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In time for tax day, Citizen for Tax Justice releases a new fact sheet [pdf] on your federal tax bill for 2009. It's good news, for 98% of working families.

According to a recent CBS News/New York Times poll, the vast majority of Americans do not perceive that they have received a tax cut from President Obama. Asked if the President “has already raised taxes this past year,” 53 percent of those polled said that the President has “kept taxes the same,” and 24 percent think that the President has “raised taxes.” A mere 12 percent believe that the President has cut their taxes.

This is an astonishing level of misunderstanding. The truth is that the major tax cuts enacted in the 2009 economic stimulus bill actually reduced federal income taxes for tax year 2009 for 98 percent of all working families and individuals. These tax cuts saved working families and individuals an average of $1,158 on the tax returns they will file by April 15. (The median tax cut was approximately $600.) [emphasis in original]

An astonishing level of people believe any lie the Republican party tells them. A sizable chunk of them probably still believe that Saddam Hussein was responsible for the 9/11 attacks. Turning around the "tax and spend" stereotype for Democrats is going to take a long time to dislodge. Even more important to dislodge will be the persistent idea that taxes somehow aren't critical to the functioning of government, of society.

At any rate, if you've been procrastinating on completing that return, get to it. You might very well have a better outcome than you've been expecting.

Originally posted to Daily Kos on Tue Apr 13, 2010 at 04:30 PM PDT.

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Comment Preferences

  •  I'm getting about $4800 back this year. (7+ / 0-)

    Not as much as I'd hoped for, but better than nothing.  Of course, I do have to thank my ex for getting re-married in June.  Saved me about $8,000 in alimony payments.

    Once in a while you get shown the light, in the strangest of places if you look at it right.

    by darthstar on Tue Apr 13, 2010 at 04:32:55 PM PDT

  •  Thank god we compromised on the stimulus (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    darthstar, theone718

    Don't know what we would have done politically without those tax cuts in there...

  •  All I know is I got a sweet refund this year (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Navy Vet Terp, Phil S 33, sherlyle, cany

    and I'm going to turn around spend it. Just doing my part to stimulate the economy.

  •  Ten dollars a week, why bother. (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    IndianaDemocrat
    •  Because that ten dollars a week gets spent (9+ / 0-)

      and ten dollars a week of additional spending from 98% of working Americans is a shit ton of stimulus (shit ton is a technical term).

      Rather than giving large tax breaks to a small group of people who are rich enough to simply put it in an interest bearing account, never stimulate the economy with the principle and use the interest to prop up a comfortable lifestyle which doesn't do much for the economy.

      The tax cuts weren't intended to make a huge difference for the individual recipients.  There were intended to stimulate the economy.  Tax breaks aren't the best way to stimulate through spending, but at least small tax breaks to a huge pool of people who can't afford to just put it away are more stimulative than the GOP trickle down version.

      Besides 10 a week x 52 weeks is $520 which beats the crap out of a poke in the eye with a sharp stick.

      Picture a bright blue ball just spinnin' spinnin' free. It's dizzy with possibility.

      by lockewasright on Tue Apr 13, 2010 at 04:48:54 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  In an election year (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        badger1968

        it would be wise to do something noticeable to get people to vote for you....for most people who still have jobs, $10 a week doesn't do it.

        "All governments lie, but disaster lies in wait for countries whose officials smoke the same hashish they give out." --I.F. Stone

        by Alice in Florida on Tue Apr 13, 2010 at 04:54:45 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  technical term (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        phonegery, lockewasright

        Yes it is.  

        A shit ton is about 2 dookies and a squirt of piss less than a metric shit ton.

      •  I agree with the theory (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Sherri in TX, lockewasright, SBoswell

        but disagree on the outcome.  A $520 check would have been pretty convincing evidence of a tax cut.  $10 a week is barely noticeable by most people.  From a PR standpoint a check would have been better.  
        In addition, there were errors made in with-holding tables that wiped out some married couples tax savings.  (Don't ask me the specifics--I'm not an accountant).  We ended up owing a small amount, even though our tax bill had shrunk due to the with-holding table mistake.  So, yeah, I see why some people may think they didn't get a break or even thought their taxes went up.  The tea-baggers are idiots, no doubt, but the execution and optics on this one could have been better.

