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For the past eight years, I--like many liberals--have gnashed my teeth at the Democratic Party's political spinelessness, watching them roll over for the Republicans and the Bush Administration time and time again. It's frustrating going through a decade where the only major party that comes even close to representing your beliefs seems to be run by incompetents who are so steeped in Beltway conventional wisdom that they mistake ritual capitulation for bipartisanship.

This has been one of the joys of Obama's candidacy and victory, in that he has repeatedly made fools of political commentators  and bloggers--myself most definitely included--by demonstrating that he plays a much deeper game than everyone else, that he focuses on long-term strategy rather than becoming blinded by the immediacy of tactical advantage. I still gnash my teeth when it looks like he's unnecessarily sacrificing principles or policies on the altar of the cult of bipartisanship, but he's been consistently right enough that I've been able to take a step back and stop fretting every time he makes a call that looks dumb. At this point though, I'm starting to wonder how much of this is due to Obama being frighteningly smart and competent, and how much is due to the GOP being--or becoming--spectacularly dumb.

The rise of the Know-Nothing faction within the Republican Party is a phenomenon that is neither new nor particularly arguable. You know who they are. They're the ones whose agenda is to suppress any kind of education or science that butts up against their ideology. They're the ones who when pressed for details utter pabulum, clichés, rote phrases and unintelligible gibberish--unintelligible not because the viewer is ignorant of the subject matter, but because the speaker is. They lie about things big and small, things new and old, because lying is the only way they can persuade the electorate, rejecting facts as biased the only way they can make their agenda and descriptions of the world comport with facts on public record. They embrace exegesis as a substitute for evidence. They are the Palins, the Cornyns, the Limbaughs. Their skills, such as they possess, are in demagoguery, not governance.

I feel compelled to note, at this point, that this is not to say all conservatives are dishonest idiots. Far from it. There are a sizable number of sane and reasonable conservatives who hold sincere beliefs about the way government and society should be run, beliefs that are to one degree or another informed and based on that person's experiences in life. And we need them to either take back their party from the ones who glorify ignorance and blind ideology, or form a new one whose voting base is not completely, irredeemably insane.

I won't go so far as to say such a split is inevitable. Pundits said similar things after the Democratic realignment of 1992, and in 1994 the GOP swept into control of Congress behind their Contract with America. Indeed, more than one parallel has been drawn between 2008 and 1992, and some of them have merit.

What I will say is that while the split isn't inevitable, the GOP seems to be working incredibly hard to make it happen. The social conservative wing of the Republican Party has long been unhappy with the way the GOP treats them like the ugly girl who gave them a ride to the prom so that they could dance in public with the hot rich chicks. The main thing that's kept them in the GOP for so long has been the distinct lack of any major party alternative. Indeed, John McCain's candidacy and selection of Palin for VP could be viewed, metaphorically, as a political marriage of convenience between the sane and corporatist elements of the GOP and its more ignorant, medieval elements. The fact that the country overwhelmingly repudiated Bush Republicanism in 2006 and 2008 fazes them not a bit--they view this, bizarrely, as a vindication of the conservative agenda.

Let's take a moment to unpack that a bit. Under normal circumstances, a party which had just held the presidency for eight years and all three branches of government for most of it, a party who had nearly every possible advantage to allow them to enact their agenda, would look at their crushing losses two elections in a row and take this as a major Come-to-Jesus moment. Instead, conservative activists see it as evidence that they were not conservative enough. Many of the Republicans in Congress who lost their seats were moderates, RINOs, politicians who had to get elected in solid blue or at least D+ districts and whose conservative credentials were squishy. McCain himself was deeply loathed by the hardcore conservative base, most notably for the very "maverick" qualities they tried to play up during the campaign.

There is one major problem with this feel-good delusion of theirs: it discards all other evidence to the contrary. These Congressmen weren't primaried from the right by another Republican, they were defeated by Democrats. McCain didn't lose the election to another Republican or a conservative Southern Democrat, he lost it to a black Democratic junior Senator from Chicago with the middle name of Hussein who was portrayed relentlessly in the media as being just to the right of Mao or Lenin and campaigning on a platform of turning Gitmo into a ski resort for out-of-work terrorists. The country didn't reject the GOP's offering of moderate candidates because they weren't conservative enough, they rejected them because these were largely Democratic districts, and because Obama's ground operation helped make even dark red districts competitive.

