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Remarks by the President on STEM

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Mon Nov 23, 2009 at 12:35:09 PM PDT

Making good on remarks made last April before the National Academy of Sciences, President Obama officially launched an "Educate to Innovate" campaign to engage and improve the performance of America’s students in science, technology, engineering, and mathematics (STEM). Flanked by science and policy officials including astronaut Sally Ride, the President noted that many of our problems are at root scientific, and spoke of a new, comprehensive series of STEM programs to address them:

The key to meeting these challenges – improving our health and well being, harnessing clean energy, protecting our security, and succeeding in the global economy – will be reaffirming and strengthening America’s role as the world’s engine of scientific discovery and technological innovation. And that leadership tomorrow depends on how we educate our students today, especially in those fields that hold the promise of producing future innovations and innovators ... [Full text below]  

The President concluded with:


Melody Barnes, Director of the Domestic Policy Council for the President, was kind enough to spend a few minutes with me and added several comments which I thought were particularly insightful. Note that this is a personal transcript representing my notes and best recollection. Any errors are solely my responsibility:

Math and science teachers tell me that kids start out as natural scientists in primary/elementary school, but that we seem to lose a lot of them starting in middle school, does the STEM do anything about that?

Director Melody Barnes: You're right. My colleagues in education have talked about that as well. Some of the programs with partnerships announced today involve meeting students where they live and finding out first hand from students and teachers what excites them now and capitalize on that. If a student is interested in music for example, we'll introduce the science involved. Likewise, children love cell phones, lots of science there! We can capitalize on it as well. We're going to hold science fairs at the White House for students of many ages; teachers and students will be able to demonstrate their ingenuity. By making science more fun, rewarding, and cool, together with meeting our other benchmarks, the President's initiative will not only retain that early interest, we will build on it. [Full Q & A here or below]

  • ::

The president seemed to recognize that teachers are the single most important resource to a child’s learning. Saying in part "We will ensure that teachers are supported as professionals in the classroom, while also holding them more accountable." Can you speak to that and does this signal a break with NCLB?

Director Melody Barnes: I should state clearly, the President is very focused on this initiative. The President is also a parent; he is watching his own daughters' progress in school, and this is something be believes in strongly.

Teachers are the single most important resource in a child's education and the President campaigned on strengthening our schools. The STEM plays an important role in that strategy. Also embedded in the STEM are solutions to the critical need for teachers – in this program that means more science and math teachers. We are developing ways to make sure teachers have the certification needed (And reflected in No Child Left Behind). We're also developing and implementing ways to better evaluate student performance, and helping teachers stay up to par in providing exciting classrooms. We will support teachers, administrators and others with new resources and put more work into forging a connection with their work and student performance. One of the most exciting parts of all this is bringing in the private sector, both for resources and to show students what science and technology can mean for them and for the nation. What is a lab? It can be a place for children to feel excited about science.

So we want to look beyond the NCLB threshold and find even better ways to evaluate student and teacher performance.

Related to the above, math and science teachers tell me that kids start out as natural scientists in primary/elementary school, but that we seem to lose a lot of them starting in middle school, does the STEM do anything about that?

You're right. My colleagues in education have talked about that as well. Some of the programs with partnership announced today involve meeting students where they live and finding out first hand from students and teachers what excites them now and capitalize on that. If a student is interested in music for example, we'll introduce the science involved. Likewise, children love cell phones, lots of science there! We can capitalize on it as well. We're going to hold science fairs at the White House for students of many ages; teachers and students will be able to demonstrate their ingenuity. By making science more fun, rewarding, and cool, together with meeting our other benchmarks, the President's initiative will not only retain that early interest, we will build on it.

Inner cities and some low income rural areas experience a higher than average high school drop out rate, will this have any programs that might intervene in that loss?

Related to the above, if we can keep them engaged, they're less likely to drop out. In our 2010 budget we proposed a drop out intervention fund, graduating more and more students form high school. For those that have or do drop out, yes, we have to assist them to reenter, inclduing older students, even 18 or 19 who need to start at tenth grade. We'll work with community leaders and teachers to find ways to keep them in school and then develop ways to bring those who have dropped out back in. Community colleges will be key to getting students the credentials they need to go to college.

Is there anything else you'd like to add?

Only that this is something that is of great importance to the President and the result of many months of working with the National Academy of Science, educators, and other key experts. We announced it today but we've all been working on it from the beginning. Your readers can expect a sustained push in this area for years to come.

President Obama Nov 23, 2009, as prepared for delivery:

I’m excited to have you all here today. I want to thank the young people joining us, including students from Oakton High School. They’ll be demonstrating the "Cougar Cannon," designed to scoop up and toss moon rocks.  I’m eager to see what this thing can do – for two reasons. As President, I believe robotics can inspire young people to pursue science and engineering. And I want to keep an eye on the robots, in case they try anything.

It’s an honor to be joined by Sally Ride, the first American woman in space, and a person who has inspired a generation of girls and boys to think bigger and set their sights higher. I want to thank NASA for providing this interactive globe – an innovative and engaging way of teaching young people about our world. Welcome, Mythbusters; I hope you guys left the explosives at home. And finally, allow me to thank the many leaders here today who have agreed to be part of this historic effort to inspire and educate a new generation in math and science.

We live in a world of unprecedented perils and unparalleled potential. Our medical system holds the promise of unlocking new cures – but it’s attached to a health care system that is bankrupting families, businesses, and our government. The sources of energy that power our economy also endanger our planet. We confront threats to our security that seek to exploit the very openness that is essential to our prosperity. And we face challenges in a global marketplace that link the trader on Wall Street to the homeowner on Main Street, and the office worker in America to the factory worker in China – an economy in which we all share in opportunity, but also share in crisis.

The key to meeting these challenges – improving our health and wellbeing, harnessing clean energy, protecting our security, and succeeding in the global economy – will be reaffirming and strengthening America’s role as the world’s engine of scientific discovery and technological innovation. And that leadership tomorrow depends on how we educate our students today, especially in those fields that hold the promise of producing future innovations and innovators. That’s why education in science and math is so important.

But the hard truth is that for decades we’ve been losing ground. One assessment shows American fifteen year olds now ranked 21st in science and 25th in math when compared to their peers around the world. This isn’t news. We’ve seen worrying statistics like this for years. Yet, time and again, we’ve let partisanship and petty bickering stand in the way of progress. Time and again, as a nation, we’ve let our children down. Well, I am here – and you are here – because we cannot allow division and indifference to imperil our position in the world. It’s time for all of us – in Washington and across America – to take responsibility for our future.

