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Martin Heinrich's health care Town Hall was yesterday.  Heinrich is our rep for NM-01.  I contributed money to his campaign.  I voted for him.  

After participating in the Town Hall yesterday, I am not so sure he will be a second termer.  I am concerned.

A whole bunch after the fold.

While waiting in line....

The tools for the Heritage Foundation were out in force.

I heard them talking in the two hour line I stood in prior to the event.  I had a group of them in front of me and one behind me.  I had their talking points down before I even entered the building:

  1.  Make it look like Heinrich hadn't read the bill (as if those blockheads read the 1000 plus pages of it)  BTW, Heinrich did have a copy of the bill during the meeting.  I was very pleased.
  1.  Talk about the Constitutionality of health care.
  1.  Everyone already has health care.
  1.  Medicare is failing and costs much more than private health insurance.

An older woman in front of me got into my face about the sign my sister was carrying.  Our conversation went like this:

Tool:  Why is she carrying that sign?
Me:  Because she believes the system is flawed and needs to be reformed. Do you have Medicare?
Tool:  No, but my husband does.  

She took out a sheet of paper with a cost breakdown on it.  She said she pays $4700.00 a year for health care under Medicare.

Me:  Wow.  That is much less than I pay for my health insurance.  My deductible is 3k and after that I pay 20% of covered medical treatment.  If it isn't covered I pay for all of it.  And, that doesn't even include the premiums I pay per month for coverage that doesn't actually cover much.
Tool:  You are lying.
Me:  No, I am not.  If you don't like Medicare your husband should reject it and get coverage elsewhere.
Tool:  crickets
Me:  Why do you not support a public option?
Tool:  I don't want to pay for anyone else's medical care.  
Me:  What if they are uninsured and the only option they have is to go to the emergency room?
Tool:  I don't want to pay for them.
Me":  I guess that means you don't support a public option because you are greedy.
Tool:  I am not greedy.
Me:  Yes, you are.  If your whole reason for not wanting a public option is because you don't want to pay for people to have health insurance that makes you greedy.  Especially since I am paying for your husband's health care.
Tool:  OKAY, I AM GREEDY.  LEAVE ME ALONE.

Her male elderly friend (MEF) chimed in.

MEF:  Right before I die I am going to go shoot as many lawyers as I can.
Me:  What?  You are going to shoot people?  You are going to commit murder?  Why would you shoot lawyers?
MEF:  Because they are all driving up the cost of health insurance.  
Me:  So you are willing to tell anyone in this line who is a lawyer that you want to KILL them?
MEF:  Yep.  

He starts motioning with his arms and yelling "come on over lawyers."

A Heinrich staffer walks by.  I go over to him and tell him that the elderly guy behind me is making comments about shooting laywers.  The staffer looks at me like I have two heads and walks away.

Me:  Do you have a gun on you now?  Because if you do I am going to call 911.
MEF:  No.  I didn't bring it.

The group behind us were listening to our debate so they chimed in.

Woman who looked like Tammy Faye Baker (WWLLTFB):  My husband is an economist.  You don't know anything about the economy.
My sister:  My husband is a PhD Economist.  I know quite a bit about the economy and economics.
WWLLTFB:  Oh she thinks she is sooo smart.  Her husband is a PhD.  So young and stupid.
My sister:  Where do you get your information?
WWLLTFB:  Fox
My sister:  I get my news from legitimate sources.

At this time a hostile woman who claimed to be a nurse got into both of our faces.  Everytime my sister would make a comment, to me, from that point forward, the alleged "nurse" would yell, "BLAH, BLAH, BLAH."

In the auditorium...

We finally got into the auditorium and found some seats.  The Heritage Foundation folks disbursed themselves in little pockets all over the auditorium.  Some of the same group who was behind us in line sat behind us at the Town Hall. The bating started immeidately. As soon as we sat down a middle aged guy (MAG) behind us called my sister a "Socialist."  She engaged him and she kicked his ass with the truth.

