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From WSJ (full poll results here, MoE +/- 3.1) :

After a fairly smooth opening, President Barack Obama faces new concerns among the American public about the budget deficit and government intervention in the economy as he works to enact ambitious health and energy legislation, a new Wall Street Journal/NBC News poll finds.

These rising doubts threaten to overshadow the president's personal popularity and his agenda, in what may be a new phase of the Obama presidency.

As it turns out, people like Obama, approve of the job he's doing (though there's a drop with independents), and approve of his health care and SCOTUS moves.

There's good news for the administration, too, including tentative support for Mr. Obama's health-care plan and approval of his nominee for the Supreme Court. The public seems more optimistic about the country's economic future than it did a few weeks earlier, and Americans are still more likely to blame the last administration for the deficit.

What don't they like? Deficits. Auto bailouts. And the GOP. They really don't like the GOP (my bold).

-- 60% view Barack Obama favorably, which is down four points from April
-- 26% view Dick Cheney favorably, which is up eight points from April
-- 24% view Nancy Pelosi favorably, which is down seven points from April
-- 25% hold a positive view of the Republican Party, which is an all-time low for it in the poll
-- 45% hold a positive view of the Democratic Party

Back to the WSJ on the very important issue of health care, and take a close look at this (my bold):

On health care, the public remains open to persuasion. Without being told anything specific about the Obama plan in the survey, about a third of people said it's a good idea, about a third said it's a bad idea and the rest had no opinion. When given several details of his approach, 55% said they favored it, versus 35% who were opposed.

There was also support for the Democratic push to let people sign up for a public health-care plan that would compete with private companies, one of the toughest issues in the health-care debate. Three in four people said a public plan is extremely or quite important. But when told the arguments for and against the plan, a smaller portion, 47%, agreed with arguments in support of the plan, with 42% agreeing with the arguments against it.

At the same time, nearly half the participants said it was very or somewhat likely that their employer would drop private coverage if a public plan were available.

As for how to pay for the package, estimated at more than $1 trillion over 10 years, the public favors proposals to require all Americans to get insurance, to raise taxes on the rich and, to a lesser extent, to require all but the smallest businesses to offer insurance or pay into a fund.

But majorities oppose plans to tax health benefits, even if the taxes only apply to particularly generous plans. The public is divided about cuts to Medicare.

This is no slam dunk, but there is plenty of reason for optimism and good reason to remind the balky Senate about the importance of the public option. Without it, this isn't reform. However, the fact that everything needs to be paid for is not without notice.

As for General Motors, people are willing to buy, despite an 18/47 positive/negative rating for GM.

There was some good news for General Motors, despite the widespread antipathy to using taxpayer money to aid the company. More than half the participants said they are considering or have recently considered buying an American car. Of those people, 40% said the recent problems of the U.S. auto industry make them more likely to buy American. Just 14% said it made them less likely.

They just don't want their tax money going that way. As for approval numbers, from MSNBC:

According to the poll, 60 percent view Obama favorably, versus just 29 percent who see him in a negative light. Also, three-quarters of the public say they like him personally, and that number includes 27 percent who don’t like his policies.

But the president’s overall approval rating is at 56 percent, which is down five percentage points from April.

The drop mainly comes from independents, who backed Obama by 60 percent to 31 percent in April, but approve of him now by a 46-44 clip.

There's work to be done, and a "jury's out" rather than "I like Republicans" attitude from indies. And for all of us, passing health reform - real reform -  is more important than ever. What voters want to see is the President's policies work.

see also Drdemocrat's rec diary.

Originally posted to Daily Kos on Wed Jun 17, 2009 at 05:10 PM PDT.

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Comment Preferences

  •  speaking of public option (12+ / 0-)

    The group acted Wednesday in its typically cautious fashion on the health care reform effort, heeding concerns of its most conservative members while indicating it wants to be a team player and work with Obama. But critics say it missed a chance to go bolder and signal clear support for the public plan concept.

    "The AMA did not close doors. The AMA said we will evaluate all proposals in light of our principles," said Dr. Nancy Nielsen, the AMA's immediate past president.

    Nielsen, whose term ended Tuesday night, urged the more than 400 policy-making delegates before the vote to avoid language that could be interpreted as an endorsement of any public plan.

    Delegates followed her advice and declared support for "health reform alternatives that are consistent with AMA principles," which include freedom to choose health insurance and universal access for patients.

    Nielsen said the new language could include a public plan, but that it doesn't commit the AMA to endorsing any or all public options. The adopted measure now represents official AMA policy on this aspect of health care reform. Changes to any policy generally can't be made until the delegates meet again in November.

    http://dailyme.com/...

    "Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies." - Groucho Marx

    by Greg Dworkin on Wed Jun 17, 2009 at 05:10:56 PM PDT

    •  from the poll (8+ / 0-)

      "Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies." - Groucho Marx

      by Greg Dworkin on Wed Jun 17, 2009 at 05:16:47 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  nytimes poll from today (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      askew, cjk002

      does not show the drop in indy support. this may be an outlier.

      http://documents.nytimes.com/...