That’s why I am committed to moving our country from the middle to the top of the pack in science and math education over the next decade. To meet this goal, the Recovery Act included the largest investment in education in history while preventing hundreds of thousands of educators from being fired because of state budget shortfalls. And under our outstanding Secretary of Education, Arne Duncan, we’ve launched a $4 billion "Race to the Top" fund, one of the largest investments in education reform in history.

Through Race to the Top, states won’t just receive funding; they’ll have to compete for funding. And in this competition, producing the most innovative programs in math and science will be an advantage. In addition, we are challenging states to improve achievement by raising standards, using data to better inform decisions, and taking new approaches to turn around struggling schools. And because a great teacher is the single most important factor in a great education, we’re asking states to focus on teacher effectiveness and to make it possible for professionals – like many of the folks in this room – to bring their experience and enthusiasm into the classroom.

But you are here because you know that the success we seek will not be attained by government alone.  It depends on the dedication of students and parents, and the commitment of private citizens, organizations, and companies. It depends on all of us. That’s why, back in April, at the National Academy of Sciences, I issued a challenge: to encourage folks to think of new and creative ways of engaging young people in science and engineering. We are here because the leaders in this room answered that call to action.

Today, we are launching the "Educate to Innovate" campaign, a nationwide effort to help reach the goal this administration has set: moving to the top in science and math education in the next decade. We’ve got leaders from private companies and universities, foundations and non-profits, and organizations representing millions of scientists, engineers, and teachers from across America. The initial commitment of the private sector to this campaign is more than $260 million – and we only expect the campaign to grow.

Business leaders from Intel, Xerox, Kodak, and Time Warner Cable are teaming up with Sally Ride, the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation, and the Carnegie Corporation to find and replicate successful science, math, and technology programs all across America. Sesame Street has begun a two-year initiative to teach young kids about math and science. And Discovery Communications is going to deliver interactive science content to 60,000 schools reaching 35 million students.

These efforts extend beyond the classroom. Time Warner Cable is joining with the Coalition for Science After School and FIRST Robotics – the program created by inventor Dean Kamen, which gave us the "Cougar Cannon" – to connect one million students with fun after-school activities, like robotics competitions. The MacArthur Foundation and industry leaders like Sony are launching a nationwide challenge to design compelling, freely-available, science-related video games. And organizations representing teachers, scientists, mathematicians, and engineers – joined by volunteers in the community – are participating in a grassroots effort called "National Lab Day" to reach ten million young people with hands-on learning. Students will launch rockets, construct miniature windmills, and get their hands dirty. They will have the chance to build and create and maybe destroy just a little bit – to see the promise of being the makers of things, not just the consumers of things.

The administration is participating as well. We’ve already had a number of science-focused events with young people at the White House, including Astronomy Night a few weeks ago. The National Science Foundation and the Department of Energy, under the leadership of a terrific scientist, Steven Chu, have launched an initiative to inspire tens of thousands of students to pursue careers in clean energy.

And today, I’m announcing that we’re going to have an annual science fair at the White House with the winners of national competitions in science and technology. If you win the NCAA championship, you come to the White House. Well, if you are a young person and you’ve produced the best experiment or design, the best hardware or software, you ought to be recognized for that achievement too.  Scientists and engineers ought to stand side-by-side with athletes and entertainers as role models, and here at the White House we’re going to lead by example. We’re going to show young people how cool science can be.

Through these efforts, we are going to expand the scope and scale of science and math education all across America. And we’re going to expand opportunities for all of our young people – including women and minorities who too often have been underrepresented in scientific and technological fields, but who are no less capable of succeeding in math and science and pursuing careers that will help improve our lives and grow our economy. I also want to note: this is only the beginning. We’re going to challenge the private sector to partner with community colleges, for example, to help train the workers of today for the jobs of tomorrow, even as we make college more affordable – so that, by 2020, America once again leads the world in producing college graduates.

Of course, we can’t let students off the hook. In the end, the success of this campaign depends on them. But I believe strongly that America’s young people will rise to the challenge if given the opportunity. We’ve just got to work together to create those opportunities – because our future depends on it. Everyone in this room understands how important science and math can be. And it goes beyond the facts in a biology textbook or the questions on an algebra quiz. It’s about our ability to understand our world: to harness and train that human capacity to solve problems and think critically, a set of skills that informs the decisions we make throughout our lives.

Yes, improving education in math and science is about producing engineers and researchers, scientists and innovators, who will help transform our economy and our lives for the better. But it is also about something more. It’s about expanding opportunity for all Americans in a world where an education is increasingly the key to success. It’s about an informed citizenry in an era when many of the problems we face as a nation are, at root, scientific problems. And it’s about the power of science to not only unlock new discoveries, but to unlock in the minds of our young people a sense of promise, a sense that with just a little hard work – with just a little effort – they have the potential to achieve extraordinary things.

This is a difficult time for our country. And it would be easy to grow cynical, to wonder if America’s best days are behind us – especially at a time of economic uncertainty, especially when we have seen so many, from Wall Street to Washington, fail to take responsibility for so long. But I believe we have an opportunity now to move beyond the failures of the recent past – to recapture that spirit of American innovation and optimism. For this nation wasn’t built on greed and reckless risk, on short-term gains and short-sighted policies. It was forged of stronger stuff, by bold men and women who dared to invent something new or improve something old – who took big chances on big ideas, who believed that in America all things are possible. That is our history. And, if we remain fixed on the work ahead, if we build on the progress we’ve made today, this will be our legacy as well.

Thank you all very much.

Tags: stem (all tags) :: Previous Tag Versions

Permalink | 131 comments

  •  SCIENCE! (10+ / 0-)

    It works, bitches!

    ... and furthermore, Conan O'Brien should burn Jay Leno to the ground.

    by droogie6655321 on Mon Nov 23, 2009 at 12:38:23 PM PDT

  •  POTUS is a Trekkie! Yay science. (6+ / 0-)

    I ♥ President Barack Obama.

    by ericlewis0 on Mon Nov 23, 2009 at 12:38:50 PM PDT

  •  The Rs will be against it. (9+ / 0-)

    I'm layin lumber on it.

    Let's outlaw bacon, too.

    What do you expect? Our national anthem is a drinking tune.

    by OleHippieChick on Mon Nov 23, 2009 at 12:38:55 PM PDT

  •  8th grade wrote "science" class lost my kids (2+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    DarkSyde, Krush

    Science needs to be taught based on  observations, exploration and ideas. Wrote memorization may be needed for med students but it's horrid science teaching because wrote memorization is the opposite of science.

    look for my DK Greenroots diary series Thursday evening. "It's the planet, stupid."

    by FishOutofWater on Mon Nov 23, 2009 at 12:39:49 PM PDT

  •  How do you sell this... (0+ / 0-)

    To the anti-evelution crowd?  

