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Okay, I do admit that when Bernie Sanders says something, my ears prick up a bit.

Same when Howard Dean comments on the issue.

But if it is a statement coming from the White House, I tend to hit the "ignore" feature of my brain.

Yes at this point I am trying to pretty much ignore the whole Health Care "reform" efforts.

And instead, be thankful for what did happen in my lifetime.

After all, if LBJ had been as ineffective about Civil Rights as this Administration has been about HCR, Obama would not be President right now - he'd be shucking peas somewhere.

But LBJ pushed effectively for an entire sweeping reform.

The summer of 1965, LBJ didn't run around with segregationists asking them how and what they felt they wanted and needed from Civil Rights reform.

He pushed on everyone in elected office and by the first week of JULY 1965 was signing the Civil Rights Act into law. That's right - by the very fist week in July!

But when you have a Wall Street President, then you are not going to see anything but total ineffectiveness as the main, on camera activity. (We will, I guess, have to ignore all the back room WH deals with Big Pharma and Big Medical Interests, cuz we don't know what got said there.)

Strongest public statement all summer, 2009,  from Obama on HCR was this mealy mouthed statement to a Univ. Of Colorado student, "Well, uh, no one knows what will be in the final Health Care bill. But the public option is only one tool in a whole list of tools. And it might be that the public option won't even be in the final bill."

Boy did this Administration ever get that final sentence right:
"And it might be that the public option won't even be in the final bill."

And it took him until August of 2009 to come up with that!

On the credit side - it was totally difficult for Obama to keep his pledges to the Big Medical Interests, and he didn't waiver on keeping those pledges - he persevered, no matter how long it took.

It was hard for the President to keep his pledges and to create such a giveaway - after all he came into office with a 62% mandate for real change, and with 76% of all Americans wanting some form of public option. But his perseverance paid off - Big Time.

Obama's "efforts"  just didn't pay off for We the Average People.

Originally posted to Truedelphi on Tue Feb 23, 2010 at 01:15 PM PST.

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Comment Preferences

  •  Tip Jar (12+ / 0-)

    Offer your heart some Joy every day of your life, and spread it along to others.

    by Truedelphi on Tue Feb 23, 2010 at 01:15:04 PM PST

    •  Curiously absent from your half-witted "analysis" (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      HeyMikey

      The roll call vote itself.

      Senate: 79–18 * Democrats: 49–17 * Republicans: 30–1

      I'm not sure you'd like the kind of health care reform that would garner 30 Republican votes.

      •  False argument (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        corvo

        It was the Southern Dems who were strongly opposed, hence the 17 Dem no votes.

      •  I notice you've responded to the Tip Jar. (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Betty Pinson

        Could this be an example of "gaming the system" that you purport to decry elsewhere...?

        We learn to love the struggle, and fear victory-- Me, Madison Wisconsin, c. 1970

        by PhilJD on Tue Feb 23, 2010 at 02:59:40 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Where did I decry responding to the tip jar? (0+ / 1-)
          Recommended by:
          Hidden by:
          Betty Pinson

          Oh wait I didn't, dumbass.

          •  You decried "gaming the system." Your words. (0+ / 0-)

            Do you need a link to your own post?

            We learn to love the struggle, and fear victory-- Me, Madison Wisconsin, c. 1970

            by PhilJD on Tue Feb 23, 2010 at 03:16:05 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  Fire away (0+ / 0-)

               Early/quick recs/comments (1+ / 0-)

              help boost the diary's standing in the recommended list. It's more important to fire off a quick comment in the crucial early minutes than to wait and post a substantiative remark.

              All part of gaming the system.

              Where did I decry responding to the tip jar? Or anything for that matter?  I didn't.

              Learn how to read, dumbshit.

              •  I read just fine. You, not so fine. (0+ / 0-)

                I never claimed you complained specifically about posters responding to the Tip Jar. I did point out, correctly, that you griped about people gaming the system. I asked an entirely pertinent question, whether responding to the Tip Jar might be another example of gaming the system. As far as "decrying," the following comment speaks for itself. Or was that someone else with the same name?

                Early/quick recs/comments help boost the diary's standing in the recommended list. It's more important to fire off a quick comment in the crucial early minutes than to wait and post a substantiative remark.
                All part of gaming the system.

