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Research 2000 for Daily Kos. 8/17-20/2009. All adults. MoE 2% (8/10-13/2009 results):

FAVORABLEUNFAVORABLENET CHANGE
PRESIDENT OBAMA58 (60)38 (36)-4
PELOSI:34 (36)57 (56)-3
REID:33 (34)56 (55)-2
McCONNELL:17 (16)65 (66)+2
BOEHNER:13 (11)65 (66)+3
CONGRESSIONAL DEMS:41 (43)53 (51)-4
CONGRESSIONAL GOPS:12 (10)75 (76)+3
DEMOCRATIC PARTY:44 (45)49 (48)-2
REPUBLICAN PARTY:18 (17)72 (74)+3

Full crosstabs here. This poll is updated every Friday morning, and you can see trendline graphs here.

This week's edition of the Daily Kos Weekly National Tracking Poll tends to fly in the face of conventional wisdom, even as it mirrors other national pollsters. We see Obama's favorabilities drop into the 50s for the first time this year in our survey (remember that there is a marked distinction between "job approval" and "favorability" ratings, with favorability ratings usually being several points higher). This drop, as well as drops across the board for Democrats this week, have been witnessed in other surveys, as well.

The conventional wisdom, however, has been that the Democrats are suffering from some sort of political Icarus syndrome. They are flying too high and too soon, and the public disapproval will send them crashing back to earth.

The problem with that rationale, at least in our numbers this week, is that it doesn't match with the data.

Across the board, the drops among Obama and the Democratic Party have come not from the loyal opposition, nor have they come from dismayed Independents.

They have come from Democrats.

A cursory look at the graph for Obama's favorability, broken down by party, shows that after a long period of relative stability among Democrats, there was a sharp drop this week:

Looking at the raw numbers, the drop in Democratic support is even more notable:

Net Favorability Ratings For President Obama, By Party (Last Week in Parens)
DEMOCRATS: +72 (+78)
REPUBLICANS: - 86 (- 84)
INDEPENDENTS: +35 (+39)

As you can see, the needle barely moved among Republicans (with 6% favorability, there wasn't a whole lot of ground to concede). Independents moved, but it was Democrats that saw the sharpest drop.

This effect was even more magnified when looking at the perception of the electorate towards Congressional Democrats:

Net Favorability Ratings For Congressional Democrats, By Party (Last Week in Parens)
DEMOCRATS: +55 (+65)
REPUBLICANS: - 90 (- 90)
INDEPENDENTS: - 20 (- 15)

Anyone who thinks the protracted arguments over health care aren't frustrating the Democratic base need look no further. A ten-point dip in net favorability, in a single week, is a pretty solid statement.

A quick look at the generic Congressional ballot confirms that the Democrats have shed a great deal of soft supporters over the last few weeks. The margin between the Democrats and Republicans now rests at six points (35-29), the closest we have seen on that question since the item was inserted into the poll a couple of months back. Interestingly, the Republicans have gained virtually nothing over that time. The steady stream of voters no longer willing to commit to the Democrats on the ballot test have almost uniformly gone into the ranks of the undecided.

This is the first evidence we have seen that the Democratic base is starting to get impatient. The disgruntled Democratic base is also paying dividends the other way. The GOP sees rebounding numbers across the board. A quick look at the internals tells us that this is being driven, in no small part, by a boost from their own base.

Yet another piece of evidence to bolster the long-held maxim that who is on offense, and who is on defense, matters a great deal in American politics.

Originally posted to Daily Kos on Fri Aug 21, 2009 at 09:36 AM PDT.

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Comment Preferences

    •  One can wait even 3 yrs if there was insurance (6+ / 0-)

      that the DEMs won't sell out. At this time, it doesn't look so...

      Democrats keep the US from becoming Third World. :)

      by The Simple Canadian on Fri Aug 21, 2009 at 09:50:18 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  President obama is okay being a one term pres (7+ / 0-)

      Press secretary just said in the briefing. It seems that obama is fine with being a one term president if that means getting what needs to be done. I have a feeling that no matter what happens during his 4 years, he won't run again and that saddens me that his own party will be partially blamed if republicans get back in office. If he does lose or decides not to run, we can only look at ourselves as the reason.

      •  No. That guilt bs (15+ / 0-)

        won't fly.

        Barack Obama is responsible for himself.  He makes good and bad choices.

        This comment reminds me of arguments that people failed communism rather than communism failing the people. It's bs.

        They "prefer an America where parents will lie awake at night worried if they can afford health care their children need."

        by TomP on Fri Aug 21, 2009 at 10:04:03 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  "impatient base" - that's us! right? :) n/t (13+ / 0-)

        When a true genius appears in the world, you will know him by this sign, that the dunces are all in confederacy against him. - j. swift

        by LibrErica on Fri Aug 21, 2009 at 10:04:42 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  I think he will run again (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        MariaWr

        I think he will run again. His attitude should be reflected in all of Washington getting results not getting elected. During the end of the campaign he had the same attitude and said "if I don't win I will go back to the life Michelle and I had which was pretty good."  

        I am not sure he can go against this big machine and he will get all the blame. I knew this would happen the person to clean up after Bush would have a hard time.

        However, I would not blame him if he didn't run again.  The 24/7 news and over analysis, trying to see what he meant by if, but, sliver....the WH having to defend everything, the media repeating lies instead of reporting. Republicans get a free pass and if Americans want that they deserve what they get.  

        •  He was asked this question in a town hall (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          jonnie rae

          He was asked this question in a town hall. His reply was, that "IF" he could get a lot of what he wants to get done, he said he would rather be a Great 4 year president then a a mediocre president in 8 years. I took that to mean, that if he thinks the country is on the right track he will bow out in 4 years.. I think being president is a tough job and I think he can and will run again, BUT I have a feeling he won't.

          •  Ridiculous (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Dallasdoc

            The President makes a self-aggrandizing promise to do hard things even if it means he can't get reelected. If it weren't for him reminding us, you'd forget how much of a saint he was!

            Guess what, he already broke his promises on numerous hard things (transparency, detainees, torture, gay rights), one would assume because it was easier to break those promises than expose his popularity to the challenges of real change (corporate media, GOP).

            He's not going anywhere unless the voters boot him out and he's not going to change anything unless we threaten to be a part of that backlash. He's a real, flesh and blood politician and he's an elite of the Democratic Party that recently brought you one cave after another to a deeply unpopular and tragically militant George Bush.

      •  let's try to save obama from bill clinton's shame (6+ / 0-)

        because bill clinton was such a triangulator, preferring the society and counsel of dick morris and various republicans to the liberal base, he ended up making a mess of his presidency so that when his second term was up, the democratic party had no credibility, guaranteeing W's election.

        i would flip the guilt trip on you, and say, if a republican succeeds obama after one term, it is on you. but i don't really believe it works that way. people have to speak their minds according to what they see.

        i see obama as a typical democratic, brilliant as a writer, really sharp thinker, and mediocre as a politician, taking what he thinks is the safe way. but when you straddle the fence, and the fence is moving, things get uncomfortable.

        franklin roosevelt was just another wealthy, mainstream democrat, made great by circumstances. may circumstances make obama great also. it won't happen without real liberals who don't like what we see as his mistakes fail to criticize them as vigorously as we think the situation merits.

        that is what is going to happen, and if obama happened ever to think it wouldn't happen, then he'll be finding it out as we go along.

        Politics is not arithmetic. It's chemistry.

        by tamandua on Fri Aug 21, 2009 at 10:14:33 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Republicans aren't coming back. (0+ / 0-)

        Not into the White House.  With whom--Sarah Palin?  If Obama doesn't run again in 2012, he'll be replaced in office by a Democrat.  At the rate things seem to be going now, Obama may be replaced in office by a Democrat even if he does run again.

        "Americans are a wonderful people: They will always do the right thing--after exhausting every other possible alternative."--Winston Churchill

        by keikekaze on Fri Aug 21, 2009 at 01:41:22 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  If Bush II could get elected twice, then anyone (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          keikekaze, quagmiremonkey

          can.

          •  I agree, really. (3+ / 0-)

            Obama is in no electoral trouble, no matter how badly his administration fucks up.  Where else are people going to go?  The point is, if Obama fails, it will be in the direction of not enough real action and change, rather than too much action and change.  That direction of failure is not one that leaves an opening for Republicans to take advantage of.  A public dissatisfied because it's not getting enough progress is not going to look to the GOP to right things.

            It would leave an opening to the left of Obama, if only there were anyone out there to take advantage of it . . .

            "Americans are a wonderful people: They will always do the right thing--after exhausting every other possible alternative."--Winston Churchill

            by keikekaze on Fri Aug 21, 2009 at 02:43:30 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  I think this is optimistic, if the health (3+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              zeke L, sassykathy46, keikekaze

              plan gets so watered down than it actually hurts the average poor or middle class in their pocket book and if unemployment remains high or gets higher, the voters will throw us out without even having to think about it.  That is why a public option to lower overall health costs is so important.

