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You might recall that on Monday, House Minority Leader John Boehner served up the mother of all campaign meatball pitches when he went after Social Security in an interview with the Pittsburgh Tribune-Review.

Yesterday, Democrats from Boehner's home state of Ohio took their cuts:

In a press conference on Capitol Hill today, House Democrats in the Ohio delegation vigorously attacked House Minority Leader John Boehner for his recent suggestion -- among other things -- to raise the qualification to receive Social Security benefits

*  *  *  *  *  *

Ohio Democrats -- many in extremely competitive districts -- slammed Boehner for these comments, calling him "out of touch" and accusing him of being an elitist.

Tim Ryan, the thirtysomething Congressman from eastern Ohio once seen as a potential 2010 Senate candidate, arguably got in the shot of the day at the Republican leader:

“People who work for a living with their hands, who don’t wear ties and suits and nice dresses and jewelry and play golf and hang out don’t have the luxury of an additional five to ten years of back breaking work -- it’s not going to happen.”

An unsurprising counterattack was swiftly offered by Team Boehner, who pointed to Social Security remarks made by House Majority Leader Steny Hoyer just last week at a pandering address before the DLC-esque group Third Way.

Granted, it is never fun to see a member of the Democratic leadership going full pander in front of the Democrats Loathing Democrats Society, or whatever the heck they are calling themselves these days.

But I think most voters can appreciate the distinction between being willing to put "all options on the table" (as Hoyer did in his little bile-inducing address) and wanting to hack at social security in order to free up some spending money to perpetuate some wars.

Also, it is useful to remember that Nancy Pelosi, who still outranks Steny Hoyer, comes down much more on the side of her Ohio Democratic colleagues than she does on any Hoyer-esque pablum doled out to the crew at Third Way.

Ergo, whose vision for social security in the future bears a better chance of actually seeing the light of day--John Boehner's or Steny Hoyer's?

Originally posted to Daily Kos on Thu Jul 01, 2010 at 03:36 PM PDT.

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Comment Preferences

  •  Boehner picked a hell of a time (12+ / 0-)

    to give up drinking.

    Well Boehner is half right, The problem is an Ant, it's just that the Ant is 15' long and eats humans

    by JML9999 on Thu Jul 01, 2010 at 03:39:41 PM PDT

  •  Dear John Boehner (7+ / 0-)

    STFU and get back in the tanning booth.

    Republican ideas are like sacks of manure but without the sacks.

    by ontheleftcoast on Thu Jul 01, 2010 at 03:40:12 PM PDT

  •  Neither Boehner's nor Hoyer's (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Dallasdoc, Clytemnestra, Eric Nelson

    SS is a third rail and will not be cut, certainly not by a Democratic Congress and President.

    "My name is Inigo Montoya. You killed my father. Prepare to die."

    by davewill on Thu Jul 01, 2010 at 03:40:29 PM PDT

    •  You're in for a shock. (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      "Israel does not any longer occupy the West Bank or Gaza. They left." Rep. Weiner

      by JesseCW on Thu Jul 01, 2010 at 03:51:33 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I don't think so. (0+ / 0-)

        It would be political suicide...really...there would be no way to recover from it.

        "My name is Inigo Montoya. You killed my father. Prepare to die."

        by davewill on Thu Jul 01, 2010 at 03:55:59 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  "Who you gonna vote for instead, Republicans?" (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          valadon, wsexson

          A large part of the Party leadership is convinced that argument is enough.

          I've already heard "We have to have Demcrats cut it, or the Republicans will cut it even worse when they're in power."

          "Israel does not any longer occupy the West Bank or Gaza. They left." Rep. Weiner

          by JesseCW on Thu Jul 01, 2010 at 04:05:50 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  and that is what is scaring me (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            walkabout, JesseCW, Eric Nelson

            they need to get off this stupid deficit track that the Republicans keep don't do that until you have recovery and that doesn't look like it's happening anytime soon. We need massive spending and jobs.

            Just because Wall street has a less anemic appearance doesn't mean Main street is out of the woods yet!.

            Language is wine upon the lips. -Virginia Woolf

            by valadon on Thu Jul 01, 2010 at 04:11:59 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          •  Yes, that's exactly what the seniors will do (0+ / 0-)

            after the Repugs get done running attack ads. Logic doesn't win elections as often as feelings do.

            "My name is Inigo Montoya. You killed my father. Prepare to die."

            by davewill on Thu Jul 01, 2010 at 04:18:36 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Why? They're not going to do anything to Seniors (0+ / 0-)

              They're going to focus on cutting the benefits of people under 50.

              "Israel does not any longer occupy the West Bank or Gaza. They left." Rep. Weiner

              by JesseCW on Thu Jul 01, 2010 at 04:20:17 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  Do actually believe that FoxNews, (0+ / 0-)

                the tea baggers, and the Republicans are too stupid to attack the Dems no matter HOW the cut is structured? I don't.

                "My name is Inigo Montoya. You killed my father. Prepare to die."

                by davewill on Thu Jul 01, 2010 at 04:25:52 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  They're going to attack Democrats with (0+ / 0-)

                  all they've got, no matter what the Democrats do.

                  That's why they exist.

                  I don't really see how that's relevant, though.