    •  You don't. You bypass them. (1+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      HorseThief

      Eventually, the Chinese will buy the anti-evolution crowd to be kept as housepets and zoo attractions.  

      We need to concentrate on making America safe to be ruled by people with fully functional brains so that at least some of us can maintain our autonomy.

      "Don't worry! Our Health Care Bill is going to a big farm, where it will have plenty of room to run around!" --attributed to Barack Obama

      by AdmiralNaismith on Mon Nov 23, 2009 at 01:45:23 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  What about funding for higher ed? (5+ / 0-)

    I have a relative who was accepted to Penn State for electrical engineering but who probably won't be able to attend because of the cost. The ridiculously high cost of college is resulting in wasted talents and dreams denied.

    •  NSF and other agencies have a lot (1+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      beltane

      of money out there.  It just has to be ferreted out.  One of the White House Fellows under the last guy had as his project a clearinghouse for government funding information.  I don't know if that ever happened but your relative should start with NSF.  Good luck!

      Excellence is to do a common thing in an uncommon way. Booker T. Washington

      by conlakappa on Mon Nov 23, 2009 at 12:54:03 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  At Cal State Los Angeles, where ... (5+ / 0-)

      ...my step-daughter just transferred this autumn after completing community college, 400 of the new students who had already been admitted and paid their tuition and fees were told at the end of orientation that budget problems meant they could not attend this term. The university gave them their money back.

      Whole programs at community colleges and in the Cal State system are being eliminated, staffing cut, more adjunct teachers employed in place of full timers. This spells short- and long-term disaster if something isn't done. Given the possible $20 billion deficit the state may be facing (other states have big problems, too), if some relief doesn't come from Washington (and soon), the catastrophe that ensues will have an impact for many years, not just for the individuals affected but for society at large.

      I refuse to accept "no can do" as a proper slogan for progressives.

      by Meteor Blades on Mon Nov 23, 2009 at 12:54:04 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  It's great to focus on this (7+ / 0-)

    but if we're not also focusing on our universities, then we'll never get there from here.

    Fact is a lot of these researchers will be coming to America from overseas. That's always how we maintained our role as innovators despite our scientific illiteracy.

    Our universities are imploding, especially in places like California where a lot of this research is done.

    Science and math are so important for our kids, but there's such a huge gap there and the work ethic of our students is relatively poor, and I worry we can't get there from where we are if our focus doesn't include buttressing our university systems.

    I really think we need to accept the fact that our innovation in the future depends on being an open and tolerant society where foreigners want to come to study and do research. America was a leader because we always got the best from all over the world, not just here in America. We have to keep offering them scholarships. We can't turn insular and believe that American students are capable of getting it all done in terms of the important research we do at our most innovative universities.

    •  I (4+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      Turkana, max stirner, ericlewis0, nj devil

      didn;t ask about that, I should have. Great topic to bring up in the future and see what they have in stre there. It sounds like they've been working on this for months though and I wouldn't be surprised if they have plans in that regard. My take in chatting with them is that Obama and his advisers are all absolutely dead set that education is the key to the future of young people and the future of our nation.

    •  Diary this! n/t (4+ / 0-)

      I refuse to accept "no can do" as a proper slogan for progressives.

      by Meteor Blades on Mon Nov 23, 2009 at 12:46:20 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Dunno, for too long the emphasis has been (3+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      askew, Brooke In Seattle, nj devil

      on universities without ensuring that the pipeline was already taken care of by K-12 institutions.

      Excellence is to do a common thing in an uncommon way. Booker T. Washington

      by conlakappa on Mon Nov 23, 2009 at 01:05:54 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I think it just boils down to the pool of (1+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        conlakappa

        students you're drawing from.

        In the end, the US is only 300 million people. Our talent pool is further drained by the relative religiosity of our country. Many parents just won't permit their kids to really digest science. The talent pool is further drained by the reality that liberals and educated adults tend to have fewer kids, so our students are more and more either extremely poor (and therefore not getting all the support they need to be learners) or coming from white Evangelical/Christian homes where learning and especially science isn't a focus.

        We really need a larger pool of talent to draw from than just the one we have here in the US. I think it just boils down to numbers.

        •  Hands-on science at a young age wouldn't (1+ / 0-)

          Recommended by:
          nj devil

          necessarily get into the issues that the evangelical crowd finds taboo.  Even they have to accept plant growth and butterflies, no?  Getting all kids to be good early learners might help in not creating a bunch of kids who self-select out of it.  I'm one of those people.  I hated the science that we did but found out years later from my 4th grade science teacher that I was a good science student.  Unfortunately, we weren't touching stuff so it didn't engage me.  Years later I worked on a project that was fun and interactive for kids who just latched onto the learning.

          If the manifestation of my temper were true, I'd have gotten into a knock-down, drag-out fight with a corporate recruiter who was going on and on about there just not being enough STEM students in the US to fill jobs and blah, blah, blah H-1B visas.  When I pressed her on it further, she admitted that they were only looking at students from schools in the top 5%.

          Excellence is to do a common thing in an uncommon way. Booker T. Washington

          by conlakappa on Mon Nov 23, 2009 at 01:24:14 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  I guess the reality is that to maintain (0+ / 0-)

            our position in the world we've gotta be doing both.

            We've really got to make some progress on creating innovators here at home AND keeping people coming from overseas. I'm pretty sure that expecting employers to lower standards just to employ Americans isn't the right way to go though.

            •  Anyone below 5% isn't necessarily lowering (1+ / 0-)

              Recommended by:
              nj devil

              standards.  I'd only ask them to accurately reflect the information rather than being precious, alarmist, disingenuous, and outright lying.  There are plenty of corporations that had been getting involved at the incubating phase.  Merck was doing and funding cool stuff for K-8 and others have put top-notch labs in 2-year colleges.

              Excellence is to do a common thing in an uncommon way. Booker T. Washington

              by conlakappa on Mon Nov 23, 2009 at 01:40:01 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

    •  USA's temporary advantage in science and tech (3+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      raboof, johnfire, nj devil

      'Mercans are very proud of our achievements in science and technology, such as the atom bomb and putting a man on the moon.  However, what they fail to take into account is that many of these were achieved by European scientists fleeing Facist and Nazi Europe in the 1930s, such as a Albert Einstein and Enrico Fermi.  There was a great push in USA science and math in the 1950s when the "space race" was on, and lots of excitement in the 1960s with the Gemini and Apollo programs, but all that crumbled in the Viet-Nam and Watergate years and it's been downhill ever since.

