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  • The Hill:

    Sen. Chris Dodd (D-Conn.) on Thursday penned a letter to Health and Human Services Secretary Kathleen Sebelius demanding an explanation of reports that Wall St. firms received many doses of the swine flu vaccine.

    And you thought it was just the Calgary Flames.

    Allowing the NHL's Calgary Flames players and families to get H1N1 flu shots early has cost an Alberta Health Services manager his job, officials said.

    Hey, I love the (world champion) Yankees, but kids go first. NBC's Robert Bazell (11/5, story 7, 2:35, Williams) notes that Wall Street firms have high risk patients and must sign an agreement to give their vaccine only to them until released to the health department

    Meanwhile, Dr. Thomas Farley, New York City Health Commissioner, said, "Employers are required to sign an agreement that said they're vaccinating people at high risk. And whether those people at high risk are working for one type of company versus another type of company is a judgment we're not going to make."

    but the public isn't buying it. More:

    The Service Employees International Union was more harsh in its criticism.

    "It's bad enough that Wall Street crashed our economy. But purposely endangering the health of millions of Americans during a public health crisis crosses all lines of decency," the union said in a statement.

    Even if warranted (asthmatics and pregnant women who often don't go to doctors work on Wall Street, and not everyone on Wall Street is a rich broker — there are plenty of secretaries, data entry clerks and office cleaners), this distribution plan is about as tone deaf as it comes. Wall Street has to be lower than any other group right now in public esteem and trust. The best intent from public health may have been benign, but this is what happens when you have a lack of transparency and a Rube Goldberg vax distribution system that has to recruit unlikely people aka lack of "public health infrastructure".

    Update [2009-11-6 12:51:15 by DemFromCT]: As long as it goes to high risk groups, I don't care who is distributing the vaccine. But if you are a high profile Wall Street firm, be prepared to justify what kind of groups you give it to and where it goes. Any unused vaccine needs to be returned to DOH/DPH as part of the program.

  • Book 'em, Danno!:

    Milwaukee police have arrested a man accused of stealing a truck carrying 900 doses of swine flu vaccine.

    The suspect is a 38-year-old man with a criminal record. Police are looking for two other men who were seen in the vehicle with him.

  • Hey, get in line like everyone else.

    Concern appears to be rising at the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention about people in lower risk groups cutting in line to receive the limited supplies of H1N1 vaccine. A letter sent today from CDC Director Thomas Frieden to state and local health officers urges that the 35.6 million doses of the vaccine now available first go to people at the highest risk of developing severe disease from the pandemic virus. Although the letter does not detail any specific problems, it pointedly says, "vaccine distribution decisions that appear to direct vaccine to people outside the identified priority groups have the potential to undermine the credibility of the program."

  • Forget mandatory vaccine for health care workers.

    Efforts to require flu shots for health workers in order to protect vulnerable patients are being abandoned by some major health systems because of legal challenges and vaccine shortages.

  • If you won't take swine flu seriously for yourself, do it for your cat.

    The unusual case has riveted pet owners and health officials. Companion animals have been known to contract flu from other species — canine influenza (H3N8) originated in horses, and cats contract avian influenza (H5N1) from eating birds. But this appears to be the first time a cat has contracted influenza from a human. Two pet ferrets, one in Oregon and one in Nebraska, have also tested positive for H1N1, and the virus has also been transmitted between humans and pigs.

    A CDC Q&A on pets is at the end of this link.

  • Great read from Helen Branswell:

    Flu dogma being rewritten by a strange virus no one pegged to trigger a pandemic

  • First Glenn Beck, and now this:

    The American Future Fund, an Iowa-based conservative interest group, will launch ads tomorrow that seek to link the Obama Administration's handling of the H1N1 flu with broader questions about the viability of a public option being included in a health care overhaul.

    The ad begins by noting that in July the Obama Administration promised 120 million H1N1 vaccines would be available by October but only 27 million actually were ready at that time. "Children, pregnant women, seniors line up for nothing," says the ad's narrator before adding that the government had planned to give vaccines to prisoners at Guantanamo Bay. (The White House on Thursday denied talk that Gitmo prisoners were being vaccinated before the general public.)

    "If the government can't run a flu program can we trust them to run America's entire health care system?" asks the narrator at the ad's conclusion.

    Actually, the private sector is responsible for flu vaccine manufacture, and the Feds are distributing vaccine much more fairly than "the biggest purchaser gets the vaccine", which is usually what happens. Or that 2009 H1N1 doesn't include seniors in the high risk group. And that flu vax takes six months to manufacture, and it's now six months almost to the day after 2009 H1N1 was first described in April. But don't tell conservatives who believe in death panels that the real culprit is viral evolution, which is why we are all susceptible to this flu bug.

  • My flu interview (with CDC) on Momlogic
  • In response to a Washington Times editorial entitled "The myth of preventive care", Ken Thorpe defends preventative care as a cost-cutter.

Originally posted to Daily Kos on Fri Nov 06, 2009 at 07:00 AM PST.

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Comment Preferences

  •  Bill Owens (NY-23) anxious to vote for HCR & PO (15+ / 0-)

    and he's our newly elected blue dog from upstate NY

    http://www.watertowndailytimes.com/...

    Bill Owens, the newly elected representative of the 23rd Congressional District, suggested today that he's ready to support the House health care reform bill under consideration Saturday - provided he's legally allowed to do so.

    "As I indicated before, I think this is a historic movement forward,"

    Now that he's getting sworn in today, it looks like he'll get his opportunity to do so.

    I hope; therefore, I can live.

    by tietack on Fri Nov 06, 2009 at 07:04:45 AM PST

  •  Shameful pandering from Chris Dodd. (10+ / 0-)

    It was NYC that handed those vaccines out as part of larger program to distribute the vaccines to doctors who work for large NYC employers like Columbia University, Time Warner, hospitals and yes the big financial firms who employ a ton of people.  The vaccines are restricted to only people at risk--pregnant, immunosuppressed, etc.  Goldman got 200 doses for its 8500 employees, Citi got 1200 for its 25,000.

    Dodd is trying to atone for a career of shilling for Wall Street.

    "[R]ather high-minded, if not a bit self-referential"--The Washington Post.

    by Geekesque on Fri Nov 06, 2009 at 07:05:30 AM PST

    •  However, it's stories like this that will get (0+ / 0-)

      huge play, and the frustration grows in the ill-informed public.

    •  Except we already know Wall Street is predisposed (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      mayim, cybrestrike

      To abuse it.

      I can't say for sure of course, but given my personal experience working for a large company in NYC that does business with these types, their accustom to privilege has yet to be addressed and as such their executives, at risk or not, are going to be the beneficiaries.

      I could be wrong. I doubt it. They could give two shits about "agreements."

      Dodd may be pandering, but this needs to be addressed.

      Slap happy is a platform.

      by averageyoungman on Fri Nov 06, 2009 at 07:14:04 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Dodd knows that this wasn't a CDC (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        askew, Satya1, coffejoe

        or HHS decision.  He knows it was local/state decision.

        Had he read the newspaper stories past the first paragraph, he would have learned that the vaccines are distributed to doctors working at the companies, not the CEO.

        "[R]ather high-minded, if not a bit self-referential"--The Washington Post.

        by Geekesque on Fri Nov 06, 2009 at 07:18:02 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  I understand your point (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Geekesque

          I'm sure he read past the first paragraph. I know he is pandering.

          That said - the doctor's are accustomed to the privilege as well. That's my point. Whether it's Mike that addresses it, or local authorities, or Sebelius, it's an issue and they need to talk about it. I also get your point about the Fox News thing.

          This, of course, is beside the point that if they want to nip it in the bud, they'd be finding a way to get it to people that ride the subway every day, because that's where working New Yorkers are going to get it most often. This is where all my friends that contracted it believe they picked it up. I wash my hands first thing when I get to work after riding. It's a good habit to have anyhow, but most people don't do it.  

          Slap happy is a platform.

          by averageyoungman on Fri Nov 06, 2009 at 07:29:34 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

      •  The Wall Street personnel are more in danger (6+ / 0-)

        of lynching than of swine flu, IMHO.

        Real plastic here; none of that new synthetic stuff made from chicken feathers. Stupidity is a condition; ignorance is a choice.

        by triplepoint on Fri Nov 06, 2009 at 07:48:08 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Wall Street employees are human beings too. (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          DemFromCT, askew, mariachi mama

          I know that's not a popular sentiment here, but they employ people who get pregnant and have small children and who have immuno disorders.

          "[R]ather high-minded, if not a bit self-referential"--The Washington Post.

          by Geekesque on Fri Nov 06, 2009 at 08:01:57 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  Just echoing popular opinion as I see it (0+ / 0-)

            I couldn't get vaccinated due to short supplies, FWIW.

            Pregnant women especially are at risk and should AND DO get highest priority.  It just should not be seen that they get extra-special consideration for being employed by the giant vampire squid.

            Real plastic here; none of that new synthetic stuff made from chicken feathers. Stupidity is a condition; ignorance is a choice.

            by triplepoint on Fri Nov 06, 2009 at 08:08:38 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  But, they're not getting special treatment. (3+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              DemFromCT, askew, mariachi mama

              A pregnant office manager at Goldman isn't getting any more preferential treatment than a pregnant Columbia University professor or a pregnant Time Warner sales rep.

              "[R]ather high-minded, if not a bit self-referential"--The Washington Post.

              by Geekesque on Fri Nov 06, 2009 at 08:26:41 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  that's exactly right n/t (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                Geekesque

                "Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies." - Groucho Marx

                by Greg Dworkin on Fri Nov 06, 2009 at 08:32:10 AM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  Hate to thread jump, but could you possibly (0+ / 0-)

                  comment on the CDC's week 43 H1N1 report and maybe update with some of these new charts and graphs.

                  2009-2010 Influenza Season Week 43 ending October 31, 2009

                  Do you think these trends might indicate there is a chance we've reached at least a temporary peak of infection and we can worry a little less about the vaccine shortages?

                  Also, could you comment on the California study that showed obesity as a significant risk factor for severity of H1N1 illness?

                  Thanks, as always, for all your work and attention to health matters.

