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Eugene Robinson, on guidelines for medical testing, says:

 The uproar over the on-again, off-again guidelines on when women should have mammograms is proof of the blindingly obvious: Health-care reform that actually controls costs -- rather than just pretending to do so -- would be virtually impossible to achieve.

Matthew Dowd really, really, really wants to see starbursts.

Richard Cohen originally hated the President's speech on race last year, but now wonders where that man of "moral clarity" is, whines that the Attorney General announced that the United States follows the rule of law, oh, and while in Japan, the President bowed. Gasp. Cohen is Karl Rove dressed up in pseudo-sadness.

Bob Herbert has hope:

You want new industry in the United States, with astonishing technological advances, new mass production techniques and jobs, jobs, jobs? Try energy.  [...]

The point is that these (and many more) brilliant, innovative technologies are here. They are real, tangible. They exist. What’s needed now is the will to develop policies that will vastly expand these advances and radically reduce their costs. The United States should be leading the world in the creation of whole new energy technologies and industries, instead of allowing the forces of the old carbon-based industries — coal, oil, gasoline-powered vehicles — to stand obstinately in the way of real progress.

Roger Cohen:

As an Obama admirer, I’m worried. He feels over-managed, over-scripted to me, to the point where he’s not showing the guts that prevailed at various difficult moments in the campaign. The ideas are good, but the warmth, cajoling and craft that make ideas more than that are lacking.

Elyssa East says that when you're stuffing yourself on Thanksgiving, you're missing an important part of the equation.

William McGurn calls Joe Lieberman the other white meat -- okay -- the other maverick.

Frank Gaffney, curled in the fetal position in his urine-soaked jammies, sobs, "we're all going to die."

Steve Almond on music and technology:

The younger generation has no romantic attachments to records as physical objects. To them, music exists as a kind of omnipresent atmospheric resource.

And it’s not that I begrudge them their online treasure troves or bite-size iPods. But I still miss the way it used to be, in the old days, when fans had to invest serious time and money to track down the album or song they wanted.

What I’m getting at here is a deeper irony: technology has made the pursuit of our pleasures much easier. But in so doing, I often wonder if it has made them less sacred. My children will grow up in a world that makes every song they might desire instantly available to them. And yet I sort of pity them that they will never know the kind of yearning I did.

Originally posted to Daily Kos on Tue Nov 24, 2009 at 02:30 AM PST.

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Comment Preferences

  •  Shorter Dowd (8+ / 0-)

    "Quitting doesn't count"

    "If all else fails... immortality can always be assured by spectacular error."

    by mydailydrunk on Tue Nov 24, 2009 at 02:34:09 AM PST

    •  Quitting doesn't count, but you forget... (8+ / 0-)

      Palin can't count.
      Not to worry -- neither can her supporters.

      Silence is consent.

      by Eileen B on Tue Nov 24, 2009 at 02:41:10 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  Dowd should move to Florida. (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Al in NY

      His point of view would be welcomed w/open arms here in the land of the delusional.  Take today's letters to the editor in our rag:

      My wife and I like Sarah Palin.  She came on the American stage sounding like a true American - like hot dogs, apple pie and Chevrolet.

      Everyone is entitled to an opinion, but when she is elected president in 2012, I'm thanking God for putting someone in the White House that I trust with my family's future. ...

      Yes, she's like the good old hot dog According to three recent studies, hot dogs pose a risk for cancer in children woops that didn't work out too well for your children's future did it?

      And then there's this charming letter:

      The letter in Suday's paper made me chuckle.

      Some guy is going to move to Canada if Sarah Palin is elected president.

      I would imagine all he knows about Palin is what he reads in the paper or sees on television....

      Well, isn't what we read and see on teevee enough to make us gag????  And btw, what other way can be employed to "get to know" the little misfit?

      As we express our gratitude, we must never forget that the highest appreciation is not to utter words, but to live by them. - John F. Kennedy

      by JaxDem on Tue Nov 24, 2009 at 03:58:23 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  these delusional people do not bother (4+ / 0-)

        to see what her own people in Alaska think of her. As it is their opinion of her is somewhat lower than what SC thinks of its governor.
        Not only did she quit, she was AWOL for most of her VEEP run from her guvner job and then quit as soon as she got home almost because of all the nasty things being said about her.

        Ask these adherents to name a single well defined policy which she has advocated that extended past ten words

        •  These are people who see themselves (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          essjay

          reflected in whatever they observe.  If they don't like the reflection, they don't like what they observe.

          How do you tell a predator from a protector? The predator will eat you sooner rather than later.

          by hannah on Tue Nov 24, 2009 at 05:53:33 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

    •  Neither, it would seem, does reading. (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      DavidCD

      Dowd did make one rather scary point, and not just for the upcoming election.

      It was the one about no President being reelected with approval ratings below 47%.

      The optimistic view is that a weak President draws strong challengers.

      The pessimistic view is that Charles Manson (or a tuna sandwich) could beat a weak President.

      Don't know why that got my attention, as it's just "throw the bums out", which is the case when people care about getting rid of the old more than they care about the new.

      And --

      That's what's shaping up to be the theme of 2010 if jobs don't come back soon.

      Free speech? Yeah, I've heard of that. Have you?

      by dinotrac on Tue Nov 24, 2009 at 07:04:35 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Shorter Gaffney: Libruls R' Suck! (6+ / 0-)

    That column should be required reading for anyone wanting to know how you can say nothing of import for over 300 words and still make a complete partisan ass out of yourself.

    Also.  Tool.

    In a progressive country change is constant; change is inevitable.

    by funluvn1 on Tue Nov 24, 2009 at 02:38:59 AM PST

  •  America needs some of what Herbert is smoking. (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    inclusiveheart, nonnie9999, Egalitare

    Instead of fighting the culture wars over whether fossil fuels are an issue to our planet, how about just going forward with a plan to rock this planet with new and available green technology, while actually putting Americans back to work?  Talk about a Win/Win!!

    In a progressive country change is constant; change is inevitable.

    by funluvn1 on Tue Nov 24, 2009 at 02:41:56 AM PST

  •  Anybody miss having ink-stained fingers from a (9+ / 0-)

    newspaper? Yeah, me neither. Media physicality is way overrated.

    See the losers in the best bars, meet the winners in the dives -Neil Young

    by danoland on Tue Nov 24, 2009 at 02:48:31 AM PST

    •  Back in MY day (9+ / 0-)

      the only music was the sound of Pangea splitting.

      "Everybody lies... except POLITICIANS? House, I do believe you are a romantic."

      by indiemcemopants on Tue Nov 24, 2009 at 02:54:40 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  While I'm down with Mr. Almond... (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Micheline

        ...what our kids will be yearning for is a decent job and healthcare coverage.  And sadly that yearning will be far stronger and far more meaningful than yearning over a vinyl record...

        •  sides that trip down memory lane (0+ / 0-)

          forgets how easily vinyl scratches and how soon phonograph needles were out and then there were the days before stereo......

          •  In the good old days (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            SueDe, xanthippe2, Krush

            there were untold hours devoted to what the hell the lyrics were to:

            Heck, kids today...instant gratification  ;D

            As we express our gratitude, we must never forget that the highest appreciation is not to utter words, but to live by them. - John F. Kennedy

            by JaxDem on Tue Nov 24, 2009 at 04:24:42 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  It really made no difference to us (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              JaxDem, skohayes

              (way back then) what the lyrics were.  If we couldn't understand them, we made them up.  And quite often our made-up lyrics were more interesting (and far dirtier) than anything, intelligible or not, that was ever going to be played on AM radio.

