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Step one: Make legal abortions all-but-impossible to obtain:

  • In 2005, there were 6 abortion providers in Utah. This represents a 50% increase from 2000, when there were 4 abortion providers.
  • In 2005, 93% of Utah counties had no abortion provider. 55% of Utah women lived in these counties. In the West census region, where Utah is located, 18% of women having abortions traveled at least 50 miles, and 5% traveled more than 100 miles.

Step two: Charge women who attempt to obtain illegal abortions with homicide:

The Utah Senate has joined the House in allowing homicide charges against expectant mothers who arrange illegal abortions.

Step three: While you're at it, write the law so broadly that it could apply to any miscarriage:

In addition to criminalizing an intentional attempt to induce a miscarriage or abortion, the bill also creates a standard that could make women legally responsible for miscarriages caused by "reckless" behavior.  

Using the legal standard of "reckless behavior" all a district attorney needs to show is that a woman behaved in a manner that is thought to cause miscarriage, even if she didn't intend to lose the pregnancy. Drink too much alcohol and have a miscarriage? Under the new law such actions could be cause for prosecution.

"This creates a law that makes any pregnant woman who has a miscarriage potentially criminally liable for murder," says Missy Bird, executive director of Planned Parenthood Action Fund of Utah. Bird says there are no exemptions in the bill for victims of domestic violence or for those who are substance abusers. The standard is so broad, Bird says, "there nothing in the bill to exempt a woman for not wearing her seatbelt who got into a car accident."

Such a standard could even make falling down stairs a prosecutable event, such as the recent case in Iowa where a pregnant woman who fell down the stairs at her home was arrested under the suspicion she was trying to terminate her pregnancy.

DougJ points to the crucial fact:

Miscarriage occurs in about 15-20% of all recognized pregnancies, and usually occurs before the 13th week of pregnancy. The actual percentage of miscarriages is estimated to be as high as 50% of all pregnancies, since many miscarriages occur without the woman ever having known she was pregnant.

At least one of the bill's sponsors is a woman, but nonetheless you have to ask: Do the people who voted for this law even know any women? Because it's easy not to realize how common miscarriage is until you've had friends who were pregnant. But once you've had friends who've been pregnant, you have friends who've had miscarriages. Friends who desperately wanted to be pregnant. Friends on fertility treatment and friends trying to get pregnant before the clock ran out. Also friends who hadn't been trying to get pregnant and maybe hadn't decided how they felt about it. But that doesn't make them criminals.

Maybe TV and movies have done us this disservice, since a convenient miscarriage is the favored way out of having a character choose to terminate a pregnancy. Maybe that's why these legislators want to criminalize miscarriage -- maybe they're just stupid enough to think that, like TV characters, real-life women only have miscarriages right after they get off the phone with the abortion clinic.

Or maybe they just hate women that much:

"For all these years the anti-choice movement has said ‘we want to outlaw abortion, not put women in jail, but what this law says is ‘no, we really want to put women in jail.'"

(Further discussion available in Amplify Your Voice's recommended diary.)

Originally posted to Daily Kos on Wed Feb 24, 2010 at 07:10 PM PST.

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Comment Preferences

  •  the problem is so much worse than this one bill (16+ / 0-)

    the republican supermajority is running amuck with state's rights, gun-loving, rich-loving and hating on wolves, women, gays, and education.

    huge political divide between the city and the state.

    "Gloom we always have with us . . . but joy requires tending." Barbara Holland

    by jlms qkw on Wed Feb 24, 2010 at 07:13:19 PM PST

    •  Here's what I wanna know: (14+ / 0-)

      If there is a miscarriage and it is deemed to NOT have been caused by "reckless behavior" on the woman's part...

      Can we indict God for the charge of murdering that innocent little unborn baby?

      More and Better Democrats

      by SJerseyIndy on Wed Feb 24, 2010 at 07:22:09 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Carlin on Conservatives, Life, and Women (14+ / 0-)

        These conservatives are really something, aren't they? They are all in favor of the unborn, they will do anything for the unborn, but once you're born, you're on your own! Pro-life conservatives are obsessed with the fetus from conception to nine months. After that they don't want to know about you, they don't want to hear from you . . . no neo-natal care, no day care, no head start, no school lunch, no food stamps, no welfare, no nothing! If you're pre-born, you're fine. If you're pre-school, you're fucked.

        Conservatives don't give a shit about you until you reach military age. Then they think you are just fine, just what they've been looking for. Conservatives want live babies so they can raise them to be dead soldiers.

        Pro-life... these people aren't pro-life, they're killing doctors! What kind of pro-life is that? They'll do anything they can to save a fetus, but if it grows up to be a doctor they just might have to kill it? They're not pro-life. You know what they are? They're anti-woman. Simple as it gets, anti-woman -- they don't like them. They don't like women. They believe a woman's primary role is to function as a broodmare for the state. Pro-life, you don't see many of these anti-abortion women volunteering to have any black fetuses transplanted into their uteruses, do you? No, you don't see them adopting a whole lot of crack babies, do you? No, that might be something Christ would do! And you won't see a lot of these pro-life people dousing themselves in kerosene and lighting themselves on fire. You know, morally committed people in South Vietnam knew how to stage a god-damned demonstration, didn't they? They knew how to put on a fuckin' protest. Light youself on fire! Come on, you moral crusaders, let's see a little smoke to match that fire in your belly.

        •  You want to solve this societal nonsense... (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          SJerseyIndy, Sister Havana, CMYK

          Follow Carlin's lead.

          Make a man's sperm just as sacrosanct as a woman's egg.

          You don't want to waste or destroy any eggs, you also have to ensure the protection of each and every single sperm.

          Let's start counting these puppies!  No more spilling the seed.  Think of the lives we'd save.

          Nobody held a wake for America's manufacturing industry, and now we are supposed to give a fuck about these assholes in the insurance business? - Playon

          by blueocean on Wed Feb 24, 2010 at 08:06:47 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  agreed (0+ / 0-)
            "..No more spilling the seed.  Think of the lives we'd save"

            or create if only we stop taking our viagras and spilling away all night...

            "When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in a flag and carrying a cross." Sinclair Lewis, 1935 --Talk of foresight--

            by tuma on Thu Feb 25, 2010 at 12:37:39 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

    •  It just gets worse in states like Wyoming (5+ / 0-)

      because the population increasingly trends older and male. The rural west gets abandoned in droves, as people move to hubs like Denver, SLC or cities in other regions.

      I miss Johnny Rook and Ormond Otvos.

      by Nulwee on Wed Feb 24, 2010 at 07:25:42 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  I'm not worried at all (0+ / 0-)
      sooner or later, the wife,daughter, daughter-in-law of one of these Taliban law-makers would find themselves victim of this God-inspired law. I'll just sit back and watch...