        "I shall never surrender or retreat." --Lieutenant Colonel William Barret Travis

        by badger1968 on Tue Apr 13, 2010 at 04:59:37 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Sure the optics could have been better. It's one (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          phonegery, badger1968, SBoswell

          of my biggest frustrations with our party.  We suck at messaging and have zero zero message discipline outside of Howard Dean and Grayson.

          Still, there is the risk that people would squirrel away $520 dollars or at least some of it which would diminish the stimulative capacity of the overall tax break.

          Picture a bright blue ball just spinnin' spinnin' free. It's dizzy with possibility.

          by lockewasright on Tue Apr 13, 2010 at 05:03:43 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  or 2- $250 checks-one every 6 months (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          badger1968

          would have made a bigger political statement. 2 times to remind people that they got a refund, and it was Obama and the democrats who gave it to them.

          Possibly a bigger jolt to the local economy, as people would have the money to buy a larger item-tv, washing machine, etc., because they probably won't/can't save the $10, so they probably don't have anything to show for it.

          $10 just gets piddled away, unfortunately.

          Hopefully, if they do a second stimulus, they will keep this in mind.

          Today's problems are yesterday's solutions. Don Beck

          by Sherri in TX on Tue Apr 13, 2010 at 05:22:22 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  Definitely stimulated our economy (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        phonegery

        since my spouse has been off on FMLA helping his disabled mother in the wake of her husband's death -- came in just in time to help us pay this month's rent (we'll go out and stimulate the economy once we get reimbursed for the time off).

        The risk we take in opening our hearts to love, is learning to say goodbye.

        by Cali Scribe on Tue Apr 13, 2010 at 05:04:32 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  I'm sorry to hear about you father in law. (0+ / 0-)

          It sounds like a real struggle in your neck of the woods.  Best wishes to you and yours Cali Scribe.  I'll keep my fingers crossed.

          Picture a bright blue ball just spinnin' spinnin' free. It's dizzy with possibility.

          by lockewasright on Tue Apr 13, 2010 at 05:12:28 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

    •  Give it to me then (5+ / 0-)

      Sheesh. Talk about tough to please.

    •  Agreed. (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      The Nose, condorcet

      It would have been much better to give the ultra rich another few thousand a week.

      Still a man hears what he wants to hear And disregards the rest

      by Mike S on Tue Apr 13, 2010 at 04:54:44 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Obama made a mistake (12+ / 0-)
    He should have done his tax cuts like Bush did - through refund checks.  He can't expect the dumbasses in this country to perceive a tax cut unless they can actually hold evidence of it in their hands.  
  •  So let's get this straight (12+ / 0-)
    77% of Americans are absolutely wrong on Obama's tax policy. Who's to blame for this? The media? The White house? Someone isn't getting the story out the way they should be.

    "I don't want a line in the Sand lines can be moved. They can be blown away. I want a six foot trench carved into granite."

    by theone718 on Tue Apr 13, 2010 at 04:37:03 PM PDT

  •  Messaging from the WH sucks. (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    nobody at all, SBoswell, theone718

    Axelrod is in way over his greasy head.

    Jesus was a Socialist.

    by Bush Bites on Tue Apr 13, 2010 at 04:37:28 PM PDT

  •  earned more.... (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    The Nose, lockewasright

    still getting more back.

    You shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you mad. Aldous Huxley

    by murrayewv on Tue Apr 13, 2010 at 04:38:05 PM PDT

  •  Not only am I getting more back, but so are (4+ / 0-)

    my wingnut relatives.  They're also being given money to live on while they both go back to college (also paid for) and their daughter's new baby is 100% covered and paid for.  
    They tell me all this, and then continue to bash Democrats.  What do they think would have happened under a Prez McCain?  Do they honestly think he would have given 2 whoops about any of them?

  •  Instead of a tax break I'd like simpler forms, (5+ / 0-)

    easier-to-understand tax code, and a return to Eisenhower-era progressive tax rates.

