Hi All!
I, probably like a lot of you have a facebook account.. it isn't just for unemployed former Alaskan governors anymore! And unlike a lot of you I am also a member of the DNC board/page/thingamagig on Facebook and have been since the first day I started my account there. Did I check in on it very much? No. Choosing instead to spend more time hanging around here... But, when things started drifting hard over into the armed and weird during the recess I thought I would pop over to the DNC list to see if anything was shaking.
Follow me below the fold to see how that all went....
The first thing that struck me was that there was no Admin listed the job was totally empty. The second thing that struck me was the pair of postings from a Tea bagger and another right winger that claimed that Obama was in favor of the Afghan war so that he could take over the opium trade.... I clicked on "become admin" to see what would happen, figuring that there would be some kind of process or something; I was sadly mistaken in that.
So now I, someone who some of you may know as not being the most diplomatic of persons when dealing with the deranged and deluded; am the new sheriff. Better me then one of the two wingnuts in question I suppose, but if anyone knows somebody in DNC communications let me know how to get ahold of them because the facebook presence for the DNC looks to be in a sad state and could be so much better then it is!
I am going to detail my exchanges with the two wingnuts on the list that occurred after I deleted their postings and banned one of them (I will be banning the other as soon as I find him in the list of members as well but I just have not had the time to sift through 500 plus names). Now this is a bit long and all but trust me I think it is worth posting ALL of it not only for the comedic value that it may bring to some but also for the insight into just what we are up against with a segment of the opposition.
Up first the drug conspirator... No names have been deleted either his or mine, I'm Chris Clark BTW:
Arnold Toussaint August 18 at 3:45am Report
So what you are telling me is....you are not going to allow folks to challenge and debate on the DNC thread ???
I mean I know you people are communists and all...but really. You can't even listen to the other side ???
In all of my years, I have found that folks that refuse to hear an argument...are simply not secure in the smoke that they themself are blowing. This means you people are not strong enough to stand up aginst the opposition. No wonder you people are so anti-war....you are scared of the fight.
Chris Clark August 18 at 4:23am
No.. what I am saying is that I am not going to allow pinheaded remarks like "communist" et al as they are just invitations to a flame war... if you want to debate, fine but you WILL keep a respectful tongue in your head when you are in OUR house!
Capice?
And the reason that anyone is anti-war is because war is a great, though sometimes necessary evil. Iraq was a clusterfuck of incompetence, waste, and totally OPTIONAL.. and as it turns out totally unnecessary and in fact worked counter to our nations strategic objectives.
Me.. personally I love a fight, never backed away from one, never lost one either. Got no problem throwing a punch or taking one.
So do please debate, put forth your ideas and position RESPECTFULLY, and not with the ginned up courage being behind a keyboard grants so many in the internet age. Because back in the old days when you actually had to face the person like a man face to face and fling the kind of poo you've been slingin'?
They would knock you flat on your ass.
You aren't making an argument, you are making a statement and then hiding behind sophistry trying to dress it up AS an argument in a childish (and I do mean childish since it lacks the kind of craft that would fool a mildly precocious 8th grader), to guilt the other party into letting you continue the harangue! And how I know that is true is your incorrect usage of "communist". As is typical of the present American right they don't know communism from their aunt fanny.
Because if you think the American Democratic party is composed of Commies? You are either stoned, stupid or looking to get your ass kicked.. or some combination of the three. Hells bells in an absolute left/right axis they are mildly left of center and would be considered in most other NON authoritarian states the rightwing party as they are further to the right then most if not all major European or for that matter Canadian parties.
So if that looks like a bunch of commies to you? You may be a bit further over on the right then say.. oh I don't know.. Attila the Hun? Perspective matters.. and if a center left party looks commie to you then you are waaaaaaaaaaaaaay to far over on the hard right for this nations own good.
Arnold Toussaint August 19 at 12:54am Report
"No.. what I am saying is that I am not going to allow pinheaded remarks like "communist" et al as they are just invitations to a flame war... if you want to debate, fine but you WILL keep a respectful tongue in your head when you are in OUR house!"
OK, fair enough. But by the same token, I don't want to here the crap from your side, "Bush is a war monger", "Republicans are racist haters..."
If I can't call you names and ridicule you, then it would only be fair to say the same from everyone else on this board.
Capice?
"And the reason that anyone is anti-war is because war is a great, though sometimes necessary evil. Iraq was a clusterfuck of incompetence, waste, and totally OPTIONAL.. and as it turns out totally unnecessary and in fact worked counter to our nations strategic objectives."
Don't you think that is a matter of you people's opinion ??? If you only knew...I will tell you further down in this post. What makes you or your kind think they are the authority ??? It is beyond me.