              "In this world of sin and sorrow there is always something to be thankful for; as for me, I rejoice that I am not a Republican." - H. L. Mencken

              by SueDe on Tue Nov 24, 2009 at 05:13:59 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  Snicker, yeah that's what (0+ / 0-)

                we did too.  Creative thinking was spawned by things like that.  Huuuummmmm, wonder if that's how Larry Flynt got started?

                As we express our gratitude, we must never forget that the highest appreciation is not to utter words, but to live by them. - John F. Kennedy

                by JaxDem on Tue Nov 24, 2009 at 05:42:47 AM PST

                [ Parent ]

    •  Well, all media are physical. (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Bush Bites, DavidCD

      The medium is physical, the content is...well, sports columnists or cat pictures, depending on what you've got in front of you.

      A vote for a filibuster on the health care reform bill is a vote for higher deficits and 44,000 deaths/year due to lack of insurance.

      by Inland on Tue Nov 24, 2009 at 04:19:58 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  The LPs and CDs aren't the point. (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      PsychoSavannah, Leftcandid, essjay

      I think Almond misses what is by far the biggest loss w/r physicality: Most kids don't play musical instruments anymore.

      Most kids don't have any connection with the craft of making music, the process of learning to master an instrument (or vocal style), the creative interplay of musicians characteristic of rock bands (or bluegrass jams, or jazz combos, R&B singing groups or...).

      No more CDs? No problem. No more writing songs, working out licks, practicing scales, jamming? Problem.

      "If you don't stick to your values when they're tested, they're not values. They're... hobbies." -- Jon Stewart, Jan. 22, 2009

      by pat208 on Tue Nov 24, 2009 at 04:30:24 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  What? (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        DLWinMI, MPociask

        I know tons of kids that play instruments.  Some of those are computer instruments, but the majority are real ones.  And if the number of musicians has decreased I'd blame the drop in funding for school music programs rather than downloading music.

        •  Back in my day... (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          pat208, Nada Lemming

          Every kid walked three miles in the snow, up hill, to his own bluegrass-jazz-rock band practice.  We didn't have any of those fancy electric guitars.  No, back then we had gas powered guitars, and we liked it!

        •  Music is no longer in public schools. (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          AoT, essjay

          And instrument/vocal lessons are much less prevalent than in the past. A smaller portion of young people master musical instruments, and that's a MUCH more serious issue than how they purchase their recorded music.

          Guitar Hero is much better than a shooter game -- it's active involvement in music -- but it's not as good as struggling to figure out how to play what you're hearing on your 45/LP/8-track/CD/MP3/.

          "If you don't stick to your values when they're tested, they're not values. They're... hobbies." -- Jon Stewart, Jan. 22, 2009

          by pat208 on Tue Nov 24, 2009 at 07:51:03 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

    •  I'm glad my kids won't have to buy (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Krush

      the same cassette tapes three or four times because the hot Florida weather makes them useless after a year!

      Things were better in the old days.  Things were also worse in the old days.  It will probably always be thus!

      In an insane society, the sane man would appear insane

      by TampaCPA on Tue Nov 24, 2009 at 04:41:57 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  Recently I had several people (0+ / 0-)

      tell me that they think reading papers online is no substitute for the 'real' thing.  The argument is that the physical structure of a newspaper confronts them with stories that they wouldn't see online because they wouldn't stumble across them as they flipped through the pages.

      Not sure that I buy that but I do know that I read a lot more of the paper when I buy a hard copy (which is rare) than when I go online.

      "One road is paved with gold. One road is just a road." - Patti Smith

      by matching mole on Tue Nov 24, 2009 at 05:30:29 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  To each his own. I get a hard copy every day (0+ / 0-)

        because my ancient house guest likes to read the comics.  Rarely do I even read the headline as I lay out the comic page.

        How do you tell a predator from a protector? The predator will eat you sooner rather than later.

        by hannah on Tue Nov 24, 2009 at 05:57:39 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

  •  Roger, Dowd, Matthews (8+ / 0-)

    Obama not warm and friendly, not touchy-feely not common man....I feel your pain democrat.....

    Bill Clinton....too needy too folksy (a Rhode scholar).... eventually too touchy-feely.

    they are panicked it is all the latter days of 2007 again....Obama is doomed he is loosing to Hillary... he must kick her legs from under her, he must go "Tonya Harding" on her ass.... he is just too nice.

    during the latter days of 2008 it was... Obama is too inspirational too much of "we are the ones we have been waiting for" ...he id doomed unless he start talking about bread and butter.

    I have never seen people who represent the Dailykos readership better than the Liberal columnist and "liberal" commentators.

    the people with the fancy titles and astronomical salaries as as easily spooked as your average dailykos commenter

    Politico: the pamphlet of the hipster wing nut

    by Dhirty on Tue Nov 24, 2009 at 02:50:42 AM PST

    •  What? Average Kossarians are like pundits? (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      MPociask

      "I have never seen people who represent the Dailykos readership better than the Liberal columnist and "liberal" commentators."

      I don't possess the arrogance to speak for everyone, but just personally, from my own hard work and perspective as a long-time Kossarian, well, I don't fucking think so, Kimosabe.

  •  Eugene Robinson is an idiot (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    panicbean, Egalitare

    Where I live in Canada, women get free mammograms every two years if they're the ages of 40 - 79.

    Preventative medicine.  Just like a PSA test.

    Much more effective at controlling costs than not giving tests and having to treat people for cancer.

    "Vancouver B.C. - the home of the 2010 Winter Olympics, single payer health care, and single payer car insurance"

    by marigold on Tue Nov 24, 2009 at 02:50:47 AM PST

    •  Maybe not an idiot, (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      paradox, inclusiveheart, Egalitare

      but he sure missed on this one.  Yes, Eugene, health care is expensive.  It's not nearly so expensive as poor or unavailable health care, but you (society) get what you pay for.
      I live in Norway, and I too suffer from universal access to high quality affordable health care.  My wife just had a baby, all expenses paid -- all medical expenses paid for the next 12 years, actually.  She'll get more than 11 months paid leave from her job which will be waiting for her when she's ready to go back to work.
      Yes, Eugene, it costs money.  Most good investments do.

      "... it wasn't so much the underworld you had to fear as the overworld." ~Ian Rankin

      by Andhakari on Tue Nov 24, 2009 at 03:38:50 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Expensive? In the US it's criminal and you don't (4+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        paradox, stitchmd, Egalitare, essjay

        get what you pay for.

        Since 1979, health care costs in the US have pulled away from the rest of the world until we now pay twice what health care costs in the world's best health care systems.

        Oh -- in case you haven't noticed: we don't have twice the quality.

        Free speech? Yeah, I've heard of that. Have you?

        by dinotrac on Tue Nov 24, 2009 at 03:56:23 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  acute care costs more than chronic care while (5+ / 0-)

        chronic care coss more than preventive care. But the failure of preventive care leads to chronic care which leads to acute care. So the only conclusion can be that someone likes for medical care to be expensive  

        •  More correctly, somebody likes for (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Egalitare

          some people to have more than enough and others to be deprived.  Deprivation is necessary to balance the more than enough out.

