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Research 2000 for Daily Kos. 8/10-13. All adults. MoE 2% (No trend lines)

1. Do you think the health care reform plan being considered by President Obama and Congress creates "death panels" which have the authority to subjectively determine whether or not a gravely ill or injured person should receive health care based on their "level of productivity in society"?

Yes      11
No       72
Not sure 17

Despite this being an absurd suggestion, 11% of respondents think Obama is suggesting "death panels", and 17% can't be sure. Interestingly, those are eerily similar numbers to the birther poll, in which 11% thought Obama was not born in the United States and another 12% were not sure. What's the breakdown?

         Yes   No   Not sure
Dem        5   88    7
Rep       26   43   31
Ind        8   76   16

Northeast  6   91    3
South     17   46   37
Midwest    9   81   10
West      10   78   12

On this one, Republicans stand out as answering differently than Dems and Indies. 57% of Republicans answered yes/not sure. The regional disparities are not quite as great as with birthers, though a slight majority (54%) in the South answered yes/not sure.

2. Does the health care reform plan being considered by President Obama and Congress require elderly patients to meet with government officials to discuss "end of life" options including euthanasia?

Yes      19
No       58
Not sure 23

That's a larger "yes" and "unsure" response to the question compared to "death panels" in the first question, suggesting a lack of information, misinformation (or, alternatively, not understanding the poll question.)

         Yes   No   Not sure
Dem        9   74   17
Rep       37   31   32
Ind       17   61   22

Northeast 11   78   11
South     26   31   43
Midwest   17   68   15
West      20   64   16

Check the "no" column. Only 31% of Republicans answered "no" (the correct answer) to this question compared to 61% Independents and 74% Dems, and only 31% in the South answered no. Southerners were 3-4x more likely to answer "not sure" than other regions.

3. Which of the following do you consider to be the most accurate reflection of the health care reform plan being considered by President Obama and Congress? (ROTATED): A government take over the entire health care system OR The government will provide a non-profit health insurance option to compete with private firms.

Compete    47
Take over  26
Not sure   27

    Compete   Take Over   Not sure
Dem       74    8   18
Rep       17   60   23
Ind       44   21   35

Northeast 62   10   28
South     28   45   27
Midwest   53   20   27
West      51   23   26

The idea that Obama is suggesting competition rathen than a take-over is established with Dems and Independents (but not surprisingly, Republicans are inclined to believe it a take-over) and polls a majority response everywhere but the South. As is the usual pattern, Democratic-leaning response to the question is strongest in the Northeast and weakest in the South.

4. Is Medicare a government program or not?

Yes      83
No        9
Not sure  8

         Yes   No   Not sure
Dem       89    7    4
Rep       76   14   10
Ind       83    8    9

Northeast 86    8    6
South     80   10   10
Midwest   84    9    7
West      83    9    8

Straight fact question, no huge regional disparities but a slight R tendency to answer "no". Consider it a 'control' question.

So of those respondents who are more likely to believe in presidential death panels, forced euthanasia discussions and Kenyan birth certificates, Republicans are found in surprisingly high proportions. I wonder where they get their news from?

Originally posted to Daily Kos on Tue Aug 18, 2009 at 06:50 AM PDT.

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Comment Preferences

  •  fucking hell (11+ / 0-)

    This is the "Were Saddam and Osama bin Laden BFFs?" polls from the Bush era all over again.

    •  GOPers recruit delusionals and the ignorant. (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      mmacdDE, stringer bell, Matt Z, MI Sooner

      Its been going on since 1968 -- when Nixon moved sharply to corral the Wallace voters.

      Lee Atwater focused the efforts at RNC in 1988, then Limbaugh and Rove made Know Nothing a movement.

      Lies replaced facts and logic.

      Theirs is not
      To question why;
      Theirs is only
      To swallow each lie.

      Please, read my sig line........................

      Angry White Males + Personality Disorder delusionals + sane Pro-Lifers =EQ= The GOPer Base

      by vets74 on Tue Aug 18, 2009 at 07:12:48 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  The biggest reason (5+ / 0-)

      my ID is "Jeffersonian" is because he was an early proponent of public education. Until you have an informed and educated populace you can't have working democracy.

      If this country is becoming Russia, then why didn't Sarah Palin see this coming?

      by Jeffersonian on Tue Aug 18, 2009 at 07:19:22 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  But it has been said.. (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      bmcphail, Spiffarino

         "Against stupidity, the gods themselves contend in vain."

    •  What's the big deal? To be a Republican you HAVE (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      to believe a whole lot of things that aren't true.

