Carper Still Pushing Triggered Co-ops

Remember this one? The "Plan B" for getting all those moderates on board by creating state level triggered co-ops in lieu of a public option? Carper is still pushing it, acting as concern troll, catering to those vaunted "moderates" of the caucus.

"We're concerned that a number of centrists aren't prepared to vote for a national public plan, even with an opt-out," Carper said in response to a question from TPMDC. "We're trying to find something that addresses their concern about government run, government-funded, but still addresses the need for the affordability needs and the need for more competition in states that don't have it."

"What we're asking centrists is, What concerns do you need to have addressed so that you can vote for cloture, either to bring the bill to the floor, or to take the bill off the floor and to go to conference? And the two concerns we keep hearing over and over again: government-run, government funded."

I wonder if he got his non-public option "alternative" to a public option idea from his former chief of staff, who is now a lobbyist for WellPoint, the nation's largest health insurer. Surely just coincidence, right?

The ConservaDems have held this process hostage long enough, and it's time for the progressives--and in this case it's the 54 or 55 who would have no problem voting for a public option--to take the process back. Sherrod Brown says they've compromised enough. If he and his progressive colleagues mean that, then they need to start pressuring leadership to use the same hardball tactics as Ben Nelson and Blanche Lincoln.

The answer is there: reconciliation. It's potentially ugly, but policy-making, particularly on the important stuff, isn't supposed to be easy or pretty. At the very least, the threat of the ConservaDems being left behind on this bill has to be made. At this point, a halfway decent outcome depends up on it.

•  Does Carper blow worse than Bayh?

  Or Nelson? Or Feinstein? Or Baucus? Or Lincoln? Or Landrieu? Or any of the rest of the corporate boot-lickers who make up the DLC Democrats?

  To answer my own question... They all blow.

  Mightily.

  by Bob Johnson on Wed Nov 18, 2009 at 01:05:29 PM PDT

  •  The suck is strong with these less-progressives.

    by D in Northern Virginia on Wed Nov 18, 2009 at 01:06:46 PM PDT

    •  And their corporate masters...

      ... have satisfied smiles.

      by Bob Johnson on Wed Nov 18, 2009 at 01:08:14 PM PDT

      •  Ooooh, yes, Smithers ...

        (Rubbing hands together.)

        by D in Northern Virginia on Wed Nov 18, 2009 at 01:12:22 PM PDT

    •  Small state, Big

      ... Donor syndrome.

      http://www.dailykos.com/...
      Carper of DE
      Leadership PAC Top Contributors for Carper of DE, from opensecrets and the FEC:

      Astra Zenica Pharma
      American Bankers
      Bank of Am
      Credit Suisse Securities
      Deloitte  Touche (lobbyist)

      Top 5 Industries
      Pharma
      Insurance
      Sec Investments
      Commercial banks
      Real Estate
      http://www.opensecrets.org/...
      What a surprise!

      From the 2008 cycle, AstraZenica is the top Pharma contributor again, also there's Amgen, lots of banks, insurance, Eli Lilly, Glaxo smith kline, and good ol' Koch Oil, who funds the Teabaggers.  buzz buzz buzz ding ding  Sunoco Oil too.

      (Carper) Gave Mary Landrieu 10,000 in 08, she's against the P/O so far, bad Mary!

      His regular donations, number one contributor in 2008 is JP Morgan Chase, then Citigroup, MBNA, Norfolk Southern, Bank of America banks banks banks... top category is from lawyers and insurance

      NUMBER ONE CAUSE OF BANKRUPTCY IN THIS COUNTRY IS MEDICAL DEBT. STOP THE BLEEDING.

      Carper of DE~
      Personal net worth in 2007, between 2.6 million to 7.4 million  

      Downloading his 2008 (personal finance disclosure) form, a pdf, shows investments in Duke Energy, Spectra Energy, DuPont, Medco, Merck pharma, CHEVRON that's more freaking astroturf teabag protest source money for this protest crap, Exxon oil, ALTRIA, that is Phillip Morris tobacco, more astroturf teabagger money, Conoco Phillips

      by AmericanRiverCanyon on Wed Nov 18, 2009 at 01:24:25 PM PDT

•  Reconciliation deprives the conservadems

  of their power.