              •  Indeed... (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                Geekesque

                They're distributing limited vaccine supplies at campuses all over, and the profs and staff are at the bottom of the totem pole.  

                Pregnant anyone can get the vaccine, but beyond that the distribution seems to be very student-centric.  Which makes sense because professors aren't the ones going to frat parties and boinking undergrads (not the pre-tenured ones at least.)

              •  But getting 75% of doses requested (0+ / 0-)

                as opposed to the public sector seeming to get far less has poor optics, at the very least.  Mind you, I WANT all folks at risk to get innoculated whether they be the Obama daughters, or pregnant women working for Goldman or their cleaning service.  Or undocumented workers in the underground economy for that matter. It's just that it APPEARS that there is special treatment given, and that leads to class warfare of the ugliest kind.

                My doctors' practice received just 25% of their seasonal flu dose order and NONE of the swine flu.

                Have to get a cite, but the University of Minnesota (or maybe of Wisconson--have to look it up) which held the record last year for most flu innoculations given in a single day (according to the NYTimes yesterday) got nada this year.  

                Real plastic here; none of that new synthetic stuff made from chicken feathers. Stupidity is a condition; ignorance is a choice.

                by triplepoint on Fri Nov 06, 2009 at 08:43:41 AM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  Goldman got 4% of the doses they requested. (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  askew

                  They asked for over 5000, got 200.

                  "[R]ather high-minded, if not a bit self-referential"--The Washington Post.

                  by Geekesque on Fri Nov 06, 2009 at 08:54:09 AM PST

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  I heard differently, but could well (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    Geekesque

                    be mistaken.  If so, I apologize.

                    Real plastic here; none of that new synthetic stuff made from chicken feathers. Stupidity is a condition; ignorance is a choice.

                    by triplepoint on Fri Nov 06, 2009 at 09:08:40 AM PST

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  Link: (0+ / 0-)

                      http://www.businessweek.com/...

                      To the list of hundreds of schools, hospitals, and community health centers that have received limited allocations of the H1N1 swine flu vaccine, you can now add some of New York's largest employers. In the past week or so 13 companies, including Citigroup (C) and Goldman Sachs (GS), have begun receiving small quantities of the vaccine, according to city health authorities.

                      Citigroup has been supplied with 1,200 units and Goldman with 200, says Jessica Scaperotti, press secretary for the Department of Health & Mental Hygiene. The agency has so far approved orders by 29 employers—including 16 that have yet to receive any vaccine—after they were cleared by the U.S. Centers for Disease Control & Prevention (CDC). Big employers that have received or are scheduled to receive vaccine so far include Time Warner (TWX), JPMorgan Chase (JPM), Memorial Sloan-Kettering, New York Presbyterian Healthcare System, and New York University.

                      According to the city, Goldman has requested 5,300 doses. Only the company's two Manhattan locations are eligible to receive the vaccine because Goldman's other regional offices lack on-site health units, the spokesperson said. So far, only the 85 Broad St. location has received vaccine. The spokeswoman said the company knows of no employee who has fallen ill with swine flu, "but obviously you have to be prepared."

                      "[R]ather high-minded, if not a bit self-referential"--The Washington Post.

                      by Geekesque on Fri Nov 06, 2009 at 09:11:27 AM PST

                      [ Parent ]

                •  But who cares about the "optics"? (0+ / 0-)

                  We have to stop seeing this as some kind of political football.  It is a vaccination program.  

                  Should we be changing the vaccine distribution because of its "optics"?  Should we stop administering vaccine in the workplace because of how this "APPEARS" when one of the workplaces is an investment bank?

                  I want our vaccine distribution system to be as politically insensitive as possible.  I don't want health officials to withhold doses from Chicago or Hawaii, simply because that may be construed as favoritism among conservative bloggers.  I don't want them ignoring one group or another based on how it might play out politically.  I don't want them to neglect one workplace or another because a specific company name is associated with globalism or Wall Street.

                  I'm astonished anyone thinks that the distribution should be changed or people fired based on how it appears.  Perhaps this is just a flare-up of the blogging classes, for whom political nuance is their stock-in-trade.  

            •  "should not be seen"?? (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Geekesque, susanala

              This mirrors text I read in the article:

              ...this distribution plan is about as tone deaf as it comes. Wall Street has to be lower than any other group right now in public esteem and trust.

              Tone deaf?  Esteem?  In the previous article people complained about how the "optics" look bad.  
               
              But why the Hell should we care how it could be "seen"?  We're talking about a vaccination program here.  They should distribute vaccine on campus and at the workplace.  Should we change the distribution model to something less efficient because of how it could be "seen"?  
                 
              The goal is to immunize as much of the population as quickly as possible, to stem a real outbreak of real influenza that kills real people; I couldn't give half a crap how the vaccination program could be "seen" by people sensitive to political symbolism.

    •  I couldn't agree more! (4+ / 0-)

      Among other things, at least at some of their locations, both of these companies operate in-house day care centers for their employees' children.  Are they NOT supposed to get vaccinated simply because their parents work for who they do?

      •  They can get vaccinated... (0+ / 0-)

        the same way that everyone else is getting vaccinated.  Why are Wall Street firms getting preference over every other firm?  Is Wall Street the only place with at-risk employees?  No one brought supplies of vaccine to my company.

        "War is a cowardly escape from the problems of peace." - Thomas Mann

        by Tom Paul on Fri Nov 06, 2009 at 07:43:21 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  You've been misled--they're not getting (5+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          askew, Caj, leevank, mariachi mama, SomeStones

          special treatment.

          NYC is distributing them to DOCTORS who work at large employers.  Columbia University got them.  Time Warner got them.  Many hospitals got them to give to their own staff.  

          Most of the recipients under this aspect of the NYC program are not financial institutions.

          "[R]ather high-minded, if not a bit self-referential"--The Washington Post.

          by Geekesque on Fri Nov 06, 2009 at 07:47:31 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

        •  Whoa (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          askew, Caj, Geekesque

          I disagree with this.  My daughter's school sent home a letter saying the vaccines will be offered by her school.  I see nothing wrong with Wall Street companies that have daycares offering the same.

          •  As I said in my other comment... (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            riverlover

            I can't get it for my daughter because her pediatrician CAN'T GET ANY.  It is being sent to Wall Street firms where who knows who is getting the vaccine.  It is being sent to Walmart where anyone 19 and over with $30 can get the vaccine.  But an asthmatic teenager can't get it because there is no supply available.

            "War is a cowardly escape from the problems of peace." - Thomas Mann

            by Tom Paul on Fri Nov 06, 2009 at 08:50:56 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  "Who knows who"? (0+ / 0-)

              It is being sent to Wall Street firms where who knows who is getting the vaccine.

              Yeah, who knows who those people are.

              I fail to understand what you mean by this.  Are you upset that it might be given to pregnant women who are evil, or of low character?

              We have a small inventory of doses being given out to our student population.  And Lord knows who, right?  I can't get a jab, and there they are at the college giving them out to who knows who.

        •  That would be horrible. (4+ / 0-)

          The right thing is to distribute vaccines at schools, on campus and in the workplace.

          If everyone had to travel to a government building to wait in the same line and get vaccinated the same way, to make some sort of symbolic remark about equality and the relative importance of the public and private sector, it would exacerbate the outbreak.  

          As I already said:  a vaccination program is not a medium for making ideological statements.

        •  Mass Transit (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          leevank

          Any idea how many people travel to downtown Manhattan (where Citi and GS have their headquarters) on a given day via mass transit?  Several hundred thousand at least.  It's a major transit hub for Long Island, Jersey, upstate NY, and of course Mr. Dodd's CT.  Oh, and today is the Yankees ticker-tape parade with people coming from all over the region.

          One sneeze and everyone gets infected.

          I think this whole uproar is stupid.  It's 200 out of 31 million vaccines.  Have we all lost our minds?

    •  And not in schools (0+ / 0-)

      And NYC originally planned not to give the vaccine to schools but was forced to when the public outrage started.  

      The problem with giving it to the Wall Street firms is that there is no guarantee that it will end up where it is supposed to.

      "War is a cowardly escape from the problems of peace." - Thomas Mann

      by Tom Paul on Fri Nov 06, 2009 at 07:40:54 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Not true, according to this story: (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        askew, Satya1

        http://www.google.com/...

        Last month, the city began offering vaccine to schoolchildren, as well as the offices of pediatricians and obstetricians that asked for it. Scaperotti said only half of the pediatricians in New York City have requested vaccine

        "As the vaccine became more available we expanded it to adult providers," Scaperotti said. She called the large employers "a great avenue for vaccinating people at risk."

        "[R]ather high-minded, if not a bit self-referential"--The Washington Post.

        by Geekesque on Fri Nov 06, 2009 at 07:45:54 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  As I said... (0+ / 0-)

          they reversed themselves:

          http://www.nydailynews.com/...

          "War is a cowardly escape from the problems of peace." - Thomas Mann

          by Tom Paul on Fri Nov 06, 2009 at 07:56:43 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  That had nothing to do with the employer (0+ / 0-)

            distribution program.  

            A day after saying middle and high school kids would not get priority for swine flu vaccines, the city Health Department quickly backpedaled Tuesday.

            Officials now say any schoolkid who goes to one of the special weekend clinics opening next month will get the vaccine - and everyone else will be evaluated on a "case-by-case basis."

            The department changed its tune after saying Monday the city "won't turn anyone away" at the clinics.

            "Weekend vaccine clinics ... are for students, not the public," department spokeswoman Jessica Scaperotti said yesterday.

            "If an at-risk adult comes to a weekend [clinic] and there are no lines, staff will determine if that individual will receive a vaccine on a case-by-case basis," Scaperotti said.

            Swine flu vaccine is recommended for children and young adults between the ages of 6 months and 24 years, pregnant women and people with chronic health conditions that put them at a higher risk of complications.

            Scaperotti said nurses at clinics won't ask kids for identification to prove they're students in the five boroughs, leaving the door open for abuse of the system.

            Elementary school children will receive the vaccine in school in a program that kicks off today in 128 of the city's smallest grammar schools.

            Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/...

            "[R]ather high-minded, if not a bit self-referential"--The Washington Post.

            by Geekesque on Fri Nov 06, 2009 at 07:59:49 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  Of course it does... (0+ / 0-)

              with the vaccine in short supply, any amount sent to employers is less available at the clinics.  Without guarantees that the supply sent to Wall Street firms is being used ONLY for those at risk, the supply should never have been sent there.

              "War is a cowardly escape from the problems of peace." - Thomas Mann

              by Tom Paul on Fri Nov 06, 2009 at 08:47:19 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  there are no guarantees vaccines sent (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                askew

                anywhere are going to be used in exact compliance with HHS restrictions.

                "[R]ather high-minded, if not a bit self-referential"--The Washington Post.

                by Geekesque on Fri Nov 06, 2009 at 08:55:38 AM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  HHS issues guidelines anyway, not absolute laws. (2+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  DemFromCT, Geekesque

                  The final indication listed for classification as high H1N1 risk is ... clinical judgment of the provider. Translation: If patient X technically doesn't qualify, but you feel she has risks the rules don't recognize, give her the shot.

                  _Karl Rove is an outside agitator._

                  by susanala on Fri Nov 06, 2009 at 09:05:05 AM PST

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  that's absolutely true (0+ / 0-)

                    the discussion is about the population, not the individual case.

                    "Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies." - Groucho Marx

                    by Greg Dworkin on Fri Nov 06, 2009 at 09:44:27 AM PST

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  Class members are individuals. (0+ / 0-)

                      But each class is a population category.

                      The only way to put force of law behind a risk classification scheme is to strictly limit vaccine clinics to public health departments, make people bring various forms of documentation, etc.

                      I don't even want to think about that distribution bottleneck.

                      _Karl Rove is an outside agitator._

                      by susanala on Fri Nov 06, 2009 at 10:10:14 AM PST

                      [ Parent ]

    •  So Citi has 1200 (0+ / 0-)

      children, pregnant women and/or asthmatics working for them in their NYC offices?  That's a stretch to believe, especially when my cousin who lives in NYC has not been able to find a dose for her 5-year-old daughter.

      "In this world of sin and sorrow there is always something to be thankful for; as for me, I rejoice that I am not a Republican." - H. L. Mencken

      by SueDe on Fri Nov 06, 2009 at 10:46:40 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Right-wing ads with lies in them? (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    AggieDemocrat

    Gosh! I never heard of such a thing.

    Can we vote on this, already?

    by kitebro on Fri Nov 06, 2009 at 07:08:46 AM PST

  •  You should be denied the vaccine (4+ / 0-)

    just for loving the Yankees. :-P

    Does this internet make me look fat?

    by pattyp on Fri Nov 06, 2009 at 07:08:51 AM PST

  •  I didn't want the shot (6+ / 0-)

    As a 40 year old male in good health, I figured other high-risk people deserved it.
    But my 3 year old son was another story.  So Mommy took him in and got him vaccinated, and the Health Department said "To be safe, both parents should also get vaccinated."
    So I got the last swine flu vaccination out of 400 doses delivered to the Covington County, Alabama Health Department: at least until they get another shipment of vaccine.  

    I'll put on my glasses.... and tell you how sweet your ass is. (w/ apologies to Señor Bega)

    by mHainds on Fri Nov 06, 2009 at 07:09:52 AM PST

  •  D.O.H:sign a piece of paper!?!? (0+ / 0-)

    :Big freakin deal
    Sar-box says the CEO signs in blood on penalty of Jail that their financial statements are accurate.

    So why aren't Stan O'Neil and Charlie Prince in Prison??

    The odd thing is the number of wall street doses seems to correspond to the number of Senior Managers at the rank of Managing Director and above at these companies

    Afghanistan:Graveyard to empires-It's not just a bumpersticker

    by JML9999 on Fri Nov 06, 2009 at 07:09:55 AM PST

    •  It's actually given to the doctors at those (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      mariachi mama

      companies.  it's also a number that corresponds to the number of pregnant women and others in high risk categories.

      This is a lot of plain old dumb demagoguery.

      "[R]ather high-minded, if not a bit self-referential"--The Washington Post.

      by Geekesque on Fri Nov 06, 2009 at 07:13:24 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  Don't forget to X2 the amount for (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      wa ma

      kids under 9 - new CDC guidelines say two of them spaced out over weeks to get full immunity.  So if they have an onsite daycare that cuts total doses available unless they figure another shipment is coming.

      "Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter, and those who matter don't mind." --- Dr. Seuss

      by kfred on Fri Nov 06, 2009 at 08:14:00 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  The WashTimes' logic (0+ / 0-)

    If people use preventative care, then they might use Social Security and Medicare longer (i.e., live longer.)

    I wonder if the Times cares about the CBO's report on the Boehner healthcare unform.

    •  If someone goes to a doctor (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Geekesque, mayim, Hill Jill

      and they find high cholesterol that gets treated with diet and/or meds, that's cheaper than having that person land in the hospital with a major heart attack -- or worst case scenario, dying of that heart attack and sticking his wife and kids on welfare.

      Civility is the way of telling someone to go fuck themselves in such a way that the someone agrees it probably is a good idea.

      by Cali Scribe on Fri Nov 06, 2009 at 07:19:33 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  True, but if he gets treated (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        kfred

        he'd collect more Social Security to be sure (say $150,000 over 10 years), and would be at risk for getting some chronic illness when he is older (say $1 million of treatment) as opposed to dying of a massive heart attack (say $150,000 of treatment because it's all over and done in 24-36 hours.)

        Left unsaid is how the 'pro-life' WashTimes thinks people living longer is a Bad Thing.

  •  Teabaggers who believe that HCR is part of (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    mayim, susanala, Ezekial 23 20

    a "National Socialist" agenda will be unlikely to understand or care that viral evolution and private enterprise have conspired to reduce vaccine availability. That's not to say that promises of more availability by the government were well reasoned.  

    It's not a campaign anymore, Mr. Obama.

    by huntergeo on Fri Nov 06, 2009 at 07:13:42 AM PST

  •  The irony is too much (10+ / 0-)

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/...

    More ominously, a man standing just beyond the TV cameras apparently suffered a heart attack 20 minutes after event began. Medical personnel from the Capitol physician's office -- an entity that could, quite accurately, be labeled government-run health care -- rushed over, attaching electrodes to his chest and giving him oxygen and an IV drip.

    snip...

    By the time it was over, medics had administered government-run health care to at least five people in the crowd who were stricken as they denounced government-run health care. But Bachmann overlooked this irony as she said farewell to her recruits.

    What could be more democratic than together owning the most magnificent places on your continent - Carl Pope - Sierra Club

    by DJShay on Fri Nov 06, 2009 at 07:16:31 AM PST

  •  I understand the problem with manufacturing (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    ydice

    but the distribution problems are not so easily forgivable.  They've had months of time, priority exposure in the media and lots of money to get this right.  Logistics are tricky but they're not rocket science.  They had everything they needed to get this right and plenty of warning.

    •  this sounds almost "Bushian" as it plays out. (0+ / 0-)

      Hope things improve soon.

      "There's been a little complication with my complication"

      by dash888 on Fri Nov 06, 2009 at 07:25:03 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  What did 'they' get wrong? (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Geekesque, Ezekial 23 20

      And, who are 'they'?

      •  Is this a serious question? n/t (0+ / 0-)
        •  Damn straight it is. (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Geekesque

          Let's here it.

          •  You can lead a horse to water... (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            DemFromCT

            They are the public health infrastructure who have been given billions of dollars to prepare for this and to plan for distribution.

            As if you didn't know already.  But then again, maybe you don't live in an urban or surburban area and have three kids in a place where H1N1 is widespread, has been widespread for a couple of weeks, and all the flu shot clinics in your county have been cancelled, and your pediatrician has to put an automated message on their system saying that they still don't have the vaccine.

            For example, this was three weeks ago:
            Camden and Burlington Counties postpone flu clinics

            And the clinics are still cancelled (as of my last check yesterday).  Burlington county may have a few clinics now since a healthy 17-year old dropped dead.

            Oct. 15th:
            H1N1 flu vaccine: Who is getting what when?

            More:
            CDC To States, Cities: Make Sure Swine Flu Vaccine Goes To Neediest

            Demand for vaccine overwhelms flu clinics

            Congress to Investigate Alleged Impropriety in H1N1 Vaccine Distribution

            And now officials in Massachusetts are saying the same thing that pediatricians in New Jersey have been saying for weeks.  Hint:  It's not a local issue.

            Flu Hits High School Hard
            Another mystery is where the vaccines are.

            Ron MacLaren, the spokesman for the Martha’s Vineyard Public Health Coalition, a group comprising the various town health agents and representatives of the hospital, Vineyard Nursing Association, emergency management and the Wampanoag tribe, said there should be more available by now.

            "The CDC [Centers for Disease Control, which coordinates the manufacture of the H1N1 vaccine] is reporting over 12 million doses have been produced, and orders for only 10 million. So if they have it, then how come we can’t get it?" he asked.

            "The state Department of Public Health keeps sending us updates and saying there’s more vaccine on the way, but they haven’t got all they were supposed to get.

            "It seems mostly to be a distribution problem now, not one of supply."

            And just the icing on the cake:
            H1N1 has been widespread in CT and NJ for weeks now.  Then we hear stories about how Wall St. firms in NYC got thousands of doses, and some of the most expensive private schools in Pennsylavania got the vaccines early.  Meanwhile, pregnant women and kids in NJ wait.

            •  So, is the answer to my question in there (0+ / 0-)

              somewhere?

              One person's unsubstantiated opinion about a distribution problem in one locality is scarcely persuasive.

              So, again, who is "they", and what are "they" doing that is wrong?

              And, how, exactly, would your distribution plan differ from what has been put in place by the countless state and local governments who are in charge of the distribution?

    •  Who, what, when, where? (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Geekesque

      The federal government has distributed all available vaccines to each state.

      So I hope you are not putting this on HHS.  Its just like T.A.R.P. or the stimulus, once it is issued by the feds, its up to the LOCAL governments as to where to distribute within their state.