      First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win - Gandhi

      by mysticlaker on Wed Jun 17, 2009 at 05:29:36 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Modest Public Option Proposal (0+ / 0-)

      I have a modest proposal about the public option. I take it, we progressives, want a public option that is like Medicare.

      So the government creates one national "co-op", with heavy government oversight and top management cap at 4x pay of a senator. By charter it must cover everything Medicare does and only what Medicare does.

      It will pay exactly 112% what Medicare does for service. The "co-op" will have not be allowed to negoitate, advertise, or do anything except be like Medicare in every possible way. (expect paid for with premiums and not pay roll tax)

      The network would work on a straight take it or leave it bases offer to doctors and hospitals.

      It would receive not special governement funds after startup like the USPS currently operates.

      Just create a strong public option in call it a co-op if that will get 2-3 Republicans and the 3 renegade Dems.

    •  my guess is the AMA is afraid of insurance (0+ / 0-)

      companies - that results in very strange bedfellows.  Sadly, the AMA principles - if they were as vocal as they are now - and stood by them - we probably would not have the problem with the insurance companies that have too much power over the treatment care of the patient and too much of the share of money.  

      'When one tugs at a single thing in nature, he finds it attached to the rest of the world.' John Muir

      by mollyk on Wed Jun 17, 2009 at 07:05:03 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Honeymoon Over (7+ / 0-)

    Yes folks he snores
    and
    He Leaves the Toilet seat up

    But try to look at the Big picture

    Dear GOP&Conservatives If all you have to offer are Cliches and Hyperbole then STFU. Thanks XOXOXO

    by JML9999 on Wed Jun 17, 2009 at 05:12:09 PM PDT

  •  For the 42% who agree with this: (9+ / 0-)

    (Some/Other) people say that patients might not always have access to their choice of doctors and the government would lower costs by limiting medical treatment options and decisions that should be made instead by patients and doctors.

    We need to talk.

  •  The Dick passes Nancy (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Dallasdoc, Jeff Y, Losty

    that's gotta hurt.  Wonder what she thinks about that whole "off the table" thing now that The Dick is more beloved among Americans than she is.

    "When the government becomes a lawbreaker, it invites every man to become a law unto himself." ~ Justice Brandeis

    by ActivistGuy on Wed Jun 17, 2009 at 05:15:53 PM PDT

  •  sure, Pres. Obama hasn't been perfect (12+ / 0-)

    And then I have to say to myself:

    President John McCain

    Vice-President Sarah Palin

    Reminder that an imperfect Democratic POTUS beats that combination any day.

    "It's only in books that the officers of the detective force are superior to the weakness of making a mistake." (Wilkie Collins, The Moonstone)

    by chingchongchinaman on Wed Jun 17, 2009 at 05:16:10 PM PDT

    •  We're past that point now (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      mentaldebris, poxonyou, Jeff Y

      The campaign's over.  We won.  Now instead of acting like campaign workers we need to turn around and demand of Obama the same responsiveness we never got from Bush.  We need to teach our Democratic Congress that it had better listen to its constituents rather than its corporate contributors.  We need to learn how to be an effective pressure group within the Democratic Party, rather than just trying to elect more Democrats.

      McCain is so over.  Palin is a laughingstock.  The Republicans can't get their popguns out of their holster.  If this isn't the time to push through a big agenda of serious reform, when will be?

      "I would say to you that extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice!" Bzzzt! Sorry Barry, thanks for playing.

      by Dallasdoc on Wed Jun 17, 2009 at 05:22:24 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I have one question (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        mentaldebris

        why should Congress listen to the filthy peons rather than obeying the corporate lords and barons?  There's no consequences to blowing off/actively screwing the people, but huge consequences for failing to do corporado bidding.  If I was a bigshot pol, I'd tell the peons to suck rocks, too, because the people don't mean squat in this system any more.

        "When the government becomes a lawbreaker, it invites every man to become a law unto himself." ~ Justice Brandeis

        by ActivistGuy on Wed Jun 17, 2009 at 05:26:11 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  so do you contact..... (0+ / 0-)

          ....your Congresscritter?  Granted, I did this when we had two Repug senators, and fat lot of good that did, admittedly.  But at least I put in my $0.02.

          "It's only in books that the officers of the detective force are superior to the weakness of making a mistake." (Wilkie Collins, The Moonstone)

          by chingchongchinaman on Wed Jun 17, 2009 at 05:36:53 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  no we're not past it (4+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        mentaldebris, Jeff Y, jtown, cherish0708

        Remember Frank Rich's NYT column, such as:

        "[Jon] Voight’s devout wish was to 'bring an end to this false prophet Obama.'