  by slinkerwink on Wed Nov 18, 2009 at 01:05:42 PM PDT

  •  and if they fail to support the bill

    deprives them of their seats
    who wouldn't want to challenge someone stupid enough to piss off their base that badly

    by askyron on Wed Nov 18, 2009 at 02:32:29 PM PDT

•  thanks for not calling them moderates

  because i don't see much difference between Lincoln and Lieberman on the one hand and teabaggers on the other.  they all spew bullshit about the public option and the healthcare reform.

  by BennyToothpick on Wed Nov 18, 2009 at 01:05:50 PM PDT

  •  they're conservadems, plain and simple

    by slinkerwink on Wed Nov 18, 2009 at 01:06:30 PM PDT

    •  Consernvatives

      They're concerned and they're conservatives.

      by Magnifico on Wed Nov 18, 2009 at 01:09:43 PM PDT

    •  What do they conserve? They are right wingers in

      "conservative" clothing.

      by polar bear on Wed Nov 18, 2009 at 01:14:23 PM PDT

    •  Coin Operated, I might add.

      by potatohead on Wed Nov 18, 2009 at 07:03:10 PM PDT

•  THere's certain things

  like bans on recession,

  regulatory reforms that the parlimentarian would not allow for reconciliation.

  There's also some traditional-minded Democrats who support the public option (like Byrd and Feingold) who wouldn't stomach the idea of reconciliation.

  by bourbonblue on Wed Nov 18, 2009 at 01:05:58 PM PDT

•  I'm just completely and utterly baffled by this.

  How can any reasonably intelligent person look at Carper's proposal - triggered co-ops - and seriously consider it?

  Sherrod Brown is right - no more compromises.

  by blueyescryinintherain on Wed Nov 18, 2009 at 01:06:28 PM PDT

  •  It's actually triggered state-based co-ops

    What a laughingstock.

    by slinkerwink on Wed Nov 18, 2009 at 01:06:53 PM PDT

    •  It's as if adding more adjectives ...

      Makes the idea better.

      by D in Northern Virginia on Wed Nov 18, 2009 at 01:13:24 PM PDT

      •  No. It makes it worse which is exactly their

        intention here.

        We've moved from a strategy of blocking reform for many years to screwing it up to the point that it is completely ineffective and unworkable.

        "There are no bad ideas" is actually utter fantasy.  There are plenty of bad ideas and this debate has seen its fair share of them so far.

        by inclusiveheart on Wed Nov 18, 2009 at 01:53:25 PM PDT

  •  easy explanation: carper's a two-bit whore

    with no insult intended to actual whores, who earn an honest living.

    by NamelessGenXer on Wed Nov 18, 2009 at 01:15:49 PM PDT

•  americans

  Americans I think , don't care about procedures. All they want is a good bill to become law.  Noone is gonna care about how it came into being a few years from now.

  I would bet 99.9% of americans dont even know what reconciliation is, or care to know.

  We just want help.  Dems need to get out of the bubble and stop listening to anything Repubs say.

  by dark daze on Wed Nov 18, 2009 at 01:07:14 PM PDT

•  Consernvative Democrats

  Carper's concerned about "government-run, government funded" and Nelson is concerned about "government regulated" fighting to keep trust exempt status health insurers.

  They should just caucus as Consernvatives.

  by Magnifico on Wed Nov 18, 2009 at 01:08:36 PM PDT

  •  we call them "moderates"

    but we should call them by their proper names:

    ASSHOLES.

    by angry liberaltarian on Wed Nov 18, 2009 at 01:09:56 PM PDT

    •  No, those have a function as waste ejectors

      .... these people are acting as receptacles. Wall sockets. Slot machines.

      by AmericanRiverCanyon on Wed Nov 18, 2009 at 01:30:09 PM PDT

    •  It's the Corporate Media

      that keep calling them "moderates", including the so-called public broadcasters (NPR, PBS)

      by NoGW on Wed Nov 18, 2009 at 02:03:11 PM PDT

•  It's like Stupak's former LD wrote

  the Genentech pieces.

  Sell out moderate D's.

  by angry liberaltarian on Wed Nov 18, 2009 at 01:09:26 PM PDT

•  So called "Moderates" are really extremists

  I mean really.

  Who's more sensible?

  The people adding anti-choice amendments that could actually kill the bill, or Progressives who've worked with the admin and sacrificed every single one of our beliefs to pass something to help people.

