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One thing that has astounded me from watching the talking head shows, particularly in the last week, is that nobody seems to have a sense of urgency about why its taking so long to stop the leak.  The only person I've actually seen show some emotion about the issue is Chris Matthews.

Even environmentalists, who you would think would be the fiercest advocates for stopping the spill, have been coming on these talk shows the past couple of weeks, and they just talk about how America needs to reduce its dependence on oil, or we need more regulation of the oil industry.

That is a bit like advocating for fire-proof houses while you watch your house burn to the ground.

Here is a website that I just started that is actually counting the number of gallons of oil that is being released into the Gulf of Mexico each second:

Oilmageddon in the Gulf

The numbers are astounding, and the 50,000 barrels of oil per day that I am currently using to calculate the number is actually on the conservative side.

It just seems to me like the media, environmentalists, and the government, are all just waiting for BP to fix the problem.  Where is the team of scientists working around the clock on how to solve the problem?

Originally posted to kronius on Sun May 23, 2010 at 07:52 PM PDT.

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Comment Preferences

  •  Anyone who thinks that only Netroots people (13+ / 0-)

    perceive Obama's response as limp and slow: I'm currently sitting in a Eugene bar, and the whole table just to my right is full of random middle-aged folks ranting about how bad the response has been. So now you're going to have to tell me that Eugene isn't his base either …

    “If I can't dance to it, it's not my revolution.” — Emma Goldman

    by Jyrinx on Sun May 23, 2010 at 07:58:54 PM PDT

    •  They're going to love tomorrow's NYT story -- (21+ / 0-)

      Despite Obama’s Moratorium, Drilling Projects Move Ahead

      By IAN URBINA
      Published: May 23, 2010

      WASHINGTON — In the days since President Obama announced a moratorium on permits for drilling new offshore oil wells and a halt to a controversial type of environmental waiver that was given to the Deepwater Horizon rig, at least seven new drilling permits and five waivers have been granted, according to records.

      The records also indicate that since the April 20 explosion on the rig, federal regulators have granted at least 19 environmental waivers for gulf drilling projects and at least 17 drilling permits, most of which were for types of work like that on the Deepwater Horizon shortly before it exploded, pouring a ceaseless current of oil into the Gulf of Mexico.

      Asked about the permits and waivers, officials at the Department of the Interior and the Minerals Management Service, which regulates drilling, pointed to public statements by Interior Secretary Ken Salazar, reiterating that the agency had no intention of stopping all new oil and gas production in the gulf.

      I feel like I'm watching the end of a presidency, the dashing of a realignment, and the shattering of a coalition... all of which probably had to happen anyway in order to tackle the calamities the next twenty years are going to offer worldwide.  But I thought we had a shot here...

    •  What Obama is doing (7+ / 0-)

      What Obama is doing is exactly what he should be doing. Every related federal agency is involved. The best minds have been brought in to work on the problem.

      This is a catastrophe unlike any we have ever faced. The technical issues of dealing with this blowout under 5,000 feet of water are enormous. Its not as if Obama could just send a Seal team down to fix the leak, and has chosen not to.

      Drilling at this depth of water should never have been allowed without verifiable and proven measures to deal with a disaster like this. But the driling was allowed, the disaster has happened, and Obama's team is working to develop a fix to it on the fly.

  •  wait six months (9+ / 0-)

    when the economy has collapsed and the whole Gulf is poisoned.

    Then there will be a sense of urgency.

    Till then--"The Dow plunged 1000 today but steadied itself just before closing. Coal and natural gas futures are up--", yadda yadda yadda.

    This is not just the end of the Obama presidency, but the end of America as we knew it. It's going to be a life of high unemployment, scarce food and fuel and healthcare, and violent civil unrest met with the iron fist of the state. For everyone, everywhere.

    "In America, the law is king." --Thomas Paine

    by limpidglass on Sun May 23, 2010 at 07:59:56 PM PDT

  •  Any suggestion as to (16+ / 0-)

    how you would make this gusher stop sooner?  You do realize the entire National Contingency Plan contingent of agencies was deployed on April 21.  Honestly, I understand frustration, but other than ericlewis no one seems to have a cogent engineering solution.

    •  And Fishgrease. (10+ / 0-)

      Besides, what we need from the President isn't so much a solution as half a sense of leadership. And continuing to go by the official figures of the flow volume despite their clearly being lowballed by BP is not a good way to show leadership.

      “If I can't dance to it, it's not my revolution.” — Emma Goldman

      by Jyrinx on Sun May 23, 2010 at 08:06:27 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Exactly. (8+ / 0-)

        No one, please, tell us that what we want is for Obama to plug the geyser.

        That is disrespectful and way out of line. Leadership, and strength and using all the power at his disposal to stop the geyser, enforce environmental protections and kick BP's ass. Not to mention becoming the Commander in Chief of our Armed Forces again and not letting BP order our Coast Guard around.

        Not to throw shoes is the crime. Not to be outraged is the crime.

        by the girl on Sun May 23, 2010 at 08:25:58 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  I'd like transparency at all levels--government (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          neroden, the girl

          and industrial.  

          If they know they can't fix it until October (time it's likely to take to get a slant line into the existing casing), then they dang well ought to say so.

          The smoke and mirrors in the meantime ain't so hot.

          Has anyone looked at how long it took to deflect and capture the flow of oil spewing from the rigs outside of Kuwait when Iraq bombed those.

          Months.

          And those were at 160 feet depth or less.

          Not much transparency then either.

    •  if you have been reading here you would certainly (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Badabing, Jyrinx, the girl

      have seen references to nick pozzi's suggestion.  don't have a link handy, but his idea references how the saudi's used tankers to siphon up the oil.  seems like a worthy idea and certainly bp has the tankers.

    •  an even more vigorous effort (6+ / 0-)

      is needed. A crash government program hiring the best scientific minds in America to tackle the problem of sealing the well. They need to be given unlimited funds to do this.

      Then there needs to be a Manhattan Project-style program to devise an alternative to the internal combustion engine, followed by a massive push to manufacture vehicles that run on this alternative method of propulsion.

      We're talking about a effort comparable to the effort that put a man on the moon, and that rearmed America for World War II.

      Only the president of the United States is in a position to ask this of the American people and galvanize Congress into action. And he's been out to lunch so far.

      "In America, the law is king." --Thomas Paine

      by limpidglass on Sun May 23, 2010 at 08:13:23 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  you think the effort has been weak? (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        balancedscales, soms, flhiii88

        I submit that you haven't a frigging clue as to the dimensions of either the problem or the effort to fix it.