    I would also like an audit of the Pentagon and laws against the revolving door that lets people use government positions to curry favor with high-paying bosses in their next job.

    Breaks? I'd like a break in the cost of housing! Much more of a problem than my taxes.

    Media Reform Action Link http://stopbigmedia.com/

    by LNK on Tue Apr 13, 2010 at 04:42:47 PM PDT

  •  I just did mine. (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    sherlyle, lockewasright

    Holy smokes! I'm getting a lot back.

  •  they're right for the wrong reason... (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    coffeetalk

    tax cuts while running deficits aren't tax cuts at all.  They're tax deferrals.

    No one had trouble understanding this during the Bush years.

    When it comes time to pay the bill we'll see who's actually got a tax cut.

  •  thanks for posting the median value (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    The Nose, sherlyle, condorcet

    much more significant than average, in this case.  Back when W was harping his tax cut it was something like $1300 average, but really only $300 median (if memory serves).  Quite a difference, since the average (median? ha) listener to W thought they were getting $1300 big ones back!

  •  unfortunately (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    badger1968

    i owe about $1,700.  i do blame it on my lack of withholding in 2009. fixing that this year. still lame.  apparently the u.s. gov't doesn't value my son as highly as i do.

  •  I remember hearing about this back in 2008 (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    sherlyle

    glad it was real :-)

    "Virtues die, vices triumph, honesty perishes, pity is stifled, avarice pervades, confusion overwhelms, order vanishes." - Barbara Tuchman; A Distant Mirror

    by Miep on Tue Apr 13, 2010 at 04:45:54 PM PDT

    •  well, maybe early 2009 (0+ / 0-)

      but in that ballpark.

      "Virtues die, vices triumph, honesty perishes, pity is stifled, avarice pervades, confusion overwhelms, order vanishes." - Barbara Tuchman; A Distant Mirror

      by Miep on Tue Apr 13, 2010 at 04:47:45 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Giving 1/3 of my salary to BCBS ensured (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    The Nose, sherlyle, badger1968, Losty

    a hefty refund.

    "I reject the... claim that the President has plenary authority to detain U.S. citizens without charges..."--B. Obama, missing since 2008

    by just some lurker guy on Tue Apr 13, 2010 at 04:46:07 PM PDT

  •  All right wingers are free to send their refunds (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    eXtina

    to Haiti, or the charity of your choice.

    "I still say a church steeple with a lightning rod on top shows a lack of confidence."

    by logsol on Tue Apr 13, 2010 at 04:46:32 PM PDT

  •  Well, then the 2% protesting outside the (0+ / 0-)

    IRS offices in a couple of days will all be 'Billionaires for Bush' .. or delusional Bircher/Bagger asshats.

  •  What was the point of passing a tax cut? (4+ / 0-)

    If nobody knows about it?

    The next thing I expect to hear is that Obama has built a doomsday bomb.

  •  I think we should propose... (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    The Nose

    a massive bill with all the lies and distortions the Republicans are misrepresenting and have an up or down vote on them with 100% of the Democrats voting against it...that would be a big effing deal...

    Obama - Change I still believe in

    by dvogel001 on Tue Apr 13, 2010 at 04:49:22 PM PDT

  •  Purely anecdotal (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    eXtina

    but I was speaking with my accountant today as he prepared my tax return (speaking of procrastinating, ha ha), and asked him how business has been. He said that he experienced a very untypical lull in business right around the middle of March. It seems that people had been in an unusual rush to file their returns, thanks to the refunds that so many of them are getting.

    Then his business picked back up this week, thanks to people like me.

    Harry Reid: Float like Barney Fife, sting like Aunt Bea.

    by MeMeMeMeMe on Tue Apr 13, 2010 at 04:49:34 PM PDT

    •  Got to meet with my in-laws' accountant (0+ / 0-)

      We filed extension back in February when it was obvious we'd never get the paperwork together in time -- now that father-in-law is gone, and he was the one who took care of all the financials, guess this former accounting major is going to be back in the saddle.