      I love Patrick McGoohan's line in Ice Station Zebra (1968):

      The Russians put our camera made by our German scientists and your film made by your German scientists into their satellite made by their German scientists.

      'Merca has always had suspicion of and contempt for learning.  The standard quotes are: "If you so smart, why ain't you rich?" and "Those who can, do.  Those who can't, teach".  A far cry from Europe and Asia where teachers are respected and revered.

      Big Joe Helton: "I pay Plenty."
      Chico Marx: "Well, then we're Plenty Tough."

      by Caelian on Mon Nov 23, 2009 at 01:13:14 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Yes, we have a long tradition of being a refuge (1+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        Caelian

        for the world's intelligentsia.

        If we let the Glenn Becks and the Sarah Palins run the country, foreigners will simply stop coming, and our innovation industry will crumble even further.

        Once that's gone, we've got nothing left. Absolutely nothing.

        •  I hate to break the news to you (2+ / 0-)

          Recommended by:
          Brooke In Seattle, nj devil

          but i was a Tau Beta Pi Engineer, and left for germany 3 years ago. there is a small trickle of other people doing likewise. generally well educated left wing types with connections to europe, but there is clearly something going on...

          Welcome to the empire. now run away if you can... life is not a dress rehearsal

          by johnfire on Mon Nov 23, 2009 at 01:19:50 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Yes, the world is becoming more balanced (0+ / 0-)

            in this respect and I think we're going to struggle to keep our own researchers much less draw them in from overseas.

            Probably we'll need to be focusing on countries like China and India which produce researchers but who's living conditions still may not be what they are in the US.

            I dunno. I'm not a scientist myself. I just know that we need to be bringing in people from overseas because Americans just aren't literate enough to get it done on our own.

          •  PS, as a left wing type I've been mulling (0+ / 0-)

            the same type of move for years.

            The only thing holding me back is that I actually work for a foreigner who came here, started a business, became very successful, and then became a US citizen... so the office environment is a lot like it is in Europe. Many of our American employees either lived in Europe or studied there. Having that broader outlook is critical to getting the jobs we get.

            •  you are lucky (1+ / 0-)

              Recommended by:
              nj devil

              i couldnt find anything when i was back in the states for 9 months. i think my grey hair had a lot to do with it...

              Welcome to the empire. now run away if you can... life is not a dress rehearsal

              by johnfire on Mon Nov 23, 2009 at 01:30:39 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  I'm sure it did. (0+ / 0-)

                Employers are being pretty nasty nowadays. And grey hair means higher potential healthcare costs and benefit expectations I guess.

                I know from talking to some corporate insiders that not all of it is necessary either, and many companies are going beyond where they really need to and using the economy as an excuse to purge their staff of people with benefits. Of course they'll just replace those people with independent contractors or young people who have been terrorized into accepting jobs with no benefits whatsoever.

                I'm very unhappy with corporate America and their unpatriotic reaction to this crisis.

                •  i totally agree (1+ / 0-)

                  Recommended by:
                  nj devil

                  thats one of the reasons i went and found a new country. as a vet it makes me really sad, but what else can you do...

                  Welcome to the empire. now run away if you can... life is not a dress rehearsal

                  by johnfire on Mon Nov 23, 2009 at 01:37:55 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  Hey, more and more that's what this world will (0+ / 0-)

                    be about. Surrounding yourself with people who share your values, irrespective of the geographic location.

                    I don't blame you in the slightest. Obama is great, but as we all see, he's not going to miraculously change the fundamental anti-worker character of the people in this country, especially the wealthy employers who tend to be Republicans.

                    •  thanks. (1+ / 0-)

                      Recommended by:
                      nj devil

                      its nice to hear that. i have had a lot of american mbas (i did my MBA here in 2006 2007) tell me im a traitor for leaving and liking it here better. at least i have decent health care here, more than i can say for the states...

                      Welcome to the empire. now run away if you can... life is not a dress rehearsal

                      by johnfire on Mon Nov 23, 2009 at 01:42:39 PM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  They're just jealous they didn't have the guts (0+ / 0-)

                        to go for broke and make the move. And if not and they actually believe in that traitor nonsense... who cares, right?

                        G'luck.

                        Shoes.

                        (that's my phonetic pronunciation of tschüs)

              •  I do feel lucky (0+ / 0-)

                and even luckier that I have the type of boss who I can actually tell that I shouldn't be expected to feel lucky, who doesn't expect me to beg and scrape just to keep my job in this economy.

                Decent employers with decent values who actually value workers... it's like finding a needle in a haystack in this country. Sad that mine had to come from Europe just to "get it."

      •  nothing truer could have been said. (1+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        Caelian

        it was German scientists that directed the moon effort.
        there were a number of foreigners on the atom bomb project.

        the so called american advantage in this area is a total myth...

        Welcome to the empire. now run away if you can... life is not a dress rehearsal

        by johnfire on Mon Nov 23, 2009 at 01:21:00 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  both are important (2+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      DarkSyde, nj devil

      This isn't either/or. The US has to work on both the k-12 part of science education and the university level.

      I disagree that the cream of science at the universities comes from abroad. The US produces great scientists, remarkable considering the state of K-12 education. US universities are considered far-and-away the best in the world. They attract the best both domestically and from abroad. This must be maintained.

      I also disagree with some commenters that students at the k-12 level have to be taught to be little scientists and explore. Exploration is part of all academic areas. Walling off exploration into poorly conceived science 'labs' doesn't achieve much. It usually does the opposite, and makes science seem geeky. Things like science fairs are much better. But science is fundamentally about understanding, which is a mix of self-discovery, instruction and demonstration. Its not much different from other areas of education.

      I thought Obama's speech was great. All the right points.

    •  Because California won't fund education (2+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      Caelian, johnfire, nj devil

      Gropenfuhrer and his buddies would rather continue to cut taxes at the cost of bankrupting our most populous state than maintain Universities like Berkeley and Davis that used to be the envy of the world.

      And that's what they do in the BLUE states. At least 15 Southern and prairie states actively seek to stamp out learning, as a tool of the Devil.

      "Don't worry! Our Health Care Bill is going to a big farm, where it will have plenty of room to run around!" --attributed to Barack Obama

      by AdmiralNaismith on Mon Nov 23, 2009 at 01:31:59 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Thank you, thank you, thank you! (0+ / 0-)

    Here are the reasons (highlighted parts) why I was hoping to see this fp-ed:

    Yes, improving education in math and science is about producing engineers and researchers, scientists and innovators, who will help transform our economy and our lives for the better. But it is also about something more. It’s about expanding opportunity for all Americans in a world where an education is increasingly the key to success. It’s about an informed citizenry in an era when many of the problems we face as a nation are, at root, scientific problems. And it’s about the power of science to not only unlock new discoveries, but to unlock in the minds of our young people a sense of promise, a sense that with just a little hard work – with just a little effort – they have the potential to achieve extraordinary things.

