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As we head into the 2010 election cycle, take another look at the the massive enthusiasm gap between Democrats and Republicans revealed in our weekly tracking poll:

Daily Kos Poll

As Steve wrote in a detailed look at the poll's demographic breakdowns, if these numbers don't change, we're going to be on the unpleasant end of an electoral disaster in November 2010.

They GOP may be as nuts as it has ever been, but unless we get our electoral act together and change these numbers, we're going to get our clocks cleaned and those crazy Republicans are going to get elected.

There's still time to change course, but it's not going to be easy. So here's the question: what do you think needs to be done?

Originally posted to Daily Kos on Mon Nov 30, 2009 at 03:08 PM PST.


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Comment Preferences

  •  Time to scare up our troops (12+ / 0-)

    Clings to Music and the hope of a .500 Jets season.

    by Mro on Mon Nov 30, 2009 at 03:08:49 PM PST

    •  How do you recommend doing that? (10+ / 0-)

      Stupak amendment didn't really scare up any large number of our "troops," probably the opposite, as a douchebag Democrat sponsored the damned thing.

      •  So here's the question: (65+ / 0-)

        What do you think needs to be done?

        Stop giving in to Republicans on health care, Afghanistan, torture, and everything else.

        Why on earth should we be motivated to vote for people who sell us out on almost everything. They lost, yet we still have to capitulate to them?

        Get Some Balls and/or Thatchers!

          • Beck, Hannity, O'Reilly FREAK SHOW Stickers •••

        by KingOneEye on Mon Nov 30, 2009 at 03:21:11 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  the problem is corporate democrats (17+ / 0-)

          are as bad, in effect, as the Republicans.

          The corporate Democrats, especially Obama, are outstanding at co-opting progressive values to get elected, and then selling us down the river once elected.

          OBAMA supports torture, he supports widespread spying on Americans, he's going to escalate Afghanistan, he bails out banks at the expense of generations of Americans.  He puts the "needs" of Goldman Sachs far ahead of those of Main Street.

          What the FUCK?  

          Instead of OPPOSING Republicans, we should be attempting to teach them why progressive values are something we could actually agree on if we got past the dumb-ass arguments our media feeds us.

          •  Wow. Obama must be a giant douche! (4+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Cat Nerd, boofdah, anastasia p, Mangala

            That or you're exaggerating a tad.

            These days, politics only serve to give people an excuse to be assholes.

            by DawnG on Mon Nov 30, 2009 at 03:36:31 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  Truth seems to be somewhere in between ;-( (0+ / 0-)

              Medicare For All (TeddyCare):The Hundred Percent Solution™—and made in the USA!

              Next up campaign finance.

              by KingBolete on Mon Nov 30, 2009 at 03:47:24 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  Probably. (2+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                Desert Rose, boofdah

                Amazing how people think an "all or nothing" mentality is a good thing.

                These days, politics only serve to give people an excuse to be assholes.

                by DawnG on Mon Nov 30, 2009 at 03:49:27 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  I was one of the first to complain (19+ / 0-)

                  before the inauguration - about Geithner, Summers, and Goolsbee being Obama's chosen economic wizards. And I warned that if Obama did not adopt a merciless and punitive approach to Wall Street, he would have a very tough time winning a second term.

                  I was told to stfu.

                  The diarist asks, "what do you think needs to be done?"  I think all you frigging "creative class" yahoos, political junkies, and professional marketers should stfu and begin listening to what we working people are saying.

                  Roosevelt was called a traitor to his class, and the world and the country was better for it.

                  If Obama ends up being called a traitor to his class, the world and the country will be much worse for it.  

                  A conservative is a scab for the oligarchy.

                  by NBBooks on Mon Nov 30, 2009 at 03:59:12 PM PST

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  I do like Borofsky (6+ / 0-)

                    Wish he had more of a role to play. And Elizabeth Warren too.

                    The word bipartisan usually means some larger-than-usual deception is being carried out. - George Carlin

                    by mediaprof on Mon Nov 30, 2009 at 04:04:48 PM PST

                    [ Parent ]

                  •  Wow? I'm not a working person? (3+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    Winnie, boofdah, dotster

                    Damn.  What the hell am I doing here?  At MY JOB.

                    I'm intrigued by your "traitor to his class" comment.

                    Just what CLASS Is Obama anyway?  Raised by a single mother who died young and had to work hard for everything he's had.

                    Just what CLASS Do you think Obama is a traitor to exactly?

                    Do not mistake intelligence with elitism.

                    These days, politics only serve to give people an excuse to be assholes.

                    by DawnG on Mon Nov 30, 2009 at 04:16:18 PM PST

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  Plenty of intelligent people are elitists. (8+ / 0-)

                      And tons aren't born into it either.

                      The idea that a modest start prevents anyone from becoming an elitist asshole has been disproved by countless true-life stories from the annals of American history.  

                      Just because she is a real asshole, I'll cite Maria Bartiromo as one example of the fact that growing up working class in Queens or Brooklyn doesn't guarantee that you end up giving a shit about anyone but yourself.

                      So, give up the "poor Obama" story which is not exactly accurate given his Columbia and Havard pedigree anyway.  Try citing demostrative examples of how his supposed empathy for the poor, working and middle classes.  I have yet to see a real emphasis from his White House on that large majority of the people who make up this country.

                      •  If I became a millionaire overnight.. (0+ / 0-)

                        ...or hell, even if I worked hard at it, I wouldn't be "high class".  Not that I'd accept anyone else telling me what or who I am.

                        I don't know what Obama is or not.  But I am certainly not qualified to judge that.  I just know he's at least SEEN the other side.  He's not some waste of skin heir of fortune.

                        These days, politics only serve to give people an excuse to be assholes.

                        by DawnG on Mon Nov 30, 2009 at 04:40:38 PM PST

                        [ Parent ]

                        •  Most of the Kennedys that I know have (2+ / 0-)
                          Recommended by:
                          boofdah, JVolvo

                          exhibited a more empathetic position on the poor, working and middle classes in their work and contributions than Obama has shown thus far.  They are wildly wealthy, priviledged and sheltered and yet they have more sympathy and empathy than he seems to at this point.

                          Is it that he lacks the courage to stand up for the folks who need his help?  Maybe.  Maybe he really feels for all of these people, but can't muster the courage to take up their cause.  Maybe that's it.  But it is just as likely that he is not much of a rare bird at all who saw poverty up close, found his way out and didn't look back because all those people that he knew who were poor were probably losers who weren't worthy anyway.  Although, given his experience at least from high school onward, he wasn't exposed to a whole lot of poor people.  He was ensconsed with elites - just as his intellectual mother would have wanted him to be.

                          •  Or maybe it has nothing to do with courage. (0+ / 0-)

                            perhaps Obama is simply trying to work within what he perceives as "the system" rather than bucking the system.

                            These days, politics only serve to give people an excuse to be assholes.

                            by DawnG on Mon Nov 30, 2009 at 04:52:20 PM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  AKA lacking in the courage to effect real CHANGE. (3+ / 0-)


                          •  REAL change or ENOUGH change? (0+ / 0-)

                            the two are not the same.

                            I think he is enacting REAL change, just maybe not enough of it.

                            These days, politics only serve to give people an excuse to be assholes.

                            by DawnG on Mon Nov 30, 2009 at 04:59:45 PM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  He's nibbled around the edges when he's (5+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            redwagon, Lynwaz, JVolvo, daeros, svboston

                            gotten even remotely close.  Other than that, we've seen little real change - or even just real change rhetoric that might have had a positive effect on the debate for years to come.  The Obama White House retreated just at the moment that they had the most strength.  Now their retreat will come back to haunt them because the appear to have been afraid of capitalizing on their power and moving good policy forward for the benefit of voters.  70+% of whom apparently support the public option for instance and yet the Obama White House can't find the courage to stand with that bipartisan coalition.

                            Seventy freakin' percent!  There are few if any issues that find that kind of public support in American politics and yet somehow Olympia Snowe gets their exclusive attention.  Why in the world didn't they have the courage to put that 70% of the public onto Snowe's tail and let them convince her and the conservaDems that they need to get with the program and start working for the people who elected them?  Why?  Sigh.

                          •  i really liked this comment (0+ / 0-)

                   I only support fundraising for real democrats!

                            by daeros on Tue Dec 01, 2009 at 01:57:37 AM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                    •  Obama is middle class, clearly. (4+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      Jim J, DawnG, JVolvo, svboston

                      He certainly is not in the upper class, as Franklin Roosevelt clearly was. Hence my comment:

                      Roosevelt was called a traitor to his class, and the world and the country was better for it.

                      If Obama ends up being called a traitor to his class, the world and the country will be much worse for it.

                      Roosevelt was called a traitor to his class by plutocrats. That was OK, because changing the rules of the game so that they stopped favoring Roosevelt's class allowed the working class of the day to become the middle class.

                      If Obama ends up being called a traitor to his class, it will mean that the plutocracy continues to rule this country, while the middle class disappears. And what's happening to the working class is even worse.

                      A conservative is a scab for the oligarchy.

                      by NBBooks on Mon Nov 30, 2009 at 04:43:06 PM PST

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  I just wanted to point out that there's a lot... (0+ / 0-)

                        ...of disagreement as to what Obama's "class" is.

                        And that we're even parsing this seems rather pathetic and inappropriately judgemental to me.

                        These days, politics only serve to give people an excuse to be assholes.

                        by DawnG on Mon Nov 30, 2009 at 04:45:28 PM PST

                        [ Parent ]

                      •  Wrong. (2+ / 0-)
                        Recommended by:
                        happymisanthropy, Square Knot

                        Barack Obama's net worth in 2008 was several million dollars, predominantly from his book sales.

                        That's not middle class.

                        He may not have Oprah Winfrey or Michael Bloomberg money, but the Obamas have money - more of it than 99% of their fellow citizens.

                        Sure, if you are comparing him to ultra-wealthy billionaires, it may seem odd placing Obama in the same social class as someone like Bill Gates.  But he definitely has had more money than the vast majority of Americans for several years now.

                        His house is worth more than ten times what the median house price is in the United States.

                        Middle-class people don't own in $2 Million homes.

                        So yeah, I get what you're saying when you point out that he doesn't come from the same elite group as people like FDR or the Kennedys, but the guy isn't from the middle class, and hasn't been for a pretty long time now.  He may have come from more humble beginnings and he may be mostly self-made, but he was financially very well off before he even began running for president.

                        So it's idiotic to say that Barack Obama is "middle clas", when the reality is that he has enough money to be in the top 1% of Americans in personal wealth.

                    •  You're not a working person? (0+ / 0-)

                      You have the time and opportunity to post to the internet while at work, so no, you are not. And I'm asking you the same question. What the hell are you doing there? At YOUR JOB. Shouldn't you be working?

                  •  you were one who helped educate me (3+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    redwagon, lotlizard, JVolvo

                    about Geithner and Summers.  Since then, the deeper I dig the worse it gets.  

                  •  I wish (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:

                    our elected officials would stop thinking about the next election and start thinking about doing the right thing.  If you do the right thing and you stick to your values, people will keep voting for you.

                    Look at Kucinich!  People think he is a fucking joke, but he keeps voting his conscience and damned if he doesn't keep getting re-elected year after year!

                    Why does Obama want to be the next Johnson?  Johnson had the beginnings of a war on his hand when he came to power - he could have gotten out of it - instead he stayed in and got tens of thousands of Americans killed.  He did get the voting rights act and great society stuff passed, but he could have done that with less bloodshed on foreign shores...

                  •  I wish I were a sock puppet (0+ / 0-)

                    so I could rec that comment multiple times. IT IS THE ECONOMY STUPID!

                  •  creative class liberals (0+ / 0-)

                    The creative class, as you called them, are every bit as much our enemies as the conservatives are. They hold the working class in as much contempt as any billionaire corporatist. Read some of their posts. They call us dumbass crackers, inbred rednecks, red state racists. With that kind of friendship, no wonder we hate them. When the going gets tough, as it will, you can count on these creative class persons to hide behind their curtains while the rest of us useless eaters get our heads bashed in. And when it's all over, they'll hail themselves as great cultural warriors because they wrote a few blog posts during the upheaval. The creative class will never stfu and listen to us working people. After all, we're too damn stupid to know what's in our best interest. Only a liberal elitist can tell us that.

              •  Yes. Douches can be half-empty or half-full. n/t (0+ / 0-)

                The Dutch kids' chorus Kinderen voor Kinderen wishes all the world's children freedom from hunger, ignorance, and war.

                by lotlizard on Tue Dec 01, 2009 at 09:43:55 AM PST

                [ Parent ]

            •  I don't mean to minimize, but (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:

              shouldn't those bars be different widths, to represent the proportion of the electorate that each group comprises?  I mean, 2x the number of goopers as dems planning to vote sounds bad, but if there are 2x as many dems as goopers, it evens out, right?  

              •  probably, but just imagine if dem voters (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                Cat Nerd

                weren't so unmotivated.  Imagine if dem voters had the discipline of republicans.  Instead, we have to go knocking on their doors with them peeking behind the curtains, year after year - "please come out and vote.  Please come out and vote."

                Disgusting.  Makes me want to puke.

          •  He does? (0+ / 0-)

            Somehow I missed all that. Other than escalating Afghanistan, which he ran on doing. Maybe you missed that one.

            In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice; but in practice, there always is a difference. - Yogi Berra

            by blue aardvark on Mon Nov 30, 2009 at 03:37:53 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  Did you miss the FISA vote? (8+ / 0-)

              Sure it happened in 2008 before he was elected.  But that was simply proof that Obama is the master of co-opting progressive values while simultaneously acting against them.

              Did you know that way back on November 13, 2009, White House counsel Gregg Craig announced his resignation?

              Craig was behind Obama’s Executive Orders which banned torture and the pledge to close Guantanamo within one year. For these transgressions, he was effectively sacked. It says a lot about where this Administration is headed that even a well established figure like Craig can run afoul of it, simply by doing the right thing.

              And in a related vein

              On November 24, 2009, Phillip Carter, cofounder of Iraq and Afghanistan Veterans of America, resigned as Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defense for detainee policy, a post he had held since April. Carter stated he was leaving for family reasons, a euphemism for a dissatisfaction with the job or in lieu of a public firing. His departure comes just 11 days after White House counsel Greg Craig announced his resignation.

              So the two men who were most responsible for efforts to close Guantanamo and afford Constitutionally prescribed legal rights to detainees are gone. This is hardly a coincidence.

              For a long, long list of what is NOT progressive about this administration, read here

            •  No. He said we would catch Bin Laden (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              redwagon, lotlizard

              We would focus on catching Bin Laden.

              That is not the same thing as escalation.

              "Catching" infers special ops and leg work of investigations and coordination with allies to ferret out the networks and Bin Laden.

              We've already tried the "bombing them back to the Stone Age" gig. It doesn't work.

              <div style="color: #a00000;"> Our... constitutional heritage rebels at the thought of giving government the power to control men's minds. Thurgood Marshal

              by bronte17 on Mon Nov 30, 2009 at 03:53:23 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  Who cares what he said anyway? (3+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                redwagon, lotlizard, JVolvo

                What he does is what counts.

                Escalating Afghanistan should stand alone as a point on which he is judged by voters and citizens of the United States.

                He's going to do what he is going to do and we're going to make our judgment on the wisdom of his decisions.

                Personally, I think he's crazy to up the ante in Afghanistan, but clearly someone has convinced him that his legacy won't suffer the same fate as LBJ's.  Tons of "smart" people around this President they say.  Rolling eyes.

          •  We had no taste of victory whatsoever (14+ / 0-)

            Oh, the inauguration was a thing of beauty, but that is cream filling and not meat & potatoes on the family table.

            We were told to STFU about torture. Told to STFU about the criminality of the bush regime.

            No one listened when we said Stiglitz and Krugman. No one on our side wanted Geithner and Summers. That was crammed down our throat.

            Lilly Ledbetter was a good touch, but isn't really sustaining considering the territory we are in.

            The GOP sucked our blood and treasury for years... and Rush is still poking us.

            And we sit and take it. And to hear tell the conservative failures are now our fault for being passive asses. Or something.

            We had no victory to savor. It appears it was hollow. Someone won. But it wasn't us.

            Bush threw the tax cut to his base almost immediately. They got red meat. Then they got a hyped macho-strutting war. No one... not even Feinstein or Lieberman said "Boo" about the horrendous deficit-causing actions.

            <div style="color: #a00000;"> Our... constitutional heritage rebels at the thought of giving government the power to control men's minds. Thurgood Marshal

            by bronte17 on Mon Nov 30, 2009 at 03:49:40 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  Some of us were getting disenchanted (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:

              even before the inaugeration. Like when Obama placed a big turf in the punchbowl named Rick Warren (who's now a champion of African genocide).

              The Obama administration has fired 532 soldiers for being gay as of 11/29/09.

              by Scott Wooledge on Mon Nov 30, 2009 at 08:06:27 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

          •  I'm afraid your gross exaggeration (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            askew, cville townie, dotster

            is almost as useless as doing nothing. If we paint Obama as JUST AS EVIL as Bush, then there are no standards left and why should anyone bother to try to elect anyone since the only people pure enough to support probably aren't electable?

            Campaign finance is a huge issue, and I'm pessimistic about how much we can handle it, but it will only get worse if we demonize Obama, whose campaign was NOT largely corporate financed. Losing your compass and becoming cynical about everyone is to deny the possibility of working to make things better.

            Stop Rob "The Job Outsourcer" Portman. Jennifer Brunner for Senate

            by anastasia p on Mon Nov 30, 2009 at 04:08:16 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  I didn't say demonize - but let's not (4+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              redwagon, JVolvo, edtastic, svboston

              pussy foot around this either.

              Obama is a coroporate, elite, washington-insider tool.

              Period.  Does that suck?  You bet it sucks.

              As they say in AA - the first step is recognizing you have a problem.

              We have a problem Houston.

            •  Obama played us. (5+ / 0-)

              The sorry tactic of conflating criticism of Obama with "painting [him] as just as evil as Bush" is intellectual and politcal chicken shit.  

              Obama had from the earliest days of his campaign proclaimed himself a progressive.  There is ample weight to the argument that the progressive community gave him the much needed edge (and it was only an edge) to beat Clinton in the primary.  This is partly why his stunning reversal to overturn FISA while previously saying he would filibuster any bill that gave Telecoms immunity sent shock waves through the progressive community.  He did that after he'd won the nomination.  If it wasn't actually calculated it sure looked it.

              From the day he was elected it was one disappointing appointment after another, Emanuel, Summers, Giethner, Gates, even to some extent Clinton.  He asked a despicable anti-choice, anti-gay, fundamentalist to give the prayer at his inauguration.  

              Now we have troop escalation in Afghanistan, a lackluster HCR bill with only the public option to redeem it hanging by a thread, devastating unemployment, and Wall Street boors parading their wealth and power while the tax payers have been saddled with the bill for their bailout.  

              He promised change and we poured our money and time into getting him elected, why are we surprised 40% of Democrats say they won't vote?   What fucking good does it do?!  

              But lets not forget the other craven players in this Democratic opera: Lincoln, Nelson, Stupac, and those screaching Blue Dogs (a caucus begun by Rahm Emanuel).  They disserve at least as much approbation as Obama.  But don't be a fool, Obama set the cowardly tone and the cowards are running the show.

              And your out of your league man if you think I'm just going to stfu!  

          •  Yep, you got it right. He's weak. (0+ / 0-)
        •  That's pretty much what I was going to say (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:

          So I'll just second it, or in this case, twenty third it.

        •  How do you spell disillusioned? (6+ / 0-)

          Democratic base.

          •  The ugliest part of this is (10+ / 0-)

            That when the Democrats ask their base what we are disillusioned about and we tell them it's because of too much pandering to the conservatives they'll just say "Nah! That's not it!" They need to learn that they can't take us for granted and if it takes more disastrous Republican control for it to sink in, so be it. It will be on their collective heads.

            •  Except (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              JVolvo, DeanObama

              They need to learn that they can't take us for granted and if it takes more disastrous Republican control for it to sink in, so be it. It will be on their collective heads.

              It won't be on their heads. They'll still get the gov't handouts and health care. It will be on all of our heads, and bodies, and checkbooks.

              The word bipartisan usually means some larger-than-usual deception is being carried out. - George Carlin

              by mediaprof on Mon Nov 30, 2009 at 04:06:12 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  It already is. (0+ / 0-)

                What has Democratic control done for you in your life so far? I'm glad the Bushies aren't in charge anymore but I've waited almost a full year and to be honest, I'm not any better off than I was.

                •  almost a full year (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:

                  in the scheme of things is a pretty short amount of time.

                  Obama has done some good things (like the Lilly Ledbetter act) and some stupid things (like a lot of the Nat. Sec. crap), and this Afghan thing is looking like more of the latter.

                  HCR? Who knows. I do know that the president can't control a bunch of dipshit conservadems.

                  All that said, the pain will only increase if Repubs get back into power, or even gain enough seats to jam up the Congress even more.

                  And all those dems who lose? They'll just go down to K Street and take up there after a year. Or hop over to Goldman Sachs or whatever.

                  I get what you're saying. I just don't know of a good answer.

                  The word bipartisan usually means some larger-than-usual deception is being carried out. - George Carlin

                  by mediaprof on Mon Nov 30, 2009 at 04:17:17 PM PST

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  I fully agree, Obama has done some good things (3+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    redwagon, lotlizard, JVolvo

                    But he has also turned hard right in some cases and in many instances has completely reversed positions. My major issue is that his financial team has done a wonderful job rescuing Wall Street but I'm still unemployed almost a year after I was laid off. When is it my turn for help?

                    •  Wish I had an answer (1+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      Cat Nerd

                      I wish your turn was in February. Hopefully, help will come soon.

                      Cold comfort, I know.

                      I'm hoping for positive steps in that direction.