              That is also why the crdit card bill was too weak.  It did not control rates and the good provisions take too long to become effective.

              The stimulus bill was also too weak.  Too much money into the hands of the rich and not enough in the hands of the consumer.

              The climate change bill, in it's present state is little more than a giant bonus to the coal companies.

              All together, not a good start.

              •  Again, I mostly agree . . . (0+ / 0-)

                . . . but where are the voters going to go?  Sure as hell not to Sarah Palin.  Or the Mittster or Mike Huckabee.  Who else have the (official) Republicans got?  For one thing, you can't beat somebody with nobody--and everybody left in the GOP is nobody.  For another thing, Obama is already running a Republican administration in all but name.  If his administration keeps going in the direction it's going now, he's not going to be making Republicans mad.  He's going to be making progressives mad.  Angry progressives are not going to vote GOP just to spite Obama. They might sit home. They might vote third-party in 2012.  In any event, I don't see serious re-election trouble for Obama--and, believe me, coming from me, that is not an optimistic viewpoint!  : )  Except to the extent that I'm sure the GOP isn't coming back any time soon--never, if it remains under wingnut "control."

                I guess that's the key to what you call my "optimism"--the voters are not going to bring the wingnuts back, no matter how angry they get.

                "Americans are a wonderful people: They will always do the right thing--after exhausting every other possible alternative."--Winston Churchill

                by keikekaze on Sat Aug 22, 2009 at 01:51:53 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

            •  Just about any 3rd Party candidate from '08 (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              keikekaze

              "It would leave an opening to the left of Obama, if only there were anyone out there to take advantage of it . . ." - Just about any 3rd Party candidate from '08 would have been an improvement on the present reality, IMO. Wouldn't most progressives and liberals prefer to have Nader or McKinney in the White House now?  Could either of them done any worse? At least Nader or McKinney would have been less likely to have sold us out.

    •  WTF:Impatient? I've waited LONG ENOUGH for change (6+ / 0-)

      Change with Obama is just saying nice things and HOPING for bi-partisanship.  Nothing has changed.  NOTHING!  Now be good little sheeple and go back worshiping Obama.

      Kos: We haven't BUSTED OUR ASSES the last four years to pass bank bailouts and give insurance companies everything they ever wanted. Looks like we did Kos!

      by Churchill on Fri Aug 21, 2009 at 10:14:01 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  it's not all about you (5+ / 0-)

        it's about you and the 299,999,999 people who live in the country.  

        This is directed at you specifically, but I'm kind of disgusted with the notion that "I want change and I want it now" comes off like a baby.  The political process is slow and bumpy.  If you can't hang with the ride, then you might want to jump off the cart altogether.  I hear there are some good summer movies in the theaters.  

        "The political core of any movement for freedom in the society has to have the political imperative to protect free speech." bell hooks

        by patgdc on Fri Aug 21, 2009 at 10:21:48 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  obama isn't bush (5+ / 0-)

          ITA

          I believe that COWBOY diplomacy is what got us in the mess we are in right now. Obama is not BUSH. We all knew president obama had a low, even keeled, tempered personality long before he was elected and we knew that he doesn't go half cocked shooting from the hip when it comes to legislation. He takes his time and rationalize things before jumping head first. We are an impatient party because he has repeatedly said OCTOBER IS THE DEADLINE for reform or rather the end the year. It's stilll August and you have the democratic party acting crazy. It's a sad affair and all we are doing is helping the republicans. If america's sees that the democrats can't come together to get something done, why vote for them or obama again.

          •  Preemptive Crapping (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            kpardue, SottoVoce

            why vote for Obama and them again?  Because, for me and most, NOT voting is not an option, and the alternative is repugnant.

            Impatience is the Democrats' Achilles heel- it always has been.  Progress is, and always has been, achieved in baby steps.  Again, we must hang with it.  It's bumpy and irritating, but there's no turning back, so I think we need to suck it up and stick with him.

            We all know there will be health care reform.  A year ago we were all grappling with the possibility of Sarah Palin possessing the "nuc-u-lar" codes.  Let's all take a collective deep breath and stop preemptively crapping our pants.

            "The political core of any movement for freedom in the society has to have the political imperative to protect free speech." bell hooks

            by patgdc on Fri Aug 21, 2009 at 12:18:17 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          •  Dems are helping the ReThugs; I'm not (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            sassykathy46

            but I did used to support the Dems, so I'm at fault, except that I actually registered independent this week.

            Kos: We haven't BUSTED OUR ASSES the last four years to pass bank bailouts and give insurance companies everything they ever wanted. Looks like we did Kos!

            by Churchill on Fri Aug 21, 2009 at 05:48:05 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

        •  that's a wierd reaction to both the comment (5+ / 0-)

          and to the poll. If he's dropping on the Democrats side it's not because people want change now. They want somebody to actually work for change and use the power they vested in him to govern. The fierce urgency of now and audacity, and yes we can, were what got him elected. That and his promises of a new politics which have all morphed into the no we can't, using the same rationale (and personnel) of the freakin crooks he replaced.  

          He shows no signs of rocking any corporate boats and there is a huge difference between his rhetoric and his policy not to mention his dubious agenda in both domestic and foreign policy. Impatience is not what I feel or I bet the people in the poll, they are disappointed and heading towards disillusionment. What's the problem? He has the freakin power he has the mandate why does he do the same dance as the right? Or cede power to the likes of Grassley who must have an IQ of a grasshopper. He is like all the Dems using the political for cover because he is sponsored by the same entities that 'own the place'.  

          Even the politics involved here seems ass backward. I'm not jumping off any cart but I'm sure as hell not going to be bamboozled by this lame political Kabuki that seems to only empower the status quo and it's not the common good it's not 'we the people... it's the same crap as before... only with a more articulate spokesperson. Left of the left my ass. I worked for his campaign and donated beyond what i could afford and now I'm impatient because I expect him to deliver or at least start the process.

          btw .. my impatience disgust is not limited to this it extends to the neocon wars, the Goldman Saks takeover and the continuing shredding of the constitution and disregard for our laws. We are a two party system so whats with this by-partisan bs.        

          "And if my thought-dreams could be seen They'd probably put my head in a guillotine" Bob Dylan

          by shaharazade on Fri Aug 21, 2009 at 12:34:43 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Well said (5+ / 0-)

            The reason the health reform debate is not helping the Democrats and Obama is that they are too meek to put real reform on the table. Everything is about how we can preserve the existing system and somehow regulate them into doing what we want, instead of just setting up a government program to get the damn thing done.

            •  I appreciate the sentiment, (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Churchill

              and I worked hard too.  I worked for my senator and I have let him know, repeatedly (over and over and over) that he will lose my support, and the support that comes along with my community involvement, if he bails on us- and he is one of weak kneed out there.  

              I am simply suggesting that we all buckle in and keep the pressure on- in the same way that we kept it on during the election.  

              The primary thing that I remember after November's election is that Obama warned that it wasn't over- it had just begun.  Can you honestly say that you have put the same effort into the health care reform movement that you were putting into the election this time last year?  

              Look, I know we are all tired.  Last year damned near killed me.  I walked door to door in 100 degree heat and spent nights on the phone.  If we put that kind of effort into getting this health care reform done, then we will have done our part.

              As for Obama being a wuss and backing off, I would argue that with Rohm Emmanuel on the job, I seriously doubt there haven't been a few arms twisted.  This whole thing is just showboating.  Keep the pressure on.

              "The political core of any movement for freedom in the society has to have the political imperative to protect free speech." bell hooks

              by patgdc on Fri Aug 21, 2009 at 01:10:29 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  I knew what I was fighting for then (3+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                Churchill, sassykathy46, shaharazade

                . . . to get Obama elected. I don't even agree with the health care reforms that are on the table. For me, with or without the public option, the individual mandate negates the whole thing because as Obama said during the campaign, the reason that people don't have health insurance is not because they don't want it, it's because they can't afford it. By removing the people's freedom of choice, there's no way of making sure that it's going to be affordable. We'll be charged whatever the industry and their lobbyists deem appropriate to maintain their megaprofits.

                The individual mandate is in all of the proposed legislation, so I have nothing to fight for at this point. If we want everyone covered, then let's act like nearly every other developed country and automatically cover everyone with a government plan.

                I also don't agree with the mandates on employers and on insurance companies either. If it's not affordable to the employer, then they're just going to either lay off workers, or go out of business. Again, a mandate is immaterial; either it's affordable or it's not. And requiring insurance companies to take all comers even with pre-existing conditions means that some of their customers will be money-losers from Day One. They only way that will work is if the government essentially guarantees their profits through subsidies, and that's how we got where we are in banking and autos, with government continually shovelling money that ends up in the bank accounts of CEO's and shareholders.

          •  I WORKED for change for 5 YRS, I've worked enoug (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            sassykathy46, shaharazade

            if you've been around a year the you seem to think wow why are you in a hurry.  I've worked, now the idiot DEMS should do there part, but they aren't.