The end result of this is a party whose elected officials appear to be in a fiercely contested race for irrelevance and self-immolation, like The Charge of the Light Brigade as performed by precocious toddlers. America isn't a far-left nation and we're not on any kind of slippery slope to a Marxist revolution, but Americans like what they're hearing from Democrats a lot more than what's coming from the Republicans, and not only the polls but the last two elections--the only polls that ultimately matter--bear this out. Two thirds of the country prefers the Democratic proposals for the economic stimulus. Yet when the GOP had its chance to define themselves in the eyes of the country, to truly shine in the midst of a national crisis, their proposed alternative bill consisted of 100% tax cuts. It read like Santa's wish list for conservative anti-tax jihadists: abolishment of the Estate Tax, the AMT, and tax cuts for the rich and business interests.

This was the considered, official counter-offer from the GOP, from a party which had eight years to demonstrate that tax cuts alone are the solution to our fiscal woes, a party which just received an electoral drubbing of historic proportions. This was the most serious proposal that emerged from one of the two major parties in the United States.

This was lunacy.

And it's neither the beginning nor the end of the lunacy, either. Rep. Steve King (R-IA) recently uttered what John Cole noted may be the dumbest thing said in the last 20 years, spinning a convoluted hypothetical that begins with Khalid Sheikh Mohammed getting a trial in a federal court in the US for his central role in the 9/11 attacks, and ends with him being set free and gaining asylum and citizenship because he wasn't read his Miranda rights. McCain and others, in a further glide into the abyss of the Stupid Party, recently remarked that the economic stimulus bill isn't really a stimulus bill, it's a spending bill. If you're having trouble figuring out how King got from Point A to Point X, or what exactly McCain thinks a economic stimulus bill does if not allocate the spending of money, you're not alone. And unlike the Know-Nothings faction, you probably don't think Sarah Palin is your best bet to rescue the country from the Left.

At some point the sane elements of the Republican party are going to need a standard-bearer, someone to bring their message to the forefront. Right now there is a major war under the surface for the soul of the Republican Party, and the battle lines are drawn between the Palinites, who rally around religion, gay marriage and other culture war topics, and the rest of the party. For at least 25 years the Palinites have held tremendous sway in the GOP because of their power in numbers, mobilization and funding. But the Know-Nothings are just as capable of taking their ball and going home as any other interest group, and that choice may be before them sooner than they think.

Ultimately, the Know-Nothing agenda is a losing one. America's culture continues a slow but inexorable drift towards liberalization, as things that seemed scary and unthinkable in decades past prove in familiarity to not be so threatening after all. Gay marriage, opposed by a slight majority in Massachusetts before it was legalized, now enjoys support from two thirds of the state as people wake up and realize that gay people are getting married but the institution of marriage hasn't collapsed. Their economic ideology is based on smoke and mirrors, on assumptions that when tested in the marketplace have failed exhaustively. Their electoral success relies on keeping the public ignorant and suppressing science, and like all movements that depend on obscurity and ignorance, they wither when exposed to scrutiny--and if nothing else, we are in an age where technology and interconnectedness empower the ordinary citizen to level such scrutiny. They are dinosaurs, electoral losers who cannot govern the country even when given every imaginable advantage in doing so, and to the extent that their voice prevails in the Republican Party, the long-term political prospects of the Democratic Party remain bright.

The remainder of the GOP, that dwindling element of the party that is focused on good governance and long-term success, they see this. And they know that while their only chance to stop their slide towards a regional and irrelevant party is to jettison the Know-Nothings, they also know that without the votes and support of social conservatives they cannot ever hope to win another national election in this country. They lie in a death bed of their own making.

I say go for it. Unless Obama and the Democrats really hose this up--and mind you, betting against the political instincts of Congressional Democrats is rarely a losing wager--they are screwed either way. At least by splitting the party they can be electorally screwed without becoming a nationwide laughing stock. The GOP can keep the sane conservatives, splitting the Palinites off into their own Stupid Party where they can continue keeping The Daily Show and The Colbert Report in business. The sane ones can keep the elephant as their mascot, and remind people that their motto is "God, Country, Liberty" without the necessity of tacking on the parenthetical "in that order".