                      The word bipartisan usually means some larger-than-usual deception is being carried out. - George Carlin

                      by mediaprof on Mon Nov 30, 2009 at 05:48:45 PM PST

                      [ Parent ]

            •  Well, maybe we should be saying (5+ / 0-)

              it's not so much that as it is taking conservative values more seriously than they take ours, and pooh-poohing us and telling us to just sit down and suck it up.

              Stop Rob "The Job Outsourcer" Portman. Jennifer Brunner for Senate

              by anastasia p on Mon Nov 30, 2009 at 04:11:51 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

        •  And a jobs program n/t (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          redwagon, boofdah

          The word bipartisan usually means some larger-than-usual deception is being carried out. - George Carlin

          by mediaprof on Mon Nov 30, 2009 at 04:04:01 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

        •  You hit the nail on the head! (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
      •  Right now there is some apathy...... (7+ / 0-)

        So what? This Administration takes criticism for not solving everything in a whole ten months. The GOP has been allowed to hold forth on debate and the noise machine fueled by the winger radio waves has hardly, in any sense, been challenged.

        A year from now, a lot of things may well be differant. As the mid terms approach it will be apparent that the Administration will have succeeded on some issues ( OK -- maybe not all -- but some ). The GOP will still be a fractured, policyless entity, sounding ever more shrill in the face of Democratic success and an improving situation.

        I would be much more worried if those polled said they intended to switch their vote. Just staying home is a differant matter --- we know where they are, and a lot can change to remotivate them.

        And they can be pestered to the polls.  A GOTV problem is a heck of a lot easier to deal with than ome may think --- it's fixable with good old fashioned door knockin' and shoe leather.

        But really --- it's been ten months. It was a President that was elected --- ot a magician.

        it tastes like burning...

        by eastvan on Mon Nov 30, 2009 at 03:26:20 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Lot's of luck with that (7+ / 0-)

          Imagine going door-to-door with the essential talking point that at least Obama's a smidgeon better than Bush and by getting out to support your Blue DINO incumbent you can help things not get too much worse.  Anyone who can make that sale ought ought to be working for big biz.

          Medicare For All (TeddyCare):The Hundred Percent Solution™—and made in the USA!

          Next up campaign finance.

          by KingBolete on Mon Nov 30, 2009 at 03:53:34 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

        •  I'm thinking lower down (8+ / 0-)

          Here on a state level it's not even about Obama so much. And it's not "apathy" — there's a lot of anger and frustration from the hardcore activists the worker-bees of the party. There is a sense we're not being listened to and when we speak, we are not being heard. I also don't believe any polls, because polls are almost always deceptive in one way or another. But I do believe the frsutration I see for instance from women who are told by our state party that running a rabidly right-wing theocratic anti-choice candidate on the Democratic ticket just isn't a big deal and we should be quiet and go along. If she's on the ticket, I picture us losing a couple of hundred thousand women voters — and potentially all our state races. And that would be so disastrous for this state, we'd basically have to close our doors this time. 16 years of Republican rule damaged us so badly that three years (so far) of Democratic partial rule have barely been able to make a dent, given the national economy. We will have no chance next time, all because our Democratic party thought it wasn't important that one of their statewide candidates was virulently anti-choice and anti-gay. Just didn't matter. Shut up and be good little girls and LGBT people and work for us, no matter what.

          Stop Rob "The Job Outsourcer" Portman. Jennifer Brunner for Senate

          by anastasia p on Mon Nov 30, 2009 at 04:16:36 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

      •  Stupak killed a lot of women's enthusiasm (9+ / 0-)

        in all likelihood. We feel like we've been trying to hold back a tidal wave with our hands and now they are coming for us from the inside. We have to try to get through to the party on all levels that it is IMPERATIVE that, whatever they accomplish or don't accomplish legislatively — I think most of us recognize it's a tough climate — they absolutely MUST stop treating their solid progressive base with scoffing and dismissal, as if it were THEIR viewponits that were the crazy, marginal, teabaggy pnes.

        And choice is the perfect example. If higher-ups in the party keep telling women that their concerns about a woman's right to control her own body just isn't that IMPORTANT compared to passing some sort of health-care bill the involvement of women will drop off. And here in Ohio where we have Republicans so extreme crazy and devoid of relevant qualifications that there is no way they should be electable our state party is handing us a candidate for the critical secretary of state race that is so extremely anti-choice most Republican women wouldn't support her. The attitude of a lot of party folks is "Well have you MET her?" as if her charm and attractiveness will somehow paper over the fact that she wants to ban all abortions except to save the mother's life opposes stem-cell research and wants a fetal-personhood amendment (and refuses to support pregnancy prevention bills). To me that seems like I'm being belittled along with all the other Democratic women in Ohio.

        Meanwhile, I'm worried it may be too late. I've been urging activist women here to contact the party and let them know how they feel and I'm getting a lot of "There's no use' and "They won't listen." These are the women who donate organize fundraisers and volunteer — not people who are casually interested.

        I'm deeply concerned — and this has to start with the people at the top of the party acknowledging our concerns and suggesting that we are being heard, even if everything can't be acted on right now.

        Stop Rob "The Job Outsourcer" Portman. Jennifer Brunner for Senate

        by anastasia p on Mon Nov 30, 2009 at 04:03:08 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Stupak sapped my enthusiasm (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          lotlizard, svboston

          I have voted since 1980. Even when I voted straight ticket Dem I felt more empowered by losing than I do by winning now.

          I have no allies. There is no pro-choice. If I get pregnant I should have the baby or die of septic infections as a murderer should. Dems and Obama do not care if I live or die. It took Democratic majorities to set back women's health fifty years. Why should I care if they win or lose?

        •  The party is doing an incredibly bad thing. (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:

          I've been unhappy with the pro-choice movement, and I think they need to re-think and modify their strategy, because I think they're losing the fight with the public. Nevertheless, you get a whole lot of bad with the theocrats.  Look at Stupak.  He's willing to destroy health care reform if he can, if he doesn't get his own way.

          These theocrats are a package, and it's not just about abortion or gay rights.  They are full-fledged true believers in craziness.  They should never be allowed into a governmental position if we can possibly avoid it.  To let one of them be secretary of state and hold the running of elections in his/her hands is craziness.  They don't care about what most people would think of as fairness.  They believe that anything goes that furthers their own agenda. They believe they're doing God's work, and whatever they do in the name of God's work is just fine.

          Is there anyone else that can run for Secretary of State on the Democratic ticket? Apparently the state party doesn't really know what's going on with the theocrats, or doesn't realize that the theocrats really are theocrats.  Convincing the state party probably isn't going to work if it hasn't worked by now, but there've been plenty of times when the people have not done what the establishment of the party tells them to do, and it sure looks like this needs to be one of those times.

        •  even if they acknowledged your concerns (0+ / 0-)

          ...and even if they tell you you're being heard, how could you trust them to tell the truth? They'll tell you whatever they think you want to hear, then when your back is turned, they'll bury their knives in it to the hilt.

      •  At this point (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:

        I say the ball is in Congress's court.

        Either they deliver or they don't. All the field workers and volunteers in the country won't turn out the vote if the Dem's deserve to lose.

        I'm not worried about government bureaucrats between me and my doctor; I'm worried about insurance bureaucrats between me and my Senator.

        by PsychicToaster on Mon Nov 30, 2009 at 08:05:31 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  yep...people get fed up (0+ / 0-)
    •  Would be easier... (38+ / 0-)

      If we didn't have daily reminders that Democrats are completely spineless and uninterested in making the kind of changes we really need.  Public option is increasingly looking unlikely and even in it's current form is pretty weak.  Obama is set to send 30K more troops to Afghanistan.  

      I mean yeah, Democrats are better than Republicans, but that's not enough to energize people.  If that were true, Kerry would have beaten Bush.  

      •  Thinking of the GOP 'winning' energizes me! (8+ / 0-)

        Geeze, we decided long before the 2006 election that it is US who have to be 'energized'--we wanted to ''WIN!!!

        All I have to do is remember the HORROR of having the GOP in power and for sure I'm not willing to let that happen again!

        Think about it, sure the dems haven't done ALL we want but for sure they've done more in this one years that the GOP did for us in the whole TWELVE years they ruled the Congress!

        I think anyone who doesn't care about getting up the energy to see that doesn't happen again--

        Well, that's just sad.

        This union may never be perfect, but generation after generation has shown that it can always be perfected. Barack Obama

        by Wary on Mon Nov 30, 2009 at 03:36:31 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  It is sad (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Wary, svboston

          It is sad that it truly appears to many like it doesn't matter if Democrats win or Republicans win.

          I have to say one thing in their defense, though. My personal situation isn't significantly different from where I think it would have been had McCain won.

          I'm sure that'll get some flames, but it is true.

          The top tax bracket should be 90% for all types of income over $1,000,000.

          by atheistben on Mon Nov 30, 2009 at 03:50:34 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  Well, Dang, I know mine would have been (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Cat Nerd, boofdah, dotster

            a WHOLE LOT WORSE if McCain had won! Do you think we'd have had a 'stimulus' bill? It saved my job.

            Anyone think all those unemployment extensions would have been passed?

            Tax cuts for the middle class?

            Any health care bill at all?

            Look I'm not happy about Afghanistan BUT if McCain had won--we'd be watching him 'following Bin Laden to the Gates of Hell!"

            AND the entire world would STILL be hating us!

            This union may never be perfect, but generation after generation has shown that it can always be perfected. Barack Obama

            by Wary on Mon Nov 30, 2009 at 04:08:44 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  The stimuluses began (0+ / 0-)

              before Obama was in office. There was a stimulus in 2008. There was a stimulus in 2002 or 2003, IIRC. The Republicans can pass stimulus packages.

              I haven't seen an adjustment to the middle classes taxes. I have only seen the stimulus break, which happened in 2008, too.

              There is no healthcare bill yet. And if we do get one, we'll see how effective it is. We certainly aren't getting what we want on healthcare.

              The rest of the stuff is kinda meaningless in my personal life, which my original post was about. I'm not saying I think everything is exactly the same regarding Obama/McCain. I'm just saying many people are justified in thinking that Obama and Democrats really aren't doing much for them.

              The top tax bracket should be 90% for all types of income over $1,000,000.

              by atheistben on Tue Dec 01, 2009 at 08:32:15 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

        •  Most of us would be energized at that thought, (0+ / 0-)

          but we have to think about how to reenergize those dems who aren't part of the base, and who, according to the poll, may not even bother to vote next time. They've become disillusioned, and it will take something pretty substantial, possibly, to get them back at the polls next year.

    •  NOOOOOoooooo! (13+ / 0-)

      Obama isn't doing what I want him to so I'm going to take my vote and stay home.

    •  It's pretty easy (21+ / 0-)
      1. Jobs Jobs Jobs
      1. Stop pissing on the base
      1. Jobs Jobs Jobs
      1. Dollar-for-Dollar bail-out for people and Wall Street.  Honestly, for the money they gave Wall Street, they could have paid off every credit card and mortgage in America, and that sure would have helped the banks!
      1. Did I mention?  Jobs Jobs Jobs!

      In every race, in every district, in every state, the leftmost electable person! Primary the Blue Dogs! BE LEFT OR GET LEFT.

      by ultrageek on Mon Nov 30, 2009 at 03:34:47 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  So those people who got us here GOP (0+ / 0-)

        People don't 'care' if they get back in to finish the job of ripping us off some more?


        This union may never be perfect, but generation after generation has shown that it can always be perfected. Barack Obama

        by Wary on Mon Nov 30, 2009 at 03:37:55 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Yep - Scare Tactics and Threats (4+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          high uintas, JVolvo, emsprater, Clarknt67

          won't work, imo. Democrats will actually have to deliver. Saying, "we're not teh Republicans" isn't going to motivate the disaffected base, imo.

          Democrats have to deliver - the threats and scare tactics won't be enough to stop the people who are leaning toward staying home.

          There's still time for elected Democrats to do this.

          The crooks are leaving have left office, unprosecuted and scot-free.

          by BentLiberal on Mon Nov 30, 2009 at 04:14:07 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

      •  And you should mention (5+ / 0-)

        pissing on the base a few more times too because I actually think that's key to getting the activists and motivators on board. We need to up the pressure on ALL branches and levels of the party to STFU with dissing our concerns. Even if you can't do something  for us right now, don't tell us it doesn't matter and it's not important, or that we're the extremists.

        Stop Rob "The Job Outsourcer" Portman. Jennifer Brunner for Senate

        by anastasia p on Mon Nov 30, 2009 at 04:18:41 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

    •  Several Obama bashing diaries ought to (6+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      askew, brillo, boofdah, dotster, Mro, Mike Peterson

      do the trick!

      Conservative Christian is an Oxymoron.

      by kitebro on Mon Nov 30, 2009 at 03:35:05 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  It's insane. All the bashing comments (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        askew, kitebro, boofdah

        and diaries do no one any good.  All they do is spread the feelings of apathy and failure.  If anyone thinks that endlessly repeating "Obama's bad, Democrats are bad" is going to improve the situation, I suggest some mental health care or a kick in the head.  All it does is make every anchor and reporter more likely to report the doom and gloom, and who in the world is going to be motivated to vote for Democrats with that theme?  And then we have more and not better Republicans obstructing and bringing any hope of desired change to a complete halt.  I guess people are trying to get back to those fun Bush type years, so they can have something to really gripe about.  Heaven.  

    •  need to change the box sizes to show (0+ / 0-)
      total numbers of voters in each segment.

      what is 80% of the 20% of voters now identifying themselves as rethugs?

    •  wrong way to look at it... (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      redwagon, emsprater

      ...the fault does not lie in us 'the troops' it lies in the leadership.  Lead and we will follow.

      We Glory in war, in the shedding of human blood. What fools we are.

      by delver rootnose on Mon Nov 30, 2009 at 05:12:02 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  we need something to believe in (9+ / 0-)

    we believed in Obama's election, in the power of change

    we now find change to be difficult, which most of us would have admitted, had we thought about it

    now, in a lousy economy, with poor job futures, rogue states au go go, and wars we can not win and peaces we cannot afford to lose, we need hope, now more than ever

    (with apologies for the Nixon reference)

    "Good Lord, how can the rich bear to die?" -- Nikos Kazantzakis

    by Shocko from Seattle on Mon Nov 30, 2009 at 03:09:50 PM PST

    •  Fear is a great motivator (10+ / 0-)

      Maybe the Dem voter base is acting all complacent now, but just wait until it dawns on them how bad it could be if the other side takes charge again.  

      I don't think this poll is a valid predictor of how it will really turn out.  On the other hand, if it motivates activists to get their butt in gear, more power to it.

      And once again, the forces of niceness and goodness have triumphed over the forces of evil and rottenness." --Maxwell Smart

      by emobile on Mon Nov 30, 2009 at 03:16:31 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  YEAH! (8+ / 0-)

        Those dirty Republicans would probably escalate wars, bend to the will of Israel, give us half-baked health care reform without a public option and... umm... heeeyyyy waidaminute! :)

        I do mean that jokingly, I know Democrats are better than Republicans, but it might help matters if the differences were made a bit more... striking?

        •  But there is a difference when it comes to issues (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:

          like healtcare,womens rights, labor issues, ..the real Dmeocrats in Congress that, not the conservadems or Blue Dogs.

        •  They would: (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          csquared, CS in AZ

          Invade Iran and North Korea; give Israel 100x as much support as Obama; give us NO HEALTH CARE REFORM AT ALL, and cut taxes on the rich some more.

          In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice; but in practice, there always is a difference. - Yogi Berra

          by blue aardvark on Mon Nov 30, 2009 at 03:39:42 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  Well... (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            1. They would not invade Iran because invading Iran is physically impossible to do.  They'd have done it already if they could have.  They didn't.
            1. They can't invade North Korea.  Invading North Korea is harder than invading Iran.
            1. While Obama talked tough, the practical effects of our policy in Israel haven't changed a lick since Bush was in office.  Israel does what it wants and we do nothing to stop them.  
            1. We don't know yet if we're getting health care reform at all.  I largely grant the point that at least they are trying.
            1. Yes, they would try to cut taxes on the rich.  It's the only thing they know how to do.
            •  Invading Afghanistan (0+ / 0-)

              is harder than either.

              In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice; but in practice, there always is a difference. - Yogi Berra

              by blue aardvark on Tue Dec 01, 2009 at 08:55:00 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  Not really (0+ / 0-)

                I grant from a purely logistical perspective, maintaining a military operation in Afghanistan is an enormous pain in the ass.  There's not a really good way to get troops and their requisite supplies into the country.  However, Iran has a few critical problems that make it more difficult to consider invading:

                1. Iran controls a tremendous amount of oil.  Invading them would lead to shortages of oil in there markets, price spikes, etc.  
                1. One of the biggest investors in Iran's oil industry (due largely to our trade sanctions) is China.  China would not react well to us putting our tanks on top of their oil.  Did I mention we owe China a big pile of money?
                1. Iran is on one side of the Straits of Hormuz, the relatively shallow and narrow inlet to the Persian Gulf.  They could, in retaliation, attempt to block the inlet by sinking tankers there, etc.  That would have the effect of cutting of oil shipments from much of Saudi Arabia, Qatar, etc.  See also previous comments on oil and price spikes.
                1. Iran has a lot more people making the number of troops necessary to establish any kind of control much higher than Afghanistan.

                Afghanistan is a logistical nightmare, but the reality is that it's an unimportant little backwater that's largely irrelevant to the rest of the world.  That's what made it such a great place to train terrorists.  Invading there doesn't threaten world oil markets or anybody's economy so once we pay off the right people to get out gear there, the rest is much more feasible.

                •  You make some good points (0+ / 0-)

                  But I think that if we decided to go all-out into Iran, the Straits of Hormuz would be 90% under our control within 48 hours. I would estimate the life span of a Silkworm missile near the water to be minutes.

                  In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice; but in practice, there always is a difference. - Yogi Berra

                  by blue aardvark on Tue Dec 01, 2009 at 10:20:23 AM PST

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  Perhaps true... (0+ / 0-)

                    But consider the mere threat of that situation, it's effect on oil prices, and the time it would take to build sufficient forces for such an invasion.  You'd be telegraphing the attack months ahead of time, and that would immediately put a fear premium on oil.  Even if ultimately it turned out that you could secure the straits, the fear that you might not be able to would do the necessary damage.

        •  ReThugs would not have passed Stupak (0+ / 0-)

          That took the Dems.

      •  Fear won't be enough (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        high uintas

        Democrats are going to have to actually deliver.

        The crooks are leaving have left office, unprosecuted and scot-free.

        by BentLiberal on Mon Nov 30, 2009 at 04:15:57 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

    •  Actually... (9+ / 0-)

      we now find change to be difficult, which most of us would have admitted, had we thought about it

      What we're finding isn't that change is difficult, but rather that change is nearly impossible.  Basically the way our system is set up today you need 65+ seats in the Senate to make serious change happen.  That's not something that will ever happen again.  We're in a country that is too polarized to have that kind of land slide.

    •  It isn't the difficulty incumbent in change (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      so much as the difficulty in changing the incumbents point of view.

      no remuneration was received by anyone for the writing of this message

      by ItsSimpleSimon on Mon Nov 30, 2009 at 03:20:16 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  don't forget to add O's appointment of the man (6+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Jim J, Chi, natasha, redwagon, lotlizard, emsprater

      who gave 100 cents on the dollar to AIG's counterparties, including Goldman Sachs - accounting for $ 13 billion [no strings attached] - with $17 billion now going out as bonuses by GS - claiming the 'sanctity' of contracts.

      the horse manure still wafts over from that BS by Geithner.

      Remember the candidate who famously said

      "we may not get it right. But I promise that if we see it going wrong we'll change course"

      Well I'm still waiting on that horrible set of Financial appointments, Sumner and Geithner. And don't tell me that trading Geithner off for another Big Bank CEO such as from Chase or Morgan Stanley [new rumors = merry go round] is going to get our Democratic base energized. That is simply more of the same.

      How to get things moving back to the path of our candidate? Here's what former Labor Secr Reich proposes since as Reich notes, the bailout Program's own Inspector General found that Geithner gave away the store

      Reigh insists that our president must fight for a real financial revolution:

      1. our struggling homeowners - insist that Congress "give homeowners the right to go to a bankruptcy judge and have their mortgages modified."
      1. true regulation - demand that the Glass-Steagall Act be resurrected
      1. "before Goldman hands out $17 billion in bonuses, claw back the $13 billion Goldman took from AIG and the rest of us and add it to the pool of money going for mortgage relief."

      Reich is calling for the kind of vision that we thought we had elected. The kind of vision that Paul Volker epitomised - before our President marginalized Volker in favor of the Clinton-era Wall Street capitulationists

      Only true vision can energize Democrats to think that our President has developed a spine.

      We will restore science to its rightful place....We will harness the sun and the winds and the soil .... All this we can do. And all this we will do.

      by puffmeister on Mon Nov 30, 2009 at 03:32:00 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  I agree with you with one exception (4+ / 0-)

        there are lots of people who aren't homeowners. Either they didn't buy because they saw the bubble building or they couldn't buy, either way they need help, too.

        I watched people buy houses that they couldn't afford from the get-go. $300K for some house that would sell for $120K max. Everyone using their home as an ATM and banking on it gaining in value despite the fact that it was already over-valued as it is.

        That said, I don't want to see people out on the street and they need to renegotiate those houses. But, those of us who did the right thing and sat it out sank deeper and deeper in an economy that was artificially juiced. We need help also.

        "Take it back, take it back. Oh no you can't say that. All of my friends are not dead or in jail." John Prine

        by high uintas on Mon Nov 30, 2009 at 04:53:29 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  this is true. Still, I have read that it is tough (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          high uintas

          to draw the line between the many who are losing homes because of lowered household income [job loss, payouts for medical catastrophes] making current monthly mortgage payments - often with new higher post ARM rates - impossible to pay;  versus those
          who made poor choices to begin with.

          The admin view that I recalled seeing - of only allowing recently purchased homes to be renegotiated seems bass ackward; as it may often have been those who were long-time home owners and got bamboozled into new HE loans pushed by unscrupulous banks.

