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I've had it. I'm done. I have reached my limit on naivete, negativism, kneejerkism, and face-spiting-self-nasal-amputation.

The Netroots community is facing a do-or-die moment. We helped elect--some say were instrumental in electing--a Democratic supermajority in  Congress, and Democratic control of the White House. There is nothing the Netroots should not be able to accomplish.

If it wants to.

But too many of got so used to being the opposition during the Bush era that we've forgotten how to do anything but oppose. And too many of us don't understand anything about how to get legislation passed. Put those two things together and you have the ingredients for an epic FAIL.

People need to get a grip.  People need to get some perspective.  Most of all, people need to understand how to get something done.

This is how it's going down.  Unless we fuck it up.

  1.  The House is going to pass a reasonably strong bill with a solid public option.
  1.  The Senate is going to pass a weak bill that Grassley and friends won't filibuster. The reason we need them to not filibuster is not because of President Obama's commitment to bipartisanship. It's because it only takes one Senator from our side to not stick on cloture and we lose everything. And if Kennedy can't be wheeled in, it might not take any.
  1.  It goes to the conference committee.
  1.  The conference committee will produce a bill that is much closer to the House bill than the Senate bill. President Obama will personally parachute in to make it happen, if necessary.
  1.  House passes conference bill by huge majority. All Republicans vote No.
  1.  Senate passes reconciliation bill 51-50, if necessary. Cloture no longer an issue.

Look.  All these supposedly needless capitulations are being made where? In the Senate Finance Committee bill that will go on to be the Senate bill. The Senate bill is NOT the final bill. But it is the bill that has to clear cloture.

All this capitulation that everyone is squawking about is just part of the process. The Senate Finance Committee bill's main purpose is to give Grassley and others cover to not vote against cloture. It represents 11-dimensional chess.  Not capitulation.

Remember this man?

 title=

Like the man said.

Now stop complaining, Get The Fuck Out There to your local Congresscritter's Townhall, and Represent.

Originally posted to Simian on Thu Aug 13, 2009 at 05:06 PM PDT.

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Comment Preferences

    •  You mean there are others... (0+ / 0-)

      in the democratic party aside from liberals and progressives?!  Well if they don't think like us we need to throw them out because they hold the wrong ideas.  

      Clings to Music and Yankee baseball

      by Mro on Thu Aug 13, 2009 at 06:02:45 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  There are 3 Branches of government (6+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      askew, jillles, hhex65, murrayewv, Simian, kingyouth

      and It seems as if people have forgotten that after the election.  We need to press hard, harder than we've ever pressed before on the congress and the president.  WE need to stop being nice and sweet to our relatives, we can be direct and but not abusive w/the truth. I almost think we need to use scare tactics of our own.  The dems got medicare and the dems should be able to take it away.  I'm tired of selfish people and I think a medicare for all or none approach would be nice...

      But the most important thing is WE need to organize we need to call on the MSM we need to write letters and we can't sit on the sidelines.  If we want this we have to work for it.  

      We can't let the Dems forget that they have the numbers (or voters) on their side.

      GOP = Godless opposition party We Hassle to make America a Vassal (state)

      by Shhs on Thu Aug 13, 2009 at 06:38:24 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  and you NEED to go to the damn meetings (0+ / 0-)

        and complain, if they (progressives) think the public option or single payer is SO IMPORTANT, why are they not in the meetings if they think it is slipping away?

        SHUT IT OR DO SOMETHING, whining does NOTHING.

    •  Vanity Fair ... (0+ / 0-)
      The reason we need them to not filibuster is not because of President Obama's commitment to bipartisanship.

      Ask me about my daughter's future - Ko

      by koNko on Fri Aug 14, 2009 at 07:06:31 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Agreed. But still frustrated. (5+ / 0-)

    The Republican Party is the most dangerous Militia Group, inciting violence among its followers.

    by cyeko on Thu Aug 13, 2009 at 05:07:48 PM PDT

  •  the way I see it the opposition includes (8+ / 0-)

    bluedog democrats.