          How do you tell a predator from a protector? The predator will eat you sooner rather than later.

          by hannah on Tue Nov 24, 2009 at 06:05:18 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

      •  Gawd that sounds awful. (0+ / 0-)

        /snark

      •  Well, what it actually costs is a contribution (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Egalitare

        from the rest of the community to, in your wife's case, her reproductive effort on behalf of those who don't want to or can't reproduce themselves.  
        Americans have this idea that labor of all kinds (service, production and reproduction) ought to be free and that having to pay is a flaw in the moral universe.
        It's not a matter of wanting a free lunch.  It's a matter of not wanting to be beholden to those who produce the lunch.  You know, like wanting free sex--pleasure without responsibility.

        How do you tell a predator from a protector? The predator will eat you sooner rather than later.

        by hannah on Tue Nov 24, 2009 at 06:02:58 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Nobody here sees it as free. (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          essjay

          Like I said it's an investment in the community.  Snowboarders who break a leg also get subsidized health care.  Smokers get health care.  Fat guys get health care.  People with bad genes get health care.
          Society gets health care.
          Norway isn't full of freeloaders.  It's full of hard working folk who don't see their neighbors as their enemy.  They don't have to live in gated communities to feel safe.  They don't have to mortgage their life savings to put their kids through college.
          And it changes everybody's perspective.

          "... it wasn't so much the underworld you had to fear as the overworld." ~Ian Rankin

          by Andhakari on Tue Nov 24, 2009 at 07:55:35 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

    •  In most of the world, they don't (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      stitchmd

      because it doesn't make sense.

      Free speech? Yeah, I've heard of that. Have you?

      by dinotrac on Tue Nov 24, 2009 at 03:57:26 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  Focusing on bottom lines obscures prevention. (0+ / 0-)

      True that.

      A vote for a filibuster on the health care reform bill is a vote for higher deficits and 44,000 deaths/year due to lack of insurance.

      by Inland on Tue Nov 24, 2009 at 04:21:17 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  I remember I think the former head (0+ / 0-)

      of ACOG who opined years ago that there was not an ovary that was so good that it had to stay in nor a prostate or testicle so bad that it had to come out.
      Not an uncommon opinion not too many years ago  

    •  not an idiot at all (5+ / 0-)

      he nails it.

      Everyone says how expensive the system is, but don't cut treatment for me. But the vast majority of us don't actually really bear the financial costs.

      However, there are more than a few who will bear the costs of unnecessary treatment. And I mean the physical costs. Just one example was a young woman I saw last year who developed a nasty MRSA infection of a breast biopsy site for a benign process. That's just one.

      Men going through treatment that could leave them impotent and/or incontinent for a disease that might not otherwise affect their lives is another.

      And those people are being treated. At tremendous costs. When they may not need it.

      That's the whole point of his column. And of the guidelines.

      Diversity may be the hardest thing for a society to live with, and perhaps the most dangerous thing for a society to be without - W S Coffin

      by stitchmd on Tue Nov 24, 2009 at 04:27:07 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Additionally (0+ / 0-)

        our fee for service sub-specialists bringing down high 6 figure incomes. Let's see them give up some of that dough. Find me a back surgeon, least in my neck of the woods, who would work for a "modest" salary of, oh 250k? Not gonna happen.

      •  I lost my connection the other day (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        MPociask

        after I'd written you a fairly long post about how I think the guidelines are fine, but that because our system is so dysfunctional - and so few people really have the opportunity to develop long-term relationships with a physician that we are relying too heavily on the guidelines - and not enough on the physicians' one on one interface with their patients.

        The move towards testing was in many ways a reaction to the fact that the relationships between patients and docs was becoming less and less intimate.  Now we are moving away from testing, but doing nothing to really insure that people can develop solid relationships with medical providers assuring payments or assuring that tests/procedures that medical providers who are intimately involved in a case are paid for - even if they do not always fit the guidelines.  A statsitical patient example, as you know, is often quite different from an actual live human patient with their own unique body chemistry and genetic make up.

    •  Then can't we cut the screening in half? (0+ / 0-)

      The current American protocol is once a year when a woman reaches 40.  It sounds to me that Canada has half as much testing as we do and the suggestion that came out would be consistent with the current Canadian guidelines for women over 50, except that it may end sooner than 79.  Also, the cost of screening that the researchers were talking about was not the monetary costs.  It was the high number of false positives that testing itself creates, not to mention the additional exposure to radiation.  

      There is also no reason to enshrine guidelines in stone either.  When new data becomes available, it should be considered.  Somewhere in Canada, they are looking at the American report and considering it.  

       

    •  Apparently both (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      stitchmd

      Australia and New Zealand both recommend routine mammograms starting at 50, not 40. Everything that I have read in the last week seems to indicate that screening for women 40-49 with no known risk factors is at best a wash and is probably slightly counterproductive on balance.

      Plus, PSA screening is a horrible example. At least in the USA it is currently clearly counterproductive.

      8/29 changed everything Your political compass Economic Left/Right: -6.13 Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -8.10

      by wsexson on Tue Nov 24, 2009 at 01:17:46 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  We're all smoking Crystal Muzak (8+ / 0-)

    The physical object, in other words, becomes a time machine. And who in their right mind would throw away a time machine?

    The younger generation has no romantic attachments to records as physical objects. To them, music exists as a kind of omnipresent atmospheric resource.

    I refuse to have a battle of wits with an unarmed person - Pogo

    by annieli on Tue Nov 24, 2009 at 02:53:36 AM PST

    •  Not just "get off my lawn" (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      nonnie9999

      but a diatribe about "get the FUCK off my lawn!"

      Damned kids will ruin this world.

      Oh wait!  We already did that?  In the kids vernacular, My Bad!

      In a progressive country change is constant; change is inevitable.

      by funluvn1 on Tue Nov 24, 2009 at 03:00:00 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  the old saying "don't mistake the moon for the (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      entlord1

      finger pointing at the moon"  this guy is romantically attached to the finger

      Fox Crapture from Farmageddon

      by 88kathy on Tue Nov 24, 2009 at 04:11:43 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  Let me suggest that the real problem is that (0+ / 0-)

      this generation of kids is a lot less materialistic.  They're quite happy to be conspicuous (look but don't touch) and aural (listen and don't talk) consumers.  This is bad news for an economy that's focused on delivering products in lieu of services.  These kids are not into things.  And the reason, I think, is because for many people the acquisition of things was actually a substitute for personal relationships.  Things are like pets in that they don't disobey and don't disdain; better in that, while they wear out, they don't suddenly die or up and run away.
      For quite some time, the lonely crowd turned into the lonely individual, who went shopping to make some human contact and demonstrate that he's someone.  People went shopping as much for the transaction as for the things they buy.  Even clipping and storing and turning in coupons is valued for its social significance more than the few pennies that might be saved--if they're not already spent on more gas.

      Self-service is the bane of the American economy.

      How did the housing bubble happen?  Real estate agents went out of their way to "sell" and invested a lot of personal time.
      How did the health care bubble happen?  Providers went out of their way to sell new services to healthy people and invested a lot of personal time.  I mean we've got medical centers providing education, transportation, nutrition, child-care and wellness services--everything of which poor people are increasingly deprived as a matter of course.

      Senator Alexander had a point when he referred to the Medicare and Medicaid ghetto which people like him want to avoid like the plague.  Our health care system is a remnant of legalized segregation.