    •  But that's the reason you gotta love polls! (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      stringer bell, bmcphail

      It reminds us all that there is a baseline of Crazy in this country of around 10%. Probably been here since he early days of the Republic. Hell, you read the history books, you think about half of them were crazy back then!
      Of course, we had a continent's worth of undeeded, if not unoccupied land, back then so the country got to "kick the can" of its lunatic citizens out further west, where they "just" killed Native Americans.
      You're right, it's not really a topic for flippancy. But it is historically accurate to say that America was founded by and for these sorts of guys in a large proportion. They are very eager to claim the mantle of primogeniture on that account. It's up to the sane to get it back without shooting them for it.

      Maybe we should just figure out where to keep the, politically speaking, far far away from the people who really debate policy based on facts and evidence. They can be the scary uncle at the Thanksgiving table who is steered to a spare bedroom for a nap.

      Better yet, don't tell invite him, because he broke the big platter and scared the kids so badly last year. He doesn't deserve a seat at the table anymore.

      Metaphorically speaking, of course.

      Pleased to meet you.

      by dinnerbell on Tue Aug 18, 2009 at 07:49:23 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  I'd like to see a follow up question (5+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      sny, stringer bell, Matt Z, MI Sooner, JML9999

      about how many subscribe to basic cable, basic satellite TV, as compared to how many have premium channel packages from their providers. We've learned recently here that FOX is always in the basic channel lineup along with the major broadcast networks and CNN and MSNBC are relegated to premium packages which poor folks (including many older seniors) can't afford or won't pay for.

      Let's bust them up in little pieces so they can't hold us hostage like this.

      by RustyCannon on Tue Aug 18, 2009 at 07:09:35 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  followup LECTURE, for me (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Matt Z, RustyCannon

        I know, I know. it goes beyond the mission statement of a poll, but when you're polling political opinion that's one thing. When you're polling acceptance of objective fact, well, we used to call that a test, back when I was in school. And when you get one wrong on the test, the teacher TELLS you it is wrong, then goes over the correct answer, so thare can be no doubt that there is a right, correct answer, and there is...everything else.
        Maybe then fewer of our lower achieving students wouldn't be so eager to copy down the wrong answers childish insults the illiterate bully in the back row shouts out.

        Entry # 359 of why kamarvt could never hack it as a pollster.

        The Republican Party will never die until there is a new political home for racists.

        by kamarvt on Tue Aug 18, 2009 at 07:27:41 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  Good point. I want to see the age statistics too. (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      I believe it is more strongly correlated.

      If so, it's a new hope, because young republicans are not impressed by lies, reason will prevail in a couple of years.

      Fear is the path to the Dark Side. Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate... leads to suffering...

      by JackLord on Tue Aug 18, 2009 at 07:11:02 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  There aren't any "younger." (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      Not many...............................

      Angry White Males + Personality Disorder delusionals + sane Pro-Lifers =EQ= The GOPer Base

      by vets74 on Tue Aug 18, 2009 at 07:13:39 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Did Anyone Who Cheered the Moon Landings (11+ / 0-)

    40 years ago envision a future with this being the topic of national political polling?

    We are called to speak for the weak, for the voiceless, for victims of our nation and for those it calls enemy.... --ML King "Beyond Vietnam"

    by Gooserock on Tue Aug 18, 2009 at 06:52:44 AM PDT

  •  When facts don't matter, it's hard to think (7+ / 0-)

    of a way to educate people who get their news from propagandists.  

    Sometimes I wonder whether the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on or by imbeciles who really mean it. --Mark Twain

    by SottoVoce on Tue Aug 18, 2009 at 06:53:32 AM PDT

  •  Maybe the northeastern states (10+ / 0-)

    can form some sort of regional single-payer network. If some people want to watch Fox news and wallow in stupidity, be my guest, just don't make me suffer on their behalf.

    The weak in courage is strong in cunning-William Blake

    by beltane on Tue Aug 18, 2009 at 06:54:06 AM PDT

    •  I've gone further (8+ / 0-)

      I love the US.  I fly the flag, I vote, I write letters, I have taught our history and government for almost 25 years...

      But there are times where things were a bit different.

      I live in New York.  Lately, I've come to wonder what would a nation that consisted of the following be like-

      Maine, New Hampshire, Vermont, Massachusetts, New York, Connecticut, New Jersey, Pennsylvania, Delaware and Maryland.

      It is amazing how the dumbest and most batshit insane areas of the nation- yes, I'm looking at you in the South- have been able to strangle this country seemingly at will so many times.


      "Sick Around the World"

      Watch it, sent it along to all you know.

      by oxfdblue on Tue Aug 18, 2009 at 06:59:56 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Maybe the south could secede again (4+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        vets74, beltane, RustyCannon, oxfdblue

        and this time we'd let them.