      The risk we take in opening our hearts to love, is learning to say goodbye.

      by Cali Scribe on Tue Apr 13, 2010 at 05:10:00 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  I was just telling my moderate friend at work (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    eXtina

    that tax return season will be stimulative.  

    Picture a bright blue ball just spinnin' spinnin' free. It's dizzy with possibility.

    by lockewasright on Tue Apr 13, 2010 at 04:50:03 PM PDT

  •  i got $ 5000 back (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    condorcet, eXtina

    and saved it.

    good thing too because I was laid off almost a month later.

  •  No one is getting this message out there! (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    The Nose, marzook, eXtina

    I wouldn't have known this at all unless it was posted here.  Shouldn't the White House be trumpeting this up and down Main Street?

    I just can't understand why Democrats are such under-achievers in the messaging department.  It's very frustrating...

    The only political announcements I have seen today have been about Mitch McConnell saying that the new Financial Reform bill will guarantee that taxpayers will have to bail out the banks again.

    Of course, it's not true. Media Matters dissected and exposed the lies quite easily, but I had to go to their web site to find out.

    BTW, I got back my tax refund already - the biggest I have ever received in my life!

  •  The deficit is lower this year too. (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    eXtina

    Axelrod will fail to help Obama get credit for that too, so I figured I'd tell you.

    Jesus was a Socialist.

    by Bush Bites on Tue Apr 13, 2010 at 04:50:21 PM PDT

  •  I don't know how people missed it. (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    brillo, wmholt, condorcet, Losty

    It's been on the front page of every major paper, all over the netwoork and cable news and the Democrats have been touting it at every opportunity.

    What's that you say? None of that is true?

    Never Mind.

    Still a man hears what he wants to hear And disregards the rest

    by Mike S on Tue Apr 13, 2010 at 04:50:50 PM PDT

  •  What Obama gave, the states took away (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Mr MadAsHell

    While Federal taxes went down slightly for most people, many states raised taxes, including highly visible taxes like the sales tax; in many cases (for example, in California) the tax increases were skewed to take the most from the lower middle class, sparing the rich.

    •  somehow I would rather pay my taxes (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      The Nose

      to the state than the federal government. I guess because i'm in a blue state that traditionally gives more than it gets back. and this way at least my taxes aren't going into the defense budget.

  •  i am a 1099 worker (0+ / 0-)

    so I have to write a big check...

    but the check I have to write is about $3,000 less than I had estimated, so that's kind of like a tax cut :-D

    "Politics is like driving. To go backward put it in R. To go forward put it in D."
    --Tom Harkin

    by TrueBlueMajority on Tue Apr 13, 2010 at 04:55:11 PM PDT

  •  I got a bump up (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    eXtina

    in my fed refund - and I file as a single person with no dependents - with a decent middle class income - I didn't believe it at first so pulled out last year's returns to check. About the same income, no other significant changes, and I'm getting about $600 more than I did last year.

    My state taxes are higher to shore up the faltering budget, I don't mind, but at least we're not as broke-ass broke as some of the other western states.

  •  We definitely noticed it. (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    eXtina

    At first I thought we had made a mistake (I had been thinking we might not be getting back anything.)  

  •  It is less astonishing... (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Alice in Florida, eXtina

    It is less astonishing but more pertinent that the democrats are failing, big time, to get their message out.  They should be on every talk show, constantly, shouting about how they've lowered taxes, created more jobs and saved the economy.  Heck, they should even exaggerate it a little bit, to match the rhetoric coming not only from the other direction, but from the supposedly 'neutral' media.

  •  Cognitive dissonance (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    The Nose, condorcet, eXtina

    A fellow employee complained in February of 2009 that Obama was taking his money through higher taxes.  I showed him my earnings statement (the same pay rate as he had) from our 1st paycheck in January of 2009 to the February pay stub.  More money to take home.  In black and white.  Right in front of his eyes.  Don't know why, but he has never spoken to me since.