          Such stories - exploding ARMs coupled with medical bills and/or loss of some family income - are legion, as are others, such as where all the closing fees got pushed into the mortgage along with secret pre-payment penalties making refis into lower loans impossible; plus the forced arbitration clauses -  I heard so many horror stories when working on interviews of mortgage holders for Acorn's Natl financial arm, back in summer of 2003 as I recall it was - before the story became sexy.

          ps - here is another idea promoted in [of all things] the pages of the NY Times:

          if Goldman and JPMorgan hand out record bonuses next month — reportedly they’re planning more than $20 billion combined ... it will underscore why, whatever their Wall Street colleagues think of them, they are hated by Main Street.

          As for Geithner:

          The Treasury secretary is a proxy for the real animus, directed at Wall Street... [Goldman-Sach's]$500 million program to help struggling small businesses [and] apologized for the firm’s role in the financial crisis...are chump change compared with the bonuses.

          It infuriated people when Mr. Blankfein, 55, said this month in an interview with The Sunday Times of London, that Goldman Sachs was "doing God’s work."

          This guest columnist from Bloomberg news has a prescription similar to Secretary Reich's:

          Suppose these two smart men, instead of handing out record payouts, decided to only use only one-third of this pot for bonuses, with a disproportionate share going to less-affluent employees. Another third would be invested in small businesses in struggling communities, five- or ten-fold what Goldman announced last week. The final third would be given to charities, like Local Initiatives Support or helping kids of the jobless get swine flu shots.

          We will restore science to its rightful place....We will harness the sun and the winds and the soil .... All this we can do. And all this we will do.

          by puffmeister on Mon Nov 30, 2009 at 05:53:33 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  I'm not making a judgement (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            lotlizard, puffmeister

            I doubt we would ever know why someone got in over their head, every story would be different. But, I put the blame, if blame must be, squarely on the heads of the people who have driven this consumerist society.

            Run money through the people first. It will get back to the banks eventually. Force the issuers of cards and loans to stop charging interest at usury rates and let people get out of the mud.

            "Take it back, take it back. Oh no you can't say that. All of my friends are not dead or in jail." John Prine

            by high uintas on Mon Nov 30, 2009 at 09:08:18 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  Extremely well put: (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              high uintas

              Run money through the people first. It will get back to the banks eventually. Force the issuers of cards and loans to stop charging interest at usury rates and let people get out of the mud.

              better than I could have said it, so just repeated here with my kudos.

              We will restore science to its rightful place....We will harness the sun and the winds and the soil .... All this we can do. And all this we will do.

              by puffmeister on Tue Dec 01, 2009 at 07:55:18 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

    •  I wonder how many people .... (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Shocko from Seattle

      we now find change to be difficult, which most of us would have admitted, had we thought about it

      realized that, or denied any reality associated with such a concept?

      The stopping time of a large ship is huge. The Ship of State is no different. 'Change' does not happen in a few months, especially against deeply burrowed vested interests. The annoucement f change is merely a start. It will take years.

      But it has started. Even if it is hard to discern.

      it tastes like burning...

      by eastvan on Mon Nov 30, 2009 at 03:39:53 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  We need to believe in (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      boofdah, Square Knot

      our ability to change our nation by our HARD WORK!  We cannot wait for the President to make our changes.  We have to let him know we support him and his issues, and we need him to work hard for us or tell us what we need to do to get our Democratic Agenda passed in the congress. Democracy is all about "we the people!"  Sometimes democracy is difficult.  But, if we want to pass it on to future generations, we have to work to maintain it.

      •  cassandra123 change your name (0+ / 0-)

        I think you need to be renamed "Boxer the Horse"

        If I work had and elect Dems all women's health care be forever off the table! Happy Happy!

        •  I do not know what you base this comment on... (0+ / 0-)

          Democrats have legislated into law ALL of the health care solutions in government for every segment of our population, including women.  Medicare, Veteran's care, Medicaid, Childrens' health care, care for the disabled, mental health care; just to name the most obvious types of health care plans.  Maybe, you are listening to the negative voices here at dkos.  By the way, redwagon...I get to decide what name I will use here.  

  •  When are people going to get that in off-year (5+ / 0-)

    elections people always come down hard on the ruling party?

    People here just ignore history and blithely act like this election is somehow unique.

  •  What needs to be done? (33+ / 0-)

    Congress and the President need to do something populist.

    We, the netroots, can't really do shit at this point besides badger our representatives to stop stuffing their purses full of campaign contributions and start doing the people's business.

    •  Exactly !!!! (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      boofdah, allie123

      Soren has a good point, here.

    •  It's an article of faith (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      Amontg contemporary American Democrats and liberals, under the tutelage of Hofstadter, that all populism is fascism, anti-semitism, and xenophobia.  Since the Hofstadterite elitists run every aspect of the Democratic Party and the liberal policy elite, why on earth and how in hell would the Dems ever promote anything authentically populist?

      "99% of the battles and skirmishes that we fought in Afghanistan were won by our side." ~ Marshall Akhromeyev

      by ActivistGuy on Mon Nov 30, 2009 at 03:29:35 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  Health care of jobs. (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      katocat, bkamr

      They've gotta fix one or the other in a very robust manner by the election to have any hope.

      It's a depression. People need something fixed that improves their day-to-day lives.

      And politically, it would prove dems can do something, which is why republicans are obstructing like mad.

      It is curious to see the periodical disuse and perishing of means and machinery, which were introduced with loud laudation a few years or centuries before. -RWE

      by Gravedugger on Mon Nov 30, 2009 at 03:33:52 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  J - O - B - S (0+ / 0-)

        We're not even competitive with Independents right now. But they might respond to some positive jobs news instead of the Defcon 1 freak out from the right.

        I get that HCR is needed, but maybe a jobs bill should have come first. It might have bought some additional capital/pressure for HCR.

    •  yup. i like the idea of an apollo project. (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      let's build the technology and infrastacture we need to gain independence from foreign oil. it's something all americans can rally around, just like a war...except nobody dies.

      Watch political video at Daily Kos TV | Twitter: @jedlewison

      by Jed Lewison on Mon Nov 30, 2009 at 03:42:06 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  For starters (29+ / 0-)

    a GOOD healthcare reform bill.

    Employee Free Choice

    repeal of DADT/DOMA.

    Get us out of Iraq at the very least.


    This is your world These are your people You can live for yourself today Or help build tomorrow for everyone -8.75, -8.00

    by DisNoir36 on Mon Nov 30, 2009 at 03:10:16 PM PST

    •  Amen Ramen to that list ! (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Chi, emsprater
    •  Good health reform, DADT, EFCA, Jobs, seconded (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      I hold extremely little hope that we'll get out of these wars any faster than under Bush, the Dem establishment is pretty hawkish. It's a travesty, but there isn't really a party in this country that isn't embarassed by peace.

      Though there are a lot of things they could do on the domestic front to make life materially better and they just aren't. Tens of thousands more Americans will die from lack of coverage while waiting for the public option to kick in, jobs are hemorrhaging, and now that he's in office, Obama's gotten even more squeamish about support for reproductive health issues and making good on promises to the LGBT community.

      They just really have to do what they said they'd do when they were campaigning. Did they believe that stuff?

  •  Gee, if only there was a way to get (6+ / 0-)

    the base motivated and energized. Oh, wait, that's right. Never mind.

    Fear over tolerance, lies over truth, and hate over love: Maine - Nov. 3rd, 2009

    by Rumarhazzit on Mon Nov 30, 2009 at 03:10:38 PM PST

  •  Sadly I think you are posting this on... (8+ / 0-)

    deaf ears at DKos and with liberals...they have just given up and want to lose congress and the presidency to teach the blue dogs and Democrats a lesson..."don't take us for granted"

    I hope I am wrong...

    Obama - Change I still believe in

    by dvogel001 on Mon Nov 30, 2009 at 03:11:02 PM PST

    •  Yes, bleeding from the right we expect (5+ / 0-)

      but when you're also bleeding from the left, THAT's a hemmorage.

      "The extinction of the human race will come from its inability to EMOTIONALLY comprehend the exponential function." -- Edward Teller

      by lgmcp on Mon Nov 30, 2009 at 03:13:19 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  Well, it's become exceedingly clear the Dems (24+ / 0-)

      will continue to ignore the left because they love corporate money too much and fear verbal abuse from the Right far too much.

      We are fighting against people who should be in a mental ward to move civilization forward.

      by The Dead Man on Mon Nov 30, 2009 at 03:15:36 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Seriously! (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:

        WTF are the Dems in the House and the Senate so fucking afraid of?  Why do they fear the Republicans?  What is with this bi-partisan bullshit?

        We fucking won!  They can suck it for a few years like we did for 8-12 depending on how you count...

    •  This is just going to be one more diary bitching (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      about how the Dems have done nothing; they are all sellouts, blah, blah, blah.

      I'd like to see some constructive ideas discussed, but I doubt that will happen.

      •  plenty of good ideas & they've been SOLD OUT (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        high uintas, keikekaze

        but ... I suppose we should spend another 6 months or 6 years 0r 26 years DISCUSSING how crooked and corrupt the fascists are ...

        cuz doing things is tooooooooo hard!


        Yond Cassius has a lean and hungry look; He thinks too much: such men are dangerous

        by seabos84 on Mon Nov 30, 2009 at 04:03:11 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

    •  Ridiculous (25+ / 0-)

      Liberals voted for Democrats because they promised to do certain things. They lied. What's hard to understand about why that's demoralizing?

      I didn't vote for some crappy, half-buttocked, opt-out, public option that starts in 2014, with private insurance purchase mandates that start immediately.

      I didn't vote to get my reproductive healthcare rights gutted, to have the House add an amendment to the healthcare bill (which was used as an excuse to allow no other amendments) that will end even coverage for medically necessary abortions in situations that don't pose an immediate threat of death. I'm not voting for people who don't think I'm an adult human being with the right to decide what to do with my own body, and I don't give a bleep how squeamish it makes other people.

      Most of all, I didn't donate money that I barely had when I was stone broke to a bunch of candidates who made me all kinds of great promises so they could get to DC and make excuses about how their hands are tied.

      I'm still broke and so's the city I live in, but these sshles bailed out their friends at the banks instead. Screw 'em. If they want people to save their jobs, they need to save ours, they need to do theirs.

      •  Oh come on... (6+ / 0-)

        A little political reality.

        Yes, you didn't vote for all the things you mentioned, but you'd get a giant zero if you insisted on everything.  That is just how politics works.

        Nothing was going to be easy. Nothing was going to be handed to you on a silver platter.

        So, instead of the political reality that does exist, let's all take our ball and go home.

        Great, so the next Congress can have more Republicans-- I'm sure you'll get everything you want from them.

        Yes, the Stupak Amendment sucks giant moose balls and it should be stripped.  My bet is it does get stripped out in the end.  

        I can not believe the amount of people here will to just give up and let the lunatic right take everything back.

        Or, does the left just like being out of power so they can bitch about everything?


        "Sick Around the World"

        Watch it, send it along to all you know.

        by oxfdblue on Mon Nov 30, 2009 at 03:25:04 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Do you really think this argument is with me? (19+ / 0-)

          Look at the poll numbers. That's not a poll of liberal bloggers, it's a poll of voters, most of whom have never heard of this site or anyone who comes here aside from maybe some of the politicians who use the diaries.

          You can scrum with me all day long, all night, too, and it'll mean bugger all to the actual voters out there who believed the campaign promises and thought that the people making them were actually going to fight for those things. The voters aren't listening to us, they're looking at the people they voted for, who aren't doing what they said they'd do. All those bastiches campaigned on healthcare, all the presidential candidates had universal health care plans, and the congressional race messaging was big, big, big on it. So did they believe in the value of what they told us, or didn't they?

          And don't make excuses for these pols. Don't give me that. 'Oh, politicians are always lying sacks.' Fine. Now explain to me why I should vote for them? That's a great use of my valuable time and money, sure it is.

          These Democrats lied. To. Voters. Lied. They can get it together and try to do what they said they would, or face the inevitable consequence of trying to get repeat business after a bait-and-switch.

        •  Nothing was going to be easy. (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          redwagon, emsprater, keikekaze


          However, we were lead to believe that we had a president who would at least put up a fight. If he had, those numbers would be different.

          Where would you say Obama has fought entrenched interests?

        •  Don't shoot the messenger-The voters feel cheated (9+ / 0-)

          The poll numbers don't lie, the constant interviews I conduct with voters don't lie.  

          The people are angry at "Bait and Switch".

          The constant refrain I hear in my polling interviews is:
          "Wall Street Bankers stole my retirement, my college fund, my downpayment."

          Geithner has alligned himself with Wall Street (naturally), and he is going to drag the Democratic ticket down with him.

          It's really that simple-- people have a sense that a basic crime robbed them of their wealth.  They are blaming the folks ( especially lil' Timmy Geithner) that signed off on the larceny.

          Until Democrats wake up and realize that Wall Street is laughing all the way to bank and letting Obama take the fall, the poll numbers are going to get worse.

          Don't argue with me, when it comes to money people count their pennies first, and they know where the money went.

          •  Every person I talked into supporting Obama (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Jim J, lotlizard, Square Knot

            has stopped supporting him. Those who were Dems to start with will probably remain Dems, but they could give a shit about getting out there and voting.

            The independents are gone. They confuse the bail out with the stimulus and think that Obama is screwing them. I can try to get them to see what's actually happening, but I lose them quickly. All it takes is the add on of HCR and they are backing away.

            We need to learn how to message, we are crap at it.

            "Take it back, take it back. Oh no you can't say that. All of my friends are not dead or in jail." John Prine

            by high uintas on Mon Nov 30, 2009 at 05:15:45 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

      •  Actually all I voted for is... (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:

        something better than GWB's replacement JSM...and that scary Palin character...

        Obama - Change I still believe in

        by dvogel001 on Mon Nov 30, 2009 at 03:31:54 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  insurance mandates that start immediately (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        redwagon, Cat Nerd

        Actually, they don't, but then again, neither do the fucking insurance reforms:

        White House health reform czar Nancy-Ann DeParle said the president was moving as quickly as possible. She said that the insurance industry cannot be forced to accept people irrespective of preexisting conditions until everyone is required to have insurance, and that the administration does not want such a requirement until the exchanges are up and running.

        So, for 2010 and likely 2012, not a goddamned thing will be different in healthcare. (Oh, rates will be higher. Sorry.)

        •  Not true... (0+ / 0-)

          within 90 days of enactment...there will be high-risk pools setup (or earlier if practical) that will allow those with pre-existing conditions and otherwise uninusurable access to insurance they can get/resume treatments for their ailments...

          That is huge and life and death for millions of people...

          Obama - Change I still believe in

          by dvogel001 on Tue Dec 01, 2009 at 02:13:58 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

    •  Of course you're wrong. (5+ / 0-)

      Nobody on the left WANTS Obama to fail.  We sure as hell want to win every upcoming election from now until the end of time.  But that can't happen unless the goddamned incumbent administration actually DOES SOMETHING that's worth our votes.  I don't just mean the left's votes--I mean ANYBODY's votes.

      "Americans are a wonderful people: They will always do the right thing--after exhausting every other possible alternative."--Winston Churchill

      by keikekaze on Mon Nov 30, 2009 at 03:27:06 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  You know that ... (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      your assumptions are wrong.

      Anyway, how does one actually stop being taken for granted?  They STOP bieng a patsy.

      The progressives and left of center liberals are speaking out in order to call attention to how they have been taken for granted.

      The Democratic leadership is in a position to change that.  All they have to do is produce, cough up some of that change we were promised in 2008.  Stop trying to placate the masses by claiming to be 'a little better' than the GOP.  It doesn't work.

      In honor of the Obama Administration's actions on GLBT issues during Pride month, Pride 2009 is proclaimed "Back of the Bus Pride Month".!

      by emsprater on Mon Nov 30, 2009 at 05:59:25 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Get a strong health care bill passed, end the war (21+ / 0-)
    In Iraq and tell Republicans to go sit in a corner and cry all they want about socialism.
  •  Work on reforming mainscream media n/t (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    Dream, that's the thing to do (Johnny Mercer)

    by plankbob on Mon Nov 30, 2009 at 03:11:36 PM PST

  •  I'd like to see a different posting (7+ / 0-)

    For those who claim to be voters, what is the percentage of likely voters?  That way, if there is a 2-1 margin of Democrats to Republicans, there may still be more Dems voting than Repubs, despite the enthusiasm gap.  I think that's a more realistic way to show it, though it may take more explaining and crunching of numbers.  I also think it would be nice to break down regions or states, but I'm going to let you numerologists do that.

    •  you can get the raw #s here (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      one thing that is important to realize is that we weight our samples. i'll let the polling people explain that better, but it means you can't look at our poll and say "well X% are democrats." the poll holds those kinds of things constant, but you can say: "of democrats, X% think..."

      the poll also includes non-voters and 3rd party folks.

      Watch political video at Daily Kos TV | Twitter: @jedlewison

      by Jed Lewison on Mon Nov 30, 2009 at 03:46:20 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Thanks. I'll play with the numbers a bit (0+ / 0-)

        and maybe post something later on.

      •  why don't you guys add a question to the poll (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:

        asking those who say no, why do they not plan on voting?

        If we had data on why people are not 'enthused' (as defined by plan to vote or not), we might have a better way of assessing what might be done to change their minds.

        Maybe some live in places where there are no good dem opponents running to vote for. For them, we could try to find good candidates to step up and run.

        Maybe they don't plan on voting because they don't know anything about and are not interested in politics at that level. In that case, we could focus on educating them or helping good Dem candidates to get their message out. Campaigns have not even started yet. Will anyone challenge McCain in AZ next year? I hope so! And if someone does, my enthusiasm will shoot up considerably. If not... and Giffords is not in danger of losing her seat, then maybe I won't care enough to bother voting. But this has nothing whatsoever to do with Obama or current Dems in congress, and there is literally nothing that anyone could do (or not do) that would change my feelings.

        What this is looking like, though, it this poll is being used as yet another way for disillusioned Kossacks to say to each other "See? The Dems are terrible!" and I really do not see how that helps at all.

  •  things have to happen (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    wishingwell, lgmcp, OhioNatureMom

    sounds like the house is passing bills, but it is awful quiet from the WH and from the Senate. And we kinda need all three to start reading from the same page.

  •  Easy. Vote? Get pie. (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Hannibal, bkamr, chikindolfin

    You're welcome.

    You couldn't load a pistol with dormitive virtue and shoot it into a breakfast-roll - CS Pierce

    by Mr Raymond Luxury Yacht on Mon Nov 30, 2009 at 03:11:54 PM PST

  •  Radical idea: ask the 40% why they aren't voting (20+ / 0-)

    I mean, we can speculate to our heart's content, but how about we put our ideas to the test by asking follow-up questions to the 40% of Democrats who say they're not likely to vote:

    Ie, "If Congress passes and President Obama signs health care reform that does X, would that make you less likely to vote, more likely to vote, or no change?"

    Same for a jobs bill and for different potential Afghanistan options (although it might be too late for that to make a difference).  

  •  Let's start easy.... (16+ / 0-)

    We can change this by nicely asking the Democratic leadership to stop kicking liberals in the fucking teeth...

  •  Democrats need to start acting like (21+ / 0-)

    democrats.  They need to do something about the foreclosures and stop coming up with stupid ideas like shaming the banks will work.  That is just insulting. They need to pass a hcr bill with PO.  They are almost as bad as the republicans.  

  •  You know who can change these numbers? (19+ / 0-)

    Senate Democrats, that's who.

    "The great lie of democracy, its essential paradox, is that democracy is first to be sacrificed when its security is at risk." --Ian McDonald

    by Geenius at Wrok on Mon Nov 30, 2009 at 03:13:11 PM PST

  •  The Afghanistan buildup isn't going (6+ / 0-)

    to help matters.  I think to counteract that, to counteract midterm election malaise, and to counteract the Republican hate-driven frenzy, we have to force jobs/HCR/financial regulation legislation that takes effect immediately after passage from our timid representatives. I don't know how to get a fire lit under these people.

    Sometimes I wonder whether the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on or by imbeciles who really mean it. --Mark Twain

    by SottoVoce on Mon Nov 30, 2009 at 03:13:54 PM PST

  •  We won't (6+ / 0-)

    A year ago, many of us on the left were laughing and gloating and calling the Republicans the modern-day Whig party. They're on their way out! Nobody wants to be a Republican anymore! It's a regional rump party! It'll only compete in the south! Democratic dominance for a generation!

    It was fun, I'll admit, especially after hearing the same doom and gloom about the future of the Democratic Party for most of Bush's term. Unfortunately, way too many people believed their own hype. The process is NEVER finished. Like it or not, we're a binary system. We have two parties, and when things suck, the other party gets voted in. When things continue to suck, that party loses.

    We're going to have trouble next year. I don't know that we'll lose either the House or the Senate, but we're going to lose a lot of seats. And we're going to lose some governorships. And the Republicans will laugh and gloat that they're back, baby! And so on ... and so on.

    There's little left to do but wring our hands, send money to the good guys, and hope for the best.

    •  Uhm, the fact that they are on the way out is (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      wishingwell, CS in AZ

      the reason why their graph is higher.

      You got a smaller number of partisan deluded Republicans.

      •  Wishful thinking (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Jim J, wishingwell

        But that's not so, I'm afraid. What, do you think everybody will just decide to join up with Democrats? Sure, today's hard-core Republican fringe is an extra special brand of kooky. But the party--as a structure, as an organization, as a ballot line, as another choice--will persist and attract more people in opposition to whoever is in power. And they'll keep changing what they believe in. The party is here to stay.