                We learn to love the struggle, and fear victory-- Me, Madison Wisconsin, c. 1970

                by PhilJD on Tue Feb 23, 2010 at 03:37:21 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

      •  Reply to Leftinaerospace (0+ / 0-)

        Left. -- I think you're missing the post's point, which is that Johnson stood on principle and didn't let conservatives of any party weaken his bill.  He even let it split his party, weakening it, as he famously remarked, for a generation.  J. choose country, and history, over party, and the country never went back.  

        Of course, J. is roundly condemned by mainstream opinion for being mean, nasty, etc. etc.  That he may have been on occasion.  He was also wrong, on occasion.  What he undeniably was, almost always, was effective.  Ruthlessly effective.  Think Reagan.  No, actually, think Medicare.  That's how good Johnson was.  The fact that our current Demo party leadership - starting with the WH - looks set to fail us on even a modest extension of Medicare to age 55+ FORTY YEARS LATER just shows how weak, or how duplicitous, our leadership has become.

        TrueDelphi is right.

      •  Had we a tough acting Presdient who started out (0+ / 0-)

        with a strong position, and who announced that the final bill better contain provisions for Single Payer Universal HC, or else have a public option, perhaps the vote tally might have been different.

        Instead we had a President who made no strong statements last year, saying continually that we needed to see what would be in the final bill. (And  it was noticeable that he refrained from promoting the Single Payer Universal Health Care meme.)

        That meme, btw, was one that he offered to the voters of Illinois in 2004 when he ran for the Senate. "Single Payer Universal Health Care is the best and most logical solution to the health care crisis. But to get there," (interruption by applause) "but to get there, we will need a majority in both the House and the Senate, and a Democrat in the White House." Barack Obama 2004

  •  LBJ FAILED (4+ / 0-)

    in the 50s when he was Majority Leader.  The Civil Rights Bill of 1056 FAILED miserably.  Many historians point out that "LBJ" was a myth.

    "Nothing in all the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity." --M. L. King "You can't fix stupid" --Ron White

    by zenbassoon on Tue Feb 23, 2010 at 01:18:39 PM PST

    •  Baloney - (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      dhfsfc, DarkestHour, PhilJD

      The congressional actions in the 1950s may have been meager, but LBJ but his presidency on the line for civil rights.

      So you are plain wrong.

      •  The myth is about LBJ's "powers" (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        sebastianguy99

        as an arm twister, especially when he was Majority Leader.  I'm not saying he didn't push for it, I'm just saying that his arm twisting powers have been blown a bit out of proportion.

        "Nothing in all the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity." --M. L. King "You can't fix stupid" --Ron White

        by zenbassoon on Tue Feb 23, 2010 at 02:08:20 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

    •  Facts have no place here (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      sebastianguy99

      when there's poutrage to be had!

      •  So you are going 2 perhaps show us some of (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        dhfsfc, PhilJD

        These "facts"?

        So please go ahead and do so.

        Please explain how having NO examination or curtailment  of the huge increases in insurance premium costs but instead putting together legislation that ignores these increases is going to help the average working stiff?

        And what about the penalties? ONE HUNDRED AND SIXTY SEVEN BILLION bucks worth. (Well, that was from the OLD bill that asked for only 2 percent in penalties - apparently the new bill will ask for 2.5% in penalties.)

        By the way, the cost to the USA for its ongoing wars is exactly one hundred and sixty nine billion bucks. As voted on in December 2009. So our penalty monies will provide for those wars and their expansion.

  •  Obama working to throw HCR under the bus (7+ / 0-)

    I say that for a reason. Look at what he's just done:

        The President’s new health care bill does not include a public option, but it does increase the maximum penalty for failure to comply with the mandate to buy health insurance, which rises from 2% to 2.5% of annual income (PDF).
         But for months now, polling has shown that a mandate with no public option is an extremely unpopular combination. The annual penalty for failure to comply makes it even more unpopular in swing districts.

    Taking the most unpopular part of the bill and making it worse is not a method for passing a bill. It makes it most difficult for the most vulnerable Democrats in Congress.
    The public is very much against the mandate. I know I sure am. I want this current bill to go down to defeat.

    "The people have only as much liberty as they have the intelligence to want & the courage to take." - Emma Goldman

    by gjohnsit on Tue Feb 23, 2010 at 01:20:53 PM PST

    •  He probably has to take the most unpopular (6+ / 0-)

      Part of the HCR bill and make it worse.

      That is what he has promised to his Wall Street, Big Insurance Interest friends.