    •  truth is (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      riverlover, joanneleon

      you can't build health infrastructure in a few months.

      Adult docs ususally do not immunize (see tetanus shots) and they are not set up to simpy immunize huge numbers of people. pediatricians are, but can't do seasonal and swine simultaneously. You can't just flip a switch and turn it on. states are sorely pressed re the budget. One western state talked about eliminating their DPH last year to save money.

      As we predicted, as we now know. it's why we have been harping on infrastructure.

      "Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies." - Groucho Marx

      by Greg Dworkin on Fri Nov 06, 2009 at 09:36:02 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  You assume that the virus grows well in eggs (0+ / 0-)

      and apparently it doesn't. No one could have forseen that, etc. Titer of the egg-derived virus was lower than expected. Therefore, fewer doses ready to go. Just wait for a real pandemic. H5N1 can't be grown in eggs, it kills the embryo. Must be done in tissue culture, which is done for some atypical vaccines now, like rabies.

      Americans, while occasionally willing to be serfs, have always been obstinate about being peasantry. F. Scott Fitzgerald, the Great Gatsby

      by riverlover on Fri Nov 06, 2009 at 09:51:00 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  I understand the problem with manufacturing (0+ / 0-)

        as I said in the comment you responded to.

        It's the distribution problems I am frustrated with, since there was plenty of warning, money and resources.  The distribution seems to be even more of a problem than the manufacturing problems and delay in supply.

  •  Pig Swine Flu (0+ / 0-)

    the virus has also been transmitted between humans and pigs.

    Back when we read reports of Afghanistan's zoo quarantining its pig over swine flu fears, plenty of people mocked the Afghans for fearing transmission of flu from pigs to humans, just because it's the "swine flu". Now they just seem prudent.

    "When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro." - HST

    by DocGonzo on Fri Nov 06, 2009 at 07:19:35 AM PST

  •  spelling (0+ / 0-)

    A small point regarding the last bullet point--the word is preventive, not preventative. It is correct in the title of the editorial but not subsequently.

  •  Whoa, it's green! (0+ / 0-)

    Sorry, just logged on for the first time today.

    This American Future Fund ... ugh. I'm so fucking sick of this shit. Why can't we have normal political discourse in this country? Why can't people who are opposed to a bill, like, talk about what they don't like about the bill, as opposed to making shit up?

  •  swine flu (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Geekesque, Satya1

    overreactions all around.

    you'll likely be fine without the shot, if you're a healthy person. gets your kids vaccinated and maybe your cats (lol). but - if it was going to wipe us all out, it would've happened months ago. freaking out is unnecessary.

    •  Months ago? (3+ / 0-)

      Flu season runs from October through spring getting progressively worse in the winter.

      "War is a cowardly escape from the problems of peace." - Thomas Mann

      by Tom Paul on Fri Nov 06, 2009 at 07:37:36 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  it was worse (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        pullbackthecurtain

        in mexico during the summer. so i'm not sure that holds up. i think you'd be better off with a regular flu shot. just my opinion (not a doc).

        •  agree, partially (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          fivefouranonymous

          it's not a biblical proportion flu virus.  But certain groups are at higher risk to this virus than typical seasonal strains making this one a bit more nasty than most years.

          As for the seasonal flu shot-there's no real point.  H1N1 IS the seasonal this year.  There's no other strain going around.  Normally I'd encourage people to get their seasonal vaccination but since H1N1 is the only thing going around I'd say feel free to skip the seasonal shot.  You're not protecting yourself from anything and you're not endagerning anyone by NOT getting it.

          "All this marching up and down and cheering and waving flags is simply sex gone sour." -Julia, 1984

          by pullbackthecurtain on Fri Nov 06, 2009 at 07:58:19 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

    •  missing one point (3+ / 0-)

      you'll likely be fine without the shot, if you're a healthy person

      important point you're missing is the people who AREN'T healthy that come into contact with YOU.  That's half of the reason we vaccinate.  It's not just all about yourself.  It's about the people who share the world around you.

      that being said, healthy people who don't come into frequent contact with high risk persons shouldn't be getting the shot at this time anyway because of the shortage.

      "All this marching up and down and cheering and waving flags is simply sex gone sour." -Julia, 1984

      by pullbackthecurtain on Fri Nov 06, 2009 at 08:01:26 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  That is an important point (2+ / 0-)

        and something else to keep in mind is that the vaccine shortage will probably persist throughout the season.  By that I mean, even when they have finished producing and delivering all of the H1N1 vaccine the CDC ordered (250 million), they'll be 50 million short of what they'd need to vaccinate everyone (and maybe even more considering younger kids need two doses).

        I don't know what the herd immunity threshold is for novel H1N1 but it is 92-94% for pertussis.  If we need to have 92-94% of the population vaccinated to achieve herd immunity for H1N1 we'd need more than 280 million doses.

        So I think people who are healthy and don't have close or frequent contact with high risk individuals and people who are fairly certain they've already had the virus should assess how great their individual need for the vaccine is relative to the needs of others.  

        Also, they're getting a clearer picture of who the high risk are.  

        Obesity appears to be a risk factor on a par with pregnancy for developing complications from an infection with pandemic H1N1 influenza, according to the most comprehensive look yet at swine flu hospitalizations.

        About a quarter of those hospitalizations have been for people who were morbidly obese, even though such people make up less than 5% of the population. That fivefold increase in risk is close to the sixfold increase observed in pregnant women, according to the report published today in the Journal of the American Medical Assn.

        When the merely obese are included with the morbidly obese, they make up 34% of the American population. Yet they accounted for 58% of the hospitalizations in the study.

        Obesity puts swine flu sufferers at greater risk, study suggests

    •  UH, in case you've not noticed (0+ / 0-)

      the ones getting sick and dying are the younger, and healthier people in the population.  Not going to wipe us all out, but there will be a considerable number of people who thought they were safe, getting a cough, then pneumonia, then kidney and liver failure.  This scenario is happening all over the country and in the state of Indiana, most of the people dying are formerly healthy 5yo to 35yo contracting the disease with no antibodies.

      •  I don't know about Indiana specifically but (0+ / 0-)

        across the country it is not the healthier people that are getting the sickest from H1N1.

        Hospitalized Patients with 2009 H1N1 Influenza in the United States, April–June 2009

        ABSTRACT

        Background During the spring of 2009, a pandemic influenza A (H1N1) virus emerged and spread globally. We describe the clinical characteristics of the patients who were hospitalized with 2009 H1N1 influenza in the United States from April 2009 to mid-June 2009.

        Methods Using medical charts, we collected data on 272 patients who were hospitalized for at least 24 hours for influenza-like illness and who tested positive for the 2009 H1N1 virus with the use of a real-time reverse-transcriptase–polymerase-chain-reaction assay.

        Results Of the 272 patients we studied, 25% were admitted to an intensive care unit and 7% died. Forty-five percent of the patients were children under the age of 18 years, and 5% were 65 years of age or older. Seventy-three percent of the patients had at least one underlying medical condition; these conditions included asthma; diabetes; heart, lung, and neurologic diseases; and pregnancy. Of the 249 patients who underwent chest radiography on admission, 100 (40%) had findings consistent with pneumonia. Of the 268 patients for whom data were available regarding the use of antiviral drugs, such therapy was initiated in 200 patients (75%) at a median of 3 days after the onset of illness. Data suggest that the use of antiviral drugs was beneficial in hospitalized patients, especially when such therapy was initiated early.

        Conclusions During the evaluation period, 2009 H1N1 influenza caused severe illness requiring hospitalization, including pneumonia and death. Nearly three quarters of the patients had one or more underlying medical conditions. Few severe illnesses were reported among persons 65 years of age or older. Patients seemed to benefit from antiviral therapy.

    •  swine flu is about as bad (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      fivefouranonymous

      as the seasonal flu.  My doctor didn't test me (they're not testing in my area for non-emergencies) but he is quite sure I have it.  According to my personal doc and our pediatrician they are not seeing alarming reactions in most people.  However, they are seeing a higher incidence of respiratory problems and a higher incidence of complications for a few folks.

      My take away was when my doctor told our family to rest and take fluids, we should be extra vigilant about doing that.  (Two of us have mild asthma.)

      Another thing for people at risk to consider is that if they get symptoms, contact your doctor quickly and have her or him consider Tamiflu.

      Given that on a couple of days 50% of my daughter's class have been absent due to sickness, I'm thinking at least 70% have already contracted swine flu.

      They get vaccinated next week.

  •  Not just "Book 'em, Danno," but Harry Lime Lives. (0+ / 0-)

    That story's right out of The Third Man.
    Disgusting.

    neca politicos omnes; deus suos agnoscet.

    by khereva on Fri Nov 06, 2009 at 07:32:52 AM PST

  •  Conservatives have conspiracy theories about H1N1 (0+ / 0-)

    vaccine?

    Hell, if you need info on conspiracy theories about H1N1 vaccine, just talk to BarbinMD.

    She has a doozy for ya.

  •  Can't get it for my daughter (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    riverlover, Quicksilver2723

    My 17 year old daughter is asthmatic so we took her to the doctor to get the shot.  He was supposed to have it but he couldn't get any.  But Walmart has plenty but they won't give it to anyone under 19.  So my daughter who is in a risk group can't get it but ANYONE 19 and over with $30 in their pocket can get it at Walmart.  Isn't capitalism a wonderful thing?

    "War is a cowardly escape from the problems of peace." - Thomas Mann

    by Tom Paul on Fri Nov 06, 2009 at 07:33:48 AM PST

  •  Hockey Teams (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Tom Paul

    Probably do need the virus more than most.  They travel across the continent and they have lots of intimate affairs of a casual nature.  That's a pretty fast way to spread a virus.

    "They don't think it be like it is, but it do. " Oscar Gamble, circa 1980

    by Spider Stumbled on Fri Nov 06, 2009 at 07:36:22 AM PST

  •  Should Sebellius and Napolitano be fired? (0+ / 0-)

    Apparently actual vaccine distribution is a missing link in all the pandemic and biological attack planning, something that all the planning never addressed.