      "When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in a flag and carrying a cross." Sinclair Lewis, 1935 --Talk of foresight--

      by tuma on Thu Feb 25, 2010 at 12:34:57 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  How can they do this? Isn't it in violation (8+ / 0-)

    of the Roe vs Wade decision?  Is the law being made to test the decision?

    Find your own voice--the personal is political.

    by In her own Voice on Wed Feb 24, 2010 at 07:14:16 PM PST

  •  Remember UT Gov Huntsman is China ambassador. (5+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    G2geek, Nulwee, geomoo, jlms qkw, licorice114

    Huntsman would have vetoed the bill.  Huntsman has low profile but if ever GOP is going to return to sanity it would be guys like Huntsman, Crist and Schwarzenegger who would be the face of a sane GOP.

    I wonder if US would have been better served if Huntsman stayed GOP gov of UT as a voice of sanity in GOP vs. Obama grooming Huntsman for GOP presidential run in 2016.

    •  huntsman was the only thing (5+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Randall Sherman, jnhobbs, Jahiz, laurnj, CMYK

      standing between the crazee legislature and the people.  i feel like obama tossed us to the wolves when he exiled jon.  

      "Gloom we always have with us . . . but joy requires tending." Barbara Holland

      by jlms qkw on Wed Feb 24, 2010 at 07:17:29 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  While I understand that (4+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        G2geek, geomoo, jlms qkw, CarolinNJ

        notion, Huntsman and Romney represent a legitimate threat that Republicans could become executives again. Though better on abortion rights than most Republicans, they're ruthless on many of the bread-and-butter issues that Republicans use to oppress the weakm or even the middle class.

        Any excuse for them to make inroads right now is really dangerous. Better to leave them with the nuts like Rudy 9iu11ani and Sarah Palin.

        I miss Johnny Rook and Ormond Otvos.

        by Nulwee on Wed Feb 24, 2010 at 07:28:20 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  even the lds church has warned (4+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Nulwee, geomoo, CarolinNJ, CMYK

          that the social service cuts are too much

          polls repeatedly report that utahns are willing to pay higher taxes in exchange for less cuts.  

          yet the legislature whole-heartedly hews to the tea party/patrick henry mantra.  

          i am not holding my breath, but it would be refreshing to hear someone in the middle or near right to stand up and say that these things are wrong.  

          "Gloom we always have with us . . . but joy requires tending." Barbara Holland

          by jlms qkw on Wed Feb 24, 2010 at 07:32:53 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

  •  Fuck the Utah Taliban (11+ / 0-)

    When the [SHAREHOLDER] does it, it is NOT illegal.

    by plok on Wed Feb 24, 2010 at 07:15:28 PM PST

    •  My sentiments exactly! (3+ / 0-)

      They should be treated like gangsters.  We tried legislating morality once in this country (Prohibition) and my home town of Chicago is still feeling the impact of that era, nine decades after it started.

      This is what happens when you try battling rationally with crazed scum.  It can't be done.  The ante must be upped to protect liberty.

  •  At least one of the bill's sponsors is a woman (5+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    tmo, G2geek, Nulwee, Vita Brevis, CMYK

    Ah a Philis Schafly wanna be

    Afghanistan:Graveyard to empires-It's not just a bumpersticker

    by JML9999 on Wed Feb 24, 2010 at 07:15:31 PM PST

  •  Well, of course they know women. (6+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    tmo, G2geek, Ckntfld, Nulwee, laurnj, CMYK

    But they also know the prosecutors and a few specialists and know they would be never be investigated.  

    I'm sure each of the sponsors would insist that a prosecutor could and would refuse to investigate an occurrance involving a good family of non sluts and anti abortionists and a doctor who will give expert testimoney.

    Subsidies without cost controls, regulatory reform means that citizens get a little more awful insurance at a huge cost to taxpayers. Like Part D but worse.

    by Inland on Wed Feb 24, 2010 at 07:15:39 PM PST

  •  This is good news for Mitt Romney (7+ / 0-)

    "What is this country FOR if not to take care of its people?" Keith Olbermann

    by lisastar on Wed Feb 24, 2010 at 07:15:55 PM PST

  •  Well they can't put abortion doctors in jail... (12+ / 0-)

    ...who's left?  

    Many of these people see pregnancy as punishment for having sex anyway, but that's not enough.  They need to punish someone for taking that punishment away from a woman.

    How messed up is that?

    •  the girl who "caused" this bill (6+ / 0-)

      has been brainwashed and is now "glad her baby didn't die and is now in a good home"

      this poor girl in rural utah - pregnant and alone - boyfriend pressured for an abortion - so she hires a thug to beat her abdomen.

      thug went to jail, and legislature was pissed off that she couldn't be charged.  

      "Gloom we always have with us . . . but joy requires tending." Barbara Holland

      by jlms qkw on Wed Feb 24, 2010 at 07:19:00 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  It horrifies me that their first thought (5+ / 0-)

        was not to figure out how to change things so a young woman wouldn't feel that hiring someone to beat her up was her best option, but instead their righteousness that they couldn't send her to jail for attempted homicide.

        Jail is meant to correct. It doesn't seem that sending her to jail would have produced a better outcome.

        Fry, don't be a hero! It's not covered by our health plan!

        by elfling on Wed Feb 24, 2010 at 08:17:58 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

  •  Sometimes I really think things are hopeless (6+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    G2geek, Ckntfld, Nulwee, laurnj, tardis10, RhodaA

    When I read shit like this, I can't believe what is going on.

    Remember that lunatic woman at the town hall last summer, wailing, "I want my country back."

    That should be all of us.  

    She of course was batshit insane.  But when we read crap like this, I really do wonder what's happened to this country.

    Maybe breaking this country up into sane states and insane ones isn't a bad idea?  

    ======

    "Sick Around the World"

    http://pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/sickaroundtheworld/

    Watch it, send it along to all you know.

    by oxfdblue on Wed Feb 24, 2010 at 07:17:51 PM PST

    •  Wait a minute (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      G2geek, oxfdblue, laurnj

      Granted, we have Bachmann and Pawlenty.  But, we also had Wellstone, Humphrey, and McGovern.  OK, I also have a hidden affection for our own wrestler governor Ventura.  So are we sane or insane?

      Grandma's not shovel ready. (Stolen from Maddow show)

      by MNGrandma on Wed Feb 24, 2010 at 07:22:30 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  lol... (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        laurnj, MNGrandma

        How about a little mashuga?

        :)

        Truth is, even here in NY, we spawned Betsy McCaughey...who KO damned to hell tonight.

        ======

        "Sick Around the World"

        http://pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/sickaroundtheworld/

        Watch it, send it along to all you know.

        by oxfdblue on Wed Feb 24, 2010 at 07:36:02 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  Yeah, but the Bachmanns and Pawlentys are (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        CMYK, MNGrandma

        here, now.  Well, at least in the physical sense of "here," not the metaphysical....

        I tend toward pessimism at the moment.  The tenor of discourse and the idiots discoursing is the worst I can recall.