        This kind of rhetoric, with its pseudo-Scriptural call to action, is toxic. It is getting louder each day of the Obama presidency. No one, not even Fox News viewers, can say they weren’t warned."

        The Republicans are a joke policy-wise, to be sure, but they haven't disappeared completely.

        "It's only in books that the officers of the detective force are superior to the weakness of making a mistake." (Wilkie Collins, The Moonstone)

        by chingchongchinaman on Wed Jun 17, 2009 at 05:26:21 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  power (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Dallasdoc

        to the people.

        Someone she call out the black people because they are probably the next to starting whining

  •  Obama criticized FOX News for its biased (0+ / 0-)

    coverage.  WTF, that's obvious to everyone and he just handed FOX something new to rant about.  That was not a smart move, Mr President.  Ignore FOX like us, please.  The White House must have other channels on the First Satellite TV.

    •  Does it matter? (6+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      jj32, Jeff Y, BrighidG, cjk002, cherish0708, moonpal

      FOX NEWS would smack Obama no matter what he says.

      McCain bashed the NYT and Obama bashes FOX NEWS.

      "Because we won...we have to win." Obama - 6/6/08. WELL WE DID IT!!! 11/4/08

      by Drdemocrat on Wed Jun 17, 2009 at 05:25:44 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  maybe he wants to give them something (0+ / 0-)

      to "rant" about. theyre like babies...keep them occupied with minutae.

    •  Disagree (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      cherish0708

      I think it was smart. People who only watch FOX never see any criticism of FOX. I have had conversations with two different people in the past two weeks who had no idea that FOX had a reputation for being biased, that they were dishonest and cut clips to misrepresent things people say, etc.

      So how do you draw attention to that? No matter how many times Keith Olbermann say it or Rachel Maddow or Jon Stewart, nobody is going to see it if they are only tuned to FOX.

      But even people who watch FOX will see coverage of the president on network news, for example. A statement by Obama criticizing a rival news network is likely to get coverage on news stations everywhere--forcing Fox to acknowledge that the president said it.

  •  Wonderful. Keith is touting the numbers (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Drdemocrat, Bush Bites, JML9999, Jeff Y

    oh...he's down 5 points in approval, he's a 56% at this point in his presidency...HE WAS BOUND TO MOVE INTO THE 50s MORE SOONER THAN LATER.  

    Ann Compton to President Obama at next presser: "Is it true that once you go black, you can never go back?" Obama: "WTF?"

    by dlh77489 on Wed Jun 17, 2009 at 05:16:58 PM PDT

  •  We knew this was going to happen... (4+ / 0-)

    ...sooner or later.

    No president has ever gone through a four year (or eight year) term without some bumps in his approval.

  •  CBS News/NYT also has a poll out tonight (12+ / 0-)

    Shows no slippage with an approval of 63%.
    CBS/NYT Poll

  •  Hmmm... (0+ / 0-)

    What does this mean?

    Three in four people said a public plan is extremely or quite important. But when told the arguments for and against the plan, a smaller portion, 47%, agreed with arguments in support of the plan, with 42% agreeing with the arguments against it.

    Are the 47/42 numbers mutually exclusive? Are people allowed to agree with both or was this an either/or type of question?

    •  the questions (click for bigger pic) (0+ / 0-)

      "Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies." - Groucho Marx

      by Greg Dworkin on Wed Jun 17, 2009 at 05:23:07 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  thanks for the info... (0+ / 0-)

        what really makes me uncomfortable is that the poll is sort of a push poll on health care...  The second question informing that people will may not have access to the doctors of choice - golly gee - that has been happening since the '70ies - but now it is scary?

        I believe the poll achieved it purpose - create fear and doubt in the public against the public option - sadly the public has been living with this 'concern' for decades....  And of course Insurance companies have been regulating the tests that doctors  and doctors whom you can see provide.... What the Obama administration is looking at unnecessary treatments, redundant testing, unnecessary testing, unnecessary surgery - based on the research that is done by health organizations - but does the question clarify that???

        sigh very, very misleading - nice job of poisoning the well... brought to you by the msm....

        'When one tugs at a single thing in nature, he finds it attached to the rest of the world.' John Muir

        by mollyk on Wed Jun 17, 2009 at 05:35:37 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  This is Great NEws For John MCCain.. (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    yg17, mollyk

    And everyone else against public option, this gives them more excuse to do what they want to do anyhow. Nothing.

    The New Health Care Reform Plan:

    Eat more Vegetables, Walk 1/2 hours a day, and Don't get sick..

  •  His gallup (11+ / 0-)

    and CBS number is still over 60%. so I am not overly concerned with that.

    What excites me is the public option number however, the senate should get off their lousy asses and include the option in. esp sen dod who should know better because he is representing sen Kennedy.