      How do you tell a predator from a protector? The predator will eat you sooner rather than later.

      by hannah on Tue Nov 24, 2009 at 06:24:24 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  THE CAMPAIGN IS OVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (5+ / 0-)

    If people miss candidate Obama so damn much, go to Youtube and watch the freaking clips.

    He has the job now and it doesn't exactly allow time to inspire the world as much as they would like. The man is getting torn up and pulled from all directions, trying to overcome obstacles every single day and people just keep demanding to see the guy from the campaign.

    Campaign is Over!!!  Time to get to work. The real grind begins now. It's ugly, it's boring, it's long and it's frustrating.  The daily rallies, the speeches, the debates - done, gone, over - for now!

  •  Have the same impression as Cohen, (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    milton333, Uberbah, MPociask

    in that Obama comes across as over-managed, over-consulted, etc...

    Part of the problem is that there is so much on his plate, and he probably has way too many hangers on and advisers giving him voluminous advice.

    I am sure at times he feels overwhelmed, as any human would in that situation, unless they were a fence post like Gov. bush.  Unfortunately, that often ends up in taking the path of least resistance, and not getting substantial changes done. I am skeptical about "big change" in economic policy and regulation, and getting the majority of troops out of Afghanistan/Iraq.

    When he was campaigning he still had that grounded quality that came from just recently having to deal with everyday American problems like pay a mortgage, figure out how to put the kids through school, etc...

    Hope he hasn't lost that completely.

    The idea that the world must be run by the stock market is as mad as any other fundamentalist deulsion, Islamic, Christian or Marxist. -Ronald Wright

    by gereiztkind on Tue Nov 24, 2009 at 03:00:09 AM PST

    •  are you listening to the Bow Wow or the words (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      DavidCD

      SPEECHLESS and so much more

      check out the speeches in this diary if you have the time the time for the horse's mouth.  

      Fox Crapture from Farmageddon

      by 88kathy on Tue Nov 24, 2009 at 04:35:27 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  Greenwald (3+ / 0-)

      spanks Brarb pretty food today.  

      This:

      The Barack Obama of that Philadelphia speech would not have let his attorney general, Eric Holder, announce the new policy for trying Khalid Sheik Mohammed and four other Sept. 11 defendants in criminal court, as if this were a mere departmental issue and not one of momentous policy. And the Barack Obama of the speech would have enunciated a principle of law and not an ad hoc system in which some alleged terrorists are tried in civilian courts and some before military tribunals. What is the principle in that: What works, works? Try putting that one on the Liberty Bell.

      <> "Cohen is Karl Rove dressed up in pseudo-sadness."

      Read the article, everybody should.   And congrats to Barb on hitting a nerve.  This should be discussed across multiple diaries and on the front page for days.  This is my country they're burning and I don't like it one bit.  If that's whining, give me a rattle and call me Baby Huey.  

      "They hope WE fail." - Ministry of Truth

      by Nada Lemming on Tue Nov 24, 2009 at 07:14:43 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Big eye roll for Steve Almond (6+ / 0-)

    I appreciate music so much more that I can actually find it, rather than trying to wrestle from the hands of the self-appointed guardians of cool. The "younger generation" has this one right.

    •  Hear Hear! (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      skohayes, Nada Lemming, MPociask

      When I was a kid, my brother bought a huge short-wave radio. I was fascinated by it-being able to listen to broadcasts from London and New York. But short-wave radios were big, bulky, and expensive-too expensive for a kid.

      Mow the internet brings me the BBC at will-along with Iranian pop and Iranian classical, a station dedicated to nothing but Halloween music, and Stephanie Miller.

      As for playing music, I think there's a tradeoff. While Almond may decry the people who aren't playing instruments to his liking-at least those who play have a chance to be heard by somebody. I remember stories of frustrated musicians who simply could never find anyone to listen to them at all-or who simply fell out of corporate favor and disappeared. Now I see scads of bands with no airplay that I know of on the conventional radio dial actually being able to tour, and old hands who can still have a career. I read about bands who are now able to control the entire process from start to finish who at least can make beer and travel money from sales instead of begging a radio station to actually listen to them.

      Howard Dean Forever and a Day

      by CarolDuhart on Tue Nov 24, 2009 at 04:27:38 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  It's about the garage band, not the arena band. (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        essjay

        "If you don't stick to your values when they're tested, they're not values. They're... hobbies." -- Jon Stewart, Jan. 22, 2009

        by pat208 on Tue Nov 24, 2009 at 04:31:26 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Pat, definitely (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Bush Bites

          I walk past my neighborhood bar and see that there are dozens of bands who are now touring. They must be making some money. Or I listen to online radio to other bands that just don't get any airplay around here-they must be making some money to do it. There's Blog Talk Radio and Radio Time and Sky.fm and thousands more-people are at least able to break the stranglehold on free speech and music that was the old way. Once, if the record company dropped you-that was it for any sort of exposure. Now a band can directly sell and broadcast to fans and build a following all online. I love the new anarchy and variety and hope the record dinosaurs soon need a bailout by I-Tunes.

          Howard Dean Forever and a Day

          by CarolDuhart on Tue Nov 24, 2009 at 04:37:39 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  My son's band (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Uberbah

            toured most of this year.  They're one of those indy bands, self published, and they get some local airplay.  They toured with Cloud Cult and appeared at venues just below arena level from NY to LA.  

            They were guaranteed $100 per night.  Which didn't pay for drinks, let alone gas, hotel, or anything else.  They slept at fans' homes or in the bus.  

            One constant since the beginning of time that will never change: musicians for the most part, starve for their art.  

            Here is Ice Palace's video:

            "They hope WE fail." - Ministry of Truth

            by Nada Lemming on Tue Nov 24, 2009 at 07:21:58 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  But I Remember A Time (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Nada Lemming

              When a lot of bands couldn't even get bookings due to the change in the music industry. A lot of clubs closed and didn't open again until rap started up again.

              Yes, bands still starve for their art. It takes a while to build a following. But at least they don't have to fly out to Hollywood to get recorded, or get some publicity. They can make some money on the way up instead of hanging on promises of a record deal.

              Howard Dean Forever and a Day

              by CarolDuhart on Tue Nov 24, 2009 at 09:10:00 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

    •  People use to make music themselves. (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      greeseyparrot, Essephreak

      The change occurred when everyone stopped learning how to play an instrument, sing in a choir, even dance, and instead became observers of performers.

      The idea that there's some huge shift in the means by which one listens to other people's recorded music is a little myopic.  

      A vote for a filibuster on the health care reform bill is a vote for higher deficits and 44,000 deaths/year due to lack of insurance.

      by Inland on Tue Nov 24, 2009 at 05:39:27 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  If you only listen to pop radio (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Inland

        you would get that impression.  Major labels only sign singers or rappers, and assign them to people who will package and produce them and present them as artists, whereas the true artist is the producer in this scenario.  This began in the 80's, and is not a new phenomena.  

        What is new is the revolution led by people like Price and others, who are self publishing and not using labels, and making better music than ever.  You just wont' find it on top 40 radio, you have to look for it.  

        Things are better, and are musician driven.  It's just harder to find, but worth looking for.  

        Jesse Johnson, former guitarist for the Time, just put out a double CD that's incredible, but it's not for sale at Target and you won't hear it on the radio.  But it's definitely worth a google or two.  I could go on for days about great artists who shunned the labels and are making great music.  

