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If you just looked at the headline (Confidence in Obama reaches new low, Washington Post-ABC News poll finds) you'd get the impression the bottom has fallen out. Not so. But it's the economy, stupid.

Latest WaPo poll (MoE +/- 3.5):

Public confidence in President Obama has hit a new low, according to the latest Washington Post-ABC News poll. Four months before midterm elections that will define the second half of his term, nearly six in 10 voters say they lack faith in the president to make the right decisions for the country, and a clear majority once again disapproves of how he is dealing with the economy.

Note that the "new low" in approval is still 50/47, and there are events from capping the spill to passing financial regulatory reform that might impact these numbers, but the economic performance is still driving negative views.

Some key numbers:

How much confidence do you have in [ITEM] to make the right decisions for the country's future - a great deal of confidence, a good amount, just some or none at all?

7/11/10 - Summary Table

                   -Grt deal/Good amt-   ---- Some/None ----  
                          Great   Good         Just    None      No
                    NET   deal    amt    NET   some   at all   opinion
a. Obama             43     24      19    57     28      29        *
b. The Republicans    
  in Congress        26      8      18    73     43      29        1
c. The Democrats
  in Congress        32     12      20    67     35      32        1

Not an overwhelming stampede to Republicans (but Dems hold the most seats.) And until there's more jobs, who is happy and why would they be?

More from the WaPo:

At the same time, Democrats generally continue to hold the edge over Republicans when it comes to dealing with the nation's fragile economy. But that Democratic lead is slimmer than it was in 2006 before the party won back control of Congress. And among those most likely to vote this year, 39 percent trust the Democrats more and 40 percent the Republicans. About 17 percent of likely voters put their confidence in neither side.

Public opinion is split down the middle on the question of whether the government should spend more money to stimulate the economy in a way that leads to job creation. Among those who support such new spending, 18 percent change their minds when asked what they think if such outlays could sharply increase the budget deficit. In that scenario, 57 percent opposed another round of spending.

Which political party, the (Democrats) or the (Republicans), do you trust to do a better job handling the economy?

                                         
                                                                  Both    Neither     No
               Democrats   Republicans   (vol.)   (vol.)    opinion
7/11/10            42           34           3       17         5
3/26/10            44           36           3       16         1
2/1/08             52           33           2       10         3
12/9/07            51           33           2        9         5
11/1/07            50           35           3        9         4
9/30/07            51           33           2       11         3

The impact on who to vote for is here:

On another subject: Right now, are you inclined to vote to re-elect your representative in Congress in the next election or are you inclined to look around for someone else to vote for?

                                      Depends
             Re-elect   Look around   (vol.)    No opinion
7/11/10  All     25          60           6            8
7/11/10  RV      26          62           6            6
6/6/10   All     29          60           5            6
6/6/10   RV      30          59           5            5
4/25/10  RV      32          57           7            4
2/8/10   RV      37          56           5            3
11/15/09 All     38          50           6            5
5/15/06  RV      37          54           6            3
6/5/05   All     40          50           8            3

(ASKED OF REGISTERED VOTERS) If the election for the U.S. House of Representatives in November were being held today, would you vote for (the Democratic candidate) or (the Republican candidate) in your congressional district? (IF OTHER, NEITHER, DK, REF) Would you lean toward the (Democratic candidate) or toward the (Republican candidate)?

NET LEANED VOTE PREFERENCE

              Dem     Rep     Other    Neither    Will not       No
              cand.   cand.   (vol.)    (vol.)   vote (vol.)   opinion
7/11/10  RV     46      47       *         2           *           5
6/6/10   RV     47      44       2         2           1           4
4/25/10  RV     48      43       1         2           1           6
3/26/10  RV     48      44       1         2           *           4
2/8/10   RV     45      48       *         3           *           4
10/18/09 All    51      39       1         3           2           5
6/15/08  All    52      37       *         2           1           8