    If you can't drink a lobbyist's whiskey, take his money, sleep with his women and still vote against him in the morning, you don't belong in politics.Jess Unruh

    by FistJab on Wed Jun 17, 2009 at 05:19:24 PM PDT

  •  Honeymoon has got to end sometime (8+ / 0-)

    but Obama is still in the 50's in this poll despite a horrible economy, worsening unemployment, higher deficits, and bailouts for banks and car companies.

    Gallup poll Obama is 61% and and new NYT/CBS poll Obama is 63%.

    I will worry when Obama is under 50%.  

    "Because we won...we have to win." Obama - 6/6/08. WELL WE DID IT!!! 11/4/08

    by Drdemocrat on Wed Jun 17, 2009 at 05:19:58 PM PDT

  •  The one challenge is the Pubs are making some (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Jeff Y

    headway with the "deficit" problem.  They are constantly harping on it---and it is sticking.  Of course, we know who doubled the deficit in the last 8 years, but that was then----and this is now....

    "You know, my wife is so dumb, she is always asking me questions I can't answer."--James Inhofe

    by Phil S 33 on Wed Jun 17, 2009 at 05:20:24 PM PDT

    •  But the public doesn't blame Obama (6+ / 0-)

      for the deficit in this poll.

      I say the drop in this poll of Obama's numbers comes from 2 things:  bailout out GM (people have bailout fatigue) and rising unemployment numbers.

      If you look at Reagan's poll numbers, you can see his disapproval number increase as the unemployment numbers increase.

      But most importantly, Republicans are NOT getting any benefit.  They are even less popular than ever.

      "Because we won...we have to win." Obama - 6/6/08. WELL WE DID IT!!! 11/4/08

      by Drdemocrat on Wed Jun 17, 2009 at 05:31:01 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Public forgets too quickly (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      jtown, cherish0708

      I'm amazed that some people are still fooled by Republicans and the lies that come out of their mouth.

  •  I wonder if they oversampled Republicans (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    askew, dlh77489, mollyk

    or something.  56% ties today's Ras poll.  And Ras has always been lower than all the rest.

    •  NYT/GALLUP BOTH (6+ / 0-)

      have him above 60 (63 and 61, respectively).

      Ann Compton to President Obama at next presser: "Is it true that once you go black, you can never go back?" Obama: "WTF?"

      by dlh77489 on Wed Jun 17, 2009 at 05:23:55 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  what's interesting in the NYT poll (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        dlh77489, mdmslle

        As Mr. Obama finishes his fifth month in office and assumes greater ownership of the problems he inherited, Americans are alarmed by the hundreds of billions of dollars that have been doled out to boost the economy. A majority said the government should instead focus on reducing the federal deficit.

        But with a job approval rating of 63 percent, Mr. Obama retains considerable personal support among Democrats and independents alike. His rating has fallen to 23 percent among Republicans, from 44 percent in February, a sign that bridging the partisan divide may well remain an unaccomplished goal.

        Republicans don't like him, and their dissatisfaction drives some of the unfavorables up.

        http://www.nytimes.com/...

        "Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies." - Groucho Marx

        by Greg Dworkin on Wed Jun 17, 2009 at 05:26:43 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  They are upset he's succeeding on many fronts (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          BradF, Micheline

          In February they were perfectly fine with approving of him, because they'd hoped he would fail.

          Ann Compton to President Obama at next presser: "Is it true that once you go black, you can never go back?" Obama: "WTF?"

          by dlh77489 on Wed Jun 17, 2009 at 05:28:24 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  Excellent idea. (0+ / 0-)

          Ignore the fragile wavering economy and attack the deficits. Sounds like a recipe for economic disaster. I'd prefer to see a bit more stabilization and a change in focus off Wall Street.

          How about focusing more on Main Street? We promise we won't pay ourselves huge bonuses or buy private planes and jetset all over tarnation while toasting our windfall.

          One issue: The Constitution Uphold it or piss off. No excuses.

          by mentaldebris on Wed Jun 17, 2009 at 05:37:11 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  its more than that (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Micheline

          while we laugh at GOP ID at 20% the fact is those folks are signing up as indies.  We'll continue to see "false" drops in indie satisfaction in the coming months b/c the indies theyre sampling right now are NOT indies, their republicans who dont want to admit to being republicans.  They are still conservatives and they have no characteristics of indie whatsoever.

          this is going to screw results from here on out.  Indie registration does not make one an indie in truth.

      •  Funny, the NBC/Wall St. Journal poll (0+ / 0-)

        parallels Rasmussen's, but you have a host of polls over 60%. So take your pick.

        •  Any and all polls have to be taken (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Wildthumb

          with large amounts (not grains) of salt.  

          Ann Compton to President Obama at next presser: "Is it true that once you go black, you can never go back?" Obama: "WTF?"

          by dlh77489 on Wed Jun 17, 2009 at 05:29:36 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  tomorrow look at the pollster.com (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Wildthumb

          aggregate when they all get added in.

          it's not the approval that's interesting, it's the health care questions, concerns about the deficit, etc...