    CNN aka CRANK Network Non-news

    by KnotIookin on Thu Aug 13, 2009 at 05:09:51 PM PDT

  •  IT IS CALLED GRASSROOTS POLITICS! (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    esquimaux, ms badger

    That is what we have to do to be heard! Digg that!

    ...We have many issues that bind us together than separates us!

    by ThisIsMyTime on Thu Aug 13, 2009 at 05:10:27 PM PDT

  •  Iow (14+ / 0-)

    quiver in fear before your betters.

    You, Kossaks are dumb shits and must bow before the God Obaa and his Arch Angel rahm.

    Only THEY know the secrets of 11-dimensional chess. The rest of you are dirt beneath their shoes.

    .

    Hey.

    Bite me.

  •  Teh dems do their best to implode (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    hhex65, Simian, Dixie Liberal

    The only thing in our way is breaking apart..  The rest is noise.  Keep up the good fight.  I've got your back!.

  •  Yeah, where is he? (4+ / 0-)

    Because they've completely boned the messaging on health care reform.

    Or are we not allowed to say that?

    I'll just contribute my time and money and keep quiet then.

    BTW fuck 11-dimensional chess.

  •  Love that picture of Obama (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Simian, BlueStreak

    Say hello to my desktop wallpaper rotation.

  •  Can you also tell me how prosecuting torture (4+ / 0-)

    is going down? That's one I'm really having trouble mapping on my ArcView.

    •  Wish I could. (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      otto, karma bum

      As you might see from my other diaries, torture is usually my issue.  But I just have no frakkin' clue what's going to happen any more on that front.

      War crimes will be prosecuted. War criminals will be punished. And it will be no defense to say, "I was just following orders." -- George W. Bush, May 17, 2003

      by Simian on Thu Aug 13, 2009 at 05:20:19 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Well you see I think I said here (0+ / 0-)

      a few months ago that you can prosecute people for torture at anytime.  However, it would be wise to wait 10 years for the real crazies in our country to die.  Do you really want a dead judge or attorney, a bomb at the court house?

      More than 100 freakin countries can prosecute as well, but as we are finding out there are a lot of world leaders complicit in Bush's shit.

      GOP = Godless opposition party We Hassle to make America a Vassal (state)

      by Shhs on Thu Aug 13, 2009 at 06:49:52 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Question. (0+ / 0-)

    Can you have reconsiliation after October 15th? Grassley etc. are looking to delay this thing till thanksgiving. If White House goes along with them then can they still do reconciliation?

    •  As I understand it, and Lord knows, I (0+ / 0-)

      probably don't, reconciliation can't happen until after Oct. 15.  Oct. 15 is the deadline for Senate committees to do what is described in the budget resolution:

      SEC. 201. RECONCILIATION IN THE SENATE.
      (a) COMMITTEE ON FINANCE.—The Senate Committee on Finance
      shall report changes in laws within its jurisdiction to reduce
      the deficit by $1,000,000,000 for the period of fiscal years 2009
      through 2014.
      (b) COMMITTEE ON HEALTH, EDUCATION, LABOR, AND PENSIONS.—
      The Senate Committee on Health, Education, Labor, and
      Pensions shall report changes in laws within its jurisdiction to reduce
      the deficit by $1,000,000,000 for the period of fiscal years 2009
      through 2014.
      (c) SUBMISSIONS.—In the Senate, not later than October 15,
      2009, the Senate committees named in subsections (a) and (b) shall
      submit their recommendations to the Senate Committee on the
      Budget. Upon receiving all such recommendations, the Senate Committee
      on the Budget shall report to the Senate a reconciliation bill
      carrying out all such recommendations without any substantive revision.

      Once those rec's are in, the Senate is free to proceed to use reconciliation for anything reconciliation can be used for.  

      Also as I understand it, the things there is most doubt as to whether reconciliation can be used are (1) the insurance reform measures, such as ending preexisting condition exclusions, (2) setting up the "exchange" mechanisms, and (3) the public option.  But there's undoubtedly arguments on all sides of those questions, and I have no idea what's right.