      Anyone who calls Tim Geithner a "good buddy" cannot be trusted to do right by the average citizens of this country.

      He runs as a Progressive - look up the YouTubes dating back to October 2008, especially any related to his performances in Wisconsin.

      And mark my words, he will trot out his "progressive" persona in 2012.

      But for now, he assists legislation that favors the Big Corporations.

      •  Truly change that we were (0+ / 0-)

        idiots to believe in. Obama talks the talk, but can't walk the walk. We blew 2008 big time.

        "Victory means exit strategy, and it's important for the president to explain to us what the exit strategy is." - George W Bush

        by jfern on Tue Feb 23, 2010 at 02:16:38 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

    •  HEALTH SECURITY ACT OF 1993 (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      gjohnsit

      KEY PROVISIONS OF THE HEALTH SECURITY ACT OF 1993
      from Karen Pollitz, Georgetown University Health Policy Institute

      1. Universal Coverage through a Federal Entitlement and an Individual Mandate

      Individuals must pay roughly 20% of health insurance premium
      Liability capped at 3.9% of income
      ...

      1. Subsidies for Families

      Premium subsidies pegged to average cost plan
      Full premium subsidies to 150% FPL; phase out at 250% FPL

      ....

      1. Standard Benefits

      • Hospitalization
      • Physician services
      • Mental health
      • Maternity
      • Prescription drugs
      • Preventive services
      • Routine vision care
      • Routine dental care
      • Approved experimental therapies
      • Cost sharing: $200/$400 annual deductible
      20% coinsurance (or $10/visit co-pay)
      $1,500/$3,000 out of pocket limit
      separate $250 Rx deductible
      separate $50 dental deductible
      • Wrap-around EPSDT for low income kids
      • Benefits established in law; updated by National Health Board

      Employer premiums/mandate: * 80% of weighted average plan premium * Fixed per enrollee regardless of plan choice * Capped at 7.9% of payroll; 3.5% for low-wage small firms

      • Health Plans annually bid premium to Alliance for covering standard benefits
      • Target premium is known to bidding plans in advance
      • Range of bids acceptable as long as weighted average premium < target * If plans overbid, opportunity to re-bid lower amount * Otherwise, Alliance institutes mandatory premium reduction * Alliance also develops provider fee schedule that can achieve target premium level. Premium reduction is backed by provider fee schedules to yield required savings

      http://www.allhealth.org/...

    •  Right. Obama wants to kill his signature issue (0+ / 0-)

      What kind of idiocy is this? He spends nearly all of his political capital just to kill it in the end. Right.

  •  Congratulations in playing into Republican hands (4+ / 0-)

    I imagine a tea-partier or Red Stater reading this diary and posting on Red State and saying the left is in shambles.  Let's not give them the satisfaction.  Let's pick ourselves up and get behind Obama and the Democrats and help/force them get their agenda moving again (and have the media actually cover it).

    http://www.dailykos.com/...

    •  Lemmings (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      corvo

      please line up to the left

    •  You know something, (6+ / 0-)

      The truth is the truth is the truth, and if it hurts, well, it still needs to be said.

      Obama came into office with a 62% mandate for real change. And Seventy six percent of All Americans wanted some tyope  of pulbic option. Hw did he manage to give taht all away?

      Instead we have a continued war in Afghanistan, a Health Care Reform bill that is a giveaway to the Big Medical Interests, and now there is talk about Social Security being "reformed."

      I am sorry but I could care less whether the truth in this case falls on the right or the left side of the discussion column.

      Just as my RW neighbors absolutely refused to hear how their Georgie Boy's war in Iraq was a mess, and they clung to the notion that the "Mission Accomplished" banner was meaningful, now some Democrats continue to support a WH that has done nothing but turn its back on the average citizen.

      But the ranks of the "True Believers" fall every day, as the "recovery" is not happening except for those on the insider track of Wall Street and the Big Medical and Military defense offices.

      I am only the messenger. If we get snookered by the RW, it is because this President has lied. lied and lied. And Americans do not tolerate that. George the Elder was undone for one simple unfulfilled promise - "Read my lips, no new taxes."

      This President has not kept so many campaign promises it would take an encyclopedia to list them all. He ran as a Progressive, and he has the most snake oil conservative, appointees that have ever been hidden inside a Democratic Administration. Rahm, Geithner, Mike Taylor, Valseck, to name just a few.