            Why should we keep working, when they have all the votes they need to pass a bill

            Kos: We haven't BUSTED OUR ASSES the last four years to pass bank bailouts and give insurance companies everything they ever wanted. Looks like we did Kos!

            by Churchill on Fri Aug 21, 2009 at 05:49:58 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          •  I agree with nearly every thing you've said... (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            shaharazade

            stress the nearly.  I took some exception to your statement, "We are a two party system so whats with this by-partisan bs", because I don't believe any more in the two party system. I believe the 2 party system has morphed into a single 2 headed party kissing corporate a__.

            BTW, I highly recommend Walter Karp's book Indispensable Enemies

            •  Should have written (0+ / 0-)

              we are supposed to be.....LOL Thanks for the book recommend. Maybe a viable third party would give us two party's. I often wish we had a parliamentary system, at least that way it's easier to get them out faster. It also seems to keep the pols busy fighting each other instead of us.  

              "And if my thought-dreams could be seen They'd probably put my head in a guillotine" Bob Dylan

              by shaharazade on Sat Aug 22, 2009 at 10:00:22 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

        •  I've been at it 5 YRS. Dems CTRL congress 2.5 YRS (0+ / 0-)

          It's not that I want it now,  I have waited for 2.5 years for something when they had to votes in Congress to pass it but Bush would veto it.  How long should I want, forever?

          Kos: We haven't BUSTED OUR ASSES the last four years to pass bank bailouts and give insurance companies everything they ever wanted. Looks like we did Kos!

          by Churchill on Fri Aug 21, 2009 at 05:46:53 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  who is worshipping Obama? (4+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        kpardue, Miss Blue, GN1927, Churchill

        why do people keep saying that?

        Politics is like driving. To go backward, put it in R. To go forward, put it in D.

        by TrueBlueMajority on Fri Aug 21, 2009 at 10:31:38 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  cognitive dissonance (5+ / 0-)

          On the one hand, people who take Obama's side are taken to task for worshiping him; this is bad because he's not a God, after all, just a man.  On the other hand, the same people, who are angry because he hasn't produced everything they expected in his 8 months in office are complaining because, guess what?--he's not a God, after all, just a man.

          Sometimes I wonder whether the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on or by imbeciles who really mean it. --Mark Twain

          by SottoVoce on Fri Aug 21, 2009 at 12:34:19 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  well said, SottoVoce (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Churchill

            i have been thinking the same thing

            Politics is like driving. To go backward, put it in R. To go forward, put it in D.

            by TrueBlueMajority on Fri Aug 21, 2009 at 12:59:03 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          •  Reneging on his campaign promises (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Dallasdoc, Churchill, sassykathy46

            -- not simply moving slowly but rather moving in the wrong direction -- was not forced upon Obama due to his lack of God-powers. Unless he promised us a bunch of stuff no mortal could deliver, and thus was lying to us.

            And seeking to justify every action that runs counter to promised change is something akin to worship, because it elevates the idea that "the President must be doing the right thing" above a liberal analysis of the things he is actually doing.

    •  To go backward put in R, to stall put it in D (0+ / 0-)

      To move forward - past politics as usual - vote Third Party; there is no other way to break up the two party shell game.

      Anyone who votes for "the lesser of two evils" should expect more politics as usual AND more evil.

      Always remember the first rule of child-rearing and politics: never, Never, NEVER reward adolescents nor politicians for bad behavior just because they can point to someone else whose behavior is even worse than their own - you will either raise felons or put them in office.

  •  Teh sky is falling (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Hedwig, JC from IA

    God is a process not a person

    by Dhirty on Fri Aug 21, 2009 at 09:38:13 AM PDT

  •  94 Was Enraged R's AND Dem Base at Home (16+ / 0-)

    Congressional Dems need to keep that in mind.  

    "The first answer follows the first question asked..." Steve Earle: The Seeker

    by Dana Houle on Fri Aug 21, 2009 at 09:38:28 AM PDT

  •  Democrats are allergic to firing up their base (28+ / 0-)

    and when they crap on their base they lose elections. Why can't they see the obvious.

    The weak in courage is strong in cunning-William Blake

    by beltane on Fri Aug 21, 2009 at 09:39:41 AM PDT

  •  Lets get a line (16+ / 0-)

    On how fast it takes Republicans and media stars to use these numbers to prove that America doesn't want health care reform and hates Obama.

    I say this afternoon.

  •  Which means when the PO passes... (17+ / 0-)

    Dem numbers are going to skyrocket back up.

    All evils are equal when they are extreme. - Pierre Corneille

    by LiberalCanuck on Fri Aug 21, 2009 at 09:39:57 AM PDT

  •  Well it's pretty fucking simple (39+ / 0-)

    Democrats put the Public Option in their platform, talked it up, and now seem to be abandoning it because Chuckhole Grassley might have a temper tantrum if they don't.

    Why the BLISTERED FUCK Democrats think they gain anything what the fuck so ever from caving to hissy-fit throwing infants is beyond my comprehension.

    Stand up or get mowed down!

    Careful, Slippytoad will piss on you!

    by slippytoad on Fri Aug 21, 2009 at 09:40:05 AM PDT

    •  I think that's the point. (6+ / 0-)

      The point is that the dems SEEM to be in favor of a public option, but are willing to surrender on what they think is the best policy without a vote.

      "I'm specificallly allowed to call people names and I don't have to use profanity to do so because I have a vocabulary unlike some of the morans on this site."

      by Inland on Fri Aug 21, 2009 at 09:45:30 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Democrats are treating the left (12+ / 0-)

      like republicans treat the far right. Keep promising prayer in school and to outlaw abortion. But they never do anything about it, when they get the chance. Because they never intended to.

      In reality there are enough corporate senators from both sides of the aisle to hold the status quo. Which is the goal.

      That is why we have to keep making a noise. Make it hard for them to say no to us. The internet gives us a tool we never had before. It gives us a seat at the table, whether we are welcome or not.  We can win this one, we just have to stick it out.

      Today's problems are yesterday's solutions. Don Beck

      by Sherri in TX on Fri Aug 21, 2009 at 09:52:59 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  There are WAY more of us (5+ / 0-)

        Than there ever were right-wingnuts who were committed to keeping prayer in schools.

        There's a difference between your kid not being able to bully the rest of his class into a prayer circle, and your kid not being able to get treatment for diabetes or asthma or cancer.  One is a minor nagging inconvenience.  The other can be fucking fatal.  Which one fires people up for real?

        Careful, Slippytoad will piss on you!

        by slippytoad on Fri Aug 21, 2009 at 10:04:42 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  The internet gives us a tool we never had before. (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Dallasdoc, sassykathy46

        Yes. Factchecking. Instant reply, on the same page, with minimal gate-keeping. One doesn't have to be rich to be an effective blogger; better diversity of points of view.

        Any time I get guff for trusting blogs, I say "follow the money". I better trust a news source that real-time factchecking & archiving the conversations.

        It's not that I don't read mainstream news articles, but often it's from a blog link & discussion that puts it better in context.

        It's only half a victory when Change & Civil Rights don't include all humans

        by julifolo on Fri Aug 21, 2009 at 10:49:10 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  by the gods (5+ / 0-)
    if we blow this because of impatience I will be very pissed off.
  •  Wow (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Mother Mags, tapu dali, Go Kid Hugo

    Congressional GOP up to 12. We're doooomed!

  •  Seems simple to me (21+ / 0-)

    Obama tried to backtrack on the Public Option, and Democrats get pissed as a result.

    Meanwhile, a lot of Republicans think health care reform is dead.

    If we get health care with a public option, expect this phenomenon to go quickly into reverse. If not, expect it to at warp speed.

    •  *When* we get it. Call me (5+ / 0-)

      Pollyanna, but I feel that it's going to happen. It's up to us to make it happen, dammit, and we're doing that by calling congresspeople, donating to firedoglake and ActBlue, showing up at town halls, emailing the WH, buttonholing every living, breathing human being who's willing to be disabused of the lies they've been fed, and getting our asses out on the street on September 13th.

      rant on

      When our elected representatives walk something back that we don't like, our job is to put on the pressure to change their minds. That's how a true democracy works. This is where the energy needs to go.

      In contrast, whining how we've ben dissed gets us nowhere. It's a waste of energy, wholly counterproductive and, quite honestly, I'm frakking sick and tired of hearing it.

      rant off

      Whew. To quote Clark Griswold, "Holy shit. Where's the Tylenol?"

      "Hatred paralyzes life; love releases it. Hatred confuses life; love harmonizes it. Hatred darkens life; love illuminates it." ML King

      by TheWesternSun on Fri Aug 21, 2009 at 10:03:54 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Hmmm (22+ / 0-)

    Democratic activists are ridiculed by the White House and told to shut up and sit down.  Is it so surprising that he is losing support?  

  •  Or maybe it's just that the public... (12+ / 0-)

    believes it was promised change, a turning of the page, but the activities of late look like more of the same in DC.