        "They hope WE fail." - Ministry of Truth

        by Nada Lemming on Tue Nov 24, 2009 at 07:34:09 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

    •  Boomer nostalgia rears its boring head nt (0+ / 0-)
    •  I appreciate what Steve is saying... (0+ / 0-)

      I used to enjoy hunting for hours through used record shops and finding some out of print treasure.  But I think we're pining for our youth more than the vinyl.  Tech moves on, c'est la vie.

  •  oh yeah... (5+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    88kathy, Al in NY, Krush, JaxDem, skohayes

    take one look at captain underpants and joe mcliebercain, and the first word that springs to mind is maverick...


    larger version

    I didn't get Jack from Abramoff...I'm not a Republican!

    by nonnie9999 on Tue Nov 24, 2009 at 03:04:08 AM PST

  •  And where does (7+ / 0-)

    Mr. Almond suggest I go to listen to new music? Best Buy? There are very few independent record stores around anymore where one can go and discover new music and don't get me started on how worthless corporate radio is. I think the iPod and iTunes are two of the most convenient inventions ever; the iPod because I can run and not have to carry a bulky Walkman like I used to, and iTunes because if I am looking for a song I heard on the radio in the 70s, I can find it. Yearning for a song is over rated.

    •  I certainly don't miss old music tech (5+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      paradox, TampaCPA, skohayes, essjay, MPociask

      Oldies, sure. But I don't miss the limits. Back then, when the only music available was what the radio stations deemed fit to play or the record stores sell.
      I don't miss having to dedicate an entire wall to my music collection, having to worry about scratches on vinyl, or tangled tapes. That's the nice thing about mp3's. No maintenance worries-except for my player, which is sturdier than anything else I have bought. 400+ songs on a player the size of a credit card, and I still have room.

      I love the access to endless internet stations that broadcast just about any genre of music. I love the fact that even though there's no progressive radio station in town I can find it elsewhere on the net. I love being able to listen to podcasts of shows I have missed. No more struggling with short-wave radios or searching in specialty record stores or sitting up half the night listening to a show because that's the only time I can hear that music.

      I love the instant gratification of I-Tunes and their imitators, especially for an oldie that simply would have taken months to find in the old vinyl days.

      Howard Dean Forever and a Day

      by CarolDuhart on Tue Nov 24, 2009 at 04:17:27 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  You've got to be kidding: (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    DavidCD

    Steve Almond on music and technology:
    The younger generation has no romantic attachments to records as physical objects.

    So even though spiritual enlightenment might come with detachment from possessions and objects, it's just so sad to lack one more thing to be attached to?  Somehow, I think the youth of today will find some gee-gaw to stake their "happiness" on.

    "... it wasn't so much the underworld you had to fear as the overworld." ~Ian Rankin

    by Andhakari on Tue Nov 24, 2009 at 03:24:17 AM PST

    •  It kind of works both ways... (3+ / 0-)

      think not enlightenment with fewer possessions but instead of society at large becoming like a spoiled rich kid. (and this is not directly linked to being wealthy for a lot of things)  No effort needed to get stuff... it's just always there... and entitlement... little or nothing from their own direct effort... things have no intrinsic value to the metaphoric rich boy consumer. The more people are distanced from the work and complexities of what went into creating something the more taken for granted it is... we have come to rely more and more on sweatshop mass market stuff with little concern or awareness for how come it is so "plentiful" and cheap... (except when poisons or other problems creep in) It is like software piracy, movie piracy, music piracy... the bigger producers sell enough to keep going and do well with often sleazier product... the smaller outfit which often is more creative and interesting gets it's stuff robbed too but can't survive without some sort of reasonable return...

      Push the button there it is... (mommy & daddy take care of the electric bill so to speak)  and too many don't pay much or pay nothing for many of the automatic bounty...  (even in the midst of growing poverty in an economic crisis) the stuff is just there like air... but unlike air a lot of stuff is not actually free...
      and many actual but hidden costs are not being paid even if we do pay for some things...

      So it's not so much enlightened beings growing beyond possessions but instead maybe ending up with more small, instant gratification consumer/people even more cut off from the effort, means methods and costs of creating and providing things... (food, music, entertainment, everything and anything really) and being more like that perhaps means having even less ability to place value on things and ideas. Rewards become even more and more inappropriate or imbalanced and controlled by fewer and fewer... because cause and effect and who controls and decides is the implication for the larger picture.

      Pogo & Murphy's Law, every time. Also "Trust but verify" - St. Ronnie (hah...)

      by IreGyre on Tue Nov 24, 2009 at 04:07:46 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  a fetish for vinyl I have heard of (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Inland, Andhakari

      but a fetish for vinyl records is a new one on me

      •  Oh, it's out there. (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        paradox, wsexson, matching mole

        Vinyl albums have a certain cache these days. In fact, some artists still release on vinyl for their die hard fans.

        (Medeski, Martin and Woods soon-to-be-released box set will include two vinyl discs as well as several CDs and DVDs.)

      •  I must confess (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        paradox, OLinda, Bush Bites

        that Almond's column struck a real chord with me.  My LP collection is among my most prized possessions.  And I think the reason that I prize it so much is the effort I put into building it.  I loved going to the funky record store downtown as a teenager and spending an hour browsing through all the obscure stuff they had as the only customer in the store while the owners smoked pot in the back.

        In the early 1990s I combed the used LP stores which were flush with everyone else's recently discarded collections for punk/new wave classics that I had taken for granted on the radio 10-15 years earlier.

        In the 2000s I went to record sale benefits for public and community radio stations and scooped up all sorts of oddities.

        I don't like most forms of shopping particularly but record shopping has always been fun.  I recognize this as being nostalgia but LPs have a magic for me that CDs just don't have.

        I also find learning about new music today to be very difficult but I think that is more a reflection of me than the nature of the media.  I don't have the time to devote to it that I did when I was younger and my brain is not the information sponge it once was.

        "One road is paved with gold. One road is just a road." - Patti Smith

        by matching mole on Tue Nov 24, 2009 at 05:18:49 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

  •  The Washington Times is still publishing? (0+ / 0-)

    And those poor kids, missing yearning.  That even sounds weird.

    Life is good. Injustice? Not so much.

    by westyny on Tue Nov 24, 2009 at 03:35:46 AM PST

  •  Music, Records, CDs Mp3... Food... travel...ideas (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    88kathy, jnhobbs, matching mole, essjay

    landing on a peak with a helicopter... not as meaningful as climbing up there yourself...

    Are we becoming an even more musically illiterate population that mostly just consumes and is cut off from the full process and structure and understanding and making of music?... even more than when the Victrola was invented?... We have seemingly gotten used to not making music ourselves... since listening to recordings of the best of the best was so much "Better" and easier... has it gotten worse as we progress from holding physical media into a time of online music universality?

    In time the cheaper and easier in everything from food and tools came to be the rule. Even the production, the product and the musicians have all changed too... While we still have good music and many talented music makers in every part of it's creation whether they play an actual instrument or not but is it all somehow less that it was or could be?... It could be said that valuing more than just the current sound/type of music that is in fashion seems even rarer than before... And it can also be said that guitar and drum games on game consoles and being our own radio station takes back some interaction and means there is more ability, participation and ownership being taken back.

    In a world where a flavor is so often fake and huge numbers of kids have never seen a peppermint leaf or just about any other actual flavor embodiment... and often prefer the artificial version of the taste and more if not most people (in the USA at least) have never grown or produced their own food what is the value of the quick anonymous processed "food" we throw away versus the food we had a hand in making? And that goes for music as well as much of the rest of Western Post industrial society.