The Palinites, on the other hand, should choose a new mascot for Stupid Party, one befitting the party's seriousness and dedication to good government: the Lolcat. I imagine for a motto Redstate could simply post a picture of their nominee on Icanhascheezburger and have the community caption it and vote on one. I vote for "I CAN HAZ TACKS CUTS?", as that seems to be their answer to everything that doesn't have to do with religion or sex.

It's a good time to be liberal. Time to make some popcorn and enjoy the slow-motion train wreck that the Republican Party has become, while we leave the governing to the grownups.

Originally posted to Catsy on Wed Feb 11, 2009 at 12:40 PM PST.

Poll

What do you think will happen to the GOP as a national party in the next 10 years?

10%9 votes
29%26 votes
13%12 votes
37%33 votes
10%9 votes

| 89 votes | Vote | Results

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Comment Preferences

  •  Tip Jar (14+ / 0-)

    Buy the GOP a new party.

    Sin lies only in hurting others unnecessarily. All other "sins" are invented nonsense.

    by Catsy on Wed Feb 11, 2009 at 12:45:22 PM PST

  •  Intensify forward stupid power! (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    bustacap, JeffW, OrangeMike, Radical def

    I wanna quote another British poet.

    by Lazar on Wed Feb 11, 2009 at 12:45:32 PM PST

  •  They gonna split up (8+ / 0-)

    It's looking like the Dobson/Palin faction and the Gingrich/Giuliani wing are going to split. So guys like Huckabee will have one kind of base, and the Romneys who represent big money will have the country club set. The uneasy marriage that somehow worked under Bush has come apart and both factions hate each other.

    Every day's another chance to stick it to The Man. - dls.

    by The Raven on Wed Feb 11, 2009 at 12:52:20 PM PST

    •  That's sort of the direction I see it going also (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      The Raven, JeffW, kat68, Radical def

      In some ways my post dramatically oversimplifies the fault lines within the GOP, but at the risk of doing so further, you really can describe the vast majority of Republicans as being either fiscal/small government or social conservatives.

      Sure, most people have a mix of the two to some extent, which is inevitable in a big tent, but the hard-line socons care a lot more about abortion and gays and religion than anything else, and the fiscons could generally give a shit about the Culture War nonsense but are mostly concerned with cutting taxes and regulation and drowning government in a bathtub. There is a certain degree of common ground, mostly focused around religion and opposition to liberalism, but fundamentally the goals of social conservatives are very dependent on intrusive government, and the deregulation and embrace of business interests ultimately go completely against the desire of socons to regulate the lives of sinners.

      The problem the GOP faces now is that they've spent the last eight years toeing the party line under Bush so relentlessly, voicing full-throated support for so many self-evidently and demonstrably insane falsehoods, they can't pivot and back away from it. They're faced with a catch-22: repudiate their insanity and see a nontrivial portion of the party walk away, or double down on it and hope that if they continue to repeat falsehoods often enough and loudly, they will continue to benefit from the he-said-she-said false balance in our media.

      They haven't yet realized that the landscape has changed.

      Sin lies only in hurting others unnecessarily. All other "sins" are invented nonsense.

      by Catsy on Wed Feb 11, 2009 at 01:11:25 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Damn, when I saw the title I momentarily (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    bustacap

    thought "Yay - a diary about me"

    Oh well, some day I'll be important enough to warrant my very own diary here at DailyKos . .

  •  I think the Palinites (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    JeffW, Septima, Radical def

    will take charge and the next election cycle will be nastier than the last. But they will continue to lose. Pandering to ignorance cannot prevail.

    "Everybody does better, when everybody does better" - Paul Wellstone 1997

    by yuriwho on Wed Feb 11, 2009 at 01:12:29 PM PST

  •  Thoroughly enjoyable diary. Thanks! (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    yuriwho, Septima, OrangeMike

    I really laughed at this line:

    McCain didn't lose the election to another Republican or a conservative Southern Democrat, he lost it to a black Democratic junior Senator from Chicago with the middle name of Hussein who was portrayed relentlessly in the media as being just to the right of Mao or Lenin and campaigning on a platform of turning Gitmo into a ski resort for out-of-work terrorists.