        It is simply self-defeating for any community to discriminate against half its population. Jimmy Carter

        by coral on Tue Aug 18, 2009 at 07:02:02 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  I'd vote for that if we had national initiatives (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          vets74, nottoosureanymore

          Let's bust them up in little pieces so they can't hold us hostage like this.

          by RustyCannon on Tue Aug 18, 2009 at 07:04:06 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  We'd pay them. n/t (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:

          Iuris praecepta sunt haec: Honeste vivere, alterum non laedere, suum cuique tribuere. - Ulpian, Digestae 1, 3

          by Dauphin on Tue Aug 18, 2009 at 07:04:38 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  We'd have to (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:

            think about it; an unruly, violence-prone, poor-and-getting-poorer third world nation with active hostility to the US right across a very long, undefended border.
            Yup. We'd be paying amounts that would make Israel and Pakistan green with envy, just to keep that simmering resentment at the growing gap in quality of life from boiling over into endless bloody border skirmishes.
            Then there's the whole illegal immigrant problem. Think we've got one now? Hah. Wait 'til BillyBob can't get parts for his truck in Jesusland, and realizes picking cotton for Oxycontin bottles isn't the road to riches.

            The Republican Party will never die until there is a new political home for racists.

            by kamarvt on Tue Aug 18, 2009 at 07:35:23 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

        •  Had Sherman done a better job, and killed the (0+ / 0-)

          ruling Elite of the Confederacy instead of only destroying their property, we'd all be better off these days.

        •  Civil War Tourette's strikes again (0+ / 0-)

          And as for "everywhere" but the south, look at this:

          Gallup Poll, Midyear 2009, State of the States

          If you look inside the census region "the west" you'll find the reddest four states in the U.S. Meanwhile in "the south" VA, NC, FL went for Obama in 2008, and GA, LA, TN, AR now lean distinctly blue. Even The Economist expects Texas to go blue in 5-10 years.

          I'm spending a lot of time fighting for health care and universal high speed Internet everywhere, especially here in rural south Georgia:

          What are you doing to help?

          "Reserve your right to think, for even to think wrongly is better than not to think at all." --Hypatia of Alexandria, c.400

          by jayskew on Tue Aug 18, 2009 at 11:23:34 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

    •  That's a good idea... (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      I know that California tried to pass one, only to be vetoed.

      I think if say the Northeastern region signs a pact to create a single payer system which can be funded with adequate taxation it would simply make it an inevitability nationwide eventually.

      It seems at this point that nothing will ever happen at the federal level of any consequence. Capitol Hill and the White House have been bought and nothing will change this unless public funding of elections happens (read: never) so they will only act unless forced to--if a significant number of Americans in various states have single payer at some point they might be forced to accept it and nationalize the programs.

      "People place their hand on the Bible and swear to uphold the Constitution. They don't put their hand on the Constitution and swear to uphold the Bible." --J.R.

      by michael1104 on Tue Aug 18, 2009 at 07:27:13 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Uh, Because (3+ / 0-)

    Republicans are STOOPID. Yes, Alex, STOOPID Republicans for $500.

    •  I think it's because (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      sawgrass727, Into The Woods, Matt Z

      they've lost soooooo many people. The number of people who identify as Republicans has dropped a lot in the last 4 yrs.

      So basically, they're left with the loonies, and those who just absolutely positively will not change.

      Everybody else is either Dem or Ind.

      I would like to see raw numbers - the number of people who identified as Dem/Rep/Ind. I'll bet it's really skewed in age and region, as well as the Dem/Ind having a big majority.

  •  lotsa 'not sure' goopsters outs there. (4+ / 0-)
  •  Short diary: Pugs more likely to believe (8+ / 0-)

    the earth is flat.

    When an old man dies, a library burns down. --African proverb

    by Wom Bat on Tue Aug 18, 2009 at 06:55:58 AM PDT

  •  Orwell was wrong and Huxley was right. (13+ / 0-)

    You don't need to use torture to re-educate people. Infotainment and junk food work better.

    Iuris praecepta sunt haec: Honeste vivere, alterum non laedere, suum cuique tribuere. - Ulpian, Digestae 1, 3

    by Dauphin on Tue Aug 18, 2009 at 06:57:14 AM PDT

  •  It's not PC to say (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    sawgrass727, Matt Z, beltane

    the south is full of dumbasses.  Clearly, though, we have more than our share.

    It's just scary.

    You know, I think the second question almost sounds like a well-crafted push-poll.  It's close to the truth, but then they went and stuck "euthanasia" in there.  It's possible that a few people stopped listening well after the first half of the question.

    I don't know why people can't figure out that euthanasia is illegal in every state of the union, and that nothing in this bill will change that.