    •  Maybe this is finally good news for John Edwards. (0+ / 0-)

      But I wouldn't bet that the public is warming to these various theses.

      "I'm specificallly allowed to call people names and I don't have to use profanity to do so because I have a vocabulary unlike some of the morans on this site."

      by Inland on Fri Aug 21, 2009 at 09:42:59 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I do not understand the need... (7+ / 0-)

        for such a comment.  Really.  Sometimes the public can discern when things don't pass the smell test.  What that has to do with Edwards is beyond me.

        •  You're sense of smell is off. (0+ / 0-)

          Sometimes the public can discern when things don't pass the smell test.  

          What was the last thing that passed your smell test?  Besides John Edwards?

          "I'm specificallly allowed to call people names and I don't have to use profanity to do so because I have a vocabulary unlike some of the morans on this site."

          by Inland on Fri Aug 21, 2009 at 09:46:33 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  These comments are quite small... (4+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Dallasdoc, benny05, TomP, The Creator

            and illuminating.  Just because some of what I said about Obama seems to be borne out?  He could have proven me wrong.

            Yes, I am terrible.  I supported Edwards.  Worse, I supported the policies that also seem to be borne out.

            I hope this meets your satisfaction, but have the suspicion that some other comment of little substance except overpersonalization will follow.  I'll pass rather than offer anything further.  There are people here who can actually discuss without insults, even in disagreement, and they are worthy of my time.

            •  I don't know why you pretend to be insulted. (0+ / 0-)

              I know you think your primary predictions have been borne out.  You've been saying that, too, for months.  And you've been wrong for months.  

              Maybe you consider that "overpersonalization", but it seems that you've now made two personal appraisals, one of Obama and one of me.  

              If you don't think your judgment and your own agenda shouldn't be relevant, maybe you should stick to the issues instead of broad, sweeping pronouncements of what people are like.  

              "I'm specificallly allowed to call people names and I don't have to use profanity to do so because I have a vocabulary unlike some of the morans on this site."

              by Inland on Fri Aug 21, 2009 at 10:16:58 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  Not insulted in the slightest (2+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                Dallasdoc, The Creator

                Why should I be?  But let me clue you in.  People read these comments and see the invective.

                I see your comments and pass them by.  I do not think I've ever made a comment to you unless you first responded to one of mine.  I don't look to provoke you in any way.  I would rather avoid you.  You cannot do the same, it seems, and you must make it insulting.  That's a major difference between us.

                You can think what you like about my opinions.  Does not phase me in the slightest.  I find that more people are starting to agree with me, and I am secure in what I have to say, despite your pronouncements otherwise.

                 

              •  You're getting PWN3D here. (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                Dallasdoc

                Rightfully so.

                Best stop digging.

          •  That makes two of us then (5+ / 0-)

            Because I don't understand why you are bringing Edwards up either.

            But since you did, I will add a linky to a civil debate that Mrs. Edwards had with Tommy Thompson on Larry King the other night about health care reform.

          •  How silly. (4+ / 0-)

            You must be very confused.

            They "prefer an America where parents will lie awake at night worried if they can afford health care their children need."

            by TomP on Fri Aug 21, 2009 at 10:08:45 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          •  Interesting (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Dallasdoc

            that you should rip, with such arrogance, the person who was, after all, responsible for the public option as part of the Democratic agenda, in spite of his loathsome fucking around.

            Obama and Hillary had no intention of promoting a public option as a part of healthcare reform until Rielle's fuckbuddy made them do it.

      •  No, no, no. It's good for McCain. (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Amayi, The Creator

        I leave why as an exercise to the reader.

        Those who labour in the earth are the chosen people of God. - Thomas Jefferson

        by Ezekial 23 20 on Fri Aug 21, 2009 at 09:50:57 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Wow. Above (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Dallasdoc, benny05, The Creator

        you said soemthing similar to what citizen53 said, but your personal issues cause you to invoke primary wars.

        Totally unnecessary comment by you.

        Only you can criticize Obama?

        They "prefer an America where parents will lie awake at night worried if they can afford health care their children need."

        by TomP on Fri Aug 21, 2009 at 10:07:51 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  The only thing for the cong. dems to do (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    GN1927, filby, kevin k, Ezekial 23 20

    is vote for the best policy, win, or lose. Or letting the repubs filibuster the best policy.  It's the pre emptive surrender that gripes people.

    I guess the inside the beltway idea is, there's no recovering from a loss, and normally I might agree.  But the current system for insurance, like Iraq, is one of those things we know is not going to go well and there's no sense NOT STAKING OUT YOUR GROUND.

    Hell, Obama became president largely because he didn't take a perspective of this week or this month.  It may have taken a year for him to seem right, and four years for him to seem like a prophet, but it worked for him.

    "I'm specificallly allowed to call people names and I don't have to use profanity to do so because I have a vocabulary unlike some of the morans on this site."

    by Inland on Fri Aug 21, 2009 at 09:41:54 AM PDT

    •  One problem... (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Dallasdoc, The Creator

      is vote for the best policy, win, or lose. Or letting the repubs filibuster the best policy.

      Ummm... the Republicans CAN'T filibuster the best policy, at least not without some help from at least one Democrat.  All 40 of them could push for filibuster, but if they don't get at least one Democrat to join them, the filibuster is dead.

      Which means that it ultimately is on the Democrats.  The only way this bill gets killed is if a Democrat kills it.  The only way a public option gets killed is if a Democrat kills it.

      The Republicans are being complete turds and shouldn't even be a part of this debate, but it isn't Republicans who are jeopardizing healthcare, it's Democrats.

      If Democrats were fully united and wanted a strong bill with a solid public option, they could have it on Obama's desk within weeks of reconvening next month.  The problem is, the Democrats are NOT united, and it is Democratic obstruction that is mucking up the whole process.

      If we blow this, we're gonna get steamrolled in 2010, because as much as the Repukes are working to kill this bill right now, if they succeed, they are gonna turn around next summer and say, "See, they had 60 votes and still couldn't get anything done, they are totally useless!"  And to a certain extent, they'll be right.  Not that what they have to offer the public will in any way be better than what the public has now, but a huge segment of the electorate is low-information, and they are gonna look at the Democratic Party, and they are gonna see a bunch of spineless wieners who do nothing but squabble with each other and fail to get anything done.

      And we'll get crushed.

      Pass the bill with a strong public option, and 2010 could be a great year for us.

      Pass the bill with no public option, and we'll be fighting our hearts out to control the bleeding and keep control of Congress in 2010.

      Pass no bill at all, and watch 1994 happen all over again.

      It will be a bloodbath.

  •  One thing that will help the poll numbers (25+ / 0-)

    Please President Obama, stop the shout-outs to Grassley and others who are enemies of reform.

    Very poor politics to ignore your base and to praise the one's who most actively oppose you.

  •  Déjà vu all over again? (8+ / 0-)

    From NBC's Mark Murray

    As we mentioned earlier today, pundits on the left and right are criticizing President Obama's efforts on health care. Paul Krugman says the message is lacking; Peggy Noonan argues that Obama is losing (or has already lost) the debate; and Eugene Robinson writes that Democrats are lacking energy.

    And all with good reason -- the president's poll numbers are declining, his opponents are invigorated, and the chances for health reform don't seem to be as good as they were a couple of months ago.

    But we've been here before, right?

    Here was Krugman back in August of 2008: "[T]he problem isn't lack of specifics -- it's lack of passion. When it comes to the economy, Mr. Obama's campaign seems oddly lethargic. I was astonished at the flatness of the big economy speech he gave in St. Petersburg at the beginning of this month -- a speech that was billed as the start of a new campaign focus on economic issues. Mr. Obama is a great orator, yet he began that speech with a litany of statistics that were probably meaningless to most listeners."

    Here was Noonan in late August '08 before the conventions (and after Obama's subpar performance in that Rick Warren forum): "Why is it a real race now, with John McCain rising in the polls and Barack Obama falling? There are many answers, but here I think is an essential one: The American people have begun paying attention."

    And here was Robinson around the same time: "If they want to win in November, Democrats have one task to accomplish this week: Snap out of it. Somehow, tentativeness and insecurity have infected a party that ought to be full of confident swagger. It's not that Democrats don't like their odds of winning the presidency and boosting their majorities in both houses of Congress. It's that they are even bothering to calculate and recalculate those odds."

    http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/...

  •  Sad to see Obama turning into Clinton (6+ / 0-)

    I hope he pulls his head out of his ass and quits trying to appease those that hate him and everything he stands for.  Additionally those "greenback dogs" that played dead for eight years while the bush cabal almost destroyed this country and the world should never be elected to any public office ever again. In summary democrats not supporting the "change mandate" are destroying our democracy.

    The world will never forget: the crimes and atrocities committed by the Bush administration!

    by Freedom Loving American on Fri Aug 21, 2009 at 09:43:07 AM PDT

  •  Obama losing his supporters over health care (5+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    irmaly, TomP, filby, quagmiremonkey, Meggie

    Lets hope he learns from it.