  •  Whatever. (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    esquimaux, m00finsan, DawnoftheRedSun

    Every single time anyone has a complaint people post that stupid picture or talk about 72 dimension upside down backwards around the corner chess.

    "ENOUGH!" - President Barack Hussein Obama

    by indiemcemopants on Thu Aug 13, 2009 at 05:20:13 PM PDT

    •  Hey, personally I love complaints. (0+ / 0-)

      Just not the ones that come from the same place that the doctor hits with that little hammer.

      War crimes will be prosecuted. War criminals will be punished. And it will be no defense to say, "I was just following orders." -- George W. Bush, May 17, 2003

      by Simian on Thu Aug 13, 2009 at 05:22:22 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Tipped and rec'd. :-) (10+ / 0-)

    They tortured people to get false confessions to fraudulently justify our invading Iraq.

    by Kaili Joy Gray on Thu Aug 13, 2009 at 05:27:07 PM PDT

  •  Very Reassuring, Except for This Part... (5+ / 0-)

    Unless we fuck it up.

    Harry Reid and Co. have given me reason to fear these words.

    "Where would we be without the agitators of the world attaching the electrodes of knowledge to the nipples of ignorance?" - Dick Solomon, 3rd Rock from the Sun

    by Kevinole on Thu Aug 13, 2009 at 05:28:01 PM PDT

    •  By "we," (0+ / 0-)

      I meant "us"--the Netroots.  Kossaks, in particular.  We need to be ON this, not crying about quitting.

      War crimes will be prosecuted. War criminals will be punished. And it will be no defense to say, "I was just following orders." -- George W. Bush, May 17, 2003

      by Simian on Thu Aug 13, 2009 at 05:29:59 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  51 or 60 -- harder than it looks (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Simian, malharden, mnguy66

    Senate passes reconciliation bill 51-50, if necessary. Cloture no longer an issue.

    Reconciliation bills still have to be able to defeat points of order raised under the Byrd rule. You need 60 votes to defeat a point of order.

    A senator may raise a point of order to challenge provisions of the bill that are extraneous to the budget.

    The house bill, as currently drafted, would be subject to points of attack on the non-budget provisions, ie the exchanges and public option, as well as the expected increase in budget deficits (as currently scored by CBO) after the term of the reconciliation bill.

  •  I think your summary (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Simian, KroneckerD, CS in AZ

    of what's to come is a pretty good prognostication...at least as good as any I've heard.

    I remember in the conference call Obama had with bloggers - he basically outlined that as the plan. The muscle will come in conference committee.

    Almost everything you do will seem insignificant, but it is important that you do it. - Mahatma Gandhi

    by NLinStPaul on Thu Aug 13, 2009 at 05:29:58 PM PDT

  •  Except that the whole "it will be fixed in conf (5+ / 0-)

    meme was EXACTLY what progressives were told about the stimulus debate where the House had a much stronger and more robust stimulus bill and the senate had a watered down one.  And guess what happened.  The House version was thrown down the toilet and the conference reported out the watered down senate version.  So I think everyone has a real good reason to be very, very sketptical of this whole "dont worry we'll fix it in conference" bs.  We have been fooled once on that, and there is no way no how we should be fooled again by it.

  •  Reconciliation (0+ / 0-)

    My understanding of reconciliation is that it is beyond the Democrats' control of what finally gets approved in the final bill.

    In other words, you really don't want to use reconciliation.

    •  Not sure what you mean. (0+ / 0-)

      "Beyond the Democrats' control"?  It'll be a Democratic conference committee.

      War crimes will be prosecuted. War criminals will be punished. And it will be no defense to say, "I was just following orders." -- George W. Bush, May 17, 2003

      by Simian on Thu Aug 13, 2009 at 05:39:59 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  He means the "decider" will be one Alan Frumin. (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Simian

        Mr. Frumin happens to be the Parliamentarian of the Senate, and he is the god who will decide what is and what is not a fit subject for reconciliation in the health care bill.  The Parliamentarian is appointed by the majority leader, but it would be a big mistake to assume he operates under the control of the majority leader.  In fact, Mr. Frumin was appointed Parliamentarian by then majority leader  Trent Lott in 2001, and allowed to continue in his position after the Dems took over the Senate in 2006.