        •  That could be true.. (0+ / 0-)

          But they will need to moderate their positions. Some gubernatorial candidates already do (see VT, CT, RI etc). Eventually they will at the Presidential level but first they have to have their equivalent of Mondale and Dukakis; people who can only do well in the base regions. I think they will need to try and fail with a conservative push before they realize that to be a moderate minority party and elect their equivalent of a  Eisenhower or Clinton

          Sure, today's hard-core Republican fringe is an extra special brand of kooky. But the party--as a structure, as an organization, as a ballot line, as another choice--will persist and attract more people in opposition to whoever is in power. And they'll keep changing what they believe in. The party is here to stay.

          •  I've always lived in deep red (0+ / 0-)

            parts of blue (Pennsylvania) or sometimes-blue (Ohio) states, and I know that the rural dominance of the Republican Party is not going away. Don't get me wrong--I want the reactionary, bigoted, socially conservative mindset of Republicans to go away. Maybe it will; maybe it won't. But the rural folk I've known my whole life will not be turning Democratic for at least the next couple generations.

            Large-scale rural dominance will keep the Republican Party viable for some time. All it takes is a very small swing overall for either party to cruise to a great electoral victory.

            •  I think you are missing the point... (0+ / 0-)

              There simply aren't enough rural voters for a party to be strong nationally without suburban and urban voters in large numbers. My point is that with the youth voting Democratic by a 2:1 margin (and perhaps more in the next election, the polls show Republican support falling among the youth!) this will move the center of the electorate. The folks who were previously the center will no longer matter. The Republicans can do what they want to win them, succeed and still lose the election!

              Remember that Obama won those under 30 by 32 points while winning those over 30 by only 1 point! The youth turned it from a squeaker into an electoral landslide. That's just the start of much more from that generation as they get older, larger and move into their peak voting years!

      •  My concern is the Independents who are former (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:

        Republicans who left the party but actually still Independents who lean to the right nore than left.

    •  I would still stand by the argument (0+ / 0-)

      that the Republicans are fading away. Even if they make some gains in the midterms, it will be a short term battle of the bulge style victory. They are loosing the war! The demographic tidal wave will eventually swamp any gains the Republicans make in the short term.

      Further, could we please stop insulting Whig party by mentioning them in the same sentence as the modern day Republicans!

      A year ago, many of us on the left were laughing and gloating and calling the Republicans the modern-day Whig party. They're on their way out! Nobody wants to be a Republican anymore! It's a regional rump party! It'll only compete in the south! Democratic dominance for a generation!

      •  Please stop insulting (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        scotths, Jed Lewison

        the modern day by mentioning it in the same sentence as Republicans! :)

      •  Agreed but the Independent moderates and (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:

        conservatives tend to be growing. There seem to be a helluva lot self identified Independents who are anti Obama and anti Democrats. They seem discontent no matter who is President and who is in the majority. These folks will vote for whomever is not in power and damn, their numbers are growing.

        I maintain that there is a group of ex Republicans who are independents and some are the Lou Dobbs bunch.  They are still quite conservative. And I have met a few New Independents who are Republicans but after Bush, they did not want to put up with the ridicule of friends and coworkers so they registerd Independent. They did not want to identify with the weaker party.

        There are those people who want to be with the popular crowd and might have voted for Obama but refuse to be Democrats and are easily drawn back to vote for Repubs  as well as Democrats.

  •  Obama and the blue dogs need principles (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Dagoril, ZackB

    That's a start.

    Don't donate to the DSCC in 2010 - they'll give your money to Harry Reid. Donate to the candidates instead!

    by arcticshadow on Mon Nov 30, 2009 at 03:14:07 PM PST

  •  When Democrats vote, Democrats win (8+ / 0-)

    It's as simple as that. It's the reason why there's a Democrat in the WH today.

    There's a part of me that wonders why this is still such a problem when it's been a known fact for fifty years.

    ". . there will be a temptation . . to try to appear constructive, or at least responsible. My advice . . resist the temptation." - W. Kristol

    by thenekkidtruth on Mon Nov 30, 2009 at 03:14:22 PM PST

    •  Because... (8+ / 0-)

      Democrats can be like little children.

      They want everything immediately.  (And don't flame me about how it's taken 100 years to get to this point on health care and we've already waited...)

      When they don't get everything overnight, they go home and pout and then can't understand out the morons on the other side won again.

      People here can scream and yell and criticize the President and the Democratic party from now until next November, but NOT vote for them?  

      Are you kidding?

      No matter how much any of us disagrees with the President and the party, we ABSOLUTELY MUST vote next year for Democratic candidates.

      Otherwise, our faces will look pretty stupid without our noses.


      "Sick Around the World"

      Watch it, send it along to all you know.

      by oxfdblue on Mon Nov 30, 2009 at 03:28:11 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  and when the moderate and liberal Indies vote for (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      the Democrats as more and more Independents are emerging in every state.

  •  It's not the citizens' job (25+ / 0-)

    to be enthusiastic about politicians, it's the politicians' job to elicit enthusiasm from the citizens.  If they are failing to do so, politicians need to look in the mirror, not blame the citizens.  As Brecht satirically said of the East German government in 1953:  "The people have lost the confidence of the government, it is time for the government to elect a new people."

    "99% of the battles and skirmishes that we fought in Afghanistan were won by our side." ~ Marshall Akhromeyev

    by ActivistGuy on Mon Nov 30, 2009 at 03:14:23 PM PST

  •  Maybe progressive bloggers (7+ / 0-)

    can help change these numbers by highlighting the Obama administration's progressive accomplishments.

    Nathan Newman at TPMcafe makes the case:

    •  Grab a mop! (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      boofdah, msdrown, CuriousBoston

      Why don't we start by supporting President Obama, his administration, and his agenda?

      Maybe the first thing we should do is imagine where we would be if John McCain and Sarah Palin were in charge (or some other candidates with an (R) behind their name).  

      How about we stop bashing President Obama because he hasn't provided instant gratification for all of our wants and needs. It will take more than 10 months to clean up the wreckage of the Bush administration.  

      How about we start appreciating the fact that we have a president who has rolled up his sleeves and is actually trying to govern and make a difference.

      How about we focus on Congress and especially the Blue Dog Democrats who are really Republicans in sheeps clothing.  You try to get anything done with this bunch. And don't get me started with Lieberman.

      Meanwhile, the president is getting slammed from the right and the left.  I'm not saying he has done everything perfectly, or that he can not be criticized.  But by the volume of negative posts on dailykos it is really disheartening.  

      Maybe all of the disappointed bloggers can vote for someone else in 2012. According to many, President Obama is a total failure. And he hasn't demonstrated any change we can believe in.  Perhaps candidates like Ralph Nader, or Denis Kucinich will be just what the doctor ordered in 2012.  I am sure they will be more effective at satisfying the liberal/progressive base.    

      "No one in America should go broke because they get sick". President Barack Obama - New York Times op-ed 08/16/09

      by Ladyhawk on Mon Nov 30, 2009 at 03:39:05 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  If the economy has improved (15+ / 0-)

    by the 2010 election,we will be alright. If not,we will be in deep trouble. Its as simple as that. As Carville said"Its the economy,stupid".

  •  remind them of what 8 years of Bush was like. (4+ / 0-)

    All of the things that current crop of republicans advocate would be worse than Bush.

    Patriotism consists not in waving the flag, but in striving that our country shall be righteous as well as strong. ~James Bryce

    by california keefer on Mon Nov 30, 2009 at 03:15:23 PM PST

  •  But how big is the GOP? (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Harkov311, boofdah, Nailbanger, Plubius

    Isn't the party of crazy shrinking like mad?

  •  Meh (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    madgranny, Clarknt67

    The Republicans are frothing.

  •  Bar graph scaling (4+ / 0-)

    Would it be possible to do another version of this graph that is scaled to show the estimated number of Democrats, Independents, and Republicans? I'd like to see how much of the entire voting population is represented by 81% of Republicans, 56% of Democrats, etc.

    Of course I know we have lots of work to do - I just want to see what the actual size of these bar graphs are.

  •  FIND BIN LADEN!! (5+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    boofdah, Hannibal, msdrown, jabuhrer, Plubius

    That will change the score

  •  Conservatives have always (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    boofdah, etoipi, oxfdblue, OhioNatureMom

    been more enthusiastic than liberals, haven't they?  Isn't that why, in a country where so few of us self-identify as conservative, we still have competitive races?  Our success in 2008 was due to increased liberal enthusiasm combined with decreased conservative enthusiams, no?

    No politician ever lost an election by underestimating the intelligence of the American public. PT Barnum, paraphrased...

    by jarhead5536 on Mon Nov 30, 2009 at 03:17:47 PM PST

  •  Four ideas to increase Democratic (15+ / 0-)


    1. Democrats in office (WH/Congress) need to throw some red meat to the base - climate change, health care, jobs bill focused on youth and inner city jobs, immigration.
    1. Progressives need to get a grip on the constant and overwhelming negativity that they are showing towards Democrats in Congress. They are furthering the idea that Obama/Congress have done nothing this year, which isn't true.
    1. Pass health care reform as soon as possible. This stretched out legislating is killing us.
    1. Start airing ads in January focused on what the Democrats have done so far this year. Update these ads monthly through election time. The MSM and the blogs have done an awful job of reporting on Democratic accomplishments. The DNC/OFA is going have to do this without the media/bloggers help.
    •  And they need to start painting the GOP... (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      boofdah, ItsSimpleSimon

      The reason Republicans are so fired up is because they absolutely believe that they have to do everything in their power to stop "the socialist Obama agenda."

      Republicans have spent the past year throwing out the red meat to the base calling Obama a "racist," demanding investigations of "anti-American, socialist" members of Congress and refusing to even talk with Democratic leadership.

      Use quotes from Bachmann, Beck and Limbaugh and use them to paint the party. Remind all of those core Democratic constituencies of what is at risk if they stay home. If the GOP can scare its base into action, why can't the Democrats?

    •  1 and 3 would solve 2. (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      redux, boofdah, lotlizard, dclawyer06

      The entire reason so many progressives are overwhelmingly negative is that they're not getting thrown anywhere near as much as is getting thrown to the republicans.

      Give people a reason to want to vote for you and they will.

      Don't blame voters for politicians who make promises and then don't even try to keep them.

      I don't know if Bernie Sanders is up for re-election in 2010, but if he is, he'll breeze to victory.  Because he fights for what he says he will.

      Those who labour in the earth are the chosen people of God. - Thomas Jefferson

      by Ezekial 23 20 on Mon Nov 30, 2009 at 04:05:16 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  Glad to have you on board! (0+ / 0-)

      Democrats in office (WH/Congress) need to throw some red meat to the base - climate change, health care, jobs bill focused on youth and inner city jobs, immigration

      Ordell Robbie: Is that what I think it is? Jackie Brown: What do you think it is?

      by dclawyer06 on Mon Nov 30, 2009 at 04:22:46 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Repeating something from the other diary (5+ / 0-)

    There's no need to think the sky is falling as of yet. The party in power tends to be late in rallying support, and I don't think Democrats are "demoralized" to use a word others are using.

    I think we're still in the "post-election" let-down period, kind of like a sports team winning a big game then having to come back and play again the next week.

    We've got a year, so there's plenty of time. If you're involved in your local and state Democratic parties, start rousing your local and state committees now, so you'll be prepared in the months to come. Mid-terms are about the base, and with all the voter registration Democrats have done over the past couple of years (remember?) then we'll do just fine.

    Things are going well, all things considered. Start accentuating the positive, and stop doing the all-too-typical liberal thing and pissing and moaning about everything that hasn't gone exactly as planned yet.

    More 'go' less 'woe'...

    •  agreed there is time to fix it (0+ / 0-)

      however i don't share your view that things are going well. they are certainly going not as bad as they were. but we're not growing jobs yet and we've still got at least 6 more weeks of HCR debate ahead of us.

      under normal times, i'd say the achievements of the administration would be great singificant, but these aren't normal times. we're in a really tough spot as a nation, the toughest of my lifetime (i'm 36), since we've got no choice but to grade things on a curve, i'm not ready to hand out any A's.

      Watch political video at Daily Kos TV | Twitter: @jedlewison

      by Jed Lewison on Mon Nov 30, 2009 at 03:55:03 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  House Speaker Michele Bachmann. (12+ / 0-)

    If that doesn't inspire you to get out and vote, nothing will.

    Once in a while you get shown the light, in the strangest of places if you look at it right.

    by darthstar on Mon Nov 30, 2009 at 03:18:31 PM PST

  •  progressive (non-DC) democrats need to re-group (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Geenius at Wrok, Hannibal, madgranny

    and plan to primary every one of these faux democrats.  The hand-writing is on the wall for the general election, and the DC Dems who currently rule the party don't want to hear about these bad numbers.

  •  Now, I think there's defnitely a big problem (0+ / 0-)

    with Democratic base motivation, but a lot of this is going to depend on the financing and quality of Democratic campaigns (although macro factors are obviously hugely important a la 2006).

    Methinks perhaps there's just a tad too much hand wringing over one poll.

  •  I sent an idea to the DNC last night (3+ / 0-)

    Have Democrats sign a pact saying that they won't take any money from corporate interests or PACs. Of course, the idea that even one-third of these Corporate Dems would do any such thing is laughable, but it would show that Democrats are going to get serious about working for the people again.

  •  Organize, (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Orinoco, madgranny, Eric0125, Jed Lewison

    carry the message out to the precincts.  A lot HAS been accomplished.  But health care, jobs, and Afghanistan are not solvable by snapping your fingers.  The president doesn't legislate.  There were never 60 solid votes in the Senate for the public option.  We're going to get some focus on jobs in the next few months, but even here, the Senate is going to be an obstacle.  And Afghanistan is a monumental clusterf&*k that was botched in 2002.  I'm hoping that along with this temporary escalation there will be clear guidelines and goals for getting out.  

    Life is good. Injustice? Not so much.

    by westyny on Mon Nov 30, 2009 at 03:20:03 PM PST

    •  yeah, one thing i've noticed is that sometimes... (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      ...this descends into the "is obama cool" or "is obama uncool" thing, and the reality is that we've got three democratic power centers: house, senate, and presidency. obama isn't dictator, and part of that means that other spots in leadership have responsibility. and that also means that criticism of obama isn't necessarily that big a deal because it's not like he's dictator. there's no magic bullets -- it'll take improvements on all sides.

      Watch political video at Daily Kos TV | Twitter: @jedlewison

      by Jed Lewison on Mon Nov 30, 2009 at 03:57:42 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  I seem to recall... (13+ / 0-)

     ...this thing about "change". I remember hearing that word a lot last year during the election. I remember the public responding somehwat positively to it, to the point of handing Barack Obama and the Democrats a somewhat significant victory.

      Here's a wild idea. How about actually performing some of that "change"?

      You never know. It might work.


    "Le ciel est bleu, l'enfer est rouge."

    by Buzzer on Mon Nov 30, 2009 at 03:20:23 PM PST

    •  Seems too risky to me! (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Alumbrados, Buzzer, madgranny, jabuhrer

      The GOP will be mad at us!

      Don't donate to the DSCC in 2010 - they'll give your money to Harry Reid. Donate to the candidates instead!

      by arcticshadow on Mon Nov 30, 2009 at 03:21:33 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  He Is. (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Jed Lewison

      Congress isn't.  Obama is not magic.  He's not superman.  He cannot just wave his hands and make guys like Lieberman and Nelson suddenly stop being douchebags.

      •  Of course he can do stuff (4+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Jim J, Alumbrados, barath, lotlizard

         A few subtle hints at base closures, that sort of thing. There are a million ways he can make life exceedingly uncomfortable for the Douchebag Caucus.

         Obama's never been shy about going through Rahm to level threats at the progressives, after all.

         Afghanistan is now his baby. He can choose to shut down that quagmire if he wants to. He apparently has chosen to dig deeper.

          Stuff like DADT... that's in the executive-order category. He's punted on that one (to be charitable).

          He snuffed out any hope for "change" when he appointed Rahm to be his COS. He could have appointed someone who, you know, actually believes in "change". He instead went with a corporatist status-quo tool. Ben Nelson didn't make that decision for him.

         Obama's not Superman. But he hasn't even been Clark Kent.

        "Le ciel est bleu, l'enfer est rouge."

        by Buzzer on Mon Nov 30, 2009 at 03:39:24 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

  •  What needs to be done is . . . (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    catfood, NearlyNormal

    . . . the White House needs to figure out who votes Democratic and what this administration was elected to do.  THEN it needs to get HCR passed with a robust public option from day one; invest serious money into job creation; and get out of Iraq and Afghanistan.  Nationwide Democratic congressional victories will then follow as flowers follow spring rains.  Otherwise, not so much.

    "Americans are a wonderful people: They will always do the right thing--after exhausting every other possible alternative."--Winston Churchill

    by keikekaze on Mon Nov 30, 2009 at 03:20:45 PM PST

  •  Easy -- Break up the mega-banks (9+ / 0-)

    The actions of the Fed and Treasury paying multi-billions to Wall Street has demoralized the country.

    Obama must discipline the casino capitalists.

    Pandering to Geithner's Wall Street only reinforces the perception that the Democrats are craven and corrupt.

    This dynamic has to change before Democrats get any traction what-so-ever.

    It pains me to state the obvious, but this disenchantment is abundantly clear when I talk to the "man on the street".

    You can not argue or jawbone your way out of the perception that Geithner has sold out the country, you must do something concrete.

    Reinstate Glass-Segall, regulate derivatives, tax the obscene bonuses, break-up the "too big too fail".  

    These are simple prescriptions, but sometimes the simple is more powerful than 2000 pages of gobble-de-gook.

    Ignore the mood of the country at your electoral peril.

  •  go negative now (5+ / 0-)

    Scare tactics. Black and white ads. Bush / Cheney. Soup kitchens. Gun toting morans with Obama covered in swastikas. Tea Baggers. Sarah Palin. Obama's not going to fix everything in the next 12 months like in the movies. But the right are dangerously naive and will take away your remaining jobs, reinstate slavery and start a war just because they can. Obama and the Democrats are trying to fix a mess caused by eight years of Jack Abrahmov and George Bushes deregulation and TARP. A referendum on Obama is a referendum on whether or not middle America has a voice - they want you to shut up so they can cut taxes again on their fat cat friends. The Democrats are the voice of the silent majority against the billboards calling for revolution and racists shouting 'You lie' in the halls of Congress.

    Get nasty now and stay nasty. It's a knife fight so bring a revolver and shoot first.

    If you didn't like the news today, go out and make some of your own.

    by jgnyc on Mon Nov 30, 2009 at 03:21:06 PM PST

    •  This too (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      oxfdblue, jgnyc

      People are not moved by logic. Fight dirty, throw the GOP's crap right back at them. Use hyperbole and lies just like them.

      Don't donate to the DSCC in 2010 - they'll give your money to Harry Reid. Donate to the candidates instead!

      by arcticshadow on Mon Nov 30, 2009 at 03:22:38 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  i think you wait on that kind of stuff until oct (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      askew, jgnyc

      you can move people then. maybe an add or two over summer.

      but now you gotta' motivate the core base with positive stuff, IMO.

      Watch political video at Daily Kos TV | Twitter: @jedlewison

      by Jed Lewison on Mon Nov 30, 2009 at 03:59:17 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  respectfully disagree (0+ / 0-)

        I don't think there's going to be much positive stuff for anyone but us hardcore. Health care getting passed will be good, but jobs are going to be bad bad bad, and will health care have an unspinable positive effect on the lives of the middle and lower class voters who are as of now sitting on their hands? I of course hope I'm wrong, but I'd like to get out of the gate with the boogey man quickly. We don't want to go back to the present, and it was failed REPUBLICAN policies that got us there. GWB was President on 9/11 = that can't happen again. Their only policy is tax breaks for Jack Abrahmov.

        I also hope Obama and Rahm, who seem pretty damn smart, have a plan, but anyone can run against Wall St in 2010 and change the subject whatever the topic with a (black and white) picture of Obama with Gehtner and Summers. We've got to get out in front of that and hope Dick Cheney keeps making an ass of himself.

        If you didn't like the news today, go out and make some of your own.

        by jgnyc on Mon Nov 30, 2009 at 04:47:27 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

  •  It's also easier to vote against (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    madgranny, Greasy Grant

    Than to vote for.  Republican voters know what they don't want, and will vote accordingly.

    Think about it.  As gifted a politician as Obama is, he was helped by the fact that the Bush administration was so unpopular that any Republican running was going to have to deal with that.  Not wanting more of the same got people out to vote as much as Obama's skill as a campaigner.

    Procrastination: Hard work often pays off after time, but laziness always pays off now.

    by Linnaeus on Mon Nov 30, 2009 at 03:21:33 PM PST

  •  Democrats need to act for Americans... (5+ / 0-)

    not the republicons in the House and Senate.  And end the wars.  Republicons have it right when they accuse demos of being spineless on everything because demos always prove them right.  Even when handed an outstanding majority all around.

    Never walk into a public restroom while breathing through your mouth.

    by quityurkidding on Mon Nov 30, 2009 at 03:21:45 PM PST

  •  Give Dems a reason to come out and vote (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Orinoco, chuck412

    and that requires two things

    1. Show the good things (from a Dem perspective) that happen when Dems are in charge.  This requires a good (from a Dem perspective) health care bill being passed.  It also requires taking the fight to Wall Street types with real regulation reform and the end of too big to fail (and some nice clawbacks of those bailout moneys, especially from Goldman Sachs); doing this will deflate in a small measure some of the populist anger being used by the teapartiers on the right and just as importantly, because the Reps big thing these days is oppose, oppose, oppose, wouldn't it be nice to see all those Rep No votes for legislation that goes at Wall Street?  Next, show a real WP jobs program being put into place and some real focus on cap and trade and green jobs.
    1. Show HOW BAD THINGS WILL GET IF REPUBLICANS ARE IN CHARGE!  This will require message discipline (get all those Dem talking heads on the tv shows saying the same despicable things about Reps in charge, please) and more importantly an ad blitz posing questions and offering uncomfortable answers (again from a Dem perspective) of what Reps in charge would look like.
  •  What else is new? (5+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    askew, lirtydies, citizenx, Cat Nerd, kat68

    This is what always frustrates me about Democrats--if things aren't absolutely perfect, our side will sit home.