         
        "Then there needs to be a Manhattan Project-style program …"

        Could we keep the focus on the here and now? You aren't seriously complaining that Obama has announced something as gigantic as that in the midst of this emergency?

         
        "And he's been out to lunch so far."

        And you've been in a freaking coma—FOXNews-induced or not—for the past year, i see.

      •  And unlimited information. (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        limpidglass
      •  um... that's what they did! (4+ / 0-)

        is needed. A crash government program hiring the best scientific minds in America to tackle the problem of sealing the well. They need to be given unlimited funds to do this.

        From the LA Times:

        Hundreds of engineers from universities, rival oil companies and the federal government immediately went back to work, in shifts lasting 13 hours or more.

        "Anyone who we think could make a difference, we brought in," said Kent Wells, BP's senior vice president for exploration and production.

        Then came the "dream team" that President Obama had ordered his Nobel-winning energy secretary, Steven Chu, to assemble: out-of-the-box thinkers including a nuclear physicist, a pioneer on Mars drilling techniques, an MIT professor whose research interests include "going faster on my snowboard," an expert on the hydrogen bomb, and a controversial astrophysicist who was later booted over a past essay defending homophobia.

        ...

        Because money is no object, engineers order parts as soon as they dream up a new plan. "If we build a $100,000 piece of equipment and we don't use it, it's not the end of the world," Wells said.

        There's no shortage of government help, either. Customs and immigration officials have helped expedite import of parts that didn't exist in the United States — and the arrival of scientists from other countries.

        The best scientists and engineers from around the world with a more or less unlimited budget!

        Read the article... Perhaps you'll feel better...

        •  that part, they are doing (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          scotths

          But the other part--the part that addresses the larger problem--they are not.

          "In America, the law is king." --Thomas Paine

          by limpidglass on Sun May 23, 2010 at 09:43:53 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  true.. but they (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            flhiii88

            have taken action to begin a transformation to alternative energy sources. Wind mills are being erected at a faster and faster rate, plans are in place for the first new nuclear reactors in decades, agreements have been made with China and other countries to develop new forms of energy, cap and trade legislation was passed by the house and will hopefully make its way though the Senate soon....

            These and many other steps have been taken to begin to reduce our dependence on fossil fuels..

  •  An equal case for urgency can be made re (12+ / 0-)

    our planet's excessive reliance on fossil fuels.  I know Obama has ordered Fed people to help out BP.  It's my personal opinion that nothing can be done until August, the Gulf will be irreparably harmed, and that demanding more be done won't affect the narrative.  It's also my personal belief that the President can -- but, so far, isn't choosing to -- use the crisis to pivot from the immediate symptom to the larger cause, i.e., our reliance on fossil fuels.  That will irreparably harm our planet unless a change is made; and demanding a change may affect the narrative.  Hence, my focus.

    •  We should start a checklist (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      conchita, neroden, mightymouse, Jyrinx

      of missed opportunities for teachable moments. It will give us something to do while we watch the Gulf die.

      This President has missed many opportunities for so many things, and I don't know how he can look us in the eye and ask for our support again.

      Not to throw shoes is the crime. Not to be outraged is the crime.

      by the girl on Sun May 23, 2010 at 08:29:15 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  oh...man... (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        balancedscales, flhiii88

        Do you think there's anyone that wouldn't stop that leak this second if they could? That hole in the ground is so deep you can't even take a sub down there.

        If we are watching the Gulf die, it's not because of Obama and it's not because one dispersant is used rather than another. This is a full-on f*cking mega disaster and none of the President's "missed opportunities" mean a damn thing as to whether and when the leak is stopped. Oh, and BP isn't slowing things down to get more oil through its little straw.

        Name some real missed oppurtunities in this crisis, please, that would actually make a damn difference. Regulation??? great idea but it won't do anything to stop this leak.

        Better press conferences? More effective leadership?!?!?!

        •  Moratorium on "categorical exclusions" (0+ / 0-)

          from environmental law for super-deep drilling?  What a good idea!

          So of course Salazar didn't do that and is still issuing categorical exclusions.  As of NOW.

          There's your missed opportunity and it means a damn thing.

          -5.63, -8.10. Learn about Duverger's Law.

          by neroden on Mon May 24, 2010 at 01:22:51 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

  •  Appears that nobody knows what to do (8+ / 0-)

    to stop the leak.  Yelling and screaming isn't going to speed up the process.

    That said, there's no excuse for not collecting and releasing the data on how much oil and gas has been and is spewing.  That information won't change the effects of the releases but may give scientists and Gulf Coast seafood industry folks the opportunity to prepare.
     

    "Dulled conscience, irresponsibility, and ruthless self-interest already reappear. Such symptoms of prosperity may become portents of disaster!" FDR - 1937

    by Marie on Sun May 23, 2010 at 08:05:30 PM PDT

  •  The President's moratorium is being ignored... (14+ / 0-)

    In the days since President Obama announced a moratorium on permits for drilling new offshore oil wells and a halt to a controversial type of environmental waiver that was given to the Deepwater Horizon rig, at least seven new drilling permits and five waivers have been granted, according to records.

    Despite Obama's Moratorium, Drilling Projects Move Ahead

    Nice to know the buck stops nowhere in particular.

    y el canto de todos que es mi propio canto

    by gatorbot on Sun May 23, 2010 at 08:12:15 PM PDT

  •  I think the satisfying answer is for Obama... (4+ / 0-)

    To hire a look-alike stand-in who can get out in front of the TV cameras several times a day, rant and rave, toss stuff around the Rose Garden, and scream invectives at the clouds.

    That should satisfy all the people who don't take the time to learn what is being done.

    And it would leave Obama free to keep on working quietly and being extremely successful.

    That "hopey-changey thing"? Takes a Magic Hawaiian to pull it off...

    by BobTrips on Sun May 23, 2010 at 08:13:22 PM PDT

    •  Extremely successful?! (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      conchita, neroden, mightymouse, the girl

      Cripes, I don't know where you see success, much less extreme success.

      “If I can't dance to it, it's not my revolution.” — Emma Goldman

      by Jyrinx on Sun May 23, 2010 at 08:16:30 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  It's pretty easy. There's this thing called... (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        bear83, Diogenes2008, flhiii88

        Google.  You put in words like "Obama accomplishments" and out pops pages of accomplishments.  Here's a little example for you, just to whet your interest...