          "Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies." - Groucho Marx

          by Greg Dworkin on Wed Jun 17, 2009 at 06:02:47 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  But ... (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Wildthumb

            ... I don't think they're asking all the necessary questions about the deficit.  For example, would you favor reducing unemployment benefits in order to reduce the deficit?  Would you favor raising taxes to reduce the deficit?  Would you favor decreasing Medicare payments to reduce the deficit?

            Any poll only goes so far.

            Also, it's a politician's job to lead public opinion, and encourage Americans to do things they may not like for what they see as the greater long-term good of the country.  I think Barack Obama, Nancy Pelosi, Harry Reid, Dick Durbin, Steny Hoyer, and Jim Clyburn know this.

    •  It's possible. (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      mollyk

      "Because we won...we have to win." Obama - 6/6/08. WELL WE DID IT!!! 11/4/08

      by Drdemocrat on Wed Jun 17, 2009 at 05:31:53 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  November 2, 2010 (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    dlh77489

    Is coming up too fast for the Republican Party.

  •  It's a strange feeling being a proud member (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    mentaldebris, FistJab

    of the party (Democratic) that holds power in the White House and both branchs of Congress - I still feel like I'm getting my ass kicked every day.

    "Load up on guns, bring your friends, it's fun to lose and to pretend" Kurt Cobain-1991

    by Jeff Y on Wed Jun 17, 2009 at 05:23:34 PM PDT

    •  Obviously the legislators don't get that we are (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Jeff Y

      the ruling party. They are throwing the Dems mandate away by not endorsing a functional healthcare plan.

      Obviously the Republican proposals are not viable for most Americans, the Dems proposals sound better, but they are built on faulty assumptions of prosperity and cost control that wont pan out.

      We NEED single payer. Its the only way to solve the health care mess.

      "Rationally, single payer is the best system","our system is the worst, most expensive and least effective." - Ex-President Bill Clinton

      by Andiamo on Wed Jun 17, 2009 at 05:43:57 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  This is excellent news for John McCain (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    spyguy999, skillet, FistJab

    He has us right where he wants us

  •  The poll is obviously (0+ / 0-)

    Good news for John McCain

  •  as a pre-GOP defection indie (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Jeff Y, Micheline

    i resent the new indies who are simply just too embarrassed to admit being republicans.

    question: is there any way to adjust the polling numbers to reflect the fact that "suddenly" indies won't like Obama's policies when in fact they were just chicken-shit GOPers a few weeks ago?

  •  If Democrats keep pfussing out on healtcare (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Wildthumb

    they will become as popular as republicans.
    Time to deliver change, doggonit!

  •  'A Very British Coup'...one of the best political (0+ / 0-)

    movies...prolly very relevant Right Now....getting rid of the bloodsuckers ain't gonna be easy.

  •  This is interesting. (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    askew, jj32, Drdemocrat, Andiamo

    From the CBS/NYT Poll

    While Republicans have steadily increased their criticism of Mr. Obama, particularly on the budget deficit, the poll found that the Republican Party is viewed favorably by only 28 percent of those polled, the lowest rating ever in a New York Times/CBS News poll. In contrast, 57 percent of those polled said that they had a favorable view of the Democratic Party.

    Two different polls on the same day show the GOP at the lowest point EVER.

  •  Here's a solution for it (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    mentaldebris

    remove the employer tax exemptions for providing benefits, raise the capital gains tax 2% and place an across the board 2% income tax in effect to specifically pay for it.

    That would pay for it all, and then some. At some point, politicians are going to have to realize that we must raise taxes if we want to reduce the deficit.

    •  Tax the Rich (0+ / 0-)

      Tax those with the $$. The rest of us are barely able to keep body and soul together in this rotten economy. 10 % of the pop. owns something like 60% of the  $$, property and stocks/bonds etc. Tax these people, they can afford it.

      "It's better to die on your feet then live on your knees" E. Zapata

      by Blutodog on Wed Jun 17, 2009 at 05:35:02 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Perhaps, but we all share a responsibility (0+ / 0-)

        for health care, which I believe means we all share responsibility for paying for it.

        •  Price fixing/manipulation? Corruption? (0+ / 0-)

          Obviously, we can't afford the prices we are being charged... AND.. we have a corrupt leadership, basically, who allowed the insurance and healthcare industry to jack prices up to literally two or three times what they are everywhere else. They are criminals.

          Read this article

          What did happen in Massachusetts to make prices go up so much after their "health care reform"?

          Obviously, it could happen elsewhere!

          "Rationally, single payer is the best system","our system is the worst, most expensive and least effective." - Ex-President Bill Clinton

          by Andiamo on Wed Jun 17, 2009 at 06:48:58 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  I read that article last year (0+ / 0-)

            But the reality is that our health care system already has nodes of private ownership that the public likes.

