Skip to main content

On April 2, 2010, President Obama said that oil rigs generally don't cause oil spills.  On Rachel Maddow tonight she talked about all of the oil spills in the USA the last ten years.  There were a bunch of huge oil spills, especially during Katrina, but a lot more than that.  When he said this I know that he was trying to get a climate change bill approved by 'giving away the store' negotiations, similar to the give-aways he started with when he started 'negotiations' with the health care reform.  Three weeks later, on 4/20/10 the Deepwater Horizon exploded and exposed this statement as truly, and horribly, false.  http://news.firedoglake.com/...

I want to know what kind of review he did before he made this huge policy change, and this huge idiotic statement.  He had to know that any huge policy change he should be very careful, especially these idiotic, game-changer statements.  What kind of review did he do before he said this.  He must have known that any federal regulator had been compromised during the Bush presidency.  

Did he even talk to anybody at MMS before he said this stupid statement.  I WANT TO KNOW what his thinking was.  Because if he didn't do any investigation before this huge policy change then he was just shooting from the hip.  This is what Bush did.  Shoot from the hip?  You have got to be kidding.  

I did think that Obama was careful about everything he did.  But after this I'm sure he isn't careful.  It, comes down to some simple thing, either he did a review of offshore oil drilling and his review was bad, or he didn't care and just said whatever seemed good to say to make political points.

This is know is poker as a tell.  He just does whatevery he needs to do to trim his sails and get into the wind.  This is a really bad thing.  I had thought that he was like this before I gave him money and doorknocked/phonebanked for him, and now I  have proof.  

The truth hurt's, don't it.

UPDATE:  according to McClatchy, here's what went wrong with the so-called review
I. Funneled all info through the so-called Czar Carol Browner; he thought that was all the info he needed.

II. He failed to drill into the bureaucracy.  There was a 2000 MMS report on the high-risk nature of offshore drilling.

III.  He never talked to the Coast Guard about its 2002 spill in the Gulf, esp. Commandant Thad Allen.

IV.  He didn't reach out to outside experts such as the National Academy of Engineering.

He was about as sloppy on his review as my current diary, which is very sloppy.

Originally posted to Churchill on Mon Jun 14, 2010 at 09:35 PM PDT.

Poll

Obama's Offshore Oil Drilling was

6%4 votes
71%45 votes
22%14 votes

| 63 votes | Vote | Results

EMAIL TO A FRIEND X
Your Email has been sent.
You must add at least one tag to this diary before publishing it.

Add keywords that describe this diary. Separate multiple keywords with commas.
Tagging tips - Search For Tags - Browse For Tags

?

More Tagging tips:

A tag is a way to search for this diary. If someone is searching for "Barack Obama," is this a diary they'd be trying to find?

Use a person's full name, without any title. Senator Obama may become President Obama, and Michelle Obama might run for office.

If your diary covers an election or elected official, use election tags, which are generally the state abbreviation followed by the office. CA-01 is the first district House seat. CA-Sen covers both senate races. NY-GOV covers the New York governor's race.

Tags do not compound: that is, "education reform" is a completely different tag from "education". A tag like "reform" alone is probably not meaningful.

Consider if one or more of these tags fits your diary: Civil Rights, Community, Congress, Culture, Economy, Education, Elections, Energy, Environment, Health Care, International, Labor, Law, Media, Meta, National Security, Science, Transportation, or White House. If your diary is specific to a state, consider adding the state (California, Texas, etc). Keep in mind, though, that there are many wonderful and important diaries that don't fit in any of these tags. Don't worry if yours doesn't.

You can add a private note to this diary when hotlisting it:
Are you sure you want to remove this diary from your hotlist?
Are you sure you want to remove your recommendation? You can only recommend a diary once, so you will not be able to re-recommend it afterwards.
Rescue this diary, and add a note:
Are you sure you want to remove this diary from Rescue?
Choose where to republish this diary. The diary will be added to the queue for that group. Publish it from the queue to make it appear.

You must be a member of a group to use this feature.

Add a quick update to your diary without changing the diary itself:
Are you sure you want to remove this diary?
(The diary will be removed from the site and returned to your drafts for further editing.)
(The diary will be removed.)
Are you sure you want to save these changes to the published diary?

Comment Preferences

  •  Tip Jar (5+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    ej25, koNko, mcartri, good grief, virtual0

    Obama dined with David Brooks, Bill Kristol, Charles Krauthammer & George Will; but not with Kos

    by Churchill on Mon Jun 14, 2010 at 09:35:42 PM PDT

  •  How about a link to what he said? (11+ / 0-)

    It's not that I don't trust a totally random paraphrase from someone that obviously has an axe to grind, but it's common courtesy.