                  "Israel does not any longer occupy the West Bank or Gaza. They left." Rep. Weiner

                  by JesseCW on Thu Jul 01, 2010 at 04:37:30 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

              •  rather than raise retirement age? (0+ / 0-)

                They just did so in France, but at least it was only 60 >62

                Language is wine upon the lips. -Virginia Woolf

                by valadon on Thu Jul 01, 2010 at 04:27:17 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  Raising the retirement age *is* cutting benefits (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:

                  "Israel does not any longer occupy the West Bank or Gaza. They left." Rep. Weiner

                  by JesseCW on Thu Jul 01, 2010 at 04:38:10 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  I know Jesse (0+ / 0-)

                    but you said whatever they were doing was going to affect those under 50.

                    They've got a ways to go to retirement age and it could be lowered later, but it they do it to people near retirement it'd be a travesty. That age group suffers most from unemployment right now etc..

                    Language is wine upon the lips. -Virginia Woolf

                    by valadon on Thu Jul 01, 2010 at 04:44:31 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  There's no way it will be lowered later (1+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:

                      and companies aren't going to start hiring older people in great numbers 20 years from now, either.

                      Someone who is 49 today is 13 years from taking SS early, and given the boom and bust cycles, we'll be in a recession or depression then too.

                      And, btw, young people suffer the highest unemployment the most right now. It'll be even worse, 12 years down the road, if young people have to be competing with two seniors instead of one for every McJob.

                      "Israel does not any longer occupy the West Bank or Gaza. They left." Rep. Weiner

                      by JesseCW on Thu Jul 01, 2010 at 04:48:34 PM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  I don't want them fiddling with it at all (0+ / 0-)

                        I was only making a point. But I agree we might not recover in time for those at that age. I'll concede some younger people are affected in the job market, but that would make it both end of the spectrum the young and near retirement age that can't find work.

                        But young people can recover and stay at home some of them..what do old people do? Camp out in a park?

                        Language is wine upon the lips. -Virginia Woolf

                        by valadon on Thu Jul 01, 2010 at 05:10:06 PM PDT

                        [ Parent ]

                        •  Some of them can crash with their kids (0+ / 0-)

                          same, pretty much, either way.

                          "Israel does not any longer occupy the West Bank or Gaza. They left." Rep. Weiner

                          by JesseCW on Thu Jul 01, 2010 at 07:46:20 PM PDT

                          [ Parent ]

                        •  You're kidding, right? Whose home? You think (1+ / 0-)
                          Recommended by:

                          those "kids" parents aren't affected?  The daisy chain runs into the poor house.

                          You know, we used to make fun of the Soviet Union and the wretched lives of ordinary citizens because the "state" and the military sucked up all the money.  Between the police state and the military, Soviet citizens had miserable housing, long lines at hole in the wall state stores for rationed and poorly made necessities, stainless steel dentures, for god's sake.  The litany of woe was endless and every article, of course, pointed out the wonders of capitalism, which produced enough for ordinary people and the government.  See how much we have here and how our system works and theirs doesn't.

                          With the fall of the Communist system, so we thought and crowed over, came the capitalist inspired and directed theft of state properties.  And we had another round of Russia bashing, this time writ large in the obscene scenario of the oligarchs who called in their loans collateralized with state assets and wound up owning everything.  It's the capitalist way, you understand.  And ordinary Russian citizens got horribly screwed over, again.

                          So, when are Americans going to wise up?  We're making our way down the scale of living and politicians are telling us that American military necessities trump the citizens social programs.  Sound familiar?  Anyone who lived thru the 50s and 60s should remember the rhetoric, but now the shoe is very much on the other foot.

    •  And Nancy Pelosi (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      Just snuck in a vote on the Debt Commision's Recommendation into tonights War Funding Bill. So basically Pelosi just stabbed everybody in the back while criticizing Boehner in the press for saying "exactly" what is going to happen. Pelosi is basically backing the Debt Commission, when are you people going to wake up? No Politician is your friend in either party.

      •  and... (0+ / 0-)

        how exactly do you know "exactly" what will happen?
        At least give me which members of the commission will be willing to vote for SS cuts.
        I want the names and supporting arguments for why they would vote for SS cuts, otherwise this all sounds like hysterical bullshit to me.

  •  q:can we extend UC benefits? a:Hell No you Cant ! (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Clytemnestra, CarolinNJ

    "teabaggers say: i want my country back. well, i say: i want my country forward! ... " (bill.maher)

    by CoEcoCe on Thu Jul 01, 2010 at 03:40:54 PM PDT

  •  Believing voters will see the difference is (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:


    That's the strategy the president seems to be following with having this panel.

    What is more likely to do is the muddy the waters so that a fine political attack is muddied by a "pox on both their houses."

    •  Believing there is a diffence is delusional. (6+ / 0-)

      "I really want to cut it"


      "Gosh, I'm so sorry we had to cut it"

      Achieve the same result.

      To share sacrifices fairly, and to be politically viable, the commission’s proposal can only have one form: an agreement that cuts spending and raises revenue when the economy recovers.

      "On the spending side, we could and should consider a higher retirement age, or one pegged to lifespan; more progressive Social Security and Medicare benefits; and a stronger safety net for the Americans who need it most.  

      we could and should consider a higher retirement age

      They're going to hike the retirement age to 70 for everyone under 50 and likely severely restrict early-ins.  

      or one pegged to lifespan;

      Hoyer is so damned stupid he thinks SS has anything to do with lifespan - older people aren't particularly healthier or more able to get work even if they are living very slightly longer.

      More importantly, almost all the gains in life expectancy over the last 20 years have favored the wealthy.  For the poor, life expectancy is stagnant or dropping.

      and a stronger safety net for the Americans who need it most

      That's means testing.

