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Mississippi Republican Governor Haley Barbour tells CNN's Candy Crowley that it's no big deal that Virginia Republican Governor Bob McDonnell celebrated the treasonous confederacy without mentioning slavery (transcript):

Gah! It's hard to believe that a sitting governor would say those words, isn't it?

These Republicans are stuck so far in the past that they don't represent yesterday, they represent the day before the day before yesterday. Will somebody please wake up Haley Barbour and let him know it's 2010 and that it's not cool to deny that the treasonous Confederacy was fighting to protect the institution of slavery?

Oh, and one more thing. Barbour says it must be okay to honor the Confederacy because nobody has ever complained about Mississippi celebrating Confederate Day each April. Except one problem, Haley's claim is a lie. The holiday is in fact controversial in Mississippi.

Mississippi's events aren't embraced by everyone.

"I think it's unfortunate that the governor is so insensitive to the atrocities made against African-Americans in this country by the former Confederate States," said Derrick Johnson, president of the Mississippi NAACP. "As governor of the state with a higher percentage of African-Americans that any other, we would hope he would be more sensitive to them."

"We have always raised out opposition to any memorial day that would raise some type of positive light on the Confederacy that broke away from the United States," Johnson said. "We consider that treason."

If you want to go and wrap yourself in the Confederate flag, that's your prerogative, Governor Barbour, but don't go pretending like nobody thinks you're back assward racist for doing so. They do, and they're right.

Originally posted to Daily Kos on Mon Apr 12, 2010 at 07:30 AM PDT.

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Comment Preferences

  •  when he says Nobody (20+ / 0-)

    he means "Nobody he knows"

    George Bush is Living proof of the axiom "Never send a boy to do a man's job" E -2.25 S -4.10

    by nathguy on Mon Apr 12, 2010 at 07:31:14 AM PDT

  •  Al Qaeda has its American defenders too (7+ / 0-)

    We usually call them treasonists.  Remind me how the goals of the Confederacy and Al Qaeda were different again?

    Heck, even the fundie nutjobs like Bin Laden don't believe in actual slavery.

  •  Don't interrupt the opposition (12+ / 0-)

    ...when they're making a mistake.

  •  He's like the living, breathing mascot (13+ / 0-)

    for southern racist pigs.

    •  I know lots of old white guys (5+ / 0-)

      who are definitely not racist pigs.  Just sayin'

      Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction -- Pascal

      by RJDixon74135 on Mon Apr 12, 2010 at 07:40:45 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  That may very well be true, but (4+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        scribeboy, freelunch, Larin, blue aardvark

        I don't see anyone but old white guys championing the cause of the confederacy these days. Not all old white guys are racist, but there sure are a hell of a lot of racists who are old white guys. Just sayin'.

        •  I wish it were just us old folks (0+ / 0-)

          If that were the case, then it would be just a matter of a relatively short amount of time until we'd all die off and racism would be over. You probably see a lot of old white guys who are racists because it's the old people, like Haley Barbour, who have the power to get themselves an interview on CNN. But the dangerous fact is this: the racist right is loaded with young skinheads.    

          Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction -- Pascal

          by RJDixon74135 on Mon Apr 12, 2010 at 08:09:47 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  That's just it though, the young racists are (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            RJDixon74135, Jersey Jon

            pretty extreme in that many of them are out and out radical skinheads, whereas old racists come in many varieties and in most cases are your average run of the mill Joe. It's to the point where even the old racists don't know they're racist, they just think they're espousing the belief system they've had since childhood when Blacks were really second or even third class citizens, so no big deal. It's been my experience that racists my age (I'm 28) are either full blown skinheads or they're smart enough to realize how abhorrent their racism is and keep it to themselves. I say this as a Black female who's lived in Texas all my life. Even the white guys driving around with confederate flags on their gas guzzlers had sense enough not to utter a word of their racism around actual brown people or they'd suffer the consequences. You don't really see that with old racists, they still haven't grasped the fact that this isn't 1950 and you just can't be a proud racist in public anymore.

            •  Generalize much? (0+ / 0-)

              Everyone's different.  That's the point.  There are radical racists, old and young, benign racists, old and young.  There are old white guys, rich and poor, who look beyond color, and there are old black guys who can't see past a person's skin color.  The same is true of young white and black people.

              The problem is when someone categorizes people, and makes assumptions about who they are, based on superficial traits, like skin color or age.  

              Hill? What hill? No one said there was going to be a hill . . . . Was there a sign?

              by Jersey Jon on Mon Apr 12, 2010 at 09:10:15 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  Ok then. I hereby correct my post so as not to (0+ / 0-)

                generalize. I am referring only to the old and young racists I've encountered in my small corner of the world. I can't speak for all of the other racists, so your point is well taken.

      •  Agree....just sayin...;-) (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Larin
      •  Yeah, lets not smear all old white guys (0+ / 0-)

        Heck, lets not smear all white Southern guys, for that matter.

        What people need to get is that this is a bloody distraction.

        Why yes, I am Catholic.

        by ems97007 on Mon Apr 12, 2010 at 09:12:25 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  I'm a middle-aged white guy. (6+ / 0-)

      Barbour in no way speaks for me.

      Groucho Marx sings the new GOP motto: I'm Against It!

      by Jimdotz on Mon Apr 12, 2010 at 07:58:27 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  LOL, I said the same thing except (0+ / 0-)

      I put in "tired: old white guys" because they and their ideas and talking points are old, hurtful and stupid.

  •  Well, Barbour's out of running for 2012. (8+ / 0-)

    Not that he had a chance to begin with.  Might have had a snowball's chance in the primary.  But 0.00000 in the general.

    Results count for more than intentions do.

    by VA Classical Liberal on Mon Apr 12, 2010 at 07:34:30 AM PDT

  •  treason with slavery, treason w. out slavery (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Jed Lewison

    I don't see how they can win either argument... and still keep their far right positions.

    I have a sneaking sympathy for the Dorr war,  and a reflexive admiration for the Whiskey Rebellion.  