    [...]

    But I believe we have an opportunity now to move beyond the failures of the recent past – to recapture that spirit of American innovation and optimism. For this nation wasn’t built on greed and reckless risk, on short-term gains and short-sighted policies. It was forged of stronger stuff, by bold men and women who dared to invent something new or improve something old – who took big chances on big ideas, who believed that in America all things are possible. That is our history.

  •  Science Club in JHS (2+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    Caelian, AdmiralNaismith

    Where you learn really neat things like

    1. How to build an A-Bomb

    or

    1. Make LSD

    or

    1. Where babies come from in really gory detail

    depending on who the science adviser is.

    but seriously it is important.

    Afghanistan:Graveyard to empires-It's not just a bumpersticker

    by JML9999 on Mon Nov 23, 2009 at 12:46:49 PM PDT

  •  Simple fact (2+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    Caelian, TJ

    People like using the stuff engineers design. That does not translate into wanting to do the very hard work required to be able to design stuff.

    The key to raising interest in STEM is raising the prestige of having a good education and of these professions. Kids are not going to work as hard as is required for these fields if they don't pay better and don't have any more prestige than a degree in Business Administration. I took accounting and econ classes as an undergrad; they are roughly 1/10th as difficult as equivalent level math, engineering, and computer science classes.

    In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice; but in practice, there always is a difference. - Yogi Berra

    by blue aardvark on Mon Nov 23, 2009 at 12:46:54 PM PDT

    •  How many BS are driving taxis? (1+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      Brooke In Seattle

      Quite a few.  This kind of thing will make the educational establishment happy and will help the students educational well-being but won't have any real effect.

      •  Re: How many BS are driving taxis? (0+ / 0-)

        I was told by the guy behind the counter at the car rental agency that he needed a college degree to get that job. That tells you a little something about what corporate America thinks of your increasingly expensive college education.

  •  Obama's wrong. The key to our future is (2+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    Caelian, AdmiralNaismith

    keeping the effin' Republicans out of power. That's Obama's primary and most sacred responsibility. He better figure that out fast, for all our sakes.

  •  It sure is terrific to have ... (0+ / 0-)

    ...a President who, unlike his predecessor, actually thinks science matters. It will take a lot more than "educate to innovate" to get America where it needs to be in this regard, but it nonetheless seems like an excellent approach.

    I refuse to accept "no can do" as a proper slogan for progressives.

    by Meteor Blades on Mon Nov 23, 2009 at 12:49:41 PM PDT

  •  He just couldn't care less (4+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    askew, vcmvo2, Seeds, Sun dog

    about the Palins of the world or those who - amazingly enough - actually want him to be more like that woman. He will not dumb down and he'll continue to think long term.

    You should all see the complete video, he went off script a few times, and those were the best lines.

    "We have a good guy in the White House, a smart man, a man of profound ideals and dignity. A champion". - Garrison Keillor

    by blackwaterdog on Mon Nov 23, 2009 at 12:50:24 PM PDT

  •  Yeah, but... (6+ / 0-)

    ...when the big bucks go to MBAs, and science funding is constantly threatened with drastic cuts, what's the incentive for someone to go into science or mathematics as a career? Sheer love makes for a pretty miserable life when your reward for brilliant research is Mac 'n' Cheese.
  •  Engineering jobs (6+ / 0-)

    The biggest problem facing math and science education is that smart students wonder what, exactly, is the point of studying math and science when all the engineering jobs are being exported to India and China where engineers cost 10-20% of what they cost in the USA.

    So they go into "high finance" instead.  Of course, that'll collapse as well if USA doesn't get back to actually making things.

    Another big problem facing engineering education is that you can't take things apart to see how they work any more.  You open up a typical product nowadays and there's just a couple of surface-mount ICs.  Great way to stifle curiosity.

    Big Joe Helton: "I pay Plenty."
    Chico Marx: "Well, then we're Plenty Tough."

    by Caelian on Mon Nov 23, 2009 at 12:54:50 PM PDT

    •  need to avoid the education=job meme (0+ / 0-)

      for me, our problem in this country is not about numbers of people in certain majors. its about how seriously we all take science education. its too easy here to duck the hard sciences, and its too common that once people get past a certain point in high school or college, they never take another minute of rigorous science or math education.

      i have no problem with "smart" people studying finance or whatever else they want to while in school. I just wish they'd double that up with a biology/chemistry/physics/mathmatics degree too. greater exposure of the actually "doing" of science it was we need at all levels of our education system. goes for the teachers too.

      •  How Do You Incentivise A Kid To Do The Work? (6+ / 0-)

        When there is no tangible reward at the end of the tunnel? Kids aren't stupid, they see the writing on the wall. I am an electrical engineer (actually my degree is ee but by trade I am a software engineer). I encouraged my nephews to not pursue engineering because I knew what was in store for them.

        The biggest problem facing math and science education is that smart students wonder what, exactly, is the point of studying math and science when all the engineering jobs are being exported to India and China where engineers cost 10-20% of what they cost in the USA

        You don't address the point being made above. My nephews work in food service/bartender positions, I am much more comfortable with them in these positions than I would be with them currently in any engineering program, because I know that their job cannot be offshored.

        In my humble opinion education is not the answer, because it doesn't address some fundamental issues:

        1.) Innovation, over the long term will employ fewer people, not more

        2.) The Japanese and Chinese can educate there people too

        3.) The cost of an engineer in India is about 1/6th (?) of the cost of an engineer in the U.S. The cost of an engineer in China is even less.

        and so on ...

        If the terriers and bariffs are torn down, this economy will grow - G. Bush

        by superscalar on Mon Nov 23, 2009 at 01:18:38 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  FYI, actual numbers (2+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      shanikka, squarewheel

      According to Geek Times, a Chinese engineer costs 13% the cost of a USA engineer.  Indian engineers cost 19%.

      The EE Times survey shows the mean total compensation for engineers in North America is approximately $116,800 annually, compared with $79,000 for Japanese respondents and $75,400 for Europeans. By contrast, engineers in China and India make about $15,600 and $22,000, per year, respectively.

      Big Joe Helton: "I pay Plenty."
      Chico Marx: "Well, then we're Plenty Tough."

      by Caelian on Mon Nov 23, 2009 at 01:31:07 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  A kid wrote me a thank-you note (4+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    riverlover, DarkSyde, vcmvo2, conlakappa

    for a donation to HPE's Inoculation Project with Donor's Choice.

    Science Rocks!