      What's more, his overall approach is that SS is the place to look to "reduce spending".  He's already accepted the looting of the SS trust fund.

      They appointed a pack of anti-social security ideologoues and CEO's to decide what "The Lesser People" deserve, and now they're running around voicing support for the foregone conclusions.

      I see no reason we should bide our time, letting them frame the debate for six months, before they release their plan to destroy any hope we (those us under 50 and in the bottom 80%) have of retiring.

      "Israel does not any longer occupy the West Bank or Gaza. They left." Rep. Weiner

      by JesseCW on Thu Jul 01, 2010 at 04:02:01 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Pointing out that its an electoral (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        valadon, JesseCW, Eric Nelson

        loser no matter how they frame it should do it.

        The last president who tried this, Bush, saw his numbers plummet. Considering president Obama is at 47 percent, facing a double dip recession with unemployment numbers expected to remain high through 2012, and not delivering big reform in other areas,  he doesn't have that kind of room

        •  They really do seem to think that the (4+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          bruh1, valadon, wsexson, CarolinNJ

          "Republicans are worse" argument will carry them through just about anything.

          "Israel does not any longer occupy the West Bank or Gaza. They left." Rep. Weiner

          by JesseCW on Thu Jul 01, 2010 at 04:12:49 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Speaking of "Sensible" Liberals, there's this (4+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            valadon, JesseCW, CarolinNJ, Eric Nelson

            great Tom of Tomorrow political cartoon up on exactly the subject you mention of using fear of the GOP as a way to control the way ward liberals (their mistake as you mention is to believe it will work with the general population- MA should have been the lesson that this doesn't work):


            Ironically, the cartoon above was posted at Open Left.

            A site now run by newly minted "sensible" Liberal Chris Bowers (a la "I am tired of being broke so I am selling out):


            One of the reasons I remain an old fashion outside of the belt way moderate is that I don't need to play these reindeer games.

        •  Not to mention (0+ / 0-)

          labor support would would any senior groups. There's no reason to touch SS before they roll back Bush/Reagan tax cuts or cut war funding.

          Language is wine upon the lips. -Virginia Woolf

          by valadon on Thu Jul 01, 2010 at 04:21:46 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Yet, BTD over at Talk Left (4+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            valadon, wsexson, JesseCW, CarolinNJ

            Himself a moderate (well a Centrist. I am moderate so we differ as to policy in some ways and how to achieve it) points out a great thought experiment from Ezra Klein (someone I don't normally quote anymore due to his cheerleading during the health care fight):

            "I]magine if Congress is able to extend the deficit-busting Bush tax cuts but not unemployment benefits. But that, of course, is what most people think they're going to do. This will be a test for any politician who claims to care about the deficit. If they're willing to let the tax cuts expire -- a tough decision, given the politics of taxes -- it's good evidence that they're serious about cutting the debt. If they're not willing to let the cuts expire, it's irrefutable evidence that they're not."


            You can tell they aren't serious by what they leave off the table and how much they put on the table. ie, the laughable diary the other day touting 20 bil a year out of the defense budget that now stands at 1 tril. Nevermind that number is less than the percentage of inflation or even projected increases requested. So they are cutting the price gauging down a little.

            •  I agree with you on Ezra & HCR (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:

              what a debacle that was. And that sounds about right. For them to think that in this economy people would be more angry about taxes than losing UI benefits or if they do some fiddling with SS, then they are nuts!

              A lot of mainstream Republicans will ditch that sinking ship if they do this right. If not that's it for us for years to come.

              Language is wine upon the lips. -Virginia Woolf

              by valadon on Thu Jul 01, 2010 at 04:34:39 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  Well, sure, the GOP is doing this just (3+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                valadon, wsexson, JesseCW

                to regain power. That's not the problem. The problem is that we are aiding and abedding their attempt to regain power. THat's the part that seems stupid to me. I can't blame the GOp for wanting to derail us. Its in their interest to do so. Not sure why the same is in our interest.

                •  it's not in our interest (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:

                  that much should be obvious to everyone, but they are afraid of their own shadows and instead of acting offensively they react to what the GOP does.

                  Language is wine upon the lips. -Virginia Woolf

                  by valadon on Thu Jul 01, 2010 at 05:43:36 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  And, there is this from the site that dare (5+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    valadon, wsexson, Eryk, JesseCW, CarolinNJ

                    not speak its name around here:

                    FDL has learned that in a last minute move, Nancy Pelosi sneaked language into the rule that the House is voting on tonight regarding war funding.
                    Embedded in the rule is the requirement that the House will vote on the deficit commission's recommendations in the lame duck session if they pass the Senate.

                    The commission, co-chaired by Erskine Bowles and Alan Simpson, is packed with members who  favor the raising the retirement age to 70, means testing, and private accounts. Many also support investing 20% of the Social Security trust fund in the stock market


                    With later update of this:

                    Pelosi got her wish.  The House will have to give an up-or-down vote to whatever the Catfood Commission recommends.  With Republicans and Blue Dog votes alone, cuts to Social Security benefits should have no trouble passing


                    I have said it before, and it needs repeating- the Democrats are neo-liberals.

                    But, then I am not as sensible as the A-list bloggers have become.

                    •  Bruh (1+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:

                      Tired of the "A" list bloggers who spend their day kissing Obama's ass calling everyone out as a troll who refuses to do the lip lock. Pelosi, Reid, Obama is no better then Boehner, Nelson or Lieberman. Pelosi just did Obama's bidding by sneaking this in right before a major recess. Just like Healthcare, it was all bought, paid for and done way before it even started. Social Security will be cut, sliced and diced and is already done and finished. FDL got it right.