    Who is in charge of distribution?  None of the US stories mention who made the decision to give Wall Street brokerages vaccine while millions of pregnant women and kids under five go without.

    Who is in charge?  Why wasn't control of vaccine part of the billion$ spent by national security and medical establishment for biological attack and pandemic planning?

    Some one should be fired.  Sebelius and or Napalitano are the people in charge.

    •  No. this story has been way overblown. (5+ / 0-)

      To repeat:

      1.  HHS gives the vaccines to states, who then figure out how to distribute it.
      1.  In NYC, the first to receive it were school children, pediatricians and OB-GYNs.
      1.  NYC has a program that distributes the vaccine to at-risk people through their employer if there is a doctor or medical staff on site.  The doctors must promise to give the vaccine ONLY to people in high risk categories, like pregnant women and the immunosuppressed.
      1.  Goldman Sachs got 200 vaccines for its 8,500 employees in NYC.  Citi got 1200 for its 25,0000 employees.  That's between 2-4% of their respective workforces.  Considering that NYC has already gotten 800K doses, they are not getting the vaccines at any higher rate than the general population.

      "[R]ather high-minded, if not a bit self-referential"--The Washington Post.

      by Geekesque on Fri Nov 06, 2009 at 07:53:34 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Way underblown is more like it. (0+ / 0-)

        Clinics all over the US are closed or have massive lines with no vaccine for even them most extremely vulnerable (pregnant women and under 5 kids) and we have Wall Street banks (or any private employer for that matter) getting vaccine before the public.

        It is a public health disaster and one that it is reasonable to expect Sebelius and or Napalitano to have seen coming had the asked simple supply questions months ago.

        •  What part of "the states distribute (5+ / 0-)

          the vaccines" is unclear to you?

          Again, it is not 'the banks' getting the vaccines.  It is the human beings who are in high risk categories who work at the banks that get the vaccines.

          As they should.

          "[R]ather high-minded, if not a bit self-referential"--The Washington Post.

          by Geekesque on Fri Nov 06, 2009 at 08:06:42 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

        •  Again, you're confused on jurisdiction. (4+ / 0-)

          The feds distribute shots to the states.  The states distribute them as they decide.  Sebelius and Napolitano don't tell NY state how to distribute their shots.

          And it takes a lot of time to ramp of production of vaccines.  They don't have enough yet simply because there hasn't been time to produce enough under the current privatized system.  Unless, of course, you're agitating for nationalization of vaccine manufacturing plants.

          And again, the rightwingers have been fighting against flu preparedness, and voting against it, from the beginning, constantly calling it 'overblown' and implying it was just liberals trying to scare people.

          You want to do something constructive, work to vote out the idiot Republicans who worked to defund flu-preparedness, helping to make this situation worse.

          Those who labour in the earth are the chosen people of God. - Thomas Jefferson

          by Ezekial 23 20 on Fri Nov 06, 2009 at 08:08:33 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  Saying "Do'in heck of a job Sebbie and Nappie". (0+ / 0-)

            Your comment reminds me of Brown blaming Louisiana and New Orleans for US Federal failures during Katrina.

            Vaccines are a Federal program and are not just "given to the states" to do with as they please any more than school lunches or terrorist attack dollars.

            The reason Napalitano has been involved makes just that point, a pandemic is a national security issue similar to biological attack.

            They had months of high profile publicity to prepare for this and it is a disaster.

            They should certainly have known about the production problem and planned for it months ago. They didn't even know about it. They should be fired for that alone.

            Once it became apparent, then they should have acted to make sure distribution was adjusted accordingly which again they did not do.  

    •  Say what? (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Geekesque, Satya1

      Distribution is from the Feds to the States.  After that, the States handle it.

      Do you mean to say there is something wrong with the way the Feds are getting the vaccine to the States?

      What is that, exactly?

      •  Saying distribution a national security disaster (0+ / 0-)

        Federal and state government problem.

        The Feds run the show from developing the vaccine to mfg. to distribution.

        All the current problems from lack of supply to distribution to banks vs. pregnant mothers and kids go directly to the two people in charge, Sebelius and Napalitano.

        •  Oh, so you are suggesting we nationalize (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Geekesque, Satya1

          manufacturing of vaccines.

          While I might agree that that would be a good idea, it simply wasn't politically possible.  The rightwingers are already frothing about socialism where none exists.  Just imagine actually trying to implement a socialist takeover of vaccination production.  They'd be in armed revolt.

          Those who labour in the earth are the chosen people of God. - Thomas Jefferson

          by Ezekial 23 20 on Fri Nov 06, 2009 at 08:10:34 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  It is NATIONALIZED. Vaccines are Federal program (0+ / 0-)

            From R&D to identify virus to mfg and distribution of the vaccine.

            •  Bullshit. (4+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Geekesque, Satya1, susanala, Ezekial 23 20

              You haven't got a clue.

            •  The Feds don't own vaccine production facilities. (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Geekesque, Satya1

              Private companies manufacture to order, then deliver to the gov't, who then redistributes to the states based on an algorithm primarily on population.

              Those who labour in the earth are the chosen people of God. - Thomas Jefferson

              by Ezekial 23 20 on Fri Nov 06, 2009 at 08:33:55 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  Feds run it. It is a Federal program. (0+ / 0-)

                Contracting production out and having paid for that production, Sebelius should have known about the production problem sooner and dealt with it vs just letting things roll along to the point that Wall Street Banks get vaccine while kids and pregnant mothers a few blocks away do not.

                •  And done what? Wave a magic wand? (5+ / 0-)

                  Even knowing that production is going slower than you want doesn't imply you can actually do anything about it.

                  There are a very limited number of producers of vaccines around the world, and every freaking country is in need of both this and the seasonal vaccines.  Thanks to the magic of free market capitalism, there is generally only enough production capability in existence for the seasonal, because excess production capability beyond demand isn't profitable.

                  So despite a sudden need there isn't magically more production capacity.  And there is nothing the federal gov't can do to magically make it so.  They could indeed set up their own facilities, but it takes a year or two to build the facilities, recruit and train staff, etc, even if you ignore the cries of 'socialism'.  We don't have that time, so we're stuck with using what existing facilities give us.

                  I hate the pony phrase, but you're indulging in magical thinking here.

                  Those who labour in the earth are the chosen people of God. - Thomas Jefferson

                  by Ezekial 23 20 on Fri Nov 06, 2009 at 08:48:58 AM PST

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  Done their job. Notify public. Have a plan. (0+ / 0-)

                    Sebelius and Napalitano were surprised by lack of vaccine when it is their responsibility to produce and distribute it.

                    Had this been a real national disaster, a true pandemic or biological attack, it is clear both Sebelius and Napalitano would have been even more of a liability.

                    1. They should have announced shortage vs. shortage surprising them.
                    1. They should have announced revised distribution plans based on shortage and made it happen at every level.

                    That didn't happen. They are in charge. They should take responsibility and resign or be fired.

                    •  You need to focus on the Roosters (0+ / 0-)

                      One major problem in the production of the H1N1 vaccine is that the product is grown in fertilized eggs.  To fertilize an egg, you need a rooster.  The vaccine production system depends on a small group of specialized chicken farmers who contract to produce a given supply of fertilized eggs -- last spring, they had met their contracts for the production of the seasonal flu vaccine, and that was before H1N1 was identified, and decisions were made to produce a massive batch of H1N1 vaccine.  

                      Because the eggs produced for the food markets are not fertilized, the need for maintaining the roosters after they had produced the first batch of fertilized eggs was not there.  The Chicken Farmers who produce these specialized eggs have contracts with soup factories that use the roosters after they have done their (cock-a-doodle-do) thing.  No reason to keep feeding the Roosters expensive corn just in case they need to get back to work.  

                      The upshot was that about two weeks in the production process was lost, once a decision to make a mass batch of vaccine was made.  It was lost because they had to round up more roosters so as to produce fertilized eggs for the H1N1 production.  

                      Once you understand this, and comprehend how the essentially economic decision to not feed roosters after they have performed their task, is an element in the whole production process, then at least one of the reasons vaccine output has been slower than anticipated will be clear.  The importance of getting cellular based production systems (2 years off at minimum) up and running should be clear.  Until that point, vaccine production is dependent on Mother Nature, and the economic interest of Chicken Farmers to keep elements of this part of the production system up and running.

        •  Go learn something about the topic,why don't you? (4+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Geekesque, mariachi mama, Satya1, susanala

          You clearly don't have the first idea what you're talking about.

          The Feds decide how much vaccine is likely to be needed, and allocate it to the states as it becomes available.  In this case, the Feds also helped to streamline the initial development period for the vaccine so it could go into production sooner than the normal time-line.

          Now, if you have a specific issue with how the vaccine is being allocated to the individual states, then let's hear it.

          If you don't, then WTF are you jabbering on about?

    •  Thbt. (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Satya1

      Not from CDC or HHS.  Someone should indeed be fired, a number of someones, and those are the Republicans who voted against the $80 million or so I think it was to be allocated for additional flu preparedness.

      They fight it every step of the way, claiming it's just hype, then scream bloody murder when they're proven wrong and claim the admin didn't work hard enough.

      Talk about blatant hypocrisy.

      Those who labour in the earth are the chosen people of God. - Thomas Jefferson

      by Ezekial 23 20 on Fri Nov 06, 2009 at 08:00:23 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  Why do you assume (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      JC from IA

      there are no pregnant women working on "Wall Street"?  Why is someone with severe asthma who works as a computer programmer at a bank less deserving?

      Do the math:

      200 / 8500 = 2.35 %

    •  What stories are you reading? (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      JC from IA

      Even Morning Schmoe and the AP got this one right. CDC distributes to states, and states distribute through the network of their choice. Same way seasonal flu vaccine has been distributed for years. There is nothing new or special about distributing public health care through every willing and able institution in the community.

      _Karl Rove is an outside agitator._

      by susanala on Fri Nov 06, 2009 at 09:13:03 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Thanks, DemFromCT (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    riverlover, Geekesque, mayim

    I've been faithfully following your reports and pushed my husband to take our 2 and 4 1/2 year olds to the Chicago H1N1 clinic yesterday. This is how it went down in Chicago:

    My husband was wanting to wait until the pediatrician got enough in to go beyond children with chronic health issues, but, I waited 3 weeks so far and was unwilling to wait any longer.