    I wouldn't have much in common with Davey Crockett and them at the Alamo if we talked on the issues.

    and I think the Gadsden Purchase was well... oversold.

    But I don't run around calling everybody else a traitor.  They do.

    It's not a fake orgasm; it's a real yawn.

    by sayitaintso on Mon Apr 12, 2010 at 07:34:31 AM PDT

    •  Remember this the next time they say (4+ / 0-)

      "Republicans are the party of Lincoln and the Democrats are the real racists!"

      Fight until we win. Then we can begin arguing about the details. - Kwickkick (RIP) 2009

      by RickMassimo on Mon Apr 12, 2010 at 07:42:38 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I guess they're a bit behind the times (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        RickMassimo, PeakRaider

        It may have been true when Wilson was president but not since then.

        The question now is if the Republican (Tea) Partiers will acknowledge that Lincoln or TR were Republicans.

        The US Senate is begging to be abolished. Let's fulfill its request.

        by freelunch on Mon Apr 12, 2010 at 08:40:56 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Teddy Roosevelt & His Big Stick Got Kicked Out of (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          roadbear, ems97007

          the Republican Party by the robber barons who he clubbed with it.

          Teddy Roosevelt won re-election as an independent because the people admired him for standing up to the richest bastards on behalf of the people.

          Obama should learn that history lesson instead of refusing to look back but concentrating on looking forward protecting his fat cat, thieving Wall Street buddies who he calls "savvy businessmen".  

          •  Not Quite (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            roadbear, PeakRaider

            TR was a Republican when he was elected on his own. He retired in 1908 and returned as a Bull Moose Progressive in 1912 because he was disappointed in Taft's work (though Taft was more progressive than all but Roosevelt and, maybe, Nixon of 20th Century Republicans). TR did better than Taft in the 1912 election but got Wilson, the worst Democrat of the 20th Century, elected.

            Taft became Chief Justice nearly a decade later and did reasonably well.

            The US Senate is begging to be abolished. Let's fulfill its request.

            by freelunch on Mon Apr 12, 2010 at 09:06:53 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

    •  nice one! i'm stealing that!!! (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      PeakRaider

      "Politics is like driving. To go backward put it in R. To go forward put it in D."
      --Tom Harkin

      by TrueBlueMajority on Mon Apr 12, 2010 at 08:07:43 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Having been born and growing up in nothing but (14+ / 0-)

    northern states, I have to say that I am absolutely dumbfounded that we're even having this discussion.

    Seriously, celebrating the f'ing confederacy?

    You may want "your country back," but you can't have it. - Charles Blow

    by blueyescryinintherain on Mon Apr 12, 2010 at 07:35:15 AM PDT

    •  I've tried to figure it out, too (5+ / 0-)

      and the only thing I've been able to come up with is that they truly think they can gloss over the whole "slavery" question and hold the Confederacy out as as some proto-Tea Party uprising founded in limited federal government and state's rights.

      Which only confirms my belief that most teabaggers truly are racist pinheads.    

    •  Northern states today are not immune to racism (4+ / 0-)

      In fact, the KKK has surged in Michigan over the past decade or so. I'd say it has more to do with intelligence and education than geography.

      Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction -- Pascal

      by RJDixon74135 on Mon Apr 12, 2010 at 07:50:19 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  But we don't have elected officials endorse them (2+ / 0-)

        Barbour thinks it is politically acceptable in Mississippi to celebrate slavery and the crimes of the insurrection.

        The US Senate is begging to be abolished. Let's fulfill its request.

        by freelunch on Mon Apr 12, 2010 at 08:42:44 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  In Northcentral Pensylvania, Racist Bigotry Rules (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        roadbear

        The Who's Who of Government, Business, & Industry is the underground Ku Klux Klan.

        All employers are "Equal Opportunity Employers dedicated to diversity in the workforce", but it doesn't show in the hirings.

        The Confederate battleflag is extremely popular here -- it's front license plates, rear windshield screens, bumper stickers, and flying up flag poles in people's front yards.

        This area is predominantly Republican full of straight-party-stupid voters (like the deep south) and Ku Klux Kristians.  Teabaggers are everywhere here.

        Illiteracy is 25% with an additional 50% marginal literacy so 3 out of 4 people read at or below a 3rd grade level.  A prison community.

        "judges" are disgracefully corrupt and dishonorable here.

        The "Fair Market Value" property tax reassessment in this half-assed county was rigged for the rich and privileged against the working poor by putting land assessments on a PER LOT rather than a Per Acre basis thereby making the largest land parcels the least valuable for taxaton purposes and the smallest land parcels the most valuable for taxation purposes.

        The area has been ethnically cleansed of liberals, but government-dependent drug rehabs have brought court-ordered, inner-city "influx" and a massive crime problem here (hard drugs, armed robberies, gangs, murders, burglaries) which the locals are trying to eradicate through denial of opportunity and civil rights violations.

        Civil Rights attorneys have been run out of town by the "courts" for challenging the establishment, and employers closed up rather than do the lawful thing.

        •  Pennsylvania: Alabama of the North (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          bleedingheartliberal218

          It dosen't get that name for nothing!

          •  Most Corrupt County in Pa. (0+ / 0-)

            Home of Bonusgate's Brett "$10,000,000.00" Thief" Feese (Republican "law & order" district attorney)

            and

            his successor Thomas "Louis DeNaples' bff" Marino, removed from the U.S. Attorney's position in 2008 for closely associating with known organized crime figures (Republican "law & order" district attorney and MDPa. "law & order" U.S. Attorney).

            Convicted wife-beating, deadbeat daddy and thieving magistrates.
            Convicted cocaine-abusing prosecutors.
            Casefixing, public record-stealing "judges".
            Perjuring, evidence-falsifying prosecutors.
            Public defender-beating, preliminary hearing cassette tape-stealing state cops.
            GOOD "CHRISTIANS" & "LAW & ORDER" FOLKS.

            You meet a better class of people in state penitentiaries than you do at the courthouse (predatory animals).