    In a perfect world, the Palinites would spin off into their own, instantly irrelevant, wack job party and the conservative Dems and moderate Republicans would unite to form some type of centrist party, allowing Dems to pursue a more leftist agenda. I think this would be great for American discourse.

    Or the Republican Party could just eat itself and die. That works for me, too. But I really do think we need two, strong common sense parties, so my vote is for scenario number one.

    •  Thanks (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      OrangeMike

      Every now and then I feel like channeling Neal Stephenson--poorly.

      In a perfect world, the Palinites would spin off into their own, instantly irrelevant, wack job party and the conservative Dems and moderate Republicans would unite to form some type of centrist party, allowing Dems to pursue a more leftist agenda. I think this would be great for American discourse.

      That would be great. It wouldn't be the first time in American politics, either; the ideological bases of the two respective parties have been fairly stable since the defection of the Dixiecrats, but extraordinary circumstances can produce very sudden and unexpected realignments, and it wouldn't surprise me at all to see the scenario you describe.

      Sin lies only in hurting others unnecessarily. All other "sins" are invented nonsense.

      by Catsy on Wed Feb 11, 2009 at 01:23:25 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Serious Business... (0+ / 0-)

    While somewhat amusing, this diary and analysis lacks the focus I think we need, to avoid recurring long term cycles of "nice cop, mean cop" trade offs.

    This is no laughing matter, really...millions of lives hang in the balance, perhaps the very future of humanity.

    The reason "Democrats" have been so spineless, so disgustingly complicit, such despicable collaborators with utterly treasonous Republican rhetoric and "programs" has primarily been low voter turnout.

    That phenomenon, which has been deliberately contrived by reactionary counter-revolutionary forces, has tended to allow Republicans and Blue Dogs to prevail, leaving more progressive candidates, elected representatives and caucuses and their staffs an isolated and relatively powerless minority, all too often forced to make onerous compromises to barely be able to prevent absolute reversals on the most fundamental issues, like civil rights, environmental protection, corporate greed, war, etc., and generally unable to prevent the major encroachments that have managed to weasel into our body politic like a parasitic cancer.

    The last thing I want to see is a more rational Republican Party, that can more readily win and exercise support for their blind faith in fundamentally anti-democratic "libertarian" capitalism.

    Indeed the extreme right may be primarily a scare tactic, being used by  Republicans to make their more "moderate" elements look more "reasonable", for an eventual comeback...but I don't think we need to advise or encourage them in that regard, lol, nor do we need to accept any jive that we "need" such "alternative" perspectives to have a "fair and balanced" democracy.

    What we need to do is purge our nation of such traitorous counter-revolutionary anti-democratic elements, once and for all, and give what's left of the Republicans and Blue Dog traitors the bums rush in 2010 and 2012, by calling off the electoral boycott that has been the entire and sole basis of their usurpation of power.

    Over 100 million eligible voters refused to vote in November, even with all the hype and urgently pressing issues confronting our nation.  Larger numbers can be expected to be inclined to hold back in the interim elections in 2010 and 2012.

    We don't need more watery appeals to "swing voters" and "undecideds", who are too ill-iinfomed, perverse in their views, or blatantly opportunistic, to make up their minds between Republicans and Democrats, or to see through the often deliberately blurred lines between right and left.  

    We've got the "more Democrats"...now it's time to bring forward the "better Democrats".

    We need to "capitalize" on the polarization that began in the 60's and 70's, and which has in many ways intensified since then, and use that polarization to the max, rather than allowing any further bullshit "bipartisan" blurring of those lines, or bemusedly waiting and watching the Republicans as they struggle and connive to figure out more effective means of continuing to rob us blind.

    We need to press forward, to the left, and relentlessly attack and isolate the right, in calling for an end to the electoral boycott, to turn out the kind of numbers in 2010 and 2012 that will inevitably, statistically, tend much further to the left than anything we have seen thus far, even with Obama's election.

    The people of this great nation want justice and peace, to save the planet, and that's the appeal that will work, to mobilize the masses, to send the reactionary right to the proverbial dustbin of history...