        •  So are (0+ / 0-)

          Klobuchar and Franklin.  Minnesota does seem frozen at the moment, politically and climate-wise, but Spring is coming, and we will have a new governor.

          Grandma's not shovel ready. (Stolen from Maddow show)

          by MNGrandma on Wed Feb 24, 2010 at 08:32:59 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  True enough (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            MNGrandma

            I was thinking nationally, not making the (obvious) connection that all these politicians are Minnesotans.  (D'oh!)

            Minnesota may be frozen momentarily, but I feel more hopeful looking at your state than I do at the nation as a whole.

      •  I've never forgotten (0+ / 0-)

        When Jesse "the Body" Ventura came to California to take up the Native American cause and ran ads attacking Governor Schwarzenegger's position.  So it was the pro-wrestler governor squaring off against the body-builder governor.  I thought: we've come to this?

        "Arguments are to be avoided. They are always vulgar, and are often convincing." -- Oscar Wilde

        by Villagejonesy on Thu Feb 25, 2010 at 08:02:03 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

  •  stunning as it is horrifying (7+ / 0-)

    a giant wtf invades the brain. yet as stated the problemis the mentality that is producing such an obsessive taliban out in our desert lands, american taliban indeed.

  •  All I have to say, (8+ / 0-)

    and I've posted it before because it's important, is that Utah has the highest online pornography usage in the U.S. In other words, it's the most f***ed-up state in the nation, except maybe for Texas. Here is the intensive study:

    http://people.hbs.edu/...

    By the way, can this be enforced since it is really a constitutional issue? Wouldn't federal law trump?

  •  Welcome to "Under the Dome" (6+ / 0-)

    with sealings and rusty coat hangers.

    Doesn't the US normally invade or bomb places like this?

    "I'd HR you for misspelling Bundt cake... but I'm not sure you'd see the humor in it." -wiscmass

    by mydailydrunk on Wed Feb 24, 2010 at 07:20:23 PM PST

    •  That's step 3. (5+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      snazzzybird, Vita Brevis, laurnj, CMYK, RhodaA

      Step 1:  Repeal DADT.

      Step 2:  Gays join the Air Force and chase all the Dominionists and other American Talibans the hell out.  This should be easy: just stare at them in the shower and watch them scream "EEEK! FAGGOTS!" and run for the hills.  

      Step 3:  Thus having liberated Colorado Springs, home of the USAF Academy, we give Cadets some new coordinates for target practice during flight training.  

      Step 4:  Contact the United Nations to ask if "nation-building" also includes "state-rebuilding" and if we can get human rights conditions required as part of the aid.  

      Step 5:  Hand out little booklets in Utah with common sentences translated to French, German, Spanish, Russian, and possibly Mandarin.  For example, "Excuse me, soldier, where can I find the new womens' clinic?":  "Est-ce que, soldat, d'où je m'excuse peux trouver des nouvelles la clinique femmes?", and "Mich, Soldaten, woher kann entschuldige ich die neuen Klinik der Frauen finden?", and so on.  

    •  Beautiful point taken. n/t (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      snazzzybird, laurnj, CMYK

      866-338-1015 toll-free to Congress in D.C. USE it! You can tell how big a person is by what it takes to discourage them.

      by cany on Wed Feb 24, 2010 at 07:38:47 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Women of Utah time to move to a blue state (7+ / 0-)

    "There is nothing wrong with America can't be cured by what is right with America" -Bill Clinton

    by SensibleDemocrat on Wed Feb 24, 2010 at 07:21:08 PM PST

  •  From the late '40s-early '70s (15+ / 0-)

    Many doctors believed that DES helped prevent miscarriages.  It did NOT.  What it DID do was cause teratogenic effects in the female offspring of those who took it -- specifically, a rare form of vaginal cancer, and defects in the uterus (rendering it t-shaped).  (No one thought to test it for teratogenic effects before it was handed out like M&M's, but that's a different story.)  

    My Mom took DES throughout her pregnancy with me.  I suffered several miscarriages (NONE WANTED) because of the physical defects caused by the drug she was prescribed.

    So I should be in jail?

    Shame on you, UTAH.  SHAME.

    "Let reverence for the laws . . . become the political religion of the nation." ~ Abraham Lincoln

    by noweasels on Wed Feb 24, 2010 at 07:21:13 PM PST

  •  Good Lord! (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    G2geek, CarolinNJ, CMYK, RhodaA

    Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter. Martin Luther King, Jr.

    by nandssmith on Wed Feb 24, 2010 at 07:21:36 PM PST

  •  I would definitely stay out of Utah (7+ / 0-)

    They have officially gone bat shit crazy.

    •  I agree with you, and I live here. (8+ / 0-)

      What I wouldn't give to get the fuck out. Maybe if the job situation gets better.

      Trust me, there are a few of us who are decent. Not many, but a few.

      Maybe, just once, someone will call me 'Sir' without adding, 'You're making a scene.' Homer J. Simpson

      by red mittens on Wed Feb 24, 2010 at 07:24:59 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  i love living in salt lake city (7+ / 0-)

        (specifically in city limits)
        my husband has a fabulous job.  it's a beautiful place to live and raise kids.  

        this legislative session is driving me to the edge of insanity.  the complete disregard for anything involving the constitution.

        did you hear what they did to education trust lands yesterday?  and they want to make the education lands trust fund pay for the lawsuit testing the constitutionality!!!!!!

        i told my husband that a sabbatical year in berkeley would be a welcome breath of fresh air.  

        "Gloom we always have with us . . . but joy requires tending." Barbara Holland

        by jlms qkw on Wed Feb 24, 2010 at 07:44:11 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  I think it's beautiful here, (5+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          jlms qkw, Vita Brevis, laurnj, CarolinNJ, CMYK

          I just wish the attitudes matched. Downtown proper isn't too bad. There are a lot of cool things about the city, you're right. The Avenues are one of my favorite places to go walk around.

          I did hear about that. It just absolutely makes me nuts. I often wonder how those cretins sleep at night.

          Ah-Ha! If you take that sabbatical, you might find yourself with a stowaway!

          Nice to meet you my friend, it's refreshing to know I'm not all alone behind the Zion curtain.

          Maybe, just once, someone will call me 'Sir' without adding, 'You're making a scene.' Homer J. Simpson

          by red mittens on Wed Feb 24, 2010 at 07:50:32 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  we live by foothill village (5+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            tmo, Vita Brevis, laurnj, CMYK, red mittens

            UT Voter is on faculty at the med school, ballerina x is in downtown sugarhouse.  we are not alone.  we are just few.  

            the best part of the obama camp day was seeing how many other people weren't , well, even more republicans.  

            "Gloom we always have with us . . . but joy requires tending." Barbara Holland

            by jlms qkw on Wed Feb 24, 2010 at 07:53:35 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  Ha! I would have loved to see that! (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              tmo, jlms qkw

              We should all have dinner or something one of these nights. Wouldn't that be fun? We could all commiserate with each other! I'm in Davis County, but always up for a trip to the city.