  •  I was surprised (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    cany

    this year to see a new credit available to me as a student (part-time, non-traditional...blah blah). Prior to this year, I only noticed the Hope credit and this year there is a Lifetime Learning and one other credit. I actually qualified for one! I was thrilled. Not only that, but I was able to deduct the cost of my text books and equipment. Very nice.

    Yes, there needs to be better messaging about this.

    You're only as important as the good you put out into the world.

    by gratis4 on Tue Apr 13, 2010 at 05:00:06 PM PDT

  •  I didn't get the memo. (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    The Nose, bigchin, SBoswell

    Writing out a largish check to the IRS. The good news is, we're just a couple years from paying off our mortgage. The bad news is, our itemized deductions this year were lower than the standardized one.

    On the other hand, it's probably a couple hundred bucks less of a bill than it would have been under McCain/Palin - assuming the armed forces hadn't started drafting mid-40's people to fight one of the sixteen new wars they would have started.

    •  The reality is that (0+ / 0-)

      It was a puny tax cut that looked even punier since it was credited over a year. That's just it plain n simple...there was really no need for this diary to go into histrionics about how this equates to "Hussein had WMDs" cognitive dissonance

      •  If the Republicans had done this it would be (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        thegrump

        repeated on every news cast and in every debate and in every pundit show until hell freezes over.

        Talking point for every other paragraph "We cut taxes for 98% of the people".  Repeat at next opportunity.

        "I know no safe depository for the ultimate power of society but the people themselves" -- Jefferson

        by TheTrucker on Tue Apr 13, 2010 at 05:54:03 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  Don't tell me you're all this dense (0+ / 0-)

    As other commentators have said, of course no one's going to notice a puny $10 bucks a week in their paychecks. When they see the amounts taken from all the state, local, fed, soc sec, medicare, A lump $250 sum will still seem like chump change. So if they were told about it in their face, they would've likely rolled their eyes and said "Big Whoop". For all those getting giddy about their biggest refunds they've ever seen, please adjust your withholding and stop lending the IRS your hard earned money interest-free.

    •  We are all very intelligent, thank you (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      The Nose, eXtina, therealtarzan

      Obama and the Federal government did about all they could to soften the blow of state tax increases.  They sent lots of money to the states because they knew the recession would hit them very hard.  The state governments cut back on about everything (at least they did here in Washington State).  They are now working 4 days a week here at the county court house and drawing lower salaries.  The state poverty stuff including medical insurance has been about wiped out.  And the tax increases here have been almost non existent.  Real estate valuations have fallen like every where else so that revenue is down somewhat also.  All the rest of the crap you are spewing is also irrelevant.  Your Medicare and FICA taxes have not been increased at all.  My state and local taxes have not increased. If you have a problem talk to your state government about it and quit criticizing the FEDS and Obama.

      The point is VALID AND INESCAPABLE!  The stimulus bill cut taxes for 98% of the people in this nation.  That is a claim that will stand regardless of all the Republican pig crap. And that FACT needs to be repeated ad nauseum.

      "I know no safe depository for the ultimate power of society but the people themselves" -- Jefferson

      by TheTrucker on Tue Apr 13, 2010 at 05:50:30 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  You missed my point (0+ / 0-)

        so I won't address 90% of your post. I wasn't talking about what was increased or what wasn't increased or anything about state budgets. I'm talking about how a $250 tax cut looks puny to most people when compare it to the thousand+ dollars taken away in the aforementioned taxes listed on their paycheck summaries. Take a deep breath. And blow.

  •  I didn't notice the withholding decrease (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    icemilkcoffee

    we got early in 2009, with the way my employer does pay periods and deductions for insurance and such, no two paychecks are ever the same, and I make enough that I didn't notice the $20 increase per check or whatever it was, but I got a nice refund back, mainly thanks to being able to deduct student loan interest (I paid back more than the maximum they let you deduct, but 2009 was my first full year out of college so I was paying down the interest first) and the new car sales tax deduction. Plus, I think I could adjust my withholdings and have more take home pay and a smaller refund, but I like getting the big check every spring, even if it is an interest free loan to Uncle Sam. And my refund isn't enough that if I stuck it in a savings account, even a high interest online one, I'd see a significant amount of interest, perhaps 20 bucks if that?