    •  And if not lets see how Palin works out (0+ / 0-)

      since many think it's just that simple

      •  Nah. (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        TomP

        He loses support that badly, he won't make it through the primary, and Dean or someone similar will be in the slot.

        Palin is the top pick of 20% or Republicans.  Republicans who are 20% of voters.

        That means her whackjob base consists of 4% of voters.  Whoopee.

        I don't think he'll lose that much support, though.

        Those who labour in the earth are the chosen people of God. - Thomas Jefferson

        by Ezekial 23 20 on Fri Aug 21, 2009 at 09:54:53 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  Agree. There were other avenues to (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Dallasdoc, jonnie rae, tari

      get after torturers and all of that, not that Dems have taken any of them yet.  But this one was the holy grail, and he'd better get back on track.  He has the support for it.
      And, as soon as the average American gets a taste of a strong, viable public option OR something like Medicare for all, they will not want to give it up any more than their grandparents want to give up Medicare.

      It took me three hours to figure out FU meant Felix Unger! -O. Madison In honor of kos' Saturday hate mail-a-palooza

      by Meggie on Fri Aug 21, 2009 at 09:49:48 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Have to agree with Maher again: Dems are (13+ / 0-)

    pussying out big time, at a time when it should be driving through legislation regardless of the opposition.

    Have to wonder if the WH thinks the public is actually smarter than it is, by not putting enough preplanning into message control: also known as truth and facts for gullible citizens.

    Bullshit is the glue that binds us as a nation. George Carlin

    by gereiztkind on Fri Aug 21, 2009 at 09:45:38 AM PDT

  •  Perhaps the only way to make sure (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Mimikatz, Hannibal, kevin k, The Creator

    congressional dems get the picture is to withhold all money for DSCC and DCCC until they pass health care reform that means something.  They can't take the money and the votes and then do whatever they damn well please.
    And, CALL A FEW OF THEM and make sure they understand that this dip in favorability is because they're acting like republicans, not democrats!

    It took me three hours to figure out FU meant Felix Unger! -O. Madison In honor of kos' Saturday hate mail-a-palooza

    by Meggie on Fri Aug 21, 2009 at 09:45:42 AM PDT

  •  Republican Party Favorable = 18% (8+ / 0-)

    It is important to keep repeating that and for the beltway pundits to get this through their skulls.

    For all that we hear about a repeat of 1994 and a Republican revolution takeover of Congress let us keep a few important FACTS in mind:

    1. The GOP is very, very unpopular
    1. The GOP has NO IDEAS TO SOLVE AMERICA'S PROBLEM
    1. In 1990s, healthcare FAILED
    1. The Net Roots will not let healthcare ruin a progressive agenda
    •  The People have consistently made clear (5+ / 0-)

      their disdain for the Republicans. They are now sounding a warning shot to the Democrats: "Get off your ass and hold true to what you promised, or suffer the consequences."

      They don't win until we give up.

      by irmaly on Fri Aug 21, 2009 at 09:59:09 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  GOTV (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      The Creator

      Let's be clear. You're right about the national perception of the GOP. However, certain things mitigate it:

      1. An energized Republican base will come close to the 48% that McCain got.
      1. 2010 is not a national election. GOP  is targeting districts where the Republicans are either the majority or close to it. In a worse case scenario, that could come close to the 40 seats they need to regain the House.
      1. Dem lethargy is what cost it in 1994...There are now fewer Dems as a percentage, because of the rise of Independents.

      Repubs usually outperform Dems at GOTV. That's where we need to be very active participants....

      1. Independents, if pissed at both parties, will stay home.
      •  You missed 2 things ... (0+ / 0-)

        ... 2010 will get A LOT of national attention because the media will hyperventilate over Dem blowback.

        AND ...

        ... you missed the larger number of registered Dems than Repubs which started in 2006 and bypassed Repub voter registration in 2008.

  •  Freakin' old story (8+ / 0-)

    The Dems can't put forward a true, people-friendly health care reform plan that would be easy to describe and sell, i.e. a public health care plan, good quality and affordable to all, because the health industry lobbyists have their claws in our representatives almost as deep as they do the other side. As a consequence, we look weak and indecisive, and our base gets demoralized, and the Republicans get fired up smelling blood in the water.

    Obama's really cruising to put the lie to my sig line . . .

  •  the results only bolster my personal unofficial (6+ / 0-)

    theory that all this doom-saying, gloom and fear mongering, hand wringing, line in the sand, my way or the highway is positively boosting the oppositions mis and di-information campaigns.

    That although the spotlight on where the information emanates from illuminates and angers the left it merely serves to bolster the right's smugness and makes them feel that their by whatever means necessary tactics work extremely well aaaaand stremnghtens their hand in this poker game of bluff and counter bluff.

    The response from the left should be, in my ever so humble opinion, to rise up en masse and swear eternal fealty to their core prinicples no matter how long it takes. That we have Obama's back in whatever steps he can get passed into law, to re-assure the Blue Dogs that more and more of us will vote for them next time, that WE ARE DEMOCRATS AND WE ARE INVINCIBLE.

    Will that happen?  about as likely as it snowing on Labour Day, but I can dream can't I?

    •  Swear eternal fealty? (6+ / 0-)

      Should we start wearing Democratic gang colors too?

    •  Actually, I think the people he's dropping with (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      irmaly, Dallasdoc, TomP, filby

      already have sworn eternal fealty to their core values, and feel that he's the one who is being too centrist and bipartisan-y.

      Those who labour in the earth are the chosen people of God. - Thomas Jefferson

      by Ezekial 23 20 on Fri Aug 21, 2009 at 09:59:54 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  I agree about rising up en mass and swearing (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Detlef, irmaly, Dallasdoc

      eternal fealty to our core principles, but I don't see had that translates into "having Obama's back in whatever steps he can get passed."

      We need to yell at him now so he knows that we DON'T have his back if he sells us out.  I think many people here are too much "Oh, woe is us." "We've lost again." "Obama's sold us out."  I think we need to tell him BEFORE he sells us out to NOT.  More effective that way.  Even if it means calling him "dishonest" now and then.

      Umm, that's PRESIDENT Obama and SENATOR Franken, mr. o'reilly.

      by filby on Fri Aug 21, 2009 at 10:06:10 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  we'll have to see hoiw well that strategy works (0+ / 0-)

        won't we.  I have never been much of a one to shame people into doing what you think they should do, I am more one who examines the reality of each situatuion and believes that the best result is the best result you can achieve.

        The reality of governing is a hell of a lot different from the realities of running.  Neither are black or white but many shades of gray. It's probably a genretrational thing and decadres of negotiating with father, lovers, husbands, lawyers, doctors, children, coaches, teachers, employers, grandchildren, daughters in law, mothers in law and the whole menu of individuals one has to negotiate and  compromise with in order to get you though the night and keep it all together.

        I look back on my life personally at the age of 76 and realise how different it would be had I said 'my way or the highway', it would surely and certainly have been the highway and i would definitely be totally alone now.

        Politics is life as far as i am concerned.

    •  Unconditional loyalty (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Dallasdoc, soccergrandmom, TomP, filby

      gives them Carte Blanche to do what ever they want because there's no means by which to hold them accountable.

      I've been predicting Obama's support would start dropping from the base, and it turns out I was correct in that prediction. They aren't going to Republicans, but they aren't his. If he doesn't fix this he will be another one term president because he will face a challenger from the left in 2012, which will probably siphon enough votes away from him to ensure a Republican win. I doubt Sarah Palin could win over Obama even with the Democratic base abandoning him, but if the GOP fields a credible candidate, even Jeb Bush, they will win.

      I know my favorability rating for Obama has dropped since his administration hasn't strongly backed a public option for health care.

      As I have said before, Obama may be playing 3-dimensional chess, but from my viewpoint it's looking more like checkers every day.

      When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace. -Jimi Hendrix -6.0 -5.33

      by Cali Techie on Fri Aug 21, 2009 at 10:08:49 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I still see the strategy of the chess game (0+ / 0-)

        but must confess that i did not anticipate the possible outcome of being checkmated by his own supporters.

        Ah well, another Bush in the WH  for 8 more years. I'll be dead by then but I feel bad about my grandkids, They had such hope and didn't really understand how fickle the left are, or how shallow and single issue their committment really was.

        I hope I'm wrong and that there are enough of us ordinary hard working middle class folks left out here to keep his back safe in 2012. It is 2010 I am concernd about as i see a distinct possiblity of a re-rerun of 1994.

        It was a great dream while it lasted and i did enjoy the eelction so much and am not seeing anything now I wasn't expecting.

        But I muist admit that my major concern is climate change and that is going to be an even harder sell if the cap and trade uproar is any indication.  If the worst case scenario continues health care won't matter much anyway.  In any event there certainly won't be any ice floes left to put grandma out upon or polar bears to gobble me up. Guess i'll have to settle for the desert and scorpions.