The best term for this is "continued erosion". The generic numbers above are better than Feb, but still do not favor Democrats (who typically need to lead by 5 points or so to make up for those who don't show up at the polls.) If you're an incumbent (any incumbent, any party), your seat is not safe. Just saying no isn't a ticket to popularity for Republicans in this poll, and Republicans (and ther lack of public confidence) remain the best thing going for Democrats. Is that enough? Not to prevent seats from being lost. But there'll be some seats Republicans should win that they won't, and there's still no unusual groundswell of angry mobs wiuth pitchforks who demand to vote in an off year election:

ASKED OF REGISTERED VOTERS) I'd like you to rate the chances that you will vote in the Congressional election in November: Are you absolutely certain to vote, will you probably vote, are the chances 50-50, or less than that?

                                                   Don't think  Already
            Certain  Probably  Chances  Less than   will vote   voted     No
            to vote    vote     50/50     50/50       (vol.)    (vol.)   opin.
7/11/10  RV    73        13       11         2           *         NA       *
6/6/10   RV    72        14       11         3           *         NA       0
11/4/06* RV    70        11        7         4           2         5        *
10/22/06 RV    75        14        7         3           *         1        2
*"next week's Congressional election"

Off-years are still low turnout elections, which is why it's still important for Democrats to reach out to their base (and why the "enthusiasm gap" keeps getting written up ad nauseum - as Tom Jenson has pointed out, unenthusiastic votes count as much as enthusiastic ones.) That is, it's important if Democrats want to keep their jobs. Will voters who don't like anyone vote? Who will they vote for? Will a capped well and a rising Dow change minds? Will new voters who showed up for Obama show up in an off-year? Stay tuned.

Originally posted to Daily Kos on Tue Jul 13, 2010 at 07:10 AM PDT.

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Comment Preferences

  •  When I saw this today (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    HeyMikey

    This Machine Kills Fascists

    by aaraujo on Tue Jul 13, 2010 at 07:12:02 AM PDT

    •  The important point is that Americans have much (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      aaraujo, darthstar

      less trust in Republicans.  In a comparison between two parties, the comparison, and not any objective quantification, is all that matters.

      Read Teixeira's 2010 report, and see why the GOP is done.

      by Georgeo57 on Tue Jul 13, 2010 at 07:32:09 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I don't think so. (11+ / 0-)

        The real contest this year is between those who will come to the polls and those who will stay home on Election Day.

        If your reaction to the Republicans is "yuck," but your reaction to Dems is "meh," then you'll stay home. Which means the Republicans will win the turnout battle, and the election.

        "The true strength of our nation comes not from the might of our arms or the scale of our wealth, but from the enduring power of our ideals." - Barack Obama

        by HeyMikey on Tue Jul 13, 2010 at 07:40:39 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  That is what enthusiausm is about. (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          HeyMikey, aaraujo, AgentOfProgress

          If people don't like either, their attitude will be "why bother".  That should frighten everyone on this board.

        •  Many of us will stay home (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Blutodog, pengiep, asdfghjkl

          or wherever we are...as many of us have lost our homes.

          We've lost faith in the Democrats and the President, because it's the economy, but they don't seem to get it with their talk about the deficit instead of stimulus.

          Yet, we won't be voting for Republicans because they are even worse.

          •  Yeah, it's a shame we have to even talk (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            HeyMikey, pengiep

            about the deficit because of the fucking wars and out of control defense spending.

            We are a paranoid schizophrenic society squandering 10s of billions of dollars a month on insane security measures because we're frightened of a few men in robes.

            Un-fucking-believable.

          •  60 votes in Senate? Hello? Do you want it? NT (0+ / 0-)

            "The true strength of our nation comes not from the might of our arms or the scale of our wealth, but from the enduring power of our ideals." - Barack Obama

            by HeyMikey on Tue Jul 13, 2010 at 09:25:53 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          •  Really? (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            askew, soccergrandmom

            If, as you say "many of us stay home," then they will win. And we become serfs in a Feudalistic society where smug, entitled assholes like Lloyd Blankfein are the kings, and the rest of us struggle for scraps.