MAG:  You are a socialist.
My sister:  No.  I am not a Socialist.
MAG's wife:  He didn't call you a Socialist.  He was just commenting...
Me:  Yeah, he called her a Socialist.  I heard him as clear as day.
MAG:  I didn't call you a Socialist.
Me:  Yeah, you did.  Now back up your name calling.
My sister:  I am actually a Capitalist who believes in a mixed system.  I happen to like my fire department, police department, the FBI, DEA, the librarians and the roads I drive on.  Why don't you like the police department?
MAG:  crickets
My sister to MAG's wife:  Where do you get your information about health care reform?
MAG's wife:  The Heritage Foundation.  Don't you get your information from them?
My sister:  No, I get my information from the people who actually wrote the bill.
MAG's wife:  Well, I home schooled my kids.  

WTF?  Where that last comment came from I have no clue.  

I was hopeful that once the Town Hall got going legitimate information would be passed onto the audience.  If you wanted to ask a question, you had to put your name in a box that was being walked around.  There were roughly 600 people in the audience.  There were more health care reform advocates in the audience than there were Heritage Foundation folks.

The absolute lowest part of the meeting came when a physician, who works in a small New Mexican community, was commenting about his treatment of a young boy with leukemia.  He was booed. Those heartless tools booed a doctor.  A doctor who wasn't an oncologist yet was treating a boy with leukemia because he was the only doctor in his town.  

Heinrich came out strong on many issues.  I certainly didn't question his desire for much needed reform.  He answered questions posed by some members of the audience but, unfortunately, his panel answered most.  I wanted to hear more from him.  

There were no women on his panel. His panel was composed of an ER Doctor from the University of New Mexico Hospital, the director of a local clinic (who stated he does not treat Medicare patients and was a strong advocate for tort reform) and a lobbyist.  Yep, a lobbyist.

The ER Doc was the most informing on the panel. I didn't get much from the clinic director other than he wanted tort reform.

Then there was the conservative lobbyist....

The lobbyist is from one of the most conservative alleged "research institues" in New Mexico.  I was absolutely disappointed pissed off that he put Paul Gessing on a panel discussing health care reform.  Gessing brought nothing to the table except to rile up those in attendance who were shills for the Heritage Foundation.

He wasn't a doctor, he wasn't a nurse, he wasn't even a health insurance administrator. He was a lobbyist who regurgitating the same talking points I had heard in line, and, while sitting in the auditorium.

Why was Gessing asked to be on the panel?  What legitimacy did he bring to the debate?  I have heard Heinrich wanted some "balance."  Bad choice. Lobbyists don't bring balance.  They only bring talking points from those that pay them.  If balance was needed then put an insurance executive on the panel.

I'll borrow a question from a blogger friend of mine,

was Heinrich punked?  

I wonder.

Why are we continuing to pander to these people?  The health care reform we all want, whether it be a single payer system or a strong public option, won't be accomplished this way.  And when Progressive candidates have conservative industry hacks/shills/lobbyists answering questions at a Town Hall meeting, how will we respond?  

Hopefully we won't respond by sitting on our thumbs and biting our lower lips.  I saw way too much of that yesterday.

Originally posted to JaciCee on Sun Aug 23, 2009 at 10:02 AM PDT.

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Comment Preferences

    •  Bless you for having the temerity (10+ / 0-)

      and patience to engage these loons.  One has to wonder what it would take to break through their wall of cognitive dissonance.

      ~War is Peace~Freedom is Slavery~Ignorance is Strength~ George Orwell "1984"

      by Kristina40 on Sun Aug 23, 2009 at 10:09:52 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  It was actually therapeutic. (5+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        devtob, sidnora, Fury, la urracca, Kristina40

        I slept very well last night.

        We don't have to invade Iraq to find terrorists. They're right here killing abortion doctors. - Dr. Warren Hern

        by JaciCee on Sun Aug 23, 2009 at 10:18:12 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  It's the right wing media that makes these people (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        devtob, JaciCee, Kristina40

        believe they are spewing out the "truth".  We must do something about it or these LaRouchies will be taking over the republican party...something that while might be amusing to watch, will be very dangerous for this country.  I've started calling Fox "Fake News" whenever I hear it.  I know it's silly, immature and not-very original, but considering what we're fighting against, we've gotta do something about this blatantly false "news" that these people fill their pea-brains with every day.  Any other ideas?