      •  Overstating just a bit, don't you think? (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        sebastianguy99

        I'm no blind follower, trust me.  But, I don't think it is constructive to ignore his achievements just to fuel your frustration.  He has done a lot so far, and his administration has not turned "its back on the average citizen."

        http://mediamatters.org/...

        Look, he's a year into the job, and like all of us, he's getting better at his job as he learns.  I think he's had a good last month and is beginning to learn some bitter lessons and implement some new strategy.  Let's not give up just because things haven't gone our way so far.  If this were a baseball game, we're essentially in the bottom of the 3rd inning of his first term.  

    •  Sorry, but what a load of b.s. (4+ / 0-)

      Congratulations in playing into Republican hands

      Criticizing Democrats = "playing into Republican hands."  Never true, and seriously past getting old.  It's a Beltway recipe for passive democracy.

      I imagine a tea-partier or Red Stater reading this diary and posting on Red State and saying the left is in shambles.

      Big goddamned deal, some rightwing blogger says something.  You know what?  They're saying it anyway.

      Sure, work for better.  Don't give up.  But let's understand the true state of things:

      Let's pick ourselves up and get behind Obama and the Democrats and help/force them get their agenda moving again (and have the media actually cover it).

      This diary may be overly pessimistic, but at some point you have to know the difference between the "help" and the "force" part of what you said.  Part of the pressure you apply with "force" is to call politicians out, IN PUBLIC.   If some dumbshit rightwinger on a blog sees it, who cares?... we see them doing it to their politicians too.

      Democracy is messy, but silence isn't an option.  And "helping the Republicans" is a tired argument.  Never true, and just a blunt instrument to shut up fellow Democrats.

      Fox "News" = Republican PRAVDA.

      by chumley on Tue Feb 23, 2010 at 02:34:38 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Disappointed (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Cassandra77, corvo, DarkestHour, Clarknt67

    I,  like many here on Kos --donated, campaigned and voted for Obama,  but we were not paying enough attention I guess.  While still a Senator he said he was against bailing out Wall ST.  and then turned around and voted for the damned thing with no oversight or strings attached.  So ---this "No Public Option" really should not surprise us.

    •  Ah (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      sebastianguy99, Tortmaster

      So let the economy crash and burn because you have a hard-on for hating Wall Street?

      •  So dig a deeper hole (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        corvo, Clarknt67

        because he has a D after his name and it must be wonderful then?

        •  Much like the griping tea-baggers (2+ / 5-)

          I've seen no alternate solutions from the half-witted hippies here who seem to think sticking it to Wall Street is more important than staving off a second great depression.

          •  You talking to me? (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            corvo, trashablanca, PhilJD

            Half witted hippies?   No I am 66 years old,consider myself a progressive liberal and try to make a living buying and selling stocks.  We here at Kos are a disparate bunch of folks and making generalizations about someone commenting does not seem worthwhile.   I do not mean to disparage hippies--30 to 40 years ago the term might very well have applied to me.

          •  HR'ed for gratuitous insult... (5+ / 0-)

            that says way too much about you.

            "There's only one crazy person around here and I may hold up a mirror and you may see him in a minute!" - Howard Dean to Chris Matthews

            by Shahryar on Tue Feb 23, 2010 at 02:20:04 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

          •  fail (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            trashablanca

            I'm pretty much on your side of the argument, but this is just lame. (Yeah, I'm sure there are much harsher comments out there today that I never saw.)

          •  Probably some sort of bank bailout (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Betty Pinson

            was necessary. What sure the fuck wasn't necessary was the President's adorable little wink-wink to the bankers, as they paid themselves record bonuses with our money. Just like baseball players my ass.

            I've seen no alternate solutions from the half-witted hippies here who seem to think sticking it to Wall Street is more important than staving off a second great depression.

            We learn to love the struggle, and fear victory-- Me, Madison Wisconsin, c. 1970

            by PhilJD on Tue Feb 23, 2010 at 03:22:04 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  hahahahah (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              sebastianguy99

              "Obama is a corporate whore sellout who sold us out to Wall Street!"

              "What would you have done differently?"

              "uhmn, uhm... I'd have done the same thing BUT I WOULDN'T HAVE WINKED!"

              You see the same problem with health care reform. Nailing the insurance companies is more important to the DFHs than actually helping people.