        #1 Health Care Reform

        President Obama's sweeping health care reform bill establishes health care coverage as a right for all Americans. It expands coverage to 32 million more Americans while simultaneously reducing the deficit by $1.3 trillion over the next 20 years. It also makes illegal many of the health insurance industry's worst tactics for making more profit at the cost of people's health (including denying coverage for people with pre-existing conditions.)

        #2 Successful Economic Stimulus

        When Barack Obama took over the Presidency the country's economy was heading straight down due to the distrous policies of George W. Bush. In February Obama signed the stimulus into law and it has helped to stem the job losses. In fact economists say that over one million jobs have either been saved or added due to it.

        #3 Eliminating Wasteful Spending

        The elimination of the F-22 fight jet program is an example of some of the wasteful spending that Obama has eliminated as President.

        #4 Sonia Sotomayor

        Obama's first Supreme Court nominee was successful. She became the very first hispanic on the Supreme Court and only the 3rd woman.

        #5 Credit Card Reform

        The credit card reform bill that Obama signed in May of 2009 has helped to provide new protections for customers.

        #6 Stem Cell Research

        In May of '09 Obama signed an executive order allowing more federal money to be used for very important stem cell research.

        And that's such a short list.  It leaves out so, so much.  I'm sure you'll have a great time informing yourself.

        Enjoy!

        That "hopey-changey thing"? Takes a Magic Hawaiian to pull it off...

        by BobTrips on Sun May 23, 2010 at 08:31:27 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Oh. Silly me, thinking you were saying something (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          conchita, neroden

          relevant to the topic at hand.

          “If I can't dance to it, it's not my revolution.” — Emma Goldman

          by Jyrinx on Sun May 23, 2010 at 08:32:53 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Seeing how you seem to be a bit lazy... (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            flhiii88

            Here - I looked up someone else's list for you...

            In his first 100 days, President Obama has done a remarkable job of addressing all of the issues on my agenda, and then some. Here is a list of the Obama administration’s key environmental accomplishments during the president’s first 100 days in office:

               * Worked with Congress to pass the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act, a $787 billion economic stimulus package that includes nearly $100 billion in green spending to help get the economy back on track and to create millions of clean-energy jobs.

               * Outlined a "clean energy" vision for America.

               * Appointed an outstanding "green team" of top advisors, federal officials and cabinet secretaries.

               * Sent Congress a proposed budget that makes clean energy and the environment top priorities and includes funding for energy and environmental programs throughout the federal government.

               * Declared carbon dioxide and other greenhouse gases a threat to public health and welfare, setting the stage for regulating greenhouse gas emissions that contribute to global warming if Congress fails to pass legislation to address the issue.

               * Protected more than 2 million acres of wilderness land and several rivers with the Omnibus Public Land Management Act of 2009..

               * Re-established the United States as a leader in international climate negotiations.

               * Restored critical protections under the Endangered Species Act, which had been removed by a last-minute rule change in the final days of the Bush administration.

               * Ordered the Environmental Protection Agency to reconsider its decision to deny California a waiver under the Clean Air Act, which would have enabled California and 17 other states to impose stricter-than-federal limits on greenhouse gas emissions from motor vehicles.

               * Reversed the Bush rule that opened the door to mountaintop removal coal mining and canceled several individual mountaintop mining permits.

               * Put offshore drilling and oil shale exploration on hold and restored protections for public lands.

               * Announced a new initiative to lease U.S. coastal waters for the purpose of generating electricity from wind and ocean currents.

               * Repeatedly reaffirmed science and the rule of law as the standards by which federal environmental decisions shall be made.

            "It is difficult to overstate the tremendous progress President Obama has made in just 100 days," said Sierra Club Executive Director Carl Pope in a statement. "He has moved swifter and smarter than any president in recent memory. While naysayers warned of doing too much too quickly, President Obama maintained his resolve and his boldness is backed by overwhelming majorities of the American public.

            "President Obama has done more to lay the foundation for the clean energy future in three months than has been done in the previous three decades," Pope continued. "His economic recovery plan, the budget, and a sweeping set of executive branch actions amount to a huge down payment on a cleaner, more prosperous future."

            That "hopey-changey thing"? Takes a Magic Hawaiian to pull it off...

            by BobTrips on Sun May 23, 2010 at 08:43:29 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Again, the relevance, it is left wanting. n/t (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              jimreyn

              “If I can't dance to it, it's not my revolution.” — Emma Goldman

              by Jyrinx on Sun May 23, 2010 at 08:44:56 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

            •  And here's a 'first year' list that someone else (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Diogenes2008, flhiii88

              posted...

              Passing stimulus, generating jobs. On February 17, 2009, Obama signed  the $787 billion stimulus bill into law. In December 2009, the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office issued a report estimating  that "in the third quarter of calendar year 2009, an additional 600,000 to 1.6 million people were employed in the United States" due to that legislation. According  to the White House Council of Economic Advisers, CBO has increased its estimate to 800,000 to 2.4 million additional employed through the fourth quarter of that year. Moreover, a November 20, 2009, New York Times article reported  that the "consensus" among "dispassionate analysts" is that "the stimulus package, messy as it is, is working," citing  nonpartisan analyses of gross domestic product and total employment figures by several companies specializing in economic forecasting. Further, a January 25 USA Today article  stated that, according to its "quarterly survey of 50 economists," "[u]nemployment would have hit 10.8% -- higher than December's 10% rate -- without Obama's $787 billion stimulus program," adding, "The difference would translate into another 1.2 million lost jobs."

              Eliminating wasteful spending. Obama was able to achieve some significant cuts to wasteful spending -- most notably, the elimination of the F-22 fighter jet program after he successfully lobbied the Senate to vote to strip out financing for more jets from a defense funding authorization bill. The Washington Times reported on January 14 that Obama won "60 percent of his proposed cuts" and also managed "to get Congress to ax several programs that had bedeviled President George W. Bush for years."

              Sotomayor nomination. On May 26, 2009, Obama nominated Sonia Sotomayor to the Supreme Court to replace the retiring Justice David Souter. She was confirmed by the Senate on August 6, 2009, and sworn in August 8, making her the first Hispanic justice, and only the third woman, on the court.

              Lilly Ledbetter Fair Pay Act. The first bill President Obama signed into law, on January 29, 2009, was the Lilly Ledbetter Fair Pay Act, which expands the rights of workers to sue employers over wage discrimination claims.