    He said the process was orderly, but that there were far too few translators for the many, many who did not speak English. That was the one thing that slowed down the process greatly.

    He was in line at 12:15 for a 3 pm start time and got a number in the 200s. He was out of there at 4:15. Four hours, but it's done.

    It really is a logistical nightmare. But again, he said no fights, no arguments. Just the stress of waiting with crying children everywhere.

    Anyway, thank you again, DemFromCT from really making me see the importance of getting the shot while it was there ... and not waiting for the hope of a more "pleasant," doctor's appointment.

    BTW, my husband got the shot, too, although he's not priority, for the same reason someone mentioned above. The healthcare work asked if he was the stay-at-home (he is). They told him he really should get it for the children. So, then he felt weird NOT getting it.  

  •  On the vaccines (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    DemFromCT

    Suppose they do have high risk patients and they actually behave and give it only to them...  My pediatrician's office and my OB's office would be much better places to reach high risk people than Wall Street firms.  But they don't have a single shot.  Let the Wall Street pregnant women stand in line at the public health center like I did.

  •  IBM offers vaccines to their Employees BUT (0+ / 0-)

    Doesn't give any vaccines to the contract cafeteria workers who handle their food everyday. That's smart business ?  

    American Heart Association: Diet Soda can cause type 2 Diabetes.

    by jeffrey789 on Fri Nov 06, 2009 at 07:44:37 AM PST

    •  If they signed an agreement with the Health (0+ / 0-)

      Department that dictates the priorities, what do you want them to do?

      Are there people in the first-in-line high risk group who work in the cafeteria?

      My bet is that most corporations, given their own choice, would start at the top with their most 'valuable' employees, and work their way down the ladder.  People who don't work for them at all would not be on the chart, regardless if they worked in the same building.

  •  Regarding preventive care (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Pender, susanala

    and the doctor's response to the CBO report showing that preventive care will not save money. The doctor argues that the CBO focuses only on secondary prevention - screenings, tests, etc...and that CBO is correct in that this type of care is NOT a money saver. This is because for every 1 test or screeeing hat catches a problem, there are 50 or 100 screenings that show the patient is fine.

    Let me be clear, i'm arguing this only on the fiscal matter, not the moral issue of what is right or wrong policy.

    However, the docter says that primary prevention is a money saver- and he references eating right, exercising, not-smoking. Call me a little skeptical, but how exactly is the HCR bill going to really incentivize people to do these things? Who doesn't already know this is what you need to do to stay healthy and not end up with heart disease or diabetes?

    •  The $64,000 question (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      DemFromCT

      I'm taking the capstone class for my master's in public health this term. Monday's meeting was a CDC webinar on syndemics. The presenter, Bobby Milstein, actually has authored a policy simulation game for health care reform. Link at the bottom of my comment.

      Milstein divided "health care reform" into 3 issues: access + quality; capacity; and protection + prevention. According to him, addressing only item 1 results in a significant cost increase. Addressing items 1 + 2 results in less of increase, but an increase nonetheless. Only by adding protection + prevention can you achieve cost savings. And not until about 15 years out.

      Guess what? CBO is prohibited by law from projecting more than 10 years. According to the webinar presenter, the law was reasonable when passed. Statistical models proven reliable at the time did not allow for accuracy > 10 years into the future. Methods have advanced, but the law hasn't.

      HealthBound

      _Karl Rove is an outside agitator._

      by susanala on Fri Nov 06, 2009 at 09:31:18 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  something going on in south Texas too (0+ / 0-)

    My daughter 5 mo. pregnant and a teacher, she has not been able to get the H1N1. I have searched all the health departments online in the valley none have given the H1N1 vaccine shots

    "I want to be in Kentucky when the end of the world comes, because it's always 20 years behind" -Mark Twain

    by vet on Fri Nov 06, 2009 at 07:47:27 AM PST

  •  On ferrets (0+ / 0-)

    ferrets contracting H1N1 is not a surprise.  Ferrets are an excellent transmission model as they acquire flu very easily and show symptoms similar to humans. No one should be shocked or worried that H1N1 spreads to ferrets.

    the cat thing is a bit surprising though!

    "All this marching up and down and cheering and waving flags is simply sex gone sour." -Julia, 1984

    by pullbackthecurtain on Fri Nov 06, 2009 at 07:47:33 AM PST

  •  Establish a trigger (0+ / 0-)

    Employers are required to sign an agreement that said they're vaccinating people at high risk.

    If we hear reports that people not at high risk are being vaccinated, that would trigger an investigation.  And then if we found out that it was true, that would trigger a sternly worded response and then we could demand that they take even more vaccine which they would have to eventually pay for.

    Single Payer Single Payer Single Payer Single Payer Single Payer Single Payer Single Payer

    by CalbraithRodgers on Fri Nov 06, 2009 at 07:51:05 AM PST

  •  no vaccine for my husband who is a family doctor (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    vet, Ezekial 23 20

    and he was seeing around 20 cases of H1N1 a day. He ended up getting very sick and had to cancel his overtime work where he volunteered last weekend.  Not sure how they covered the walk-in clinic without him that was overrun with H1N1.

    Crazy priorities- they were vaccinating "first responders" such as fireman but not doctors who were seeing numerous patients.

    Vaccine STILL not available in northcentral IL

  •  Glenn Beck (and his allies) are right!!!! (0+ / 0-)

    I thought I would never write this, but as you point out, they really got this one right (accidentally, of course, because their blinders got in the way).

    The Government promised 120 million doses but only got 27 million because the task was given to private companies which have a bottom line need to produce only what they are certain they can sell.  Since the emergency we face requires a stronger program, it should have been administered by the government.  That would have likely meant, of course, that more vaccine than needed would have been produced (what people like to call "government waste") but everyone would have been vaccinated, which was what was required under the circumstances.

    This, my friends, is the point.

    Important whining and Red Sox stuff at http://edsbarth.blogspot.com/

    by Barth on Fri Nov 06, 2009 at 07:55:22 AM PST

    •  Yeah, they could make it in all those empty (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Geekesque, mariachi mama

      government vaccination production facilities located in the FEMA concentration camps.

      The Death Panel people could be reassigned.

      Of course, the damned virus hasn't been very cooperative in the manufacturing process, but the government could just order it to grow faster.

      •  Not my point.... (0+ / 0-)

        I don't think they could make it grow faster, but I think that an entity with less profit motive and more get it done motive (such as the government of a United States of America serving its citizens rather than political patrons) would have prepared better and started producing a vaccine before it looked like money could be made.

        Important whining and Red Sox stuff at http://edsbarth.blogspot.com/

        by Barth on Fri Nov 06, 2009 at 08:47:06 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  As a matter of fact, the government was involved (0+ / 0-)

          in streamlining the process by which the vaccine was developed for production, so that production could start sooner than would have normally been the case.

          But, the manufacturing capacity is as big as it is, and it is not likely to grow beyond what is normally required to produce vaccines for the market.

          So, either we nationalize the production and build facilities for the absolute worst case need, or we do the best we can with what exists in the private sector.

          What do you think the chances are that we can nationalize the production of vaccines in this country, given our politics?

          •  Its that last phrase "given our politics" (0+ / 0-)

            that, sadly answers the question, which put another way is

            what do you think the chances are that we can have the government insure that sufficient vaccine will be available, given our politics?

            I do not advocate "building facilities for the absolute worst case need" but that the profit motive be taken out of the equation.

            Important whining and Red Sox stuff at http://edsbarth.blogspot.com/

            by Barth on Sat Nov 07, 2009 at 08:04:33 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

  •  Tea Baggers in DC - meeting with my congressman (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    wa ma, HRCDemographic4Obama

    This is off topic, I admit, but I wanted to emphasize the green ad logo around DailyKos with my story.

    I was actually sitting in the waiting area of my Republican congressman Tim Murphy's office in DC waiting to meet with him on HC reform after the teabagging rally was over. (He was there for part of it, but did not speak.) I thought, "Holy crap! He's gonna be fired up and come back here and pick a fight with me."

    I was so pleasantly surprised. He didn't even mention it. We had a very good discussion on HC reform and he was very knowledgable and in sync with my goals as a progressive physician to improve health care and expand coverage. He had ideological antipathy to the public option, I surmised, and so said he couldn't vote for the house bill.

    BUT, I think there is really room for persuasion for moderates like him and the Blue Dogs. I think the most important thing to do is emphasize the moral case: If we don't do something, another 45K will die next year and the year after that. This is bigger than an ideologic distaste for part of a bill that the large majority of Americans want.

    While I was in the office, calls were coming in on HC reform. If you have given up on your Republican or Blue Dog Congress person, DON"T.

    Make the call!

  •  DeminCT - specific question re: staph trends (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    DemFromCT, wa ma

    Could you please keep an eye out for the staph trends as a complication of H1N1?  And secondary consequences in general?  I know there is an independent group meeting soon who will have that info (I hope) but the report won't be out for quite a while.  I have a son who had a hospital caused staph complication as an infant with the insertion of his shunt for hydrocephalus.  He cannot have live virus.  He hasn't had a staph infection since.  That vancomycin stuff kilt it daid at the time but the hospital epidemiologist was involved.

    We won't see school-given vaccines until late Dec. or early Jan.  Clinics just don't have them yet in MN, they are just arriving for first responders.

    "Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter, and those who matter don't mind." --- Dr. Seuss

    by kfred on Fri Nov 06, 2009 at 07:56:33 AM PST

    •  staph is ubiquitous now (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      kfred

      in communities, MRSA an especial risk, but staph is also a special risk with shunts.

      Bacterial pneumonias are also followed closely in terms of link to flu.