    Join us in the Grieving Room on Monday evenings to discuss mourning and loss.

    by Dem in the heart of Texas on Tue Aug 18, 2009 at 06:57:18 AM PDT

  •  I stopped watching the death panels years ago. (5+ / 0-)

    TV talking head commentators are useless, deadly. Yak yak yak. Why would anyone pay attention to those people...?


    Those death panels......

    (....never mind...)

    This is not what I thought I'd be when I grew up.

    by itzik shpitzik on Tue Aug 18, 2009 at 06:57:36 AM PDT

  •  President born in Kenya (8+ / 0-)

    now creating Socialist Death Panels fueled by illegal taxation of patriots.

    Moon landing was made in a Hollywood basement.

    Bigfoot LIVES!

    God Guns and Guts!

    Drill Baby Drill!

    Mar-ju-wanna will make you get man-boobs!

    (A lexicon of shared paranoid delusions that emanate straight from the top of the Republican Party.)

    Torture good, Healthcare bad, Marijuana evil.
    Doc in the Twitterverse

    by xxdr zombiexx on Tue Aug 18, 2009 at 06:57:38 AM PDT

  •  Don't be too proud of this technological terror (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Matt Z, RustyCannon

    you've constructed. The ability to destroy my son Trig with your Death Panel is insignificant next to the power of the Dark Side! - Darth Palin.

    Sarah Palin is attacking the Death Star Panel from her Rebel Snow Machine.

    by Bobs Telecaster on Tue Aug 18, 2009 at 06:57:55 AM PDT

  •  Republicans also beleive in (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    vets74, RustyCannon, Bobs Telecaster

    vampires, and in the theory that witches cause their sexual dysfunction.

    The weak in courage is strong in cunning-William Blake

    by beltane on Tue Aug 18, 2009 at 06:58:24 AM PDT

  •  Those who speak the loudest (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    irmaly, RustyCannon

    It is my belief, based only anecdotally, that those who speak the loudest have the least to say.  So, I want to see a survey to check whether the unsure or  incorrect people are less or more likely to have attended a town hall.

  •  Northeast rocks! (0+ / 0-)

    Obviously people here are better educated and pay more attention to news than other areas of the country.

    It is simply self-defeating for any community to discriminate against half its population. Jimmy Carter

    by coral on Tue Aug 18, 2009 at 06:59:57 AM PDT

  •  Two different worlds, (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    we live in two different worlds.

    One nation, with two irreconcilable realities having  unique concepts of liberty and justice for each.

    If cats could blog.... they wouldn't.

    by crystal eyes on Tue Aug 18, 2009 at 07:00:45 AM PDT

  •  And the earth was created flat ca 4500 BC... (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    brit librarian

    They're also more likely to believe you get warts from frogs, go blind from self-abuse, that Fox is a credible source of information, and that they are morally superior and above the law because God speaks to them and them only.  Fools.

    I think that Republicanism is revealing itself as a personality disorder, not so much an ideology." -- Naomi Klein

    by AllanTBG on Tue Aug 18, 2009 at 07:00:54 AM PDT

  •  I would love to see this broken down into AGE and (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    Education also...

    I wonder if the repubs who believe this crap are of a certain AGE and older and if they have a college education or even a HS diploma...

    CNN aka CRANK Network Non-news

    by KnotIookin on Tue Aug 18, 2009 at 07:02:10 AM PDT

  •  first victim (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    Well, why shouldn't those dopes believe in them?  There's already evidence:
    the public option appears to be the first victim of a death panel.

    Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle--Plato

    by Philip Graham on Tue Aug 18, 2009 at 07:02:25 AM PDT

  •  What did you expect from Republicans? (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    beltane, RustyCannon

    When you consider their leading official at the state level is a former Dating Game contestant (for details on that, check out the gullibility of their masses doesn't shock me at all.

  •  "The Nonsense Party" (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Matt Z

    I say we stop calling them the Republican Party and just call them the "Nonsense Party."

    •  Yes nonsense but they are preventing us (0+ / 0-)

      from accomplishing anything useful.  We have a weak Democratic Party on the other side of this who actually think you can negotiate with this nonsense.  Doesn't that make them nonsensical as well?

      Co-opt is a recycled failed idea.

      by noofsh on Tue Aug 18, 2009 at 07:25:02 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Could we please stop talking (0+ / 0-)

    about death squads?  This was just a phony phrase and concept supported by only the most extremists people.

    The more we talk about death squads, the more it seems like they are something real, rather than a scare tactic.

  •  Can someone overlay this info... (0+ / 0-)

    ...with educational stats?
    I know, I know... not enough data.