    •  As someone who grew up and lives in the South (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      RJDixon74135, sow hat

      I have a different perspective on all this.  A lot of people in the South still fly the Confederate flag, wear it on T-shirts, put bumper stickers of it on their trucks, etc.  If you ask them what it means, they would say it's about supporting their Southern heritage.  Its about being proud of being from the South.

      Obviously, you can't really separate the Confederacy from slavery but in the eyes of many people in the South, to this day, they still feel like the North had no right to invade them.  The argument is essentially, "Yes slavery was bad, but the North didn't have the right to tell us it was bad.  The North was racist too, just racist in different ways.  The Civil War wasn't really about ending slavery.  It was about subjegating the South."

      There is some truth to that.  The Civil War was not just about ending slavery.  As some historians have pointed out, if the Federal government had just wanted to end slavery, they could have bought all the slaves from the South and freed them in the North for less then what it cost to fight the Civil War.

      However, ignoring the fact that the Confederacy is a symbol of opression to black people is just wrong.  While you can acknowledge that the Civil War was not just about ending slavery, that does not mean you can completely ignore the fact that slavery played a huge part of the conflict, and for all its destruction, at least the Civil War did finally end slavery.

       

      "Moderation in temper is always a virtue; but moderation in principle is always a vice." - Thomas Paine

      by methinshaw on Mon Apr 12, 2010 at 08:15:22 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Their ignorance of history is sad (0+ / 0-)

        The Confederacy was an illegal insurrection. They are lucky that Lincoln and Johnson didn't hang every officer and politician involved in this crime.

        The US Senate is begging to be abolished. Let's fulfill its request.

        by freelunch on Mon Apr 12, 2010 at 08:44:40 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  What exactly IS the Southern heritage? (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        freelunch

        Besides slavery?  How about 'High treason against the US'?

        Let's face it: nobody in the US was (is) immune to racism, but most of it was (is) concentrated in one section of the country.

        I subscribe to Zinn's view that racism was instilled among the poor by the rich in order to enforce the economic system.

  •  Roll Haley over... (5+ / 0-)

    He's done. Say bye bye to your White House hopes, Grand Wizard.

  •  As early as 1775 (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Front Toward Enemy, Larin

    Samuel Johnson was heard to remark that:

    "Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel"

    It is reasonable to conjecture that Johnson referred not to Pride, but to the false jingoism that accompanies such over the top statements and celebrations.

    It's also high time we took the Star Spangled Banner back from those who would debase all it truly represents.

    We do not forgive our candidates their humanity, therefore we compel them to appear inhuman

    by twigg on Mon Apr 12, 2010 at 07:37:17 AM PDT

  •  It's a pretty sad commentary on the politics (10+ / 0-)

    of the day when there is a celebration of events that literally ripped this country asunder.

  •  What's hard to believe? (8+ / 0-)

    He's actually required to say those words. His reaction proves what McDonnell was attempting in the first place. There's an ongoing effort by white conservatives in the South to rewrite the history of the Civil War. It started the day after the Civil War ended. Denigrating the victims of slavery by ignoring them is part of the pattern.

    Generations of white southerners have been raised with the notion that the role of the Confederacy was benign. They have been taught to feel pride over their southern heritage. For a conservative white politician to cop to slavery would register with his constituents as extremely jarring. Fortunately episodes like this one are great catalysts for shining a light on unspoken underlying assumptions, and I suspect the result of these highly publicized demonstrations of institutional racism will continue to chip away at support for conservative philosophy and ideals.

  •  It's interesting that he says (5+ / 0-)

    "nobody" objects. So, if you object, you're nobody? If you object, you don't count?

    There's a reason Democrats won massively the last two cycles, and it wasn't because people were desperate for "bipartisanship". --kos

    by Debby on Mon Apr 12, 2010 at 07:42:20 AM PDT

  •  The argument can easily be... (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    RJDixon74135, Rustbelt Dem, ems97007

    Dismantled:  If it wasn't about slavery and only 'state's rights', then what other rights, besides slavery, were Dixie fighting for?  I'll bet no one can come up with a solid answer...

    To the WH: "It's your job to f*ck-up power; it's Fox's job to f*ck-up truth.' - Jon Stewart

    by RichM on Mon Apr 12, 2010 at 07:42:22 AM PDT

    •  Well, the Southern states have never been big (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Rustbelt Dem

      on taxes. But yeah, slavery was the core issue.

      _Karl Rove is an outside agitator._

      by susanala on Mon Apr 12, 2010 at 07:53:28 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Tariffs played a big role. (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      RJDixon74135, roadbear

      The South had to import most of its manufactored goods.  The Northern states put tariffs on goods imported from foreign countries to boost sales of goods manufactored in the North.  Goods from other countries were actually cheaper without the tariffs, angering many in the South.  Essentially, it was the same thing England tried to do with tea, leading to the build-up to the Revolutionary War.

      Of course, it still all goes back to slavery.  The reason the South didn't have the industry the North did was because they had an agarian economy based off slavery.  If they had ended slavery when the Northern states did (during the Revolution), their economy would likely have been more advanced and they wouldn't have been suceptible to economic hardship caused from the tariffs.    

      "Moderation in temper is always a virtue; but moderation in principle is always a vice." - Thomas Paine

      by methinshaw on Mon Apr 12, 2010 at 08:22:57 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  This is why it is vital (10+ / 0-)

    that Movement Conservatives not be allowed to re-write US History only to the benefit of Movement Conservatism at the expense of actual history.

    If the Healthcare debate should have taught non-Movement Conservatives anything its this: if you let the Movement Conservatives repeat a lie long enough, or frame the debate on their terms, the lies become deeply embedded into the population at large. They become zombie lies that keep coming up and up and up again and it makes it harder and harder to govern and pass policy in a non-Movement Conservative way.

    It then has a dire effect on the nation and the ability to get anything done.

    Unless you want your kids reading that Joe McCarthy was a hero, and that MLK was a Movement Conservative, and that FDR actually caused the Great Depression and knew about Pearl Harbor and cravenly did nothing to stop it, you have to stand up and fight the revisionist Right.