                      •  uh... (1+ / 0-)
                        Recommended by:

                        Pelosi, Reid, Obama is no better then Boehner, Nelson or Lieberman.

                        Utter nonsense.

                        •  If they go with a Bowles/Simpson plan (4+ / 0-)
                          Recommended by:
                          bruh1, valadon, wsexson, CarolinNJ

                          then yes, they are.

                          SS is the best thing we've got when it comes to covnincing people to vote Democrat.  Remember the 2006 surge after Bush tried to fuck with it?

                          Now, what do you think is going to happen when the Democrats destroy it?

                          Pelosi, Reid, and Obama, if they jack the retirement age and or cut benefits and or destroy the program by risking funds in the market and or default on the trust fund, will be taking a course of action that will ensure generational Republican dominance.

                          Which, is, you know, the goal of the Republicans.

                          "Israel does not any longer occupy the West Bank or Gaza. They left." Rep. Weiner

                          by JesseCW on Thu Jul 01, 2010 at 07:57:28 PM PDT

                          [ Parent ]

                    •  so... (0+ / 0-)

                      the gopers on the "catfood commission" will need 6 of the 10 Dems to vote with them.
                      Even in my most negative estimation, I don't see SS cuts getting 6 votes.
                      We'll see if all this foregone despair is accurate soon enough.

                      •  What 10 Democrats???? (3+ / 0-)
                        Recommended by:
                        valadon, wsexson, CarolinNJ

                        There are six elected Democrats and six elected Republicns.

                        Two of the Democrats are DINOs.

                        Then there are the six appointed by the President.

                        One is the CEO of the DLC.  One is the CEO of Honeywell.  One is a retired extremist Republican Senator.  One is a woman who used to profiteer from chocolate she knew to be produced by child slaves.  One is the guy who, when working for Clinton, devised a plan which would have lost the Social Security trust fund in the stock market during the latest crash.

                        Oh, and there's a token Democrat nominee, just for looks.

                        So, we've got 4(four) middle of the pack elected Democrats and one Progressive on the comission.  That's 5 out of 18 (not 16).

                        "Israel does not any longer occupy the West Bank or Gaza. They left." Rep. Weiner

                        by JesseCW on Thu Jul 01, 2010 at 08:01:05 PM PDT

                        [ Parent ]

                      •  Yes, you will. That commission is stacked. (0+ / 0-)

                        We'll see how their proposals fare in congress, but you have no idea how far removed congresspeople are from the rest of the country.  Different universes.

                    •  thnx (0+ / 0-)

                      unlike some others, I may not be a fan of the other site, but I certainly don't feel a need to demonize it either.

                      Language is wine upon the lips. -Virginia Woolf

                      by valadon on Thu Jul 01, 2010 at 08:10:37 PM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                    •  Jeebus Howard Fucking Christ (0+ / 0-)

                      on a pogo stick, how much more of this garbage are we going to put up with before we tell them "No More!"?

            •  Bruh1 - Remember, that was "cuts" to projected (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:

              growth in spending.

              Not even real cuts.

              "Israel does not any longer occupy the West Bank or Gaza. They left." Rep. Weiner

              by JesseCW on Thu Jul 01, 2010 at 04:35:55 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

          •  Senior groups mostly won't care (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            valadon, CarolinNJ

            since they're looking to screw under 50's.

            And remember, a House with 272 Democrats cut Social Security last time, and created the Trust Fund that's going to be looted.

            "Israel does not any longer occupy the West Bank or Gaza. They left." Rep. Weiner

            by JesseCW on Thu Jul 01, 2010 at 04:34:04 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  "They" in this sentence is the Cat Food (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:

              Commission, not Seniors Groups.

              "Israel does not any longer occupy the West Bank or Gaza. They left." Rep. Weiner

              by JesseCW on Thu Jul 01, 2010 at 04:34:49 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  Don't let yourself get hooked into phony gen (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:

                warfare here, which is what Boney is bucking for with his 'only people with twenty years to go before retirement' spiel.

                December is going to be Hell on Wheels in DC, as this comes up, the DOD DADT report comes in theoretically on the very same day as this report, and the last push under the old Congress to keep the Bush tax cuts in effect will be fought out.

            •  Well I got an email from the AARP (0+ / 0-)

              I don't think they're taking any chances.

              Language is wine upon the lips. -Virginia Woolf

              by valadon on Thu Jul 01, 2010 at 08:59:12 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

      •  Then again, re framing (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:

        If the diarist and some of the cheerleaders are the site are any indication-t hey think the lesson of Bush is that one can frame anythign and win just on framing and messaging. THere are some issues that they call the third rail for a reason. I guess they will have to re-learn this very soon.

      •  The average single woman's SS is already about (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:

        two hundred bucks or a bit more less than a man's for the last few years, the man's sitting right on the poverty line and the womens's that much less, and what 'pegged to lifespan' means to me is that since women live longer, their benefits will be reduced more to account for average longer lifespans over which the same amount of money must be spread, not a good sign. I'm also waiting to hear about 'means-testing.' which has already been mentioned without details.

  •  Justin Coussoule's actblue page (7+ / 0-)

    Patriotism means to stand by the country. It does not mean to stand by the president or any other public official... ~Theodore Roosevelt

    by Pam from Calif on Thu Jul 01, 2010 at 03:41:32 PM PDT

  •  Justin Coussoule (6+ / 0-)

    for Congress, OH-8.