      "Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies." - Groucho Marx

      by Greg Dworkin on Fri Nov 06, 2009 at 08:43:45 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Rs stripped flu prep be from stimulus (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Nina, Geekesque, mariachi mama

    Actually, the private sector is responsible for flu vaccine manufacture, and the Feds are distributing vaccine much more fairly than "the biggest purchaser gets the vaccine", which is usually what happens. Or that 2009 H1N1 doesn't include seniors in the high risk group. And that flu vax takes six months to manufacture, and it's now six months almost to the day after 2009 H1N1 was first described in April. But don't tell conservatives who believe in death panels that the real culprit is viral evolution, which is why we are all susceptible to this flu bug.

    Don't dare forget: "Responsible, moderate" Sen. Susan Collins (R-ME) and other Rs demanded flu prep be stripped from Obama's stimlulus package.

    As my old boss would say, Republican'ts could f*ck up a cannonball w/ a sandbox and a rubber mallet.

  •  Dodd penned a strongly-worded letter to Sebelius! (1+ / 3-)
    Recommended by:
    Besdeekian
    Hidden by:
    Geekesque, OIL GUY, HRCDemographic4Obama

    LOLOL!

    The Dumbocrats can't do a thing to alter the corruption around and within them because they long ago drowned in corruption themselves.

    Not only can the Dumbocrats not stop Wall Street from slipping into dresses so they can get on the lifeboats first, I read this morning that the State Department has failed to expunge Blackwater.

    I'm puking here.

    The Obama Administration is a lot of pretty words.

  •  Thanks for mentioning the cat. Really. (0+ / 0-)

    I'm hoping against hope that people who don't want to get the H1N1 vaccine because they "don't get the flu" or other reasons will consider getting the shot to protect their pooties. Any port in a storm!

    As for the American Future Fund - I think they should go yell at the true culprits, like maybe the eggs that didn't produce enough vaccine fast enough to suit them.

    Maxie Baucus took an axe, gave Single Payer 40 whacks. And when he saw what he had done, gave Public Option 41. (NO, Max! Bad Senator!)

    by SciMathGuy on Fri Nov 06, 2009 at 08:16:21 AM PST

  •  Yeah, I can just imagine Wall St's desperation to (0+ / 0-)

    vaccinate the pregnant woman with three kids who works as a custodian, or the asthmatic man who drives the floor polishing machine in the lobby. When I worked for a Wall Street firm, the people who were most often ill and in need of preventive health care were the laborers--and invariably were employed by a subcontractor that paid them minimum wage and no benefits. So "Wall Street" really has no influence over those employees anyway. Selfish bastards. It's enough to make me glad I'm living in the middle of a corn field now and no longer kissing the corporate ass.

    In a minute there is time for decisions and revisions which a minute will reverse.

    by Greek Goddess on Fri Nov 06, 2009 at 08:17:30 AM PST

    •  That's just the way corporations work (0+ / 0-)

      whether they're on Wall Street or anywhere else in the country.

      They are designed to work from the top down.

      •  This is true. But my point was (0+ / 0-)

        that Wall Street firms specifically have been gifted with H1N1 vaccines on the pretext that such firms have high-risk employees. Of course, the concern isn't with the high-risk employees--it's with the high-rolling ones. But because all companies have low-echelon employees, Wall Street firms can use theirs to justify their so-called concern.

        In a minute there is time for decisions and revisions which a minute will reverse.

        by Greek Goddess on Fri Nov 06, 2009 at 08:39:34 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  What pretext? (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          mariachi mama

          The state of New York has decided to distribute vaccines to companies that have medical staffs on site.  It is a means to get the vaccine into the population other than having public clinics administer it.  Just like any other site that offers the vaccine.  In my area, this includes clinics, hospitals, and the larger drug stores, as well as my mom's tiny church which happens to have a couple of medical types as members.

          The people who work at Wall Street firms are no less citizens of the US than any of the rest of us.  They are members of the large group known as the "general population".

          And, given the number of doses allocated to these companies, and the numbers of employees involved, it is certainly not hard to believe that they would have at least that number of people in the priority high risk groups.

          Having company medical staffs administer the vaccine is just another way to distribute it to the population.

          •  What is your area? n/t (0+ / 0-)

            In a minute there is time for decisions and revisions which a minute will reverse.

            by Greek Goddess on Fri Nov 06, 2009 at 08:54:27 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  Iowa, not too far from the corn fields! (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Greek Goddess

              The doses that have been received here so far have been snapped up immediately, so they are being allocated according to a priority list.

              So far, that has meant pregnant, caregiver to other high risk groups, and medical people.

              Initially, when there wasn't such a shortage expected, there were public sites that were first-come, first-served.  They always blew through their supplies in about a quarter of the time they had estimated, hence the need for setting priorities.

              The health department types who decide these things base their estimates on past performance; in this case, it appears that the interest in being inoculated against this particular strain is way beyond the normal seasonal flu.

              I can only think of a handful of companies here who may have enough employees to justify on-site medical staffs, and I'm not sure what the distribution policy is here in that regard.  Or, if such as policy has even been considered, for that matter.

              •  Similar circumstances here in Indiana. (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                JC from IA

                Our local health department is going to run an open clinic for high-risk people tomorrow morning where they'll distribute 1,000 doses. I know of people who are preparing to get in line at 5:00 a.m. My son's school sent out a notice that vaccines will be offered at school to kids whose parents give permission. I gave permission, but there is no date set yet. I hope it won't be too late. My mother works at the IU School of Medicine, and everyone there, students and staff alike, has received vaccines. Which is reasonable. Since I work at home, I don't expect to be on anyone's list of priorities, but at least those around me will be protected.

                In a minute there is time for decisions and revisions which a minute will reverse.

                by Greek Goddess on Fri Nov 06, 2009 at 10:03:26 AM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  If what has been going on here is any indication, (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  Greek Goddess

                  they'll blow through that 1,000 doses in about 2 hours, or basically about as fast as they can do the injections.

                  My personal preference would have been to start with the public schools and publicly operated colleges.  But, then, the first nurse or pregnant woman who was stricken would have been front-page news.

                  So far, it seems to me that we are approaching the 10%-of-the-population mark as far as doses distributed.  Not fast, by any means, but I understand that the 60% level is about the best we usually get on the seasonal flu.  

                  So, in my mind, that 10% mark will mean 10% fewer "incubators" to distribute this particular virus within this population.

                  Which is comforting, to a low-priority type such as myself!

              •  Vaccine available: Visiting Nurses in Des Moines (0+ / 0-)

                Found out by accident by got my 2-year-old vaccinated. Strangely, there seems to have been little or no publicity about this. According to their website, they were scheduled to have it this week, ending today. Walked in with no line. (Granted, availability was for high-risk groups only.)

          •  I agree with that (0+ / 0-)

            but transparency would be a huge help. If Wall Street firms are going to assist the public in vaccinating high risk people, tell them who the high risk people are (not by name, but by category.)

            "Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies." - Groucho Marx

            by Greg Dworkin on Fri Nov 06, 2009 at 08:57:54 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  Isn't that being done? (0+ / 0-)

              I don't know the specific policy in New York, or its relative transparency.

              I don't expect companies to open their clinics to the general population beyond their own employees, but what information they are being given as to priorities in NYC I have no idea.

              •  neither does anyone else (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                JC from IA

                I can tell you if someone said to me 'we're going to give vaccine to Wall Street companies to distribute' I would have said 'it'll look awful, like the Bernie madoffs are getting it, so have a press release and explain it to me like I was a sixth grader, or come up with another plan'.

                "We have x number of pregnant women on our staff and y number of parents with under six month old babies (high risk CDC groups), and we want to do our part and relieve the burden on pediatrician and OB offices." Announce it as an innovative private-DOH partnership. And put it out before some investigative reporter puts you in defensive mode. Assuming that that is what you are doing.

                Or, you can have this.

                "Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies." - Groucho Marx

                by Greg Dworkin on Fri Nov 06, 2009 at 09:28:17 AM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  Well, PR is another matter, isn't it? (0+ / 0-)

                  As near as I can tell, this policy was in place before this particular strain of virus became an issue.

                  The shortage of supplies of the vaccine were not anticipated by the manufacturers; nor was the larger-than-normal interest on the part of the public to get the vaccination, as near as I can tell.

                  Should the New York Health Department have anticipated these things and tailored their PR to what actually happened?  Isn't that second-guessing?

                  •  this one is such a no brainer (0+ / 0-)

                    it's hardly second guessing.

                    "Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies." - Groucho Marx

                    by Greg Dworkin on Fri Nov 06, 2009 at 09:52:13 AM PST

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  Did you anticipate these problems before they (1+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      Caj

                      happened, then?  Should officials in New York have told these companies "No, sorry, no vaccine for you until we get our PR campaign right"?

                      How do you think that approach would have gone over?

                      •  nah (1+ / 0-)
                        Recommended by:
                        JC from IA

                        it's the health department saying to the companies "work with us, and we will anounce and plan together."

                        "Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies." - Groucho Marx

                        by Greg Dworkin on Fri Nov 06, 2009 at 10:43:08 AM PST

                        [ Parent ]

                        •  Well, as I understand it, this would still be a (0+ / 0-)

                          policy change by the Health Department with regard to the policy that was in place.

                          I'm not so sure they could have pulled that off without a complaint from some quarter.

                          Moreover, the number of doses they have distributed to companies  so far probably wasn't seen by them as significant, since in reality it wasn't.

                          •  here's a pretty good summary (0+ / 0-)

                            with a (sort of an) apology for not understanding that different within-compny clinics was the same company.

                            Officials Defend Distribution of Flu Vaccine to Companies

                            the problem:

                            Citigroup has received 1,200 doses, more than half of what it requested, health officials said, and in late October, Goldman received 200 of the 5,400 doses it asked for. By contrast, Memorial Sloan-Kettering Cancer Center received 200 of the 27,400 doses that it requested for its workers, according to the New York City Department of Health and Mental Hygiene.

                            That is just not right. Here's some good news:

                            Citigroup and Goldman Sachs said they had administered the vaccine to pregnant women and employees with serious health conditions...

                            A spokeswoman for Goldman said the bank, "like other responsible employers, has requested vaccine and will supply it only to employees who qualify."