    Waking up to an America with the equivalent of 'Treason in Defense of Slavery Month' has no place on my calendar.

  •  Haley has to be cursing under (6+ / 0-)

      his breath that Hillary Clinton isn't President right now. If he runs in 2012...he'll be running against the 1st African American President..and here is with an unapologetic racist past. His close ties and support of the CCC-MS Chapter is evidence enough. Against Hillary, he could've hidden or denied such ties. Against Obama, no chance...that will come out...and he will be DOA at Campaign Life Support Hospital!!

    There's magic in fighting battles beyond endurance. Its the magic of risking everything for a dream that nobody sees but you!! - Morgan Freeman

    by usmeagle69 on Mon Apr 12, 2010 at 07:44:27 AM PDT

  •  The GOP exists in a fantasy world (4+ / 0-)

    What they don't realize is that unlike, say, Narnia or Middle Earth, most of us wouldn't visit their fantasy world given the opportunity.

    I mean, who do you want to pal around with:

    1. Samwise Gamgee
    1. Reepicheep
    1. Jefferson Davis

    I'd buy Sam a beer. I'd buy Reepicheep a nice new hat.

    I'd kick Jefferson Davis in the balls and dance on his chest. Metaphorically, of course. No threats of violence, even against long-dead assholes.

    In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice; but in practice, there always is a difference. - Yogi Berra

    by blue aardvark on Mon Apr 12, 2010 at 07:45:53 AM PDT

  •  Condisering Mississippi (6+ / 0-)

    is almost 40% black, I don't understand how they still managed to elect a white racist.

    •  The 40% don't vote as much as they should (6+ / 0-)

      The 60% contains an appalling large fraction of Haley Barbour think-alikes.

      In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice; but in practice, there always is a difference. - Yogi Berra

      by blue aardvark on Mon Apr 12, 2010 at 07:48:39 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Baptist trumps race (4+ / 0-)

      Republicans have the South convinced that they're the party of "Jesus."  And religion -- which is overwhelming here -- is the main thing that drives people to vote.  

      I have Republican co-workers who literally do not understand anything about politics.  They don't know that elected officials have an impact on the economy, policies, or anything.  They're just voting based on their imaginary friend, and such social issues as abortion and gay marriage.  And pigs like Barbour pay lip service to religion.  That's why they vote him in, even though he completely screws up the state.

      Religion's grip on the South is a very bewildering thing.  They really are like the Taliban down here...

      "Glenn Beck ends up looking like a fat, stupid child. His face should be wearing a chef's hat on the side of a box of eclairs. " - Doug Stanhope

      by Front Toward Enemy on Mon Apr 12, 2010 at 08:10:58 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Jed, you have it all wrong (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    RJDixon74135

    If you want to go and wrap yourself in the Confederate flag, that's your prerogative, Governor Barbour, but don't go pretending like nobody thinks you're back assward racist for doing so. They do, and they're right.

    Haley Barbour hisself said he was a fat redneck bask-assward racist with an accent.

    Anyone who has the power to make you believe absurdities has the power to make you commit injustices -- François-Marie Arouet

    by CA Berkeley WV on Mon Apr 12, 2010 at 07:48:03 AM PDT

  •  ol' Haley, he make Jabba the Hutt look (0+ / 0-)
    positively like a real good ol' boy.  Know what I mean?

    Never walk into a public restroom while breathing through your mouth.

    by quityurkidding on Mon Apr 12, 2010 at 07:48:05 AM PDT

  •  Kind of Weird How Much He Hates (4+ / 0-)

    America -- given the degree to which his state economy is dependent on Union largess.

    Adam and Eve had Iraqi birth certificates.

    by bink on Mon Apr 12, 2010 at 07:50:51 AM PDT

  •  Barbour: not controversial because the (4+ / 0-)

    views of African-Americans and liberals have very little  importance to him. That way he can dismiss the criticism as illegitimate and ignore and then posture that the proclamation was non-controversial (among the Sons of the Confederacy).

  •  Barbour talks like he has (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Front Toward Enemy, docrocktex

    a cowpie jammed in his mouth. "Rowr, rowl, rrowrl, rarr, rarr rargle," sez Haley. Poor old guy totally doesn't get that he's a cartoonish throwback bigot. He's my age, 60 this year. I wonder where he's spent his life.

    When an old man dies, a library burns down. --African proverb

    by Wom Bat on Mon Apr 12, 2010 at 07:51:43 AM PDT

    •  He is a throwback, but not because of his accent. (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      GN1927, Front Toward Enemy

      Howell Heflin was damned near incomprehensible, even to this Alabama native. But he was still the best Chief Justice our state supreme court ever had. Morris Dees, founder of Southern Poverty Law Center, has a heavy accent. And his nickname is Bubba.

      _Karl Rove is an outside agitator._

      by susanala on Mon Apr 12, 2010 at 07:58:24 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Here in rural North Carolina, we're not bashful (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        susanala

        about pointing out that our fellow southerners can be a colorful lot. That includes our accent. I have quite a drawl myself. Obviously it's Barbour's vicious sentiments, not his accent, that make him a throwback. I remember Senator Heflin far more for his wit than for his speech, especially his classic line re Ted Kennedy, which I'm sure you've heard.

        When an old man dies, a library burns down. --African proverb

        by Wom Bat on Mon Apr 12, 2010 at 08:15:34 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  Gov. Foghorn Leghorn (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Wom Bat, bleedingheartliberal218

      Even in Mississippi, Barbour's accent is ignorant-sounding.  We do mocking imitations of him all the time.

      "Glenn Beck ends up looking like a fat, stupid child. His face should be wearing a chef's hat on the side of a box of eclairs. " - Doug Stanhope

      by Front Toward Enemy on Mon Apr 12, 2010 at 08:12:49 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  And maybe CNN will promote the (0+ / 0-)

    opinion piece of one of their own that called Confederate soldiers terrorists. What deos Erick think about that?