              SCHIP expansion. On February 5, 2009, Obama signed a bill expanding the State Children's Health Insurance Program (SCHIP) to cover 4 million more lower-income children.

              Public lands bill. On March 30, Obama signed an omnibus public lands bill, which The New York Times reported "allows for 2 million more acres to be declared wilderness... [with] more than 1,000 miles designated as scenic rivers, and adds land for national trails."

              Credit card reform. On May 21, 2009, Obama signed into law a bill providing what USA Today called the "most sweeping changes to the credit card industry in 40 years," adding restrictions on interest rate increases and fees and restricting the marketing of credit cards to college students.

              Transparency. The Washington Post reported that moves by the Obama administration to improve government transparency "included a ban on lobbyist gifts; restrictions on the hiring of lobbyists; publication of White House visitor logs and other records; and a move to bar lobbyists from serving on advisory boards." A report by Common Cause, Democracy 21, the League of Women Voters, and U.S. PIRG stated that: "The cumulative effect of the Administration's actions has been to adopt the strongest and most comprehensive lobbying, ethics and transparency rules and policies ever established by an Administration to govern its own activities."

              Tobacco regulation. On June 22, 2009, Obama signed the Family Smoking Prevention and Tobacco Control Act, which, for the first time, gave the U.S. Food & Drug Administration the authority to regulate the manufacturing, marketing, and sale of tobacco.

              National service. On April 21, 2009, Obama signed the Edward M. Kennedy Serve America Act, which expands the scope of AmeriCorps and provides opportunities for young people and senior citizens to join in service programs.

              Stem cell research. On May 9, 2009, Obama signed an executive order easing restrictions on the use of federal money for embryonic stem cell research.

              That "hopey-changey thing"? Takes a Magic Hawaiian to pull it off...

              by BobTrips on Sun May 23, 2010 at 08:45:33 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

            •  sorry (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              neroden

              But I'm having difficulty with some of those accomplishments, e.g., moratiums on off-shore drilling that get ignored by his Sec or Interior and the bit about the US being the leader in climate negotiations (the US has already skipped an inportiant COP meeting in Beijing and disrupted a meeting in EU).

              Many promises, few accomplishments.

              I give Obama credit for proposing a lot of good ideas and at least starting to invest in Green Economy stimulus that will show returns, but frankly environment is not his priority and despite the fact he has good appintments to DoE and EPA, some of his other appointees really suck, and seem to have more support and power that those with a high potential to do good.

              "Life immitates art, but takes license." - ko

              by koNko on Sun May 23, 2010 at 10:55:41 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

            •  Hmm. Let's see: (0+ / 0-)

              Eliminate all the meaningless guff which is just talk, and you get:

                    * Worked with Congress to pass the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act, a $787 billion economic stimulus package that includes nearly $100 billion in green spending to help get the economy back on track and to create millions of clean-energy jobs.

              Credit where credit is due.  Thanks, Congress!

                    * Declared carbon dioxide and other greenhouse gases a threat to public health and welfare, setting the stage for regulating greenhouse gas emissions that contribute to global warming if Congress fails to pass legislation to address the issue.

              Required by lawsuit and court order.  No credit there.

                    * Protected more than 2 million acres of wilderness land and several rivers with the Omnibus Public Land Management Act of 2009..

              Totally irrelevant to this.

                    * Restored critical protections under the Endangered Species Act, which had been removed by a last-minute rule change in the final days of the Bush administration.

              Possibly relevant to this, but the fact that he didn't consider the threat to the polar bear to be sufficient to regulate CO2 means he pulled the teeth back out of the Endangered Species Act.

                    * Ordered the Environmental Protection Agency to reconsider its decision to deny California a waiver under the Clean Air Act, which would have enabled California and 17 other states to impose stricter-than-federal limits on greenhouse gas emissions from motor vehicles.

              Incredibly small potatoes.

                    * Reversed the Bush rule that opened the door to mountaintop removal coal mining and canceled several individual mountaintop mining permits.

              Mountaintop removal continues.

                    * Put offshore drilling and oil shale exploration on hold and restored protections for public lands.

              Flat out false.  They're still issuing offshore drilling permits.

              -5.63, -8.10. Learn about Duverger's Law.

              by neroden on Mon May 24, 2010 at 01:27:10 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

        •  Okay, #4 is horseshit. (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          neroden

          Wow, he nominated someone and she was confirmed!! Such an accomplishment!

          Ooh, and she's a double minority!! Bonus points!

          (Note: I do like Sotomayor. She's proven herself a perfectly good judge for us. But as a bullet point for Obama's accomplishments?!)

          “If I can't dance to it, it's not my revolution.” — Emma Goldman

          by Jyrinx on Sun May 23, 2010 at 08:36:04 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Horseshit to you... (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            balancedscales, flhiii88

            I guess getting another woman on the bench and breaking the white/token black barrier isn't important in your world, eh?

            That "hopey-changey thing"? Takes a Magic Hawaiian to pull it off...

            by BobTrips on Sun May 23, 2010 at 08:38:44 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Um, Bush tried to get a woman on, too. (0+ / 0-)

              I'm not saying it's insignificant. But as one of his crowning achievements? That's a bit much.

              “If I can't dance to it, it's not my revolution.” — Emma Goldman

              by Jyrinx on Sun May 23, 2010 at 08:42:56 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  "Bush tried to get a woman on, too." (0+ / 0-)

                Wasn't the topic accomplishments?

                That "hopey-changey thing"? Takes a Magic Hawaiian to pull it off...

                by BobTrips on Sun May 23, 2010 at 08:50:08 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  Exactly. And according to your logic, (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  neroden

                  evidently she would've been an “accomplishment” too if she'd been confirmed.

                  “If I can't dance to it, it's not my revolution.” — Emma Goldman

                  by Jyrinx on Sun May 23, 2010 at 08:52:45 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  Look, I have no idea why you show up on ... (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    flhiii88

                    this site.

                    This site is about getting Democrats elected and furthering the Democratic/liberal/progressive agenda.

                    If you care nothing about moving that agenda forward then why bother wasting your time here?

                    That "hopey-changey thing"? Takes a Magic Hawaiian to pull it off...

                    by BobTrips on Sun May 23, 2010 at 08:56:49 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  Hah! I'm supposed to be sorry for caring too much (0+ / 0-)

                      about results to contribute toward “furthering the Democratic/liberal agenda”?!

                      Last I checked, that agenda included more than one item on which Obama's been pushing the wrong way.