    I'd love to know how that matches up.

  •  This is why sponsors should flee (6+ / 0-)

    Glenn Beck.  He is reinforcing these lies, scaring not-so-informed people into action. He is creating a min-militia of these people.

    I overheard a bunch of older guys talk yesterday at lunch.  One was a Glenn Beck devotee, a Tea Bagger, and he was misinformed/ delusional/angry as hell/brainwashed/ready to shoot something, somebody.  He was dead sure he was right, everyone else was wrong.  

    People on the right are being whipped up into a frenzy by the Beck/ Limbaugh/ Hannity.  Time to go after all the sponsors.

    •  YES! (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      Go after all the sponsors . . . of Beck, O'Reilley, Limbaugh.  My family and I just passed on eating at Red Lobster, because of their advertising on Beck.

      Put the fear of God (loss of money) in the hate speech loons . . .

      Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle--Plato

      by Philip Graham on Tue Aug 18, 2009 at 07:10:09 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Just keep referencing Bush death panels (0+ / 0-)

    in Texas, over and over until that circulates even into their media

  •  asdf (0+ / 0-)

    Do you think the health care reform plan being considered by President Obama and Congress creates "death panels" which have the authority to subjectively determine whether or not a gravely ill or injured person should receive health care based on their "level of productivity in society"?

    Anyone seen Hummer Guy lately on the teevee?  He seemed to be all for this.

  •  In 2000, Bush said Soc Sec wasn't a Gvt program. (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    tmo, RustyCannon

    He said it at a campaign rally or a town hall -- and the Gore campaign turned the gaffe into their most effective ad of the entire campaign.

  •  New Poll Shows We May Have New Majority Leader (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Matt Z, Greasy Grant

    From the Las Vegas Review,

    In three Reid-related categories -- image, approval and whether they would vote to re-elect -- respondents gave the senator a thumbs down. Just 39 percent viewed Reid favorably, and 34 percent said they would vote to re-elect him.

    "All of those are very, very telling pieces of information," said Vitale, who has been a pollster for 15 years. "I've never seen an incumbent with numbers this bad who hadn't had some scandal."

    Personally I think Harry's leadership has been scandalous in it's overall weakness. Poll: Reid would lose if Lowden were to run

  •  What's with the title of this post - what's next? (0+ / 0-)

    Sun more likely to rise in the East?

    Private insurance companies only profit from denying health care, killing 20,000 Americans a year. A real public option ENDS the rationing of health care.

    by ShadowSD on Tue Aug 18, 2009 at 07:14:27 AM PDT

  •  Without making a much longer critique of the (0+ / 0-)

    limits of survey research and indeed all social science research, this constant polling legitimates certain terms like death panels and serve as its own kind of push polling. It may verify some momentary point of data, but it is an unfortunate crutch for those unwilling to go to more substantive levels of policy analysis.

    I refuse to have a battle of wits with an unarmed person. -- Pogo

    by annieli on Tue Aug 18, 2009 at 07:15:07 AM PDT

  •  they're also more likely to believe in unicorns (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Matt Z

    The modern, theocratic Republican party is also more likely to believe in tooth fairies, Easter bunnies, Bigfoot, and the Earth being flat (after all, it says it is in the Bible, and who are we to dispute the divinely-inspired word of the guy who supposedly created the place... 6000 years ago?)

    The Republican base is about one step removed from declaring anyone with a flashlight to be a "wizard," so it's not surprising that they believe all sorts of ridiculous absurdities.  That's one reason I could never join their party, despite having some conservative principles.  (Their horrible track record on actually upholding those conservative principles is another: despite their reputation, the Democrats actually do a much better job in those areas).

    Republicans have no credibility left.  And they're just getting dumber and dumber.

    This morning my Republican Evangelical co-worker asked me, "Is plastic good for dogs to eat?"   No shit.  This is the level of intellect we're dealing with... and we're surprised when they believe "death panels"?  I know they don't think, and I'm starting to wonder if some of them are even capable of critical thought anymore.

    "Glenn Beck ends up looking like a fat, stupid child. His face should be wearing a chef's hat on the side of a box of eclairs. " - Doug Stanhope

    by Front Toward Enemy on Tue Aug 18, 2009 at 07:15:45 AM PDT

  •  So what? (0+ / 0-)

    We live in a world where people spend money on pilgrimages to see Jesus in a tomato plant, and you're surprised?

    The daily miracle of American democracy is that we don't all just kill each other right away and dissolve into warring splinter kingdoms like Somalia.  I can't quite figure out how that works, and I never will.

  •  The GOP apparently (0+ / 0-)

    would like the majority of Americans to be illiterate, without the internet, have only Fox news on cable, and have only Rush Limbaugh to listen to. I mean it is the only strategy we have. I can't believe we are letting the lowest common denominator of this country get their way.