              Maybe, just once, someone will call me 'Sir' without adding, 'You're making a scene.' Homer J. Simpson

              by red mittens on Wed Feb 24, 2010 at 08:04:26 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

            •  My supercool, longtime, former (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              jlms qkw

              neighbor moved to SLC. They are BMXers and have a company that hand builds bikes: SuperCo.

              There are moments when the body is as numinous as words, days that are the good flesh continuing. -- Robert Hass

              by srkp23 on Wed Feb 24, 2010 at 10:02:57 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

        •  Is it possible to keep your kids away from (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          jlms qkw

          the crazies? How much have they infected the schools?

          There are moments when the body is as numinous as words, days that are the good flesh continuing. -- Robert Hass

          by srkp23 on Wed Feb 24, 2010 at 09:58:31 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  here in city limits, the schools are diverse (0+ / 0-)

            enough, it has not been a problem.  son's school is a title I place south of downtown.  daughter's school is in our neighborhood, but close enough to the University.  

            i hear stories from time to time that things are different out in the burbs.  

            our former sister-in-law is LDS, and my kids have 3 lds cousins.  and we have lds neighbors on both sides, and across the street.  it really hasn't been a problem - i don't know if that will change in junior high and high school or not.  

            "Gloom we always have with us . . . but joy requires tending." Barbara Holland

            by jlms qkw on Thu Feb 25, 2010 at 02:48:08 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

      •  Utah is an Interesting Place (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        red mittens

        Always a surprise around every corner.

        Fry, don't be a hero! It's not covered by our health plan!

        by elfling on Wed Feb 24, 2010 at 08:20:44 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  That this should be a compliment is strange, but (0+ / 0-)

        I hope you get out of where you are.

        "Arguments are to be avoided. They are always vulgar, and are often convincing." -- Oscar Wilde

        by Villagejonesy on Thu Feb 25, 2010 at 08:04:09 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

  •  time to fight. (6+ / 0-)

    Selective boycott.

    We don't want to hurt progressives who for whatever reason are trapped in a loony bin the size of a large state.  So:

    First of all, we need to call on businesses in Utah to publicly condemn the law.  Those that don't, and don't have some other pretty clear and verifiable indication of a progressive track record (e.g. candidate contributions or other), boycott.  

    Second, look up the donors to the bastards who introduced this and who voted for it, and find out if any of them are business owners:  boycott.

    Court fight.

    This needs to go to the USSC on the first possible opportunity.  No doubt there will be organizations such as Planned Parenthood and ACLU that are willing to take the case and provide whatever legal support they can.  

    Those organizations need our support, which means donations.  Donating to their Utah branches will make it pretty darn clear what the donations are intended for, even if the national orgs can't take "earmarked" donations for specific battles.  

    Publicity.

    (All rights released: use freely)

    Bumper stickers / T-shirts:  

    "UTAH: Have a miscarriage, go to prison.

    "Does the state own your uterus?  Only in UTAH."

    "Keep UTah out of my UTerus!"  

    Radio & TV ads that can run nationwide:  depiction of a woman being arrested in the hospital ER for going in to get help after having a miscarriage.  

    I'll probably come up with more of this stuff and will post later.  

  •  Thanks for FPing this (5+ / 0-)

    I hope we can start a movement to boycott the damn state.  Yes, I know that can hurt low-income people, service workers and such.  But how else can we reach the state's powers-that-be except by saying "I'm not spending my money at your ski resorts, your canyon lands, etc."  

    •  Unseen industries (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      tmo, elfling, G2geek

      I'm a crafter. I make a LOT of papercrafts and own a boatload of tools. And it galls me but, all roads lead back to UT. Memory crafts ( ie scrapbooking etc.) have a long history in the Mormon faith. Offshoots from all of those products abound and grow by the day. People (like my husband used to) can laugh it off as "oh it can't be that much" but HA!

      Industry sales are in the billions ( $2.55B in 2009 ). One company that makes a lot of stuff I use is Provo Craft:

      No. 5 PROVO CRAFT
      Revenue in 2008 $250,654,871

      and a lot of the downstream and side by side businesses are run by women for women. Almost every craft blog I frequent ties back to the LDS church, and while I go there for ideas and most of the time I try not to let it bug me, reading stuff like this it does because I'm supporting it. So that's my moral dilemma, but I just wanted to highlight that it's about more than just boycotting skiing.

      Our real adversaries are not each other

      by Vita Brevis on Wed Feb 24, 2010 at 07:36:58 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Here's something you can do: (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        mike101, Vita Brevis, CMYK

        You can make a real and serious difference here:  

        You can start to move your online community away from doing biz with Utah.

        1.  Seek out alternative sources for tools and materials and PUBLICIZE them.

        I'm completely ignorant of the entire range of crafts/hobbies/artforms you're referring to, but I have to believe that the stuff you use is available one way or another from non-Utah/non-LDS sources.  Most crafts, hobbies, and art forms that are not dependent on specific brands of stuff, involve things that are substitutable.  The more they involve things you make yourself by hand (as opposed to high-tech components such as radio control units for model aircraft), the more likely there are substitutes.  

        Get on the various blogs and start posting about those alternatives sources.  

        Set up new userIDs on those blogs if needed, where you can take up the "conversation" with yourself by saying such things (with the new userID) as "oh good, after Utah passed the 'have a miscarriage, go to prison' bill, I'm looking for another place to buy (whatever)."

        1.  Start your own blog for progressives who are into these activities.  

        Actively seek to control your advertising content by running ads (free if needed, and of course endorsements) for non-Utah sources of tools & materials.  

        Find ways to sprinkle progressive opinion into various topics on the blogs.  

        Try to keep it G-rated so you can do outreach to fence-sitters.

        Find some aspect in which you can demonstrate real excellence, and make the blog a magnet for people who are into that aspect.  Best of all if it's something you can use to "rob" constituents from the blogs that are tied to LDS.

      •  How can we find you some non-loony (0+ / 0-)

        paper crafters and products? They must be out there!

        There are moments when the body is as numinous as words, days that are the good flesh continuing. -- Robert Hass

        by srkp23 on Wed Feb 24, 2010 at 10:04:52 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

  •  Too bad (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    SammyJames, laurnj, CMYK

    it is Utah that has the most beatiful national parks. Otherwise, I would never, ever go there again.

    •  I've never been there -- (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      laurnj, RhodaA

      -- it's too bad that they have beautiful national parks. It isn't like we don't have beautiful national parks in better states though -- like a few miles west in Nevada and California, for instance...

      Because government isn't the solution to our problems -- it IS the problem (and now you have cholera).

      by SammyJames on Wed Feb 24, 2010 at 07:30:19 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  Changed my mind (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      G2geek, CMYK

      I'll go to Yosemite or Carlsbad Caverns instead. Santa Fe is also great.