    Earns no money here for blogging, commenting, or driving traffic to any web site.

    by mem from somerville on Mon Nov 23, 2009 at 12:55:49 PM PDT

  •  Back when he wasn't a turncoat, (2+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    askew, vcmvo2

    Lieberdoofus was a Senate leader on STEM education.  That he decided to double down on douchbaggery and ego means that he misses out on being a part of things like this.  His loss.

    Excellence is to do a common thing in an uncommon way. Booker T. Washington

    by conlakappa on Mon Nov 23, 2009 at 12:57:40 PM PDT

    •  At The Same Time (1+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      raboof

      Lieberdoofus was a Senate leader on STEM education

      Lieberdoofus was a leading proponent of importing engineers thru the H1B/L1 guest-worker visa program, as well as Dianne Feinstein, John Kerry, as well as virtually all of the leading Senate Democrats.

      If the terriers and bariffs are torn down, this economy will grow - G. Bush

      by superscalar on Mon Nov 23, 2009 at 01:33:03 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Part of that push came from industry (1+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        squarewheel

        lying about the "shortage," though.  I still don't think it diminishes his trying to work on the pipeline issues.  Unfortunately, his STEM education bill was set to be released on September 11, 2001.

        Excellence is to do a common thing in an uncommon way. Booker T. Washington

        by conlakappa on Mon Nov 23, 2009 at 01:43:42 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  That's great! (2+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    askew, mem from somerville

    And the annual science fair at the White House? brilliant!

    Men often oppose a thing merely because they have had no agency in planning it, or because it may have been planned by those whom they dislike. A. Hamilton ~

    by vcmvo2 on Mon Nov 23, 2009 at 12:57:58 PM PDT

  •  um lets not forget (5+ / 0-)

    history, language, culture, civics, government and economics. i know plenty of engineers that are ok engineers but have no greater context to place their work in. that is not a good system...

    Welcome to the empire. now run away if you can... life is not a dress rehearsal

    by johnfire on Mon Nov 23, 2009 at 12:58:53 PM PDT

    •  My (1+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      vcmvo2

      take is they're down n edu for everyone and every subject. If you look at the background of Obama and his advisers, a lot of em are degreed up the yin-yang. This isn't something they think is good for other people, this is somehting they know has been good for them.

    •  Agreed (1+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      Brooke In Seattle

      We need to be better in science and math, but there's also a huge problem in that out students don't know history or how to evaluate an argument.  Hell, they don't know how the government is supposed to work, or how to design or build a liveable city.

      I teach at a university, and the biggest problem I have with my students is a lack of critical thinking skills.

      To believe that markets determine value is to believe that milk comes from plastic bottles. Bromley (1985)

      by sneakers563 on Mon Nov 23, 2009 at 01:05:17 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  i used to teach physics as a TA (2+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        Brooke In Seattle, sneakers563

        I agree. critical thinking skills are woefully lacking in American students. I live and work in Europe right now and the difference is extremely noticeable. I dont know how you teach that without teaching English, History, Logic, etc...

        Welcome to the empire. now run away if you can... life is not a dress rehearsal

        by johnfire on Mon Nov 23, 2009 at 01:15:53 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  But that Brings Us Full Circle (1+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        sneakers563

        Because our current educational systems emphasize standardization instead of critical thinking.  That doesn't bode well for science education OR any of the other disciplines where no matter how you slice it, there are no hard and fast "rules" which can be memorized and spit out at will.

        Truthfully if what we want is innovators, we jettison most of the idea that test taking other than at benchmark periods (not every year) is a valid measure of whether children are learning, and hearken back to a system of education which was more holistic, yet furthered more creative thinking (i.e. how many of us older than a certain age recall at least one teacher mentioning the mechanics of the human body as part of gym class as well what we were learning in 8th grade biology?)

        I don't see this administration really seriously challenging all the dogma that has led to our country's decrepit state education-wise:  it's all about "measurement" and "better teachers" and "engaged parents" and nothing at all about WHAT children are being asked to do in school.  Most kids over a certain age are, frankly, underperforming because they are jaded.  Particularly in low income schools.  They've heard the official party line (you need education) and then see many around them who have been unemployed, outsourced, devalued despite having an education.  We don't tie education to what people DO anymore in this country and I do believe that it's a major factor in why we are de-intellectualizing increasingly once all but the elite students get past middle school.  They don't see the relevance or the return, and those days where "Education for Education's sake" was taught as a value are rapidly becoming part of our past.

        All IMO and YMMV of course.

        If you don't stand for something, you will go for anything. Visit Maat's Feather

        by shanikka on Mon Nov 23, 2009 at 02:05:32 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  I agree with a lot of what you've written (0+ / 0-)

          I worry though, about tying education to tightly to what people do.  I feel like the push for science and math education is part of a movement to see education, and the value of individuals, solely in terms of economic productivity.  Americans are, by and large, poorly educated in many ways.  Why single out math and science?  Presumably because the ability for an individual to contribute to the economy is the most important aspect of that individual.

          I'd like to see a much broader education, grounded in a liberal conception of "the basics".  The smartest person I've ever known had learned things like philosophy, logic and latin in addition to math, english, etc.  It was amazing: whenever he was exposed to a new idea, he already knew a great deal about it.  He understood the history, where it fit in relation to other ideas, an entire meta knowledge.
           
          I completely agree with you about standardized testing.  The standardized test is a way to reduce everything to quantitative measurement and objective, statistical analysis.  But of course, all measurement involves simplification and we can see the results.

          It's interesting, people talk about the Bush administration as being anti-science, but they weren't really.  Rather, they subscribed to a kind of extremist Popperian view of science.  You can see it in the completely quantitative way they approached evaluation, and at times you could see it in the way they approached climate change.  Bush didn't reject the ability of science to say anything about the climate, rather any kind of counter evidence was immediately trumpeted as grounds for disproving the entire hypothesis.  7th grade scientific method run amok.

           

          To believe that markets determine value is to believe that milk comes from plastic bottles. Bromley (1985)

          by sneakers563 on Mon Nov 23, 2009 at 06:15:07 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

  •  If they can't read and write in proper English (8+ / 0-)

    they aren't going to be passing high level science and engineering classes either.

    Please stop ignoring the screaming need for English and language arts classes as well as any math or science courses.

    And, oh by the way, are there going to be JOBS for these people when they graduate with their student loan debt?

    Because there are plenty of us out here with advanced degrees, and we can't get hired no matter what.

    You've outsourced and off-shored all the good jobs.

    Let's talk about getting some jobs back in this country that STAY here before we get all misty-eyed over more education.

    I saw a quote from the White House this morning on jobs creation -- and Obama doesn't seem to think that we need to do anything but give tax cuts to small businesses.