    Has anyone noticed the "Invisible Hand of the Free Market" is still giving us the bird?

    by ontheleftcoast on Mon Apr 12, 2010 at 07:55:22 AM PDT

  •  I sear there are times these (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    TrueBlueMajority, GN1927, roadbear

    days that I feel like I've been blasted back to the early 1960's with some of the garbage coming from Repubs. I relive those ugly images I saw on teevee of fire hoses, violence, murders, dogs attacking humans simply because of their color and because a cop gave that dog a command and George Wallace just being a racist ass. I think some of the jerks stirring this crap up never left that time and think now it's okay to bring out the past . They are largely older, pasty unhappy people that, unfortunately either have or are teaching the same ugliness to their kids and grandkids. Gah, if their really was a rapture possible for these clowns now would be an appropriate time. I'm so-o-o-o sick of all of it.

    Keep your cynicism off my optimism, thanks

    by Its any one guess on Mon Apr 12, 2010 at 07:55:39 AM PDT

  •  Barbour/GOP support for racism is the future. (4+ / 0-)

    "These Republicans are stuck so far in the past..."

    Totally wrong. GOP's support for racism is key to GOP FUTURE electoral success.

    It was key to Nixon, Reagan, Bushes elections.  It is key to Gingrich, Romney, Palin political strategy going forward of which Barbour is main player and presidential hopeful himself.

    Racism is key to Fox/TeaBagger astro-turf movement where on TV 100 tea baggers = 100,000 immigration reformers in the streets. 100 white people vs. 100,000 brown people.

    Dismissing Barbour and GOP's support for racism, their waving the Confederate/slavery flag as being in the past is wrong. It is totally their future and US future if they win election.

    If Democrats were smart (and this is not their year for being smart) they would wrap the GOP in the Confederate flag so that no GOP candidate appears without being labeled as supporting slavery and racism.

    •  I agree that's their thought... (0+ / 0-)

      but it's not going to work.  Lest we forget George "Macaca" Allen.  That singular event completely sunk his campaign.  They may be energizing their dentally challenged base, but it's a sure fire way to get the minorities of this country fired up and involved as well.

      There are also many conservatives, particularly in northern and western states that will sit on their hands rather than vote for an outright racist.  

      Nixon, Reagan and Bush(s) were successful because they could channel the message appropriately in subtle fashion.  These idiots are as subtle as a white sheet.

      •  GOP racism has worked well. Nixon, Reagan, Bushes (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        coffejoe

        GOP House and Senate with Dole, McConnel, Newt and Hastert.

        "it's not going to work"

        Au contraire...GOP is going to win Congress on a platform of racism.

        Racism, the Southern Strategy of Nixon, is key to GOP electoral success. Without racism the GOP cannot win. GOP is the white party and it depends on whipping up whites to get out to vote to win elections.

        It has worked well and continues to work well. One only need look at the current campaign vs. Obama where the GOP calls the first black president a "racist who hates white people".

  •  He meant "No white people who Barbour respects (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    TrueBlueMajority

    and fears for his influence of campaign contributions" has complained.

    Can't we all get along? - R. King.

    by mungley on Mon Apr 12, 2010 at 07:58:48 AM PDT

  •  In the South, when Darwin made an appearance (0+ / 0-)

    people were so shocked, everything came to a screeching halt.

    These Republicans are stuck so far in the past that they don't represent yesterday, they represent the day before the day before yesterday.

    Specifically, they represent 23 November 1859

    Charles Darwin's On the Origin of Species, published on 24 November 1859, is a seminal work of scientific literature, considered to be the foundation of evolutionary biology.

    We're dealing with people who are literally 150 years behind the times.

    The invasion of Iraq was a war crime, a crime against humanity, and a crime against civilization. Prosecute the crime.

    by Positronicus on Mon Apr 12, 2010 at 08:02:02 AM PDT

  •  Considering Mississippi is the state (2+ / 0-)

    of Trent "America would have been better off if we elected Strom Thurmond President in 1948" Lott, I'm not at all surprised. When you considered that Mississippi did not ratify the 13th Amendment until 1995 or the 19th Amendment until 1984, you cannot be surprised by this. The fact that some parts of the Magnolia State still have segregated proms speaks for itself.

  •  "I'm just an ignorant redneck (3+ / 0-)

    sonofabitch, I just think we should embrace our inner traitors.  That good enuf for ya Miss Candy."

    "This shit would be interesting if we weren't in the middle of it." -Barack Obama

    by dlh77489 on Mon Apr 12, 2010 at 08:03:52 AM PDT

  •  and Candy Crowley didn't even blink. (8+ / 0-)

    He said that crazy-ass thing, and she just sat there and let it go by as if he'd said nothing more surprising than "I like pancakes."  Then they had a Bloody Mary together.

    Holy shit.  Candy Crowley was never great, but since she got her own show she's become pathetic.

    And Barbour just becomes a bigger and bigger embarrassment every day.  As the Drive-By Truckers will tell you, there is a "duality" to the "Southern thing," but Haley is a loonnnnng fuckin' way off from explaining it.  In fact, he gets it totally wrong.

    "Glenn Beck ends up looking like a fat, stupid child. His face should be wearing a chef's hat on the side of a box of eclairs. " - Doug Stanhope

    by Front Toward Enemy on Mon Apr 12, 2010 at 08:04:07 AM PDT

  •  According to her biography (4+ / 0-)

    Margaret Mitchell herself was ten years old before she learned that the South had lost the war.

    Hey John Edwards, put your legal mind to work, ACORN needs your help.

    by 88kathy on Mon Apr 12, 2010 at 08:04:09 AM PDT

  •  We're Seeing the Revamped & Recycled (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    dlh77489, coffejoe, moonpal

    "Southern Strategy" of the Nixon-Reagan-Bush era repackaged as Tea Party patriotism when it's never changed from being a fight for White Power.

    Racism that won't die -- what the Republican Party cultivates because it thrives on it.