  I'm tired of these conservative Dems being called moderate. Moderate means this:

  "avoiding extremes of behavior or expression : observing reasonable limits"

  Conservative Democrats aren't moderate, they're extremists.

  We need to stop pretending like it's moderate to be halfway Republican these days.

  Being halfway Republican means you're NOT moderate, by definition. You're halfway extremist. Halfway fundamentalist. And 100% irresponsible.

  by certainly on Wed Nov 18, 2009 at 01:09:47 PM PDT

  •  I think that they are as ideological as anyone.

    They've defined their so-called "middle" and won't budge from it.  That isn't moderate at all.  They are just as entrenched as many of their counter parts on the far right.  In any case, if 72% of the people support a public option, then these folks are no where near any reasonable definition of the political middle on this issue.

    by inclusiveheart on Wed Nov 18, 2009 at 01:58:07 PM PDT

•  Its time for Reid to present a strong public

  Option. Lets take down the names of the Dems that refuse to vote for closure. And then remember at election time

  by Lawdog on Wed Nov 18, 2009 at 01:10:57 PM PDT

  •  If the Senate chooses the reconciliation route,

    it should go for Single-Payer. Get the CBO to do a system-wide scoring of SP. It's been done before here, and showed systemic savings of hundreds of billions.

    by NoGW on Wed Nov 18, 2009 at 02:10:19 PM PDT

•  Carper? Carp... ah, one and the same.

  by quityurkidding on Wed Nov 18, 2009 at 01:13:11 PM PDT

•  How about, "We're concerned that a number of

  progressives won't vote for a bill with a trigger or state coops alone."

  I hope we get daily action diaries with progressive phone numbers.  They have to stand strong and join their peers in the House.

  They must know that we are watching.  No triggers.  National PO.  That is the least they can allow.

  by polar bear on Wed Nov 18, 2009 at 01:13:28 PM PDT

  •  Actually

    Carper is concerned that a number of Senators will vote for a bill with a trigger alone.  That's why he's scrambling to water it down further because the holdouts are too stupid to ask for the right things.

    by DelRPCV on Wed Nov 18, 2009 at 02:42:22 PM PDT

•  make them filibuster

  Yes, I know the actual filibuster rules are complicated, but it's still possible to stop Senate business for a week or two while the ConservaDems stand with the insurance companies and the Repubicans.

  But an actual filibuster is still possible, and forcing the 3 ConservaDem holdouts to publicly filibuster with the Republicans will put pressure on them to cave. Neither Landrieu nor Lincoln are brave enough to endure that media attention. And if it's just Nelson standing alone, I think he caves pretty quickly.

  by ferg on Wed Nov 18, 2009 at 01:15:58 PM PDT

  •  this is great news. i didn't know demanding an

    actual filibuster was still possible.  

    by polar bear on Wed Nov 18, 2009 at 01:20:40 PM PDT

    •  It isn't really.

      Any member of the minority party can ask their party leader to object to a vote -- they don't need to stand there reading from the telephone directory, and they never do.  Generally the minority makes a point of order that the Senate does not have a quorum on the floor (which it almost never does).  Action cannot proceed until a quorum is present or there is unanimous consent to waive the request for a quorum.  The minority always has a senator on the floor or nearby (as does the majority, sitting in the president's chair.)  

      To get a real, "Mr. Smith Goes to Washington"-type filibuster, it would have to be a single senator who wants to prevent action on a bill over the objection of virtually everyone else -- where nobody would honor his request to hold the floor.  Even then it really wouldn't work anymore -- the senate used to have a limitation on when it could conduct business, and Senators would use the filibuster to drag out debate until the scheduled limit of the the session -- sort of a legislative version of a pocket veto.  But now the only limits on the senate is sine die adjournment, which only happens once a year between sessions and congresses.  

      by Headlight on Wed Nov 18, 2009 at 02:23:48 PM PDT

•  How many concessions...

  ... do our Representatives think that the base is willing to accept?  How much watering down of what would comprise real health care reform?

  Although, too many have been too good at accepting "compromise" in the name of what they deem to be "political reality".

  Too many accepted the fact that a single payer system would not even be discussed.

  Too many accepted a weaker PO.

  And mandates.

  And sequentially weaker regulation.

  And a complete lack of drug pricing reform.

  And the lack of a Medicare based model.