        •  IMO it starts at your local RW radio station (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          JaciCee, Fury, Kristina40

          and they need to be picketed and their local sponsors boycotted until they stop being paul reveres in reverse for their communities

          fox couldn't exist on its own without RW talk radio to make their crap acceptable by prechewing it all over the country  before the evening news and then reinforcing it after

          fox still has to at least pretend to be balanced and they can't do the mass coordinated uncontested repetition those 1000 stations can.

          the baggers are dittoheads

          ignoring the talk radio monopoly continues to be the biggest political blunder in decades

          by certainot on Sun Aug 23, 2009 at 12:33:17 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

  •  Maybe death panels aren't such a bad idea (6+ / 0-)

    When an adult tries to counter an argument with:

    At this time a hostile woman who claimed to be a nurse got into both of our faces.  Everytime my sister would make a comment, to me, from that point forward, the alleged "nurse" would yell, "BLAH, BLAH, BLAH."

    There is no sense in talking to such shit-for-brains morons other than to say, "What are you, three years old?"

    I'd like to say, "Yes, we should have death panels... all of you stupid enough to believe the shit coming out your own mouths, you'll be first one line."

    Nothing is more aggravating than stupidity.

    ======

    "Sick Around the World"

    http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/sickaroundtheworld/

    Watch it, sent it along to all you know.

    by oxfdblue on Sun Aug 23, 2009 at 10:11:44 AM PDT

  •  Heinrich got bad advice. (13+ / 0-)

    Worse yet, he took it.

    Reading comments on Facebook, someone said they called his office and asked WTF was going on. Apparently, Gessing was on the panel "for balance".

    BALANCE? Excuse me?

    I left a polite but firm comment on his Facebook page.

    Here's what I said:

    Regarding your town hall, I'm glad you're making an effort to reach out to your constituents, but we didn't elect Paul Gessing. There's enough misinformation about health care reform going around, and having him on your panel magnified that about 1,000X. This was supposed to be about you explaining the bill, not "balance". You can't balance out smart, reasonable, well-meaning people like you with liars.

    I'm really irritated.

    Glenn Beck seems the very essence of a one-clown pie fight. His brain wears gigantic puffy shoes and comes with a bicycle horn. -- Hunter

    by Page van der Linden on Sun Aug 23, 2009 at 10:14:54 AM PDT

  •  Clearly, it is impossible to underestimate the (6+ / 0-)

    intelligence of the public at large. If you have doubts, just go to a town hall meeting.

    •  Try not to blame the victims of deceit for (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Fury

      being deceived.  People who don't lie or don't perceive themselves as not telling the truth don't expect other people to lie to them.

      That was the advantage the serpent had over Eve, wasn't it?  And we're still blaming her for taking the serpent's word.

      How do you tell a predator from a protector? The predator will eat you sooner rather than later.

      by hannah on Sun Aug 23, 2009 at 10:23:31 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Eve was tricked. n/t (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Fury, la urracca, phrogge prince

        We don't have to invade Iraq to find terrorists. They're right here killing abortion doctors. - Dr. Warren Hern

        by JaciCee on Sun Aug 23, 2009 at 10:28:09 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  some dittoheads want reinforcement of racism and (0+ / 0-)

        hate and ignorance and get it all day on radio and some are victims in the sense they rely on radio for politics and there are no alternatives in many parts of the state while driving or working.

        i say blame the stations that propagandize their communities and picket the stations and boycott the local sponsors until the media and politicians have to get self conscious about doing anything with their bullshit except throwing it in the trash.

        ignoring the talk radio monopoly continues to be the biggest political blunder in decades

        by certainot on Sun Aug 23, 2009 at 12:39:11 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Another sad element (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          certainot

          is that Heinrich could have used every minute of this 90-minute meeting with his constituents to advocate on behalf of real reform with passion and the facts, by talking like a real human being with feelings, values and principles he is willing to fight for on our behalf. Maybe he should read some George Lakoff.