    Give the man some lovin. Preferably the green kind.

  •  Re: Conservative Democrats (5+ / 0-)

    This is why they need to be ignored. They are consigning themselves to electoral defeat.

    •  I wish that were all... (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Clytemnestra, Eric Nelson

      Unfortunately, a lot of them are pretty bulletproof, and they will take a lot of good guys down, instead.

      "My name is Inigo Montoya. You killed my father. Prepare to die."

      by davewill on Thu Jul 01, 2010 at 03:44:00 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I disagree. If you look at Cook's list of (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        JesseCW, Eric Nelson

        vulnerable House members, a lot of them are Conservadems as far as I remember. So, they are harming themselves with policies like deficit reduction in the middle of a double dip and blocking various forms of reform. I think real economic populists who are conservative could have weather the fall. But not corporate conservative dems.

    •  Go check out Justin Coussoule (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      beltane, Eric Nelson

      Boehnhead's opponent. This is no conservative Democrat. He's a good progressive, and explains his positions in a clear, sensible way that could work in the district if he can get his message out.

      Time to garden and kick Republican ass.

      by anastasia p on Thu Jul 01, 2010 at 03:50:15 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Yes, I already saw something about him (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:

        I am not questioning his opponent. Its just that the overall party message when the president is setting up deficit panels to look into cutting social security and medicare benefits (even if it doesn't happen) harms all Democrats running because the GOP can throw it back in Dems faces, and the best we can hope for is that the voters will look beyond the mudding of the waters. It doesn't help Boehmer's appoint to have to deal with the mudding.

        •  Huh? (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Eric Nelson

          No, they can't. Because the Democrats are NOT suggesting they cut Social Security and since Republicans ARE, they can hardly "throw it back in Dems faces" that a panel set up by Democats MAY be looking into (perhaps casually) making some changing in Social Security, when in fact, the Republicans are demanding to definitely go a lot farther. So, no.

          Time to garden and kick Republican ass.

          by anastasia p on Thu Jul 01, 2010 at 04:50:18 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

  •  But what really astounded me from that interview (5+ / 0-)

    was the fact that he didn't know what the administration's moratorium on oil was one breath he said he was against the moratorium but thought we should back off on deep water drilling till we know more.  He didn't even KNOW that that is what the moratorium was.  

    This imbecile could be third in line to the presidency if the Republicans took the house majority!  Scary...and scarier.

    "I think it is much more interesting to live not knowing than to have answers that might be wrong." Richard Feynman

    by leema on Thu Jul 01, 2010 at 03:43:03 PM PDT

  •  Hoyer is a bigger obstruction to (9+ / 0-)

    progressivism than Boehner is, because he wields power Boehner doesn't have.

    The Republican Party is dead.

    The real discussion should be about Hoyer, and who should replace his sorry ass.  

    James Carville emerges from the conflagration, riding a burning alligator.

    by shpilk on Thu Jul 01, 2010 at 03:43:09 PM PDT

  •  Just what we need now is a bunch of 60+ people (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    wsexson, walkabout

    hanging on to their jobs when we have record unemployment...

    All evil needs to succeed is for good people to say "the votes aren't there in the Senate."

    by Jacques on Thu Jul 01, 2010 at 03:44:09 PM PDT

  •  GOP the party of "NO" & "HELL NO" n/t (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Clytemnestra, CoEcoCe

    "I want to be in Kentucky when the end of the world comes, because it's always 20 years behind" -Mark Twain

    by vet on Thu Jul 01, 2010 at 03:44:56 PM PDT

  •  Is this new? (0+ / 0-)

    Democrats Loathing Democrats Society

    Someone should copyright it if it is!

    Never confuse kindness and patience with stupidity and weakness!!

    by Joes Steven on Thu Jul 01, 2010 at 03:45:12 PM PDT

  •  Tim Ryan forgot to ref. the spray tan spa visits (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    beltane, Eric Nelson

    in what people who work with their hands for a living don't visit, regularly, to the point of looking like an Oompa Loopa with a glandular problem

  •  Rumors that Obama Administration would tackle (0+ / 0-)

    Social Security problem in the first term, heh, nobody can fix it so don't even try.

    There are some odd ducks here.

    by Heh on Thu Jul 01, 2010 at 03:51:02 PM PDT

    •  deficit commission will offer to lift the cap, (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      and gradually, lift the age to entry to 67 over the next ten years.

      "teabaggers say: i want my country back. well, i say: i want my country forward! ... " (bill.maher)

      by CoEcoCe on Thu Jul 01, 2010 at 03:53:07 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  What do you think the "age to entry" is now? (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        wsexson, CoEcoCe

        It's 67 for full benefits already for everyone born after 1960.

        "Israel does not any longer occupy the West Bank or Gaza. They left." Rep. Weiner

        by JesseCW on Thu Jul 01, 2010 at 04:03:57 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  fine, then they'll turn it up to 70. (0+ / 0-)

          people are living longer, and prefer to keep productive longer then before. there is some reason behind it..

          "teabaggers say: i want my country back. well, i say: i want my country forward! ... " (bill.maher)

          by CoEcoCe on Thu Jul 01, 2010 at 04:12:41 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Yes, There is some reason behind it. (4+ / 0-)

            They took 2.5 trillion that was set aside to fund Social Security and gave it to the rich in the form of tax cuts under Bush.

            The Rich (which includes most of the House and all of the Senate) don't want to pay it back to us.

            First -

            Most of us aren't living longer.  Millenials are likely to be the first generation to die younger than their parents.  In the last 20 years, almost all the gains in life expectancy have gone to the top 20% in terms of income.