  •  For that 25% of Rs that don't know Medicare (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    tmo, dsmmom

    is a government program, I would have liked a follow up to ask, "what time of night can you best see the Medicare Fairy go on her appointed rounds?"

  •  Eugene Robinson WaPo (0+ / 0-)

    The president needs to take control and lead. Not teach, lead those pesky Blue Dogs and the Vanity Parade in the Senate.

    PROBLEM: If conservative "Blue Dog" Democrats are successful in nixing a public health insurance option and watering down other reforms, progressive voters have a right to ask why they went to such trouble to elect Democratic majorities and a Democratic president. [...]

    SOLUTION: What the president hasn't done is the obvious: Tell Congress and the American public, clearly and forcefully, what has to be done and why. Take control of the debate. Consult less and insist more. Remind the Blue Dogs who's president and who's not.

    Lou Dobbs is asking someone to assassinate Howard Dean with a stake to the heart. How can this be legal?

    by mrobinson on Tue Aug 18, 2009 at 07:22:43 AM PDT

  •  Where did they get their information? (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    Must be a rhetorical question. Clearly, Fox News.

    Co-opt is a recycled failed idea.

    by noofsh on Tue Aug 18, 2009 at 07:23:39 AM PDT

  •  Death Panels already exist (0+ / 0-)

    To think the government will not eventually form so-called 'death panels' is absurd.

    Death Panels already exist.  Look at what's happening in Texas.  Be sure to listen to the audio recording on that site, too.

  •  The South Leads The Way (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    Again!  I know.  I have lived among them for 20 years.  They surround me.  Wingnut Phil Gingrey is my Rep.  He said on Hardball yesterday that he is OK with people bringing guns to political events.  

    Obama would be perfect if he were a Cubs fan.

    by Georgia Liberal on Tue Aug 18, 2009 at 07:27:30 AM PDT

  •  OK... so there is a general level of ignorance (0+ / 0-)

    among the republicans.... what is new maybe because independents are closer to democrats than they are to republicans.

    God is a process not a person

    by Dhirty on Tue Aug 18, 2009 at 07:27:40 AM PDT

  •  What we can do (0+ / 0-)

    Push the WH as hard as we can. Break their voicemails. Sad to say, because I thought Barack Obama was a natural leader, not just an inspiring teacher. OK I get it. Let's go on with what we have - a bunch of vain senators and weak leadership and push them hard. Get the back of any of our health care heroes.

    We lose Health Care, we lose the offensive on all the coming fights, climate change, everything. We lose, Republicans just get stronger.

    Lou Dobbs is asking someone to assassinate Howard Dean with a stake to the heart. How can this be legal?

    by mrobinson on Tue Aug 18, 2009 at 07:28:20 AM PDT

  •  Research 2000 (0+ / 0-) one of the greatest additions to dkos, to be able to hone in on questions like this. Can't wait to see the health-care polling later this week.

  •  Republicans are also more likely to believe... (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Matt Z

    ...that the moon is made of cheese.
    ...that you can predict pregnancy with a potato.
    ...that they are JUST ONE INVESTMENT AWAY from total financial independence, and that buying some stupid CD is going to get them there.
    ...that they can purchase eternal salvation from a guy on TV who wears lavender-sequined jackets and sings poorly.
    ...that their, and ONLY their, representatives in Congress are morally superior to everyone else's, and that it's the fault of liberals when one of their "flock" cheats on their spouse.

  •  I wonder what it's like (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Matt Z

    to live in an alternate reality where Obama is a Kenyan-born usurper who wants to kill grandmothers, Medicare is not a government program, the Earth is 6000 years old and the sun goes around the Earth (yes, as many as 18% of Americans have said they believe that), and where Fox is a place to get reliable news.  Must be a bizarre universe.

    Civil marriage is a civil right.

    by UU VIEW on Tue Aug 18, 2009 at 07:32:36 AM PDT

  •  I think the 5% of Dems that believe in (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    "Death Panels" suggests that in any poll, 5% of people will misunderstand the damned question.

  •  DemFromCT, is the wording correct for (0+ / 0-)

    results?  or am i just confused this morning? -- thx.

    3. Which of the following do you consider to be the most accurate reflection of the health care reform plan being considered by President Obama and Congress? (ROTATED): A government take over the entire health care system OR The government will provide a non-profit health insurance option to compete with private firms.

    Compete    47
    Take over  26
    Not sure   27

    Born in Oklahoma Raised in Ohio Escaped to Meechigan!!!

    by MI Sooner on Tue Aug 18, 2009 at 07:34:57 AM PDT

  •  Dick Armey has been too cute by half. (0+ / 0-)

    He will be nothing when the plug gets pulled.

