just get in line to be factory milked, feed and sent back to the muck. They milk hundreds, or even thousands of cows so there is not way to keep things clean without massive amounts of bleach and so forth.

                            Then these massive amounts of milk with god knows what in them has to be pasteurized or it would kill people. it is filled with all kinds of unhealthy pathogens and the cows themselves are unhealthy. In America when it doubt just boil the crap out of it and nuke everything. The same attitude we took in Iraq is taken towards our milk.

                            In raw milk there are many strands of liven health bacteria. Milk is a living food. No one would suggest that a mother boil her breast milk before giving it to her baby. What the baby needs is alive in the milk. It is the same with raw cows milk. If it is handled properly and the cow is healthy then raw milk is a blessing.

                            My family and I got our first dairy cow over 3 years ago and we knew nothing about it. We soon found having a dairy cow is incredible. When you have a family dairy cow you have a relationship with it like a cat or dog but in many ways a a much different level. You interact cows daily and there is like with a pet a share communication and consciousness. The cow has different sounds they make to let you know what they need and they can undesirable a variety of words and prompts.

                            Because of this interaction the cow operates a secondary immune system. Cows have vastly superior immune systems and if you are getting sick the cow will get some of the virus that you have and produce antibodies that you get from the milk just as a mother does for a child. And the best part cows are really great to be around. they are extremely grounding and very gentle and nurturing.

                            Our cows are dutch belted a rare breed that is related the Holstein that is the dairy breed of choice. Holsteins are the black and white spotted cows that we see everywhere. The Holstein is good at one thing and that is producing an obscene amount of milk. In some cases up to 10 gallons a day. So the corporate mentality being what it is the dairy industry has gone exclusively to Holsteins because of volume.

                            The Holstein breed has become overbreed and extremely unhealthy. I went to a farm with Dutch belted and Holsteins and the dairy manager told me that the Holsteins were always sick and always had diarrhea. the breed has been breed for oversized utters that drag on the ground. This breed now is totally dependent on antiboitics, grain and god knows what else. They are a vulnerable breed and because all of the other dairy breeds are not being used and dying off we could be a country with very few dairy cows with one quick plague.

                            Our cows here eat only grass and hay and do well on just forage but there are only 200 registered dutch belted in the world. the dairy industry has been made vulnerable by faulty modern industrialized practices.

                            The difference between a raw milk from a clean healthy grass fed farm and commercial milk that is sold in a store is not even comparable. They are two different things. The dairy industry cannot function without pasteurization or people would be getting sick left and right from their milk they would be getting sued. However, the raw milk laws effects small homesteaders like myself and small clean Amish and Mennonite dairies that sell good healthy raw milk. It also affects thousands of people that want good, healthy raw milk for their family but cannot purchase it from clean healthy farms.

                            so I support this diarist in her diaries about Amish farms being aide for selling clean milk while industrial farms are allowed to sell steroid, pesticide, hormoned, genetically altered grain, e.coli, bleach containing boiled swill.

                          •  What an incredible comment. Please, would (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:

                            you make it a diary here and post it also at Oped News?  

                            If you want, I will post it there for you.  There are some words missing so in a couple of places I'm not sure what you mean though I could guess.  Do a copy edit on it and then post it.  It's incredible and I know a lot of places that would be so grateful to have it.

                            Also, I might be able to get you a radio interview on this and have what you say turned into a youtube video.  Please reach me at Oped News by googling the article title.

                            What a powerful comment, and so educating in so short a space.

                            Thank you so much.

                            Best wishes.

                          •  Thanks (0+ / 0-)

                            I wrote about our homestead and I had a series of dairies about abuse(before we homesteaded I worked in a treatment center for sexual abuse) all of which I deleted. I will email you them when I get a chance if you are interested. I don't really want to post them again here.

                            We have a series of youtube videos and blogs about our cows already. My wife has one about why we hand milk (machine milking bruises milk.)

                            I would be interested in the other opportunities and will contact you. I will edit the comment as well and you can use it in a diary if you want.