            Second -

            SS was never intended to provide X years of benefits.  It's intended as insurance for those who have reached an age were it's simply not realistic to expect them to find work with which they can support themselves.

            70 year olds can't kick carpet or dig ditches or flip matresses all day anymore now than they could 30 years ago, regardless of any increases in life expectancy.

            Third -

            All we have to do to keep it solvent is fiddle with the cap and/or adjust SS witholding.  Less than 1% increase in witholding (leaving the cap alone) will make it fully solvent, as long as we make the rich pay back their tax cuts to the SS trust fund.

            "Israel does not any longer occupy the West Bank or Gaza. They left." Rep. Weiner

            by JesseCW on Thu Jul 01, 2010 at 04:19:16 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          •  Yes, they are LIVING longer (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Ahianne, wsexson, Eric Nelson

            but losing their jobs earlier. So what do they do if they lose their job at 50 or 55 and can't find meaningful work but can't afford to retire?

            Time to garden and kick Republican ass.

            by anastasia p on Thu Jul 01, 2010 at 04:52:09 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          •  That and lifting the cap on the income on which (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:

            FICA is computed and payable have always been the two remedies which were said to make SS solvent again, without a lot more. The real question is whether the Commission potysies around with private benefit plans again, after what happened to all the folk in 2008 who lost half or more of all they had saved.

        •  It's 70 for full benefits (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Eric Nelson

          for someone born before 1955. I have to work until I'm 70 already to get any meaningful amount. I hope I can hang on. Thanks to the Bush administration, my IRA is close to worthless.

          Time to garden and kick Republican ass.

          by anastasia p on Thu Jul 01, 2010 at 04:51:24 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  No, it's 67. You can get a bonus by waiting (0+ / 0-)

            untill you're 70, and taking it late.

            That's why Bush arranged from them to start sending us misleading "statements", so they could trick people like that.

            The statement is highly misleading, btw, unless you're close to retirement.

            In the future, you'll very likely make more than you do now (assuming you're under 50) simply thanks to inflation but also likely because of carreer arc.

            If you've recently missed a whole year or two due to having a child or being long-term unemployed in the current economy, then your "projected" benefit will also be way out of whack.

            "Israel does not any longer occupy the West Bank or Gaza. They left." Rep. Weiner

            by JesseCW on Thu Jul 01, 2010 at 07:50:52 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

    •  S.S. is really easy to fix. (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      Just tax everyone on all their income, or collect  on the same percentage of income for everyone?

       The way it is now, it's only the less well off who pay on their entire income.  People with huge incomes only pay on income up to a certain amount, which isn't very much for the very rich.  This was done by Ronald Reagan, and it essentially made S.S. payments a regressive tax that collects a greater percentage of income from the poor than it does from the wealthy.  Correcting this would solve the S.S. problem.  

      Why not collect the same percentage from all people?  That would solve the problem.

      •  And collect it on all that they receive in (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:

        exchange for services including stock and options, not just those who get paid wages or salaries alone. If insurance guys have to pay on the commissions they get paid to their companies, so should the high flying Wall Streeters.

  •  Most Americans know that at the end of the (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    TJ, wsexson, Utah Simple, Eric Nelson
    day, there's assholes like Hoyer who want to cut their Social Security while mouthing platitudes about how they "regret having to do it", and assholes like Boehner who openly salivate at the thought of cutting it....but that all that matters is whether their Social Security is gutted.

    We saw how "open to" a mandate went, and "open to" dropping drug reimportation went, and "open to" no public option went...

    So, do you really think we're stupid enough for this sort of spin to be effective?

    "Israel does not any longer occupy the West Bank or Gaza. They left." Rep. Weiner

    by JesseCW on Thu Jul 01, 2010 at 03:51:04 PM PDT

  •  Congressman Anthony Weiner (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    walkabout, beltane, Eric Nelson, IProfess

    excerpt email:

    The Pittsburgh Tribune-Review is reporting that Republican House Leader John Boehner thinks, "Ensuring there's enough money to pay for the war will require reforming the country's entitlement system."

    That’s Republican-ese for, "We should cut Social Security to pay billions more for more war." That’s not what Democrats believe in, and we can’t back down now.

    UBS gave customers code names untraceable pay phones encrypted computers fake trusts document shredding and counter surveillance training.

    by anyname on Thu Jul 01, 2010 at 03:58:29 PM PDT

  •  I honestly don't know how anyone can take... (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    wonderful world, beltane, Eric Nelson

    Republicans seriously.

    Yes, I am consistently frustrated by Dems lack of ability to grab truth and science by the reigns and ride in on the high ground debunking bullshit left and right.

    However. I am completely astonished at the crap people believe. The sad part is that a large part of the population that is actually duped by Republican politicians.

    The good thing is that by all evidence we are not a "center right nation" as many would have us believe.

    On issue after issue the majority of people take the liberal stance.

    "Trying to hold back the revision of history is always a good thing." -- Peter Christopherson

    by jethrock on Thu Jul 01, 2010 at 04:02:37 PM PDT

  •  Have a nice summer Boner...btw....How's yer (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:


  •  Thanks to all for the mention and support (10+ / 0-)

    None of the galactically stupid things that Boehner has said in the last 48 hours should be surprising to those of us who have the misfortune of his misrepresentation.  He has no idea what it's like to put in a long day's work - like Scarborough said on MSNBC yesterday, word on the Hill is that he isn't exactly a hard working guy with much of a work ethic.  So when he proposes something like raising the Social Security retirement eligibility age to 70, he says it knowing it will never impact him.  And that's what Boehner is about - himself, and his fat-cat corporate-lobbyist-sponsored golfing lifestyle.