        •  It's not the left that's fickle and shallow (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Dallasdoc

          Its the politicians. Obama campaigned on this issue. He talked a lot about it while he was running. He said his health care proposal included a public option and it was the cornerstone of his plan.

          Now he's backing away from it and those of us who believed him are feeling like we've been punk'd.

          If anyone is being fickle and shallow on this, it's Obama.

          When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace. -Jimi Hendrix -6.0 -5.33

          by Cali Techie on Fri Aug 21, 2009 at 10:28:00 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

    •  Obama isn't a core principle (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Dallasdoc

      He is a politician who either will or will not put his efforts behind our policy goals.

      And what kind of poker do you play where we would be empowering the GOP by refusing to accept Obama's pointless (or corrupt) concessions to their corporate-coddling, reform-killing outlook? If the President's goal truly is strong reform, the most vocal anger in support of that same goal would strengthen his ability to win.

      •  I NEVER said Obama was a core principle. If you (0+ / 0-)

        comment on my actual comment re-read it.  

        I said that Democrats should be loyal to their core principles.

        The obvious dilemma and dichomoy in this statement of course is that there is no consensus of what core principles a Democrat has to be loyal to.

        And I personally don't play poker, and don't believe that the president is empowering the GOP, rather calling their bluff, and calling it quite successfully. Three of the Gang of Six, the three Republicans have in fact come out and stated this week that it doesn't matter what they discuss they will say NO anyway.

        That is quite an achievement on calling them out.  When you are president you can practise your strategy, in the meantime I voted for Obama and trust him and his tactics.

        OK?

  •  Polling Request (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    TomP, The Creator, Ezekial 23 20

    I don't know if anyone's set up to ask these 2 questions of the national electorate.

    If it hasn't been surveyed, I'd like to know how voters rank America's health care system and how they rank America's citizen health in the world.

    I'm convinced that while most people have real health care worries, that a solid majority still imagine that we're #1 in both categories.

    We are called to speak for the weak, for the voiceless, for victims of our nation and for those it calls enemy.... --ML King "Beyond Vietnam"

    by Gooserock on Fri Aug 21, 2009 at 09:49:01 AM PDT

    •  I'd like them to split it out and ask (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      TomP, lilsky

      Why they feel Obama's handling of HCR isn't up to par.

      Lumping the folks who feel he's too centrist and the folks who feel he's too far left together gives a false impression.  We may get the crosstabs here, but out on tradmed, all they do is say '51% of Americans...blah blah blah.' and make it seem like everyone thinks he's being some wacky liberal.

      Those who labour in the earth are the chosen people of God. - Thomas Jefferson

      by Ezekial 23 20 on Fri Aug 21, 2009 at 10:03:26 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  It's the old "Beltway Democrat two-step" (12+ / 0-)

    Step 1. Betray the base on key issues.
    Step 2. Warn the base to shut up because the Republicans are even worse.

    < sigh >

    "Book-burning was by no means a practice confined to the highly educated."--Richard J. Evans, The Coming of the Third Reich.

    by Dump Terry McAuliffe on Fri Aug 21, 2009 at 09:49:24 AM PDT

  •  I bet this gets spun in the press (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    expatjourno, Ezekial 23 20

    to where they say he is loosing support because we don't like the public option.  When in reality, he is loosing support because he is being weak on the public option.  

  •  What matters is communication. George Lakoff (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    seabos84, TomP

    had the answer in his highy recommended diary.  Democrats refuse to listen and pay the price.  It is that simple.

    An idea is not responsible for who happens to be carrying it at the moment. It stands or falls on its own merits.

    by don mikulecky on Fri Aug 21, 2009 at 09:50:15 AM PDT

  •  What Happen To Change ? (5+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    irmaly, Cali Techie, TomP, filby, kevin k

    Pres. Obama has gotten away from his ideas and promises. He needs to remind those is the middle and the crossover republican voters that they voted for change. That change was that while he promised to try to be Bipartisan, that he would not let the Right rule the country with Fear anymore. Trite as it seems these days the , who won the election does matter. I could name 10 ways the rollout of this reform was done, but in thr end Pres. Obama has let the Right back into control in spite of his promises.

    "Against stupidity the gods themselves contend in vain." Friedrich von Schiller

    by SmileySam on Fri Aug 21, 2009 at 09:51:33 AM PDT

  •  It's time to get in the game (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    kamarvt, TomP

    Have some rallies and talking points claiming Republicans want to end Medicare.

  •  The Gang of Six are taking Over (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    TomP, jonnie rae
  •  Impatience? (10+ / 0-)

    I don't think it is impatience that is driving down the numbers, rather, I think it is aggravation with the manner in which President Obama and many Congressional Dems continue to placate the right, who have shown absolutely zero desire to seek any sort of compromise.  They aim to destroy health care reform and couldn't give to shits about bipartisanship, and yet, dems continue to try and appease them.  Enough.  Move on without them.

    "Think occasionally of the suffering of which you spare yourself the sight." - Albert Schweitzer

    by Apost8 on Fri Aug 21, 2009 at 09:54:37 AM PDT

  •  Congressional Dems Above 50% (8+ / 0-)

    It could happen if they pass a bill with a public option.

    Michael Steele says they should just bring the bill to the floor of the Senate for an upperdown vote.  If only his comrades in the Senate would allow that.

  •  Or, perhaps this reflects the MSM memes begun (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    GN1927, mjd in florida, coffejoe, Jerry056

    last Sunday by the AP, and expanded by WaPo and the Atlantic.  They seem to have been effective at getting the progressive blogosphere and cable shows to repeat them all week.  Perhaps they have been equally effective splitting the Dems and pitting them against their own POTUS.

  •  Wee Weed up! (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Pluto

    I can see Obama's telepromter smoking a cigarette behind the stage.  The teleprompter hears Wee Weed up.  The telepromter sighs, throws down cigarette and smashes it out and rolls out in front of Obama to keep him on message.

  •  Nancy Pelosi should not be taking a hit. (8+ / 0-)

    Very unfair.  She's doing her bit to get this done, and with a strong public option.

    Silence is the enemy - Green Day 4330+ dead - Bring them home

    by Miss Blue on Fri Aug 21, 2009 at 09:56:11 AM PDT

  •  When Rethuglican numbers are up, all hope for (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    kevin k, coffejoe, Jerry056

    the future of the general population immediately goes down.  This is NOT good, IMHO.  Somehow the message has gotten skewed in favor of the greedy creeps who have placed us all in a the Second Great GOP Depression.  Somehow that message has got to get back to the truth.  When Rethuglicans are in charge, everything goes directly to hell, unless you're ultra-wealthy and on their side.

  •  this poll is to pro Obama (0+ / 0-)

    Most polls show that Obama at best is about even with independents. You have him +35, doesn't seem reasonable.

  •  Why the Improvement for the GOP? (0+ / 0-)

    But if those poll results are due to a loss of enthusiasm by Democrats, then why does it also show a commensurate and across the board improvement for the Republicans? Are we to believe the GOP increases are due to disgruntled liberals moving to the right?

  •  fork in the road, or who leads who? (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Pluto, Hannibal, Ezekial 23 20

    Here we are. One instant in time.
    To all those pronouncing that this means something inevitable; "dems are wussies", "Obama's through","look what you bigmouths have done", or whatever, please.
    Take a breath.
    It's a tracking poll in he midst of a long one-issue campaign. There are over three years until the next prez election. We will be here again, over and over.

    But what this does show is that we are at a fork in the road. One lane says the base should quiet down and show solidarity with the party leadership.
    The other says the current trajectory followed by policymakers is causing unacceptable collateral damage.

    so, who leads who?

    two factors lead me to the second path;
    The strong consistent insistence on the American plan Obama promised during the campaign, and the virtual impossiblility of the first choice. Asking progressive activists to cave completely on this is like asking Rush Limbaugh to wear tie dye. Ain't gonna happen. We kept all our powder dry to use on this issue. There is no reason to continue. OTOH, it's not so inconceivable that politicians can figure a way to come back around, and still insist they've been consistent.

    FWIW, I like the democracy model where the people lead. look what happened to the system when we collectively took the hands off approach.

    The Republican Party will never die until there is a new political home for racists.

    by kamarvt on Fri Aug 21, 2009 at 09:59:48 AM PDT

  •  BREAKING: Aren't Republicans Dreamy? (0+ / 0-)

    "Just relax and let the hooks do their work." -- Ned Flanders

    by Pangloss on Fri Aug 21, 2009 at 10:02:34 AM PDT

  •  WH - new narrative on offense (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Dallasdoc, TomP

    George Lakoff, HuffPo yesterday

    The narrative is simple: Insurance company plans have failed to care for our people. They profit from denying care. Americans care about one another. An American plan is both the moral and practical alternative to provide care for our people. The insurance companies are doing their worst, spreading lies in an attempt to maintain their profits and keep Americans from getting the care they so desperately need. You, our citizens, must be the heroes. Stand up, and speak up, for an American plan.