                            I had thought about writing a dairy about this. One of our Mennonite friends that also owns a dairy cow said something very telling. We were talking about the abuse of the law on raw milk and she said "at least they let us have a cow." That comment is probably a good indication of where that community is at in regard to our current system. I thought of making that the title of a diary last year but we pursued other projects.In reality there is little benefit for me and my family to post here and I other priorities.

                            Thank you for you supportive comment.

                          •  What you do in your life and your ability (0+ / 0-)

                            to write about it as well as you do have tremendous value.  The left is dangerously disconnected from how food is grown or produced and is filled with scientific misconceptions as well, promoted by industry about dangers.  

                            This is a critical time for those who know about farming and can write effectively to begin to teach urban people the realities they are too distant from.  Often those realities are not "seemingly" political - such as your connection to you cow and how the milk it produces can be responsive to your health.  

                            People think they know science when in reality, they don't have two things that are central to science - experience of whatever is being discussed and an openness to/curiosity about/questioning of things that surprise.  They lack all experience with farming, with farm animals, with animal diseases, with the profound differences between industrial methods and the details you mentioned about feed and bleach and diarrhea, and normal farming.  

                            We need more people like you who can come into a liberal community and bring them facts they don't know.  They have overvalued "professional experts" and from them developed fact-distant assumptions about health or "food safety."  In how you are living, you are the only expert and that gives you an ability to bring people close to reality - and past mistaken concepts and assumptions.

                            Your video clip was just wonderful.  Thank you.

        •  You consistently leave off context, such as (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:

          "some people believe ...." or "the public is worried that ...."  or the context about mandatory anything in the face of large questions.  And that is as misleading as to call "wound up" quoting others about the North American Union and/or to mention it at all.


          •  Ah, no. (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:

            Direct quote of yours, not someone else's:

            Meanwhile the drug companies, seeing how valuable vitamin C is, is pushing to criminalize it in Canada and that would become law here - without our voting on it - if the North American Union passes.

            Another direct quote of yours:

            And it would become law in the US - and without any ability to vote against it - if the North American Union is passed.

            And if you'll check the other quote you'll find you didn't use weasel words.  

            You may edit out the diaries at some point but your comments will persist.

            Darwinic pilgrims claim the image fills them with an overwhelming feeling of logic. --The Onion

            by mem from somerville on Sun Feb 01, 2009 at 07:54:17 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

          •  I've heard of NAU, it's make believe, like WTO (0+ / 0-)

            and IMF and NAFTA and NATO.

                NAU I have only heard a little about and not always from trusted resources, but the WTO and NAFTA already limit our soverignty.
                These organizations and these conversations should be closer to the center of our economic conversations, not farther on the fringes.

            Either we have equal rights in all things or we have no rights at all.

            by MinistryOfTruth on Sun Feb 01, 2009 at 10:12:10 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

        •  Apply scientific method, hypothesize and test 1st (0+ / 0-)

              Therefore we can not discount anything that we have no proof to discount it with.

              Sounds contradictory, but it is the basis of possible reasoning as far as I am concerned.

              I.E., "Of course there is no aliens, I never seen or heard of any aliens! "

          Either we have equal rights in all things or we have no rights at all.

          by MinistryOfTruth on Sun Feb 01, 2009 at 10:07:46 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  I'm saying discuss facts and find agreement based (0+ / 0-)

            on facts.

                When necessary, refute opinion with fact.

                I may not entirely agree with something. If I do I try to learn about in order to learn the truth for myself based on facts agreed to by others and my own experiences. If I entirely disagree I still try to learn about it to better my arguement the next time.

                It is easier to declare "tin hat" than it is to research the fact.

                If the fact is false try to educate the person who holds the falsity as true, rather than deride them for having received misinformation.

                I mean, why else are we here? I thought the other guys were the ones that just yell things and swallow at first glance what they are told.

                Learn everything you can. Than share it freely. It will return to you exponentially.

                Knowledge is power

            Either we have equal rights in all things or we have no rights at all.

            by MinistryOfTruth on Sun Feb 01, 2009 at 10:22:50 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  The commenter in questions appears to be here (0+ / 0-)

              to destroy discussion.  He began showing up once the diaries began to receive a lot of attention and always says the same things, most of it out of context, full of name calling.