      •  the town of Carlsbad (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        CMYK, RhodaA

        is not exactly progressive central. But the caves are fantastic.

        •  I was going to say (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          decembersue, Thinking Fella, CMYK

          Carlsbad, New Mexico is pretty much more of the same old universe, with, I must say, a nice river running through it.

          Roswell wishes it were another universe.

          Southeastern Utah is another universe - it is beautiful and strange and the first time I drove through I felt like I was driving through my own abstracted landscape paintings. The land there is stunning.

          That said, calling Utah crazy does not do this issue justice. What they are proposing is an all-out war on living women. First of all, abortions ARE legal according to the constitution, last I heard anyway. Secondly, anything can cause a miscarriage, including not doing anything special. Sometimes they just happen. This is part of life. These anti-abortion folks are so anti-life it's not even ironic anymore. It's tragic. It's the utmost of cruelty.

          Bright Pink Smile - a different sort of art blog

          by asterkitty on Wed Feb 24, 2010 at 08:10:14 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

    •  Um, wait a dog-gone minute! (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      CMYK
      I couldn't disagree more, but I would agree they have some of the best storms (along with W. Texas).

      866-338-1015 toll-free to Congress in D.C. USE it! You can tell how big a person is by what it takes to discourage them.

      by cany on Wed Feb 24, 2010 at 07:55:33 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  beauty is in the eye of the beholder. (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      asterkitty, CherryTheTart, CMYK

      For example could you look at a particular food you enjoy, in quite the same way, if you knew it was produced with slave labor?   That visceral feeling of disgust would creep in and make the prospect of eating it vaguely distasteful, like having to eat moldy bread or drink curdled milk because that's all that's in the house at the moment.

      Every time you think about going to Utah, you're going to face a conscience battle.  The vision of women going to prison for having miscarriages will haunt you and make the prospect of spending money in the state distasteful.

      The question is what you do about that.

      Push the "override" button and choke back the puke reflex?

      Or be consistent with your values, go somewhere else, and enjoy yourself with a clean conscience?  

      •  Utah is an amazing place (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        CMYK

        and I mean that in the most literal sense, amazing. It surprises me every time I have been there.

        Yes, there are LDS faithful - some of whom are good, honorable, lovely people, and some who are close minded and difficult. And there are the FLDS, who manage to oppress women, but also men, in their little hidden corners, and who would prefer if you didn't even stop for gas.

        But did you know that Salt Lake City has one of the largest gay communities in the US? Or that their former mayor, Rocky Anderson, is extremely progressive, and was affiliated with Planned Parenthood and the ACLU, and supports gay marriage?

        And the geology is breathtaking. There are few other places where you can drive 30 minutes from a major US city and be at a world-class ski resort. The national parks are varied and stunning. It is really an education to drive through Utah and see how quickly the terrain can change from one kind of wonderful to the next. Or how the eastern side of the Great Salt Lake supports people and trees and animals, but the west side is utterly and completely barren.

        I learn something new every time I go.

        Fry, don't be a hero! It's not covered by our health plan!

        by elfling on Wed Feb 24, 2010 at 08:31:12 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  that's why I said *selective* boycott. (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Lefty Coaster, CherryTheTart, CMYK

          I don't want us to harm the progressive in Utah.

          I do want us to harm the rightie-winger theocratic arseholes who passed this monstrosity, and all the people who supported them.  I'd like to see all of those monsters bankrupted and a bunch of them put in prison for the kiddie porn that's probably on their hard drives.  

  •  BREAKING NEWS -- UTAH BECOMES THE FIRST (5+ / 0-)
    state in the UNION to LOSE ALL OF ITS FEMALE POPULATION!!!

    (Not true of course, but wouldn't it be lovely...?!)

    :D

    Because government isn't the solution to our problems -- it IS the problem (and now you have cholera).

    by SammyJames on Wed Feb 24, 2010 at 07:24:41 PM PST

  •  And of course no one would lie or (7+ / 0-)

    falsely accuse a woman of an "intentional miscarriage" right? I mean I can't imagine a husband or boyfriend wrongfully accusing a woman of engaging in reckless behavior should she naturally miscarry (or should he actually be the cause of the miscarriage) . Nope never happen.

    Just like rape victims have had to re-live the worst experience of their lives, they're now going to make women who miscarry do so.

    We're going backwards in time.  

    Our real adversaries are not each other

    by Vita Brevis on Wed Feb 24, 2010 at 07:25:01 PM PST

  •  Make sure Rachel gets this (6+ / 0-)

    rachel@msnbc.com

  •  This PISSES me off to no end (5+ / 0-)

    and it doesn't seem right on so any levels.
    The fetus is not legally a person so how can it be a homicide?

    If they do decide to legislate women's behavior where do they draw their line in the sand?
    What if she exercises? Is she criminally liable if she miscarries while running?
    And who exactly are these pregnancy police?
    Is the  father to be's behavior equally scrutinized and potentially legislated??
    Those Mormons :)

    •  no doubt that part of the point of (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Sister Havana, CMYK, LiberalATX
      requiring a death cert for a fetus is to advance the "person" category.  

      what's next, dead menstrual eggs?

      and of course, no count on sperm.

      LDS Elders come in one gender, obviously.  Now, what will the women do or not do?

      866-338-1015 toll-free to Congress in D.C. USE it! You can tell how big a person is by what it takes to discourage them.

      by cany on Wed Feb 24, 2010 at 07:42:56 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  don't forget: masturbation is genocide. n/t (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        CMYK
        •  That doesn't seem to be an issue (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          G2geek, CMYK
          in this case.

          Apparently, in UT, it's all the wimmins fault.

          866-338-1015 toll-free to Congress in D.C. USE it! You can tell how big a person is by what it takes to discourage them.

          by cany on Wed Feb 24, 2010 at 08:23:14 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  yes but we have to introduce companion bills. (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            CherryTheTart, CMYK

            Every time one of these misogynistic monstrosities comes up, we need to introduce a companion bill:  wanking is genocide, lop off the weewees of men who commit rape or incest or child molestation, etc. etc.  

            Just to rub their snotty noses in it.  

            •  And so you are saying that the men of UT (0+ / 0-)
              (the vast majority, most of them LDS) and the women (mostly LDS) would actually advance such a bill?

              Dream much?

              866-338-1015 toll-free to Congress in D.C. USE it! You can tell how big a person is by what it takes to discourage them.

              by cany on Wed Feb 24, 2010 at 09:45:28 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  all it takes is one legislator... (2+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                CherryTheTart, CMYK

                ...to propose it, accompanied by some appropriate conservative-sounding rhetoric.  

                Then watch the fireworks.  

                •  excuse me for pointing out the obvious, but (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  G2geek
                  why aren't VOTERS doing this?  