    •  I don't have an ax to grind (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      mcartri

      but here it is

      Obama dined with David Brooks, Bill Kristol, Charles Krauthammer & George Will; but not with Kos

      by Churchill on Mon Jun 14, 2010 at 09:39:03 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  You don't seem to understand (7+ / 0-)

        all internet traditions.

        •  sorry, thx, You still believe Obama I see (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          ej25, mcartri, good grief

          and your UID is from about 7 years ago,  I'm July 05 UID.  Anyway,  I had to wise up with this health care reform public option deal away before the negotiations began.  There is a lot of reasons that he didn't fight for it, but he didn't do it at all.  That's the bottom line.  He really doesn't care about progressive issues.

          Obama dined with David Brooks, Bill Kristol, Charles Krauthammer & George Will; but not with Kos

          by Churchill on Mon Jun 14, 2010 at 09:45:33 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Obama Owned by Corporate America (6+ / 0-)

            So far we see an administration that consistently supports Big Pharma, health ins. companies, big banks, big oil, military-industrial profits, war crimes cover-ups, etc. The progressive rhetoric of the campaign was just that...flowery words. The actions are those of a right of center politician, directed by Corporate America for their own greed. None of it is about us. We are merely progressive pawns, praising the crumbs that fall from the table of the rich & powerful. Obama, the entire GOP & much of the Democratic Party sit at the table. We scurry about the chair legs.

          •  There is something so pathetic about (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            ban nock

            People who trot out UID to gain points.

            (PS. Understand internet traditions is an internet meme not a dkos one.)

            Obama: "Cynicism is a sorry kind of wisdom."

            by BrighidG on Tue Jun 15, 2010 at 12:37:54 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

      •  Thanks. So he didn't say that "oil rigs (8+ / 0-)

        don't cause spills."  So, maybe you could edit your title so it isn't a wild lie.

        •  "Oil Rigs today generally don't cause spills" (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          mightymouse, koNko, svboston

          what about about the oil rigs statement do you think is wrong?

          Obama dined with David Brooks, Bill Kristol, Charles Krauthammer & George Will; but not with Kos

          by Churchill on Mon Jun 14, 2010 at 09:48:16 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Oil rigs don't cause oil spills… (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Patricia Bruner, BrighidG

            …but the people who own, manage, operate, and maintain them do.

            Teh stoopidTM, it hurts. Buy smart, union-printed, USA-made, signs, stickers, swag for everyone: DemSign.com

            by DemSign on Mon Jun 14, 2010 at 10:14:31 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  That's rediculous (0+ / 0-)
              Are you suggesting machines never fail, and that what can go wrong never goes wrong?

              The only way your statement can be justified is to say that people make and use oil rigs, and if they didn't they would never fail because they wouldn't exist.

              Guns sometimes accidentally disharge and kill/injur people too.

              "Life immitates art, but takes license." - ko

              by koNko on Mon Jun 14, 2010 at 10:33:42 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  There are two difficult concepts here (0+ / 0-)

                …that are flying way, way over your head.

                The first concept is existential, an oil rig cannot cause an oil spill because it is an inanimate object and therefore it cannot cause anything. Obviously the oil rig is at the root of the problem, but saying the oil rig "caused" the spill is like blaming the parking garage for dumping a 500 lb chunk of concrete on your car.

                The second concept is snark, because obviously I was making a play on the "guns don't kill people" quote that you yourself paraphrased. Of course I was being ridiculous.

                Teh stoopidTM, it hurts. Buy smart, union-printed, USA-made, signs, stickers, swag for everyone: DemSign.com

                by DemSign on Mon Jun 14, 2010 at 11:10:22 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

            •  Guns don't kill people (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Churchill

              people do. Since the Democratic is appropriating the Republican Party...

              Don't let the awful be the enemy of the horrifically bad.

              by virtual0 on Mon Jun 14, 2010 at 10:50:59 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  Democratic party trying to become the GOP party (0+ / 0-)

                sadly

                Obama dined with David Brooks, Bill Kristol, Charles Krauthammer & George Will; but not with Kos

                by Churchill on Mon Jun 14, 2010 at 10:58:45 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  How many times… (4+ / 0-)

                  …have you actually voted? Was November 2008 the first ballot you cast? Do you now feel robbed because Obama is human and not the dream you put on a pedestal who was going to undo 40 years of conservative Presidencies with a stroke of a pen?

                  I knew how to fix everything when I was 18 too. And I was always correct too.

                  Teh stoopidTM, it hurts. Buy smart, union-printed, USA-made, signs, stickers, swag for everyone: DemSign.com

                  by DemSign on Mon Jun 14, 2010 at 11:19:19 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  dozens of times (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    ej25

                    voted in 1980 and every pres election since then.  Now is a time of huge challenge, and it's more important to be careful now, than just guess about policy issues.  Is Obama Guessing now?