    Like anything else in the world the exceptions to this are everywhere confusing and misdirecting our judgement. More people than ever have theoretical access to ideas, writing and music that they would probably never run across in the past. More people have the power to create and record almost professional quality music recordings learn and share and create visually. More exotic food from more places and way more access and prepare a more varied and and healthy diet is possible... and yet...

    And the net result for most people? Most people do not eat an optimum diet and opt for the easy lowest effort food product; most people read less, more people just listen to or watch the lowest common denominator mass market fad, won't walk anywhere and do not take the scenic route, look at the stars or smell the roses... Picture a video of an idle primate in a tree grabbing ripe over abundant fruit  taking one bite, tossing it and grabbing another and that is the metaphorical culture of the consumer society only with an "improved" mass market artificial fruit product to consume and waste instead. Abundance breeding an indifferent entitlement to unlimited but unrecognized dross.

    BUT like anything in history... moving from an earlier paradigm to a new one is messy and on one side the lamenters cry for what is being lost ignoring other things... improvements and saving graces... Nothing is entirely either/or....  even in our digital age...we lose as we gain, we learn and all too often it takes a long and painful time of stupidity mixed with hopeful signs and trends to learn and do what needs to be learned and done.

    The printing press "Devalued" all those handwritten books and made books more commonly available to ordinary people and less treasured in a way... and yet we would not be where we are without the printing revolution. Younger people value records and CDs less since they are not needed. Maybe the value searching and rarity will live on with people looking off the beaten track for more unusual types of music. Will the younger music users tend to be less passive acceptors of what the mass marketers of designated current tastes are pushing as they have been for so long?

    The jury is still out on where the the internet and a new generation that can use newer tools to learn and create and understand will take us...  and what that will mean for enjoying and understanding our world and how to make it all work better... Best of times and worst of times...

    We are going somewhere and enough creative and energized people are getting something from the new magnifiers of our abilities and minds so that as always it tends to be mostly for the better...

    Pogo & Murphy's Law, every time. Also "Trust but verify" - St. Ronnie (hah...)

    by IreGyre on Tue Nov 24, 2009 at 03:41:25 AM PST

  •  Big gold start for Herbert today. BIG. (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    max stirner

    He is soooooo right, but I'm surprised his column would be highlighted here on DK, because it actually goes against Democratic party orthodoxy if you think about it for a while.

    First, he says kind things about a hydrogen powered hybrid car.  Shame on him!  With the change of administrations, hydrogen is now a bad pie-in-the-sky pipe dream.

    Worse, though, is the central theme of his piece: that we can -- must -- devote ourselves to radically reducing the cost of alternative energy.  That absolutely flies in the face of strategies like cap and trade and assorted energy taxes, which choose instead to raise the cost of fossil fuels to make sustainable energy seem cheap by comparison.

    Herbert's right, of course, because cap and trade is doomed to fail, broken on the wheel of emerging economies. Bring down the cost of renewable energy, and you make oil and coal less desirable.  Find relatively labor-intense ways to do that, and you make renewable energy very attractive to countries struggling to bring their people out of poverty, or just regimes who want to gain loyalty by spreading favors in the form of jobs.

    Cheap energy -- somebody's going to use it.  Better that it's clean.

    Free speech? Yeah, I've heard of that. Have you?

    by dinotrac on Tue Nov 24, 2009 at 04:06:41 AM PST

  •  GOP nominee in 2012 will be Petraeus (0+ / 0-)

    and if Obama doesn't do more to activate his base, to show American voters that he's one of them, and that he cares.......then he'll be a one-term president.

    So said a skilled, old observer.

    Palin is performing a useful function for the GOP -- she's activating the base and getting the independents interested in the GOP again.

    Never forget: the GOP owns the media (not to mention decades of experience and PR through well-funded think tanks) and they therefore control the agenda.

    Now...how do we make Obama be Obama.

    Media Reform Action Link http://stopbigmedia.com/

    by LNK on Tue Nov 24, 2009 at 04:07:25 AM PST

  •  Eugene Robinson is simply wrong. (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    essjay

    He makes the common, if understandable mistake of assuming that more care=better care. This is easily demonstrated to be false, most memorably by Atul Gawande here.

    Robinson's waving the white flag before we even get started on reform. We can do better.

    •  So when they ask for "volunteers" to stop taking (0+ / 0-)

      expensive tests for cancer in order to reduce costs, will you raise your hand for the public good?  I thought the whole idea of "HCR" was for more preventative care.  What are these tests if not preventative?

      •  Not if they don't work! (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        wsexson, DavidCD, essjay

        That's the whole point of the USPSTF recommendation. It's not at all about saving money, not for one instant.

        It's because the scientific evidence indicates it's quite possible that mammography for women age 40 to 50 may kill as many women as it saves, through unnecessary radiation therapy and chemotherapy.

        •  I didn't see that the conclusion (0+ / 0-)

          was that there was risk of death from doing the tests.  There was risk of false positives, stress from false positives, and the need for further testing/treatment.  Perhaps the tests have risks of radiation, but as I understand it you are exposed to more radiation flying than you are from an X-ray.  If the tests did kill as many people as they saved, why did ACS, HHS and doctors groups reject the conclusions of the study?

      •  Honestly, why don't people get this point? (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        essjay
      •  you stop paying doctors for useless tests (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        greeseyparrot

        Useless as defined as tests which according to well done double-blind tests provide no improvement in quality or quantity of life.  The mammogram thing doesn't meet that test.  PSA screening for certain young otherwise healthy men probably does.

        This is what we mean when we talk about science based medicine.  Things that have been proven to work - or at least things that have not been proven not to work.  It's also why republicans were testing the outrage they could generate over funding comparative effectiveness studies about six months ago.  Everyone thinks it's a good idea, but the GOP is against it because it makes health care reform possible.

        We have always known that heedless self interest was bad morals; we know now that it is bad economics. - FDR 1936

        by AndersOSU on Tue Nov 24, 2009 at 11:15:04 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Even simpler; GOP is bought and paid for. (0+ / 0-)

          Comparative effectiveness research is Kryptonite for many worthless or frankly dangerous therapies and testing methods which are currently extremely profitable for the medical/industrial complex.

          Any Federal program that effectively identifies worthless or dangerous therapies and leads to their abandonment is a threat to the profits of BigPharma, imaging companies, surgical equipment manufacturers and so on. By killing comparative effectiveness research, Republicans are merely doing their masters' bidding.

  •  Richard Cohen, Concern Troll (4+ / 0-)

    "Yes, I don't approve Obama's morality, but you do, so I'm going to suggest reasons why you should be disappointed in him so that you'll stop supporting him."

    Basic concern troll stuff.

    A vote for a filibuster on the health care reform bill is a vote for higher deficits and 44,000 deaths/year due to lack of insurance.

    by Inland on Tue Nov 24, 2009 at 04:17:47 AM PST

    •  "He feels scripted. I'm not feeling warm." (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      DavidCD

      Jesus Christ. I'm glad I don't work in Washington. Just overhearing the bar conversations would make me turn violent.

