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Well, the Dems and the GOPers have reached their predictable impasse. But, Nobody knows about single payer, and thats the way they want it. Single Payer works, its the solution many other countries ended up at after similar debates and it works.

The path we are following here, and this impasse, has occurred before, in probably at least 20 or 30 other countries. The US is one of the last holdouts to NOT have a universal plan THAT CAN DO COST CONTROL. Thats WHY big Pharma, in particular, has "drawn a line in the sand" and is funneling so much money into STOPPING REAL CHANGE in the US. PR firms, paid bloggers, swift boating, you name it!

THIS INACTION IS KILLING 20,000 to 100,000 Americans a year because they can't afford care that would be free in other countries!

A study came out yesterday showing that the US is now 49th in infant mortality! We are declining in measures of health faster than any other nation ever has. We are in a CRISIS. We have to act. They are fiddling while Rome burns. SHAME ON THEM!

But there are WORKING WAYS TO GET TO AFFORDABLE HEALTH CARE FOR ALL.. Single Payer is one. Its barely been discussed, perhaps because it works. Its probably the least drastic because it preserves private ownership of hospitals, medical testing facilities, and doctor groups. But it still saves a lot of money.

We know it works. It cuts costs. The illness cartel and especially insurers and drug manufacturers hate it but it works.

Isn't the logical thing now to GO FOR THE REAL SOLUTION, go for broke to get the moderate position, at least, the basic Single Payer out there and examined? Costing of Single Payer will reveal the incredible truth that IT SAVES TRILLIONS OF DOLLARS OVER PUBLIC OPTION..  By its sheer simplicity, we save a lot.

Or should we go for the left wing position, a national health service that brings all medical facilities into a national health service and saves serious money so that the costs to the plan ARE CUT EVEN MORE and people don't go without health care any more,
(a NHS option seems to be the appropriate left side of the Overton window, not 'public option' which is a center- center-right position.)

The NHS )i.e. "socialized medicine") has plusses which should now be more obvious than ever, the NHS approach avoids the kind of problems that occur when health insurers and big hospital chains buy up all the hospitals in an area and drive up prices.

That's what happened in Massachusetts

Or, should we give up, and accept inaction, or a non-plan that does not save sick people any money and which leaves one fifth of all Americans in an even worse situation because not only can they not get insurance because they may have a health condition, they are now called criminals for not being able to afford it. And if they are forced to buy insurance, they wont have the money for drugs they need and their health will DECLINE.

So, this is a poll. What should we do next?

I think the real reason that the Dems aren't putting forward a "public option" is because they couldn't make the numbers work and they don't want to be caught in their lies about public option. They lied about Adverse Selection. They underestimated the costs of public option, with its inability to do strong cost control, and luckily, we called them on it. Now they CAN'T set it up to fail. BUT NOW WE HAVE TO PUSH FOR THE WORKING SOLUTIONS - the ones we KNOW work.. The ones that have been proven in other countries to work. We tried the "uniquely American solution" and the numbers didn't add up. LIKE THEY DON'T ADD UP NOW FOR MILLIONS OF US.

Last Monday, President Clinton said the below to a group of "very lucky bloggers" who met with him.

"Rationally, single payer is the best system","Our system is the WORST, most expensive and least effective."

Isn't that the clue we need to know how to actually get out of this mess? Lets bring some rationality to this debate (!) and SINCE WE REALLY NEED REAL CHANGE, bring our case to the people, ESPECIALLY THE RANK AND FILE REPUBLICANS WE KNOW!

Remember, in Canada, both left and right, both parties there - LOVE their national health care plan.

We have only ONE chance, lets USE IT. NOW. GO FOR THE REAL SOLUTIONS THAT HAVE BEEN SHOWN TO WORK ELSEWHERE.. Not Obama and Cooper's untested "experimental procedure".

There's a reason there is a de-facto mainstream media blackout on discussing single payer and NHS style plans - Its because they WORK!

Now is the time for all you public option advocates to show your stuff, and switch to single payer!

Use that boundless energy to GET THE USA HEALTH CARE FOR ALL OF US.

IF you are a member of a group whose national leadership won't endorse single payer, SWITCH YOUR ALLEGIANCE TO A GROUP THAT WILL.


Originally posted to Andiamo on Fri Jun 19, 2009 at 07:24 AM PDT.


What should we do next, with the goal of affordable health care for all Americans, with no barriers to entry.

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| 35 votes | Vote | Results

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Comment Preferences

  •  Tip Jar (4+ / 0-)

    "Rationally, single payer is the best system","our system is the worst, most expensive and least effective." - Ex-President Bill Clinton

    by Andiamo on Fri Jun 19, 2009 at 07:24:56 AM PDT

  •  Why do you call co ops the (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    Obama/Cooper plan? When did Obama sign off on it?