                    Obama's Potemkin Village keeps falling away.

                    by Churchill on Mon Jun 14, 2010 at 11:21:20 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  You only vote in the Presidentials! (2+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      Churchill, Socratic Method

                      That explains it. There are these things called local, state, Congressional, and Senatorial elections, that occur between those Presidentials, where we elect people to other offices at other levels and branches of government. And those people are the ones who temper the agendas of even the most ambitious of Presidents (and could potentially become a future President). I strongly recommend that you focus your energy on the smaller races and don't get so monomaniacal about the POTUS.

                      Teh stoopidTM, it hurts. Buy smart, union-printed, USA-made, signs, stickers, swag for everyone: DemSign.com

                      by DemSign on Mon Jun 14, 2010 at 11:42:14 PM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  I vote in local and state elections also (0+ / 0-)

                        Obama's Potemkin Village keeps falling away.

                        by Churchill on Mon Jun 14, 2010 at 11:49:29 PM PDT

                        [ Parent ]

                      •  "monomaniacal" is a personal attack. (0+ / 0-)

                        So is accusing someone first of not voting and then of voting only in Presidential elections.  (That is, implying that one's age or voting record or race or gender  has anything to do with the validity of what one says.)  Moreover, you were wrong about whether Churchill had voted, yet you kept on going down that same path with no basis or factual reinforcement, as though* you only had one thing on your mind...

                        *note: I am talking about the action, not the person.

        •  He said oil refineries cause oil spills, (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          ej25, koNko

          but that's really not accurate, is it.  And if he said it in the context of offshore drilling, then how could oil refineries cause oil spils in the ocean?

          Obama dined with David Brooks, Bill Kristol, Charles Krauthammer & George Will; but not with Kos

          by Churchill on Mon Jun 14, 2010 at 09:50:02 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  misrepresentation (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Churchill

            here is the full quote (and link) you refuse to put up

            I don’t agree with the notion that we shouldn’t do anything.  It turns out, by the way, that oil rigs today generally don’t cause spills.  They are technologically very advanced.  Even during Katrina, the spills didn’t come from the oil rigs, they came from the refineries onshore.

            Immediately after which ...

            But the notion that we could drill our way out of the problem -- you’ll start hearing about this because you know what happens during the summer.  As soon as gas prices start going up -- every summer it’s the same thing, right?  And then politicians start standing up and -- "we’re going to do something about it" -- and these days some of my colleagues on the Republican side, what they’ll say is, you got to drill even more.

            Just remember the statistics when you start hearing this.  We account for 2 percent of the world’s oil reserves but we use 20 percent of the world’s oil.  We use 20 percent; we only got 2 percent.  We can’t drill our way out of the problem.

            I didn't agree with the March 31 announcement as policy - but there is little need to shift meaning by misquoting, as do you.

            •  "oil spills today generally don't cause spills" (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              ej25

              that's a direct quote.  How out of context is that.  He said that we need to drill offshore two days before that.  I think he meant that it was very safe to drill offshore.  Of course it isn't.  And when there is a gusher like this one the spill becomes catastrophic.  The point is that he opened up offshore drilling around the East Coast and Florida.  Then he said this statement a couple of days later.  This isn't a misquote, or taken out of context.  This was exactly the context.

              Obama's Potemkin Village keeps falling away.

              by Churchill on Tue Jun 15, 2010 at 07:02:09 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

        •  he said EXACTLY that (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          ej25

          Obama dined with David Brooks, Bill Kristol, Charles Krauthammer & George Will; but not with Kos

          by Churchill on Mon Jun 14, 2010 at 10:03:48 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

  •  Bush's defenders never clued in, similar now? (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    ej25, svboston

    I'm not a NeoCon.  I was an Obama supporter.  Now we know that he's not a progressive.  People just can't seem to realize this.  But if this won't convince you, if the No CHANGE in DADT, if the no go on the Employee Free Choice Act no-go, then nothing will.

    Obama dined with David Brooks, Bill Kristol, Charles Krauthammer & George Will; but not with Kos

    by Churchill on Mon Jun 14, 2010 at 09:43:11 PM PDT

    •  That sounds like a bad babelfish re-translation. (7+ / 0-)
    •  You sound like a tea bagger… (3+ / 0-)

      …who is more concerned with party purity than political reality.

      Teh stoopidTM, it hurts. Buy smart, union-printed, USA-made, signs, stickers, swag for everyone: DemSign.com

      by DemSign on Mon Jun 14, 2010 at 10:16:50 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I'm not a TB, I'm concerned when BO makes (0+ / 0-)

        decisions but doesn't really ask the right questions to the right people.  He's inside a bubble in Washington, and he's not getting the information that he needs.