"Me.. personally I love a fight, never backed away from one, never lost one either. Got no problem throwing a punch or taking one."
You love to fight ??? Never lost one ??? If I just had a dime for everytime I heard that....I have lost many, The friggin Irish busted my nose, don't want to fight no more, but I now prefer technology over savagery. I loike explosives more now. But please don't try to come at me with the tough boy act, in all ove my 47 years, I have found the real tough guys don't brag about being tough. That is so childish, grown men know that there is always a even tougher guy right around the corner somewhere.
"So do please debate, put forth your ideas and position RESPECTFULLY, and not with the ginned up courage being behind a keyboard grants so many in the internet age. Because back in the old days when you actually had to face the person like a man face to face and fling the kind of poo you've been slingin'?
They would knock you flat on your ass. "
Again, then it is only fair to demand equal...respect....if that is what you desire soooooooo much. I am from the old days fool, we will elaborate in a moment. And again, the bring out the "tough guy act". There will always be someone tougher and/or.....(smarter). Many thugs have been taken out by the weaker, but yet strategically superior.
"You aren't making an argument, you are making a statement and then hiding behind sophistry trying to dress it up AS an argument in a childish (and I do mean childish since it lacks the kind of craft that would fool a mildly precocious 8th grader), to guilt the other party into letting you continue the harangue! And how I know that is true is your incorrect usage of "communist". As is typical of the present American right they don't know communism from their aunt fanny.
Because if you think the American Democratic party is composed of Commies? You are either stoned, stupid or looking to get your ass kicked.. or some combination of the three. Hells bells in an absolute left/right axis they are mildly left of center and would be considered in most other NON authoritarian states the rightwing party as they are further to the right then most if not all major European or for that matter Canadian parties.
So if that looks like a bunch of commies to you? You may be a bit further over on the right then say.. oh I don't know.. Attila the Hun? Perspective matters.. and if a center left party looks commie to you then you are waaaaaaaaaaaaaay to far over on the hard right for this nations own good."
First, never claimed to be an intellect, don't even like 'em. Besides...who friggin cares...really ??? Please...you don't need to tell me about what or who anyone is. Much of that is also a matter of one's own opinions. Remember ealier I had to let you in on something ??? You call me "Extreme right wing"....That is an acurate statement. But let me enlighten you son. 18 years ago, I had no children, hated America for the same reasons you all hate republicans, (America). We couldn't allow this nation to keep locking folks up for getting high, low wages, we loved the unions and we thought drugs were a choice not a crime. We were into destroying capitalism, the police were all Nazi helping the rich to oppress others. We believed Christianity was a way to fight wars and feed thier greed. We New that capitalism was evil and without it America would get a weak spine, allowing the world rights that were removed from them primarily by the American Capitalist Machine. But that was then, I was single and part of The Communist Party USA. I did the drugs, I hated the Christ, I hated the American Capitalist. I drank like a fish. So please....for you to sit there and tell me I don't know what I am talking about....you gotta be kidding me. As we speak, The Communist Party USA currently has thier best candidate in the White House and trust me they are gloating and enjoying every moment of the glory. You are trying to tell a former communist what a communist is. Son, you have no clue what we were about. YOU SHOULD TRY GOING TO ONE OF THE MEETINGS. You just might be supprised who you are supporting. But, putting that all aside, you are right, I am extreme, I am a radical, I also used to be the same radical on your side of the stick. Bill Ayres was a hero to us, but I have changed, I have children and now care about what kind of nation they will be left with when we are gone. I know Jesus now and haven't taken a hit of drugs in 7 years. I now see everything in my past, and what kind of a shithole country we were trying to create. Trust me, that is not what I want for my children and my children's children. I tell you now. Let us do an experiment. You folks take part of the nation, we will take another part. Put all your ideals into law in your part, we do the same. Wait 10 yeares and then we come to the table and present to each side's diplomats and sisde by side comparison of our progress, see which side has become more successful. Until then.......ALL OF US ARE JUST BLOWING SMOKE UP THE OTHER ONES ASS !!!! PERIOD.
Now put me back on the DNC blog. I think I know what you want to make you happy, but, do not get pissed of because I may be giving your folks a new perspective that they are not acccustomed to. Live with it, they may learn a thing or 2.
Now put me back in there, it is only fair. We have many liberals that blog on our RNC site, they call old ladies gross names they use the most foul language possible, they are still "in our house" so what makes you so special ??? Just go to RNC and see what I am talking about.
This carried over into another separate thread:
Arnold Toussaint August 18 at 3:46am Report
And just looking at your picture, I can see why you don't like the obambi drug dealer part...you look friggin loaded as we speak.