          As you say, the right-wing fruitcakes gets thousands of hours of air time each week to disseminate their lies and hatred. Here was one 90-minute period that Heinrich could have used to BALANCE that instead of inviting the dishonest and simplistic Paul Gessing to use up precious time with his garbage. Just having him on the panel legitimized Gessing and his distorted views. Talk about giving away the store for some mythic ideal of "fairness."

          Politics and government are about power blocs colliding. We need our Dems to fight for our side now. They should be united and supporting one specific bill and establishing clear and precise lines in the sand -- like about a real public option.  If not now, when?

          It's nice to think we can all sit at a table and reach consensus, but when powerful and wealthy vested interests want to hang on to their money and clout, that's not how change will happen. It starts with Obama and spreads to Dem members of Congress. If HE won't truly commit to a specific reform plan, he provides no cover to Dems in Congress who might want to do so. Instead he kisses the asses of the Blue Dogs and corrupt idiots like Grassley.

          We need leadership and tough tactics now from Obama and the rest. I don't know if they have the stomach for it. FDR didn't get Social Security and LBJ didn't get Medicare and civil rights by being sweetie pies. They fought like hell to get what we now enjoy. It's time for Dems like Obama and Heinrich to wake up and understand that there is no loyal opposition. There are only corporatists protecting their donors.

          Visit my blog DemocracyForNewMexico: NM grassroots politics and activism

          by barbwire on Sun Aug 23, 2009 at 04:18:06 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

  •  The right is good at this stuff (7+ / 0-)

    The right wing is very good at opposition politics.  They've been doing this kind of thing for 40 years.  It's difficult to counter because the right has cultivated scorched-earth politics, and it's very hard to dissuade people committed to that vision.  What the right cannot dominate, it tries to destroy.  It no longer views political opponents as legitimate governing partners.

    Procrastination: Hard work often pays off after time, but laziness always pays off now.

    by Linnaeus on Sun Aug 23, 2009 at 10:15:34 AM PDT

    •  What shouldn't have happened here... (7+ / 0-)

      ... was that Heinrich shouldn't have had Gessing on his panel.

      I'm disgusted with him.

      He only succeeded in confusing people more. He gave the rightwingers tons of free media time... because, you know who local TV showed over and over again?

      Gessing. Lots of him.

      Thanks, Heinrich, but no thanks. I didn't vote for you in order to get this crap.

      Glenn Beck seems the very essence of a one-clown pie fight. His brain wears gigantic puffy shoes and comes with a bicycle horn. -- Hunter

      by Page van der Linden on Sun Aug 23, 2009 at 10:21:14 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I was watching the reporter from (4+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Plutonium Page, barbwire, Fury, la urracca

        the local ABC affiliate (KOAT).  She was only talking with people who weren't wearing pro health care reform stickers.  Maybe further down the line she did but I watched her for a good 15 minutes.

        Where have all the legitimate journalists gone in the 505?

        We don't have to invade Iraq to find terrorists. They're right here killing abortion doctors. - Dr. Warren Hern

        by JaciCee on Sun Aug 23, 2009 at 10:26:54 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  I really loved how... (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        JaciCee

        ... the 'baggers booed the doctor who was helping a child even though it was outside his specialty because he was the only doctor in town.  Really? Booing a doctor trying to save a kid's life because he dared to not agree with you?  That's the appropriate response?

        I know some of these 'baggers want to pretend they are good "Christians" but somehow I think the answer to "What Would Jesus Do" isn't "Boo doctors helping children because they are asking for health care reform."  The Big "J" always struck me as being more of a ... what's the word I'm looking for? Oh yeah.

        Human.