    Economics: The science of explaining tomorrow why the predictions you made yesterday didn't come true today

    by yg17 on Tue Apr 13, 2010 at 05:27:31 PM PDT

  •  The polls (0+ / 0-)

    I got a decent amount back this year, even on the state level. If you flip on any major media outlet - CNN, Fox, like most people do your hearing how taxes have gone up.
    I am not arguing with you, but it seems tea party a holes and the unhappy have dominated the landscape of 'news'. My property and school taxes have gone up, tremendously actually, so it all seems relevant to me. My income tax rebate 'increase' was taken back and then some.
    Once again, I am not arguing.

    Let me put it this way - people want all the services the government offers but they don't want to pay for it. People who lease property complain about property taxes, but of course they never complain about the section 8 subsidy they get for tenants . I could go on and on and on - but you know the story.
    Obama can't and won't get a break from the media. As long as the MSM keeps harping on epic deficits they forgot about while their parent companies were raping the tax payer for an illegal war and Obama even hints at helping the working class , they'll broadcast anything to make him look bad. Most people investigate no further.
    In their defense, when your property tax increases $150 a year, school taxes go up $300 the same year and county taxes go up $75, the $450 you got back extra in personal income tax is already gone.
    I don't mind taxes . I don't mind paying my fair share as long as everyone else is. Maybe I am odd.

    you can't remain neutral on a moving train

    by rmfcjr on Tue Apr 13, 2010 at 05:30:25 PM PDT

  •  Wahhhhhhhhh!!!!!! I didn't get a refund! (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    The Nose, Losty, icemilkcoffee

    But my only income was social security and I paid no taxes.  I live like a monk in a small house in which I managed to INVEST for my retirement.  The house is located in an area not desirable to those who must commute to work. Even so, I get tax breaks on the house because I am a coot.  I served my country in the US Navy and have VA medical so no health care expenses.  That was the plan and I'm stickin' to it.  I will be buried in a VA cemetery.  I am a very inexpensive retiree.

    Yet I still do all I can for Health Care Reform and hope for Single Payer for the rest of the people.  I want higher wages for the productive people in the society and I try to do that too.  I want import duties and more progressive taxation in income taxes and Medicare taxes.  And I want more regulations on the financial sector.  NONE OF THIS BENEFITS ME except maybe the financial regulation.  As a matter of fact as prices rise I will probably get hurt.  But the working people need batter wages than they are getting.  I do not want to see my country destroyed by hucksters.

    "I know no safe depository for the ultimate power of society but the people themselves" -- Jefferson

    by TheTrucker on Tue Apr 13, 2010 at 05:32:42 PM PDT

  •  Blame the MSM (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    TheTrucker, eXtina

    They kept saying that withholding was being reduced. The public has been stung on that one before (Ford? Carter?), finding a huge tax bill at the end f the year because only withholding was reduced, not the tax rates.  The MSM never said taxes were being reduced, only withholding and Dem Senators never corrected them, repeating only that withholding was being reduced.

    I didn't realize that there was an $800 credit myself until I started my taxes in March.

  •  Had a friend in a similar situation (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    The Nose

    mention they thought they'd paid more this year. Had to go back and dig through the numbers. My refund was lower than last year but my overal taxes did go down a few hundred. Will have to point that out when I talk to them again.

  •  This is truly insane (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    TheTrucker

    yes the stereotype will take a long time to dislodge. So the Democrats ought to really start bringing up the subject that almost everyone has gotten a tax cut.

  •  Turning the narrative will take time. (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    eXtina, RvgAqs

    And here's a breathtaking revelation elected Democrats would be surprised to hear:

    it'll take even more time as Democrats remain largely silent in the battle of the narrative.