  Still - at some point, if this course doesn't change, there is going to be some significant fallout.  Sure, a lot of folks may be happy to get any reform at all - even if it is effectively in name only.  But too many activists are going to be so disillusioned, too many people who scraped and scimped so they could donate are going to be so disgusted that there will be ramifications in 2010 and beyond.

  At some point, our elected leaders need to fulfill their side of the bargain.  We worked hard to ensure that both the legislative and executive branches were Democratically controlled.  There is no excuse for us not to see at least some real legislation passed that is aligned with the stated Democratic principles.

  by JRandomPoster on Wed Nov 18, 2009 at 01:16:35 PM PDT

•  Do these idiots in the senate know that if

  a piece of crap bill gets passed, many progressives will sit out the 2010 elections?  

  by caseynm on Wed Nov 18, 2009 at 01:18:24 PM PDT

  •  that should show em!!!!

    by soccergrandmom on Wed Nov 18, 2009 at 01:58:17 PM PDT

    •  Really, it should.

      Because for all the monies they may get from the lobbies out of all of this, it still takes the volunteers to get folks elected.  And it usually isn't the "moderates" and "independents" that volunteer extensively or contribute deeply.

      by JRandomPoster on Wed Nov 18, 2009 at 03:07:04 PM PDT

      •  no problem, we'll just do it without you.

        by soccergrandmom on Wed Nov 18, 2009 at 03:20:52 PM PDT

        •  If they pass a useless bill, they are ALL

          Joe Lieberman.  And if they do it, if it's a piece of crap bill, you will do it without me.  Given a choice of 56 Liebercrats or a Republican majority, I'd stay home. And let the country get completely run into the ground by the Republicans; then ONLY the retarded south would vote for the idiots and we could get our fucking country back.

          by caseynm on Wed Nov 18, 2009 at 09:36:38 PM PDT

          •  that just about sums up the myopia and idiocy of

            so-called Democrats who think the way you do. Good luck. I guess the battle lines are drawn. I'm glad you are so upfront about identifying who the enemy is next time.

            by soccergrandmom on Thu Nov 19, 2009 at 07:25:11 AM PDT

            •  Screw you too, ya patsy.

              They have huge majorities (which they begged us to give them)and all they do is make excuses for not doing the right thing.  and notice: even you recognize that we are most likely going to get a POS healthcare bill. (I notice that you don't challenge my claim, just my threat....)

              by caseynm on Thu Nov 19, 2009 at 09:53:31 AM PDT

•  jeez and enough compromising ..

  If this was a car I feel as though we have given up already the steering wheel, brakes, and now they want to include the engine too..   Enough already and stop watering down this thing even more..

  by ebbinflo on Wed Nov 18, 2009 at 01:21:21 PM PDT

•  A trigger that won't be pulled

  on a gun that couldn't knock a dent in the problem.

  by Mike Taylor on Wed Nov 18, 2009 at 01:23:37 PM PDT

•  No reconiliation

  until they force these jerks to actually stand with Republicans to filibuster this bill. These are the same creeps who wouldn't filibuster Republican garbage in the name of cordiality. How about being cordial and allowing the Democratic majority to do the people's business?

  by Alfonso Nevarez on Wed Nov 18, 2009 at 01:24:06 PM PDT

•  Meanwhile, back in the real world

  Death, suffering, and bankruptcies run rampant due to a broken and corrupt system.

  That DC bubble must be awfully hard to see through.

  Hell yeah, enough with the compromises. Fix something for a change, and to hell with "comity."

  Damn DINOs should just switch parties or declare themselves a Party of One ala Lieberman and take their chances with the electorate.

  by Anthony Page aka SecondComing on Wed Nov 18, 2009 at 01:26:52 PM PDT

•  oh, blah blah

  just give me the CBO score already, damn.  

  I'm done with the tea leaves and speculation.  Time for the brass tacks!!

  by mirandasright on Wed Nov 18, 2009 at 01:31:03 PM PDT

•  nobody wants triggers or co-ops

  Get it through your thick skull.

  by dan667 on Wed Nov 18, 2009 at 01:32:13 PM PDT

•  show me a "centrist"

  and I'll show you a Republican.

  by tegrat on Wed Nov 18, 2009 at 01:33:53 PM PDT

•  So where is Sherrod Brown today?