        "We are tired of your abuse. Try to stop us, it's no use." -- Black Flag "Rise Above"

        by desertronin on Sun Aug 23, 2009 at 11:08:38 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  That is when my stomache got sick. (0+ / 0-)

          The realization that fellow humans can be so heartless and mean should make everyone sick.

          We don't have to invade Iraq to find terrorists. They're right here killing abortion doctors. - Dr. Warren Hern

          by JaciCee on Mon Aug 24, 2009 at 05:01:47 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

    •  770 KKOB had them prepped and ready, same in (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      JaciCee

      almost every other state, especially the red ones- it is why many are red

      and it is because the left allows the GOP to have an uncontested radio monopoly that were in this mess and not debating between PO and single payer now

      in NM it's 770 KKOB which reaches 15+ states at night

      ignoring the talk radio monopoly continues to be the biggest political blunder in decades

      by certainot on Sun Aug 23, 2009 at 12:23:48 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  we need to vote with our feet... (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    JaciCee, la urracca

    I can break Sean Hannity by giving him a middle seat in coach. -Wanda Sykes

    by jj24 on Sun Aug 23, 2009 at 10:17:07 AM PDT

  •  My Gosh I Wish I Was With You Standing In That (7+ / 0-)

    line. At my core I am a capitalist. Heck there are even a few topics here I won't touch cause I can seem like a Republican when that isn't close to the case. When I pay a dollar for something I expect to get a dollar in return.

    Well we are paying 2-3 times what other similar nations are paying and getting care that isn't universal. That just isn't acceptable. No business person would find that acceptable. If I am running a business and I have to pay say $5,000/year for each employees health care, where a competitor in Ireland is paying $2,000, well that is fucked up.

    This is the topic I never hear addressed. And those tools from the Heritage Foundation, who like to think they are Capitalist, don't seem to get it.

    "We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence then, is not an act, but a habit." - Aristotle

    by webranding on Sun Aug 23, 2009 at 10:17:16 AM PDT

    •  That is exactly the rub. (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      barbwire, Fury, webranding, Mother Mags

      My rep should have addressed this in the Town Hall.  Instead, he has a lobbyist addressing big government, higher taxes and personal savings accounts.

      There was no mention of how capitalism will benefit from lower health costs.

      We don't have to invade Iraq to find terrorists. They're right here killing abortion doctors. - Dr. Warren Hern

      by JaciCee on Sun Aug 23, 2009 at 10:22:40 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  What other business... (0+ / 0-)

      ...makes its profit by finding ways to not provide the services the customers have paid for?

      Procrastination: Hard work often pays off after time, but laziness always pays off now.

      by Linnaeus on Sun Aug 23, 2009 at 10:26:37 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Well That Is The Problem, Insruance (4+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Linnaeus, JaciCee, barbwire, Fury

        shouldn't be for profit. I now work as a business consultant. I often tell clients to "fire" their worse clients. The ones that pay a price for X and then drains your resources. Want to be waited on hand and foot.

        That is exactly what insurance companies do. I want the 25 year old male that never uses my service but pays us a monthly fee. Not the mother with a child that has Downs and might get breast cancer.

        It is business 101 and why health care can't be for profit.

        "We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence then, is not an act, but a habit." - Aristotle

        by webranding on Sun Aug 23, 2009 at 10:32:22 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  Jobs! It's about jobs! (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      JaciCee, webranding

      come on people, talk it up!

      •  I Think I Read That 85% Of The Profits GM (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        JaciCee, Fury

        makes on each car sold goes to health care and benefits. Gee, wonder why they have a hard time competing against German and Japanese car companies that have government provided health care.

        "We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence then, is not an act, but a habit." - Aristotle

        by webranding on Sun Aug 23, 2009 at 10:42:29 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  Thank you for being there...I had intended to go (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    JaciCee, Fury, Mother Mags

    but simply could not.
    You handled it very well.
    After hearing of your experience, though, I begin to question how well I would have done...my commitment to non-violence might have given way.

  •  I'd suggest that what the woman (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    sidnora, JaciCee, barbwire

    meant when she said she'd home-schooled her children was that she'd controlled their development and expects them to look after her when she gets old, so she won't need public support.