    Small businesses aren't going to hire eight million people and pay them a living wage -- and I don't mean a freaking $10 per hour job like lots of small businesses think they are doing employees a big damn favor to pay.

    "The difference between the right word and the almost-right word is like the difference between lightning and the lightning bug." -- Mark Twain

    by Brooke In Seattle on Mon Nov 23, 2009 at 01:04:51 PM PDT

    •  i have seen some engineers (2+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      shanikka, Brooke In Seattle

      with really really horrible english skills. it really messes up engineering documents. also might have caused a project to fail when i worked at intel, a 40k page architecture document that was basically totally unreadable...

      Welcome to the empire. now run away if you can... life is not a dress rehearsal

      by johnfire on Mon Nov 23, 2009 at 01:09:29 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  I (1+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      askew

      don't think they're going to ignore the humanities by any means. This struck me as more an effort to stress science and math in a larger edu context, probably motivated by the fact that it is in science and math where US students could most improve and in which the applications can have considerable economic leverage.

      •  As I said -- education is nice. Where are jobs? (9+ / 0-)

        There are literally millions of us already trained in advanced areas, and we have no jobs because we are over 50 or too expensive because we expect to be paid for our education and experience.

        Plenty of IT people here, EEs, and other engineer types. Know what they have in common? They are all unemployed.

        I see nothing in this idea that fixes that.

        We are already quite educated in this country, but we are still out of work because corporations aren't going to hire an American if they can get someone overseas for half the price.

        And those companies involved in this! Hilarious! Intel just shut one plant in Texas and moved it to New York state because their tax abatements expired. Xerox and Kodak did the same thing. Screw the communities left behind. And Gates is the biggest whiner about needing more H1-B visas in the whole country. And Time Warner? Busy throttling the Internet and trying to dismantle net neutrality.

        And Arne Duncan is the worst choice Obama could have made for Ed. Sec. The man is a total NCLB shill. I don't trust him as far as I could throw him.

        Likewise, depending on community colleges to make students ready for the university?

        Please.

        I taught English on both levels. At the CC, the idea is to run students through the classes as fast as possible with the minimum amount of work. Then they are supposedly "ready" to go on.

        And having also taught on the university level, I know from experience that neither the high schools nor the community colleges are preparing students properly.

        "The difference between the right word and the almost-right word is like the difference between lightning and the lightning bug." -- Mark Twain

        by Brooke In Seattle on Mon Nov 23, 2009 at 01:20:34 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  OK, so lets just stop funding education and (1+ / 0-)

          Recommended by:
          askew

          use the money to fight more wars.  That way, the U.S. economy will continue to crater & China will start to export jobs to the U.S. Sounds like a good plan to me.

          Fixing our STEM "problems" does take more than a website for "National Lab Day," but at least it is a start.

    •  Yep, the Elephant in the room (2+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      Caelian, Norm in Chicago

      is now Jobs. I am thankful every day that my two semi-adult children are both employed. One graduated from a technical university in May with no job, and did get one, for about $20K less than he had been expecting. One never made it to college (yet) but moved seamlessly from retail to a health-related job in the last five months. That, after looking for a job in HC-related for about 100 resumes.

      If college is all that some people think it's racked up to be, how come so many students come out with debt loads equivalent to a mortgage on a starter house?

      Americans, while occasionally willing to be serfs, have always been obstinate about being peasantry. F. Scott Fitzgerald, the Great Gatsby

      by riverlover on Mon Nov 23, 2009 at 02:00:45 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  58 yr old engineer here (6+ / 0-)

    This is nice, but if you actually provide jobs for scientists, engineers, and whatnot the universities and primary schools usually take care of themselves.  As does innovation.

    •  And without industry, who cares? (5+ / 0-)

      No American can compete with Asia on salary.  Even if the American is better, CEOs will happily hire 2 Chineese engineers to do the job and muddle through.
      Now sure if you're a whiz then you can hold your own and maybe still pull a decent salary.  But usually you need to get your feet wet first and learn stuff.  And the entry level positions are now all in China.  The factory floor where a lot of lessons are learned, are now in China.

      We're going to spend a ton of money to teach kids to innovate, and what happens once they do?  We innovate, and China gets rich building it.  Then China learns exactly how that innovation works, how to improve it, redesign it, and then they're designing, building and selling version 2.0.

      Globalization has screwed us over, there is no future for technology positions in this country when the CEOs are only interested in farming out the work to the lowest bidder.

      Either we get a handle on trade, or our unemployment will keep rising until a Chineese slave wage looks good.  Which is of course, their whole plan.

      •  I'm not that negative (5+ / 0-)

        but looking at technical employment, it sure appears to me that the U.S. has all the scientists and engineers it wants, with some left over.  I'm not sure we need to stockpile a bunch more.

      •  Especially In A Society Where 'Cheap' (5+ / 0-)

        Even if the American is better, CEOs will happily hire 2 Chineese engineers to do the job and muddle through.

        Is the holy grail to be pursued at all costs, whatever it happens to be is not designed to be repaired but replaced, and even if you could find someone to repair it, the shipping costs to return it to Indonesia, Malaysia, Japan, etc. to be repaired are greater than the original cost of the unit because the original cost of the unit excludes all of the externalities involved in its production.

        If the terriers and bariffs are torn down, this economy will grow - G. Bush

        by superscalar on Mon Nov 23, 2009 at 01:25:54 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  Science as fun and interesting... (0+ / 0-)

    I like the idea.

    Not everybody is cut out to be a scientist, but everybody should be conversant and understand science as an integral part of our daily lives.

    Looking for the fun -- and hitting kids where they're interested is a great idea, and something we don't do enough.

    I always thought, for example, that music has great potential as a math teaching tool. Music is just a mathematical discipline expressed in an approachable and enjoyable way.

    Free speech? Yeah, I've heard of that. Have you?

    by dinotrac on Mon Nov 23, 2009 at 01:09:23 PM PDT

    •  The danger here is that we (1+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      dinotrac

      "inspire" kids to be scientists because it is "fun" -- but they don't learn anything...and then realize that science may be interesting, but it is also hard work.

      I have seen to many science outreach activities to kids that are all about inspiration and engagement and not about learning.  We really need to focus on what is taught and how it is taught.  Simply plopping in more hands-on activities won't do squat.

      •  That's a more general problem, but yes. (0+ / 0-)

        Makes me think of the bane of my existence when my kids were young - other people's kids, specifically, the kids of parents who could never say "no" -- didn't want to inhibit little Delbert's creativity.

        Sigh.

        As Steve Jobs said, "Real artists ship", ie, creativity is fun, but you've got to deliver the goods.