            I believe that Barack Obama walked into the White House on inauguration day with every intention of doing exactly as he promised during the campaign.  But let's try to remember, Presidents are not Dictators.  They don't have absolute power. And the forces Obama is up against, represented by the GOP and their Corporate lobbyists, are dug in, wealthy, and are using every tactic (legal and illegal) to delay and/or to stop progressive reform in America. And they will play dirty because they know that if Obama's Progressive vision is ever realized in America, the people will never go back, and their 30 (or 60) year pillage is over.

            This is a war for the future of the human race. It's a war between wealthy oligarchs who seek to preserve a system where 1% controls and manipulates the other 99% who are nothing more than consumer cogs in their money machine.

            So the Change we were promised is more complicated then we had hoped. You didn't think the pricks in the Military Industrial Oil Complex would just give up did you?

            So since the alternative is unthinkable...Get off your ass and vote. And stop posting shit like "I'm gonna stay home...waaaaah!"

            •  if this wasn't so serious and if (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              askew, Carbon

              I didn't agree with every syllable of every word you said i would post Monty Python's 'Dennis the Obnoxious Peasant' right now, because that is exactly ho many people are behaving.

              The choice is simple. Stay home or vote republican and enjoy the consequences that Republican control of House and Senate brings you.

              If you think it doesn't matter, better yo do stay home I guess. If you think there is no difference between the two party political philosophies you are either, deaf, dumb and blind or more likely all three.

              It's in the hands of We The people. Grow up and face the music. Politics is NOT a video game.

              •  We've come a long way from the days when Nader... (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                soccergrandmom

                ...used to say that there was no difference between the parties. A very long way indeed.

                Thanks, soccergrandmom!

                •  right, well, he was sure proved wrong. (0+ / 0-)

                  If Democrats allow re pubs to take back their country they will usher in an era of their worst nightmares. That is what I don't' undnertand.

                  All this time, especially after reading Thomas Franks book 'What's the matter With Kansas' I thought it was Republicans who voted AGAINST their own self interests.

                  I couldn't' have been more wrong. Progressives are apparently willing to shoot themselves in both feet just top prove that they are suppressed, oppressed and powerless.

                  What a crock!!!!  As long as i have breath in my body I am NOT going down with them.

        •  Massive Rightie Message Machine (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          pengiep, zizi
          You can find fault with the Dems and Obama, but if they lean your way, voting repub will do nothing but drive you insane with the next congress.

          Part of the problem is that Americans want instant solutions no matter how complex the problems we face.  What does that tell you?

          We are fighting a massive repub media machine with Fox News and total domination of rightie talk radio throughout the whole country. Heck, Washington DC does not even have a progressive talk radio station.

          Unless some rich Dems/progressives or liberals step up and put their money where their mouths are, we will lose much more in November than at first thought.

          I hate to admit it, but the repubs have done an excellent job in taking over the country.  They have taken over the media and the courts. That's all they needed.  

          Disgusted??  I sure am.  I hope those who say Obama and the Dems haven't done all they said they would in less than 2 years, think real hard about how they will be feeling with repub control of congress and Obama in the White House.  All this will do is totally destroy any hope of getting anything done.

          Help us fight!  (I truly believe that race also plays apart in all this too.)

        •  Not necessarily (0+ / 0-)

          if the reaction to Republicans is 'no f***ing way' and the reaction to Dems is 'meh', things change a lot.

          Because I'll take 'meh' over 'NFW' any day of the week, and I'll make sure I get out to vote to stop them from getting anywhere near that seat.

          Don't forget - people may not vote if they don't see much difference, but if they KNOW that one side may do some good and the other will DEFINITELY screw things up, they're going to vote for 'meh' every time.

          People do vote AGAINST somebody and the party they represent at least as much as they vote FOR somebody. Probably more.

      •  The "important point" is NOT ... (0+ / 0-)

        ... "that Americans have much less trust in Republicans".   Oh, I suppose it is if your frame of reference is how many Democrats get elected this year.  But who really gives two poops about that?