Chris Clark August 18 at 4:28am
hmmm.. loaded? No, tired?
Yes... of you mostly at the moment.
Arnold Toussaint August 18 at 4:32am Report
So you can't handle the heat huh??? Typical liberal one sided communist does not want the truth to find his commrads ears. What kind of a nation do you think America is if you don't allow free speech ???
Are you really not man enough to handle it ??? Come on, you don't look gay.
Arnold Toussaint August 18 at 4:34am Report
I most definatly won this round, when the contender jumps out of the ring and runs to hide in the locker room....I must hurt him pretty bad for him to hide like a little girl.
Chris Clark August 18 at 4:48am
No, I don't have to allow you to stay on the list given that all you do is fling shit and think that is debate.. ranting and raving like a loon is not debate.. it is just the tedious and sad bleeting of a person who feels so powerless and impotent that they must yell and scream...
Now.. go away, all you have won is a one way trip out of the pool for pissing in it.
Behave like a child and you get treated like a child and you most definitely have been doing nothing but throwing tantrums and insults that you like to call "free speech"... and though you are perfectly within your rights to engage in that kind of behavior.. you are not free to do it here in this venue.
Arnold Toussaint August 18 at 11:47pm Report
OK smart ass, where are these post of me going over the edge ??? You are a pansy ass liar. Everything I did was a acceptable dialog. Just because it may not be in concert to what you like, doesn't make it out of line...fool. Besides, you got nothing anyway, and this is why, 500 members, why do you even waste your time ??? RNC 90,000 plus, you whinning little baby. You simply have no excuse for what you have done.....none at all.
Chris Clark August 19 at 1:38am
Where? From the very start.. Plus you tip your hand with your messages to me with your usage of insults. All your posts were designed to do is fling insults and start a flame war.
So they, as well as you are gone.
Thank you for playing and enjoy your years supply of turtle wax!
Arnold Toussaint August 19 at 5:17am Report
You are a punk. And even though I don't like to, or ain't even that good at it, I would clean YOUR punk ass clock. You ain't tough pussy, it is all in the eyes and I would fuck you up you fagoot bitch.
See ya on the RNC blog....if you got the balls.
Arnold Toussaint August 19 at 5:20am Report
"No.. what I am saying is that I am not going to allow pinheaded remarks like "communist" et al as they are just invitations to a flame war... if you want to debate, fine but you WILL keep a respectful tongue in your head when you are in OUR house!"
OK, fair enough. But by the same token, I don't want to here the crap from your side, "Bush is a war monger", "Republicans are racist haters..."
If I can't call you names and ridicule you, then it would only be fair to say the same from everyone else on this board.
Capice?
"And the reason that anyone is anti-war is because war is a great, though sometimes necessary evil. Iraq was a clusterfuck of incompetence, waste, and totally OPTIONAL.. and as it turns out totally unnecessary and in fact worked counter to our nations strategic objectives."
Don't you think that is a matter of you people's opinion ??? If you only knew...I will tell you further down in this post. What makes you or your kind think they are the authority ??? It is beyond me.
"Me.. personally I love a fight, never backed away from one, never lost one either. Got no problem throwing a punch or taking one."
You love to fight ??? Never lost one ??? If I just had a dime for everytime I heard that....I have lost many, The friggin Irish busted my nose, don't want to fight no more, but I now prefer technology over savagery. I loike explosives more now. But please don't try to come at me with the tough boy act, in all ove my 47 years, I have found the real tough guys don't brag about being tough. That is so childish, grown men know that there is always a even tougher guy right around the corner somewhere.
"So do please debate, put forth your ideas and position RESPECTFULLY, and not with the ginned up courage being behind a keyboard grants so many in the internet age. Because back in the old days when you actually had to face the person like a man face to face and fling the kind of poo you've been slingin'?
They would knock you flat on your ass. "
Again, then it is only fair to demand equal...respect....if that is what you desire soooooooo much. I am from the old days fool, we will elaborate in a moment. And again, the bring out the "tough guy act". There will always be someone tougher and/or.....(smarter). Many thugs have been taken out by the weaker, but yet strategically superior.
"You aren't making an argument, you are making a statement and then hiding behind sophistry trying to dress it up AS an argument in a childish (and I do mean childish since it lacks the kind of craft that would fool a mildly precocious 8th grader), to guilt the other party into letting you continue the harangue! And how I know that is true is your incorrect usage of "communist". As is typical of the present American right they don't know communism from their aunt fanny.