    What he's NOT about is truly representing the people in his district.  The 12.7% unemployment in OH-8 is higher than the national average.  We used to make things that people needed and bought, like cars, washing machines, and ATMs, but thanks to unfair trade policies endorsed by Boehner and the GOP, these jobs have been outsourced over the last 20 years to the point that our once-proud manufacturing base is a shell of what it once was.  He's so out of touch with his constituents that he compares to the greatest financial meltdown since the Great Depression to an "ant" and the financial regulation reform to a "nuclear weapon."  Worst of all, he doesn't even think about or care what the ramifications are because he thinks he's untouchable.

    Well, I have a message for John Boehner this year - nobody is untouchable.  Especially not a 20 year incumbent who cannot articulate a single meaningful thing he's done for the people in Ohio's 8th District.  I'm in this race not because it's easy, but because it's important.  I'm in this race because we get the government we deserve, and I believe that I, my wife, my kids, my neighbors, my friends, and all of the people in the 8th District deserve much better than John Boehner.

    If you think Ohio's 8th - and the nation - deserve better than John Boehner, join me in my fight. Join me on Facebook; follow me on Twitter; even donate to the campaign, if you can.  With a little help from a lot of people, we can make a difference this November. Thanks for your support.

  •  if i'm not mistaken (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Andrew C White, Christy1947

    i read something a few months ago about how the social security administration was holding an IOU worth billions or so from congress and that the money they "borrowed" from SSI was paying for the wars.

    if that is true, it would seem that congressman bonehead(typo but i'm not changin' it) is really trying to find a way out of paying back to SSI what congress owes.

  •  Boehner's worst comment (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    jethrock, bamajunky, Eric Nelson

    was that he straight out advocated stealing people' social security money to spend on other things.

    Social Security money is not taxes. It does not become the governments money. Boehner said something to the effect that people would have to prove they don't have other income before receiving their Social Security money. That's called stealing. Where is the Tea Bag outrage over that? People pay into social security and they get their money back when they retire. End of story. There are no income qualifications. It is not a give away of the governments money or someone elses money.

    Boehner wants to steal your social security money! - Time to reboot the New York State Senate

    by Andrew C White on Thu Jul 01, 2010 at 04:13:52 PM PDT

    •  Agree with your first sentence, but not the rest (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Justanothernyer, Eric Nelson

      SS is not a savings account ... SS is a wealth transfer across generations.  There is no "account" with your name on it - read the fine print on your statement.  

    •  Lemmee see, Boney now says that all of those (0+ / 0-)

      people the Rs urged to get themselves additional private retirement funds because SS would not be there to rely upon, are now going to be penalized by him for having done so, and not be able to get the SS which would have been available to them had he not acted, because they took R advice and created the side accounts? And all the grampses and grammies are going to have to sell those mortgage free houses before collecting, in the worst housing market in decades?  So only the rich, with their whomping exemptions will have any estates at all to leave to their children because of this means test?Have I got that right?

  •  Well I've always thought that the GOP (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    wonderful world

    was never the party that would end up gutting social security. It's kinda like the issue of the military obviously won't see any Democrat propose deep and needed cuts out of total cowardice, though you will see many Democrats in government call for them. You always hear the GOP raising the specter of privatization or their new buzzword "personalization" and raising the age but when push comes to shove they won't touch it or simply fail miserably (see Bush, 2005).

    It seems to me that the most likely scenario should the day come when SS is gutted, it's gonna come from the Democrats. I hope I'm very much wrong though, but Obama's Deficit Commission is not promising.

    Note that I am not equating the legitimacy of military budget cuts with the legitimacy of social security cuts. There is no equivalence, I'm making the comparison in terms of the politics of the issue.

    "People place their hand on the Bible and swear to uphold the Constitution. They don't put their hand on the Constitution and swear to uphold the Bible."

    by michael1104 on Thu Jul 01, 2010 at 04:15:15 PM PDT

  •  War is more important to them than us. (4+ / 0-)

    I suspected that, but thanks, Boner, for confirming it.

  •  OT... (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    bamajunky, Eric Nelson

    sorry to interrupt your concentration, but did anybody hear Haley Barbour say that "Nobody has more to lose in the oil spill than BP" ?

    I'm a Democrat. That's why!

    by ezdidit on Thu Jul 01, 2010 at 04:20:46 PM PDT

  •  This started out as a funny comment site, but (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    trinite, Utah Simple

    it ended quickly.  Hoyer has been worthless for quite a while.  If we didn't have Pelosi, we'd be in serious trouble.

    I didn't know that Boehner stopped drinking.  I just watched him in an interview today and he sounded dull and drunk.

  •  tea off or beer off? (0+ / 0-)
  •  Boehner- poster child for fall campaign (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    The Truffle, Eric Nelson

    Elect Repugs and raise retirement age to 70 and reduce benefits. That's the GOP platform, their "contract on America.

  •  S.S. has had surplus until this year. (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    Social Security has had a surplus every single year until this year, and if they had saved the money for S.S. instead of spending it on wars and giveaways for corporations, they would have had more than enough to pay for the baby boomers who are now retiring.  It was really against the law to touch the S.S. trust fund, but unfortunately, our politicians cannot be trusted.  It was President Johnson who was first to put his hands on that trust fund.  It was probably used to finance the Vietnam War, and that opened the door for all presidents after Johnson to spend the trust fund for wars and pork.  Maybe we can still put a few of the living presidents who thought this was a good idea in jail?