                      “If I can't dance to it, it's not my revolution.” — Emma Goldman

                      by Jyrinx on Sun May 23, 2010 at 09:02:51 PM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  Oh, so you're one of those "one item agenda" (1+ / 0-)
                        Recommended by:
                        flhiii88

                        types like the anti-choice people?

                        That "hopey-changey thing"? Takes a Magic Hawaiian to pull it off...

                        by BobTrips on Sun May 23, 2010 at 09:05:01 PM PDT

                        [ Parent ]

                        •  I have a several-item agenda (0+ / 0-)

                          that Obama's been flunking.

                          Oh, and if I care too much about the senseless slaughter, torture, and imprisonment of innocents to clap hard enough for you, well, too the fuck bad.

                          “If I can't dance to it, it's not my revolution.” — Emma Goldman

                          by Jyrinx on Sun May 23, 2010 at 09:13:56 PM PDT

                          [ Parent ]

                          •  Oh fuck. (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            flhiii88

                            Obama explicitly made torture ILLEGAL.  

                            Now apparently you think we should just get up and haul butt out of Iraq and Afghanisthan and let the governments that the people elected there be overrun by the Taliban and al-Queda rather than give them an opportunity to prepare to defend themselves.

                            OK, that's your opinion.  I don't respect it.

                            And you apparently think we should take people in Gitmo who would most likely be tortured/killed if we were to return them to their home countries and just put them on a plane back home.

                            Again, no respect from me.

                            That "hopey-changey thing"? Takes a Magic Hawaiian to pull it off...

                            by BobTrips on Sun May 23, 2010 at 09:29:45 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Torture was already illegal. (0+ / 0-)

                            You know what Obama's responsiblity is? To enforce the law. That's why it's the Executive Branch. So whatever his executive order said, his administration's actions have condoned torture in the past and enabled it in the future.

                            “If I can't dance to it, it's not my revolution.” — Emma Goldman

                            by Jyrinx on Sun May 23, 2010 at 10:14:13 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  You missed the Bush era? (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            flhiii88

                            Back when Bush declared it legal.  When he and Yoo did that little tap dance around the law.

                            Obama made it very clear to everyone in the US government that torture was illegal and would no longer be permitted.

                            Now, please document that charge that President Obama's "actions have condoned torture in the past and enabled it in the future".

                            I want something that stands a basic sniff test and not some wacko, out of context, conspiracy theory crap.

                            That "hopey-changey thing"? Takes a Magic Hawaiian to pull it off...

                            by BobTrips on Sun May 23, 2010 at 10:24:15 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  The President cannot declare things legal. (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            neroden

                            By not prosecuting, the Obama administration is making it clear that there will be no consequences for the next administration that does decide torture is legal again.

                            “If I can't dance to it, it's not my revolution.” — Emma Goldman

                            by Jyrinx on Mon May 24, 2010 at 12:07:16 AM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  You're right... (0+ / 0-)

                            About presidents not being able to pick and choose the laws they wish to follow.

                            I don't know if the current administration will prosecute the former one or not.  But I do agree with the present administration that it was more important to keep the country from going into a depression and to stop the unnecessary deaths of 40,000 Americans first.

                            Now there's the oil spill which people like you insist that Obama personally plug....

                            That "hopey-changey thing"? Takes a Magic Hawaiian to pull it off...

                            by BobTrips on Mon May 24, 2010 at 07:36:32 AM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  And actually, I think that the people at Gitmo (0+ / 0-)

                            should be given trials like any other prisoners.

                            And the idea that we're keeping them locked up for their own sake is positively ludicrous.

                            “If I can't dance to it, it's not my revolution.” — Emma Goldman

                            by Jyrinx on Sun May 23, 2010 at 10:15:21 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Fine. (0+ / 0-)

                            Everyone there has received a fair hearing to see if they should be held for trial.  Obama saw to that when he came into office.

                            Now, how about the Weegers?  They were found to be illegal holds performed by the Bush administration.  They are free to go back to China.  Where they will most likely be persecuted by the Chinese government.

                            You want to send them back?  They don't want to go back to China where they fear for their lives.  Congress has blocked letting them live in the US.  No other country has been willing to accept them.

                            You want to do what, stick them on a raft with a bottle of water, shove them off the beach, and wish them luck?

                            That "hopey-changey thing"? Takes a Magic Hawaiian to pull it off...

                            by BobTrips on Sun May 23, 2010 at 10:30:24 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  What planet are you on?! (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            neroden

                            Hearings for Gitmo detainees have barely started, and the Pentagon is taking steps to keep good reporters out.

                            “If I can't dance to it, it's not my revolution.” — Emma Goldman

                            by Jyrinx on Mon May 24, 2010 at 12:05:31 AM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  You are confusing... (0+ / 0-)

                            The case-by-case reviews which followed Obama's January 22, 2009 order and the military tribunals for those who were held for trial during those reviews.

                            It's just like being accused in civilian courts in the US.  You get a hearing before a judge to see if there is ample evidence to try you.  It might take several months before the trial actually gets underway.  It took a while this time because a process had to be created.

                            The "innocent" people being held at Gitmo fall into two categories.  

                            First, the ones for whom the reviews found no evidence to hold them, but no country has yet stepped up to accept them.

                            Here, you can read up on the detainees who have been found proper for release and where they have gone.

                            Second, the ones for whom the review found ample evidence to hold for trial.  Some may well be found innocent if the evidence is not adequate to convict. But that is true for everyone who gets caught up in the US justice system.

                            That "hopey-changey thing"? Takes a Magic Hawaiian to pull it off...

                            by BobTrips on Mon May 24, 2010 at 07:49:49 AM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  If there's no evidence that someone is guilty, (0+ / 0-)

                            we have to release them. Period. Just put them right the fuck back where we picked them up. That's how it works.

                            “If I can't dance to it, it's not my revolution.” — Emma Goldman

                            by Jyrinx on Mon May 24, 2010 at 10:48:10 AM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  OK... (0+ / 0-)

                            We send them to where they will almost certainly be tortured and/or killed.

                            We'll jam them on the plane in restraints because they will be fighting for their lives.

                            Great idea!  

                            You can now sew a "Compassionate Human" merit badge on your sash.

                            (I know I said I was done with this thread, but I'm looking for excuses to not go back to work....)

                            That "hopey-changey thing"? Takes a Magic Hawaiian to pull it off...

                            by BobTrips on Mon May 24, 2010 at 10:59:58 AM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  And finally... (0+ / 0-)

                            It's a new day.