    Republicans never sit home.  They always vote, and will vote for an empty paper bag with an "R" on it, if that's all they have (which is how Pete Sessions keeps getting elected).

    If anybody knows how to get Democrats excited, let me know and I'll pass it along.

    Change TX-32, Change the Nation. Send Democrat Grier Raggio to Congress.

    by CoolOnion on Mon Nov 30, 2009 at 03:22:53 PM PST

    •  Republicans sat home (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      CoolOnion, Jed Lewison

      Republicans sat home in 2008 because they weren't happy voting for the "liberal" John McCain, who would continue Bush, Jr.'s "liberal" policies, like amnesty for illegal aliens, campaign finance reform and other things right-wingers seem to hate.

      There was a massive enthusiasm gap between liberals and conservatives in 2008.

      •  yup. and that's why the picked the nutcase palin (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:

        they presented it as a "win puma" thing but they couldn't have been that stupid. (well maybe.)

        really what they were doing was trying to energize the nutjobs. it worked for a while, and if palin wasn't such a complete dolt and the bush economy wasn't so bad (in short, if mccain actually had a chance) it might have worked.

        Watch political video at Daily Kos TV | Twitter: @jedlewison

        by Jed Lewison on Mon Nov 30, 2009 at 04:00:59 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  If not for Palin, we would have won TX-32 (0+ / 0-)

          Following the McCain nomination, the right-wing nutjobs in my gerrymandered district were totally demoralized.  From combing through the Republican blogs, I was hopeful that they'd actually stay home, and we'd send Eric Roberson to Congress.

          But when he picked Sarah Palin, the mood changed overnight; with those base voters suddenly rallying around that idiot, I figured it would translate into another win for Pete Sessions.

          I still think of that--if McCain had picked someone else, Eric Roberson would be in Congress right now.

          Change TX-32, Change the Nation. Send Democrat Grier Raggio to Congress.

          by CoolOnion on Tue Dec 01, 2009 at 06:50:55 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

  •  The rest of Obama's legislative agenda. (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    Everything is backlogged behind health care, and once that is disposed of - however that might happen - we're going to see a flood of the policies and reforms Obama and the Democrats campaigned on in 2008 and 2008.

    Remember February-June?  The debates over the ARRA, and the budget?  That was when SNL was making fun of the Republicans in Congress.  Imagine the political landscape with Congressional Democrats and the White House standing up and passing financial regulation, a green jobs bill, reforms in the military, upper-income tax hikes coupled with middle- and lower-income cuts, immigration reform, yadda yadda yadda.

    Remember what fools the Republicans, especially Eric Cantor, make of themselves during legislative fights?  Remember that pamphlet-thing they put out as their alternate budget document?

    The Democrats pass something called HCR (or maybe, Health Insurance Reform), and whatever you think of that bill, they move onto a broad legislative agenda that highlights the philosophical differences between the two parties.

    You want some motivated Democratic voters?  Let's let the House Republican Caucus talk about immigration for a few months.

    Art is the handmaid of human good.

    by joe from Lowell on Mon Nov 30, 2009 at 03:23:14 PM PST

  •  But what's the magnitude of each party? (0+ / 0-)

    Are there more Dems than Republicans? I keep hearing anectodal accounts that the Republican party is losing members. Is that true?

    Yes, we definitely have a problem on our side, but percentages alone don't mean squat.

  •  I think we should slam Obama at every turn (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    Oh wait -- we already do that.  Seems to be working, though.  Right?   I mean, 'Republicans aren't the problem,' as so many here like to say.  After all, 100 percent of the GOP carrying water for corporate America is one thing, but I'll be damned if I'm gonna stand by while 5 percent of Congressional Democrats do it!!!  

    Stay home and throw the bums out!

    Andrew Mellon & GOP: 'In a Depression, assets return to their rightful owners'

    by Tuffie on Mon Nov 30, 2009 at 03:23:56 PM PST

  •  You can win every election for the next century (8+ / 0-)

    if you start treating the American people like you treat the American banks.

    "With all the wit of a stunned trout, prodigal stumbled clumsily into the midst of a discussion . . . " -- droogie6655321

    by prodigal on Mon Nov 30, 2009 at 03:24:38 PM PST

  •  Democratic Party (0+ / 0-)

    Stop pretending like the strategy of electing "progressive" Democrats is a solution to the overwhelming set of problems that we face: financial crisis, Afghanistan and Pakistan, Iraq (still), global warming, laughable rationales for a totally dysfunctional foreign policy, military spending, a corrupt Congress and their supporters, and so on and so forth.

  •  You wanna know the freaking problem? (20+ / 0-)

    I'll tell you the freaking problem.  

    When Democrats are in the minority, the Republicans kick them around, insult them, and talk over them. And the Dems stand there like they got kicked in the crotch.

    When Democrats are in the majority, the Republicans kick them around, insult them, and talk over them. And the Dems stand there like they got kicked in the crotch.

    When Democrats have a large majority, the Republicans kick them around, insult them, and talk over them. And the Dems stand there like they got kicked in the crotch.

    So, no matter what I do, the Dems stand there like they got kicked in the crotch.  Explain to me why we should believe one fucking word out of the Congress or the White House.

    And don't try "the Republicans are fascists" route.  I know that, but the Dems are their enablers.

    Give me a reason to vote FOR the Dems rather than against the Republicans.

    -7.88, -6.72. "Wherever law ends, tyranny begins."--John Locke

    by caseynm on Mon Nov 30, 2009 at 03:25:07 PM PST

    •  Not to mention both parties (4+ / 0-)

      Bow to the same corporate masters.

      Don't donate to the DSCC in 2010 - they'll give your money to Harry Reid. Donate to the candidates instead!

      by arcticshadow on Mon Nov 30, 2009 at 03:29:41 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  Exactly. (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Jim J, environmentalist

      If the best they can do is act like second class citizens with their hands tied behind their backs when they have a filibuster proof super majority, why should they expect anyone to rally around them?

      Yes, we all know that as bad as Dems are, Republicans are a million times worse. But what more can we give the Dems? We gave them a President and huge majorities in both houses of congress, and they gave us one shrug after another. Sure, we'll get back out in the streets and make sure they keep those majorities...but really...what is it going to take? 65 Senators? 100? Do they really need a super mandate in order to do what they can statistically do now?

      Yeah, the handful of Blue Dogs suck. And so do spotlight loving traitors like Lieberman. But shouldn't a strong leadership be able to keep them in line better than we have?

      I know the instinct is to say that this kind of talk is exactly what the GOP wants, but who has allowed this to happen? If the Dem leadership was putting forth half the effort of your average Obama volunteer on the ground (who are mostly working for free in their spare time) then right now we'd be talking about a majority lasting for the foreseeable future.

      This stinks.

      If "Don't Tread on Me" means "Don't fix health care," then please...tread on me.

      by jabuhrer on Mon Nov 30, 2009 at 03:40:00 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Elected Dems: get some balls & get shit done (4+ / 0-)

    Or else, why would anyone vote for them? They're going to reap what they've sown, and the whole country will suffer.

    If "Don't Tread on Me" means "Don't fix health care," then please...tread on me.

    by jabuhrer on Mon Nov 30, 2009 at 03:25:23 PM PST

  •  Pass a health bill with a strong public option (4+ / 0-)

    pass a bill that allows for direct job creation, climate change, and so on.

    I work full-time with the FDL team on health reform thanks to your donations.

    by slinkerwink on Mon Nov 30, 2009 at 03:26:49 PM PST

  •  Answer: (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    bruh1, Cat Nerd, arcticshadow

    There's still time to change course, but it's not going to be easy. So here's the question: what do you think needs to be done?

    Jobs.  It's really that simple.  Oh, and having a congress and administration that actually acted like Democrats would help as well.

    "We may have to sacrifice two more jobs to get millions more for Americans." Peter DeFazio

    by cybrestrike on Mon Nov 30, 2009 at 03:27:07 PM PST

  •  Have you looked at these numbers by region? (0+ / 0-)


    Lets say I live in Arkansas.  I would not be excited about voting for someone like Blanche Lincoln.  She moves to the far to the right as possible chasing tea-bagger voters (who arn't voting for her anyway), while ignoring democratic voters like me.  Forget voting for her, I'll probably stay home.  Even if I do vote, I might leave the senate race blank.

    If I were living in Oregon, for example, I would be much more excited about voting for Ron Wyden.

    P.S.  Harry Reid, give us a good health care bill (use reconciliation already), and not some crappy triggered co-ops.

  •  "It's the jobs, stupid." (0+ / 0-)

    People want Democrats out more than they want them in. Democrats have their turn at bat and have two strikes on them.

  •  Dem solidarity needs to be done (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    lirtydies, bkamr, kat68, jabuhrer

    We need to stop raking the President over the coals every chance we get and creating an air of negativity because he's not concentrating on our issue du jour or because stuff is taking too long. It's all doom and gloom around here and other places like HuffPo. You must realize that the biggest roadblock to these things is a few recalcitrant senators, not Obama. At the end of the day, Obama is the executive. He signs bills. There's not much he can do but bloviate from on high, unless the houses of congress get their stuff together and send him things to sign.

    This is a midterm, after all, and at the end of the day people will be voting for congresspeople, not presidents. We have to remind congressmen and senators that standing in the way of "change we can believe in" is what's gonna keep democrats out of polling station lines.

    Closing Gitmo, ending DADT/DOMA, leaving Iraq and Afghanistan (Afghanistan especially), HCR, creating jobs, etc. etc. etc. They're not done yet, but that doesn't mean they won't get done eventually. What will happen if we lose 2010 is that NONE of that will happen.

    And I think that's another thing everyone around here, and voting dems in general, need to remember: You may not be plenty happy with congress or the president right now, but if you don't get out there and vote for dems, it will be a WHOOOLE lot worse.

  •  Maybe try and get a message out (0+ / 0-)

    that just because everything hasn't gone to your liking you're going to be an asshole big baby, sit home and pout, really no better than a god-damned conservative in that regard?

    I doubt that'll work, either.  But don't forget, if you don't vote, you don't have much business bitching.

  •  What needs to be done? (0+ / 0-)

    We need a Democrat in the White House.

    "I happen to be a proponent of a single payer health care program." Pres. Goldman Sachs Obama, 6/30/03

    by formernadervoter on Mon Nov 30, 2009 at 03:28:21 PM PST

  •  Let's start by putting somebody/anybody on trial (5+ / 0-)

    ...from Bush/Cheney/Office of Legal Counsel, doesn't ANYBODY have to pay for the outrage that was 2001-2008???  Release of photos, disbarment, trials, Blackwater, KBR, etc etc.

    To date we are STILL funding Blackwater/Xe, still using Goon Squads in Iraq and Afghanistan, still allowing the military to boss the CIC around, still allowing Wall St to boss the CIC around, it all looks actually quite pathetic.

    Doesn't SOMEBODY have to go on trial??  Weren't there crimes?  I don't believe I am confused here....

    Let's take care of the past so we can go forward.

  •  Frog marches of financial execs (0+ / 0-)

    A debt jubilee.

    Single payer HC.

    Massive jobs program.

    But since none are forthcoming, I'm not optimistic.

    They are unanimous in their hate for me--and I welcome their hatred.

    by bdtlaw on Mon Nov 30, 2009 at 03:30:15 PM PST

  •  Screw Bipartisanship and Pick a Fight (6+ / 0-)

    "The individual mandate is 'just one part of the bill' - its not worth losing everything else in the bill just to get it through." BruceMcF

    by irmaly on Mon Nov 30, 2009 at 03:30:41 PM PST

  •  How come this bit of news is interpreted (4+ / 0-)

    as a problem Democratic voters need to solve?  Why isn't this problem being presented as something the
    Dems facing reelection need to address?  You know, by finding out why their base is apathetic and disillusioned and acting to change that?

  •  It's a direct reflection (5+ / 0-)

    on the lack of backbone the Democrats have shown. Even modest HCR proposals have difficulty getting through committee. Real financial reform has yet to get off the drawing board. And why aren't we pulling troops out of Iraq, much less finding a way to peace in Afghanistan?
     All the reasons why the Democrats got elected. No wonder the base is depressed.

    "The people have only as much liberty as they have the intelligence to want & the courage to take." - Emma Goldman

    by gjohnsit on Mon Nov 30, 2009 at 03:31:43 PM PST

  •  Democrats have to make Obama the new Bush (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    Seperate Obama from the rest of the party and have individual candidates blasting him for not getting healthcare done as well as increasing troops in Afghanistan and run ads saying that if Republicans take control, they will work with Obama to cut Social Security.  I think that this is our only way out of this and it just might work.  

  •  Kain or Able? (0+ / 0-)

    Clearly the Obamas-in-the-know have not chosen Able.  Who is the DNC Chair, anyway?  While Howard Dean held the post, I received issue- and candidate-focused email notifications almost daily.  Since January, I have received fewer than 5 from the DNC.  This tactic, and every other component of the 50-state strategy got people involved and conveyed a sense of urgency to Democratic voters.  The appointment of Kaine certainly represents a turn away from the Dean strategy--which was opposed by the newly empowered Rahm Emanuel and Chuck Schumer--and toward the stale and ineffective, top-down approach that got Bush elected.  Forget Kain.  I want Able.

    'My country, right or wrong' is a thing no patriot would ever think of saying except in a desperate case. It is like saying 'My mother, drunk or sober.'

    by godmatic on Mon Nov 30, 2009 at 03:32:05 PM PST

  •  Go Liberal, Appeal to the Base (5+ / 0-)

    Seriously, one BIG REASON Obama gained traction so quickly was his opposition to the Iraq War.  This appealed to a lot of the Democratic electorate.  He was the "anti-war" candidate.

    Unfortunately, Democrats don't realize their base is more liberal than the average bear.  Republicans, on the other hand, do realize their base is bat-shit crazy teabagging lovin' crazies and makes sure they stay excited and get out and vote.

    The election strategy is pretty simple, even though most Americans agree with Democratic ideas - universal health care, raising minimum wage, etc. - the fact is most Americans rarely get out and vote.

    The die hard faithful of each party are the ones, who vote and this goes doubly for a non-Presidential election.

    I seriously wonder what the point is of electing Democrats, when all they do is at best provide stop-gap "centrist solutions" to problems and otherwise fight amongst themselves.

    If voters become dissatisfied with Democrats, they will turn to the only other option: Republicans.

    Opposition to Bush, Jr. fueled a large part of the turn out for Democrats in 2006 and 2008.  So far, the Democrats haven't given us anything to get enthusiastic about.  Their "centrist" approach is the worst of every possible world, neither taking bold action to solve problems nor getting people excited to keep pushing for major, much needed, reforms.

  •  I'd be curious to see (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    wishingwell, JDoorjam

    how the enthusiasm translates if moderate R's are Scozzafava'd. Will the enthusiasm in primaries translate to generals? And will Independents lose enthusiasm as the teabaggers get more pumped up?


  •  this poll is not a surprise (3+ / 0-)

    But it is probably a bottom.  The problem is all Washington's...America itself doesn't seem to matter much to huge swaths of Congress, Republican or Democrat.  I have heard people in Washington talk about most Dems being resigned to losing 40 House seats.  The only thing keeping that from a self-fulfilling prophecy is the Republican knack for self-annihilation via scandal.

    We need to do something daring, like get out of Iraq or put more thirtysomethings into jobs and homes they own.

    "Hibernate between 45 and 65 if you can."--VS Pritchett

    by joseph on Mon Nov 30, 2009 at 03:33:09 PM PST

  •  How about stop (4+ / 0-)

    trying to play patty cake with Republicans.  Our elected Democratic lawmakers should be fighting for the liberal platform!  That is what they were elected for!  Why they don't understand that is beyond me.  

  •  Yes, I will vote (0+ / 0-)

    But without some SIGNIFICANT changes in what the current administration is doing, I'm not sure at all that I'll be voting Democrat.

  •  Can this be narrowed down somewhat? (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    wishingwell, bkamr, Jed Lewison

    I live in Lynn Woolsey's district, and so it doesn't matter whether I go to the polls (though I will anyway).

    Meanwhile, plenty of fired-up teabaggers are going to go enthusiastically vote for Inhofe et. al who would have won anyway.

    I'm not trying to downplay these numbers -- they're really sucky and we absolutely need to turn them around.  BUT I would like to see how these look in swing districts.  O, Kos polling gods, can some polling be done specifically to, say, PVI +/- 5 districts?

  •  Democrats need to repudiate their bribers (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    cybrestrike, Ezekial 23 20

    and stand strongly and unequivocally for the average person's interest. They have to completely bury the "They're all the same" meme.

    Anything less will fail. The people are not stupid, no matter what the Centrist Dems and Dem Leadership think.

    Until we break the corporate virtual monopoly on what we hear and see, we keep losing, don't matter what we do.

    by Jim P on Mon Nov 30, 2009 at 03:35:31 PM PST

  •  Primary all blue dogs up re-election. (5+ / 0-)

    Get those inbred Republicans out of our caucus.

  •  Maybe you should ask people (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    wishingwell, Mr MadAsHell

    who say they aren't going to vote what would motivate them to vote. Actual data beats the hell out of a bunch of bloggers bloviating banally.

    Having said that, it is now my turn for banal bloviation:

    Obama ran on a message of hope and change. Hope can be satisfied by improvement in the economy, such as will result from a jobs bill. Change can be satisfied by passing any of a number of bills, such as Health Care, that matter to the base.

    Changing the "business as usual" tone on Capitol Hill would also satisfy the drive for change. Since there is no hope that the GOP will help us, the only thing we can do is clean our own house. In other words, sacrificing Murtha and Schumer, and their fund raising abilities, may be key to giving people a sense of real change.

    In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice; but in practice, there always is a difference. - Yogi Berra

    by blue aardvark on Mon Nov 30, 2009 at 03:36:35 PM PST

  •  The best way to close the enthusiasm gap... (7+ / 0-)

    is to yell at the base of the party.
    Call them names.
    Red-bait them.
    Compare them to the town-hall screamers.
    Dismiss any and all of their criticisms.


    Ordell Robbie: Is that what I think it is? Jackie Brown: What do you think it is?

    by dclawyer06 on Mon Nov 30, 2009 at 03:36:40 PM PST

    •  said as much to some obamaphilles recently (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Ezekial 23 20

      that they have the most ass backwards ideas for how to address peo they need to come out to vote.

    •  That said they demographic that shows the least (0+ / 0-)

      likelihood of voting, but which voted in record numbers in 2008, is the under 30 group. The real issue I see is how to energize them again.

      "The fact which the politician faces is merely that there is less honor among thieves than was supposed, and not the fact that they are thieves." Thoreau

      by shigeru on Mon Nov 30, 2009 at 03:50:00 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  It surprises me the number of people (15+ / 0-)

    who are ready to give up just because we aren't getting everything we want right away.  We just had 8 years of Republican rule, and not only were our issues not addressed, they were ridiculed.

    The Republicans would be more than happy to take over again, and I know that isn't something that any of us want.  I guess I would say that we need to keep up the pressure on the folks we do have, and then make sure that we vote so that the Republicans don't get another shot at ruining the country.

  •  The Congressional Democrats need to get to (3+ / 0-)

    work by enacting the platform they campaigned with and for. It will energize the base and bring everyone including many Independents home.

    "The greatest thing you'll ever do is learn to love and be loved in return"

    by Liberalindependent28 on Mon Nov 30, 2009 at 03:43:06 PM PST

  •  new brand (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    I suggest progressives start working now toward a takeover of the Democratic party that would result in a successful challenge to Obama in 2012.

    We can't hope to win with a third party, because of the duopoly and the campaign financing Rahm controls. But we can hope to chase Blue Dogs into a third party, and get our hands on that party money ourselves. And we can also hope that the fragmentation of the Republicans will aid in the shakeup.

    The most important thing is to develop a new political brand, explicitly anti-war and populist, that can plausibly be presented to all the disillusioned (both Obama voters and Beck listeners). The "Democratic" brand may or may not be salvageable after Obama. It must be explained that the majority of the Democratic party still believe in the old values, despite Obama's betrayal and the collaborations of the Blue Dogs.

  •  better grassroots organizing, starting now... (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    boofdah, Mike Peterson

    ...this trend of progressives and liberals failing to turn out in sufficient numbers has been the achilles heel of the Democratic Party and the progressive movement for some time. It is why radical right wing extremists were able to take over our government in the first place, because they know that complacency is a chronic Democratic problem. What has resulted is that the right wing extremists have been over-represented in our government for far too long.

    If we are ever going to bring about a true political realignment in this country, it will require us to be able to turn out our key constituents in EVERY election, not just every now and then.

    Part of the problem is that progressives have a tendency of waiting until two months before and election to begin organizing themselves.

    We need to set up a national progressive organizational infrastructure that can be mobilized throughout the year to help pressure Congress and the White House and so that fall campaigns can start by "hitting the ground running."

    Far too often, Democrats and their allies start the process of refining their get out the vote efforts two months out. There's a lot that can be done much sooner than that, organizationally, so that campaigns aren't wasting their time updating voters lists at the last minute.

  •  I think we should stop complaining here (3+ / 0-)

    get off our asses and start doing some REAL protesting, like marches, on Washington.  And stop complaining so much and start running for office or supporting those candidates we are aligned with.

    Basically, I think we need to Grab a Mop and stop complaining and start working.

    A person can only make so many calls and send so many emails.  It is time to hit the streets people.

    •  By golly that's it! (0+ / 0-)

      All we need is a 3 word sound bite tag, and we're saved!

      Who the hell needs politicians to actually do their jobs when instead we can pretend that it's the voters fault that they're not?