                  You know all that... power to the people "you are the reason" rhetoric?

                  since when do we rely on legislators to up the anate?

                  did i somehow miss something in 56 years?

                  866-338-1015 toll-free to Congress in D.C. USE it! You can tell how big a person is by what it takes to discourage them.

                  by cany on Wed Feb 24, 2010 at 10:22:21 PM PST

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  are there ballot measures in Utah? (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    CherryTheTart

                    If there are, sure the voters could do this.  

                    But it makes for better TV if a legislator introduces a "companion bill" because then the rest of the rightie-nuts have to go on record as to why they are voting for X and not for Y, and all that.

                    The goal is to force them to the point where they cannot possibly claim that there is any consistent logic in their behavior, and they have to lay bare their actual motives for all to see.  

    •  "life begins at ejaculation." n/t (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      CMYK
  •  Fight back: What's good for the uterus.... (5+ / 0-)

    is good for the PENIS too!

    So let's go finding various crimes against women and fetuses, for example rape, incest, child molestation, beating a pregnant woman, etc., and introduce bills that require as punishment, lopping off mens' "male attributes".*

    The compromise would be lopping off bollocks only, and the bare minimum compromise would be "chemical castration" for life (no surgery, just forced medication).  

    The point of this is:  Let's see how many of those legislators can stand the thought of doing to men what they seem so eager to do to women.

    And of course if it passes, we get to fight it in the USSC as cruel and unusual punishment, and then try an equal protection battle for the womens' half of the penis/uterus equation.  

    ---

    *Extra credit for the name of the TV science fiction series in which a male character objects to a toy figure of himself being made because it doesn't have his "male attributes."   Double extra credit for the name of the character.  

    •  Babylon 5 and that Centauri ambassador,right? n/t (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      julifolo, G2geek
      •  We have a winner! (0+ / 0-)

        Yes, the guy with the Russian sounding accident, who was talking with Sheridan about those dolls.  

        B5 was one of the most intelligent series ever to appear on TV, and as long as it was on broadcast (I don't have cable) I made sure to watch it every week once I discovered it.   Scrazynski (sp?) is a brilliant writer, he conceived the entire story arc one day in the shower and then had to twist arms to get it produced as he envisioned it.  He used to hang out online and interact with the viewers; we had some interesting exchanges.

        The other memorably brilliant TV series I've run into in recent years was Jericho, on CBS TV.   Life after nuclear terrorism breaks up the US, with extremely heavy references to the Bush regime including Halliburton, Cheney, and Blackwater.  

        http://en.wikipedia.org/...

  •  This country is truly going (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Vita Brevis, laurnj, CMYK

    bats**t crazy.

    Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter. Martin Luther King, Jr.

    by nandssmith on Wed Feb 24, 2010 at 07:30:47 PM PST

  •  That's because they're religious morons (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    laurnj, nandssmith

    They follow a stupid, made-up religion that's stupider than most made-up religions because, like with Scientology, we know the person who made it up!  I have met many lovely people who are Mormons, but it's just idiocy and people who believe it aren't really capable of self-government except in the most rudimentary way, and only among themselves.

    Enrich your life with adverbs!

    by Rich in PA on Wed Feb 24, 2010 at 07:31:48 PM PST

    •  Yes, and, of course, they're in big part (7+ / 0-)

      responsible for the anti-gay Prop 8 in California as well.

      I guess for those in charge in Utah the only people of value are White males - because they aren't real fond of minority people either.  

      The way they're treating their women it kind of reminds me of, well let's see, the way "terrorist" countries treat their women.  But of course, "terrorist" countries are bad, but Utah is "good".

      What a bunch of moronic, hateful hypocrites.

      Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter. Martin Luther King, Jr.

      by nandssmith on Wed Feb 24, 2010 at 07:36:57 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  it is beyond the religion now (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Vita Brevis, CMYK

      there are perfectly fine lds people who are democrats in utah.

      it's total tea party/patrick henry hatefest in the legislature this session

      i thank all ghods and fsm and ceiling cat too that the legislative session is limited in time, if not in scope.  

      "Gloom we always have with us . . . but joy requires tending." Barbara Holland

      by jlms qkw on Wed Feb 24, 2010 at 07:47:45 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Utah really pisses me off... (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    elfling, jlms qkw, Vita Brevis, CMYK

    If I didn't live here I'd say they were all fucking insane, but....I live here, and know too many good people residing along the Wasatch Front to say that.

    To believe without knowing is weakness; to believe because one knows, is power. Éliphas Lévi

    by Jahiz on Wed Feb 24, 2010 at 07:33:42 PM PST

    •  and park city and price and moab too? (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Jahiz, CMYK

      the little blue strand?  

      i think a significant portion of the population lives in an alternate reality.  

      "Gloom we always have with us . . . but joy requires tending." Barbara Holland

      by jlms qkw on Wed Feb 24, 2010 at 07:55:15 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  And Logan.... (5+ / 0-)

        But yes, there are pockets of liberalism here.

        Having been raised in a very small mormon town, I know intimately the crazed philosophy that exudes from the decaying corpse that is Mormonism. It is an infectious disease whose source was a disturbed young teenager with a penchant for mischief.

        The absurd breeds absurdity.  

        I choose to live here because I find my Utah to be that of Edward Abbey and Terry Tempest Williams. There is a physical beauty to this place that outweighs the political and social morass.

        I work a small farm in the North, my great grandfathers farm, and generational legacy. My ancestors farmed with thousands of acres, but we're choosing to become a permacultural experimental farm. There are people doing good work here, and it is my hope that in some small way we help to set the balance.

        To believe without knowing is weakness; to believe because one knows, is power. Éliphas Lévi

        by Jahiz on Wed Feb 24, 2010 at 08:08:12 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

  •  If the people of Utah wants this then... (0+ / 0-)

    more power to them.

    Look... you can't stop stupid people from doing stupid things. Utah has a population of a New York Avenue during rush hour. If they want to live that way, let them.

  •  The Bill I believe was (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    mike101, jlms qkw, Vita Brevis, CMYK

    the brainchild of conservative republican Carl Wimmer, its mentioned (As HB 12)on his facebook. At least that is what the bill link said.

    A lie is a lie even if everyone believes it. The truth is the truth even if no one believes it.-- Anon.

    by ekyprogressive on Wed Feb 24, 2010 at 07:35:38 PM PST

  •  Think of it this way... (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    laurnj, CherryTheTart, CMYK, RhodaA
    if women's rights groups can't/don't raise money around this and don't give this the attention it needs, then they need to be closed and new ones started.

    For God's sake, this is opportunity in the making.

    And if the UT dems don't grab hard onto this legislative nightmare, they are missing a key opportunity even given the state's demographics.

    We'll see.  We'll see.