            We spend too much of our GDP on health care, and as the population ages, that will only get worse. There is a way to make our system a heck of a lot better, reduce the GDP spent on health care.

            If we make the perfect the enemy of the good, as you are doing, we'll end up with nothing.

            •  Why not socialized medicine? (0+ / 0-)

              If we delay single payer for too long, that will be our only choice.

              "Rationally, single payer is the best system","our system is the worst, most expensive and least effective." - Ex-President Bill Clinton

              by Andiamo on Thu Jun 18, 2009 at 06:41:28 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

    •  ouch so (0+ / 0-)

      employers cant get tax exemption for providing health care and so all the employers can drop health care overnight leaving 170 million americans to go out and be forced to find their own private insurance or sign up for the public option - both of which will cost them more than their employer co-pay?

      ouch.

      •  No because the 2% income and capital gains (0+ / 0-)

        tax increases set aside for this allow the premiums of a public option to be low--lower than what Americans are currently paying.

        •  i have no problem wit the rest of it (2+ / 0-)

          i'm just i don't think the idea of dropping the tax exemption for companies who actually are providing health benefits is necessarily a great idea.

          my husband, before he was forced to take disability retirement, was paying about $100/month for insurance for himself, me and his two kids.

          after retiring, but before being approved for social security, we tried to maintain the insurance. we removed his kids since they lived with his ex in another state and she qualified for medicaid. So it was just me and him and it was 750/month. no way could we afford that. three months we lasted.

          i'm almost positive the public option wouldnt be 100/month. the only way you get rates that low for normal folks would be single payer, which doesnt look like is being seriously considered.

          fact is neither of us know how much the premiums would be and that would need to be practically set in concrete before you create a law that you know would cause massive corporate dropping of employee health benefits.

  •  Public Option Modest Proposal (0+ / 0-)

    I have a modest proposal about the public option. I take it, we progressives, want a public option that is like Medicare.

    So the government creates one national "co-op", with heavy government oversight and top management cap at 4x pay of a senator. By charter it must cover everything Medicare does and only what Medicare does.

    It will pay exactly 112% what Medicare does for service. The "co-op" will have not be allowed to negoitate, advertise, or do anything except be like Medicare in every possible way. (expect paid for with premiums and not pay roll tax)

    The network would work on a straight take it or leave it bases offer to doctors and hospitals.

    •  Socialize the whole system or else: (0+ / 0-)

      Let the Feds. send everyone to Public Med. schools that wants to go, for free, and then let them all work for the Gov't like in Great Britain. The ones that don't want to do that can pay for Private Med. schools and the go into private practice and take Ins. money or cash.  

      As for the so called Public option, it won't work because the health Vampire Ind. owns the Congre$$ body and soul and will make sure it's so poorly designed it fails badly. As an example look at the Medicare Drug benefit. It benefits the Drug companies is about all. If this is the kind of reform we get it's DEAD on delivery and with it a Dem. Congre$$ after 2010.

      "It's better to die on your feet then live on your knees" E. Zapata

      by Blutodog on Wed Jun 17, 2009 at 05:43:50 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Co-ops are privately owned, by their owners. (0+ / 0-)

      They are not "public".. They have no obligation to the general public, like a corporation.

      Instead of stockholders, they are owned by their clients, so obviously, they will try to not accept sick people, people would have to be healthy at the beginning, after they are accepted, then, if they get sick, they will need to stay in the co-op, and not move, because they won't be able to leave and get coverage elsewhere.

      "Rationally, single payer is the best system","our system is the worst, most expensive and least effective." - Ex-President Bill Clinton

      by Andiamo on Wed Jun 17, 2009 at 06:57:10 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  NY Times and MSNBC has pretty much same numbers (0+ / 0-)

    Public doesn't like closing Gitmo, either.

    •  Indifference? (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      auron renouille

      Maybe its the fact that they don't care. Gitmo closing, people may fell, will result in the US dealing with the detainees taking attention away from the economy and jobs. GM,I think deals with a little bit of selfishness in that people understand that the workers were not at fault but mistakenly think that it going under will not affect them. I also think that GOP harping on the UAW making out in the bankruptcy has taken root.

  •  When WAS there an effin' "Honeymoon"??? (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    sillycilla, jtown

    .
     The GOP and their Fox Friends came right out of the gate acting like petulant children in need of a nap, or a spanking.

     bg
    _____________________

    "Unseen, in the background, Fate was quietly slipping the lead into the boxing-glove." -- P.G. Wodehouse (via Bertie Wooster)

    by BenGoshi on Wed Jun 17, 2009 at 05:38:30 PM PDT

  •  If I were Obama or a legislator, I'd be worried (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    poxonyou

    There isn't much to be optimistic about in those figures.

    I would suspect that this early in a Presidential term, most Presidents and the legislative branch have a fair amount of optimism and goodwill, but the economy is running on fumes, health care reform seems stalled and I sincerely doubt if they have the courage to change anything.