        In theory, a ruling of the Parliamentarian can be overruled, by the vote of 60 Senators, but that hardly ever happens.  And, of course, if the Dems can't put together 60 votes for cloture, they are most unlikely to be able to overrule a Parliamentarian's ruling.

        Reportedly, both Rep and Dem senators have been consulting with Mr. Frumin in recent days regarding what might be allowable under reconciliation.  Since his appointment in 2001, Mr. Frumin has issued rulings that have angered both Dems and Repubs, so he seems to be non-partisan, which is, of course, the idea.

        A recent article in The Hill explained why Healthcare reform’s fate lies in the hands of parliamentarian.  Check it out, and let's all pray to the great god Frumin for the salvation of health care in america.

  •  Thank you. I agree (7+ / 0-)

    You're right that a lot of people don't seem to understand how the process works. And it seems that some see this process as a roller coaster ride and simply enjoy screaming at every twist and turn of the ride as if it's life and death even if they know better. And some just enjoy the feeling of anger.

    I think reacting with extreme emotion to every rumor, leak, fake memo, and compromise made in the senate right now is a waste of energy, and it certainly isn't going to help get a good bill passed. And attacking of Obama as some kind of political fool is just silly.

    However I'm sure your diary won't climb the charts today. It's far too calm and reasonable. :)

    •  Damn, I thought if I mimicked the "F-- you" meme (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      cre8fire, CS in AZ, shenderson, worldlotus

      it'd get more play...

      War crimes will be prosecuted. War criminals will be punished. And it will be no defense to say, "I was just following orders." -- George W. Bush, May 17, 2003

      by Simian on Thu Aug 13, 2009 at 05:35:19 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  I'm not typically a knee-jerker type... (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Simian

      but I am very concerned about this process.  Let's just take a look at the process of the stimulus package.

      The Republicans were opposed to it.  They whined and bitched.  They threatened to vote against it.  The Democrats took out things the Republicans didn't want and added things the Republicans did, until it was watered down sufficiently enough that the Republicans would be willing to vote for it.

      Except they didn't.

      So with health care reform, don't you think that's the same process we're going to see?  Allow the Republicans to ruin the bill, in hopes of bipartisan support, only to have the Democrats have to pass the bill on their own anyway.

      They tortured people to get false confessions to fraudulently justify our invading Iraq.

      by Kaili Joy Gray on Thu Aug 13, 2009 at 05:39:03 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  No, I think that process is happening (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        vcmvo2, NLinStPaul, CS in AZ

        with the Senate Finance Committee bill, for the intentional purpose of avoiding cloture.

        My main problem with your diary was that you're threatening to quit the whole party over what's happening mainly with the Senate Finance committee bill.  It's just a fact of politics that the people in the middle often have the most power, and that's where the Blue Dogs and Republican moderates are right now.  What we're witnessing is that Obama and the pro-healthcare reform forces are having to deal with that reality.  But there's a plan to flank them, and I think it will work, as long as we stay in the fight to push for as much progressive reform as we possible.

        War crimes will be prosecuted. War criminals will be punished. And it will be no defense to say, "I was just following orders." -- George W. Bush, May 17, 2003

        by Simian on Thu Aug 13, 2009 at 05:44:54 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  I wouldn't be a real Democrat... (0+ / 0-)

          if I didn't threaten to leave every now and then.

          Am I really quitting?  Probably not.  Because as pissed as I am right now, come the next election (and the next and the next), there will be some awful Republican who so offends every fiber of my being that I will vote for the Democrat out of spite if nothing else.

          Right now, though, I'm pissed.  Just pissed.  So I'm venting, which makes me feel a little bit better, I guess, even if it is juvenile and unproductive.

          However, I do think it's time for a split in the Democratic party.  The Blue Dogs really need to be their own little club and stop getting in the way.  I think maybe our big tent is just a little too big.