                            I answered your left-over-from-last-night posts.  

                            I'm done playing whack-a-mole with you.  

                            You, IMHO, need to do more to educate yourself on the issues which upset you so.  I think you have your bloomers in a twist over stuff you just don't understand.

                            I don't think the way you are approaching issues is fair to the President nor to the Democratic/liberal/progressive cause.  By lashing out against because you're all loaded up with incorrect and incomplete information you do the work of the right wing.

                            And that's not a good thing....

                            That "hopey-changey thing"? Takes a Magic Hawaiian to pull it off...

                            by BobTrips on Mon May 24, 2010 at 07:54:54 AM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                  •  You must be so much fun (0+ / 0-)

                    at parties.

                    After reading a few of your posts, I feel any positive energy I've got drain right out of me.

                    Isn't there some way you could use that power on Republicans instead of on us?

                    •  I did. And people like me (1+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      neroden

                      are what put us in power, people who were passionate and gave Obama piles of money and volunteer time. But now that we're there, hating the GOP just isn't good enough anymore.

                      “If I can't dance to it, it's not my revolution.” — Emma Goldman

                      by Jyrinx on Sun May 23, 2010 at 09:18:40 PM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

        •  Oh, and #5 was an exercise (0+ / 0-)

          in disguising an industry-friendly bill as populist.

          “If I can't dance to it, it's not my revolution.” — Emma Goldman

          by Jyrinx on Sun May 23, 2010 at 08:36:58 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

    •  And actually, it IS an important function (6+ / 0-)

      of the presidency to provide leadership to the American people, to go on the TV machine and make stirring speeches to keep our spirits up. I've heard Obama's pretty decent at oration.

      “If I can't dance to it, it's not my revolution.” — Emma Goldman

      by Jyrinx on Sun May 23, 2010 at 08:17:57 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Every Saturday... (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        balancedscales, Diogenes2008

        Ever listen to him on the radio?

        And lots of times during the week he's on TV.  He just spoke at West Point.

        Of course, some of the TV stations, make that most of the TV stations, don't carry his speeches.  Except bits and pieces.  And FOX will show a bit if they find something they can distort.

        You can find that stuff on the web.  You know, the people's TV....

        That "hopey-changey thing"? Takes a Magic Hawaiian to pull it off...

        by BobTrips on Sun May 23, 2010 at 08:37:38 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Um, I was thinking he might pencil something in (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          tmo, neroden

          for wunna them high-profile press conferences that lots of people actually watch.

          If the success of your leadership is predicated on everyone already giving a shit, you ain't gonna be successful.

          “If I can't dance to it, it's not my revolution.” — Emma Goldman

          by Jyrinx on Sun May 23, 2010 at 08:41:02 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Wheeeeeeeeeeee!!!!!! (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Diogenes2008

            Now we're playing moving goalposts.

            That "hopey-changey thing"? Takes a Magic Hawaiian to pull it off...

            by BobTrips on Sun May 23, 2010 at 08:48:20 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Yours aren't exactly stationary. (0+ / 0-)

              I mean, taking action now apparently means making it the subject of his latest podcast.

              “If I can't dance to it, it's not my revolution.” — Emma Goldman

              by Jyrinx on Sun May 23, 2010 at 08:50:30 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  You know... (0+ / 0-)

                He can only go on TV if the stations choose to carry his speech.

                Did they carry his speech yesterday when he spoke at West Point?  I don't know.  Don't have a TV....

                That "hopey-changey thing"? Takes a Magic Hawaiian to pull it off...

                by BobTrips on Sun May 23, 2010 at 09:01:55 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  Um, if he wanted to do (0+ / 0-)

                  a prime-time conference on a national emergency, they damn well would cover it.

                  “If I can't dance to it, it's not my revolution.” — Emma Goldman

                  by Jyrinx on Sun May 23, 2010 at 09:04:22 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  What national emergency? (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    VClib

                    Did the Martians invade?

                    That "hopey-changey thing"? Takes a Magic Hawaiian to pull it off...

                    by BobTrips on Sun May 23, 2010 at 09:06:01 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  No, but an entire ecosystem is being destroyed (2+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      neroden, limpidglass

                      just when the economy was looking to be starting to recover. This absolutely is a national issue.

                      “If I can't dance to it, it's not my revolution.” — Emma Goldman

                      by Jyrinx on Sun May 23, 2010 at 09:15:36 PM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  Thank you. (1+ / 0-)
                        Recommended by:
                        VClib

                        A rational response.

                        Yes, there is no national emergency.

                        Yes, there is one big fucking mess in the Gulf of Mexico that may well spread to Cuba and up the East Coast.

                        It is not a national issue.  It is a regional issue.  The oil spill will not reach Seattle, Phoenix and Kalamazoo.

                        If you have paid attention then you know that the Coast Guard had a chopper on the scene about an hour after the explosion and there was an admiral on scene soon after.

                        You'd know that federal law binds the administration's hands.  Existing law makes it the responsibility of the oil company and takes control away from the administration.  To take control Obama would have to break the law.

                        You'd know that every resource that the federal government possesses has been made available to BP to help them stop the flow.

                        Now, it seems to be very important to you for Obama to go on TV and make a speech.  

                        Why?  I have no idea.  

                        Speeches do not clog wells.

                        But, whatever.....

                        That "hopey-changey thing"? Takes a Magic Hawaiian to pull it off...

                        by BobTrips on Sun May 23, 2010 at 09:23:58 PM PDT

                        [ Parent ]

                        •  That's absolute nonsense (1+ / 0-)
                          Recommended by:
                          neroden

                          about the administration's hands being tied. The fact is that BP has been derelict in that responsibility, and ergo the feds have every right to shove them aside.

                          No court would ever uphold BP's right to clean up the mess without the government's help. That's just bull.

                          “If I can't dance to it, it's not my revolution.” — Emma Goldman

                          by Jyrinx on Sun May 23, 2010 at 10:07:10 PM PDT

                          [ Parent ]

                •  It was on CSPAN (0+ / 0-)

                  "let's talk about that"

                  by VClib on Mon May 24, 2010 at 12:56:32 AM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

        •  he has not held a press conference (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          tmo, jimreyn, VClib

          since last July. Not exactly transparent, eh?

          "In America, the law is king." --Thomas Paine

          by limpidglass on Sun May 23, 2010 at 08:44:23 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

  •  Oh god! (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    subtropolis, bear83, Diogenes2008

    Here we go agian.