            •  Actually people who have watched House (0+ / 0-)

              Finance and Oversight Committee's work on The Fall of 2008 Bailout understood that there was an entirely different way to operate rather than the mechanism proposed by Paulson and Bernanke. With the help of C span, many of us watched our elected officials  like Dennis Kucinich and Issa and several others speak about the Bailout as giveaway and how it was unnecessary. We "hippies" are quite aware that something needed to be done - and that something did not require an ub regulated, unsupervised Giveaway, but simply to refer to legislation already on the book.

              All Congress needed to do in the Fall of 2008 was to refer back to the same legislation that got this nation through the S & L crisis. That legislation specified that the monies needed to restore the economy be sent to state chartered banks in every region of the nation. And from there distributed to the small and big businesses that needed the monies.

              Instead we have spent the last fifteen months watching as Bernanke has offered as much as Thirteen or Fourteen Trillion bucks to only the Biggest of the Big Banksters. And Obama has apparently forgotten his pledge, made late October 2008, when he was campaigning in Wisconsin, that he would carefully watch the Bailout monies, and that if it proved that those monies were not reaching Main Street, he would step in and impose strict regulations and strict stipulations to see that the awesome sums of money were handled correctly. He pledged to do this his first year.

              Unfortunately, Obama instead decided that rather than getting regulations passed, he would simply scold the Banksters.

          •  Uprated for HR abuse (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Aexia

            Don't HR a comment by someone you are having a heated exchange with is one of the rules.

            It's tough to do, but we all have to learn to do so.

            That said, nothing in the comment deserves a HR, IMHO. If "half-witted hippie" cannot be used, then this site is in trouble.

            I think the best replay would be to present alternative solutions as asked.

            "Most people would sooner die than think; in fact, they do so." ...Bertrand Russell

            by sebastianguy99 on Tue Feb 23, 2010 at 03:44:53 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

      •  Crash and Burn? (5+ / 0-)

        I am aware that this is not strictly speaking addressing the issue of this diary----But----I see no proof that the biggest transfer of wealth from the citizenry to Wall Street helped the economy one iota. The demand for no-strings bailout reminds me of General Powell speaking at the UN before the Iraq invasion.  He ended up admitting he did not have the facts.   Just like our Congress either did not have the facts about where the  bailout money was going or did not care.
            It has a bearing on the diary in that after handing so much to Wall St. the people are concerned there is no money left for anything else.

        •  Oh there is the money. (4+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          denise b, corvo, DarkestHour, Betty Pinson

          It is called Social Security, and now that the Senators understand what this Administration means by the word "reform" they will be after the Social Security funds like flies on the proverbial.

          Last summer, while taping the Health care "Reform" committee assembled under Baucus, C Span left on its mikes during a break. And one Republican Senator said to another, "Well, as soon as we finish up these reform efforts, we should move on to reforming Social Security."

      •  Oh, so bailing out Wall Street (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        DarkestHour, viet vet

        was the only way from keeping the economy from crashing and burning?

        •  Yes (0+ / 0-)

          Oh you can tinker around the edges to make it better but on a whole, it was necessary.

          Most of the carping here about it (ie: the bonuses) resembles the complaints that we shouldn't have done the stimulus package because some of the money got spent in non-existant Congressional Districts.

        •  Several comments above this one (0+ / 0-)

          Of yours, I responded on how we could have propped up the economy without giving it all away to the Bankster/Fraudsters who put us in this mess to begin with.

          it's a long comment, but it does offer some decent information so you might scroll up and try it out.

          And if our beloved legislators were indeed going to do the Bailout, why couldn't they have inserted regulations and stipulations?

    •  Read my diary (0+ / 0-)

      Buck up, friend, this isn't over:

      http://www.dailykos.com/...

  •  So? (0+ / 0-)

    Shelterbox http://www.shelterboxusa.org/

    by TexMex on Tue Feb 23, 2010 at 01:38:02 PM PST

  •  Show me the votes (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    HeyMikey

    There is no evidence that the Voting Rights Act of 1965 passed on the sheer will of LBJ.  It was a widely popular bipartisan bill that passed with 79 votes from Republicans and northern Democrats, opposed only by a small minority of southern Democrats.  If there were genuinely 79 votes in play for a universal health care bill with a public option, a bipartisan bill would have been passed and signed last July.  Show me where the votes are, and then I'll concede the point.

  •  I can see the Republicans and ... (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    HeyMikey

    ... the Naderites will have a huge problem and lots of headaches when health care passes.  At that time, the media will be trumpeting the historic nature of the law, and then we will all realize, again, how Republicans and Nader voters have been dangerous to America.  The End.