    "ingratiation and access . . . are not corruption." -- Justice Kennedy (Citizens United v. Federal Election Commission, 2010)

    by Limelite on Mon Apr 12, 2010 at 08:04:15 AM PDT

  •  Any questions now (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    TrueBlueMajority, moonpal, docrocktex

    When white progressives began advocating finding common cause with teabaggers non white members of the community screamed in protest.  Hell no we don't have any commonality these people are flat out racist.  We were told no they arenT they just hate taxes.  Bullshit.  This isn't new.  This is the same strategy the Republicans have adopted since Nixon decided to covet the racist vote, and they are doing it again.  What is so disheartening is in the year 2010 they don't even try dog whistles anymore, they are straight out saying it with air raid sirens, and they still have a seat at our body politic.

    My leader is Barack Hussein Obama the finest President this country has ever elected. Face Front and Respect

    by Adept2u on Mon Apr 12, 2010 at 08:04:19 AM PDT

  •  Surreal (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Vita Brevis

    Will somebody please wake up Haley Barbour and let him know it's 2010 and that it's not cool to deny that the treasonous Confederacy was fighting to protect the institution of slavery?

    The historical revisionism is beyond belief.

    climate.gov---POTUS' New Science-Based Climate Change Agency

    by GN1927 on Mon Apr 12, 2010 at 08:05:19 AM PDT

  •  Did anyone else notice (0+ / 0-)

    how incoherent Barbour sounded?

  •  How about GOP Hatch mentioning Hillary for SC? (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    karenc13

    GOP's Hatch says he's heard Secretary of State's name mentioned for job

    That is a bigger headline coming out of the Sunday news shows than the predictable GOP support for celebrating the Confederacy and the fight to preserve slavery in the South.

    Hillary would be great choice and a great political choice which would help revive the Democratic base for the 2019 election, saving Congress for the Democrats or at least offering a chance of that.

    •  Hatch is blowing smoke (0+ / 0-)

      lots of people have mentioned HRC for the SCt, but she's more valuable where she is.

      Rs would like to see her on the court where they could complain about her and raise money off of her.

      "Politics is like driving. To go backward put it in R. To go forward put it in D."
      --Tom Harkin

      by TrueBlueMajority on Mon Apr 12, 2010 at 08:11:40 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Hillary more valuable as Supreme Court Justice. (0+ / 0-)

        Politically it would be a huge story for Democrats and a huge boost for 2010 election for Democrats.

        Hillary would deliver a ringing defense of liberalism at the hearings and the GOP could not stop her nomination.

        If they tried to filibuster her, she has the base in the US Senate to make Democrats killing the filibuster for judicial appointments possible.

        And having Hillary Clinton on the Supreme Court for the next 20 years would be inspirational no matter what happen in elections over next 20 years.

  •  This is how war affects people (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    coffejoe

    In the US, we are actually pretty lucky.  It isn't like Europe or many other places on earth where there have been wars in the past that create ongoing resentments all over the place, piled deep.

    Think of the Bosnian situation, where the hatred that boiled over was cited as coming out of a 600 year old resentment over battles fought back then.  

    The South is an example of how war affects people down through generations.  

    You can pick up a similar, ongoing sense of tragedy in communities on Indian reservations.  The difference is that they are more circumspect and less given to promoting prejudice towards others as a way of justifying their sense of history.  

    Really, the Confederacy thing owes its angst energy to European heritage and the right people maintain to not let go of something that gives them identity - their common bond in a tragic past.  

    It can't really be understood by people in other parts of the country where this isn't culturally, profoundly shared.  

    The reason you see Southern politicians getting up and projecting support for symbols like the confederate flag is that they know where their voters are at.
    Unfortunately, it is also unscrupulous pandering to hint at the prospects for a renewed Confederacy, which is a definite undertone.  

    hope that the idiots who have no constructive and creative solutions but only look to tear down will not win the day.

    by Stuart Heady on Mon Apr 12, 2010 at 08:08:15 AM PDT

  •  I actually like Haley Barbour... (0+ / 0-)

    But this was just stupid of him.  I don't agree with him politically, but he's not a douche typically.  I have no idea why he would say something like this though.

  •  Good gawd, Mississippi is still burning (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    RJDixon74135, docrocktex

    Barbour is a flaming asshole.

    I'm trying to free your mind, Neo. But I can only show you the door. You're the one that has to walk through it.

    by noofsh on Mon Apr 12, 2010 at 08:10:09 AM PDT

  •  I am careful and loathe (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    RJDixon74135

    to equate things that really aren't equatable...things like slavery, the Holocaust, etc. But, the mentality of the people who dismiss the significance of slavery is on par with Holocaust denial.

    Our real adversaries are not each other

    by Vita Brevis on Mon Apr 12, 2010 at 08:10:53 AM PDT

  •  Barbour reminds me of one of those (0+ / 0-)

    sunglasses-clad, khaki-wearing southern sheriffs with sweat under their arms. He wouldn't even have to practice to get the part.

  •  "State's Rights Argument Justifies ExtremePolcies (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    bleedingheartliberal218

    At a time when GOP state attorney's general are rushing to court to block health care reform arguing it's unauthorized Federal interference in state's rights, it's good to reflect on all of the brutal and immoral State policies that this argument has supported over the years.  

    Remember, it's a lot easier for a group of whackos to get control of the levers of power in a smaller state than it is in the Federal government.

  •  How do get the AA's in MS to VOTE? (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    pademocrat, coffejoe, moonpal

    Why does MS have any GOPers at all in elected office?

    I tell my daughter about the power of the people, IF they USE IT.

    If MS has such a large AA population, why is the execrable Barbour elected to anything?

  •  Agreed Jed, thanks nt (0+ / 0-)

    To paraphrase Warren Ballentine: "We may have come here in separate boats but we're in the same one now"

    by OHknighty on Mon Apr 12, 2010 at 08:17:43 AM PDT

  •  RED HERRING (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    pademocrat, coffejoe

    This confederate flag talk in a diversion intended to distract attention from the real scandal Haley Barbour is hiding. DON'T BE FOOLED, INVESTIGATE.

  •  To top it off, the dumb S.O.B. uses "Diddley" (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    RJDixon74135

    dismissively.