        Free speech? Yeah, I've heard of that. Have you?

        by dinotrac on Mon Nov 23, 2009 at 02:53:57 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  "Making Science more fun" (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    Caelian

    40% of chemists got started because they wanted to make LSD. The other 60% because they wanted to make pyrotechnics and explosives.

    Will the Administration loosen overly restrictive regulations on what masy be included in chemistry sets?


    "Do your taxpayers a favor, and leave him alone." (My State Assembly Rep, Marc Pocan, to Denver's City Atty before 2008 DNC)

    by ben masel on Mon Nov 23, 2009 at 01:09:24 PM PDT

  •  Something YOU can do: (8+ / 0-)

    if you consider yourself "math impaired" ... PLEASE don't be bragging on it in front of kids, like you're ashamed-but-not-really.  Nobody would EVER admit in public that they can barely read, so don't make like it's socially acceptable to be innumerate.

    "The extinction of the human race will come from its inability to EMOTIONALLY comprehend the exponential function." -- Edward Teller

    by lgmcp on Mon Nov 23, 2009 at 01:15:39 PM PDT

  •  Read much of this to my skeptical (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    DarkSyde

    Southern male husband, also a professor of Chemistry specializing in engineering education. Got a grudging, "If he follows through." Trust me, that's high praise.

    "We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them." - Albert Einstein

    by Tenn Wisc Dem on Mon Nov 23, 2009 at 01:20:03 PM PDT

  •  Can you imagine Bush praising science education? (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    DarkSyde

    I can't either. If he ever made a speech about education, it was either to praise homeschooling and parochial schools or to call on snooty intellectual elites to get out of the Real America.

    "Don't worry! Our Health Care Bill is going to a big farm, where it will have plenty of room to run around!" --attributed to Barack Obama

    by AdmiralNaismith on Mon Nov 23, 2009 at 01:24:23 PM PDT

  •  DAMMIT BARACK OBAMA!!!!! (0+ / 0-)

    Make a grown man cry like that....

    "I took some viagra and it got stuck in my throat. I had a stiff neck for a week." R.I.P Les Paul

    by JammerML on Mon Nov 23, 2009 at 01:29:21 PM PDT

  •  STEAM not STEM (2+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    shanikka, johnfire

    If it's a country of problem-solvers, free-thinkers and innovators we want, we need more than math and science.

    We also need THE ARTS.

    In concert with the skill set the article discusses, arts education provides a critical set of reasoning skills that teaches kids to think outside the box, work in a team, find multiple solutions to a problem and think independently.  

    STEAM, not STEM.  The arts are just as important.

    I know it sounds like I'm in denial but I'm not.

    by Save the clock tower on Mon Nov 23, 2009 at 01:38:21 PM PDT

    •  how about FLAMES-T (2+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      shanikka, bamajunky

      Foriegn Language
      Languge Arts
      Arts
      Math
      Engineering
      Science
      Technology

      Of course, other areas are important beyond "STEM," but this is a STEM initiative because our capacity in STEM is miserable compared to the rest of the world.  We already do create some pretty good artists.

      The bigger problem is that our society now equates a good education with knowing "stuff" (as in facts) and not being able to do "stuff" (as in think).

      Schools are just a reflection of that.  We won't do better in education until society actually values learning.

    •  "Destination Imagination" does just that! (0+ / 0-)

      google it...a great creative thinking program for kids.

  •  My experience: (0+ / 0-)

    In the 1950s and 1960s, when science suddenly became important, elementary school teachers were by and large middle-aged women who graduated from "normal" schools adn had neither science skills nor science knowledge, and relegated science class to the end of the day when it often got skipped.

    In college in the 1970s, we had ex-European and ex-Asian scientists teaching, and few Americans. Most "American" Nobel prizes in science have gone to either emigrants or those immediately trained by emigrants; there is little science going on now in American schools.

    The GOP: A wholly owned subsidary of Corporate America.

    by ceratotherium on Mon Nov 23, 2009 at 02:09:55 PM PDT

  •  Don't Teach Kids Science Until there's Jobs (0+ / 0-)

    Sorry, but until policy changes are made to protect science jobs from being outsourced to Asia, parents would be well advised to discourage their kids from pursuing a science (or engineering) career.  

  •  Stop Outsourcing First,Then Worry about Education (0+ / 0-)

    No jobs, no need for trained scientists.  It's that simple.

  •  Science will NOT be fun, rewarding, and cool... (2+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    Common Sense, Caelian

    ...as long as we continue to forbid kids to actually do anything in science.

    In two school systems I worked in (as a science consultant), I was paid to do cool stuff and help the kids do cool stuff, all to help kids see that science is fun. I worked with all grades (K - 12). There was very little equipment, but I was allowed to spend a bit on some basics.

    The kids did fingerprints (on each other, and tried to find the "criminal" who left prints on a soda can). They also did some detecting and gathering of evidence when I "robbed" the teachers, and they found out that sometimes even control groups aren't very good (one group had eyes closed, one had ears covered, one had both covered, and the control group could see and hear everything). We had a local cop come in and demonstrate how he lifted fingerprints, and a state cop showed how he took suspect's fingerprints.

    We did blood types (they stuck themselves, and used real reagents). They did cultures on the socks they were wearing and on their unworn clean (but not sterile) socks (that experiment made the front page of the large newspaper several counties away!). We made food pyramids - out of real food (leftovers from lunch that day).

    We marbled paper (in Language Arts classes) (they ended up learning measurements from that one, as well as a bit about surfactants), and they turned in that year's portfolio entries in on their marbled paper.

    We examined parts from a real engine, then made an engine train, from the pistons to the real wheel differential, with tinker toys.

    Etc., etc.

    Now, change schools.

    The middle school "science lab" was an unused classroom filled with junk. There was no equipment at all, except for one microscope that another teacher had swiped from the high school.

    I was deemed to be insufficiently qualified to do anything with blood (I'm a 6-year Med Tech, certified, but that made not the slightest difference). Growing bacteria was disallowed. We could make our own fingerprints, but looking for a fake "criminal" was deemed to be bad for the kids.

    I never bothered even trying to do anything else.

    Bottom line: There are two school systems where the kids now think science is cool, and one where they think it's pretty dull. Guess which is which?

    The fundies are right! The world is ending! There's a black guy with his feet up on the Oval Office desk! Oh Noez!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    by SciMathGuy on Mon Nov 23, 2009 at 04:56:37 PM PDT

  •  Of course what good is it (0+ / 0-)

    to get kids interested when tuition at one of our foremost public universities for math and science just went up 30+ percent?

  •  Don't forget (0+ / 0-)

    they have to know how to read and write, too.

    Education & Knowledge = Power

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