    Sometimes, when you're not sure of something, it helps to say it over and over again to convince yourself that it's right.

    Fact is, we've organized social programs because depending on children is unreliable.  If you even have some, they're likely to move away, get killed in a car crash, die as heroes in a war, or be totally lacking in the skills needed to take care of themselves, much less anyone else.  Fact is that 50% of the adult population in the U.S. is single.  People have been sold on the myth of self-sufficiency to their detriments, oddly enough by the same people who deny that we're a self-governing nation and want to turn government into some alien organization.

    Why would they do that?  It wouldn't be because they are alienated individuals who have nothing but disdain for the American people and want to exploit them, would it?  Why do you think GWB had that perpetual smirk on his face as if he was putting something over on us?

    How do you tell a predator from a protector? The predator will eat you sooner rather than later.

    by hannah on Sun Aug 23, 2009 at 10:19:35 AM PDT

    •  Interesting theory (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      barbwire, la urracca

      my guess was that she was saying that, by home-schooling her kids, she made sure that they only received Heritage Foundation-approved information.None of that dirty socialism they teach in the public (and private!) schools.

      I know that there are people here who do it, but I have some real issues with home schooling, whether on the right or on the left.

      The only thing we have to fear is fear itself.

      by sidnora on Sun Aug 23, 2009 at 11:52:16 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  And I'm sure that.. (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Plutonium Page, sidnora, JaciCee, Fury

    Republicans are inviting advocated of single-payer and the public option to their townhall meetings?

    Right?

    Democrats are so easily punked it's not even funny.

  •  Thanks for the preview (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    JaciCee

    I'm planning to attend a joint health care "forum" Aug.31st which is being hosted by my worthless, brain-dead Rep. Sam Johnson, along with Pete Sessions and "Smokey" Joe Barton, Republicans all.

    I am sure that the Heritage Foundation types, along with other even more rabid right-wingnuts, will be out in force.

    The Democratic Party stands for equality for ALL, freedom with responsibility, and a civil and just society.

    by TexasLefty on Sun Aug 23, 2009 at 10:32:03 AM PDT

  •  Proper response: (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Plutonium Page, JaciCee

    MAG's wife:  Well, I home schooled my kids.

     

    "That's a shame. Count one more child as "left behind.""

  •  The difference (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Plutonium Page, JaciCee

    Your first conversation also shows the difference here:

    We believe that everyone should have access to healthcare, and are happy to pay our share.

    They are selfish, and even the basic notion of contributing to someone else's well-being is offensive to them.

  •  Good diary. (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    sidnora, JaciCee, wahine

    Thanks for the fun read. Thanks for exposing some FOX viewers to some factual information. I'm sure they were able to flush it out of their little brains quickly, but you might have done some damage momentarily and that's a good thing.

    Medicare for all. It's shovel-ready.

    by RustyCannon on Sun Aug 23, 2009 at 10:59:37 AM PDT

  •  just answer 'limbaugh and KKOB are liars' (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    JaciCee

    these are mostly dittoheads who listen to 770 KKOB, ABQ limbaugh megastation.

    in NM the think tanks and lobbyists launder all their lies through 770 KKOB

    anyone want to picket the station?

    ignoring the talk radio monopoly continues to be the biggest political blunder in decades

    by certainot on Sun Aug 23, 2009 at 12:43:43 PM PDT

  •  Thanks for supporting health care reform (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    JaciCee

    despite the dupes and loonies. It is both sad and alarming to read about this kind of self-harming craziness from my safe harbor here in France.

    Book excerpts: nonlynnear; other writings: mofembot.

    by mofembot on Sun Aug 23, 2009 at 12:45:07 PM PDT

  •  Thanks Jacicee (0+ / 0-)

    I finally found the time to read your report.

    Can't help but wonder if Heinrich put that Heritage Foundation lobbyist on the panel as payback to some of his big campaign donors.  Isn't that how politics works these days?


    ````
    peace

     

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