    Insurance companies are comprised of very conservative people. I am sure that they are aghast at the militancy with which people have been manipulated, conned into acting violent based on things that aren't real at all.

    It's threats of violence and armed men roaming around parking lots where the President is speaking that gets the executives by the throat.

    As soon as someone makes the public connection that AIG was also an insurance company that defrauded the treasury of the United States, 'baggers will be done for.

    First they ignore you. Then they laugh at you. Then they fight you. Then you win. -Mohandas K. Gandhi

    by ezdidit on Tue Aug 18, 2009 at 07:36:47 AM PDT

  •  10% (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Matt Z

    This is really starting to get to me, the fact that 10% of this country are dictating the debate in this country.

    10% of our societies most gullible and uninformed(misinformed).

    This country was far more divided over Civil Rights legislation, far more divided over Medicare, far more divided over Social security.

    Yet the majority WANTED those things, so we got them. But now 76% of Americans want a public option and yet we not only give equal time to those who don't want it, we give them the lions share of the debate.

  •  Lincoln made a big mistake (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Matt Z

    After emancipating the slaves, Lincoln should have insisted the South become a separate nation and only allow it back into the Union when it drops below 50% stupid.

    I say this as a proud - yet appalled - North Carolinian who is forced to listen to these teabagging idiots on a daily basis.

  •  Should ask: Is SS/Medicare a Socialist system nt (0+ / 0-)

    "Let's Go Change the World!" ~ Barack Obama

    by Jdories on Tue Aug 18, 2009 at 07:41:32 AM PDT

  •  One of these days... (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    tmo, bmcphail

    ...this society is going to have to acknowledge the dismal fact that one of its "major" political parties is no longer a political party at all.  It is instead  a ragtag collection of con artists and their marks, of profiteers and lunatics, of the misleading and the misled.  Its members consistently believe things that are demonstrably untrue.  Its leadership consistently repeats those things.  Its members and leadership have consistently displayed either a breathtaking ignorance of,  or outright contempt for,  the laws, values, history and institutions of this nation.  They have worked assiduously to undermine the common good - in fact they have waged a generations-long assault on the very concept.

    And now not only do they promulgate lies, they wage a concerted campaign to prevent anyone from even presenting the truth.

    The GOP as currently constituted is at best a pathology, at worst a criminal conspiracy.  But it is not a political party.

    "To hell with the rich. They made me sick." - Philip Marlowe

    by Roddy McCorley on Tue Aug 18, 2009 at 08:08:19 AM PDT

  •  A cretin will poll the same across (0+ / 0-)

    multiple issues.

    "Mr. President, I'm not saying we wouldn't get our hair mussed." General Buck Turgidson

    by muledriver on Tue Aug 18, 2009 at 08:13:49 AM PDT

  •  Am I the only one (0+ / 0-)

    that can't help but hear a "derp!" in the back of my mind every time I read the word "South" in these polls?

    As I read the poll results, my internal dialog goes something like this:

    Let's see...Dems. Yep, good. Republicans, eh, predictable. Indies...mmmhmmm...Northeast, oh wow, those guys are bright. South--DERP-A-DERRR DERR!! BWAAA BWAA BWAAA **drools all over self like a completely helpless imbecile** DUUHHHHHHHH!!!

    If "Don't Tread on Me" means "Don't fix health care," then please...tread on me.

    by jabuhrer on Tue Aug 18, 2009 at 08:14:58 AM PDT

  •  Conclusions (0+ / 0-)
    1. Clearly Republicans and Southerners are routinely misinformed and/or under informed when compared to the rest of the nation.
    1. This poll (not surprisingly) shows support for that which is consistent with the Democratic election agenda of 2008, the current House bills and the President's proposal.
    1. Follow-up / tracking polling on the health care questions needs to be done and presented over and over and over and over again in the run up to votes on the bills.
    1. Clearly an education bill is needed to stimulate southern republicans.  ;-)
  •  Did you really need a poll (0+ / 0-)

    to figure out that Republicans believe lies more often?

    But we didn't elect Obama to be an expedient president. We elected him to be a great one. -Eugene Robinson

    by jaslusher on Tue Aug 18, 2009 at 08:23:47 AM PDT

  •   And Who Won theCivil War? (0+ / 0-)

    Who Won The Civil War?
     Dems.  North 95%
     North - North-98%
     South-- North- 55%

     The South, despite UNC Chapel Hill, Duke, and UVA  (and many Northerners go there)and education are basically an oxymoron. The Southern-run GOP won't support a government health care option, co-operatives, or frankly anything a Dem. pushes. If Obama got up today and said 1+1=2, the GOP would contest that as a "socialist plot." A strong public option must remain in the bill. Get it passed via Senate reconciliation as Huff. Post writer Lux suggests. Dems., start governing. For more on G"NO"P nonsense, read    

  •  We already knew... (0+ / 0-)

    ...a lot of Republicans are morons.