  •  As an environmentalist, (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    barath, Diogenes2008

    I expect things like this to happen. Plenty of people have been warning about the risks of drilling for decades. There are plenty of similarly disastrous things been done to the environment, on a slower scale. I don't like it, but I've gotten used to the destruction of the Amazon rainforest, the receeding glaciers, the mass extinctions and so on.

    I think some people are expecting a Hollywood solution to this, where an action hero jumps into a jet fighter and gets Godzilla to fix it, or some guys land a spaceship on an asteroid and blow it up with a nuke.

    nothing lasts, nothing is finished, and nothing is perfect

    by erratic on Sun May 23, 2010 at 08:18:54 PM PDT

  •  I worry about all the other active rigs out there (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Timaeus, conchita, jimreyn, balancedscales

    If cats could blog, they wouldn't.

    by crystal eyes on Sun May 23, 2010 at 08:19:43 PM PDT

  •  maybe you should read around (4+ / 0-)

    it's naive to think the usual assortment of ill informed talking points-parroting  talking heads would have any sense of the extent of the environmental damage being done.

    and it should be obvious that this is not about waiting for BP to fix it. read around. at least half of those talking heads want to give you the impression the white house has no clue what to do.

    Progressives will lose all major messaging battles until they picket the limbaugh/hannity megastations and boycott those stations' local sponsors.

    by certainot on Sun May 23, 2010 at 08:21:16 PM PDT

    •  Agreed. (5+ / 0-)

      24,000 people are currently working on the cleanup and capping the well. I think people are mistaking urgency for panic. We didn't elect a panic administration. I don't get the sense they're going to rush around and make a show of doing things that lead to nothing.

      There was an awful lot of that during Katrina - let's rush and get some water, only to have it sit at some staging location for 2 days because the next piece of the chain either wasn't put in place or couldn't be in place, but boy did it look like there was urgency, even though nothing was really getting accomplished.

      I also get the sense that people here are frustrated with the lack of photo-ops. I understand the feds have been flying in critical equipment from around the world, but because there's no video of it and it's not on Meet the Press or the Situation Room, nobody seems to think its happening.

      Honestly the state of TV news reporting is just atrocious now. The networks did a good job during Katrina, but I learned more watching 60 minutes last week than I did all other TV combined. No wonder nobody thinks anything is happening.

      Leave it to Republicans to set the house on fire and then rant that the fire department is socialist.

      by johnsonwax on Sun May 23, 2010 at 08:44:25 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  And they talk about who will pay for the cleanup (10+ / 0-)

    and the cost and the whole bullshit blather. They completely ignore one major fact:

    This can't be cleaned up.

    It's like they live on a different planet or aren't watching the same Gulf of Mexico we are or something.

    Beyond surreal.

    My child and I had one one real joy in our lives - the ocean and the whales.

    We are planning a trip in late June, something that always picks us up and we look forward to it all year. It is so bittersweet now.

    The whales we see in New England will return to warm southern waters in the fall to have their calves and they will likely all be dead next year.

    I don't want to go. I will cry the whole time we are there. My son is heartbroken.

    Not to throw shoes is the crime. Not to be outraged is the crime.

    by the girl on Sun May 23, 2010 at 08:21:28 PM PDT

  •  Chris Matthews?! (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    erratic, xsonogall

    He is showing so much emotion because he is an idiot who doesn't do his homework. He does barely any preparation for new stories on his show and instead relies on books he's read and his experiences working for the Carter administration.

    There was a really good diary about him on the Rec List a few days ago concerning the oil gusher. You know what he asked an expert ONE FRICKING MONTH after it started?! "Gee, why can't we send divers down there." Read blogs or something, Tweety, you nitwit!

    No one knows how to stop the leak. No one knows when or where the currently leaked oil will reach land. ARead a great article today where scientists said that, due to the unique nature of this leak--so damn deep--we'll probably have oil washing up on our shores are at least a decade. So, we're screwed. There are no easy or obvious solutions. And even if we had some short-term cleanup solutions, the well keeps gushing and gushing...
     

    "You don't go into gay bars to discuss politics with Chris Matthew's."

    by Anak on Sun May 23, 2010 at 08:23:08 PM PDT

  •  What are you talking about? Everybody (4+ / 0-)

    is freaking out about this, online and in the real world. What are we supposed to do, dance around naked or something?

    I'm in the I-fucking-love-this-guy wing of the Democratic Party!

    by doc2 on Sun May 23, 2010 at 08:25:40 PM PDT

  •  The people have been disempowered (8+ / 0-)

    What purpose is there to mobilizing, when our mobilization gets dismissed as "naive", "purism", "focus group", "extremists", "loony leftists", "retards"--and that's by our supposed political allies, the dominant corporate centrist wing of the Democratic Party.  The media take their cues from the corporate suites and their representative voices in the parties.  We are broken as a citizenry, and those who are in charge like it that way and have organized things to make sure it remains that way.  So what are we to do about anything else, when we can't even help ourselves out of our helplessness?

    We who have been nothing shall be all. This is the final struggle. ~E. Pottier

    by ActivistGuy on Sun May 23, 2010 at 08:34:15 PM PDT

  •  where is the perspective? (4+ / 0-)

    Maybe the reason you're not seeing as many people with their hair on fire as you'd expect is that they're either too busy doing something about this or understand that running around with lots of hand-waving does nothing to help those who are too busy doing something about it.

    There's plenty of evidence that a whole lot of of very capable people are well aware of the severity of the situation.

  •  not paying attention.. (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Diogenes2008

    So.. you claim that there is no sense of urgency?

    From the LA times:

    Hundreds of engineers from universities, rival oil companies and the federal government immediately went back to work, in shifts lasting 13 hours or more.

    "Anyone who we think could make a difference, we brought in," said Kent Wells, BP's senior vice president for exploration and production.

    Then came the "dream team" that President Obama had ordered his Nobel-winning energy secretary, Steven Chu, to assemble: out-of-the-box thinkers including a nuclear physicist, a pioneer on Mars drilling techniques, an MIT professor whose research interests include "going faster on my snowboard," an expert on the hydrogen bomb, and a controversial astrophysicist who was later booted over a past essay defending homophobia.

    Those involved say they are crafting and deploying in a matter of days what under normal circumstances would take a year or more.

    Hundreds of top scientists and engineers working round the clock to assist BP in solving this problem isn't a show of urgency?