      "Styles upon styles upon styles is what I have. You wanna diss the Phifer but you still don't know the half." - A Tribe Called Quest

      by brooklynbadboy on Tue Nov 24, 2009 at 04:59:41 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Is Mika Brzezinski really that stupid? (6+ / 0-)

    They show a poll comparing favorability of Sens. Harry Reid and John Ensign. Harry Reid's unfavorability is 50% to John Ensign';s 43%. But Harry Reids favorability is 38% to Ensign's 21%.

    So Mika is astounded that Ensign is more popular than Reid...wtf?

    This is just to say Forgive us victory tastes delicious so sweet and so cold

    by Dave the Wave on Tue Nov 24, 2009 at 04:22:16 AM PST

  •  Robinson is right, except for the impossible. (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Egalitare

    Even in a world where celebrities like Elvis, Jacko, and Rush prove pretty conclusively that more isn't the same as better, we compulsively want more medical --- I can't call wasted tests and procedures care --- activity.

    It's the same force that drives desperate people into the arms of quacks who wipe out their savings and leave their families destitute.  It's irrational, but it's real.

    However, we cannot reduce medical costs -- and we pay twice what the best health systems in the world pay -- unless we stop doing things that do not advance patients' best interests.

    Somebody has to do the math and say, "Wow -- why are we doing this crap?"

    Equally important, we have to overcome years of physician, pharma, and hospital conflict-of-interest trying to convince us we need every procedure and every drug under the sun, and that will take a lot of frank talk and education.  

    Free speech? Yeah, I've heard of that. Have you?

    by dinotrac on Tue Nov 24, 2009 at 04:22:42 AM PST

  •  Turkeys are getting desperate (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    OLinda, freelunch, lisastar

    funny 1 Pictures, Images and Photos

    As we express our gratitude, we must never forget that the highest appreciation is not to utter words, but to live by them. - John F. Kennedy

    by JaxDem on Tue Nov 24, 2009 at 04:34:57 AM PST

  •  Palin/Lieberman '12 (0+ / 0-)

    All that mavericky goodness would be unstoppable.

  •  Only Keith Richards And Cock Roaches Are Going To (0+ / 0-)

    survive if we do not fix the brain dead election cycles so real problems are addressed.

  •  Political COURAGE! (0+ / 0-)

    No one dares to risk taking the moral high ground or educating constituents in the face of electoral math.

    The tyranny of the minority will reign, on health care, on energy & the environment, on war.

    When does the greed stop?

    "Whatever it takes, for as long as it takes! Healthcare For All!" Support HR 676 Healthcare For All Now!

    by ezdidit on Tue Nov 24, 2009 at 05:03:07 AM PST

  •  Perhaps foolishly ... (0+ / 0-)

    ... I thought this would happen quickly under Obama. Did someone on Wall Street tell him not to do it or was I just not paying enough attention and he never really intended to?

    You want new industry in the United States, with astonishing technological advances, new mass production techniques and jobs, jobs, jobs? Try energy.

  •  Almond makes an interesting point. (0+ / 0-)

    Being an actual "collector" is less a part of the casual music fan's experience now.

    But it's not universal.

    I tend to buy CD reissues of relatively rare free-jazz albums often released exclusively in foreign countries and, I can tell you, some actual hunting-and-collecting is still involved.

    And, of course, he also glosses over the current vinyl junkie rage.

  •  I could have done without the urine soaked (0+ / 0-)

    jammies imagery.  Feh.  

    A poopie diaper?  Maybe.  

    Having credibility when making an argument is the straightest path to persuasion.

    by SpamNunn on Tue Nov 24, 2009 at 05:18:26 AM PST

  •  The Brits start an Iraq War inquiry (0+ / 0-)

    LONDON — After years of delay and dispute, a British inquiry began hearings Tuesday into the Iraq war — a conflict that stirred deep opposition here as former Prime Minister Tony Blair broke ranks with major European allies to join the United States as its leading ally in the 2003 invasion.
    ...
    The inquiry is expected to last at least 18 months, beginning with testimony from some of the most powerful figures involved in Britain’s decision to join the invasion, including Mr. Blair. It was not clear when Mr. Blair would testify.
    ...
    Sir William Patey, who was head of the Middle East Department at the British Foreign Office, said that in February 2001, after the Bush Administration took office, British diplomats heard American officials talking about regime change. "We were aware of these drum beats from Washington and internally we discussed it," he said. "Our policy was to stay away from that."

    http://www.nytimes.com/...

    AN 18-MONTH TRUTH-FINDING INQUIRY INTO THE IRAQ WAR?!?

    What's all this preoccupation with truth and stuff? That's so un-American!

    p.s. February 2001 was waaay before September 11, 2001

  •  I still miss the "cut out" bin. (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    lisastar

    But I still miss the way it used to be, in the old days, when fans had to invest serious time and money to track down the album or song they wanted.

    I remember finding Traffic's John Barleycorn Must Die in there.   Manna from heaven.  

    Having credibility when making an argument is the straightest path to persuasion.

    by SpamNunn on Tue Nov 24, 2009 at 05:20:37 AM PST

  •  My opinion leader...the other CIA::: (0+ / 0-)
    h/t to Matt Taibbi, with his views on Palinalienation: http://trueslant.com/...

    She's a headliner: http://www.ciabnormalarts.com/

    "Whatever it takes, for as long as it takes! Healthcare For All!" Support HR 676 Healthcare For All Now!

    by ezdidit on Tue Nov 24, 2009 at 05:31:22 AM PST

  •  And David "Ward Cleaver" Brooks (0+ / 0-)
    Brooks says HC reform would be really, really, really civilized and wonderful and just super but unfortunately it will tax everybody into bankruptcy and fail which is too bad because HC reform would be really, really great other than that. Also he doesn't have to explain this 'cuz a Harvard guy says it, nyah.
  •  Matthew Dowd painfully stupid. (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    skohayes

    Who the Republican candidate is, and his or her qualifications and abilities, will matter only if Obama's approval rating is between 47 and 51 percent going into the fall of 2012.

    By coincidence, those numbers came out of my ass with my morning dump too.

    But anyway, it's whistling in the dark: Republicans don't have a person to run for the office, have taken a strategy of being against everything Obama, and therefore have a happy thought that people will vote for anybody but Obama because he's so gosh darn unpopular.  Yeah, right.  

    A vote for a filibuster on the health care reform bill is a vote for higher deficits and 44,000 deaths/year due to lack of insurance.

    by Inland on Tue Nov 24, 2009 at 05:37:00 AM PST

  •  totally my grandfather (0+ / 0-)

    When i read Almond it brought me back to some of the things my father and grandfather would tell me.

    How many miles they walked to school... how they had to do things the hard way. Then i became a Marine and told them how many miles i walked with 120lbs on my back you know what?" i knew they were full of it".

    Back in my day what ever..... the kids today have new media and should enjoy it. My son plays guitar and i think he totally sucks but his friends think hes totally talented. Who's right me or his friends.

    The end of the world is coming because of Rock & Roll.. does anyone really remember the ass hat that said that or Elvis.

    Free your mind and your ass will follow

    due to current economic conditions, the light at the end of the tunnel will be turned off until futher notice.

    by rageagnstmach on Tue Nov 24, 2009 at 05:45:26 AM PST

  •  Let me just tell Mr. Almond and Mr. Herbert (0+ / 0-)

    that the missing ingredients are money and time. People don't have enough money to buy music and produce more energy and they don't have time to just sit and listen and relax, because when they're not working for someone else, they're busy serving themselves.