          They tortured people to get false confessions to fraudulently justify our invading Iraq.

          by Kaili Joy Gray on Thu Aug 13, 2009 at 05:53:17 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  The split (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            vcmvo2, Simian, CS in AZ

            is exactly how the Repugs got to the "small tent" they are now as a totally marginalized party.

            I hate the Blue Dogs as much as anyone. But in my mind, we have to do two things:

            1. Demonstrate that democrats are competent at running government, and
            1. Get those voters in the mountain west and south to have enough confidence in Democrats to vote for REAL ones.

            Almost everything you do will seem insignificant, but it is important that you do it. - Mahatma Gandhi

            by NLinStPaul on Thu Aug 13, 2009 at 06:00:34 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          •  I'm starting to get that now (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            NLinStPaul, Angry Mouse, CS in AZ

            but look how many adherents your rant drew. One (well-written) rant leads to 500+ nattering nabobs of negativity right here in the heart of the Netroots....We gotta stay strong on this, bro.

            War crimes will be prosecuted. War criminals will be punished. And it will be no defense to say, "I was just following orders." -- George W. Bush, May 17, 2003

            by Simian on Thu Aug 13, 2009 at 06:02:23 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Well, you can't always control the responses. (0+ / 0-)

              Sometimes I vent and no one gives a shit.  Sometimes it strikes a chord.  As a general rule, people shouldn't take my rants too literally.  I'm an Angry Mouse; I'm given to fits of outraged hyperbole from time to time.

              They tortured people to get false confessions to fraudulently justify our invading Iraq.

              by Kaili Joy Gray on Thu Aug 13, 2009 at 06:05:32 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

          •  Well how about you start really venting where (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Simian

            it really matters.

            Why don't you really shake things up. I'm sure we all keep so many corporate secrets that it is pathetic.  

            GOP = Godless opposition party We Hassle to make America a Vassal (state)

            by Shhs on Thu Aug 13, 2009 at 06:53:56 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

      •  Ummmm.... (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        askew, Simian, CS in AZ

        about that stimulus package...

        There were some changes, but Obama pretty much got exactly what he wanted. And it wasn't "ruined." Seems to be working pretty well.

        In the end, the Repugs came off as obstructionist and not one of them will be able to take any credit for its success.

        Worked out pretty well if you ask me.

        Almost everything you do will seem insignificant, but it is important that you do it. - Mahatma Gandhi

        by NLinStPaul on Thu Aug 13, 2009 at 05:57:03 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  My thoughts exactly. (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          vcmvo2, NLinStPaul

          I think the republicans are on the wrong side of history on health care reform and they are going to end up more isolated than ever.

          The tactics they are using to try to defeat reform are disgusting and in the end it's going to come back and bite them in the ass.

      •  No, Mouse, I honestly don't see it that way (5+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        askew, vcmvo2, Simian, NLinStPaul, Reepicheep

        First of all, the economic recovery bill was passed, and I don't think it was "ruined" just because it wasn't exactly what you or me or President Obama would have liked or wanted. And the news of late indicates that the economy is starting to recover and things are starting to stabilize, so it was not a huge failure.

        Secondly, I do not think anyone is really expecting or even hoping for "bipartisan support" of the health care bill. Least of all President Obama. But he does have to get the senate to pass a bill as a place to start, or, as the diarist said, we lose everything. So "working with them" at this point is necessary. And Obama's "take the high road" tone with them is good politics, IMO. Even though hard core progressives hate it, it plays well with rational independents and some republican voters, who Obama does need to avoid alienating completely.

        And finally, I never expected to get a perfect or even great health care reform bill this year. Frankly, getting any kind of reform actually passed will be an great achievement, which should be clear given the tone and tenor of the opposition to even relatively minor reforms.

        We are going to get a public option, we are going to get restrictions on insurance companies refusing people for preexisting conditions and dropping people when they get sick. We are going to have some limits on rate increases and caps on what they will pay. These will be good steps in the right direction, and I am simply not gong to throw myself off a bridge because it's not everything I would have wished for.