    What do they want to do now, keep collecting S.S. taxes and spending the money for everything except Social Security?  

  •  Why can't Turd Way just get a third party of .... (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    their own?

  •  Neither. Boehner v Hoyer what's the difference.. (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Utah Simple

    Hoyer has bought the Republican "reality" (meme) that the deficit is of immense importance right this very moment in time..this is wrong IMHO & most credible economists...and this is also the real danger for Democrats...once again losing their voice and allowing Gop crap talk set the "truth of the way things are."

    Tim Ryan has obviously done real physical work.

    "People who work for a living with their hands, who don’t wear ties and suits and nice dresses and jewelry and play golf and hang out don’t have the luxury of an additional five to ten years of back breaking work -- it’s not going to happen."

    There are many more people who actually worked all their lives and will not allow a politician rip Social Security apart...not that will last anyway IMO

    Democrats must not fall for this bullshit. Drop the deficit crap talk and focus on issues of's the only card the Gop has to play, and once again the Democrats are following and not leading...letting the Gop call the issue.

    In review: Fuck the deficit. If the Gop bring it up.. change the subject to something important. Ignore the pandering Republicans.
    Nice work Steve Singiser

    I don't want your country back..I want my country forward - Bill Maher

    by Eric Nelson on Thu Jul 01, 2010 at 04:46:57 PM PDT

  •  Remember Al Gore's lockbox? (0+ / 0-)

    The GOP laughed at it, but it was really a good idea that would have made it impossible for politicians to touch the S.S. surplus.  We can also blame Bill Clinton for not setting aside the surplus when he was finally able to balance the budget.  He kept saying that it could be used to save S.S. when the boomers retired, but he did NOTHING, and when Bush became President, he spent everything in sight giving "incentives" to oil companies and his friends, cutting taxes for the ultra rich, and starting two stupid wars.

  •  I REALLY hope the Dems (0+ / 0-)

    are saving all these sound bites for attack ads.

    Because the knives are out for politicians in general, and the Dems should hold Boehner et al. accountable for this nonsense.

  •  to be honest (0+ / 0-)

    SS IS running broke. It DOES need some fix. And Biden and other Dems have in the past entertained the same idea of raising retirement age. It might be short term fun, but I wouldn't let a good partisan point get in the way of real leadership. If (when?) raising the age is endorsed, even tacitly among Democrats they will look a lot sillier than Boehner.

    •  Running broke? (0+ / 0-)

      You're wrong.  If all the S.S. money had been saved only to be spent on S.S. there would be more than enough to cover the retiring boomers.  In fact, S.S. had a surplus EVERY SINGLE YEAR until this year.  It was President Johnson who decided to put S.S. into the pot with all the other money and let the President spend the surplus on other things, like the Vietnam War.

      Also, anyone with an income that is less than $106,800 pays S.S. taxes on their entire income, but those with incomes over $106,800 stop paying S.S. tax on everything after the $l06,800.  By lifting this to maybe $200,000 or more, the S.S. problem can be fixed.  Realy, to be fair, everyone should pay on all their income.  The way it is now, S.S. is a very regressive tax that is paid at a higher percentage by those with lesser incomes and at a much lesser percentage by the wealthy.  It was Reagan who did this.

      •  IF (0+ / 0-)

        a frog had wings he wouldn't bump his butt. It Is broke. yes, it was spent. By all presidents and parties. It isn't a tax but a trust fund. Making it a true tax on all income would would create another welfare program. It would no longer be an insurance program. There a lot of changes in the 80's- a tax increase (larger withholding), age increase etc. The taxable wage cap has increased each year- I am not sure what you mean by "reagan did it"?

        •  It is a public debt (0+ / 0-)

          that cannot be rescinded without violating the
          Constitution. SS is not even in the same hemisphere as broke.

          •  technically you are correct (0+ / 0-)

            but of course we are talking about politicians. Practically, It Is broke because the country hasn't a dime. Nor does the trust fund itself have any cash (we have IOUs from a source deeply in debt already). Something needs to be done to put its books in balance. Scary part is that it isn't even as bad off as Medicare. I certainly have no illusions that I will ever see a single dime of the all the money I poured into that rat hole.

  •  Pelosi just snuck in an up-or-down vote (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    on the catfood commission recs, so I wouldn't assume she's on your side.

  •  Democrats need to tell everyone the facts. (0+ / 0-)

    It is really easy to fix Social Security, but our politicians are afraid of lobbyists and people with money and power.  They're not afraid of us so-called "average citizens" at all.  This means that they will not do anything to anger anyone they consider rich or "important."  These guys are really cowardly and very disappointing.

    Unfortunately, we have no FDR's among today's politicians.  Even though he sat in a wheel chair, FDR wasn't afraid to anger his rich "friends" who hated S.S. from the day it was started.

  •  With Rahm as COS... (0+ / 0-)

    Anything is possible with this little ballerina...Obama made the "fatal" mistake of letting this guy in....Rahm actually think he's doing something by rushing these water down bills through!

    President Obama needs a new Chief-of-Staff...I heard Rahm was disappointed with the Obama administration ideologue...What's he actually disappointed with is that he reads the paper and people don't like him....





  •  Who are these people (0+ / 0-)

    that think it makes more sense for retirement to be related to lifespan than it does for it to be related to the capability to perform labor? Where does that idea even come from?

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