    Self-service is the bane of a thriving economy for the simple reason that every iota of benefit from economies of scale is lost when a person has to do everything, inexpertly, himself.

    How do you tell a predator from a protector? The predator will eat you sooner rather than later.

    by hannah on Tue Nov 24, 2009 at 05:51:13 AM PST

  •  Glenn Greenwald is criticizing this diary (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    wsexson, Uberbah

    In particular, the diarist's criticism of the Washington Post's Cohen:

    GREENWALD (11-24-09): Over at Daily Kos, Barbara Morrill complains that The Washington Post's Richard Cohen "is Karl Rove dressed up in pseudo-sadness" because -- according to her -- Cohen today "whines that the Attorney General announced that the United States follows the rule of law" by giving trials to 5 Guantanamo detainees.  I don't disagree with Morrill's general assessment of Cohen, but his point today is actually the exact opposite of what she describes.  Cohen wasn't accusing Obama of lacking moral clarity because he's giving trials to a few of the 9/11 defendants; rather, Cohen argues that the lack of moral clarity comes from denying trials to many, perhaps most, of the detainees, who will receive only military commissions or be subjected to indefinite detention with no trials.

    •  Greenwald not content just to bash Obama (0+ / 0-)

      It is strange how Greenwald opens his column by slapping down Barb for daring to say that Eric Holder announced an action that follows the rule of law. So not only is Obama wrong on so many things according to Greenwald, but so is anyone who supports him enough to say Obama follows the rule of law at all? On reading his column, anyone can see that Cohen does indeed criticize Holder for that announcement, saying that Obama should have made it and should have taken a more extreme position on the rule of law than Obama does, eliminating all military commisions and detention without trial of those deemed hostile to the US. So does that make Barb wrong in what she wrote? She definitely did not write the exact opposite of what Cohen wrote. It just isn't everything Cohen wrote.

      The point of Cohen's column is indeed to challenge Obama's morality. Cohen says it wasn't moral to bow to the Japanese emperor because Cohen says so. Cohen makes no allowance that Obama was following Obama's morality in bowing.

      Likewise is Obama being immoral in everything else Cohen and Greenwald say he is? Only if you accept Cohen's view of morality or Greenwald's view of morality as perfect. Doesn't Karl Rove set himself up as judge in the same way? Rove even sees his math as perfect. It's true that Cohen and Greenwald don't go that far, but that doesn't mean the comparison to Rove isn't valid.

      Barb's comment makes sense to me. Does everyone have to add everything Greenwald would add to be safe from his attack? I don't know, but what Greenwald wrote here isn't fair at all.

      •  it is because the Admin's actions is proof (6+ / 0-)

        the admin's stance on justice for detainees (and since the president has the power to identify anybody as an enemy combatant, that includes you and me) ... is immoral ... it is worse than Bush because it explicitly says what Bush thought was right

        Greenwald does not bash Barb's view of Cohen - but the notion that Obama is following the rule of law.  That is quite simply not true - it is continuing the Bush policies.

      •  Stop the whine (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Nada Lemming

        Greenwald's column ultimately isn't about Barb's misreading of Cohen's column.  It's about Obama's continuing re-entrenchment of Bush era policies regarding detention and trials of terrorist suspects and Guantanamo detainees.  Greenwald's arguments are, as always, well thought out and everything is documented.  

        Seriously, that Daily Kos doesn't engage in a more vigorous examination of these issues is shameful.

  •  Records (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    justiceputnam

    This is really off-topic, but I couldn't resist.

    What I’m getting at here is a deeper irony: technology has made the pursuit of our pleasures much easier. But in so doing, I often wonder if it has made them less sacred. My children will grow up in a world that makes every song they might desire instantly available to them. And yet I sort of pity them that they will never know the kind of yearning I did.

    Once upon a time, before even I was born, every town had its own band. people bought sheet music and played it. That, and their own singing, was all the music they had.
    When the music from people they knew was being replaced by scratchy vynil, I'm sure somebody mourned teh experience that the younger generation would miss.
    Times change. They probably always will.

    If "con" is the antonym of "pro," what is the antonym of "progress"?

    by Frank Palmer on Tue Nov 24, 2009 at 08:27:48 AM PST

    •  I've never wanted to be a neo-luddite... (0+ / 0-)

      ... about technologies; but there was a time when I railed against the inhumanity of fax machines and voice mail, then, in time, I wondered how we survived without them; same thing with cell phones, (I'm still on the fence about GPS, being a former boy scout whose many merit badges included tracking). I was never against word processors, though; the actual clipping and pasting a document, the re-typing and re-typing a manuscript that was publisher ready is one I'll never miss.

      There was a time, when the only record store on the west coast that had Zappa, Captain Beefheart, hell, the only one that had albums of Jacques
      Brel, was the Tower Records at the top of North Beach.

      When I was trying to play football at Cal Poly Pomona in the mid-70's, there were many student stand-by midnight flyers from LAX to SFO to get the latest Francis Cabrel or Firesign Theater album.

      Tower became a franchise. In time, its many stores are no more. I go to Ameoba here in Berkeley, occasionally, to buy a CD of this or that; but mostly I buy and download from Pandora or directly from the artist.

      My latest was some "world music" from a 2006 documentary entitled, Nomadak, made by two Basques musicians who travel the world recording various sounds and play a basque instrument called, a "txalaparta," which is planks of wood pounded on by wooden sticks; It evolved from workers crushing apples with big sticks and keeping rhythm with each other for amusement as they got a little drunk on hard cider.

      Ameoba didn't have it. There is still a search for these gems; but gawd it's so much easier!

      A Poet is at the same time a force for Solidarity and for Solitude --Pablo Neruda

      by justiceputnam on Tue Nov 24, 2009 at 11:12:57 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Richard Cohen (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Uberbah, quagmiremonkey

    is right about Obama's lack of moral clarity on the rule of law eg trials for some, indefinite detention for many. This should be self-evident but if you need a primer on the need for laws to apply to all equally to be called laws try GG:

    http://www.salon.com/...

    If they obey the king they must go against their conscience, and if they disobey they lose their lives. Catherine of Aragon

    by moon in the house of moe on Tue Nov 24, 2009 at 11:36:55 AM PST

  •  Problem with CDs... (0+ / 0-)

    ...is that it's tough as hell to find some kinds of obscure music nowadays in a legal fashion.  I like being able to find a song for a dollar on iTunes.

    Reject the drama like Barack Obama!

    by Stephen Daugherty on Tue Nov 24, 2009 at 11:38:35 AM PST

  •  I can't believe you called a Jewish man.. (0+ / 0-)

    "the other white meat". If this was on Fox News it would obviously be an intentionally anti-semitic slur (or it would be assumed to be so by many Kos readers)...

    If it was directed towards someone we would associate with humor such as Jon Stewart, it would assuredly be funny. But when referring to someone (Lieberman) that so many of us Daily Kos readers think is a detestable human being it might be a bit tasteless.

    Lieberman, "the other white meat", I have to admit it did make me chuckle.

  •  I was worried about an over scripted Obama until (0+ / 0-)

    I read something about him. It said that when he is thinking, consolidating, and forming his opinion it sometimes looks like indecision. This "old friend" said that it may take this first year to find and embrace his true self in this Presidency. Wish I had referenced it.... so take as a thought, not fact.

    Whatever time there is in a life is a lifetime.

    by Crispian Day on Sat Nov 28, 2009 at 09:24:29 PM PST

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