        Obama dined with David Brooks, Bill Kristol, Charles Krauthammer & George Will; but not with Kos

        by Churchill on Mon Jun 14, 2010 at 10:33:10 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  oh, I see... you're concerned (0+ / 0-)

          so concerned that 75% of the comments on your diary are by you.

          Interesting. Get the fuck lost, troll.

          •  A troll wouldn't waste this much time on Obama (0+ / 0-)

            I'm not a troll.  I'm just trying to wake people up to his decision making method.  You're a GenXer.  You have to pay for these huge mistakes.  I'll retire soon.  Keep the cult of personality and see where it gets your generation with Obama.

            Obama's Potemkin Village keeps falling away.

            by Churchill on Tue Jun 15, 2010 at 07:15:25 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

      •  You sound like an apologist (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        virtual0
        Unable to deal with facts.

        Obama is not a progresive, he is, at best, centrist and the proof is he proactively trades-off progressive goals before negotiating, as the diarist correctly states.

        It's not a matter of purity; no such thing exists in Washington, putridity is closer to the mark.

        Obama has pretty much tossed the progressive positions he took on the campaign out the window or demoted them to oblivion on his agenda.

        I stood by him last year because the economic crisis was the essential issue he had to deal with, but this year he has seemingy taken every available opportunity to demote whatever shreads of a progresive agenda remained and is even failing to use what could be an excellent opportunity to promote progressive issues on the environment in order to seal the deal for oil and coal companies.

        Actually, you seem to be the person with the purity issue; whatever Obama does is right and any criticism is unpure, no?

        "Life immitates art, but takes license." - ko

        by koNko on Mon Jun 14, 2010 at 10:48:06 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Oh please! (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Churchill, koNko

        The DLC talking points grow every more hollow.

        Don't let the awful be the enemy of the horrifically bad.

        by virtual0 on Mon Jun 14, 2010 at 10:53:29 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  Obama and Offshore Drilling... (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    maracucho

    On April 2, 2010, President Obama said that oil rigs generally don't cause oil spills...I want to know what kind of review he did before he made this huge policy change, and this huge idiotic statement

    Obama conducted a very lame review.

  •  Obama review overheard (5+ / 0-)

    Obama : Hey Salazar do oil rigs cause spills.

    Salazar: No Sir, I asked the guys at MMS. They explained how environmentalists cause spills.

    Obama: Thanks Ken, its always important to get an expert opinion.

    fact does not require fiction for balance

    by mollyd on Mon Jun 14, 2010 at 09:53:20 PM PDT

  •  Try to keep up with the times, could you? (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    moonpal

    They tortured people to get false confessions to justify invading Iraq.

    by yet another liberal on Mon Jun 14, 2010 at 09:53:49 PM PDT

  •  Not to quibble, but if Obama actually said those (9+ / 0-)

    words, then I am instantly reminded of the old saw "Guns don't kill people... people kill people."  Oil rigs don't cause spills... soulless executives cause spills."

    Oil rigs are a tool of the human race to fuel our activities.  No more or less risky, inherently, than using a buzz saw.

    BP was negligent and caused the spill.  Halliburton was negligent and caused the spill.  The era of conservative deregulation caused the spill.

    Bartender, make mine a Markos Marxist Maoist Muslim Molato Moulitsas Mojito.

    by DontTaseMeBro on Mon Jun 14, 2010 at 09:55:56 PM PDT

  •  Do some math (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    ChicDemago, mll, ban nock, Socratic Method

    Divide the number of rig-induced oil spills by the total number of oil spills and I bet you get a rather small number.

    Divide number of rig-induced spills by the total number of rigs and I bet you still get a rather small number.

    President Obama said that oil rigs generally don't cause oil spills

    In this context, the word "generally" roughly means "usually", which means more than 50% of the time.  Remember those rather small fractions I mentioned above?  There is no way in hell they are going to approach 50%.

    Therefore, the President is right.

    •  Nuke Energy is generally safe is a CRAZY arg (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      svboston

      because when it isn't safe, you have three mile island and Chernobel.

      Obama dined with David Brooks, Bill Kristol, Charles Krauthammer & George Will; but not with Kos

      by Churchill on Mon Jun 14, 2010 at 10:01:38 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I agree (0+ / 0-)

        I don't think nuclear plants are safe long-term.

        They tortured people to get false confessions to justify invading Iraq.

        by yet another liberal on Mon Jun 14, 2010 at 10:03:15 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  But the statement is accurate (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        mll, Churchill

        If you want to talk about the consequences of just one oil spill and what implications that has for spill prevention, drill restrictions, conservation, alternative energy investment, well those would be topics worthy of discussion.