        To me the important point IS that there is lack of confidence in EITHER party to know the best government role in economic recovery.   That's important because this has become a psychology-driven recession heading toward a depression.  And what will eventually break it is when private sector decision makers with the potential to gear things up do exactly that -- turn on the spigot for investment and spending to flow.  They are NOT going to do that very often, or very much, when they see no evidence that we have some kind of a logical strategic direction re: the economy.  Oh, and if you are talking more "stimulus" and it looks anything like the nonsense of Stimulus I, you are really going to drive people into the financial bomb shelters.

    •  DON'T BELIEVE THE HYPE... (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      pengiep, icebergslim

      And besides...if Obama's approval is standing at 46 approval and 62 disapproval...They just hightlighted the case. This is why I was so disappointed with DailyKos for not conducting their own polls!

      BESIDES

      BUSH'T TAX CUTS FOR THE RICH ARE ABOUT TO RUN OUT FOR THE RICH AND FAMOUS

      WHY DO WE HAVE TIM KAINE AS HEAD OF THE DNC...

      HE IS NO HOWARD DEAN...RAHM AND DAVID HAD NO BUSINESS REPLACING KAINE WITH DEAN AND OBAMA GAVE HIS STAMP OF APPROVAL...THAT'S WHY HE'S IN THE TANK

      WE NEED FOR HIM TO JUST SPEAK WITH COMMON SENSE...BILL CLINTON IS THE MASTER OF CONNECTING WITH PEOPLE...

    •  But But But (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      askew, mmacdDE

      "Confidence in Obama is at a new low but the poll found that his numbers are still higher than lawmakers of either major party four months ahead of the November congressional elections."

      No one, absolutely no one in Congress or the Executive branch is popular. It's obvious why.

      P.S. Yahoo comments are a hoot. Did you know Obama wasn't a US citizen, and that Sarah Palin will restore America to it's former greatness?

  •  This matters, folks (16+ / 0-)

    We need to encourage Democrats to vote.

    In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice; but in practice, there always is a difference. - Yogi Berra

    by blue aardvark on Tue Jul 13, 2010 at 07:14:43 AM PDT

    •  CONGRESS needs to encourage voters. (8+ / 0-)

      The problem with this year's Dem electoral prospect is not PR. It's substance.

      A majority of people agree with Dems on the issues -- immigration, DADT, climate, the economy. These people aren't excited about voting because the Dems aren't delivering LEGISLATION on those issues.

      This year, good policy is also good politics. In fact, it's the sine qua non of good politics. The Dems need to pass some major legislation before Election Day.

      (I doubt they will.)

      If that means reconciliation (is that available again?) or filibuster reform, so be it.

      "The true strength of our nation comes not from the might of our arms or the scale of our wealth, but from the enduring power of our ideals." - Barack Obama

      by HeyMikey on Tue Jul 13, 2010 at 07:37:44 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Yeah... (7+ / 0-)

        These people aren't excited about voting because the Dems aren't delivering LEGISLATION on those issues.

        And that's exactly the reason the Republicants filibuster the shit out of everything.

        It's also knows as "sabatoge."

        It's better on top.

        by PeakRaider on Tue Jul 13, 2010 at 07:39:16 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Democrats are deeply complicit. (9+ / 0-)

          When you filibuster something that people want, you make yourself vulnerable.  Democrats have not delivered clear and clearly desirable legislation that was dangerous to oppose.

          Bad on them.

          Worse, they have all but pretended that the nation's worst problem, unemployment, doesn't exist or doesn't matter.

          Double bad on them.

          Republicans have been no  better, but have the benefit of not being in charge of the ongoing mess.

          To use a boxing metaphor, Democrats have disdained the effective jab in hopes of landing a long and loopy knockout punch.  The Republicans have ducked and done nothing, waiting for the Ds to wear themselves out.

          Free speech? Yeah, I've heard of that. Have you?

          by dinotrac on Tue Jul 13, 2010 at 07:52:15 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  The repugs are following (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            dinotrac

            the Dems strategy under Bush - it's proven for success.