    If you look at this study of public opinion polls over the last 30 years, you may be surprised at how progressive and ready the American peoples are for a real change, and some real hope for the future.  And this study was compiled Before the present "collapse" (ie: looting and sabotage) of the economy, and the Obama election campaign...I'm betting the results have skewed quite a bit to the left, since:

    http://mediamatters.org/...

    But the change we need, for our hopes to be material, and not just some spacey, wistful, whimsical speculation, is not going to just "happen"...we're going to have to fight for it, and make it happen, against determined, ruthless opposition.

    The key is total, absolute mobilization of the electorate...this is no time to fall back on our laurels, or to be satisfied with Obama's election, nor to revel in the floundering of the Republicans, who remain very rich, powerful and determined to steal back whatever gains we have made over the generations, and into the future.

    This is the time to go into full attack mode, and to hammer the Republicans and Blue Dogs with the profound disgust and contempt they have earned among the vast majority of the American peoples, to now get those "better democrats" elected, and to quit merely whining and mewling in amazement over what despicable dogs the Blue Dogs have turned out to be.

    They got that way, and they have seized the power in our Party, due to electoral boycott, and it's time for us to call off that boycott, and to put out an explicit call for the traitors to now be purged from all levers of power.

    All Power to the People!

    "...a printing press is worth 10,000 rifles..." Ho Chi Minh

    by Radical def on Wed Feb 11, 2009 at 01:46:47 PM PST

    •  Thoughts (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      kat68

      While somewhat amusing, this diary and analysis lacks the focus I think we need, to avoid recurring long term cycles of "nice cop, mean cop" trade offs.

      Well, that's good. I was trying to revel in schadenfreude and I'd hate to think I got too serious.

      This is no laughing matter, really...millions of lives hang in the balance, perhaps the very future of humanity.

      Depending on what "this" is referring to, your comment is either on the mark but beside the point, or deeply overwrought. If by "this" you're referring to the crises we currently face as a nation, I can mostly get behind what you said. Fortunately I wasn't making light of our crises, I was making light of the political predicament in which the GOP finds itself, which I find not only hilarious but deeply fulfilling from a standpoint of universal justice.

      The last thing I want to see is a more rational Republican Party, that can more readily win and exercise support for their blind faith in fundamentally anti-democratic "libertarian" capitalism.

      I'm not sure that follows. Implicit in the argument that the sane elements of the GOP should split from the crazies is that it should expunge the blind faith and anti-democratic elements, who would no longer be part of this "rational" Republican Party.

      What we need to do is purge our nation of such traitorous counter-revolutionary anti-democratic elements, once and for all, and give what's left of the Republicans and Blue Dog traitors the bums rush in 2010 and 2012, by calling off the electoral boycott that has been the entire and sole basis of their usurpation of power.

      A popular notion. I hope you enjoy the political irrelevancy of the Democratic Party that will result.

      I can't help but think that you've misjudged this last election in the same way that the Republicans misjudged the elections of 2000 and 2004. We won a mandate for change, not revolution. The Republican Party is self-destructing right now in no small part due to their increasing insistence on ideological purity, in that the more moderates they jettison from the party, the more the extreme and further out of the mainstream the party becomes, to their own sorrow.

      Case in point: the Kentucky GOP, after winning a bare one-seat majority in the state house, was embarrassed by one of their own--Kent Williams--making a deal with the Democrats to support himself (an R) as Speaker, casting the deciding vote. He did this because he saw the increasing lunacy and influence of the far right in state politics. The reaction of the Kentucky GOP? They expelled Williams from the GOP, thereby opting to surrender their first majority in the state house in 150 years in favor of punishing a heretic.

      There is a nation full of reasons why Obama won, but a big part of his appeal is his moderation, his big tent and insistence on doing what works and is right, rather than what some left-wing litmus test says is the correct thing to do. To propose a witch hunt to expel the Blue Dogs from our party is to reject the very message which put us in a position of strength in the first place.

      If your intent is to do more or less exactly what the GOP is currently doing in order to self-destruct, by all means, burn the witches.

      Sin lies only in hurting others unnecessarily. All other "sins" are invented nonsense.

      by Catsy on Wed Feb 11, 2009 at 02:42:55 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  I agree with you 100 percent (0+ / 0-)

        BTW, are you sure you don't mean the Tennessee GOP?