      Those who labour in the earth are the chosen people of God. - Thomas Jefferson

      by Ezekial 23 20 on Mon Nov 30, 2009 at 04:12:35 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  The Dems need to stop running away from the left (8+ / 0-)

    We elected Democrats to change the right wing policies that have been in DC for decades and we got excited because Obama promised that change. Now we see that he is somewhere to the right of Bill Clinton and even defending and extending some of Bush's most abominable policies. Mr. Obama and the Democrats in congress need to be much more progressive because the fact is that voting for the lesser of two evils doesn't make it anymore. People like Rahm Emanuel don't seem able to grasp that.

  •  Fear seems to energize Republicans much more than (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    wishingwell, Jerry056

    Dems. Probably because they are much more easily scared than us, and because Republican politicians are much more eager to exploit fear than Dems. As we've seen over the past nine years, the Republicans can mass-produce fear whether they're in power or not. It's hard to sell logic like FDR did, when the media finds fear to be much more profitable.

    I think, therefore I am not a Republican.

    by Mike Peterson on Mon Nov 30, 2009 at 03:45:49 PM PST

  •  Obama hasn't solved all the problems in (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    wishingwell, chuck412

    10 months.  And he isn't going to do it in 2 years either.  He'll need 4, minimum.

    Staying home in 2010 will not give him the opportunity to have 4 years.

    The Democratic message machine is phucked up.  Maybe this is partially Obama's fault, maybe not, but it's not just one man.  But there needs to be much more messaging to the public about the deep problems we have, the fact that solutions aren't going to gel overnight ("Rome wasn't built in a day"), and the 8 years of garbage we're digging ourselves out from under.  All this without revisiting Carter's "malaise."

    The messaging needs to be constant and consistent, hopeful and aggressive.  And it needs to start, like, yesterday.

    The most violent element in society is ignorance.

    by Mr MadAsHell on Mon Nov 30, 2009 at 03:47:51 PM PST

  •  Remember Bush! (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Mike Peterson

         Vote Democrat!

    Free University and Health Care for all, now. -8.88, -7.13

    by SoCalHobbit on Mon Nov 30, 2009 at 03:48:40 PM PST

  •  Simple suggestion: a distributed solution (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    Each of us should make 5 calls a day to congress, the senate, and the white house.  (Spread it around - don't call the same office twice in a row.)  Tell them what you're thinking for 2-3 minutes.  That's 10-15 minutes a day.

    They need to hear what we're thinking.  Discussion on dkos or any other site never gets us anywhere.

    (I programmed my senators, etc. into my phone - all of their office branches, not just their DC one - so that I can call when I'm walking anywhere.)

    •  I should add... (0+ / 0-)

      If you do call a congressperson (or senator) who doesn't represent you (and I'm not suggesting you do, because it may be counterproductive), try not to give that away.  (If they ask for your zipcode or address, just say that you don't give out information over the phone as a rule.)

  •  Stand up to Republicans (4+ / 0-)

    I want the administration to show me that if I stand up to Republicans and vote for Democrats, that they'll do the same and stand up to Republicans.

    This new administration is already bought off by corporate America.

    Stand for something, you asshole leaders. Show me you actually have the balls to flex your muscle.


    That's how you'll get me to vote in 2010.

    Calling out lenders who don't help mortgage owners? What the flying f*ck is that going to do? This is capitalism, not kindergarten. Crack their skulls!

    God damnit I'm pissed at the Obama Administration. He better have one hell of a speech tomorrow night.

  •  Urge Progressive Alternative... (0+ / 0-) Obama. Convince prominent progressive to "mull" presidential bid. Beating Obama is probably impossible, but perhaps this could cause him to shift leftward. Wishful thinking, I know.

  •  Not undermine this president from day one (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    askew, kitebro, citizenx

    Would have been a good start. Too late for that now.

    "Nothing, not even the Nobel Peace Prize, can set the bar any higher for President Obama than he's already set it for himself". - Eugene Robinson.

    by blackwaterdog on Mon Nov 30, 2009 at 03:54:12 PM PST

  •  I known many here do not belong to your local (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    wishingwell, boofdah, Tailspinterry

    Democratic Committee.  

    If you want to change this alarming poll, if you want more control of "better democrats" than JOIN YOUR LOCAL COMMITTEE.

    Many committees are reorganizing right about now -
    The way to change something is from the inside out!

    Takin it to the streets....Doobie Brothers

    by totallynext on Mon Nov 30, 2009 at 03:54:20 PM PST

  •  If we can't get more Dems, get better ones. (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    boofdah, Ezekial 23 20

    What I plan on doing for the rest of this legislation cycle is exactly what I've been doing since the inaguration.  I'm calling my congressional delegation and letting them know that I support strong progressive legislation.  

    But if the Dems in Congress want to make it so only the really committed progressives show up to the polls then we have a golden opportunity to get rid of a fair amount of the jackasses that make our caucus so weak kneed.  

    But as far as reving up the base... not much I can do about that.  Their political fates are their in their own hands.

    "If you can find money to kill people, you can find money to help people." -Tony Benn (-6.38,-6.36)

    by The Rational Hatter on Mon Nov 30, 2009 at 03:55:03 PM PST

  •  40% Democrats won't vote (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    wishingwell, boofdah

    What makes it worse is, every ten years redistricting takes place and who does the redistricting plays a big role in who controls Congress. If Democratic Governors get wiped out (like they did in NJ and Virginia) because the voters decide that Obama doesn't keep his promises so why vote, the Democratic Party could be headed for a wipe-out for a decade.

    "An endorsement by the president is a tremendous boost," Mr. Specter said. "He’s the captain of the team."

    Democratic governors can be more helpful for a White House than Democrats in Congress. Governors have control over state government and party organizations and tend to build up a network of contributors and supporters. And with redistricting under way across the country next year, the control of statehouses is more critical.

    "President Obama is not only president of the country, but head of the Democratic Party," said Doug Sosnik, who worked as a White House political director for President Bill Clinton. "The outcome of governor’s races in 2010 will have a huge impact on political power in the country for the next decade."

    Bipartinship means "Yes we can! As long as the Republicans agree to let us."

    by William Domingo on Mon Nov 30, 2009 at 03:55:12 PM PST

  •  Politicians need to do their jobs? (0+ / 0-)

    You can't make voters enthusiastic for people they think are wimping out.

    You either do the job you were elected to do, and pass solid Democratic legislation, or the voters lose their enthusiasm for you.

    There's nothing 'we' can do to change those numbers.

    The politicians have to serve the voters, or they lose.  It's pretty darn simple.  The Republicans who replace them will likely get voted out in a term too, as voters keep 'shooting the horse' until they get a horse that will jump the hurdle.

    Those who labour in the earth are the chosen people of God. - Thomas Jefferson

    by Ezekial 23 20 on Mon Nov 30, 2009 at 03:55:26 PM PST

  •  If Obama,Harry& Pelosi STOPPED Stu-Pid-Paking ALL (0+ / 0-)

    they get their sell out hands on ...

    ah, nevermind.


    Yond Cassius has a lean and hungry look; He thinks too much: such men are dangerous

    by seabos84 on Mon Nov 30, 2009 at 03:56:22 PM PST

  •  This blog can't get its shit together Jed (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    askew, The Red Pen, NuttyProf

    how do you expect us to unite the party?

    You know what would be nice? A little direction and input from the people who run this place.

    This place is in the middle of tearing itself apart and the people that run it are silent.

  •  So back to the original question (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    What are the solutions?

  •  What to do now? (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    boofdah, exMnLiberal, Square Knot


    Thanks for asking the question.  I was just about to put up a diary on the same theme. Here's my suggested course of action for President Obama-

    First, he should get his staff (and maybe Kos and a few other smart bloggers) in a room and make a list of all the actions the President could take that don't require Congressional approval.  Perhaps 10 or 20 items where Obama could pick up a pen and sign an executive order.  Then call a press conference, announce the actions, and make himself look like a decisive leader.  The actions need not be earth-shaking.  The most important thing is that Obama needs to present himself as someone who is serious about turning the nation in a new direction.  Even those who don't agree with his policy choices will reluctantly appreciate a display of backbone.  He could close Guantanamo, he could repeal DADT, he could get tough with Wall St., etc.  Taking some clear and specific steps would energize the base.  It would also enrage the Right, but who cares--   they are going to oppose Obama at every step of the way anyhow.  

    Second, the President needs to start telling the story of the good things he is already doing.  There are structural changes and rules modifications taking place within the various federal agencies which will have some positive long-term effects, but these are not well-covered by the media, and they need some light shined on them.  There's an old saying in public relations-- "if you don't tell your own story, then somebody else is going to tell it for you."  That is exactly what is going on right now, and it's a failure of Obama's communications team.

    Third, Obama should re-connect with the huge base that he and David Plouffe built during the campaign.  That's an enormous reservoir of talent and energy that has been left untended and squandered, and many of them are now frustrated and disillusioned.

    Fourth, Obama should inject himself vigorously into the healthcare debate and advocate for a progressive bill, instead of laying back and watching Max Baucus and Joe Lieberman and Rahm Emmanuel and Mary Landrieu and Olympia Snowe and Ben Nelson mangle the issue.

    There's my prescription for Change.  If Obama doesn't act soon, he is toast-- and so are we.

    Regulate banks, not bedrooms

    by Eagleye on Mon Nov 30, 2009 at 04:03:19 PM PST

  •  Well, primarying the stooge Dems would (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    tmo, redux, tbird, Ezekial 23 20

    excite, well, me.  

    I gave money I didn't have and walked mile upon mile in Hamilton County, Ohio ... across the river.  I'd do it again to go after Mean Jean.  How about we do some targeted selection on races where we can get excited and have a chance (e.g. Grayson) and start doing some real organizing for those Dems.  

    Let the corporatists swing for awhile without us.  They just might notice (in June) that no one has their left flank.  Then, the discussion might begin.

    Meanwhile, we'd be getting excited and rallied behind some blue to orange efforts.

    Oh, hey, isn't that kind of what we are about here at Kos?

    Why do I think Russian Roulette whenever they start talking triggers with the Public Option?

    by bkamr on Mon Nov 30, 2009 at 04:04:35 PM PST

    •  And why in the name of little green apples (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      do we never get a real challenger for Boehner?  His protest candidates who don't even campaign always pull down a solid 36% or so of the vote.  Dems should put forward a real candidate and throw some money at OH-08.  Think of the loss of face if they lose their House minority leader.

      Those who labour in the earth are the chosen people of God. - Thomas Jefferson

      by Ezekial 23 20 on Mon Nov 30, 2009 at 04:16:27 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Until democrats are DEMOCRATS (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Ezekial 23 20
    these numbers aren't going to change.  We voted for change, didn't get any so why vote this time?  That's the attitude I have.  I will vote, though, because I've done so in every election.  Others who think the same, though, might not.
    •  Maybe more effort needs to go into (0+ / 0-)

      reminding people of all the change that has occurred under this President with this Congress. We outlawed torture. We now have fair pay for women. We have passed hate crimes legislation, extended GI bill benefits to post 9/11 veterans, reversed the ban on stem cell research.  We expanded health coverage to 4 million middle class kids and slashed drug prices for seniors by 80 billion dollars. We have protected thousands of miles of rivers trails and parks. We secured EPA authority to limit pollution, boosted fuel economy standards, recognize climate change as a real threat to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness and achieved progress on nuclear nonproliferation. This is just some of the change, and it's early.

  •  HEALTH CARE (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Ezekial 23 20
    ... that's what needs to get done.
  •  Of course I'll vote. I always do. (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    boofdah, Sil

    I'll vote for whomever seems to be the most progressive.

    But the donating, phone-banking and pavement-pounding I did the last two elections is not a given. If Democrats won't work for me, then I won't work for them.

  •  Healthcare done this week, jobs jobs jobs (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Ezekial 23 20

    Just read a Yahoo! article saying health care would take weeks longer.


    It has already taken months too long.  We can't let Harry Reid continue to dilly dally the party's future away.  He needs to be canned as quickly as possible.

    Fire Reid, finish health care with a strong public option, fire Bernanke, Geithner, Summers, and do nothing but jobs jobs jobs for ordinary Americans until the economy has fully recovered.

  •  Just one question: (0+ / 0-)

    What's all this "we" this and "we" that bullshit? Is everybody here a goddamn corporatist tool?

    •  Because WE are all in this together. (0+ / 0-)

      ...and if WE don't take some serious action to change the way things are going, then the true corporatists are going to take action for us, and WE aren't going to like the results.

      "They say we take the Christ out of Christmas, but I swear they take the Christ out of Christian." - joynow on dK

      by boofdah on Mon Nov 30, 2009 at 06:39:53 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  What do I think needs to be done? (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Ezekial 23 20

    Well, for starters, Obama could use an executive order to halt enforcement of DADT until he can make the time to officially repeal it. He could lean heavily on the blue dogs to support a strong EFCA and the soon-to-be-neutered Consumer Protection Agency. He could fire Geithner and appoint someone at Treasury who isn't part of the Wall Street revolving door crowd. He could say that he will close down the prisons at Guantanamo Bay and Bagram and have them transferred into the US and give them actual civil trials to help shed some light on the abuses of the Bush Adminstration...

    ...and as long as I'm dreaming, I would really like a PS3 with copies of Uncharted 2 and Valkyria Chronicles. Considering that all we'll most likely be getting up to the midterms is window dressing on the status quo, the PS3 will at least help distract me from raging at it all. Give me that, and I will totally vote for whatever "Lesser Evil" you want.

  •  Look at Granny's (0+ / 0-)

    recommended post from the other day and you'll get a great idea of what needs to be done.  Obama and the congressional dems have let us down big time.

    I know many here will jump all over me for this but honestly, I dont personally see much of a difference between the GOP and the Dems.  Sure, there are a few things that keep me voting Dem but the difference is pretty small.

    Unless there is a big change, I'll probably bluster about not voting thru 2010 then tepidly go out and vote Dem on election day.  But if there's a line to vote I probaby wont stand in line very long.

    I have written an incredible book and YOU should buy it!

    by environmentalist on Mon Nov 30, 2009 at 04:12:18 PM PST

  •  Unfortunately (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Jim J

    Unfortunately there's not much that WE can do.

    People aren't motivated because they voted for "Change They Can Believe In", and got nothing much for their time. Why bother to get Democrats into power, if once in power, they themselves work to oppose the Democratic Agenda?

    I'm not even motivated at this point. I can only imagine how people feel who aren't politically obsessed.

    If the Dems start behaving like they give a crap about our agenda, the numbers will get better and people will turn out and vote. Otherwise, it will likely be a bloodbath. And they'll deserve it.

  •  Two steps to get on track (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    1. Remind the voters that the Republicans represent the status quo that they hate so much. Whether its financial reform, health care reform, campaign reform,  or environmental reform, it's the Republicans who are standing against change and with the monied interests that have been ripping us, polluting our environment and bankrupting our country.It's easy for the GOPers to complain and they're very good at it, but when it boils down to reality that won't do doo to change the status quo and they will not stand up for working America (or those Americans who can't find work).
    1. Pass the president's agenda. Democrats need to show the country that they can effectively govern and enact change. Lawmakers - AND THAT INCLUDES YOU, CONSERVADEMS - need to compromise and stop arguing over every detail. Get shit done and people will respect you.
  •  Control the Banks! (0+ / 0-)

    The Banks, by their reckless behavior got us into this mess. What has resulted is a credit crisis that has banks receiving money from us at 0% and charging the consumer upwards of 30% for the same money.  

    In short the Republican Bankers are making it impossible for the consumer to pay down their debt that they were encouraged to run up.

    There's still time to change course, but it's not going to be easy. So here's the question: what do you think needs to be done?


    Convince the Fed that the discount rate for any bank that charges more than 10% for past unsecured credit card debt may not borrow at 0% but rather at 9%.  

    what happened when the banks got bailed out is that they figured out another way to rape the consumer and pad their pockets at the same time.  This Depression will not go away until a good portion of consumer debt is paid off, either through accelerated payments to principal or through bankruptcy.  

    Changing the Fed Discount rate is the fastest way to get the banks to participate in the recovery versus the banks prolonging the crisis to get their Republican friends back into office.  

    A) It's fast because the Fed can just make an announcement and give the banks 30 days to comply or the banks can stop using the Fed discount window for cheap credit.

    B) I'm a Bernanke fan to an extent, His PhD thesis was on the causes of the Great Depression.  The contortions he went through to prop up the market in the years before 2008 show that he saw it coming.  What I think he hasn't foreseen is that the banks would turn around and use their political pressure to find another avenue to keep the economy in the gutter for political gains.  

    C) Think of the collective sigh of relief from society should something like this pass overnight.  Banks won't be happy, but they have a choice not to participate at the Discount Window.  

    D) Would it work?  Is it practical?  I don't know, but I think a sudden monetary shift would be the type of positive pull that the economy needs much like the bankruptcy of Lehman Bros. (Sept '08) was the trigger that pushed the economy over the cliff.  

    ... the watchword of true patriotism: "Our country - when right to be kept right; when wrong to be put right." - Carl Schurz; Oct. 17, 1899

    by NevDem on Mon Nov 30, 2009 at 04:22:15 PM PST

  •  Raise the specter of Impeachment (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    I think the activist base needs to do this, not only because I think it would work, but because it would be unseemly for the DNC to do it directly.  Start reminding people of the last time we had a Democratic President and a Congress run by Republican fanatics.  Show the average voter pictures of teabagger protests with racist anti-Obama signs. Show them the kinds of things Republicans in Congress are saying about Obama (death panels, birtherism, etc.) and remind them of the Clinton divisive and ugly it was. How nothing got done.  How many millions were spent investigating the Clintons.

    I especially like this approach because it has the virtue of being true.  Obama WILL be impeached by the House if it goes Republican.

    •  Impeached for what? (0+ / 0-)

      "They say we take the Christ out of Christmas, but I swear they take the Christ out of Christian." - joynow on dK

      by boofdah on Mon Nov 30, 2009 at 06:41:23 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  It's so funny that you think they'd need a reason (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:

        The big problem with the Clinton impeachment is that it lowered the bar so low that the next time they can do it practically on a whim.  I mean, assuming the Senate is still Democratic there's no chance of a conviction anyway, so it makes no difference if the charges are flimsy or not.  The Republicans will immediately begin swamping the Administration with investigations and as soon as they find out he jaywalked once in Chicago...bang.

  •  I'm late to the thread but FWIW (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    increasingly hositle rhetoric from the left, promoted in part by DKos has led to these disturbing numbers.

  •  Democrats are getting the numbers they deserve (0+ / 0-)

    if they want different numbers, let them work for them.  They've worked the entire year to appease the losers of the last election and the blue dog democrats who are just barely democrats.

    Screw them.  If they are unhappy with their polling numbers, (and I doubt they give a rats ass) then they have no one to blame but themselves.  

  •  Obama is trying to be like Lincoln (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    boofdah, arcticshadow

    and while that's commendable it's not the time. Losses in 2010 will be Obama's fault.
    I don't think he relized what a big deal it is that he was a black man who was elected POTUS. He could have done anything IMO. But he chose bipartrisanship with scumbags.

    unUnited States of America

    by plok on Mon Nov 30, 2009 at 04:26:29 PM PST

  •  This has very little to do with Obama or (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    askew, scott5js

    his policies.  These numbers have everything to do with the fact that Democrats in general are never as organized or motivated an electorate as the Republicans. And right now the Republicans are united in pure hatred of Obama.  The only reason Dems did so well in 06 was because they and Independents were united in their hatred of Bush.  And that hatred combined with mass enthusiasm for Obama in 08 resulted in more Democratic victories.  

    If there is any Dem malaise to speak of, it's due to the Blue Dogs/Traitors in Congress that are determined to obstruct progress of any kind.

    But the facts wont stop people on the left who already dislike Obama as much as the Teabaggers from blaming him for Dem apathy and everything else.  The only thing I hate more than Teabagger crap is the constant smearing of Obama from the so-called left.



  •  What should we do about it? (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    scott5js, boofdah

    Well, we could stop with all the defeatist rhetoric from the left for a start. Why would the electorate turn out for us if they see us fighting like this after we WON?

    "When two Republicans want to hurt a Democrat, what do they do? They compare him to another Republican. It's crazy." - Radio host Bill Press

    by eclecticbrotha on Mon Nov 30, 2009 at 04:36:05 PM PST

  •  Obama needs to fight the cons here at home (0+ / 0-)

    and get the fuck out of the wars abroad.

  •  Simple: Pander to the Base (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Clarknt67, Vega

    You know, end the war, tax the rich, deliver universal health insurance, a real jobs program, etc...

    That kind of thing.

    That will never in a million years happen.

  •  We dont have to sit in the back of the bus (0+ / 0-)

    In nyc, where I live, the city is 80-90% democratic.  No democratic mayor for 20 years.  Progressive candidates in the most progressive of cities?  Not really.  Does the democratic party, the party of progressive principles, the party without a mayor, care?  Not a wit.  It cares first, foremost and always about the status quo.  It's simple Adam Smith.  The wealthy and the powerful and the elected all work together to preserve their wealth, power and stature.  Any other issue is merely white noise.  Obama, the majority of democratic politicians, the banks, the corporations, are all working together to preserve the status quo, to the tune of trillions of dollars.  We all look at Obama and say how can this man who promised so much be such an ass.  Simply put, it's his job to preserve the status quo.  It's ours to change it.  Whether the democratic party wins or loses in the 2010 election, it still wins if the status quo is preserved.  That's what we have in NYC.  What should we do?  Step one:  take out all money from Citibank.  Then pick the next target.  If we have to sit in the back of the bus, let's stop taking the bus.

  •  we have to take 'not voting' off the table. (7+ / 0-)

    It isn't an option. period. If you are unhappy with the current set of politicians, work like hell to primary them and get a better candidate. If at the end of the day you have to choose between the lesser of two evils, go with less evil. The opposition is going to work very hard to make sure disgruntled democrats stay home in 2010. Not voting is giving up the right too many sacrifices have been made for.