            The care of human life and happiness, and not their destruction, is the first and only legitimate object of good government. - Thomas Jefferson

            by ctexrep on Tue Jul 13, 2010 at 07:58:16 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  I can't argue with that. I call it the POOP (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              mchestnutjr, ctexrep

              (Party Out Of Power) disease.

              For whatever reason, recent years have seen POOPs that don't want to build for the next election.  They prefer to sit around and simply take their turn.

              Lots of opportunities missed, lots of bad news for the country.

              Free speech? Yeah, I've heard of that. Have you?

              by dinotrac on Tue Jul 13, 2010 at 08:01:25 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

            •  Maybe in your world. (4+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              HeyMikey, dinotrac, orestes1963, asdfghjkl

              From what I recall, Bush got most of what he wanted to the detriment of the country.

              We living the train wreck as we speak. Problem is, aren't fixing the rails the Repugs keep pulling up.

              •  Tell that to my private Social Security account. (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                HeyMikey

                Or to Judge/Justice Estrada.

                Free speech? Yeah, I've heard of that. Have you?

                by dinotrac on Tue Jul 13, 2010 at 08:29:26 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  your taxpayer dollars sent (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  PeakRaider

                  to HalliburtonBlackwaterKBR for Iraq "reconstruction" and Tax Cuts for the SuperRich already told you

                  and the Conservotards larding up every government department from Justice to Interior already told you

                  the decimated Gulf Coast (brought to you by Bush-era regulations) already told you

                  If you haven't got anything nice to say about anybody, come sit next to me. ~ Alice Roosevelt Longworth

                  by CParis on Tue Jul 13, 2010 at 08:51:37 AM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                •  those were the only two things (4+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  HeyMikey, dinotrac, PeakRaider, asdfghjkl

                  President Bush proposed?

                  From what I recall, Bush got most of what he wanted to the detriment of the country.

                  That bolded word still means something, right?

                  "Ultimately, we need to move beyond the tired debates of the left and the right, between business leaders and environmentalists" - President Obama, March 31

                  by justmy2 on Tue Jul 13, 2010 at 09:21:50 AM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  Social Security reform was one of his primary (0+ / 0-)

                    goals, and it never was achieved.

                    Come to think of it -- he wanted to shut down a number of military bases but got rebuffed in Congress in them.

                    I'm sure the list will grow...

                    Free speech? Yeah, I've heard of that. Have you?

                    by dinotrac on Tue Jul 13, 2010 at 11:53:25 AM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

            •  The Dems weren't lockstep obtructionist. (4+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              askew, HeyMikey, KHinSF, orestes1963

              So I don't know what you're talking about.
              Dems voted for lots of W stuff, and even worked on the legislation, like the "Faith-based" stuff (Teddy himself, worked on that).

              W failed to pass his big initiatives: privatizing social security and comprehensive immigration reform.  Dems didn't like the former, and Repubs didn't like the latter.  But there was no obstruction for the sake of obstruction going on.

              •  Those were not his big initiatives...they were (0+ / 0-)

                barely even mentioned during the 2004 campaign...as third rails usually are...

                And as far as I know, he was President between 2001-2005 and plenty of major legislation was passed.

                Democrats didn't obstruct, which made them complicit in those disasters.  Republicans learned the lesson, Democrats failed to react..

                "Ultimately, we need to move beyond the tired debates of the left and the right, between business leaders and environmentalists" - President Obama, March 31

                by justmy2 on Tue Jul 13, 2010 at 09:20:36 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

            •  and they told Democrats they would use it (0+ / 0-)

              but they still did nothing to counteract it...

              it really is disheartening...