        But the statement attributed to the President is factually correct.

        •  He dealed away the environment to get GOP support (0+ / 0-)

          and you know I'm correct.  He signed it away for a couple of GOP votes.

          Obama dined with David Brooks, Bill Kristol, Charles Krauthammer & George Will; but not with Kos

          by Churchill on Mon Jun 14, 2010 at 10:24:28 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  No, you assert you are right (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            ban nock

            However, assertions aside, it is still nothing more than an opinion.  President Obama is stuck with the hand he has been dealt.

            Just suppose for a moment we shut off all offshore oil rigs tomorrow.  Since that oil drives the agriculture that supports our population, the sudden loss of foodstuffs would drive a massive die-off due to starvation.  However, starving people don't just lie there until they die.  They eat everything around them first--an unfortunate truth that has horrific implications for everything from pets to endangered species.  They also burn everything around them for cooking fuel:  wood, dung, tires, coal, etc.

            We don't need a rout, we need an orderly transition from oil and mass consumption to sustainable energy and sustainable lifestyles.  It isn't going to happen in the next 10 years.

        •  I believe, generally, we are talking about (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Churchill
          The impact of offshore oil spills.

          Not one, thousands.

          Research the data and do the math. By your reasoning, generally, if an oil rig is out at sea, there is a risk of leakage and accident that cause such disasters, and there have been at least thousands of oil spills from offshore rigs in the past 50 years or so they have been used.

          Do you live in the US?  Do you consume oil?

          I suggest you take a holiday to the beaches of Nigeria, a country that supplies a large fraction of the oil consumed by the US. You could have fun collecting tar balls and take them home as souveners.

          Dude/Dudette: The BP leak is the worst in US history. Before that, it was the Exxon Vadez spill.

          Keep going folks, if we give it the old college try, I'm sure those records can be broken.

          "Life immitates art, but takes license." - ko

          by koNko on Mon Jun 14, 2010 at 11:08:22 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  '79 gulf oil spill in 200 feet of water (0+ / 0-)

            close to the shore, and it was huge.  Minor oil spills of a few thousand gallon aren't the issue here.
            There can be dozens of those and they don't have the effect of the BP spill

            Obama's Potemkin Village keeps falling away.

            by Churchill on Mon Jun 14, 2010 at 11:14:38 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

    •  1/2 time they do, & then the aftermath is HUGE (0+ / 0-)

      Obama dined with David Brooks, Bill Kristol, Charles Krauthammer & George Will; but not with Kos

      by Churchill on Mon Jun 14, 2010 at 10:06:01 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Dunk your head in the oil spill (0+ / 0-)
      And you could get dead.

      Watch it come into shore and contaminate the land and you could get unemployed.

      But it would just be a fraction of the total US population, statictically a blip on the screen.

      Therefore, the President is right!

      "Life immitates art, but takes license." - ko

      by koNko on Mon Jun 14, 2010 at 11:00:29 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Admin officials did a 1 yr Exhaustive review (0+ / 0-)

    and they were WRONG
    Top Obama administration officials say that they did an exhaustive job marshaling information for more than a year, and that the president asked what he needed to ask when it arrived at his desk. Anyone, they said, would grow complacent about the safety of offshore drilling after decades without a major spill.

    Read more: http://www.mcclatchydc.com/...

    Obama dined with David Brooks, Bill Kristol, Charles Krauthammer & George Will; but not with Kos

    by Churchill on Mon Jun 14, 2010 at 10:02:20 PM PDT

  •  BO's Potemkin Village is fading, bit by bit (0+ / 0-)

    Obama dined with David Brooks, Bill Kristol, Charles Krauthammer & George Will; but not with Kos

    by Churchill on Mon Jun 14, 2010 at 10:05:19 PM PDT

    •  Nope (4+ / 0-)

      You aren't taking many others down with you.

      They tortured people to get false confessions to justify invading Iraq.

      by yet another liberal on Mon Jun 14, 2010 at 10:06:36 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  he's taking you down with him, but of course' (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        svboston

        I forgot, there can be no criticism of this president.  He never makes a mistake. Sure, he's better than McCain, but that's not saying much.  He's MUCH better than the idiot Palin, but he's getting crazies an easier path to the White House with this small errors.  He approved offshore oil drilling after he know that the MMS wasn't regulating anything.

        Obama dined with David Brooks, Bill Kristol, Charles Krauthammer & George Will; but not with Kos

        by Churchill on Mon Jun 14, 2010 at 10:23:11 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Of course you would reach for that lame defense (0+ / 0-)

          They tortured people to get false confessions to justify invading Iraq.

          by yet another liberal on Mon Jun 14, 2010 at 10:24:08 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  he gave away the environment for GOP votes (0+ / 0-)

            so what is his progressive principles? I hate the principles bull because the GOP crazies have been using that cliche for decades, but does BO have any progressive principles that he will not give away in a
            backroom deal?