Because if you think the American Democratic party is composed of Commies? You are either stoned, stupid or looking to get your ass kicked.. or some combination of the three. Hells bells in an absolute left/right axis they are mildly left of center and would be considered in most other NON authoritarian states the rightwing party as they are further to the right then most if not all major European or for that matter Canadian parties.
So if that looks like a bunch of commies to you? You may be a bit further over on the right then say.. oh I don't know.. Attila the Hun? Perspective matters.. and if a center left party looks commie to you then you are waaaaaaaaaaaaaay to far over on the hard right for this nations own good."
First, never claimed to be an intellect, don't even like 'em. Besides...who friggin cares...really ??? Please...you don't need to tell me about what or who anyone is. Much of that is also a matter of one's own opinions. Remember ealier I had to let you in on something ??? You call me "Extreme right wing"....That is an acurate statement. But let me enlighten you son. 18 years ago, I had no children, hated America for the same reasons you all hate republicans, (America). We couldn't allow this nation to keep locking folks up for getting high, low wages, we loved the unions and we thought drugs were a choice not a crime. We were into destroying capitalism, the police were all Nazi helping the rich to oppress others. We believed Christianity was a way to fight wars and feed thier greed. We New that capitalism was evil and without it America would get a weak spine, allowing the world rights that were removed from them primarily by the American Capitalist Machine. But that was then, I was single and part of The Communist Party USA. I did the drugs, I hated the Christ, I hated the American Capitalist. I drank like a fish. So please....for you to sit there and tell me I don't know what I am talking about....you gotta be kidding me. As we speak, The Communist Party USA currently has thier best candidate in the White House and trust me they are gloating and enjoying every moment of the glory. You are trying to tell a former communist what a communist is. Son, you have no clue what we were about. YOU SHOULD TRY GOING TO ONE OF THE MEETINGS. You just might be supprised who you are supporting. But, putting that all aside, you are right, I am extreme, I am a radical, I also used to be the same radical on your side of the stick. Bill Ayres was a hero to us, but I have changed, I have children and now care about what kind of nation they will be left with when we are gone. I know Jesus now and haven't taken a hit of drugs in 7 years. I now see everything in my past, and what kind of a shithole country we were trying to create. Trust me, that is not what I want for my children and my children's children. I tell you now. Let us do an experiment. You folks take part of the nation, we will take another part. Put all your ideals into law in your part, we do the same. Wait 10 yeares and then we come to the table and present to each side's diplomats and sisde by side comparison of our progress, see which side has become more successful. Until then.......ALL OF US ARE JUST BLOWING SMOKE UP THE OTHER ONES ASS !!!! PERIOD.
Now put me back on the DNC blog. I think I know what you want to make you happy, but, do not get pissed of because I may be giving your folks a new perspective that they are not acccustomed to. Live with it, they may learn a thing or 2.
Now put me back in there, it is only fair. We have many liberals that blog on our RNC site, they call old ladies gross names they use the most foul language possible, they are still "in our house" so what makes you so special ??? Just go to RNC and see what I am talking about.
Chris Clark August 19 at 11:26pm
Nope..
Arnold Toussaint August 19 at 11:36pm Report
You got balls. Go learn something on our RNC blog.
http://www.facebook.com/...
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/...
Quit being a little girl. Boy, I sure would love to run into you in Alaska.
Chris Clark August 20 at 1:00am
Why would I want to go to the RNC blog? I used to be a Republican way back in the day.. my grandparents were part of the Goldwater for President committee for my home state and there is nothing in the modern republican party for me since they have moved so far over to the right; nothing.
And the implied threat, and open taunt in the last part of your message is supposed to do what exactly...make me let you back on the board?
As to the souring of the public on Afghanistan?
That is to be expected. Even going back as far as WW2 it has been a political reality that the US population will only sustain being at war for a limited time, if you get a chance you really should read the US general staff RAINBOW plans; in IIRC RAINBOW IV it was estimated that the civilian population would only sustain being at war (post Pearl Harbor mind you), for no more then 48-60 months before it started to have grave domestic political impacts. So it is not surprising to me in the least that after 8 years at war, and the extremely sour taste still in the mouth over the Iraq fiasco, that America is getting tired of seeing her sons and daughters coming home in boxes.
Iraq was and will remain possibly the gravest strategic blunder of this nation.
Arnold Toussaint August 20 at 9:18pm Report
And so you are supporting the Afgan invaison ??
I also switched, grew up democrat in Alaska and joined the Communist Party USA in San Diego. But now I love my country and must do everything in my power to save Her. Even if it means I must sacrafic for her. But I have 3 teenage boys, expect to have many grand children and I need to try to keep this country safe and secure for them. I am so sick and tired of the "Third World Invasion" taking the food off my kids table with this communist movement comming out of the former Soviet Block and Africa and South America. I will fight on one side or the other. I am damned sure not going down fighting on the side of the enemy.