    866-338-1015 toll-free to Congress in D.C. USE it! You can tell how big a person is by what it takes to discourage them.

    by cany on Wed Feb 24, 2010 at 07:36:43 PM PST

    •  the utah dems have almost NO power (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      CherryTheTart, CMYK

      the republicans have a super-majority and they march in unity.  

      shame on the national dems for abandoning the 50 state strategy.  and shame on the national repubs for letting the crazees take over their party.  

      "Gloom we always have with us . . . but joy requires tending." Barbara Holland

      by jlms qkw on Wed Feb 24, 2010 at 07:51:35 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  So if you miscarry (8+ / 0-)

    it's your fault, but if you get pregnant it's God's will.

  •  Many employers will love this (5+ / 0-)

    because they will finally have a law that supports their desire to fire women who are pregnant just because they are women who are pregnant.

  •  All women will report to jail now . (6+ / 0-)

    There will be no exceptions .
    Until you can account for all your eggs ,
    you will remain in custody .

    If you strike a match and light a fuse , don't be surprised when something goes boom .

    by indycam on Wed Feb 24, 2010 at 07:44:43 PM PST

    •  My friend moved to Europe decades ago (0+ / 0-)

      When she reads the news about America, she says to me: "I think that when a baby is born in America, it gets arrested"

      "Arguments are to be avoided. They are always vulgar, and are often convincing." -- Oscar Wilde

      by Villagejonesy on Thu Feb 25, 2010 at 08:08:11 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Do not judge the people of Utah... (5+ / 0-)

    ...by the lunatics in the Utah State legislature.

    These are farm-boy no-nothing idiots who wouldn't know a miscarriage from a threatened abortion.  Margaret Dayton should be ashamed.

    Every year we get this damned "message legislation" shoved down our throats..None of it is thought through...all they are doing is morale posturing.

    And practicing medicine without a license.

    I can't wait for the first test case.  The blowback from this will be strong.  Wimmer won't know what hit him.

  •  Another case of religion influencing the (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    ekyprogressive, laurnj, CMYK

    business of the state.  What's next?  I think I need a drink!

  •  If Utah had any balls they'd criminalize (4+ / 0-)

    ejaculation, too.

    If you've lamented the slipping morality of America while snorting cocaine off a male hooker's back during the filming "Jesus Camp", you might be a Republican.

    by The Gryffin on Wed Feb 24, 2010 at 07:45:23 PM PST

  •  Yeah, no kidding. (5+ / 0-)

    I am consistently amazed at the outrage when people hear about such things.  Have you been paying attention for the last twenty years?  These right wing nutcases have no empathy for anyone or anything.  All they care about is their world view and advancing their agenda.  They don't compromise and, frankly, why should they.  The left doesn't seem to have the balls to aggressively stake out their position.   Screw rational thought, call them what they are, busy body know nothings who ought to spend more time minding their own business.  

  •  Misogyny rules (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Back In Blue, CherryTheTart, CMYK

    women who naturally spontaneously abort, it happens , will be persecuted. It's back to the dark ages in Utah.

    If you want others to be happy, practice compassion. If you want to be happy, practice compassion. Dalai Lama

    by ohcanada on Wed Feb 24, 2010 at 07:57:23 PM PST

  •  That's only half the intent. (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    LNK, Back In Blue, CherryTheTart, CMYK

    "For all these years the anti-choice movement has said ‘we want to outlaw abortion, not put women in jail, but what this law says is ‘no, we really want to put women in jail.'"

    The other half is to make abortion so difficult that women die from illegal abortions. When abortion was legalized in New York State in 1970—for those with short memories, abortion was legalized in a few states before Roe v. Wade—maternal deaths dropped by 5,000. Back alley abortionists were put out of business.

    All restrictions on abortion do is increase maternal mortality and sterility. They do nothing to reduce abortions. The highest abortion rates in the world occur in nations that ban the procedure entirely; for example, most of the nations of Latin America where the Catholic Church is joined at the hip with the government.

  •  And we got to tell this country about Utah (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Lefty Coaster, CMYK

    `Cause nobody seems to know"

    Somehow, the absurdity, the disingenuous politics, I don't know.  I just keep thinking of this clever Randy Newman song.  Nilsson's terrific version isn't available, so here's a crappy one from Neko Case:

    Hope has never trickled down. It has always sprung up.

    by geomoo on Wed Feb 24, 2010 at 08:04:15 PM PST

  •  DougJ's crucial fact ... (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    elfling, mike101, CMYK

    Notes that miscarriage (a MUCH better framing of the term is 'natural abortion') may occur in as many as 50% of all pregnancies is almost certainly closer to the mark than the 15-20% number cited, but even that number is higher than all so-called 'elective abortions.' The significance of that? The sheer and utter BLINDNESS of the right to those fetal deaths, which are significantly more than those from elective abortions. It is more than blindness, it is hypocrisy, as they care NOTHING for 'victims' of natural abortion, they won't lift a finger (or vote for the spending of one red cent) to improve pre- and peri-natal health care. If they REALLY cared about saving 'lives,' they'd have to devote proportionate attention to natural abortion, and they don't. Many don't admit it even exists.

    But it is probably true that even in this country, with better health care than many countries in the world, the incidence of natural abortion is probably closer to 50%, if not higher.

    "The opposite of war isn't peace, it's CREATION." _ Jonathan Larson, RENT

    by BeninSC on Wed Feb 24, 2010 at 08:07:56 PM PST

  •  Will skiing while pregnant now be a crime in Utah (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Back In Blue, CherryTheTart, CMYK

    People really have very poor understanding of what causes miscarriage - which for the majority of cases appears to be genetic defects rather than something preventable. But still, if a woman was doing anything fun any time near the miscarriage, people will find a way to create blame.

    If you ate spinach and french fries for lunch, obviously the french fries were at fault.

    If you went skiing, obviously that was the problem.

    But if you were cleaning the house for a visit from the mother-in-law? Well, then I guess it was just bad luck.

    Fry, don't be a hero! It's not covered by our health plan!

    by elfling on Wed Feb 24, 2010 at 08:12:46 PM PST

  •  In this country, no surprise here. (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Back In Blue
  •  Pregnant Women traveling by mere passenger car (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    CherryTheTart, CMYK

    will be regarded as reckless.

    All pregnant Utah Women shall be transported in armored, egg shaped, heavily padded rooms on wheels, equipped with sirens and strobe lights. All provided by the State in partnership with the Mormon Church.

    "These old Wall Street boys are putting up an awful fight to keep the government from putting a cop on their corner." - Will Rogers

    by Lefty Coaster on Wed Feb 24, 2010 at 08:18:25 PM PST

  •  I am horrified. (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    CherryTheTart, CMYK

    And speechless.

    Yes we can! Yes we did! Yes we will!

    by Sister Havana on Wed Feb 24, 2010 at 08:25:33 PM PST

  •  Suggestions about Utah and miscarriages (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    CMYK

    Stage theatricals.
    One woman can go into hysterics at seeming strangers around her if they get too close or bump into her. "Don't touch me! I'm pregnant! What are you trying to do? Kill my baby? Help!"