              You are right about how discussions are supposed to go and should have to explain.  The reason you need to is that something is wrong with how the commenter is operating and I don't believe it is accidental.

              Thanks again.

          •  Thank you for this as well. I count on (0+ / 0-)

            listening to people and not shutting off discussions by calling people names for trying to bring what they know or have read or have heard or are concerned about.

      •  Appreciate your comment and its detail (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        RiaD, forgore

        and extra information and your support.  Thank you.

    •  Read the links. (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
  •  Just went shopping at the co-op today (17+ / 0-)

    Came home a with cart full of organic food, local & not.

    The organic farmers here are doing better than the non-organic these days. They're not being attacked. I talked to one in the locker room at the gym a few days ago. He asked me if there's such a things as clean coal...

    This is not what I thought I'd be when I grew up.

    by itzik shpitzik on Sun Feb 01, 2009 at 05:39:53 PM PST

    •  You do realize (8+ / 0-)

      that just because many organic farmers are flourishing does not mean they don't have obstacles being put in their way. That's pretty illogical.

      In the section titled "Grass" in his book The Omnivore's Dilemma, Michael Pollan shows how an "alternative" grass farmer, Joel Salatin, is thriving DESPITE the many institutional barriers of a UDSA and FDA that are based on a corporate, industrialized and large-scale model of  agriculture.

      The fact that some organic and small-scale farmers are succeeding anyway is a testament to the huge demand for their products.

      •  I'm very aware of the obtacles. (0+ / 0-)

        Many small businesses have burdensome regulatory obstacles, most of them there for a purpose. Some burdens on small organic farmers should be eased but others should not in my opinion. I believe in health regulation even if I do not agree with every regulation.

        This is not what I thought I'd be when I grew up.

        by itzik shpitzik on Mon Feb 02, 2009 at 05:28:24 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  The issue is whether the regulation, under the (0+ / 0-)

          name of "food safety" makes any sense to begin with, who wrote it, who was at the table, who benefits, who could be destroyed.  And then any of them need a two-tiered system - one for massive industrial set ups and one for small farmers.  They must not be allowed to discriminate against small farmers and in any way overburden them.  Be sure the read the link on civil rights implications.

          If these things are a concern to you, you might want to join FarmOn.  Go to

          Thanks for your comment.

  •  asdf (5+ / 0-)

    +  Earthworms are now listed as an invasive species, a set up to eradicate them through spraying, destroying the floor under everything - the soil.

    What? You're kidding me? Where does it say that?

  •  Anyone see the movie "Michael Clayton?" (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    decafdyke, Wino

    "Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." - JFK

    by moose67 on Sun Feb 01, 2009 at 05:50:27 PM PST

  •  Less word salad--that's less painful than usual (11+ / 0-)

    but your bizarre and frequently self-referential links are still not making your case.

    Let's start with link #1.  What exactly is the 1972 Congressional record (if that is what it really is) supposed to be proving?

    And while you are at it, please indicate the specific current legislation that is looming that claims to do what you say it is doing.  Especially the anti-earthworm legislation.

    Earthworms are now listed as an invasive species, a set up to eradicate them through spraying, destroying the floor under everything - the soil.

    Prove this.  Extraordinary claims, you know....

    Darwinic pilgrims claim the image fills them with an overwhelming feeling of logic. --The Onion

    by mem from somerville on Sun Feb 01, 2009 at 05:51:30 PM PST

  •  You should join DailyKos Environmentalists (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    neroden, RiaD, ballerina X

    You can post your story there.

  •  Amazing, I will have to come back to this (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Chi, ballerina X, rossl

    diary later and look at your links.

    I only know that it is hard to find things like cheese made with no growth hormone grown milk. That's bad. Human beings are chemical miracles as we are, we don't need anything that might "beef us up" more!

  •  Here is a story about what (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    My wonderful State Legislature is doing

    Secret Agent fairy Princess twirling about performing acts of graceful espionage

    by ballerina X on Sun Feb 01, 2009 at 05:58:07 PM PST

  •  Great Diary (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Wino, hannahlk, rossl, MinistryOfTruth

    Keep this stuff coming to get the word out.

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