            Obama dined with David Brooks, Bill Kristol, Charles Krauthammer & George Will; but not with Kos

            by Churchill on Mon Jun 14, 2010 at 10:26:17 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

        •  I was talking about (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          ban nock

          The "can be no criticism" part.

          I don't care about water fell over the damn.  And it wasn't exactly approving of offhsore drilling.  That train left the station long before Obama.

          The political realities are changing fast here and Obama is on our side on this ... much more than we'd expect from anywhere else, for sure.

          I'll take what I can get myself.

          They tortured people to get false confessions to justify invading Iraq.

          by yet another liberal on Mon Jun 14, 2010 at 10:27:03 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

  •  Wizard of Oz, pull the curtain back moment (0+ / 0-)

    and people are slowly getting a clue about this.

    Obama dined with David Brooks, Bill Kristol, Charles Krauthammer & George Will; but not with Kos

    by Churchill on Mon Jun 14, 2010 at 10:06:50 PM PDT

  •  Obama was right. (5+ / 0-)

    There are more than 700 offshore oil rigs and platforms in the Gulf of Mexico alone. Map here (click on oil rigs).

    And according to this (somewhat dated) source, 98% of oil spills in the US occur on land, and (p. 1296) the number of offshore spills each year is in single digits. Unless those figures have dramatically changed in the past decade, most rigs do not cause spills.

    So oil rigs generally don't cause spills. Rare events generally don't happen. That doesn't mean they don't ever happen, or that their consequences are not catastrophic. But what Obama said was and is correct.

    And the diarist definitely has an axe to grind, disingenuous title of this post notwithstanding.

  •  It is one thing to make an error (6+ / 0-)

    it is quite another to admit it

    Guardian

    He acknowledged that the enormity of the Gulf oil spill had forced a change in his earlier thinking that offshore drilling was safe and should remain a vital part of America's energy mix. "Where I was wrong was in my belief that the oil companies had their act together when it came to worst-case scenarios," he said. "It just takes one to have a wake-up call."

    In the choice between changing ones mind and proving there's no need to do so, most people get busy on the proof.

    by jsfox on Mon Jun 14, 2010 at 10:16:06 PM PDT

    •  BP oil DISASTER is an error, just an error? WTF (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      svboston

      that's what's the problem with offshore oil drilling, but ONE error, and it's a huge DISASTER,

      Obama dined with David Brooks, Bill Kristol, Charles Krauthammer & George Will; but not with Kos

      by Churchill on Mon Jun 14, 2010 at 10:17:52 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Thanks BO for acknowleding your "error" (0+ / 0-)

      The people of the Gulf thanks you, too. You are so cool.  Thank you.  This error was just a wake-up call.

      Obama dined with David Brooks, Bill Kristol, Charles Krauthammer & George Will; but not with Kos

      by Churchill on Mon Jun 14, 2010 at 10:18:59 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Safe to say (5+ / 0-)

        it would be something you would find difficult. Since you seem so certain from the moral high ground you have constructed. So I will leave you to it.

        In the choice between changing ones mind and proving there's no need to do so, most people get busy on the proof.

        by jsfox on Mon Jun 14, 2010 at 10:27:00 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  I have acknowledged my error supporting BO (0+ / 0-)

          and I don't have a problem listing my errors.  Sure, BO was the only choice, and Hillary wouldn't have done much better.  He's much better than McCain, but big deal.  

          Obama dined with David Brooks, Bill Kristol, Charles Krauthammer & George Will; but not with Kos

          by Churchill on Mon Jun 14, 2010 at 10:30:03 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Here's your diary (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            amk for obama, ban nock

            I have acknowledged my error supporting BO and I don't have a problem listing my errors.  Sure, BO was the only choice, and Hillary wouldn't have done much better.  He's much better than McCain, but big deal.

            Here's your diary in a nutshell. You did not successfully disprove that in general oil rigs don't cause oil spills.

            If this BP explosion were a routine expectation of offshore drilling then this diary would not be filled with pages and pages of astonishment.

            Yet he we are astonished, overwhelmed and helpless because this event is not like the normative events that accompany the vast majority of oil rigs all over the globe.

            This is unprecedented.

            You don't like Barack Hussein Obama. Cool. Some do. You don't.

            For the record he never sold himself as a progressive or ran to be President of progressives. To suggest he's running away from a progressive platform that he ran on has no basis in his record as a legislator in Illinois, in any of his books about his political philosophy or in his campaign for President.

            Kucinich, Gravel and Edwards ran as progressives. Barack Hussein Obama did not.