                            Frieden, the ex-NYC commissioner, is no dummy:

                            News reports on Thursday that the two banks and other companies received doses of the vaccine led Dr. Thomas R. Frieden, the director of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention and a former New York City health commissioner, to send out a letter reminding officials nationwide to make sure the vaccine goes only to people in high priority groups. Any decisions "that appear to direct the vaccine to people outside the identified priority groups have the potential to undermine the credibility of the program," he said.

                            and the apology

                            The city’s health commissioner, Dr. Thomas A. Farley, said: "My understanding is that Citi had multiple clinics and facilities, and they placed several orders. The person filling these might not have realized it was one company."

                            "We are dealing with thousands of providers and thousands of orders," Dr. Farley said. "It’s not all going as smoothly as we would like it to go."

                            So, that's better than CEOs get vaccine.

                            "Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies." - Groucho Marx

                            by Greg Dworkin on Fri Nov 06, 2009 at 01:31:24 PM PST

                            [ Parent ]

  •  Love the new website.... (0+ / 0-)

    If this doesn't get your attention to get active in health care, then you are not paying attention.

    Now to my real comment.  Not that I don't want answers about the H1N1 vaccine being available to Wall Street.

    But two questions.

    1.  Aren't there Bush holdovers at the CDC still?  
    1.  How can the media portray the H1N1 as being something dangerous and show all kinds of protest from Americans about getting the vaccine for themselves or their children.  And then in the next breath run a story about Wall Street getting some vaccines?  They shouldn't be able to have it both ways.
    •  CDC is pretty fairly nonpartisan (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Fabian

      it was under Bush with some rare exceptions that are now gone. I've worked with them before and since.

      "Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies." - Groucho Marx

      by Greg Dworkin on Fri Nov 06, 2009 at 08:45:23 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  HMOs will not fight H1N1 (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    HRCDemographic4Obama

    If there is one lesson above all others we are being taught by H1N1's mockery of all flu predictions, it is that America urgently needs a Universal Health Care system.

    A well-coordinated national response is the only way to battle diseases like H1N1. Meanwhile, our un-coordinated, clumsy, stingy, greedy network of for-profit health insurance companies not only isn't able to handle problems like this, it isn't even willing to try, because if there's one thing that makes profits go down, it's treating a bunch of sick people.

    H1N1's lesson: America needs UHC!

    Why is the Republican party pro-rape?

    by jimbo92107 on Fri Nov 06, 2009 at 08:30:21 AM PST

  •  What DeminCT doesn't mention (0+ / 0-)

    is that the gov't knew that a flu vax takes six months to manufacture when it promised 120 million doses by October...in July.  

    Nor does he mention that the doses are ordered and on their way to Gitmo by the end of November, which is well before sufficient doses will be available to inoculate the general public.

    The fact is that the gov't has once again overpromised and underdelivered, something at which President Obama seems to excel.

    At the end of the day, while the ad may be at worst a non-sequitur, it is factual as far as I can tell.  Blaming conservatives not understanding "viral evolution", especially after he himself detailed multiple problems with the distribution demonstrates almost mind-boggling cognitive dissonance.

    •  the govt. (Sebelius) did overpromise (0+ / 0-)

      I didn't say it here, but i have certainly said it before. As for Gitmo, the military is on a separate list and has nothing to do with civilian programs.

      "Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies." - Groucho Marx

      by Greg Dworkin on Fri Nov 06, 2009 at 08:55:58 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  So in other words (0+ / 0-)

        the factual basis of the ad is correct.  Conservative ignorance of "viral evolution" has nothing to do with the Obama administration failing to follow through on its promises.  (Sebelius promised????  Democrats seem to have come a long way since "the buck stops" at the Oval Office.  Like it or not, Obama is the president.)

        And the military being on a separate list is a red herring.  There is a perfectly reasonable explanation (in a nutshell, the logistics of vaccinating the military most efficiently will include inoculating the detainees as well) why the detainees are getting the vaccine, possibly before a large number of Americans.  But the fact remains that Gibbs implying that it's not going to happen, when in fact it absolutely will is another less than factual statement from the White House concerning this whole affair.

        To sum up, it isn't conservatives' fault the White House gives them so much ammunition.

        •  out of context facts are not factual (0+ / 0-)

          they are truthy.

          "Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies." - Groucho Marx

          by Greg Dworkin on Fri Nov 06, 2009 at 10:01:21 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  OK... (0+ / 0-)

            So much of politics is truthiness.  That isn't much of a defense.  Both parties engage in it.  It's called 'spin' in other contexts.  The central fact the ad highlights is that the Obama administration promised 120 million doses by October, and didn't even manage a quarter of that amount.  No amount of ad hominem changes that.

            Speaking of truthiness, I'd be curious to hear your position on Rep. Grayson's assertions concerning all the people dying in Congressional Republicans' districts.  It's based on his own back of the envelope calculations and based on a single study.  Or about the supposedly saved or created jobs numbers that seem to be a little, um, inflated. (Bogus or fraudulent also come to mind)  Grayson's numbers are about as reliable as Iraq WMD reports, and a large percentage of "saved or created" numbers are out and out fabrications.  I'll take truthiness anyday over that.  At least at the core of truthiness is, you know, truth.

  •  Pretending (0+ / 0-)

    Why are so many people @ this site and on the Hill pretending that the house so called HCR bill being voted on Sat. is really HCR?  This Turkey isn't even close to being REFORM. Without a ROBUST ( Open to everyone and tied to Medicare rates) Public Option this bill literally amounts to a gun pointed in the face of every American forcing them to BUY Private Health Ins. products from the very same Health care Vampires that brought us to the problem in the 1st place. This is in essence a HUGE Tax payer financed GIVE AWAY to the health Mafia! The Dems. can call it whatever they want but this SHIT TACO isn' going to go down so well in a yr. when people step up to the polls and during that yr. they watch their Ins. bills soar because of it and they watch their taxes also increase when their own Health policy is taxed to pay for it! The Dems. think they're cleverly concealing the somber facts of how BAD this SHIT TACO tastes and smells but that's only for the moment.

    "It's better to die on your feet then live on your knees" E. Zapata

    by Blutodog on Fri Nov 06, 2009 at 09:09:36 AM PST

  •  Canadians love hockey (0+ / 0-)

    We don't care if they got they got their shot first. Someone should have had the balls to stand up and say, who cares, they are pro hockey players, WTF is the big deal?

    •  tell that to hockey moms (0+ / 0-)

      who couldn't get vaccine for thier own kids.

      10 minutes for a game misconduct. Note the Canadian health official also lost their job.

      "Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies." - Groucho Marx

      by Greg Dworkin on Fri Nov 06, 2009 at 09:30:30 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  So, now that I seem to have H1N1 (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Fabian, ydice

    and I was already targeted in a group to not get the vaccine, well, I won't need it. Illness is not the worst influenza I have ever had, but the odd intestinal symptoms make anorexia worse. And I had my first fever in twenty years.

    Fever ended yesterday, but aches and headache go on. I assume that if the fever is gone so is viral replication, therefore no transmission to others, although I have have heard that there may still be virus coming out of me for several more days. i have been a good citizen and have been self-isolated since I realized that it might be flu.

    How careful should I be? In less than a week I should be seropositive, not that any health care people will ever test me.

    Americans, while occasionally willing to be serfs, have always been obstinate about being peasantry. F. Scott Fitzgerald, the Great Gatsby

    by riverlover on Fri Nov 06, 2009 at 09:40:01 AM PST

  •  Black Caucus to support public option @1:30 today (0+ / 0-)

    It will be on C-SPAN here.

    NY-23 to Hoffman, Palin, Beck and Limbaugh: "Thanks, but no thanks!"

    by AtomikNY on Fri Nov 06, 2009 at 09:40:56 AM PST

  •  Feds did NOT give vaccine to Wall Street (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    DemFromCT, JC from IA

    More MSM disinformation, in their ongoing campaign to discredit Obama. Don't write to Sibelius or blame Obama for Wall Street bankers getting vaccinated before children - ask the NY State or NYC Health Commissioner. They're the ones making the decisions on vaccine allocations. It's that "local control" which wingnuts keep pushing for, dontcha know.

    Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives. - John Stuart Mill

    by vulcangrrl on Fri Nov 06, 2009 at 09:50:46 AM PST

  •  Overhead a gynocologist (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Fabian

    say he "accidentally" took the vaccine home in his briefcase.  Whereupon, he vaccinated his whole family (and others?) before returning it.  He looked a bit sheepish when telling the story but his wife was proud.  Watcha' gonna do?

  •  racism made us fair asian flu? (0+ / 0-)

    Excellent article by Helen Branswell.

    I wonder if pure racism made our system expect flu to come from China (or Brazil).

    "Your victory has demonstrated that no person anywhere in the world should not dare to dream of wanting to change the world for a better place." -- Mandela

    by agoldnyc on Fri Nov 06, 2009 at 10:02:27 AM PST

  •  They may have high risk employees... (0+ / 0-)

    But why did they get so many vaccines, when Sloan-Kettering only got 200??

    http://www.kaiserhealthnews.org/...

    The distribution of swine flu vaccines to big name companies in New York has caused an uproar as people complain that children and health care workers should receive top priority. The New York Times reports: "New York City health officials have distributed small amounts of the swine flu vaccine to some major New York companies, including Wall Street banks like Goldman Sachs and Citigroup, even as shortages continue. Citigroup has received 1,200 doses, more than half of what it requested, health officials said, and in late October, Goldman received 200 of the 5,400 doses it asked for."

    "By contrast, Memorial Sloan-Kettering Cancer Center received 200 of the 27,400 doses that it requested for its workers, according to the New York City Department of Health and Mental Hygiene. Jessica Scaperotti, a health department spokeswoman, said the priority was to get the vaccine to pediatricians, obstetricians, gynecologists, community health centers and public and private hospitals. Private companies that have asked for the vaccine are also eligible to receive it, as long as it is distributed to people who are considered at risk. Citigroup and Goldman Sachs said they had administered the vaccine to pregnant women and employees with serious health conditions" (Anderson, 11/5).

    Economic Left/Right: -7.38 Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -7.33 . "If you can find money to kill people, you can find money to help people"

    by wrights on Fri Nov 06, 2009 at 02:07:17 PM PST

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