    That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt -

    by enhydra lutris on Mon Apr 12, 2010 at 08:22:50 AM PDT

  •  Here's another take on the comment. (0+ / 0-)

    It's possible that Barbour's remarks could be interpreted that such proclamations as CMD and CHM don't "amount to diddly", because nobody pays attention to them anymore.

    A win-win way to test this would be to loudly frame his remarks as actually ridiculing the significance of CMD and CHM. This would either drive a wedge between Barbour and supporters of CMD and CHM or force him to clearly re-state his support for them.  Either outcome would diminish him politically

  •  We should all go out and ask our local republican (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    RJDixon74135

    leaders in public if they agree with the leader of the republican governors assoc.  They should all go on record on this since it was some of their leaders, and indeed two presidential hopefuls, who brought this up.

    That passed by; this can, too. - Deor

    by stevie avebury on Mon Apr 12, 2010 at 08:26:38 AM PDT

  •  In defense of Hailey Barbour (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    pee dee fire ant

    Let me be clear, I can't stand the man, and I hate what he has done to Mississippi. But, if we are judging his racial sensitivity, then, to be fair, this incident is also part of that record.

    As you may know, no one has ever been convicted of the killings of Goodman, Schwerner, and Cheney in Philadelphia, Mississippi more than forty years ago. Philadelphia is the type of town where it is certain somebody knows, and likely most folks have a pretty good idea of who did it. Bailey did not instinctively know when the fortieth anniversary of those killings was coming up. But when he found out about it, he cancelled plans to be out of state, scheduled himself to speak to the local Rotary Club (a big deal in a small Mississippi town), and told them (I saw the tape.) that anyone who knew who did it and didn't tell was harboring terrorists (yes, he used that exact word.), because these killings had been an act of terrorism. I'm sure he wasn't surprised when no one came forward. But I think he should get credit for making the effort.

    There really is, down here, a separation of the issue of racial prejudice, which is enormously better than it was fifty years ago, and pride in the Confederacy. It is possible to be active in interracial groups and causes, and still be aware that you, unlike the rest of America, live in a country that has lost a war. I don't expect anyone who hasn't lived here to understand this, but it's a fact.

    "We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them." - Albert Einstein

    by Tenn Wisc Dem on Mon Apr 12, 2010 at 08:40:33 AM PDT

  •  Why did he say "It's a mitt"? (0+ / 0-)

    A baseball reference? Romney? Exaggerated drawl?

    Coming Soon -- to an Internet connection near you: Armisticeproject.org

    by FischFry on Mon Apr 12, 2010 at 08:44:55 AM PDT

  •  does this mean when another katrina hits (0+ / 0-)

    Halleys state we northerners can tell him to go ask the confederate states for financial help rebuilding?

    and I think Sinclair Lewis was slightly wrong... the correct sentence should read... when Fascism comes to America it will be holding a bible and wrapped in a CONFEDERATE FLAG  :)

    "We have passed beyond the absurd, our position is absolutely preposterous" - Ron Tavel

    by KnotIookin on Mon Apr 12, 2010 at 08:45:07 AM PDT

  •  Haley Barbour - Asshole Extraordinaire (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    RJDixon74135, progresso

    I hope his racist, bigotted opinions stop his national political aspirations.  He and his supporters are beneath contempt.  

    Barbour's "No big diddly" to slavery got CNN's Don Lemon a bit upset.

    The white racist trash (KU KLUX KRISTIANS) who keep the Haley Barbours in public office are Straight-Party-Stupid 1-Issue (HATRED) voters who respond to the Confederate code words.  That's why the old Confederacy is still under the 1965 Voting Rights Act and should NEVER get out from under it.

    Southern Republicans are always working to ethnically cleanse the area of colored folks.
    (Northcentral Pennsylvania is the same way.)
    "Fair" Tax is a prime example -- shift tax burden away from the wealthiest onto the poor to try and make life so difficult for them that they'll leave.
    (Afterall, conservatives' Jesus rewards good "Christians" with wealth and punishes sinners with poverty.  Slavery is "Christian" to conservatives done by GOD to reward them.)

    The Ku Klux Kristians would be the 1st to demand the execution of Jesus Christ their supposed Lord & Savior.  Their blue-eyed, blonde-haired, light-skinned Jesus isn't anything like the "social & economic justice" Jesus the "liberal degenerate" in the New Testament.

    The moral degeneracy and blatant hypocrisy of southern Ku Klux Kristians is as stiffling as the summer heat and humidity in Mississippi.  
    (These are the assholes who needed to rewrite the Word of GOD to comform to their morally-bankrupt political values because they couldn't comply with the Word of GOD.)

    Barbour and his ilk (swamp slime) haven't evolved for eons.  There will be NO "Post-Racial Era" in the old confederacy.

  •  There was a lot more. (0+ / 0-)

    It wasn't all about slavery.  You have extremely poor choice of words:

    treasonous Confederacy

    My family actually split over the Civil War, some fighting for the north and some for the south.  I agree that it is wrong to talk about the Confederacy without even mentioning slavery.  But to call it "treasonous" is to completely ignore the states rights issues that many confederate soldiers thought were worth giving their lives for.  Many of them never had slaves and didn't necessarily think slavery was right.  They fought for other issues.

    The ...Bushies... don't make policies to deal with problems. ...It's all about how can we spin what's happening out there to do what we want to do. Krugman

    by mikepridmore on Mon Apr 12, 2010 at 09:01:22 AM PDT

    •  It was insurrection (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      FishBiscuit

      They did take up arms against this country.

      There is nothing to be proud of.

      The state's rights arguments came after the fact.

      The US Senate is begging to be abolished. Let's fulfill its request.

      by freelunch on Mon Apr 12, 2010 at 09:09:55 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  You are entitled to your own opinion (0+ / 0-)

        but not your own facts.  Here is a quote from an 1852 declaration about state's rights.  And that statement was rooted in discussions that date back to the founding of the nation, discussions that predated the US constitution and are reflected in the 10th amendment.