            As far as his oil rig statement goes. It was true when he said it and it remains true.

            In general, because of the numerous technological advances that have occurred since the Santa Barbara oil spill, rigs were vastly improved, and in general do not cause spills.

            There is nothing general about this unprecedented oil volcano and the criminal negligence that led up to it.

            •  list the progressive policy he didn't adopt (0+ / 0-)

              oh wait, he said he would support progressive issues, but would is the decision word, at the time.  If everything was aligned he would support progressive policies.  But of course that is a work dance.  

              Obama's Potemkin Village keeps falling away.

              by Churchill on Tue Jun 15, 2010 at 07:07:04 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

            •  Whether I like Obama or not isn't the issue (0+ / 0-)

              he's probably a nice guy.  But he is making huge policy changes based on very little.  The fact that he's not a progressive president is something that I can accept.  But the fact that he is adopting conservative, deregulation policies is not good for the country.  It's not about Obama.

              Obama's Potemkin Village keeps falling away.

              by Churchill on Tue Jun 15, 2010 at 07:12:54 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

  •  reality is my moral high ground (0+ / 0-)

    and I don't think anybody will even think I have any moral an DK, but all I can do is say things are wrong, what they are wrong with specific details, and be shouted down on DK.  But ultimately people will see that BO is a corporate supporter, and not a people supporter.

    Obama dined with David Brooks, Bill Kristol, Charles Krauthammer & George Will; but not with Kos

    by Churchill on Mon Jun 14, 2010 at 10:31:41 PM PDT

  •  KOS, "I didn't bust my ass for insurance Co's" (0+ / 0-)

    but we all actually did.  The Public Option Collapse proved that.  KOS said that a few days after BO said he wouldn't support the PO, that was August 18, 2009

    Obama dined with David Brooks, Bill Kristol, Charles Krauthammer & George Will; but not with Kos

    by Churchill on Mon Jun 14, 2010 at 10:34:59 PM PDT

  •  Yes we did Kos, (0+ / 0-)

    Obama dined with David Brooks, Bill Kristol, Charles Krauthammer & George Will; but not with Kos

    by Churchill on Mon Jun 14, 2010 at 10:35:24 PM PDT

  •  BO's statement: technically accurate & misleading (0+ / 0-)

    Obama dined with David Brooks, Bill Kristol, Charles Krauthammer & George Will; but not with Kos

    by Churchill on Mon Jun 14, 2010 at 10:38:37 PM PDT

  •  McClatchy & Eugene Robinson seem to be right (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Churchill

    Obama decided in 2008 to endorse more offshore drilling as part of his effort to show that he wasn't opposed to "reasonable conservative ideas". Like Tony Blair, he is a smooth, smart and well-intentioned man who is better received overseas than at home and has no stomach for fighting. Obama had made up his mind on this issue before he studied all those maps this spring.

    He puts too much trust in a circle of advisers - Geithner, Summers, Carol Browner, none of whom know anything about the oil business, most of whom tilt heavily toward big business. The critical difference is between spills which are relatively common and usually easily handled and blowouts which are much less common, can be controlled with great difficulty on land- think Red Adair- and are uncontrollable undersea except by the tedious method of drilling relief wells. Did any of his inner circle tell him anything about Ixtoc 1, the Gulf Blowout of 1979 and the Timor Sea Montara blowout of 2009? Neither one of those blowouts could be controlled with fill kills and maneuvers like that. They were shallow water blowouts controlled months later with relief wells. Had any of his advisers even heard of Ixtoc & Montara?

    When the next undersea blowout comes, in shallow or deep water, the odds are that it will continue for months until a relief well kills it. Can Obama be honest with the country about that?

    BP is the main culprit here because they cut many corners in their rush to save money. They are liable for all direct costs. Obama however was guilty of hubris and relying on a circle of very limited advisers. I hope that he learns from his mistakes. Salazar, Lubchenco, even the Admiral - performed poorly. The Coast Guard consistently lowballed the problem and helped block access of reporters to oil scenes and the Houston control center. What about the resignations of Elizabeth Birnbaum and Chris Oynes- top MMS people- what does McClatchy say about them? There are some stories yet to come out.

    •  political campaign decision, then admin review (0+ / 0-)

      and the review was minor, and didn't bring into the politics the reality of this situation.

      Obama's Potemkin Village keeps falling away.

      by Churchill on Mon Jun 14, 2010 at 11:12:31 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  excellent comment, much better than my diary (0+ / 0-)

      I just want to know what the heck is happening with this BP blowout.  That's why I wrote the dairy.  I want to know.  I don't have the answers, but it seems that you have some answers, and some very good questions that might help me understand what the holy heck went wrong.