    "Obama, Obama, I love ya, Obama; you're only November away" -- cute ginger kid

    by Tortmaster on Tue Feb 23, 2010 at 02:14:06 PM PST

    •  P.S. There is no way ... (0+ / 0-)

      ... I would ever lose "interest in the on going [sic] Health Care Reform Efforts."  Why would anyone lose interest in legislation that can save thousands and thousands of lives?  Why would anyone lose interest in a law that could make the lives of thousands better?  If you consider the likelihood that Health Care will continue to be improved in the years to come, then that could be millions of better and longer lives.

      And for what?  Cheap political gain.  

      "Obama, Obama, I love ya, Obama; you're only November away" -- cute ginger kid

      by Tortmaster on Tue Feb 23, 2010 at 02:19:59 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  I had totally forgotten how awful that Mr Nader (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      corvo, sneakers563, PhilJD

      Is. And how conveniently all problems political get passed on to him.

      Why that rotten Nader fellar obviously stole the votes in Florida! And he paid off the Supreme Court so they'd select George W.

      <sarcasm meant>

      •  I wonder what those votes in Florida ... (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        HeyMikey

        ... cost in terms of Iraqi, Afghani and American lives?  We'll never know, of course.  Unless we can build a time machine that goes backwards and sideways.  Maybe a Hot Tub Time Machine!  

        "Obama, Obama, I love ya, Obama; you're only November away" -- cute ginger kid

        by Tortmaster on Tue Feb 23, 2010 at 02:47:20 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  And hypnotized befuddled old folks (0+ / 0-)

        to fuck up an easily understandable ballot...

        Why that rotten Nader fellar obviously stole the votes in Florida! And he paid off the Supreme Court so they'd select George W.

        We learn to love the struggle, and fear victory-- Me, Madison Wisconsin, c. 1970

        by PhilJD on Tue Feb 23, 2010 at 03:28:26 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

    •  Because those are the ONLY two groups (0+ / 0-)

      that could conceivably show Obama anything less than blind adoration...

      I can see the Republicans and the Naderites

      We learn to love the struggle, and fear victory-- Me, Madison Wisconsin, c. 1970

      by PhilJD on Tue Feb 23, 2010 at 03:26:20 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Me too (0+ / 0-)

    After all, the evidence is rather sketchy that having big time access (i.e., being insured) to the US Health Care system really benefits health all that much (there's a discussion of this in the most recent issue of The Atlantic Monthly . . .).

    •  I'll check out the Atlantic M. article. (0+ / 0-)

      Thank you.

      •  I just got the paper copy yesterday (0+ / 0-)

        can't find it online as of yet . . .

        •  I read the article and thank you for the link -- (0+ / 0-)

          I agree with some of the hypothesis - that if you cannot afford to be part of the Health care system, then you also are not going to have your body tainted with the poorly reviewed drugs tha Big Pharma persuades our doctors to prescribe for us, and that those poorly reviewed drugs often maim or kill people.

          But on the other hand, researchers know that poor women tend to have a higher incidence of mortality if they have breast cancer. The women without insurance  may indeed be able to find out that they have the cancer, but without insurance, they cannot do anything about it so it metastasizes and kills them.

          And then there are cases like my spouse's - he was legally blind due to cataracts. Thank God we had insurance that paid for the $ 16K a piece operations or he would still be wandering around in the dark.

          So it depends on what conditions you are talking about. I have had several friends whose lives have initially improved because they are without employment and thus have no insurance. So instead of gulping down the anti-cholesterol meds, they diet and exercise. But then I think about my spouse and realize that for some of us, it is very good to be able to have insurance.

          Diabetics also need insurance - diabetes' meds run over $ 500 a month and many cannot afford that cost even if working.

  •  As President of Harvard Law Review... (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    MediaFreeze, dhfsfc, jgilhousen, viet vet

    his success was with pleasing both the liberals and conservative members of the review.  He was noted for having this knack.

    This has been his model his entire life.  He has never been one to confront, to take a position and then go for the win.  

    It never was in his nature.

    •  True that! (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      dhfsfc

      That's why when he campaigned as a change artist, some said that he had never demonstrated any such qualities in his career, but that didn't stop people from projecting all their hopes onto him.

    •  And he's running smack into the limits of that (9+ / 0-)

      knack, in terms of running an effective Presidency.