Chris Clark August 20 at 11:19pm
Yes I support the war in Afghanistan..always have and always will.
Arnold Toussaint August 20 at 11:29pm Report
Well, well, well, and the difference between Iraq and Afganistan is...............???? Bush and the Fag.
Arnold Toussaint August 20 at 11:29pm Report
Or oil and heroin ???
Chris Clark August 21 at 12:18am
The difference? A war planned out before the election for oil (read PNAC) and a war over the murder of 3000 people by persons shielded by the government of Afghanistan.
If you want to think it is over heroin.. then you are beyond redemption.
Arnold Toussaint August 21 at 12:56am Report
I am beyond redemption...you are reaching for straws in supporting this thing and you know it. I did not support the Iraq thing or this thing because I am not 2 faced. The truth is both these conflicts are bogus, and not our interest and you know that, they were killing folks in Iraq too, but you fought against that, so stop the 2 faced bullshit and stick with what is right. Both of these are total bullshit.
Chris Clark August 21 at 1:11am
Nope.. Afghanistan is a "just war" and Iraq was an unjust one.. Iraq had nothing to do with 911 and the other did.
If you are involved in the murder of 3000 of my countrymen you forfeit your own life. I will continue to support the war in Afghanistan until OBL's head is on display in the Smithsonian.
Arnold Toussaint August 21 at 1:42am Report
Well, at least your cause is nobel. But like Ron Paul said, we need to protect our country from with, keep those people out, then we don't need tp be messing around over there for any reason. And besides, OBL's not in Afganistan, period. THis war is just as unjust as the other one. Why terrorize and kill folks that had nothing to do with it. Furthermore, The Taliban did not take out the towers, so why the hell would you be going after them. You sound just like Bush did.
Arnold Toussaint August 21 at 1:46am Report
Why don't you come on over to the RNC blog lad? I can't see why you would not want to prove you point unless you are simply full of shit and you know it. After all, you won't allow us to present our points to your people. That don't look too good that you cannot allow opposing points of view.
Chris Clark August 21 at 3:40am
The Taliban shielded and gave refuge too AQ.. simple principle at play there, aid my enemy and you are my enemy; that one is as old as time.
Oh I will allow the GOP to present cogent arguments, to present their views and lay them out.. but I will not allow trolling, flame baiting and shit flinging. That isn't an exchange of views or debate that is a verbal altercation.
And I have no interest in the RNC, as has been made abundantly clear by Senator Grassley in his recent town halls he as their representative in the health care negotiations, they negotiated in bad faith.
Trust is the political coin of the realm, and once you can't be trusted? Well then you're dead as dog shit because no one will talk with you, no one will listen and no one will care.
And that is the position your party is in: We no longer care. We bent over backwards to work with your guys, to give them a seat at the table (hell in greater proportion then what they actually deserved by the numbers since the subcommittee is a 50/50 split between the parties and not a 60/40), to the point of pissing off the base of our own party. We extended a hand to try and heal the divide and get the nation working as a team again.
Because we really need to start doing that again, we need to get back to that sense of national unity we had on 9/12 when nobody gave a shit if you were a republican or a democrat, a liberal or a conservative.. all we cared about was that you were my neighbor, my countryman and that is all that mattered. But your guys pissed it away just like they did in the days after 9/12 and god have mercy upon your soul for that, as I will not.
Arnold Toussaint August 21 at 4:15am Report
"The Taliban shielded and gave refuge too AQ.. simple principle at play there, aid my enemy and you are my enemy; "
This is what you may believe, that does not make it true. Are you in the CIA ? You believe everything they tell you ?
" but I will not allow trolling, flame baiting and shit flinging."
This is a matter of your opinion. When I posted my response to a liberal enviro type, I simply made a blanket statement and just because you don't like it....???
"Because we really need to start doing that again, we need to get back to that sense of national unity we had on 9/12 when nobody gave a shit if you were a republican or a democrat, a liberal or a conservative.. all we cared about was that you were my neighbor, my countryman and that is all that mattered. But your guys pissed it away just like they did in the days after 9/12 and god have mercy upon your soul for that, as I will not.
"
We pissed it away ?? Who the heck is inviting every immagrant from these third world countries over here to join unions and get the immagrant support ?? You guys are. Talk about the Taliban, looks like to me you guys are the ones aiding and enabling the enemy from within our own bordes. Shit, you people and your immagrants may just be a larger enemy to the state than the Taliban. After all...your liberal laws are what got them accross the border in the first place. And now your new found king wants to give them rights just like I might get if I stole a car. Come on, who is the bigger enemy ??? The one that hits you, or the one that enables them.