  •  I vote in every election (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    I am not claiming we can convince all of our potential voters to make this an article of faith, but we can certainly increase the number by talking up an unconditional commitment to voting instead of proposing to boycott elections.
    Not satisfied with your Democratic incumbent? That is what primaries are for. Are primaries uncompetitive in your constituency? Look, it is a lot less of a chore to go vote than to run for office. Plenty of good people are discouraged from running for office by the amount of money it can take to get voters' attention.
    The deadline in Texas to file in a primary is Jan. 2 or 3 and the Houston Chronicle will carry a list of candidates filed and I buy a copy and cut out and save the list. More of our potential supporters need to learn to shop for candidates.

  •  If you see that data and you don't vote.... (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    askew, princss6, 416Liberal are responsible for what happens as a result. If people haven't learned anything after 2000, then I don't think they really care about any particular set of values or principles.

    So when there is a 6-3 majority on the SCOTUS that hands abortion "back to the states", it will be YOUR fault for not voting.

    When we invade Iran, it will be YOUR fault for not voting.

    When we have even bigger giveaways to corporate interests and Wall Street, it will be your FAULT as well.

    If Progressives stay home then Progressives are not going to be part of an governing coalition...ever. The other side says, "screw your disappointment, we're going to show up". Same with Independents.

    2010 AND 2012 are not just tests for the President, Congress, and the party, it is also a test for Progressives. An unreliable group is just that...unreliable and therefore not worth the bother. I don't want to see the President pushed to the Right to look for votes as Clinton did.

    I still believe the President's ground game will save him when all is said and done, but it'll be a shame if it is a much closer election simply out of pique.

    "Most people would sooner die than think; in fact, they do so." ...Bertrand Russell

    by sebastianguy99 on Mon Nov 30, 2009 at 04:53:01 PM PST

  •  You want Democrats to come out and vote? (5+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Jim J, tmo, BeerNotWar, Square Knot, Jaffa Kree

    Tell President Obama and the Congress to:

    Get our troops home (like they promised us)
    Get some jobs created (like we need)

    That's about it.

    That's what it'll take this time, because the last two times we (the voters) were told

    "give us a majority in Congress and the White House"
    "give us a 60 vote, filibuster-proof Senate"

    We did that.

    What have we gotten in return for all of that calling, door knocking and GOTVing (not to mention all the cash we gave) during the 2006-2008 cycle?

    1 More debt, less jobs. (I am ok with the debt right now, but without jobs to provide more tax revenue to pay down that debt, we are headed for Big Trouble, and it ain't that far in the offing, either)
    2 Yeah, they 'saved' the economy from total meltdown (at least that's what they're telling us, but I have yet to see any data proving it), but the financial sector is still operating under the same rules that lead to the Great Recession of 2009.
    3 Six more months of debate on whether or not the US needs to supply access to affordable medical services for all Americans, because the previous sixty years was not enough. A bill to actually provide that access?  Still waiting for more debate.  And a Public Option is still not a fait accompli.

    The Democratic Party base is tired.
    We thought that our work during the past four years would result in a majority in Congress and a Democratic President AND legislation that would make our lives better and the world a safer place.

    Silly us.  Guess all we get is the satisfaction of knowing that better people are occupying those seats in Congress.  Getting the legislation that we need and that they promised us in return for getting them there? Not so much...

  •  What needs to be done? (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    tmo, boofdah, HoustonObamacan

    Grow up?

    Any country that can elect George Bush in 2004 is not 4 years away from recovery, or 8 or 12.


    Several generations will be getting out of this hole.

    Time to grow the f up and start fighting.

    a hard rain's gonna fall

    by Paul Goodman on Mon Nov 30, 2009 at 04:55:09 PM PST

  •  Real Change To Energize Dems (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    boofdah, Clarknt67

    I don't want to propose ANYTHING that takes action from Congress as I realize that is difficult.

    So this is easy:

    Dump Rahm.
    Dump Summers.
    Dump Bernanke.
    Dump Geithner.

    Four simple changes that you can do practically overnight.

    And don't replace them with more middle class destroying morons.

  •  Larry Sabato's take (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    He thinks it's normal and to be expected. He also offers little hope.

  •  Democrats! Fuck Yeah! (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    That is what our Congress-critters need to engender us to sing.

    Getting us a REAL HCR bill.  Fuck Yeah!

    Getting us the fuck out of Iraq and Afghanistan.  Fuck Yeah!

    Getting people jobs, jobs, jobs.  Fuck Yeah!

    I want to be able to point to my President and my elected officials and scream out with pride - YOU SEE WHAT THEY DID?!?!?!?  THAT'S WHY I FUCKING GOT THEM ELECTED!  DEMOCRATS!  FUCK YEAH!

  •  Two things (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    tmo, willibro, boofdah, HoustonObamacan
    1. forget the deficit and get a jobs bill going that will get unemployment down pronto.

    2.put some of the Wall St banksters in jail - treat them like the criminals they are. I think the kid-glove treatment of Wall St is what is really depressing the numbers for Dems

  •  what needs to be done? (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    willibro, boofdah

    ...Well the people in Washington need first to realize it is not a problem with the public it is a problem with THEM.  They are not doing what the people want or elected them to do.  I think what would get me enthused is if the democrats started acting like Democrats and loudly support DEMOCRATIC ideals.  We need Obama to use his bully pulpit to say 'This is what we are doing.  We won.  Either lead, follow or shut up and get out of the way'  

    Fuck bipartisanship and fuck civility if necessary.

    We Glory in war, in the shedding of human blood. What fools we are.

    by delver rootnose on Mon Nov 30, 2009 at 05:09:50 PM PST

  •  Here's a political astrologer's take on 2010: (0+ / 0-)

    "It seems very likely that the Democrats will take meaningful losses in the 2010 election, making it far more difficult for Obama to push through his agenda during the second half of his term.

    Whereas the 111th Congress (January 2009) will be relatively effective and harmonious" (Me: WTF?!?) "the 112th Congress (drawn for 1/4/11) will be almost paralyzed with anger and partisanship."

    (Prediction posted on 12/23/08)

    See "Predictions Page"

    I used to be disgusted, now I'm just amused

    by CodemeisterFromCleveland on Mon Nov 30, 2009 at 05:11:57 PM PST

  •  Pretty... (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    much dispels the notion that independents are just wishy washy, undecided voters rather than the principled, centrist-minded group that they actually are.

  •  In my view .. (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    willibro, boofdah, HoustonObamacan

    .. this lack of "enthusiasm" can primarily be attributed to the stunningly poor performance of our elected Democratic representatives both in congress and the administration.  On that historic day, November 4, 2008, expectations and hopes where high; and everyone knew that.  Our representatives went to work in January knowing that there was a clear mandate for change; and their subsequent performance was spectacularly below those expectations.  Devastatingly disappointing.

    So, what do I think needs to be done?

    In my view, the ball is in the court of four senators who appear to be set on derailing health care reform.  What needs to be done now is to be done by them, and by congressional democrats as a whole.  It's the health care bill.  There's still time to turn the whole thing around; still time to change course and strengthen the bill.

    If democrats in congress were to suddenly realize their historic opportunity, if congress were to suddenly stand up and pass outstandingly meaningful health care reform, it would fire up progressives and help to restore the deeply emotional support that we felt on inauguration day.

    Or they can continue on their present lackluster course, squandering the mandate that we provided a year ago, and they can suffer the results that your poll shows will be the consequence.

    That's my view.

  •  not going to change (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    unless the elected ones start doing what they were elected to do.

    War cannot be waged to instill any virtue, including democracy or the liberation of women. - Chris Hedges

    by dancewater on Mon Nov 30, 2009 at 05:26:56 PM PST

  •  It's not voter apathy... (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    willibro, boofdah

    but disgust with the way the Democratic party has 'governed' since gaining majorities in both houses as well as the White House.  Despite rarer and rarer moments of inspiring rhetoric from President Obama, the Democrats have shown themselves to be not a helluva lot better than the Republicans.  The Pubs are willing to fight to the death for truly bad policies and ideology.  The cowardly Dems, OTOH, are so busy compromising away any hint of the policies and ideology we voted them into office to uphold, that they are basically useless as an alternative to Republicans.

    The GOP is in tatters, with no credible leadership, yet the weakness and ineptness of the Dems is allowing the Republicans to frame and define every issue, every debate.  The Republicans seem to have more effectiveness as a chaotic, leaderless minority party than the Democrats can demonstrate with all of the levers of government in their hands.

    Obama is throwing out little symbolic gestures of progressive or liberal ideals, but basically he is hewing to the very policies of the Bush administration that he was denouncing in the campaign.  For example, his latest reversal is his announcement that he is going to support a renewal of the very Patriot Act abuses he was violently opposed to last fall.  Maybe we should rename him Obusha.

    At any rate, the worst thing for liberal and progressive Democrats (who, after all, are responsible for every major Democratic policy success from Social Security to the Civil Rights Act) is to have a Democrat-in-name-only leadership in power.  For fear of letting the Republicans back in the door, too many liberals and progressives are afraid to stand up and criticize Obama when he expands the Afghan war, continues Bush's warrantless surveillance, keeps detainees locked up in secret prisons as well as Gitmo, uses the same specious Bush rationales for keeping up the wall of secrecy, avoids meaningful action on Don't Ask/Don't Tell, settles for a healthcare 'reform' so bad, the health insurance industry and big Pharma are the big winners, and we'd be better off with the status quo (or less poorly off, would be more accurate).

    At least, if we give the current Republicrats who lead the Democratic party the boot, we will have Republicans in power and the liberals and progressives, who woke up during the 2008 campaign for the first time since Reagan was elected will have somebody they can stand up to and fight against for their progressive views.  

    A Democratic party disaster in 2010 (and even 2012) will be a short-term disaster for the country, letting back in the very people who almost destroyed this country over the past 30 years.  However, we are never going to be able to restore the Democratic party to the great party of liberal and progressive ideals (and the spine to fight for them) that died 30 years ago, until we clean house and the triangulators, Blue Dogs, Conservadems, and compromisers get their comeuppance and are removed from party leadership.

    Compare these quotes:

    "Compromise is never anything but an ignoble truce between the duty of a man and the terror of a coward."

    -- Reginald W. Kaufman

    "The 'morality of compromise' sounds contradictory. Compromise is usually a sign of weakness, or an admission of defeat. Strong men don't compromise, it is said, and principles should never be compromised."

    -- Andrew Carnegie

    "The opposite of compromise is character."

    -- Frederick Douglass

    "Moderation? It's mediocrity, fear, and confusion in disguise. It's the devil's dilemma. It's neither doing nor not doing. It's the wobbling compromise that makes no one happy. Moderation is for the bland, the apologetic, for the fence-sitters of the world afraid to take a stand. It's for those afraid to laugh or cry, for those afraid to live or die. lukewarm tea, the devil's own brew."

    -- Dan Millman

    "All compromise is based on give and take, but there can be no give and take on fundamentals. Any compromise on mere fundamentals is a surrender. For it is all give and no take."

    -- Mohandas Gandhi

    and finally:

    "A good compromise, a good piece of legislation, is like a good sentence; or a good piece of music. Everybody can recognize it. They say, 'Huh. It works. It makes sense.'"

    -- Barack Obama

    And, there you have the clear reason why I am one of the 40% who will not vote Democratic until the party actually starts to stand up for what I, and most grassroots Democrats, believe in, and does it with strength and conviction.  I will always vote for principle, and if the Dems don't have the vision or the guts to draw their battle lines on principle, they will not get my vote.

  •  How about more than just a TWO party system... (0+ / 0-) other REAL Democratic Countries have. If we would at least allow all parties on the ballot to be part of a Presidential debate, combined with rigorous campaign finance reform we might actually achieve something.

    But what we have now seems like nothing more than the rich and richer representing the poor and poorer. Only a person earning in excess of a million dollars can run for office and the last election, between both parties, cost $1 billion - not million, BILLION!  

    The Democratic candidates all like to preach of their humble start in life but the fact of the matter is - they are MILLIONAIRES when they run for high office. You have to be! Elections are a money game not a voting game.

    So many people have bought hook, line and sinker into the two party system. What we really have is only ONE party, the CORPORATE Party!

    Do you think Wall Street cares who wins control of the White House? Or the Senate? Or Congress? Hell no! As long as it takes a million dollars to run for public office, they know that sooner or later, a politician can always be bought.

    Personally, I'm not really sure we should care so much about "saving" the Democrats as we should ELIMINATING them and replacing them with a REAL peoples party.

    But start with campaign finance reform.

    •  it is just not possible due to the EC (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      Having a third party makes no sense what so ever with the Electoral College - where many states are winner takes all.

      •  That's just the Presidency (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:

        Why can't third parties succeed in the House, Senate, etc... Didn't Lieberman and Sanders win in the Senate as Independents?

        The shortest distance between two points is never a straight line.

        by noofsh on Mon Nov 30, 2009 at 07:25:43 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  Then change the EC system... (0+ / 0-)

        OR, learn to love your country the way it is right now because this is the best it will ever get.

        We can toggle back and forth between DEM and GOP for the rest of our lives but nothing will ever change.

        It isn't Barack Obama who is broken, the system is broken. All we did by putting that man in office is elect a star player to a losing team in a fixed game.

        How is anyone supposed to get "energized" about that?

  •  Math? (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    So, lets look at the stats:

    81% of the 20% (18%) of registered repugs


    56% + 65% = 121% or the 72% of the sane people.

    72% > 18%  

    I don't see a real problem here.

  •  perspective. (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    tmo, boofdah, Tailspinterry, brein


    To democrats.. this election is not about Obama.  It just isnt.  So at least for our side, that part of the equation is invalid.  He isnt going to drive up or drive down the turnout.  "Obama" voters are going to be hard to motivate.  What we need to do is forget about the President.  Stop waiting for him to ride in on a white cloud and save the day.  

    The 2010 elections have to be focused on the local if we want any chance.  Get involved locally.  Forget national politics.  Let the tea partiers scream about natio-commu-socialism-omg.  We can double down on the grass roots.  What are the issues important to progressive, moderate and new voters in each area.


    I am shocked by how passive we are all being.  How about this...  instead of wringing our hands and crying woe is me...  how about we pick out the 10 most important house seats up for grabs and do everything we can organize and bolster those races.  Look..  we are going to lose some seats.  We have some dead weight and some people in seats that are going to be demographically almost impossible to hold.  We need to understand that.  But what are the 10 seats that are the bulwark.  What critical seats should the Kosssaks and the online progressive community be filling sandbags for.

    We cry about some of our people in Washington not being liberal enough.  Damn... do we not see the opportunity here?  You want a person on your side?  Let them look around the foxhole when the shit is hitting the fan and see progressive faces.  Get the back of people who are on our side...maybe sometimes not so perfectly... but I bet they will be in the future.

    Republicans are talking purity tests.. we need to talk about building relationships and strengthening the sum of the parts to increase the whole.   HAve we not learned the key to success is doing the opposite of what those idiots are doing?


    Its not a goddamn sprint.  Its a marathon.  Our movement and our cause is not about one bill, or one election or one person.  Its way bigger than that.  Its about moving this country in a positive way.  Its about our generation leaving our country in a better shape than what was handed to us.  Its long term and it requires patience and a long view.
    We win 2010 by limiting GOP victories.  We have a chance to break their back here.  This is their best shot.  If we can weather it we can buy ourselves some time.

    Forget the media and horse race.  Forget about approval ratings and the TMZ take to news that politics has become.  Think beyond the newscycle.

    Get involved in a local race.  Get involved with GOTV.  Get involved with getting the word out.  Give to candidates where our money can do the most good.


    We need to keep playing offense.  We cant sit back.  We have to find candidates that can compete in traditionally red districts.  In my perfect world NOBODY gets a free ride this election.  Find those centrists have them run tough campaigns against the GOP incumbants.  Make them scramble and take money that would otherwise be going to attack our front line guys.

    Don't give into the panic.  Think.  Act.  Win.

    •  Thank you for a cogent, solutions-based response. (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      ...that IMO goes to the heart of the matter and thinks long-range. We Democrats are so guilty of always looking just toward the next election and biting our nails over it, rather than looking down the long range on setting goals for what we want to actually accomplish.

      "They say we take the Christ out of Christmas, but I swear they take the Christ out of Christian." - joynow on dK

      by boofdah on Mon Nov 30, 2009 at 06:50:30 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Excuse me (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    tmo, brein, Clarknt67

    but exactly what's to figure out here? The Democratic Party is not delivering on anything important. So Democrats are pissed off, discouraged, and angry. And they don't feel like voting, or giving money, or canvassing for the party.

    Whine about "Oh, what a fine strategy THAT is!" all you want. The fact is that the Democratic base is just smarter than the Republican base. So they know right away when they're being fobbed off with bullshit. Unlike the sheeplike Believers that animate the Rethug base, they're just not going to wait around for 30 years for you to move on DADT, civil rights, ending these wars, and creating jobs.

    You want enthusiasm? Start delivering.

    Right now, the DSCC and the Senate Dems can go fuck themselves... - That Rude Markos Dude

    by willibro on Mon Nov 30, 2009 at 06:09:35 PM PST

  •  health care (0+ / 0-)

    I'm curious to see what will happen if health care passes...I'm guessing that will improve enthusiasm on our side.
    Additionally, a good jobs bill and a real effort by the President and Congress to create jobs should also have a positive effect.
    Right now I'd say progress on these issue is the best chance we have for changing these stats.

  •  The only thing that can be done: (0+ / 0-)
    1.  Fire Geithner and Summers and let them take the fall for the last year of dubious fiscal policy.
    1.  JOBS.
    1.  JOBS.
    1.  JOBS.
    1.  JOBS.
  •  I have a thought... (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    How about if Democrats actually started acting like "the party of the people"  and stopped acting like Republican corporate whores?  Maybe then the people who came out in 2008 wouldn't stay home on 2010.  It's the lesson they should get from the 2009 elections in Virginia and New Jersey, not to mention NY-23.  But they'll learn the wrong lesson and decide to move further to the right so they can grab some of that sweet corporate cash.

  •  Obama no longer inspires (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    We'll get a strong war, weak health care bill, Wall Street bailouts, main street broken promises.  Obama looks more and more like an amiable fraud.  Worst of all, he seems oblivious to how thoroughly and quickly he's alienating his base of supporters.  The polls show the obvious: Dems will avoid voting next year.  

    I walked the streets in fall 08 and celebrated in the cold at the DC inauguration. But when the phone rings asking for contributions (and I've given a lot for my family's income), I simply say: "I've seen nothing to inspire me. Don't call again."

  •  Escalating isn't a crowd pleaser! (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    But that's what Obama already did.  I strongly recommend that he accelerates the process of bringing troops home from Iraq.

    The shortest distance between two points is never a straight line.

    by noofsh on Mon Nov 30, 2009 at 06:23:48 PM PST

  •  Dump Tim Kaine (0+ / 0-)

    He inspires sleep.

    The shortest distance between two points is never a straight line.

    by noofsh on Mon Nov 30, 2009 at 06:25:31 PM PST

  •  One Year Out (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    I think Katrina spelled out what I'm thinking best in this Nation article:
    Obama, One Year On

    Obama could have used the moment of economic crisis to restructure the economy and rein in the financial sector, not simply resuscitate it. The taxpayer-funded bailout of the banks has contributed to a popular backlash. If Obama doesn't respond to the widespread anguish and anger with constructive support for those in need, the GOP will continue to channel it in destructive directions.

    There are other disappointments. I am sure you have your list. At the top of mine is Obama's failure to end the excesses and abuses associated with the Bush/Cheney national security apparatus; also on it is his unwillingness to push more strongly for a public option on healthcare reform. But instead of playing the betrayal sweepstakes, which promotes disappointment and despair, we'd be smart to practice a progressive politics defined by realistic hope and pragmatism. That is, simply denouncing the administration's missteps and failures doesn't get us very far and furthers what our adversaries seek: our disempowerment. We can't afford that. These are times to avoid falling into either of two extremes: reflexively defensive or reflexively critical.

    Remember that throughout our history, it has taken large-scale, sustained organizing to win structural change. There would have been no New Deal without the vast upsurge in union activism and unemployed councils, no civil rights legislation without the mass movement. We need to learn from those inspiring examples and build our own movements. And we need to start playing inside-outside politics too: engage the administration and Congress, even as we push without apology for bolder solutions than the ones Obama has offered.

    Progressives should focus less on the limits of the Obama agenda and more on the possibilities that his presidency opens up. Like all presidents, Obama is constrained by powerful opponents and deep structural impediments. Independent organizing and savvy coalition-building will be critical in overcoming the timid incrementalists of his own party and the forces of money and establishment power that are obstacles to change. But if we work effectively, we can push Obama beyond the limits of his own politics and create a new progressive era.

    What wears me out is the ease with which progressives seem to fall into despair, ready to give up...rather than fight!

    •  Good post (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      I respect Katrina's analysis.  I think she has it about right.

      We need to encourage Obama to accelerate the Iraq withdrawal.

      Almost, we need to plant the idea that there is too much group think in his economic team.  Bring in a progressive.

      On another front, not sure if this is possible, I think the DNC should dump Tim Kaine.  He is an awful DNC chair.

      The shortest distance between two points is never a straight line.

      by noofsh on Mon Nov 30, 2009 at 06:28:48 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  I am not as concerned about these numbers (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    Someone may have said this, republicans have been in campaign mode for the last year essentially rallying against anything Obama says while democrats were actually GOVERNING this country. Once the campaign has  actually began for 2010 I expect the democrat's number will go up. Having said that those numbers are still very ugly, so to speak.

  •  How about standing up for a progressive agenda?!! (0+ / 0-)

    Really, how FUCKING hard is this?

    If you want to rally the base, then DO WHAT WE WANT.

    End the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.

    Fight hard for, and pass, a strong public option, Medicare for All reform.

    Pass a jobs bill, a new WPA and CCC.

    Break up "too big to fail banks".

    End warrantles wiretapping and close down Gitmo.

    THIS IS NOT HARD! Just stand up for the people, say FUCK YOU to your corporate campaign donors, and we will come out and vote.