    People's expectations are high, and we cannot go on without REAL change, but they don't have a clue.

    "Rationally, single payer is the best system","our system is the worst, most expensive and least effective." - Ex-President Bill Clinton

    by Andiamo on Wed Jun 17, 2009 at 05:40:26 PM PDT

  •  If I had been asked this past week (0+ / 0-)

    if I approved of the job Obama is doing as president, I would have said no.

    I am not ready to throw in the towel on him, but this certainly is not what I voted for.

    I did not vote for comparing gay marriage to incest and defending DOMA;

    I did not vote for no transparency in White House visitors logs;

    I did not vote for arguments that some detainees should be able to be held indefinitely without trial;

    I did not vote for memos supporting some of Bush's domestic spying policies;

    I did not vote for gay translators and other gay military personnel to keep getting fired;

    I did not vote for so much caving to republicans on things like the budget and the stimulus and even the healthcare plan.

    I do recognize fully that the alternatives to Obama were much much worse. But that does not mean I approve of the job he is doing right now as president.

    Hopefully he will prove my current skepticism wrong.

    •  He wants to repeal DOMA (0+ / 0-)

      Sorry, I know that people are upset about the DOJ brief but you are mixing two things up.  The DOJ have the enforce the law as reprehensible as DOMA is.  Obama can't micromanage DOJ decisions.  Obama has reiterated his support for ending DOMA.  Congress has to pick that up!

      How about some real change?

      by noofsh on Thu Jun 18, 2009 at 05:38:46 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  what difference does it make if the GOP (0+ / 0-)

    is at it's low, seems to me most here on Dailykos thinks Obama is worst then the GOP.

  •  "Obama Honeymoon Over"??? (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Andiamo

    Reading that headline, I was expecting the President to be have 55% favorability. The Honeymoon was over weeks ago. Bipartisanship is over. The people who voted for him are past the first 100 days crap. Now they want strong commitments.

    60% view Barack Obama favorably, which is down four points from April

    A four point drop? I'll take it.

    Everything the Man of Steele touches turns to Kryptonite.

    by PorridgeGun on Wed Jun 17, 2009 at 06:01:03 PM PDT

    •  based on approval at 56 (0+ / 0-)

      but you are absolutely right... I'd take it, as well.

      "Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies." - Groucho Marx

      by Greg Dworkin on Wed Jun 17, 2009 at 06:04:17 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Ah shit, I missed that. (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        BarackStarObama

        But the president’s overall approval rating is at 56 percent, which is down five percentage points from April.

        That concerns me a little, seeing as job approval is a better indicator. I now agree with the headline.

        Saying that, Obama was/is due for another prime time presser. No doubt if he'd held one in the past two weeks he'd be higher than 60% favorability/56% job approval. He's likely gonna hold one fairly shortly, considering healthcare is his focus.

        Also, there's no change in the CBS poll from last month, so...

        Everything the Man of Steele touches turns to Kryptonite.

        by PorridgeGun on Wed Jun 17, 2009 at 06:39:41 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  How does 56% approval mean the honeymoon ... (0+ / 0-)

    ... is OVER??

    The ACTUAL economists like Krugman and Orzag need to do a MUCH better job why you run deficits during a severe recession to keep the bottom from falling out. Instead, we get punditry from Dick Morris, Newt Gingrich and Judd Gregg!

    BTW, the NBC story claims that Obama has a problem because of GM & Chrysler bail-outs DESPITE the fact that those were authorize by Bush/Paulson.

    This is absolute crap. This is the MSM trying to create their own storyline. They cannot stand Obama staying popular with the country.

    •  Obama is doing fine (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      jim bow

      but there is unease behind the numbers.

      "Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies." - Groucho Marx

      by Greg Dworkin on Wed Jun 17, 2009 at 07:08:52 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Exactly (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        mk3872

        While the public appreciates all the legislative accomplishments Obama has achieved, they expect enormously favorable results from these policies -- particularly the economic ones.  And the economic policies haven't produced economic rainbows.  Unfortunately, no economic policy will produce economic rainbows.  While we're signficantly less miserable than we were when Barack Obama took office (no more panic that the U.S. economy will collapse, no more feeling like we're held hostage to AIG, and we're not losing 700,00+ jobs/month), we're nowhere near a monthly net job gain -- let alone a 300,000-400,000 monthly job gain that you expect from an economic recovery.  That's what the American people expect in the near future, and that's simply not possible.

    •  By and large, it's a bullshit story line (0+ / 0-)

      There's some loss of popularity only because of frustration with the economy.  I suppose it's inevitable that the sitting President will eventually get the blame even through the problem was created by Bush.  But as the journalist correctly points out, Obama's loss does NOT translate into a GOP gain.  That makes sense given that the GOP have done nothing positive.