    Consider interrupting the legislature's meeting with just such a seemingly innocent and correct but very loud and attention-getting distraction.

    Get testimony about pregnancy from all those women on the TV series "I didn't know I was pregnant"....

    But, first: DEMAND A COST-BENEFIT STUDY OF THIS LEGISLATION.
    How much will it cost the taxpayers and what is the return on the investment?

    Try harder to get a statement from the Vatican and from the Catholic Bishops and the Catholic League. Last I heard they declined saying what the punishment should be.

    And please stop with the name calling because without a basic show of civility it will be harder to get to the next level.

    For the best snark, Jesus' General:

    http://patriotboy.blogspot.com/...

    http://patriotboy.blogspot.com/...

    http://patriotboy.blogspot.com/...

    Dave Leach
    Coerced Childbirth Enforcer

    Dear Mr. Leach,

    Hmmm, "bort hunts?" Are you sure that's the most efficient way to go after OB/GYNs? Think about it. You can only shoot so many doctors. But if you teach Fetus-Americans to defend themselves, there's no limit to the number of OB/GYNs they could take out.

    Training them won't be easy. I know that from experience. I spent years developing tiny handguns for Fetus-Americans. Unfortunately, they have such bad hand/eye coordination and shoot/no shoot judgment, there is no way I could turn them loose in the womb with a loaded gun.

    But perhaps a weapon isn't the answer. Ninja training might be enough. I'm working on a video system that can show martial arts movies inside the uterus. Put the little Fetus-Americans in a ninja outfit and show them "Enter the Dragon" a couple of times and they'll be ready for battle.

    Can you imagine the fear that would be generated in the medical community if a ninja-cloaked fetus leapt out of a uterus, drove his stumpy little proto-hand into the doctor's ribcage, pulled out the his heart, and showed it to him before he keeled over? It'd be just like the movies.

    Or maybe we should just give them pointed sticks. What do you think?

    Heterosexually yours,

    Gen. JC Christian, patriot

    Media Reform Action Link http://stopbigmedia.com/

    by LNK on Wed Feb 24, 2010 at 08:29:06 PM PST

  •  Termination.............? (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    srkp23, CherryTheTart, CMYK

    This is waaaay out of my range of expertise but I think I heard some older women talking about how in Ye Olden Days just rubbing on the cervix (massage for a long time?) can start (premature) contractions.

    I do remember reading a c.1900 magazine article about a very guilty-ridden-looking couple who didn't know to practice what was then considered good 'hygiene'..........They had intercourse when the wife was in the first trimester, and it caused a miscarriage.

    Now THERE is a case I'd like to see Utah legislators discuss.

    If they like talking about sex so much perhaps activists could make it more entertaining and titillating for them to the point where they'll be ashamed they brought up the topic of reproduction.

    And to think that in the 19th Century one of the driving issues of the early Feminist Movement was the crusade for a woman's right to decide for herself to HAVE a baby, because in those days a husband could force a wife to have an abortion.

    Media Reform Action Link http://stopbigmedia.com/

    by LNK on Wed Feb 24, 2010 at 08:38:07 PM PST

    •  Yes! (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      LNK, CherryTheTart, CMYK

      Abortion induction, iirc. There was a movement before Roe, and even after, a chain of women teaching others how to help each other when there was an unwanted pregnancy. I remember reading about this in Our Bodies, Ourselves when I was in high school, iirc.

      There are moments when the body is as numinous as words, days that are the good flesh continuing. -- Robert Hass

      by srkp23 on Wed Feb 24, 2010 at 10:11:15 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  It was NOW that arranged the meetings. (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        srkp23, LNK

        We were not going to wait for abortion to become legal. Nurses and doctors came and taught us how to use a speculum to see the cervix and vagina and how to do a suction abortion safely. We practiced on each other.

        I used to be Snow White. And then I drifted. - Mae West

        by CherryTheTart on Wed Feb 24, 2010 at 11:10:07 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  TY for that bit of history. (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          LNK, CherryTheTart

          Were there other techniques? My vague memory was of a technique that didn't involve suction but massage and opening of the cervix that would lead to spontaneous abortion?

          There are moments when the body is as numinous as words, days that are the good flesh continuing. -- Robert Hass

          by srkp23 on Wed Feb 24, 2010 at 11:27:10 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  I am sure you are right. (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            srkp23

            But I do not have any specific memory of that. I try not to elaborate on the story of it all. The simple truth of that time is amazing enough. The times were florid and exciting enough not to need embroidery.

            I used to be Snow White. And then I drifted. - Mae West

            by CherryTheTart on Wed Feb 24, 2010 at 11:32:29 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  I thank you for participating in these trainings (0+ / 0-)

              I wonder if there are still such movements and networks in place for women who live in areas without access to abortion providers.

              There are moments when the body is as numinous as words, days that are the good flesh continuing. -- Robert Hass

              by srkp23 on Wed Feb 24, 2010 at 11:50:28 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

  •  A great comment... (4+ / 0-)

    Was wondering when this would show up on Kos.

    Here's a great comment from Balloon-juice:

    Could they just hurry up and imprison me for getting my period? This slow descent into lunacy is agonizing. I’d rather just go to jail now and at least not have to work a soul killing job while I wait for them to take away all my rights as a vagina-american.

    http://www.balloon-juice.com/...

  •  Some damn schmuck dumped herbicide in the creek (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Back In Blue, CherryTheTart, CMYK

    while trying to kill multiflora rose, and I kept drinking the well water on the farm. The nursery downstream lost all its fall vegetable and flower flats. We lost a baby that summer.

    Glad I don't live in Utah.

    Anyone who has the power to make you believe absurdities has the power to make you commit injustices -- François-Marie Arouet

    by CA Berkeley WV on Wed Feb 24, 2010 at 09:22:36 PM PST

  •  this is why elections matter (3+ / 0-)

    and why beating republicans in elections in every state and at every level, including the county level, matters.  

    it matters a lot

    Youth lives by personality, age lives by calculation. -- Aristotle

    by not2plato on Wed Feb 24, 2010 at 10:13:04 PM PST

  •  Polygamists' Heaven Criminalizing Miscarriage! (0+ / 0-)

    Utah will criminalize anything that offends Mormons -- it's a religious state, a Mormon version of Iran.

  •  Do Felons Vote in Utah? (0+ / 0-)

    If not, this is a perfect method of disenfranchising women.  I wonder how long it will take these people (and I use that term loosely) to round up all mestruating women on the suspicion that they are miscarrying.  Lock them all up, and let G*d sort it out.

  •  Well when you repress sex, it makes people horny (0+ / 0-)

    ...and they're probably counting on it.

    "Arguments are to be avoided. They are always vulgar, and are often convincing." -- Oscar Wilde

    by Villagejonesy on Thu Feb 25, 2010 at 08:11:46 AM PST

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