Arnold Toussaint August 21 at 4:21am Report
I will not go on with you. If you can't do this dialog in a public forum, then you ain't saying nothing cause you got no balls to say it to the public.
Very simple, you folks stay in your ghettos, make your laws and rules and leave us be in our communities to do the same. Everything will be just fine. Quit trying to spread your communistic ifeals nationwide. Just take care of your communities and leave us to do the same. In the end, and only then will we see who was right and who was wrong. Because one of us will fail.
So don't write me back unless you are willing to take your argument to the streets. I had the balls to do that, but you were to chicken shit to allow others to hear what I had to say.
And just cause you got some Black/White faggot as your lord and savior, don't think that this is over fool, cause the fire has just been lit, and we are not out of coals by a long shot.
So.....? We have a secessionist leaning supposed former communist whose diplomatic skills even a Klingon would find lacking.. who just so happens to hate the "immagrants"! Yeah..
Now onto the Tea bagger... I warn you ahead of time what you are about to read will hurt your brain! If 'Moonbat reads this I fear for his life because I am quite certain something resembling guacamole is going to shoot out his ears at a certain point!
Joey Miller August 18 at 7:56am Report
Hey Chris just got an email from you about me being a teabagger how it was bad. Well, I just voice my opinion based on the facts. I was a Democrat now turned to an Independent because of the attacks you and the rest of the DNC are putting on people. I would still like to know how I am unamerican for sticking up for the rights of my generation. People don't understand its my brothers and sisters and cousins who have to pay for everything this damn President sends through. He is acting like he doesn't know how to spend money. I guess for future reference don't put down other people because know one is perfect.
Chris Clark August 19 at 2:00am
Did anyone say that you were UnAmerican for sticking up for your rights? No they did not. You seem confused about a couple of things:
- That we are NOT concerned about the deficit. We are, and if you check your history democratic administrations have done far better jobs(as in actually doing ANY job) of paying down the deficit. Whereas under republican ones the damn thing explodes like an IED because they won't cut programs when they cut taxes and/or won't raise them when they add a program. Need I remind you that it was under democrats the last time the nation had a balanced budget and a projected surplus; not an actual one per se since it would be going to paying off totally the existing deficit and it was a republican president and congress that traded that away with massive tax breaks to the wealthy.
- That the TARP program was Obama'.. it was the last act of the Bush administration. The Obama stimulus program was put out there to prevent a near total collapse of the economy.. when you have a projected contraction in the economy of a couple of trillion bucks you can either try to shore up the "walls" by injecting money into the economy or you can watch it all collapse around your head. IN other words when the house is on fire.. and it most definitely was on fire! You do not bitch about your water bill.. you pour on the water!
- That WE aren't going to be paying any of the taxes... WRONG we democrats have to cut a check to the IRS just like everyone else! So we are going to bleed cash if it is called for because the nation needs it.. if you would bleed for your country in war then don't bitch about shelling out a couple of extra bucks at tax time. Most especially if you are one of the people in the upper 2% of wage earners who will see their taxes go up.. you can afford to pay a bit more and not have it remove one mouthful of food from your table or negatively impact your life in any meaningful way! Hell it ain't like those folks are paying their fair share as it is.. Warren Buffet wrote a nice article for the home town paper about how his secretary was being screwed by the republican tax plan: She paid 36% of her income $65k a year in taxes whereas he paid a bit less then 17% of his multi million income.
17%.. which of the two do you think felt their taxes more?
Now as to the tea bag movement itself? I got no problem with real outrage.. and there is real outrage in some of it; but the people that organized it are all corporate suits that don't give a damn about you or me! They only care about keeping that 17% tax bracket so that you and I shoulder the bulk of the burden for bailing them out.
Joey Miller August 19 at 11:59am Report
I am going to tell you this much. People who organized these town hall meetings are not corporate. It is real people who are outraged because Obama has lied over and over and over again to the people. If any town hall meeting is organized it is Mr. Obama's. Again I don't care what party does if they work for the American people. The Democrats aren't doing that. You can say tax cuts but there is always new taxes that come into effect. With the stimulus bill where are the jobs? I ask that. I have applied to more then 40 jobs. Just to be told they weren't hiring people. The President said it would go above 8%. I have to tell you it is way past that. I will say this much Obama and the Dems are just Bigots. You all have one mind set and you can't be talked out of it. The leader of the House has called me unamerican. I have been called a Nazi. Just the tea bagger. I just want to say this if anything I am more american then the President and our leader of the House. I say whats right and I have agreed with some of the things that the dems did. So this is the reason why I have turned Independent.