      How about some real change?

      by noofsh on Thu Jun 18, 2009 at 05:42:08 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Polls assume much... (0+ / 0-)

    ...but there is much they don't say. On just one point, the bail-out of GM and Chrysler, I suspect much of the public fails to understand that the senior executives and stockholders of both GM and Chrysler were largely wiped out.

    I know, however, because my wife and I inherited GM stock back in the '90's and sold it at around $50/share, because I didn't think the management know what it was doing. We took more than normal interest in it because her grandfather was a regional fleet sales manager for the Northeast for several decades which caused the family to regard GM as sacred. When I sold the stock there was much gnashing of teeth—I was insulting the family heritage and similar sentiments—but now I look like some great seer. The truth is I was neither. GM was and is history and needed major surgery to survive. The only people who have been "bailed-out" are the surviving employees and some surviving fraction of GM's outside vendors. And those folks are the meat and potatoes of America. Only time will tell if the bail-outs work.

    The alternative, of course, would have been unassisted bankruptcy. And without the government loans, it almost surely would have been Chapter 7, complete liquidation, with GM going the way of Pierce-Arrow, Locomobile, Studebaker, Packard that the many other names from history.

    •  Chapter 7 would have meant millions out of work (0+ / 0-)

      How exactly does that help?  Obama made the right decision on that one.  He wasn't overly generous but he didn't turn his back on them completely.  That was the right balance.

      How about some real change?

      by noofsh on Thu Jun 18, 2009 at 05:58:03 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Obama is blessed with an incompetent GOP, (0+ / 0-)

    but he also needs a little bit of luck.

    No economic improvement -- and, by that, I mean one that reaches beyond the already wealthy -- and it won't much matter what his positions are on anything.

    Free speech? Yeah, I've heard of that. Have you?

    by dinotrac on Wed Jun 17, 2009 at 07:52:10 PM PDT

  •  Where is the front page story (0+ / 0-)

    about the CBS/NYT poll that shows no drop for the President?  Oh that's right, that doesn't fit in with the "Bash the Prez" week that's going on here.  

    •  don't be daft (0+ / 0-)

      it will be up later this am, prominent viewing, and the two together will show decent ratings and no benefit to the GOP.

      if you can't deal with facts, and every negative fact (his numbers did drop a tad, there is nervousness but not abandonment with indies) is seen by you as 'bashing' someone, you're going to waste a lot of ammo on friendly fire.

      When pollster.com adds these polls to the aggregate look (which includes the good numbers from CBS and Gallup), we will take a look.

      "Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies." - Groucho Marx

      by Greg Dworkin on Thu Jun 18, 2009 at 06:18:24 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  With the questions they asked, (0+ / 0-)

    Then we're in pretty good shape.  You elect a president despite not liking every single thing about him, unless you're kind of nuts.  I read this and think "OK, so all I learned is that, except on GITMO, he's basically god a high approval rating, the GOP approval rating is south of dead, and there's some variance on individual issues.  I read the headline and went "uh oh" but read the individual numbers and went "yeah, and?  Tell me something I don't know."

    To a certain extent, everyone knew that there would be some people who would have expected the economy to be fixed by March 1st.  That wasn't going to happen.  It's simply much easier to campaign than to govern, and there's people out there who haven't learned that yet - apparently they're learning it now.

    "What Washington needs is adult supervision" - Barack Obama

    by auron renouille on Wed Jun 17, 2009 at 09:12:53 PM PDT

  •  Of course the honeymoon is over (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    cherish0708

    5 months in, and the left is already filing for divorce. Maddow, Olbermann, Maher, all those self righteous, they hardly had any honeymoon with him at all. Classic Democrats self destruction. They didn't even give him a whole 5 months. Now it's all going to be much more difficult.

    "I'm the president of The United States" - Barack Obama.

    by blackwaterdog on Wed Jun 17, 2009 at 10:51:45 PM PDT

  •  The Honeymoon isn't over. (0+ / 0-)

    Obama has an incredibly high approval rating in any of these polls based on historical standards.  Deficits are something we are going to have to live with until the economy recovers.  Obama has to continue to explain that to people as he did in the CNBC interview.  

    People expect Obama to deliver on health care.  His first year grade will be based on how well the economy is doing and health care reform.

    Alternative rock with something to say: http://www.myspace.com/globalshakedown

    by khyber900 on Wed Jun 17, 2009 at 11:13:55 PM PDT

  •  Obama's lost is not the GOP's gain (0+ / 0-)

    Exactly what I predicted.  All that happened is that some people got disgusted with politics in general.  I can hardly blame them with the tough economy, a Congress that seems hell bent on preserving the status quo and a President that has been reluctant to take on some tough issues (such as the crimes of Bushco admin).  The flip side of the coin is that the GOP have done nothing to help.  They are more of a negative influence than ever.  

    How about some real change?

    by noofsh on Thu Jun 18, 2009 at 05:36:00 AM PDT

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