    •  I should finish my first coffee before posting (0+ / 0-)

      Conrad<>Cooper, but still: when has Obama endorsed any specific version of any bill under consideration in the House or Senate?

      •  Jim Cooper wrote his original plan (0+ / 0-)

        back in late 2007 or early 2008. Its almost identical to the "alternative plan" or "Clinton-lite" plan written by Cooper and floated by the business/healthcare industry in 1993 to kill the Clinton care proposal - which had mandates to prevent the risk pool from becoming sicker, and subsidies for a great many more Americans.

        The 1993 Clinton plan has its flaws, but it would have worked. I think the Obama plan was designed to fail because it cant do cost control, and it lies about the risk pool, which is going to be far sicker than private insurance. It covers that up by saying that it could be self supporting with more people, but the reality is that healthy people wont buy a plan they can't afford, while sick people will try to. Sick people lose money, the more sick people you have, the more money you lose.

        Without addressing these issues, its doomed. They lied to cover that up, but they can't allow it to actually happen because the truth would come out very quickly. (MANY people who have not had access to affordable health care in decades will have lots of issues they need treated!)

        Thats why the longer we wait, the more drastic the solutions we will eventually need to make it affordable.

        "Rationally, single payer is the best system","our system is the worst, most expensive and least effective." - Ex-President Bill Clinton

        by Andiamo on Fri Jun 19, 2009 at 08:03:53 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  So your view is that Obama has (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:

          zero intention to do anything about health care, and in fact is actively sabotaging it. Ok.

          •  It's worse than that. (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:

            Far worse.

            The interesting thing is that Andiamo seems both to be claiming that only single payer can possibly work, but also that we should also do ClintonCare all over again, which not only wasn't single payer, but had no public option - it was mandated participation in the private insurance market, something like Switzerland's system, only without the government price-setting that makes Switzerland's system tolerable, even if very expensive by European standards.

            They tortured people to get false confessions to fraudulently justify our invading Iraq.

            by sullivanst on Fri Jun 19, 2009 at 08:33:10 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  So, you insist that even if the cost of healthcar (0+ / 0-)

              increases, indefinitely, eventually taking say 1/3 of our GNP, that

              there would never be any danger that we would seek drastic solutions- when that is completely unavoidable?

              "Rationally, single payer is the best system","our system is the worst, most expensive and least effective." - Ex-President Bill Clinton

              by Andiamo on Fri Jun 19, 2009 at 12:57:02 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  I have absolutely no fear we will ever be (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:

                actively murdering the sick as a policy choice.

                You're a sick and twisted individual if you believe that we would. I'm seriously concerned about you that even after plenty of pause for reflection, you're still willing to stand by that absurdity.

                They tortured people to get false confessions to fraudulently justify our invading Iraq.

                by sullivanst on Fri Jun 19, 2009 at 01:09:33 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

        •  There are some key differences (0+ / 0-)

          between Obama and Cooper's "ClintonLite".

          The most glaringly obvious one is the public option. Cooper didn't have one, because ClintonCare didn't have one.

          ClintonLite had no employer mandate, Obama's plan had one.

          ClintonLite repealed Medicaid entirely. Obama's plan expands it.

          They tortured people to get false confessions to fraudulently justify our invading Iraq.

          by sullivanst on Fri Jun 19, 2009 at 08:27:37 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

  •  Amen. Unfortunately... (0+ / 0-)

    It's beginning to feel a lot like the lead-up to the Iraqi war: we're powerless to stop what is inevitable. I know that there be quitter-talk, and a self-fulfilling prophecy, but I've reached the point where I don't see anything meaningful coming out of this healthcare "reform". My faith in the political class, regardless of ideological color, is shot.

    Fuck them all. Well, except for Bernie. :-) And yes, I am still writing letter and making calls, but I have no illusion it will do any good.


    •  It will do good.. (0+ / 0-)

      because the people are not going to let this sorry excuse of a Congress kill universal healthcare again.

      Perhaps that was Obama's purpose in talking up the potential (even though he knoew that public option as it was being described would not work) ?

      maybe he fooled the right and the right wing Dems into supporting him, but actually plans to go to the people and ask for single payer when the process in the House almost ludicrously fails to work!?

      who knows.. time will tell..

      "Rationally, single payer is the best system","our system is the worst, most expensive and least effective." - Ex-President Bill Clinton

      by Andiamo on Fri Jun 19, 2009 at 01:06:31 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

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