Chris Clark August 19 at 11:04pm
The money behind the tea bag movement and the town hall ruckus are ALL corporate.. Freedom works, Americans for prosperity etc. are all astro turf groups funded by big pharma, the health insurance industry and a number of others with vested interests in derailing health care reform or generally sinking the administration.
The Democrats have been working for the American people.. have been for going on 80 years now.
As to unemployment? That is a trailing indicator IE it gets better LAST! First the economy has to recover a bit, enough so that we gain confidence IN it enough to spend money.. in response employers hire more people. Speaking of which GM just rehired over 1300 people because of increased demand.
The leader of the house said no such thing! What her quote was is: Those that disrupt town halls to shut down debate ARE un-American. So if you have not gone and done that then you are perfectly fine... I got no problem with you being mad at the dems but I do insist upon it being for something that they have actually done or said. And the people that I hear being called Nazis are the dems.. or haven't you noticed the pictures of the president with the mustache et al?
I have had some discussions with tea baggers while standing in line for a couple of town halls.. and have not found more then a small hand full of them that were not really mad about something else.. hells bells had a really long discussion with one about health care and her idea about what to do about it was actually further to the LEFT then Obama' original one! Hers was eliminating some of the insurance companies worst practices by making them illegal(also part of the Presidents plan BTW), make everyone in America ONE insurance pool(further left then present), so that people could get the best possible rates and buy plans from other states.. and anyone that could not afford to purchase coverage would be popped into medicaid...
A plan BTW that the left of the left would support with applause and vote for... what she was really mad about was the freaking TARP bailout and was just taking it out on other things!
You don't think that we dems are steamed about getting rolled by the banks? Trust me we are.. hell my bank tried to foreclose on my house when they OWED ME MONEY!
Joey Miller August 20 at 9:26am Report
Its funny how I showed up at the tea bagging here and it was ran by the people not no one else. I don't care if you disrupt a town hall meeting. These are AMERICAN CITIZENS. The whole Nazi thing well I am sorry to inform you it was the Dems who brought up having government run health care. Those jobs that GM hired back half will get laid off by September. I do give those representatives positive feedback for going because you know what Amy Klobuchur is to scared to face the American people. We have to do it by tele I think most Dems are scared that they are wrong and they know they are wrong. My question is this what are we going to do when Government is ran by the Government? It is getting really close to that. Hell if I want government medical care I may just move to Canada! I was mad when Bush passed Tarp and I said there is no way that the Recovery Bill would help I was right on both issues.
Joey Miller August 20 at 9:27am Report
By the way WHERE ARE THE JOBS?
Chris Clark August 20 at 12:53pm
The people on the local level may be normal everyday citizens but the MONEY behind them, the ones providing posters in some areas and tea shirts in others.. the people who coined the phrase tea bag party are all the people that you are railing against: The corporate lobbyists. They are playing on your anger over how government has been mismanaged over the years.
You don't think that I'm not nail spitting mad over how government has been run? You don't think that I have concerns (never fear, because once you are afraid of something you are that things bitch, and I'm no body' and nothings bitch), about how the government has done things.. especially after Bush and his warrant less and illegal wiretapping of every single American and his imprisoning without trial of several American citizen'?
The recovery act may not work, it may not have been big enough to dig us all the way out on it' own (Krugman the Nobel prize winning economist was worried bout that), but it sure has done a decent job of slowing the collapse. Because this could be massively WORSE then it is. It's how FDR dug us out during the depression and no matter what Fox news may say on that FDR actually DID dig us out; if it hadn't been for the dust bowl and the jobs eliminated from it that could not be replaced the depression would have ended by '37.
So the recovery act was the only correct choice to make based upon past recessions, Hoover when the depression first started and was just a deep-ish recession went the opposite way economically the bottom fell out of the economy!
Government is never going to be run by the government.. it can only be run by us or the special interests.. and I am working my ass off to make sure it is run by US and not the lobbyists.
Joey Miller August 20 at 2:51pm Report
Well I am sorry to inform you that It was a Democrat who got us into that Depression. He spent just like Mr.Obama is doing today. Only person who got us out of it was a REPUBLICAN! That Republican cut spending all around. He even had black tuesday where he closed down the banks. You say that Government will never be ran by government but that is the reason that 37% of American things are being ran by the Gov't. Health care will take up about 20% more leaving us at 57% of American Ideals are being ran by Gov't. This is one reason I voted for less Gov't. By the way I had my stuff custom made. Did I have to get one nope. The speakers came at a free price. I would rather have Bush try those terrorist then have Obama release them in America. I still remember 9-11-2001 But I don't believe most Dems remember. I also remember that we haven't been attack since then so Mr. Bushes policies must have done good. Now we have the terrorists friend in office. Mr. Barack HUSSAIN Obama. Note this his really name is Barry but changed it when he went to Indonesia. That is what is scary. If I wanted gov't ran health care I would go to Canada. If I want Hitler I would go to Russia. I JUST WANT AMERICA BACK!