    If not, well, by being "Repug lite", then you get to get beat by your Republican opponent. Or.. better yet.. PRIMARIED by real progressives.

    I'd suggest actively seeking primary challengers for any Democrats who are weaseling out to their corporate overlords. That'll rally the base, in a huge way.

    I'm ready for another Ned Lamont, another John Tester, and a shit-ton more Alan Graysons. Not to mention more Bernie Sanders, Barbara Boxers, Sherrod Browns, etc.

  •  Obama as Uncle Sam (0+ / 0-)

    Tom Delay, Trent Lott, George Bush, Iraq, deregulation, tax cuts for the wealthy...

    it is easier to go backwards than you think. I want you to VOTE in 2010.

  •  Strong health care reform (0+ / 0-)

    job creation that leads to an unemployment rate under 7%, making the banks refinance home mortgages, crack down on credit card companies, car manufacturers to continue making fuel efficient cars and electric cars, Continue encouraging and funding the creation and openning of solar energy businesses, etc. All domestic issues. These are all things he is presently doing. But the whining is loud and impatient. The country was really really really f**ked up people. It will take time for these things to work. If you don't vote, and the fools get back in office, you can blame yourselves.

    President Obama has already forced the closing of off shore tax havens in the tune of 14,200 of them. Don't pull defeat from the jaws of victory.

  •  We sound like Republicans (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    This is how it all starts. I remembering reading how disillusioned and apathetic their base was in the last election. For them McCain wasn't conservative enough. The last time they controlled congress it was a f-ing train wreck. Lets face the facts the POTUS is not as directly involved in crafting legislation, especially health care that we need him to be. He does not appear to be decisive. We elected what we thought was a decisive, hardball and hard driving president for our causes. I don't know about the rest of you but I feel he is is passive. The economy is mired in a nasty recession (not of his making, obviously) and he is just now talking about jobs. Hell I am at a loss as to what to do. We have huge majorities and act like the minority party. We are left defending crappy bills that gut our causes and crap on things like the public option and people tell me "well something is better than nothing or it would be worse if the Wingnuts were in charge." Well yeah but working to keep the wingnuts out is a whole lot easier to sell if our own party was not bending us over at every chance. I give my money and vote for people who care about the causes I care about not because the other guy is a shit head. Every dime I come by is hard right now and I gave and gave last year and look what it got me. Half measures and more gridlock with 60 senators and an 80 member lead in congress that doesn't have the balls to champion....well anything we elected them for. F-it!!!

    •  What you said (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      First off, we got to stop denying there is a problem.

      There IS a significant enthusiasm problem and did contribute to losses in 2009.  

      There IS a significant risk that if this gets even worse it will contribute to large losses in 2010.

      Just yelling at people to get out and vote is a losing strategy.  You really do have to give them a reason to vote. Even more so you have to give activists a reason to want to work in 2010.  Right now, I am not seeing any efforts on this area.  All we are being told is to suck it up and get over it.  Obama never promised this, never promised that.  Well hell, he did campaign on something.  Right?

      The shortest distance between two points is never a straight line.

      by noofsh on Mon Nov 30, 2009 at 06:55:30 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  There's really nothing that can be done (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    The main thing Republicans have going for them is that they only want to, and only have to, vote against Obama.  They hate him with a passion, and they're ready to vote their hate.

    Democrats have a bunch of issues with complicated solutions, which, as we've found out this year, take lots of legislative BS to make happen.  Not much to excite anyone.

    Obama won because (a) he was an inspiring alternative to McCain, and (b) he wasn't Bush.  Democrats were against Bush with a passion, and it worked last November.

    There's really nothing that can be done, because too many in this country can only become politically active when they're ready to be against something.  Voters are, in general, apathetic about issues.  If Democrats want to even hope to retain Congress in 2010, they had better find a way to paint the opposition with a stronger brush than they're painting us right now.  Which is really hard to believe is possible.  Nobody goes negative better than Republicans.

    It is now time to look forward to a paralyzed President and a Congress that will shut down the country before giving Obama anything (and I mean any single thing) he wants.  Obama either folds and follows a Republican Congress next year or the country goes bankrupt and shuts down.  Because the Democrats have already lost the negative story to the Republicans, things will be different than when Gingrich tried to shut down the country.  Now, it will only be Obama's fault.  At that rate, Palin will be a shoo-in in 2012.  (You want a weakling Republican Obama, or a "real" Republican Palin, 'Merica?)

    Apathy is a "wonderful" thing, t'ain't it.  Remember - there is basically one Republican bloc, that is against everything Obama is doing right now.  There are probably 3 main Democratic blocs, all at each other's throats right now.  Prescription for epic fail.

  •  I have been telling all the people that I (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Square Knot

    convinced to vote last year that they have to vote in local and off year elections.  I will keep hammering away though as too many people do not understand how important it is.

    That passed by; this can, too. - Deor

    by stevie avebury on Mon Nov 30, 2009 at 06:59:31 PM PST

  •  Dems listen to their base and keep their promises (0+ / 0-)

    I will never, ever, ever vote for a Repub, but it is becoming increasingly difficult for me to discern Dems from Repubs.

    If the Dems keep faith with the base that put them into the majority and elected a Dem Pres by passing meaningful healthcare reform with a public option and by approaching the Iraq and Afghanistan debacles in a coherent manner that protects our economy, our troops and innocent Afghan and Iraqi civilians, then the Dems will get my enthusiastic vote once more.

    If the Dems waffle, weaken and ultimately surrender to corporate interests, then they are no better than Repubs, and a third party will get my vote.  I am not alone in this sentiment.

    The above in no way should be construed as a threat.  Rather, it should be construed as an emphatic promise.

    Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice shame on me.  I refuse absolutely to be fooled by a Dem party that talks the talk and then declines to walk the walk.

    May God Bless our troops wherever they are. Best regards, El Tomaso

    by El Tomaso on Mon Nov 30, 2009 at 07:01:30 PM PST

    •  A split Democratic base favors... (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      ...permanent Republican control.  Republicans crave a split Democratic party, because it means their 35%, who hate and vote as one, can permanently control the country.  They know they're a minority, but a plurality wins in a 3-way split.  They are dancing on the grave of the Democratic party even as we write about these things.  There are basically 3 main blocs in the party right now, all at each other's throats.  Regardless of whether things like health care pass or not, these blocs will be PO'ed in 2010 and 2012.  This means that 35% wins, and that 35% is fired up and ready to vote today.  We aren't.  We will therefore lose.  No chance to recover because those 3 blocs will never be together - never.  Not one of the potential third parties that could arise from this wreckage will ever approach that 35% of hate 'n vote Republicans.

      •  Most politicians are greedy, but not stupid. (0+ / 0-)

        Dem politicians need to know what their base expects of them and what the consequences of failing to deliver will be.

        As much as I loathe Republican policy and practice, I will not vote Dem if the Dems betray me.  Remember Change you can believe in?

        It is just as unpleasant to get screwed by a Dem as it is to get screwed by a Repub.

        Dems can go to Hell if they betray this 62 y.o. Dem who has given significant support to his party.

        They need to

        1.  Pass healthcare reform as promised.
        1.  Support pro-labor legislation.
        1.  Continue to extricate us from the circle jerks in Irag and Afghanistan.

        These are the minimums that I and many progressive Dems demand.  The Dems are good at caving to corporate interests.  If they want to maintain a majority they had damn well better get better at supporting the interests of those who put them in office.

        May God Bless our troops wherever they are. Best regards, El Tomaso

        by El Tomaso on Mon Nov 30, 2009 at 07:13:25 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  Republicans don't vote as a bloc either (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        El Tomaso

        Just look what happened to them in NJ-23.  The tea bagging RW don't vote for anyone they perceive as being too moderate.  So, they have their divisions as well.  What you really have is a country that is mainly pissed off at politicians.

        The shortest distance between two points is never a straight line.

        by noofsh on Mon Nov 30, 2009 at 07:23:01 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Representative democracy must represent people (0+ / 0-)

          In order for our system of government to work, our elected officials must do the bidding and adher to the wishes of the people who elect them.

          What I see now, is a group of elected officials who adher primarily to the interests of corporate America.

          This is predictable in light of where their campaign and other money comes from.

          I am not optimistic that it will happen, but campaign finance reform would be a major step towards fixing what is wrong with our country.

          May God Bless our troops wherever they are. Best regards, El Tomaso

          by El Tomaso on Tue Dec 01, 2009 at 04:47:04 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

    •  Parties stay by listening to people, not bases. (0+ / 0-)

      The democratic party fractured badly in the '70s, so we do know it can happen. But look what has happened to the GOP - it exists now almost solely as an outlet for generic anger and maintaining legislative veto power.

      I'll be disappointed if the democratic majority can't do some of the things I want. But that doesn't mean I'm going to vote for the GOP, not by a long shot.

      The democratic party needs to work hard to keep people involved and contributing. But seriously, I know what happens when our vote gets split by protest candidates.

  •  Yep a serious ass whooping in gonna happen (0+ / 0-)

    In a bunch places that could have been held or picked up by Democrats.  

    Why?   Because people for and supported someone they thought would CHANGE the way things are done in DC.

    And what they got in return was crickets... chirping in the absence of any real action.

    The bankers are still in charge, still making obscene amounts of money regardless of if they fail and take the economy with them...

    Oh and speaking of the economy, damn near everyone is a whole LOT MORE worried about that than they are the health care debate.

    Then again there is my own Senator Ben Nelson, who never met a special interest he didn't like and has made a career out of having a fence post firmly stuck up his backside... Conservative Democrats are what's gonna kill 2010.

    The really bad part is. if the crazy assed loons in the GOP win more seats in 2010, they can tie up the President and give him a hard run in 2012...

    Not to mention the nastiness that will happen in the house and senate before then, with even more GOPers there...

    I agree it is a problem, but it can only be fixed by certain folks in DC... and they are NOT doing what we elected them to do...

    Things were bad under GW Bush and Co... perhaps we need another round of GOP leadership to make things so really frakking bad, that people WILL actually get out and vote against them.

    Celebrating FAIL every day! (Official GOP Slogan 2009)

    by Nebraskablue on Mon Nov 30, 2009 at 07:14:56 PM PST

  •  When was the last time... (0+ / 0-)

    ...we had a liberal who didn't compromise as President?

    I don't think they could even get elected.  And they would need not just 60 Democrats in the Senate, but 60 LIBERALS in the Senate who didn't need campaign contributions or votes from anyone to their right.

    Can it even be done?

  •  Meh (0+ / 0-)

    Half snark

    The Obama administration has fired 532 soldiers for being gay as of 11/29/09.

    by Scott Wooledge on Mon Nov 30, 2009 at 07:31:28 PM PST

  •  I've voted Democratic since Kennedy, never (0+ / 0-)

    missing a mid-term or presidental election, but I understand the message LOUD AND CLEAR coming through KOS from the left-progressives that my vote isn't wanted. I understand moderates are to stand out of the way and keep our mouths shut.  

    •  Then you're listening to the minority... (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      You might hear a thousand people griping, but it's only a thousand people... out of a country of millions. Grand as we might like to think it is, KOSistan is not a large number of people. Anyway, you have to learn to filter the crud. People like me want your vote. The next generation wants your vote.

      Freedom isn't free: Pay your taxes!

      by walk2live on Mon Nov 30, 2009 at 08:31:18 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  I Don't Believe That Moderates.... (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      were the ones who were told to STFU by the President's Chief of Staff. So now who is it that is being told to stand out of the way?

    •  liberals are the ones sidelined (0+ / 0-)

      Obama's drive to be bi-partisan has caused the liberal side of the party to be left on the outside looking in, why should they bother to vote for him. His actions say loud and clear that Democratic moderates don't want liberal support except in close elections and would prefer they just stfu until needed again.

  •  I think some miss the point (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    If you look at the numbers this couldn't be just progressives lacking enthusiasm.  Independents also lack enthusiasm for Dems.

    Look, there is something amiss.

    Putting her heads in the sand isn't helping.

    We need to encourage the President and Congress to do more of what they promised to do in 2006 & 2008.  Let's start with getting out of Iraq.  I'll accept that we will increase troops in Afghanistan by one division for a year or so.  But why aren't we moving faster on getting out of Iraq?  I seem to recall during hearing about withdrawing one division every month.  What happened?

    The shortest distance between two points is never a straight line.

    by noofsh on Mon Nov 30, 2009 at 07:46:47 PM PST

  •  what do you think needs to be done? (0+ / 0-)

    Ummmmm....ratchet up the disaster in Afghanistan?

  •  what do you think needs to be done? (0+ / 0-)

    Water down health insurance reform even more?

    Keep kicking gays out of the military?

    Let energy companies write yet another energy bill?

    Keep overlooking torture?

    Keep bailing out megabanks while unemployment rises and small businesses can't get loans?

  •  4 things (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    1- It’s the economy, stupid. Yes, it’s cliché, but it’s also true. If the economy turns around, so will the prospects for the democrats.

    2- Give Howard Dean a high-profile job in the administration. Whatever bad blood exists between him & Rahm... they need to just get the fuck over it. Dean is a great guy who can fight, articulate and "get to the point" quickly.

    3- More FIRE from Obama... Where’s the passion we saw during the campaign? That’s the guy people voted for. Personally, I like the mellow/smooth Obama, but that doesn’t get people "fired up and ready to vote". The only time I’ve seen it recently is when he’s... been out campaigning for other people.  

    4- Do something bold that gives a positive impression of government – preferably something they can see with their own eyes. You can pass all the bills you want, but if people don’t actually see something tangible happen, they won’t respond.

    If people don’t feel like government does anything for them, why should they do anything for government?... like vote?

    I'm going to write a diary (that maybe a dozen people will read) about point #4... we need more marketing in government.

    Freedom isn't free: Pay your taxes!

    by walk2live on Mon Nov 30, 2009 at 08:20:58 PM PST

  •  I feel like an anti-abortionist (0+ / 0-)

    I used to wonder why the anti-abortionists would vote for the GOP every year, put them in office, receive lip service, and watch as abortion remained legal.

    Now I know how they feel.  I vote for the Dems to get the economy regulated again, to work on global warming, to get some recognition for LGBT people (at least ENDA, for God's sake), to make some progress toward the same health care that every other first world country has.

    I need to see some results soon.  I think the Democratic voters have less tolerance for lip service - maybe we ARE smarter than the GOP voters.

  •  I was a registered republican until 2008 (0+ / 0-)

    because I never voted in a primary until '08. Hadn't voted for a republican candidate for anything higher than local office in at least a decade, though.

    I think there's a good chance we'll lose some seats in 2010 - two-party politics are defined by equilibrium. But I don't think it will be many. And I think we're going to win a few, too - like TX-10, where the incumbent republican had to explain losing 10,000 manufacturing jobs at a local military contractor. I guess he was too busy getting new business from his clients - health insurance companies.

    When I went to vote in the presidential primary last year, in suburban houston, where I and half the people on my block work for energy companies, I had to make sure I hadn't made a mistake, because there were perhaps 400 people ahead of me at the democratic primary site. I am CERTAIN that line would have been smaller if I was there in '04, or '00, or almost any year before that.

    (I heard the lines at the republican primary were much shorter. And angrier.)

  •  What needs to be done? (0+ / 0-)

    Obama needs to actually accomplish something. Anything.

  •  Most of the people (0+ / 0-)

    here will either recommend "pushing Obama and Congress further to the left" or "primary every Democrat who doesn't vote progressive" or "vote for real progressive, even if that means abandoning the party, which "abandoned us""

    All three proposals will, most likely, lead to disaster, Obama and Congress may be pushed to the left, but only to some extent. They, being a "practical politicians", not "wold-eyed idealists" (like many people here) know, that there is no solid left-leaning majority in US. On the contrary - number of people who call themselves "conservatives" (about 40%) is about 2 times more then "liberals" (20%) and slighly exceeds "moderate block" (about 35-37%). In 2008 vast majority (about 70-75% by my count) of moderates went for Obama, but that didn't made them "progressives" - they remain essentially moderate and, in crisis period we experience - even somewhat conservative (at least - fiscal conservative). And these "practical-minded politcians" want to get reelected first and only after that - to pass some social and other programs

    "Primary evere apostate" - well, that's theoretically possible. But, first of all - not every such primary challenge will succeed: try to primary Gene Taylor or even Bobby Bright - i doubt that that will be easy. In addition - in vast majority of cases such "successfull challenge" will simply mean "automatic pickup" of the district by even more conservative (much more conservative in most cases) Republican. There are simpply not enough more or less "progressive" districts in country - about 180-190 at most by my count, and there are only about 10-15 "reliable" Democratic districts, where present congressman isn't a "progressive" and may be primaried without very substantial risk.

    The third position doesn't need detail explanation. Being a moderate Independent i would greatly prefer a multi-party system in US (at least - 3-party: liberal, centrist and conservative), but that's a future, and, most likely, not near future. Right now third-party support usually leads not to "addition" (of people and ideas), but rather to "subtraction" - decrease in number of candidates of party  and views you theoretically sympathize elected....

    •  Hmmm...Sounds Like An Excuse For Vacillation... (0+ / 0-)

      The whole center-right thing is a figment of the fevered imaginations of Faux News, Rush Limbaugh (who knew that he could even spell?), the Village Talking Class and the few who buy into it.
      The premise that pushing Obama further to the left will lead to disaster in 2010 is not well though out. It simply gives David Broder fodder to fill his mindless rants. The voters voted for a left leaning person for some very specific reasons. If you want to know what, go back and look at some of the polling done for this blog before the election.
      They wanted the wars stopped.
      They wanted Medicare for all.
      They wanted Guantanamo closed.
      They wanted the bloated Department of Defense budget eviscerated so that they wouldn't have to have bake sales to buy chalk to the teachers for their kids could write on the chalkboards.
      They wanted a Justice Department that would right the wrongs of the Bush years.
      They wanted a Dept. of Labor that enforced the laws that were already on the books that kept corporations from abusing them.
      They wanted a Supreme Court that understood the terms compassion, being secure in your home from unwanted search and seizure, thought warrantless entries were never justified except in such a fringe few cases as to be rare, that thought warrantless wiretaps were not justified ever, because there was a judge available 24/7/365,etc.

      These are what people wanted last election. What they got was Clinton Revisited where Democrats became Republican Lite and so people said why should we drink Lite when we can have the same shit from the real thing. That's what is going to happen next year. Those people who keep whining that we need to be more center-right will win out in the end because they are afraid of change and the status quo is so much easier and then the Democratic Party will be slaughtered in the 2010 elections.

      •  i know exit polls much better (0+ / 0-)

        then you are. Excuse me - there is no single argument and no numbers in your post - only very simple and demagogic rhetoric. Then - what do we speak about? Give real arguments, not this rubbish - then we will talk

        BTW - I respect Clintons a lot. And if Democrats are Republican Lite for you - go vote for greens. And never win in your life. And i prefer to achieve what's achievable and to win...

  •  Why? (0+ / 0-)

    Why should we change these numbers? It's not as if there are going to be any progressives out there to vote for aside from the small progressive caucus.

    Why should we change these numbers? The last guy that we changed these numbers for and swept a bunch of people into office on his coattails, then promptly forgot who in the hell changed the numbers for them.

    Why should we change these numbers? It's not that everything moves slowly in Washington, the point is that the few things that HAVE been decided are merely Bush Lite decisions. More torture, more secrecy, more war, more dead kids from the poor side of town while the rich kids get Affirmative Action for the WWF class. That's White, Wealthy F****rs for those of you who still believe in change. More Bushies kept in critical offices to block any hope of progressive change. More Limousine Liberals who recruited to staff the White House and the Cabinet from the Goldman Sachs Fraternity.

    No, I think I will stick with my fellow 40% unless and until the man who promised us change and the beneficiaries of his oratorical skills decide that maybe, just maybe, they need those of us that put them where they are. Until then, I hope that Republican Lite thing works out for you.

    •  Well republican lite (0+ / 0-)

      as you call it is better than republican heavy, especially if by getting rid of more republicans and a few blue dogs in the Senate we could make it a lot lighter.

      Recovering Republican "Order is nothing more than very slow chaos."

      by anonymoose on Tue Dec 01, 2009 at 10:09:51 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Pass health care reform that (0+ / 0-)

    actually helps people significantly with the cost of health insurance, and, in addition, gives coverage to those who don't have health insurance now.

  •  Go negative...BIG TIME (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    It works for the republicans after all. The democrats need their own noise machine. Remind the democratic base and the independents CONSTANTLY about what the republican agenda is and why it would be a disaster for America, its economy, and most importantly for them personally and their families. Remind them of the economic disasters that the conservative/republican ideology has wrought in the past, not only in last year's meltdown but for half the country for the past 25 years. Attack the intellectual assumptions and underpinnings of American conservatism relentlessly. Make people fear for their children's lives due to global warming. Make sure every republican and religious right sex or financial scandal makes it to the front page.  Make every election from dogcatcher on up a referendum on the national republican party.

    Recovering Republican "Order is nothing more than very slow chaos."

    by anonymoose on Tue Dec 01, 2009 at 08:12:09 AM PST

    •  remind them of Bush (0+ / 0-)

      begining with tonights speech Obama should expose the failures of Bush and how they put us in our prsent situation.

    •  Just to expand on one statement above... (0+ / 0-)

      liberals and progressives seem to have totally ceded the intellectual debate to conservatives over the last 30 years.  I see plenty of attacks on conservative/republican polices, and complaints about authoritarianism, racism, sexism, and so forth, but not challenges to conservative ideology and assumptions per say (the exception being challenges to their belief that the government can't do anything right - that's a start). The liberal think tanks and thinkers need to get busy writing books and hitting the talking heads programs.    

      Recovering Republican "Order is nothing more than very slow chaos."

      by anonymoose on Tue Dec 01, 2009 at 08:32:01 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  We need democrats to stop acting like (0+ / 0-)

    rethuglicans and we need a mjority leaders with BACKBONES.

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