      Obama's Potemkin Village keeps falling away.

      by Churchill on Mon Jun 14, 2010 at 11:19:45 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  More info on Obama's decision-making process (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Churchill

    from the McClatchy article

    Obama Overlooked Key Points in Giving OK to Offshore Drilling
    Friday 11 June 2010

    Obama did roll back some of the offshore drilling that the George W. Bush administration had approved on Bush's last day in office. However, Obama never challenged the Bush era's fundamental faith in the oil industry or its ability to clean up a massive spill. Instead, he embraced expanded offshore drilling, in part to win Republican support for broader legislation to curb climate change.

    ...he met twice with the top administration officials on the oil drilling question. Aides couldn't recall details of the deliberations, such as the date of the last meeting with the president or the length of the memo they gave him on oil drilling.
    "I had never had an inquiry about how we made that decision," one top aide said, until after "one of them blew up in the Gulf."

    ...In the Roosevelt Room, Obama met with Browner, Salazar and others, including Chief of Staff Rahm Emanuel, Deputy Chief of Staff Mona Sutphen and Budget Director Peter Orszag.

    Obama never reached out himself to prominent dissenters such as marine scientist Steiner [just like he shut out single payer advocates], who'd argued to Interior against expanding offshore drilling. Steiner had worked on oil spill responses from the Exxon Valdez in 1989 through today's Gulf spill.

    As he reviewed the pending decision, Obama didn't ask for more information about the Minerals Management Service. Now infamous but little-known then, the MMS is the primary agency that oversees oil drilling.

    He also laid some blame on the MMS.
    "Prior to this accident happening, I think there was a lack of anticipating what the worst-case scenarios would be. And that's a problem," he said. "And part of that problem was lodged in MMS and the way that that agency was structured. That was the agency in charge of providing permitting and making decisions in terms of where drilling could take place, but also in charge of enforcing the safety provisions."

    Yet Obama didn't ask about the MMS when he was weighing whether to expand drilling on the Outer Continental Shelf.

    ..Obama also didn't personally quiz the Coast Guard or Adm. Thad Allen, who'd run an oil spill exercise off Louisiana in 2002 and who'd be the national commander of any federal oil spill response.

    Some presidents like to reach outside official channels for unfiltered advice. Bill Clinton, for example, loved to call people late into the night.

    ...He didn't seek such outside expertise until the spill, however, at least not to ask about oil drilling technology in deep water or oil-spill response plans.

    ..A president's decisions are only as good as the information that generates them. That point was driven home in early 1961, when an inexperienced President John F. Kennedy blindly signed off on what would become the disastrous Bay of Pigs invasion of Cuba.

    Looks like Obama routinely shuts out all voices that could be seen as remotely progressive and not friendly to the corporate interests, to the detriment of good decisions and the public interest. Remember when he totally shut out single payer advocates, Howard Dean, Volker... As long as Rahm's there, what more do you need?

    Don't let the awful be the enemy of the horrifically bad.

    by virtual0 on Mon Jun 14, 2010 at 11:20:04 PM PDT

    •  that's what I was scared to death was happening (0+ / 0-)

      shot out voiced of dissent.  I'm just asking a question now, so don't get mad, but I recall that George W Bush did this also.  

      Obama's Potemkin Village keeps falling away.

      by Churchill on Mon Jun 14, 2010 at 11:24:11 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  You lost me in your first paragraph (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    amk for obama, FiredUpInCA

    I like health care, and am glad Obama did what no one else could. If he expended the same effort into reveiwing energy policy he must have done a pretty good job.

    "Don't fall or we both go" Derek Hersey

    by ban nock on Tue Jun 15, 2010 at 02:58:01 AM PDT

    •  He main a huge policy change based on little (0+ / 0-)

      evidence.  He said that his team studies this for over a year to base his policy decision.  As a basic fact he stated an obvious false fact.  Oil rigs do cause oil spills, and sometimes HUGE oil spills.  If 99 percent don't have oil spills, but 1 percent have oil spills lie this, then it's all a word game.

      He should be called president word game.

      If 99.9 percent of the USA's nuclear weapons were safe, but one went off by accident, would we be safe? Of course not.  The nuclear weapon accident went off in the gulf called the Deepwater Horizon blowout.

      His word games are catching up with him.

      Obama's Potemkin Village keeps falling away.

      by Churchill on Tue Jun 15, 2010 at 07:11:24 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  5 % thought Obama did methodical, careful (0+ / 0-)

    analysis of Offshore Oil Drilling. That's not much confidence that he did a good job on this.

    Obama's Potemkin Village keeps falling away.

    by Churchill on Tue Jun 15, 2010 at 07:13:51 AM PDT

Subscribe or Donate to support Daily Kos.

Click here for the mobile view of the site