Chris Clark August 20 at 11:11pm
From your post you have no idea what America IS... your knowledge of history is horrid.
The President at the time of the great depressions start was Herbert Hoover a Republican.. you can look it up. Black Tuesday refers to October 24, 1929 when the market and banks crashed which was the start of said depression.
And don't talk to me about 911.. my cousin missed dying in it by just a couple of minutes.. he had a job interview there and the subway was late. And they were picking body parts out of dear friend of mines apartment.
Joey Miller August 21 at 12:04am Report
Well I am sorry to inform you it was a Republican who got us out by closing down the banks. Unless now you are saying the history books are wrong?I wouldn't put it pass the Dems to do that. 911 was the day that I said I want to fight against the people who hate America so bad. Those same people we are letting go because they maybe dead in 3 months. Cause of death will be because of another suicide attack in Iraq or one in Afghanistan and then a couple bombs in Israel. Also can't forget about Britian. This thing you call a President who I call Mr.Obama is putting us in DANGER. Haven't you ever seen that sign. Well, there is a big one up right now for America. One last thing it is the Democrats who are saying Bush planted bombs. I am sure you believe that one. Since there fear tatics are pretty real.You mentioned about a fire last time. Well, I am going to say this much if you an American is out of money are you going to go to the store and keep charging to your credit card even though it is maxed out? Another thing my mom had always taught me that money doesn't grow on trees. So you know where it comes from? The FEDERAL RESERVES! Just the people we need regulating our money. Who really cares though just another Gov't Ran Program. Last thing if we keep printing money like we are you know what is going to happen? We will have a new dollar that says socialism. It will have Obamas face on it. You know why? Because the dollar is weeker here in America then it is in Canada! Thats not right.
Chris Clark August 21 at 12:47am
You are so horribly informed... FDR is the one that introduced bank holidays and he was a democrat. You see I actually read my history books, it was kind of my "thing" given that my educational back ground is in strategic studies IE threat assessment and planning.
Hoover.. the Republican president in 1929 the year of the initial crash did not close the banks.. did not do any spending, he instead left the banks open and tightened up federal spending. This resulted in the economy cratering HARD as all capital in the system dried up.. no banks to lend and no one spending deepened the recession into a total economic collapse.
Franklin Delano Roosevelt the Democratic cousin of Republican President Theodore (the guy who gave you the estate tax and national parks), was elected in 1932 and took office in '33.
He is the one that did all the digging out from the depression caused by a decade of Laissez-Faire economic policies used by the previous Republican administrations of Harding, Coolidge and Hoover.
I really, really REALLY suggest you go to your public library and check out ANY history book written in the last 60 years and read up on the depression because you don't know squat about it!
One thing that Hoover did was convert one side of my family to democrats.. up till that point ALL sides of my family were good solid Republicans not having a democratic member since 1860! But my great grand dad got converted by Hoover into a democrat when he order the US army to fire on him and the other bonus marchers.. Now given how bad your knowledge is of the period you probably have never heard of them:
They were the WW1 vets that marched on Washington to petition the government to pay them the bonus money they were promised for combat during the war, money that they were due to get in a few years anyway. But Hoover not wanting to increase ANY Federal spending at all instead ordered Douglas MacArthur to have his troops fire live ammo at them and their families.
That was all it took for gramps.. being shot at by his own government for the crime of asking for money he was owed anyway so that he could feed his kids who were starving!
That is the party you are saying that got us out of the depression.. the ones that crashed the economy and shot at starving veterans, their wives, and their children!
So please don't tell me you know your history because you simply do not.
Joey Miller August 21 at 10:26am Report
Whatever dude. As I said no one believes the history books any more. I am done talking to you because you are just another bigot democrat. I lived as a Democrat being told how my life should be ran. I have really been thinking of moving to Canada since this health care plan is so great! I hope the terrorist blow up more buildings and the Dems will have a lot of family members in them. Then I will ask if releasing men who were dangerous is the right solution for Mr. Obama. I would rather have those rag heads die in misery then kill American people but guess what Obama wants America to get attack. Sarah Palin 2012
Chris Clark August 21 at 3:29pm
Really? You don't believe the history books and you hope that terrorists attack the US and kill more Americans?
Are you sick yet?
Update: here is a link to the group for those that requested it. http://www.facebook.com/...