  •  Still Dixie.... (0+ / 0-)

    No surprise. It ain't Democrats, it's stupid conservaitve Republican southerners.
    I'd love to see regional breakdown of Fundamentalists.....

  •  3PO, shut down all the death panels on the... (0+ / 0-)

    ... detention level!

    Daniel Patrick Moynihan: Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts.

    by bobinson on Tue Aug 18, 2009 at 08:55:09 AM PDT

  •  Are the death panels... (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    going to be held at FEMA camps, staffed by one-eyed, one-horned flying purple people eaters?

    We have teh right to k-now.

    -8.00, -8.26 "Fascism is capitalism plus murder." - Upton Sinclair

    by djMikulec on Tue Aug 18, 2009 at 09:29:49 AM PDT

  •  Loonies (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    I was at a Demo rally at the Grand Junction Obama Town Hall Meeting.  The loonies were across the street screaming and waving their angry signs.
    (To be fair, not all were loonies; some were just wrong ~)

    A guy standing next to me said "Well, you can't cure stupid, but you sure can organize it".  Yup.  

  •  Southern Republicans are funny (0+ / 0-)

    They hear some northerner on the phone asking a bunch of questions that are none of their business, so they give the most outrageous answers they can think of, trying to snap this person out of their scripted robotic monotone.  Nothing works, so they give more and more ridiculous answers, "I'm not sure where that Obama was born," or "Yeah, I'm sure he is putting together death panels."  I love dry humor where ordinary people pull a fast one on those sophisticated city-folk pollsters.

  •  wow, that's devastating (0+ / 0-)

    a full quarter of Republicans believes that death panels are real and even a greater percentage is not sure? And a third of R's believes that seniors are required to learn about euthanasia under the plan? Man, that's scary. These people can vote.

    We don't inherit the world from the past. We borrow it from the future.

    by minorityusa on Tue Aug 18, 2009 at 09:33:52 AM PDT

  •  The ideal poll: Nothing but control questions (0+ / 0-)

    I think such a fact-only poll would provide a proper context for validity of the arguments pushed by Republican spin and town hall mobs.

    Granted that the majority of Republicans should provide the correct answers, but their skew towards craziness / stupidity would be hugely evident.

    Then the objective follow-up question should be, "Why does the Republican population have such a skew?"  

    Of course, EVERYBODY knows the answer to that one, but we're well past the point when the media should be more critical of the legitimacy of its own he-said/she-said approach to covering issues.  e.g., When you've got a group of people carrying assault weapons outside a presidential event, you've can pretend that they are rational people.

  •  They get their news from..... (0+ / 0-)

    Rush, Glenn and Sean...who I like to refer to the top three members of the KKK.

  •  When it comes to stupidity (0+ / 0-)

    there is nothing that is partisan. The right was foolish to make the claim there would be "Death Panels", and those that firmly believed it without any thought are even moreso. That being said, it's the inevitable rationing that will occur down the road. Hopefully not in my lifetime, but unless something drastically changes in Washington, our government will have no choice at some point. Despite popular thought, the money supply is not endless!

    Oh yeah? My expert can beat up your expert!

    by Phatz on Tue Aug 18, 2009 at 10:25:45 AM PDT

  •  Being a somewhat old white guy who grew up (0+ / 0-)

    with racist all around me I believe the Old Racist White's of the Republican party believe in this because they believe Black's are out to rape and kill the White Race so anything they're told by their Leaders that supports this belief they just believe no questions asked and no facts matter.

  •  Forget the death panels: (0+ / 0-)

    24% of Republicans aren't sure/don't think Medicare is a government program? WTF. Seriously, it's hard to work with this level of ignorance. Perhaps this is really more about the education crisis in this country than the healthcare crisis.

  •  Maher right on this one. Huge chunk of citizenry (0+ / 0-)

    ARE fucking stupid. 18% believe sun revolves around the earth, too.

    Bullshit is the glue that binds us as a nation. George Carlin

    by gereiztkind on Tue Aug 18, 2009 at 11:22:12 AM PDT

  •  Every time you say "DEATH PANEL" (0+ / 0-)

    a baby seal gets clubbed to death.

    Seriously: what will it take for you to stop giving free advertising to the other side?

    You cannot refute your opposition's argument by using their rhetoric.

    I'm just saying.

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