  Is he out there giving a thumbs down to this crap?

  by cmpnwtr on Wed Nov 18, 2009 at 01:35:24 PM PDT

•  Carper

  Fuck off Carper! We're not going to allow the party with 60 senate seats to operate like they're the minority party. We want a strong public option available to all. If we don't get it we're going to work on kicking your weak, stupid asses out of office. Pussy!

  by roxsteady on Wed Nov 18, 2009 at 01:36:07 PM PDT

•  Dicks!

  I just read an article on firedoglake.com about that banana nosed Ben Nelson. Apparently, he's going to allow the bill to come to the floor. He claims that he's concerned that the progressives will go the reconciliation route if he doesn't. He then said that when the final bill is ready for a vote, he will not vote to end the filibuster if there is something he disagrees with in the bill. The problem with that is that it's bullshit. According to the article, if he joins the Republicans in a filibuster the Dems can still go the reconciliation route. So he's basically all bluster. Fuck off banana nose! I hope the stupid ass people in your state will consider getting rid of your ignornat, old ass next time. Stop sending these fucking morons to Washington NEBRASKA! Are all of the people in your state fucking morons?

  by roxsteady on Wed Nov 18, 2009 at 01:42:21 PM PDT

•  How much more of a sell-out can this be?

  If the Senate sells out any further we might as just as well let the GOPers write this bill since their Corp. pals are certainly doing most of that already. If the turkey sure to come out of all this  ( sigh) compromising dies it sure won't upset me. Without a Robust PO this bill is so awful I think it's better to suck it up and take the political beating now, maybe by next fall so much water would have gone under this bridge nobody will care. If the Dems. don't see the unemployment numbers start to go down it won't make any difference anyway. The GOPERS did a good job of burning , looting and pillaging everything of any value last yr. leaving Obama and company to be seen as causing it all in another yr.

  by Blutodog on Wed Nov 18, 2009 at 01:42:25 PM PDT

•  The fight for a public option --

  needs to go on PAST the passage of this bill, whether a public option makes it into the bill, or not.  Pelosi's public option will be designed and administered by the corporations and will exclude most of the public from participation.

  by Cassiodorus on Wed Nov 18, 2009 at 01:43:10 PM PDT

  •  Real PO not the fake crap so far

    The Dems. in the house played a really nasty game with us on the PO and what came out of all of that was BS and worse the stupid rt. wing StupidPak amendment. I really hate the way this whole so called Reform is developing into little more then a huge sell out to the same thieving pillaging so called Health care Corps. that are already raping us out here. The Dems. simply don't get it do they?

    by Blutodog on Wed Nov 18, 2009 at 01:48:26 PM PDT

    •  I think they get it just fine.

      But I also think they can take a bundle of insurer money and fool the rest of us with progressive ideology and non-legislation.

      by Cassiodorus on Wed Nov 18, 2009 at 06:55:35 PM PDT

      •  Fool who?

        They're not fooling anyone in here that doesn't want to be fooled. The so called Health Deform is BS almost from top to bottom. It's just another bail out for Wall st. only this time the cash gets funneled to the health Care mafia. I'm so disgusted with these klowns in Congress it's making me sick. Change who can believe in? The GOpers at least are right out front about what they are, take em or leave em. The Dems. are used car salesman. The've become the party of read the fine print.

        by Blutodog on Thu Nov 19, 2009 at 02:21:45 PM PDT

•  It's OK Sen. Carper 60% want public option.

  And those "opt-out" plans? 66% DO NOT want states to be able to opt-out of the Public Option that 60% of public wants.

  by Zagzula on Wed Nov 18, 2009 at 01:43:29 PM PDT

•  We're so screwed.

  by akasha on Wed Nov 18, 2009 at 01:43:35 PM PDT

•  CBO Number: $849 Billion

  According to CNN that is the cost of the Healthcare Reform Bill that came back today.

  by Trial Lawyer Richard on Wed Nov 18, 2009 at 01:45:09 PM PDT

•  It's a bit silly...

  Doesn't anyone understand that the senate bill if passed similar to the form it is now is going to be worse than the House plan? The house bill has so many loopholes and problems and still keeps millions uninsured.
  Instead of fighting moderates and having conservatives hate everything we do, why not just go with Olympia Snowe on this one and take the Trigger Public Option. Doesn't ANYONE get that we have to wait till 2013 ANYWAY before we can implement the Public Option anyway???? Why not just give the Insurance Companies an ultimatum: either you clean up your act (very unlikely) or we will put a government run option to compete. We may even be able to implement it SOONER than 2013.