      At some point he has to stop worrying about pleasing people in the Belway, and serve the people who elected him.  The stakes are too high.

      The ironic thing is that being an effective President who helped people could make him a GREAT president -- one for the ages.  Instead he's working towards being an amiable footnote.

      Fox "News" = Republican PRAVDA.

      by chumley on Tue Feb 23, 2010 at 02:38:03 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  You wrote: (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Plubius

      "He has never been one to confront, to take a position and then go for the win."

      President Obama confronted Hillary Clinton and John McCain, and he won the Presidency of the United States.  "He has never been one to confront"?  That's about the stupidest argument I've seen.  

      He won the Presidency.  He went for the win.  Another stupid argument.  Geez.  

      "Obama, Obama, I love ya, Obama; you're only November away" -- cute ginger kid

      by Tortmaster on Tue Feb 23, 2010 at 03:03:40 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  I remember reading that article (0+ / 0-)

      with a measure of approval during the campaign. If I remember it right, the article was written by a conservative Harvard Law Review associate (and friend) of Obama's. That was then. Hasn't this "model" been undermined by the Real World now? On the Law Review, conservatives were apparently willing to cooperate with liberals in some ways, some of the time. What position could Obama take now, on anything, that would please both sides?

      I don't fault Obama for trying a strategy that had been hugely successful; I do fault him for sticking with it long after it had been shown to be futile and counter-productive.

      We learn to love the struggle, and fear victory-- Me, Madison Wisconsin, c. 1970

      by PhilJD on Tue Feb 23, 2010 at 04:19:16 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  He's not pleasing the public (0+ / 0-)

      Approval ratings aren't so great and they're not likely to improve with the limited health care plan he's proposing and pushing.

      That's his choice.  He's free to sell a pro-corporate agenda to voters if he wants.

  •  What, oh what, is it going to take. . . (0+ / 0-)

    for Obama apologists to admit he is a failure?

    Really, now he's a "winner" because he beat Hillary Clinton and McCain?  This is the LAMEST presidency I've ever had the misfortune of having to live through.  Yeah, I was gritting my teeth with rage every day of the Bush Presidency, because he was getting his bullshit through every day of his presidency.

    This guy?  He signals he's losing before he begins fighting.  What a lame a**!

    All politics is class-warfare.

    by dhfsfc on Tue Feb 23, 2010 at 03:35:25 PM PST

  •  So tell me (0+ / 0-)

    How long between was it between  November  1963 when LBJ took over and the summer of 1965...?

    If only we had a numerical system of calculation to figure that one out....

    •  The Civil Rights Act was not part of his agenda (0+ / 0-)

      Until he was voted into the Presidency in Nov of 1964.

      Then he managed to get it passed by the first week of July 1965.

      It was not part of his agenda in Nov of 1963, nor did he get that particular ball rolling during all of 1964.  

      I don't doubt that he avoided such an historical piece of legislation  until after the election cycle of 1964 was over.

      But he got what he wanted accomplished because he strategized and he worked the bully pulpit and he did not make "nice" with the enemies of his legislation.

      Obama would do well to put the Lincoln biography back on the shelf and read up on FDR and LBJ.

  •  I ignore EVERYTHING they say, and watch... (0+ / 0-)

    everything they do.

    It all becomes VERY clear.

    $1 trillion for 2 illegal undeclared wars and ongoing occupation.

    $1 trillion to bailout the Wall Streeters who destroyed the economy...including billions for their personal bonuses.

    $1 trillion in permanent tax cuts for the wealthy during the previous administration.

    No concern about the impact of these trillions on the budget deficit.

    Now, when there's talk...but no actions...of spending some money on healthcare or jobs...we can't afford it.

    It's not about the budget. It's much simpler than that:

    The rich and powerful are in charge. They care only about themselves. They've been able to seize 80% of the nation's wealth (produced by working people) and now they want the last 20%.

    Is there a better explanation?

    When a government violates the unalienable rights of the people, it loses its legitimacy.

    by Rayk on Tue Feb 23, 2010 at 05:04:39 PM PST

    •  That's what I do too. (0+ / 0-)

      I could care less about he mesmerizing speeches that are so gallantly made after it is too late to accomplish the needed reforms.

      i watch the appointments that he makes. I watch the actions that he takes.

      And I am convinced by his appointments and his actions that he is our first "Wall Street President."

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