        •  You're right. It wasn't ruined. (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          CS in AZ

          That's a bit of hyperbole on my part.  However, given that he had to pass it with virtually no Republican support, shouldn't it have been exactly what he wanted?  If the Republicans aren't going to cooperate, why include them in the process?  And for god's sake, why make "compromises" with them, when they're not willing to compromise on anything?

          As for assurance that we will get a public option...I hope so.  But I'm concerned that what we will end up with as a public option will be anything but.  I fear that you will have to meet so many absurd conditions to qualify for public option that people won't simply be able to opt out of their private insurance and go with a public plan simply because they want to.

          And I'm not throwing myself off a bridge either.  Not at all.  I'm just venting and pissed off and frustrated, which, as a Democrat, is sort of a prerequisite, no?

          They tortured people to get false confessions to fraudulently justify our invading Iraq.

          by Kaili Joy Gray on Thu Aug 13, 2009 at 06:01:54 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  I'm not bothered by your anger (4+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            askew, Simian, NLinStPaul, Angry Mouse

            I don't understand it or relate to it personally but if that's where you're at then rant away. I read your diary and decided to exit without comment because I knew it would be very popular today but ranting and bitching is just not something that appeals to me. But for those who enjoy it or get something out of it, I say let them rant and rave. Whatever.

            As for why it is necessary to include republicans in the process even though in the end they don't get on board... in my opinion it is primarily electoral politics. Even though Obama doesn't necessarily need the republicans in congress (although he does need the blue dogs, and sometimes it's hard to tell the difference), he needs the voters with him, including conservative-leaning indys and wavering republicans. And acting like a dictator would not serve his long term interests, and therefore it would not serve our long term interests either. Just my opinion of course, but I think Barack Obama is a damn good, very smart politician, who does want to accomplish great things, and he wants eight years to get the ship of state turned a bit and moving in a new direction. I'm still with him and will give him the benefit of the doubt anyway. I don't know why exactly but I do feel reasonably optimistic.

            •  I envy your optimism. (0+ / 0-)

              I understand the idea of electoral politics, but I think that if Obama looks like he's been railroaded by Republicans, that won't help him with independent voters.  Heck, people voted for Bush because they admired his resolve.  I think Obama could afford to be tougher on Republicans, and I think that would actually benefit him.

              They tortured people to get false confessions to fraudulently justify our invading Iraq.

              by Kaili Joy Gray on Thu Aug 13, 2009 at 06:25:04 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

            •  I think Obama is showing us (4+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              askew, kj in missouri, Simian, CS in AZ

              a different way to wield political power. And because its not the "hit them in the face" brand we're used to - it can be frustrating.

              I keep going back to what I think was perhaps the best diary I've ever read on dkos Obama's Soft Power: A Primer on Aikido.

              Folks can blow off the 11 dimensional chess all they want. Obama is showing us how to balance the yin/yang in a way that exudes a totally different kind of power. Macho power has gotten us into the mess we are today. Time for a different way - and I think Obama is showing us how.

              Almost everything you do will seem insignificant, but it is important that you do it. - Mahatma Gandhi

              by NLinStPaul on Thu Aug 13, 2009 at 06:34:13 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  Yep, again I completely agree with you (4+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                askew, kj in missouri, Simian, NLinStPaul

                All through the primaries and general election there were always people complaining about Obama not being tough enough or not hitting the opposition hard enough. I actually thought that once he won, some would begin to respect his way... but I'm not sure anyone has really changed their opinion and it seems that most people who felt that way then still have the same complaints about him now, over what they view as weakness.

                I studied Aikido for a few years when I was younger and I absolutely recognize his political style as the embodiment of the Aikido Way... and I love that about him and always have. I had my doubts in the beginning that it could be applied to politics, but he has shown that it is entirely possible.

                I don't want him to be a hard ass or a cowboy or a macho man. I love his quiet strength and am sometimes in awe of his self-control. I feel sad for those who cannot recognize his strength and power. Especially those on our side, who are supposed to be peace-oriented. He is exactly the kind of leader I wanted and I still feel so lucky he came along at this point in time.