  We need to salvage what we can in reform. Its pretty clear that the country is leaning more to the right again unfortunately, thinking that they way to solve this problem ofhealth care is to vote for more republicans. WE NEED TO VOTE FOR MORE LIBERALS. but until then, lets pass what we can and get the support of a few republicans along the way.

  by mattyc313 on Wed Nov 18, 2009 at 01:45:12 PM PDT

•  Cantwell

  A few months back I wrote Sen Cantwell and asked her position on healthcare. I got back an email that said that she thought that co-ops were the way to go and had helped introduce a bill that covered them. Sadly I didn't save the email and since then I have received a couple of emails where it appears that she has backed away from that position and is backing the publie option. Naturally I have written and called her about this issue.

  I'm just curious if anyone knows her current position on co-ops. There is nothing at her site about them but I'm still curious and unhappily I am suspicious that she might be still supporting them. Does anyone know?

  by Kewalo on Wed Nov 18, 2009 at 01:47:10 PM PDT

•  The Senate bill is $849 billion!!

  CNN is reporting!  Still waiting for the official CBO report coming out later today.

  by Drdemocrat on Wed Nov 18, 2009 at 01:48:12 PM PDT

•  CBO score $849 billion!

  Suck Lieberman! What's your excuse now you little piece of shit!

  by roxsteady on Wed Nov 18, 2009 at 01:49:23 PM PDT

•  The CBO scored the Senate bill

  by LaurenMonica on Wed Nov 18, 2009 at 01:49:57 PM PDT

•  Stop calling them "centrists" and "moderates"...

  It's a lie. We all know that's a lie.

  by punditician on Wed Nov 18, 2009 at 01:57:30 PM PDT

•  Dear Ruascott

  The answer to your question is that people with employer provided health insurance cannot choose the public option.  The public option is only available to people who either have no health insurance or whose employer will not provide them with health insurance.  This means that the universe of people who can choose the public option is very small--the lowest estimate is that about 3-4 million people nationwide will choose the public option.  On the exchanges, people eligible to choose the public option can also choose to buy private insurance.  This makes the universe of people who will choose the public option even smaller.

  As a result, the idea that the public option will provide competition for the health insurance industry and thus drive down costs for health care is a joke.  Virtually all parts of the legislation aimed at controlling costs has been so weakened that we will, most assuredly, see the cost of health care exceed the rate of inflation by the 2.5 percent level that has been customary going back many years.

  All of the versions of this legislation are pieces of shit.  The so called progressives gave up fighting for meaningful reform long ago.  We have one more example of the inability of the political elites in this country getting anything of substance done.

  by SilkTreeLover on Wed Nov 18, 2009 at 02:04:42 PM PDT

•  Carper would make a great primary target.

  The seat is likely to stay blue regardless, so there's no need to have a corporate Dem in it.

  by Frameshift on Wed Nov 18, 2009 at 02:24:25 PM PDT

•  Let me translate

     "-We're-I'm concerned that a number of centrists I aren't prepared might not have any cover for failing to vote for a national public plan, even with and an opt-out isn't enough to satisfy my overlords in the insurance industry," Carper said in response to a question from TPMDC. "-We're- I'm trying to find something that addresses their concern about allows me to demagogue reform as government run, government-funded, but still addresses the need for the affordability needs and the need for more competition in states that don't have it without getting me skinned alive by my Democratic constituents."

     "What we're I'm asking centrists my staff is, What concerns do you need to have addressed excuses can you come up with so that you I can browbeat the rest of my caucus to vote for cloture on a shitty bill, either to bring the bill to the floor, or to take the bill off the floor and to go to conference? And the two concerns excuses we I keep hearing over and over again: government-run, government funded."

  He isn't coming up with a Plan B to get reform passed.  He's coming up with a way to prevent reform from being passed.  It's not the holdouts that bother him.  It's the momentum in favor of reform.

  by DelRPCV on Wed Nov 18, 2009 at 02:39:28 PM PDT

  •  Bingo.

    by JRandomPoster on Wed Nov 18, 2009 at 02:46:22 PM PDT