    Lou Dobbs is asking someone to assassinate Howard Dean with a stake to the heart. How can this be legal?

    by mrobinson on Fri Aug 21, 2009 at 10:06:36 AM PDT

  •  Boehner makes his move. (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    hhex65, The Creator
  •  Need a Math Degree to See People FEED UP With (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Churchill

    losing and piddle fucking around and BI-part-i-zan-SHIT and excuses from sell outs like rahm and getting f***ed over from sell outs like rahm ...

    ummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

    I know what is wrong!

    I don't have a STATS degree! Then I'd understand!!!!

    LOMG.

    rmm

    Yond Cassius has a lean and hungry look; He thinks too much: such men are dangerous

    by seabos84 on Fri Aug 21, 2009 at 10:07:32 AM PDT

  •  GOOD! (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Dallasdoc, Hannibal, TomP, Jerry056

    The Democratic base should be impatient.

    GET HEALTHCARE DONE OR LOSE POWER.

    Duh.  

    Ice cold water, meet face.

  •  I HATE POLLS (0+ / 0-)

    simplicity is the most difficult of all things

    by RichardWoodcockII on Fri Aug 21, 2009 at 10:09:35 AM PDT

  •  Democrats are hurting themselves (0+ / 0-)
  •  Why do Dems ignore 70% wanting public option? (6+ / 0-)

    We've had two major polls, theNY Times/CBS poll in June 2009 and the recent Survey USA poll showed that support increasing from 72% in June to 77% in August.

    So we have overwhelming public support for the guts of the House's HR3200 bill and the Senate's HELP bill but Democrats act like there no evidence of support.

    Same for the media, we have headlines of "support slipping" and then actual polls show huge support for public option.

    •  that's what happens... (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      GN1927

      When the public debate has nothing to do with the proposal.  Of course the media is too stupid to cover the real story here, that Americans overwhelmingly support "the plan" as outlined by the White House including a public option, but they've started to turn away from saying they support it when its phrased in terms of "President Obama's health care plan," this has nothing to do with their support in principle of the proposal and everything to do with the fact that the public debate has revolved around "death panels," Canada, and Britain rather than what is actually being proposed by Obama and his Congressional allies.

      "You can only protect your liberties in this world by protecting the other man's freedom. You can only be free if I am free."-Clarence Darrow

      by cwech on Fri Aug 21, 2009 at 10:43:57 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  the junta is managing quite nicely (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Churchill

    the ridiculous and sleazy obama freak is playing his roll masterfully as the head of the designated party of failure. Meanwhile the people are gravitating toward an even more vile alternative and an already right leaning country will be delivered to the facists without a shot being fired. Bravo

    I don't care how deep or wide If you got another side Roll muddy river-Hunter/ Garcia

    by mookieblaylock on Fri Aug 21, 2009 at 10:14:37 AM PDT

  •  Ya dance with the ones that brung ya (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Dallasdoc, Churchill

    but so far all Rahm is dancing with the ones that have been hanger-ons.

    That reflects on Obama.

    •  Rahm HAS sold us out for the BlueDog Dems (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Dallasdoc

      how do you feel about that?  The BLUE DOG DEMS did not do ONE DAMN THING to help get Obama elected, but they are getting everything they want, and we are getting  NOTHING

      Kos: We haven't BUSTED OUR ASSES the last four years to pass bank bailouts and give insurance companies everything they ever wanted. Looks like we did Kos!

      by Churchill on Fri Aug 21, 2009 at 10:18:47 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Matt Tiabbi yesterday (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Dallasdoc, The Creator

    I was watching Morning Joe yesterday and noticed how Maria Bartiromo was babbling out the polls against healthcare reform when Matt Tiabbi called her out. WE can ALL find a poll or two that fits our agenda  she continue babbling" on trying to push through her republican talking points, while also trying to drum up fabricated outrage because Matt and others don't blindly praise United States healthcare system. She seemed pissed because the politely dismissed her and being irrelevant.

  •  independents key.... (0+ / 0-)

    Neither major party has a majority of the electorate --assuming you still consider the Republicans to be a major party-- which  means that independent voters hold the keys to the kingdom.

    Democrats will pretty much vote for Democrats and Republicans will pretty much vote for Republicans.

    The rest of us can be won over or lost -- a fact not lost on all of those congresscritters, especially those running for reelection in 2010 -- which is all the reps and a third of the senators.

    Sell us something we want to buy.  Sell it hard and sell it well.  Don't worry what Rush Limbaugh says.  His listeners are not going to come to your side anyway.  

    Sell to the sellable.

    Free speech? Yeah, I've heard of that. Have you?

    by dinotrac on Fri Aug 21, 2009 at 10:19:32 AM PDT

  •  Looks like the FUDsters on both right and left (0+ / 0-)

    have been having an impact.  Congratulations, you unbelievable douchebags.

  •  This is the only poll that give Obama above (0+ / 0-)

    55% of job approval, and it has been consistently higher than almost all other.

    Gallup, for instance, Obama is between 55%-51%. In Research 2000, Obama is between 60%-56%. ????

    Anyway, Obama has been losing support in all polls. That is the only common denominator between all these polls.

    Don't give a damn a/t each & every politician currently alive in the US. Last time i voted for the top part of the ballot was 1972. Never missed SB election

    by Mutual Assured Destruction on Fri Aug 21, 2009 at 10:23:08 AM PDT

  •  most of us can play checkers (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    JC from IA

    far fewer of us chess.

    We all know Obama is smarter than 99.95% of us. But that doesn't excuse leaving us completely clueless as to what is going on in DC.

    Dennis Kucinich was right.

    by lisastar on Fri Aug 21, 2009 at 10:24:12 AM PDT

  •  Keep attacking our own... (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Wildthumb, JC from IA

    And continue to watch the GOP gain in these polls... all of you idiots that keep doing that instead of concentrating on something positive are the cause of this bull.

  •  Corporate Media (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    JC from IA

    Reports on "the state of the Public Option" de jour and some (including me) respond negatively or positively depending on what's written or said.

    If Obama's speech yesterday upset or encouraged you, fine.  But if your response (negative or positive) is based on media reports (or even worse, a blogger's interpretation of the report) think twice about basing your feelings on that.

  •  Obama's approval up 4 points in today's Gallup (6+ / 0-)

    Hopefully, that's a sign that he turned things around late in the week.

  •  Impatient my ass. (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Dallasdoc
    Setting aside the clusterf*** health care reform presents us . . .  a simple glance at the disaster-in-progress that Eric Holder's do nothing incompetence at Justice and the seeming inability of the Democrats to take command of the discourse from a small band of certifiably insane right wing screechers and I think the progressive wing of the party has been MORE than patient.

    "we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military-industrial complex" Dwight D. Eisenhower

    by bobdevo on Fri Aug 21, 2009 at 10:37:59 AM PDT

  •  I'm not sure I agree (0+ / 0-)

    I agree that the "impatient base" theorem is reasonable given the data, but another possibility that doesn't seem to have been considered here is that the Democratic support being bled is coming from conservative Democrats, as much as those folks frustrate the hell out of me (and most people here at DKos) I don't think we can discount them.  Democrats represent a pretty broad group of people with pretty diverse interests, you can't just assume that Democratic support being bled is just "the base."  You may be right, but the data isn't there to make that assertion.  I would want to see an ideological identifier within the broader group of Democrats cross tabbed with Obama's favourability to buy that argument.

    "You can only protect your liberties in this world by protecting the other man's freedom. You can only be free if I am free."-Clarence Darrow

    by cwech on Fri Aug 21, 2009 at 10:40:01 AM PDT

  •  Hey, I want Obama AND a public option. (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    The Creator

    There are far too many "either/or" types around here.

    I say try practicing seeing each other as ALLIES for about five minutes per day. It might work wonders.

  •  it seems the democrats have shifted support (0+ / 0-)

    from the democrats to republicans.

  •  Over-reliance on cross tabs (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    JC from IA

    While the cross-tabs are interesting, there is a huge over-reliance on them. One way of interpreting his poll is that the sampling tended more anti-Obama than last week. That would be why there is an uptick for all things republican and a down-tick for all things dem-Obama. If each of the subgroups came from an independent sample, then the interpretation would be a lot more dire. I think the easiest explanation is:

    1. slight down-tick for dems

    +

    1. jitter-movement of the sample downward, within the margin of error.

    Its important to remember that the cross-tabs are not independent samples.

  •  His true numbers may actually be lower than even (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    TomP

    the D-Kos poll suggests. I would tell any pollster that I "strongly approve" of Obama and that I view him "strongly favorably," since I would not want to contribute to a media drum-beat that Obama is becoming Jimmy Carter.  But if you did the Vulcan Mind-Meld on me, you would see that, like Krugman, I am becoming disenchanted. I support Obama, but I do worry ...