    More and Better Democrats

    by SJerseyIndy on Tue Apr 13, 2010 at 06:03:02 PM PDT

  •  It isnt the lies being told its the totally inept (0+ / 0-)

    messaging of the Democratic establishment not repeating this since last year on every chat show, at every opportunity - every time they open their mouths this should have been mantra. They have completely fucked up this opportunity and now have to backfill just to get to even against the perception that he has raised their taxes. A totally avoidable and sadly predictable pathetic fuckup of limp dick messaging by the DNC and the Dem leadership. What a bunch of morons. They need to quit polling and start prosletyzing already.

    post hoc, ergo propter hoc

    by RvgAqs on Tue Apr 13, 2010 at 06:07:59 PM PDT

  •  bush tax cut = 300 bucks. making work pay = 400 (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    The Nose

    that was for single folks like me with no kids.
    and the 400 was in addition to the little bump we got on our take home pay. the big difference? bush spent god knows how much mailing the 300 buck check to everyone in the county, and also doing another mailing prior to mailing the check, (if i remember correctly,) bragging about how we were getting it...it was basically a political (pro gop / pro bush) mailer done on the backs of the taxpayers. i can't image what those two mailings cost, since they went to every taxpayer in the country, but i assume a similar horn-tooting expenditure was viewed by the obama administration as a waste ...but of course, they  haven't learned you gotta pander to the lowest common denominator. (see the outcry about cutting the bank middle men out of the federal student loan program.)i also got a sales tax deduction for the new car i bought, since i didn't qualify for cash for clunkers (as i was trading in one fuel efficient car for another).

    Change is inevitable. Change for the better is a full-time job. -- Adlai E. Stevenson

    by marzook on Tue Apr 13, 2010 at 06:38:14 PM PDT

  •  Married Filing Jointly issues? (0+ / 0-)

    Folks up-thread mentioned something about some possible issues with the withholding tables for married filing jointly.

    Does anyone have more info?

    I was surprised by how much we owed this year and I just could not figure out what happened. My hubby and I make just about the same salary and we don't have kids - we don't get the big refunds that most people talk about...

  •  Obama didn't lower taxes (0+ / 0-)

    Congress did. You see, the Constitution clearly states that Congress, not the President, has the power to levy taxes. So Obama didn't lower taxes for anyone. If you want to start clearing up misconceptions, you might start with basic misconceptions about the role of the executive and legislative branches of the Federal Government.

    It was this kind of basic misconception about the role of the President that enabled Mr. Obama to gain the office.

    Lowering taxes for 98 percent of working families sounds good on the surface, but since there were no commensurate cuts in spending, the government has merely foisted the cost of those cuts on the next generation. Sooner we're going to run out of credit cards to put the bill on, and we'll have to cough up some actual money to pay for these "tax cuts".

    Insert standard "Fox News Talking Point" rebuttal here. But keep in mind this isn't a Republican problem or a Democrat problem, it's a Federal Government problem, and therefore, OUR problem

    The President is the Commander in Chief of the Armed Forces. He signs bills into law. He can veto bills sent from Congress. He can't lower taxes, raise taxes, impose taxes, provide health care or create jobs.

    As far as stereotyping democrats as "tax and spend", I don't think that Democrats are any worse than Republicans. They're just more out in the open about it.

    However, if the Democrats want to shed the "tax and spend" stigma, they shouldn't have passed Health Care Reform. That thing is filled with new taxes and lavish spending. There are taxes on medical equipment, insurance plans, and increased payroll taxes. There's lots and lots of spending in that thing too. It costs money to set up "exchanges", create new government offices, and pay for all the entitlements that the bill calls for. That sounds a lot like "tax and spend" to me.

    I think a better way to tax would be to tax the same proportion of income from everyone. While I'm not a big fan of paying taxes, I recognize the need for them. The government needs to function, and can't do so without money. But I don't think another person should shoulder a greater or lesser portion of that burden than I am expected to shoulder.

  •  Your share of the debt is $116,600... (0+ / 0-)

    ...if you're a taxpayer, that is

    http://www.usdebtclock.org/

    Is it really a good thing to borrow even more?

    Senator Fritz Hollings (D, S.C.) must be rolling in his grave -- the only man brave enough to point out that there has been no actual Federal budget surplus since Johnson was in office.

    Imagine what good we could do if we didn't have to play $200 bb in interest this year!

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