      •  No attack intended, but...heh... (0+ / 0-)

        While you self-identify as "a liberal", I'm thinking your definition may be considerably more conservative than mine, if I have to be some kind of damn commie, "just like" the Republican nazis, for calling for implementation of the explicitly stated dkos strategy, lol.

        In your response to my comment you say the Republicans

        ...should expunge the blind faith and anti-democratic elements, who would no longer be part of this "rational" Republican Party.

        But that's the key problem with the Republicans, and the Blue Dogs, the notion that there is such a thing as rational capitalism, and that an utterly contrived " market" somehow reflects "public demand", and is thus some form of democratic acceptance.  They can shed the crazies, but they will still be Republicans, heh.

        Sorry, but let me say this more clearly: I would prefer to see the Republicans (and Blue Dogs) eat shit and die.

        Then, you bring the all too common (all too often Blue Dog) canard that I have to be some kind of left wing litmus test purity troll, on a "witch hunt", calling for "expulsion"... insinuating that I seek some kind of Stalinist (or fascist, lol) ideological extremism, in asserting that it's time to advance the "better Democrats" by calling off the electoral boycott, and replacing Republicans and Blue Dogs with more progressive elements.

        My intent is to follow through on the popular democratic mandate reflected in the opinion polls cited, no more, and certainly no less, and to call off the electoral boycott, which caused 100 million to still hang back on the sidelines, unable to really believe that the Democratic Party was really worthy of their hopes for change...neither of which points you seem willing to address.

        The "self destruct" mode for Democrats would be to, like the Republicans, refuse to recognize that their party has been doing it all wrong, for 20 years now, and that a really substantial, material change is needed, and wanted, and expected, from the people who voted for Obama...if we fail to deliver what the electorate has demanded, the "good cop, mean cop" cycle is indeed likely to continue, to the ultimate destruction of millions of lives, and, I think, very possibly, the entire planet, not to mention what's left of the minimal credibility of the Democratic Party.

        You can laugh that off, as "overwrought", I suppose, and you can prefer to indulge in flippant trivial speculative parlor games, but I'm not laughing...I'm seeking more meaningful content on dkos...oh well.

        The state of Kentucky can do better than to just elect some redneck conservative Republican who opportunistically poses as a "moderate", or even as a Democrat, just to go with the flow.  If we really work it on a grassroots level, electoral demographics can and must be changed, even in places like Kentucky, to the greatest extent possible, to allow or force the representatives to move to the left, or else to be replaced with more progressive new blood from the grassroots.

        I recently saw a really interesting dkos diary about how this has just happened, in Tennessee, of all places...

        While there will, no doubt, be limits to how far and how widely that can be accomplished, it still must be pursued, to the greatest extent possible, for the best results we can get, without just giving in to the notion that it's inevitably going to prove impossible to establish a progressive majority within the Democratic super-majority in the Congress, and just freakin' giving up on changing anything.

        I'm not proposing some kind of kamakazi disregard for constituent realities, such as might automatically hand seats over to Republicans, but I am proposing that we can do much better than what we have done with the present Congress, and that the general public is way more progressive than most people recognize, and can be moved a lot further left than most people recognize, with some down and dirty grassroots work.

        And that's why I've offered the poll analysis cited, to demonstrate that, in fact, this is possible, and that, in fact, this is not a "center/right" nation, where Blue Dogs are the "best" we can hope for.  We Can Do Better.

        The big difference between the dkos/Democratic strategy and the Republican strategy, is that we seek to move the constituencies and the representation to the left, and toward a more genuine popular democratic mandate for justice and peace, to save the planet, rather than to the right, as part of a completely contrived "swing to the right" based soley on lies and cheating, for the exclusive exorbitant profit of an elite few, and the bankruptcy, death and destruction of everyone else.

        If we have to be "the same" for even trying to resolutely beat their ass, no matter how different our methods, motives and goals may be, then what's the point you're trying to make?  Why even bother to get involved?

        Ooops...now it seems you read the same diary I did, about Tennessee, and you were not talking about Kentucky...lol...but anyway, this perfectly illustrates my point, that demographics can be changed, even in the South, with resolute grassroots struggle.

        "...a printing press is worth 10,000 rifles..." Ho Chi Minh

        by Radical def on Wed Feb 11, 2009 at 06:50:10 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

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