    Next time, let's back Lani Guinier for Supreme Court! Make their effin' heads explode!

    by Egypt Steve on Fri Aug 21, 2009 at 10:53:21 AM PDT

  •  Difficult to argue with any of this. (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Dallasdoc

    He ran as a Progressive, and now feigns surprise when those who supported him demand Progressive leadership.  He has all but closed the books on the crimes of his predecessor, shielded his negotiations with the insurance industry after promising to make them available on CSPAN, and bent over backwards to appease obvious political adversaries.  And now we are dismissed as the "left of the left."

    Yeah, there's gonna be some "impatience," Mr. President.

    "Life is short, but long enough to get what's coming to you." --John Alton

    by Palafox on Fri Aug 21, 2009 at 11:01:48 AM PDT

  •  The President (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Dallasdoc, TomP

    needs to lead on the issue of healthcare.  Right now he looks as if he is waiting on congress and republicans to come to some sort of agreement.  This makes him look weak.  He needs to lead congress and stand firm with the republicans, and his support will increase.

    No one wants to follow a wishy washy president.  He needs to stand firm in the healthcare package he wants and fight for it.  This is how he won the election.  If he leads, they will follow.

  •  The Democratic Party is in trouble (0+ / 0-)

    Even given the vast unpopularity of Republicans, they can't crack 50%.

    The key to exploiting the opportunity they have...

    Get special interest money out of the party

    •  Correction: Blue Dog Corporate Dems in Trouble (0+ / 0-)

      Progressives are fine.  

      We've got the right message.

      We've got an active and growing base.

      We've got the high ground.

      If we work hard at differentiating ourselves from corporate Dems, and are successful at that, the Progressive brand will remain viable.

      A party hit hurts everybody, but it hurts them way more than it does us.

      That is incentive for them to get with the winners and get some good stuff done.

      EVERY US CITIZEN SHALL BE COVERED BY MEDICARE FROM BIRTH UNTIL DEATH.

      by potatohead on Fri Aug 21, 2009 at 11:59:47 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Mistaken... (0+ / 0-)

    You can expect Dems to be patient provided Barry is seen to be working towards the goal of fulfilling the promises of his campaign platform.  But he is failing on every one of them.  Let's start with his now famous acceptance speech at Denver.  "Enough is enough!"  Really?  After lamasting the Rethugs for destroying the economy by creating a bubble culture, Obma has done nothing to rein in and discipline those who created the mess.  His Treasury Secretary is in bed with the Wall St crooks, and as they swallow government bailouts to pay out bonuses Barry won't as much lift a finger.  Take EFCA, after all those promises Barry isn't doing anything about it, and is even quiet when his own party Congressmen trash EFCA.  On DADT, illegal detentions, illegal wiretaps, US Attorney firings, etc, it is yet a procession of failure.  Not only is Obama not doing anything about these odious entities, he doesn't give the appearance of doing anything about it.  Healthcare?  Don't get me started.  Obama may be weak but he is compliant, spineless, worse still actually in favour of all the fatcats gaming the system.  Take the mortgage crisis.  While families like mine struggle to get our mortgage restructured, morgage banks are gaming the system and making it harder for us.  Obama's policies and his intervention are missing in action.  So the fall in ratings is well deserved.  Barry stands throughly compromised and has kicked his base in the shins.  It is time we dumped him and found a new candidate to primary him 2011, and throw hte guy out of power

    •  If I had the mojo to troll-rate ... (0+ / 0-)

      Next time, let's back Lani Guinier for Supreme Court! Make their effin' heads explode!

      by Egypt Steve on Fri Aug 21, 2009 at 11:46:38 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Troll on, wingnut, troll on! (0+ / 0-)

      Did the new load of talking points come in yet?  These seem kind of stale and worn.

    •  Almost everything you say is true (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Dallasdoc

      except the thoroughly compromised part. We elected a very smart and moderate politician, not a leftist ideologue. Still, as unhappy as I am with the course of matters to date (from my perspective as a left-of-center ideologue), at day 213 I am not ready to dismiss Obama as a hopeless centrist.

      Others here have dismissed you as a troll on each of your handful of posts, and I suspect they're right. I am highly suspicious of your recent appearance on the scene, and must suspect that you're here in an attempt to undermine confidence in Obama within a group of (arguably) his most ardent supporters. However, I completely disagree with threats to troll-rate you simply out of dislike for your opinions.

      Pretty much all of your posts have said the same thing in the same negative tone, so how about cut the rhetoric and get down to business: Given your vast discontent with the Presidential status quo, who would you suggest as an alternative in 2012? Who blows your ideological dress up?

  •  Maybe the base will cling to guns and religion. (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    raincrow, TomP

    Because the "No, we can't" White House isn't exactly the "Yes, we can" candidate some of us voted for.

    But the truth is, is that, our challenge is to get people persuaded that we can make progress when there's not evidence of that in their daily lives. You go into some of these small towns in Pennsylvania, and like a lot of small towns in the Midwest, the jobs have been gone now for 25 years and nothing's replaced them. And they fell through the Clinton administration, and the Bush administration, and each successive administration has said that somehow these communities are gonna regenerate and they have not. And it's not surprising then they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations.

    --Barack Obama

    Yeah, yeah, I know all the Obama loyalists will say, "It's only been six months," "Read the Constitution, the president is not a dictator" and "No, he can't."

    The private health insurance business model is not based on making health care more efficient. It is based on finding ways to avoid paying claims.

    by expatjourno on Fri Aug 21, 2009 at 11:30:06 AM PDT

  •  Damn RIGHT!! Dems are down (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    raincrow, TomP, The Creator

    because a very large fraction of them

    ARE NOT ACTING LIKE DEMOCRATS.

    Fix that, and the numbers will rise just fine.

    In this election, at this time, we set the expectation that there would be meaningful, positive change.

    The current struggle on whether or not to sell Americans out to the insurance companies is all about either meeting or failing to meet those expectations.

    Progressives are the only ones standing up and holding the line on those expectations.  

    EVERY US CITIZEN SHALL BE COVERED BY MEDICARE FROM BIRTH UNTIL DEATH.

    by potatohead on Fri Aug 21, 2009 at 11:45:05 AM PDT

  •  He needs to "win" this because.... (0+ / 0-)

    Obama needs to come out of this with some kind of "win"....even if it isn't as good as what we want.

    Because there's an even bigger storm on the horizon. It's the cap n trade Bill.
    The Senate has shelved it, and maybe for a long time (hopefully).

    Not that I don't favor the Bill, but it has basically the same opportunities for the astroturfers, tea baggers and the GOP to make it a very hot issue. Another LIARS FEST for them.

    Obama really made a wrong decision to pass that Bill as his first piece of major legislation....Of course, that's in hindsight.

  •  GOPer gains come from their Torture Caucus. (0+ / 0-)

    Nationalism, a keen desire to strangle democracy everywhere, and the "24" virus.........

    This does go beyond the usual sycophancy:

    -- Kit Bond (Missouri)
    -- Saxby Chambliss (Georgia)
    -- Tom Coburn (Oklahoma)
    -- Orrin Hatch (Utah)
    -- Richard Burr (North Carolina)
    -- Jon Kyl (Arizona)
    -- Jeff Sessions (Alabama),
    -- John Cornyn (Texas)
    -- Chuck Grassley (Iowa)

    Orrin Hatch is a practicing Mormon. He should know better. Using his position and reputation to protect Mortal Sin ???

    These are the mad men who wrote to the AG and demanded that there be no investigation of torture.

    The Torture Caucus.

    Sure, the GOPer Base support such madness.

    Please, read my sig line........................

    Angry White Males + Personality Disorder delusionals + sane Pro-Lifers =EQ= The GOPer Base

    by vets74 on Fri Aug 21, 2009 at 12:34:24 PM PDT

  •  We have to be twice as good on message as the GOP (0+ / 0-)

    Since the MSM is on their side, we simply MUST have a more effective ad campaign, get out in front with the memes, and keep out in front.

    We need to be making huge, uniform, and continuous fun of the deathers, birthers, and (although it pains my trigger finger) gun-toters.

    Isn't there ANYBODY on our side of the fence who can craft us a message we can get behind on health INSURANCE reform (not health CARE reform); the costs to our economy and global competitiveness of NOT having a public option (not the cost OF a public option); the enormous expense, time, and legislative detail required to invent a national network of health coops out of whole cloth instead of, say, expanding our existing Medicare system?

    We need cost estimates as counter arguments. We need to make it clear that we are fighting monopolies that will NOT tamely cede their grip on market share.

    We need short, effective counter-slogans tested on focus groups, just like the Dark Side does.

    We need to buy the best of advertising's best.

    We need wealthy Democrats to step into the breach -- the healthcare monopolies have us at an enormous lobbying disadvantage.

    And we need to fight fire with fire -- putting all the Congresscritters who receive huge sums from the healthcare monopolies in the hotseat IN PUBLIC, publically comparing their campaign contributions to their support of these greedy monopolies.

    Yes -- OY! -- I am handwringing. No, I do not yet see who can move us forward because our party leadership is so addicted to healthcare monopoly money. If they weren't, we would have the public option in the bag by now.

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