        The ...Bushies... don't make policies to deal with problems. ...It's all about how can we spin what's happening out there to do what we want to do. Krugman

        by mikepridmore on Mon Apr 12, 2010 at 09:43:36 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Why did only the slave states think this was true (0+ / 0-)

          Why didn't they ask to be separated?

          This was about slavery, first and last. The excuses they made about states' rights were not accepted by the country as a whole, not even during the '40s and '50s when everyone expected something to happen.

          South Carolina's declaration was a smoke screen

          The US Senate is begging to be abolished. Let's fulfill its request.

          by freelunch on Mon Apr 12, 2010 at 10:43:38 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  hmm... (0+ / 0-)

            Why didn't they ask to be separated?

            Dictionary.com lists "separation" as a synonym for secession.

            At the link provided, synonyms are listed on the left.

            The ...Bushies... don't make policies to deal with problems. ...It's all about how can we spin what's happening out there to do what we want to do. Krugman

            by mikepridmore on Mon Apr 12, 2010 at 10:52:05 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  "Ask" is the important word (0+ / 0-)

              There was no mechanism for separation, but that didn't mean they could do it unilaterally.

              The US Senate is begging to be abolished. Let's fulfill its request.

              by freelunch on Tue Apr 13, 2010 at 05:28:52 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  So instead... (0+ / 0-)

                "I am separating from you" should have been "may I separate from you?"  That's your quibble? Seems a little picky to me.

                The ...Bushies... don't make policies to deal with problems. ...It's all about how can we spin what's happening out there to do what we want to do. Krugman

                by mikepridmore on Tue Apr 13, 2010 at 01:30:52 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  So, everyone has the right to be highhanded? (0+ / 0-)

                  Condemning unilateralism is not just being picky.

                  The US Senate is begging to be abolished. Let's fulfill its request.

                  by freelunch on Wed Apr 14, 2010 at 05:19:14 AM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  Puhleeze. (0+ / 0-)

                    Let's be clear here.  It was stated at the beginning of this tiresome exchange that the states' rights argument was made up after the fact because the South wanted an excuse for slavery.  

                    When I pointed out that the states' rights arguments actually predated the Civil War period, you shifted your complaint to something else.  When you made that shift, you as much as admitted you could no longer defend your original assertion.  So you have already lost at least once in this discussion.

                    Your new complaint was that the southern states "didn't ask to be separate."  Now you seem to be redefining your terms to say that your new new complaint is that the way they went about being separate was "highhanded" and "unilateral."  Since those terms can both be defined subjectively, I am willing to agree to disagree with your usage.

                    The ...Bushies... don't make policies to deal with problems. ...It's all about how can we spin what's happening out there to do what we want to do. Krugman

                    by mikepridmore on Wed Apr 14, 2010 at 08:16:24 AM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

  •  History Revisionists...... (0+ / 0-)

    This is just more of the same historic revisionism that the Republicans have been engaging in for years.

    They hold onto resentment like an old confederate widow.

    They really need to evolve.

    "Political language is designed to make lies sound truthful and murder respectable, and to give the appearance of solidity to pure wind."

    by progresso on Mon Apr 12, 2010 at 09:30:57 AM PDT

  •  You misunderstood Barbour. (0+ / 0-)

    "I think it's unfortunate that the governor is so insensitive to the atrocities made against African-Americans in this country by the former Confederate States," said Derrick Johnson, president of the Mississippi NAACP.

    Barbour isn't denying that he said that.
    Barbour is saying that Johnson is a nobody.

    Corporations are people; money is speech.
    George Orwell

    by Frank Palmer on Mon Apr 12, 2010 at 09:31:14 AM PDT

  •  "I say, I say, now listen to me, boy...." n/t (0+ / 0-)
  •  What about a Gen. Sherman remembrance day? (0+ / 0-)

    We could have a proclamation in honor of the memory of General Sherman's contributions to this country's military victories and not mention the March to the Sea.

    Some people are intolerant, and I CAN'T STAND people like that. -- Tom Lehrer

    by TheCrank on Mon Apr 12, 2010 at 09:47:28 AM PDT

  •  Barbour (0+ / 0-)

    I am horrified by the honoring, celebrating, and protecting the confederacy, their flag, and their so called heroes.  Not because of slavery because gawd knows very few men who fought for the confederacy were slave holders, but because it was treason and sedition.  Next thing you know they'll be holding a parade and wanting a holiday for Timothy McVeigh!

  •  In 1861, Mississippi said why they seceded (0+ / 0-)

    The delegates at Mississippi's secession convention, after voting to secede, also approved a declaration of the causes of secession.  Here's the first paragraph of that document:

    "In the momentous step which our State has taken of dissolving its connection with the government of which we so long formed a part, it is but just that we should declare the prominent reasons which have induced our course.
    Our position is thoroughly identified with the institution of slavery-- the greatest material interest of the world. Its labor supplies the product which constitutes by far the largest and most important portions of commerce of the earth. These products are peculiar to the climate verging on the tropical regions, and by an imperious law of nature, none but the black race can bear exposure to the tropical sun. These products have become necessities of the world, and a blow at slavery is a blow at commerce and civilization. That blow has been long aimed at the institution, and was at the point of reaching its consummation. There was no choice left us but submission to the mandates of abolition, or a dissolution of the Union, whose principles had been subverted to work out our ruin."

    Just today I published a diary about the declarations of secession by Mississippi and three other states (South Carolina, Georgia, and Texas).  If we want to know WHY they were ready to fight a civil war, there's no better place to start than by reading the justifications they themselves offered.

  •  What y'all don't seem to understand ... (0+ / 0-)

    ... is that mostly the people who do the fighting in any war are totally disconnected from the politics that caused it.

    You can celebrate the heroics of the common man (isn't that a good Democrat ideal?) without painting him with the politics of his leaders.

    I think that's what Barbour is trying to articulate.

  •  Reminds me of Ned Beatty in "Deliverance" (0+ / 0-)

    Squeal like a pig....

    Many of my contemporaries experimented with hallucinogenic drugs. Some are still looking for their cars outside Nassau Coliseum.

    by mojave mike on Fri Apr 16, 2010 at 07:44:58 PM PDT

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