                •  I've said many times (4+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  askew, kj in missouri, Simian, CS in AZ

                  that I don't always agree with his policies - but his process is what is truly transformative.

                  Its interesting because sometimes we see the impact of having an African American as POTUS (not always in a good way - with all the crazy racism that's exploding).

                  What many haven't seen or noticed is that we also have a POTUS who is, perhaps for the first time, allowing the feminine (and I obviously don't mean that in the gender sense) to be incorporated in the process of wielding power. I think that's tripping alot of people up. We're very tied to the masculine way.

                  Almost everything you do will seem insignificant, but it is important that you do it. - Mahatma Gandhi

                  by NLinStPaul on Thu Aug 13, 2009 at 07:04:41 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

  •  The financial bail that pampers Wall Street (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    m00finsan

    and paid those outrageous bonuses, the continued use of Blackwater mercenaries, and lack of accountability for Bush administration crimes, ..

    have told me all I need to know.

    Unseen power brokers play in private for high stakes in the back room and muscle their influence on Obama's policies.

    Insurance Companies will have the "reform" it can profit under and Obama will let it happen.

    Only when we get real campaign finance reform will we regain control of our supposedly democratic government.  Until then..Obama doesn't "got this", it's the corporations that got us by our short hairs.

    If cats could blog.... they wouldn't.

    by crystal eyes on Thu Aug 13, 2009 at 05:35:44 PM PDT

    •  BC we let them (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Simian

      Let's not play lots of us work for corporations and keep their secrets.  Lots of us do some one's bidding.  When was the last time you turned on the T.V. and there was a pirated feed on the T.V.?  

      GOP = Godless opposition party We Hassle to make America a Vassal (state)

      by Shhs on Thu Aug 13, 2009 at 06:56:32 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Even Nate Silver (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Losty

    is having doubts about the Dems in congress today on this sugject.  That certainly makes me nervous.

    Your political compass Economic Left/Right: -6.50 Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -6.67

    by bythesea on Thu Aug 13, 2009 at 05:37:19 PM PDT

    •  I love Nate (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      bythesea

      but he's much better predicting polling trends than he is calling Congressional machinations.

      War crimes will be prosecuted. War criminals will be punished. And it will be no defense to say, "I was just following orders." -- George W. Bush, May 17, 2003

      by Simian on Thu Aug 13, 2009 at 05:51:00 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Maybe so, but he has (0+ / 0-)

        been a source of reassurance on this up until today.  Instead of dismissing him for his specialty you might consider that smell of fear, compromise, and surrender from the congressional Dems is getting bad enough that even an optimist like Nate is starting to wonder.

        Your political compass Economic Left/Right: -6.50 Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -6.67

        by bythesea on Thu Aug 13, 2009 at 05:58:10 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Oh, I smell it too. (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          NLinStPaul, bythesea, Shhs

          Hence, my anti-defeatist rant.

          War crimes will be prosecuted. War criminals will be punished. And it will be no defense to say, "I was just following orders." -- George W. Bush, May 17, 2003

          by Simian on Thu Aug 13, 2009 at 06:03:53 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  I wonder why that is (0+ / 0-)

          Is it because the nuts don't have jobs and are retires, who watch t.v.  Is it because many reps are older and watch t.v.  Is it because they have a perception that the nuts are a wide swath of the American public.  Have we really let made our voices heard?

          GOP = Godless opposition party We Hassle to make America a Vassal (state)

          by Shhs on Thu Aug 13, 2009 at 06:58:20 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

  •  Ballance (8+ / 0-)

    Somewhere between the outrage of "the other diary" and those who think that everything is going to be hunkey dorey and we shouldn't worry about what the Blue Dogs do and say is where I stand.

    Am I "done with the Democrats"?  No.  I'm too much of a realist for that.

    Do I think that some of the Blue Dogs and other corporately owned Democrats need to be rooted out, primaried and have their support cut?  Yes.  Despite what Reid says, in the end, 51 is still 51, and honestly, the many of the Blue Dog positions are more dangerous than the Republicans; they offer false solutions, as opposed to just saying no.