    As far as I can tell Obama is handling this wonderfully and with quiet competence. Rather than focusing on condemning people, and drawing conclusions before all the information is available he has quietly put the best people he can on the most important aspect of this, bringing the leak to a stop! It is taking a long time largely because it is an extremely difficult problem that is unlike others that have been solved previously.

    •  Obama's a Politician Not a Physicist. (5+ / 0-)

      wonderfully and with quiet competence.

      Breaking: "quiet" is the exact opposite of "competence" in politics.

      We are called to speak for the weak, for the voiceless, for victims of our nation and for those it calls enemy.... --ML King "Beyond Vietnam"

      by Gooserock on Sun May 23, 2010 at 08:52:30 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  nonsense! (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        potato

        As an American citizen I want the leak stopped! I'm happy that our President is using the power of his office to make that happen as rapidly as possible. After we can talk about whose is at fault, what penalties and civil liabilities they should have to accept, and how we should proceed in terms of oil production.

        In the past we could trust that our leaders would step up and do what needs to be done. Katrina was so shocking as it showed us that that was often no longer the case. I am happy to see Obama restore a basic sense of competence to governance.

        Breaking: "quiet" is the exact opposite of "competence" in politics.

    •  It's about perception..! Dems just dont seem to (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      neroden, BigAlinWashSt

      get it..I dont feel the urgency either..Whatever the president is doing let's put it out ther in CAPITAL LETTERS..We are getting fancy state dinner menus and what gowns Michelle is wearing..Perception

      "Course I'm respectable. I'm old. Politicians, ugly buildings, and whores all get respectable if they last long enough." Noah Cross - Chinatown

      by LakePipes on Sun May 23, 2010 at 08:57:17 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Information becoming available would be a good (0+ / 0-)

      start.  Reading EPA's statements of "confidential" ingredients in Corexit infuriated me.

      We can do better than that.

    •  Dream Team. That makes me wonder why plans (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      scotths

      weren't already in place for such a problem.  Something as serious as deep sea drilling and the potential catastrophic consequences, and they didn't plan for every possible scenario and how to address it?  That would be pure incompetence.  And if they did plan for it, what happened to the plans.  

      "Peace cannot be achieved by force. It can only be achieved by understanding" Albert Einstein

      by BigAlinWashSt on Sun May 23, 2010 at 09:01:26 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  maybe.. (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        BigAlinWashSt

        Dream Team. That makes me wonder why plans
        weren't already in place for such a problem.  Something as serious as deep sea drilling and the potential catastrophic consequences, and they didn't plan for every possible scenario and how to address it?  That would be pure incompetence.  And if they did plan for it, what happened to the plans.  

        Perhaps they should have made such plans. But 2 things:

        1. If such plans should have been made I hardly think it is the fault of Obama and his administration. If it takes a "dream team" over a month of working around the clock (at least!) to solve the problem, I doubt the plans for this and numerous other contingencies could have been drawn up in a little over a year.
        1. The question of whether this event was likely enough to have required the preparation of a plan to stop the spill in advance is a question that should be asked AFTER the spill is stopped. Right now all efforts should be on stopping the spill, not assessing blame or planning for the future.
        •  Thanks for your response. My point was, (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          neroden, scotths, Bluefin

          anything as serious as this should have all i's dotted and T's crossed.  I served on a sub during the Vietnam war and know that all scenarios for submarine problems were envisioned and actions for remedies planned.  It's just a necessary part of the operation.  It has to be done.  As to questioning it now, for some maybe, but I'm just some dude in a room.  It doesn't matter.  

          "Peace cannot be achieved by force. It can only be achieved by understanding" Albert Einstein

          by BigAlinWashSt on Sun May 23, 2010 at 09:23:56 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  ah..sorry.. perhaps (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            BigAlinWashSt

            I was too quick to jump on your comment...

            anything as serious as this should have all i's dotted and T's crossed.  I served on a sub during the Vietnam war and know that all scenarios for submarine problems were envisioned and actions for remedies planned.  It's just a necessary part of the operation.  It has to be done.  As to questioning it now, for some maybe, but I'm just some dude in a room.  It doesn't matter.  

            It seems so many people's attitude is something to the effect of "I want answers and I want them now!" and seem upset that they aren't immediately forthcoming. I see that wasn't what you meant...

            I wonder if this is a scenario they couldn't have really planned for, sort of like the Apollo 13 accident...An unlikely confluence of events led to a situation outside of the numerous contingencies that had been planned for. It took a team of people to piece together what they had and bring the crew home...

            Solving this problem will hopefully lead to new techniques that could be used more quickly if something like this happens again...

            •  No problems, That's the intenet.) (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              scotths

              You have a point about the Apollo 13 accident.  Maybe it's not realistic to foresee everything.  I'm aghast at what's happening and really just want someone to report major progress.  But it appears we're not going to avoid major problems from this.  But preventing it in the future, no matter how, is a must.    

              "Peace cannot be achieved by force. It can only be achieved by understanding" Albert Einstein

              by BigAlinWashSt on Sun May 23, 2010 at 09:57:05 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  The worst news is Salazar authorizing more (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                BigAlinWashSt

                We now know for a fact that wells like this are incredibly environmentally dangerous.

                Yet Salazar, Obama's appointee, is rubberstamping more well permits without environmental impact statements.

                This is DAMNING.

                -5.63, -8.10. Learn about Duverger's Law.

                by neroden on Mon May 24, 2010 at 01:34:26 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

  •  Many of these "environmentalists"... (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    neroden

    especially the ones allowed on TV or otherwise allowed into public view, have been co-opted by or are creations of precisedly these various corporations.

    Even environmentalists, who you would think would be the fiercest advocates for stopping the spill, have been coming on these talk shows the past couple of weeks, and they just talk about how America needs to reduce its dependence on oil, or we need more regulation of the oil industry.

    As for

    One thing that has astounded me from watching the talking head shows

    what one must understand about "talking head shows" is that their purpose is to confuse, frustrate, sedate, and ultimately somnambulate the otherwise interested public.

  •  Matthews? You mean Carville. Matthews just (0+ / 0-)

    jumped on the bandwagon.  

  •   1 MILE DOWN (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    balancedscales, VClib

    What do you want Obama to do?Swim 1 mile down with a roll of duct tape to patch the pipe?From what I've read the US government does not own a submarine that will work at these depths,There is no quick fix,to stop this leak they are going to have to drill another pipe and intersect the orginal pipe below the damage.This aint easy or fast when your working at these depths.Running around like a chicken with its head cut off won't do any good.The damage is done.

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