    My take is that we should indeed track those who are betraying the party platform, and ensure that we work to get them primaried.  Cut their funds.  And make sure they know that we are going to do it.

    At the same time, we should be encouraging those who are taking the stands they promised to, who are working towards real, honest health care reform and a public option.

    And absolutely, we need to keep the calls and letters going, we need to represent at town halls, we need to be seen and heard.  But that doesn't mean that we should be silent when certain DINO's are trying to cut the legs out from under a true public option.  Not at all.

    PS:  I am not sure this is the correct site for nasal sex.  While I've never gone looking for such a site, one probably exists.

    Co-op is a cop out. It is not an option, let alone a public one.

    by JRandomPoster on Thu Aug 13, 2009 at 05:39:20 PM PDT

  •  But as people of the internet (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    NLinStPaul, Reepicheep, Snud, johnosahon

    we have to get mad at someone and it can never be us.  

    Clings to Music and Yankee baseball

    by Mro on Thu Aug 13, 2009 at 06:00:14 PM PDT

  •  This "debate" encompasses (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    hhex65, Simian, JRandomPoster, The Creator

    Capitalism vs. humanism
    Corporate profits vs. human suffering
    Wealthy vs. poor
    Have-somes vs. have nothings

    We're trying to take money away from wealthy powerful people. They will use every dirty trick, every lie, every weapon they have, to stop it.  

    "YOPP!" --Horton Hears a Who

    by Reepicheep on Thu Aug 13, 2009 at 06:09:12 PM PDT

    •  Exactly. (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Reepicheep, The Creator

      We need to pour it on for our side now, not start threatening to desert when a tactic doesn't fit our (narrow) idea of good strategy.

      War crimes will be prosecuted. War criminals will be punished. And it will be no defense to say, "I was just following orders." -- George W. Bush, May 17, 2003

      by Simian on Thu Aug 13, 2009 at 06:13:47 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  I rec'd both diaries (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Simian, Shhs, DirkFunk

    because you both make valid points.

  •  I went to an OFA meeting last night... (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Simian, NLinStPaul

    and there were protesters out front urging "single payer".  And the OFA rep made sure to encourage them to express their points of views.

    When a vote was taken, half in the room were for single payer now, but everyone was for single payer some time.  

    Obama's been amazing.  He's the best we've had in my lifetime.  He's the smartest, and one of the most progressive, we've ever seen.  All however-many-of-us-there-are will never agree with any president, no matter how talented and brilliant, on every issue.  Does that mean we start eating our own?  Or f-ing our noses?  

    I think we share more goals than those who are demanding single payer now realize or want to realize.  It's just that some of us think that if we demand all or nothing now, we get nothing.  And this is our best shot to begin breaking through to the goal of health insurance reform, even if it's one step at a time.

  •  You don't get it! (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    heart of a quince

    All this capitulation that everyone is squawking about is just part of the process. The Senate Finance Committee bill's main purpose is to give Grassley and others cover to not vote against cloture. It represents 11-dimensional chess.  Not capitulation.

    All this yelling and hollering at our party, which includes our Democratic President, to get their rears in gear or they'll lose their most precioussss votesesss is just part of the process!

    The big industries have their big seats at the table.  The only seat we have is our loud voices.

    We're just giving our representatives, from President to Congress, cover to do the right thing or face our wrath!

    Chill out!  WE have it covered!

  •  please re-post (0+ / 0-)

    the community needs to see this today, and the diary that inspired it is still active and rec'd

  •  lol (0+ / 0-)

    It represents 11-dimensional chess.  Not capitulation.

    You know, I see it over and over and it still makes me laugh every time I see this ridiculous argument.

    "I think a basic principle of our Constitution is nobody above the law" -Obama

    by heart of a quince on Fri Aug 14, 2009 at 06:07:28 AM PDT

  •  While republicans are filling up the meetings and (0+ / 0-)

    complaining, we democrats are sitting on our asses abusing the democrats on our laptops, it is a shame, if you want to be heard, go to the DAMN MEETING or SHUT IT.

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