              "Ultimately, we need to move beyond the tired debates of the left and the right, between business leaders and environmentalists" - President Obama, March 31

              by justmy2 on Tue Jul 13, 2010 at 09:18:20 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

          •  Reconciliation. Filibuster reform. NT (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            dinotrac

            "The true strength of our nation comes not from the might of our arms or the scale of our wealth, but from the enduring power of our ideals." - Barack Obama

            by HeyMikey on Tue Jul 13, 2010 at 08:08:06 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          •  And while the Democrats go loopy (4+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            HeyMikey, dinotrac, coffejoe, orestes1963

            The nation suffers.

            And if the President, Democratic Party and the Senators were really concerned about the economy, unemployment, and the unemployment extension -- why have we heard so few of them talking about it?  Where's their outrage?  Shouldn't they be fighting mad and fighting filibusters about the starving and homeless unemployed (Ridemybike's diary yesterday)?  

            Instead, it appears that they either don't see the problem or believe that by doing nothing but pointing the finger at the Republicans, they believe they can score election points.

            •  Yeah. People appreciate an honorable fight and (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              HeyMikey

              reward intrepid warriors.

              They also punish those who ignore their pain and suffering.
              Republicans will benefit this November for 2 (and only 2) reasons:

              1. More Democratic incumbents, and
              1. they're not the ones running the show and making the headlines.

              Some consolation for Democrats:

              In the absence of a Newt-type figure, it would take utter disaster for anything like 1994's 54 vote swing to happen.

              Free speech? Yeah, I've heard of that. Have you?

              by dinotrac on Tue Jul 13, 2010 at 08:22:22 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

            •  Congress is corrupt. (0+ / 0-)

              Corrupt and there's plenty of proof.

              Unemployed people don't matter to the corrupt.

            •  Democrats (the Party) need to go (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              HeyMikey

              on the offensive more. Much more. If they are trying to get their message out on why to vote Dem vs Rethug, it's being drowned out. They don't seem to be trying that hard.
              I'd like to see and hear more passion/agression/leadership from the Dems.
              They need to show something to motivate people.

      •  I think they can propose good legislation (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        mmacdDE

        It is much harder to actually pass it, as the past 18 months have clearly demonstrated.

        There are 3 political parties - liberal Dem, moderate Dem, and conservative GOP. The number of remaining moderate GOP can hold their annual convention in a matchbox and have room for half the matches.

        The GOP is determined to not let anything pass at all. The debate is between liberal and moderate Dem.

        Unfortunately, the public doesn't understand this. And THAT is a PR problem.

        In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice; but in practice, there always is a difference. - Yogi Berra

        by blue aardvark on Tue Jul 13, 2010 at 07:43:33 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  WAPO (6+ / 0-)

        found no gap in voter enthusiasm:
        72% of Registered Democrats said they were enthusiastic about voting. 73% of Registered Republicans said the same thing.

        The bitter truth of deep inequality has been disguised by an era of cheap imported goods and the anyone-can-make-it celebrity myth - Polly Toynbee

        by fladem on Tue Jul 13, 2010 at 07:50:29 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  GOOD...IT'S MORE OF US THAN THEM!!!! (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          majcmb1
        •  Likely voters include independents, and they are (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          fladem, HeyMikey, LV Pol Girl

          breaking the wrong way for Democrats.

          Free speech? Yeah, I've heard of that. Have you?

          by dinotrac on Tue Jul 13, 2010 at 07:53:31 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  That is the problem - (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            CParis, LV Pol Girl, dinotrac

            it is independents.  But the Democrats aren't delivering so I won't for them refrain is at odds with this poll.

            The bitter truth of deep inequality has been disguised by an era of cheap imported goods and the anyone-can-make-it celebrity myth - Polly Toynbee

            by fladem on Tue Jul 13, 2010 at 07:56:24 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Yup. And I'm completely puzzled by it. (0+ / 0-)

              If there is one thing I would expect Democrats to do -- one thing that history suggests that Democrats care deeply about -- it's getting people back to work.

              New crowd, I guess.

              Free speech? Yeah, I've heard of that. Have you?

              by dinotrac on Tue Jul 13, 2010 at 07:58:39 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  how? (3+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                PsychoSavannah, LV Pol Girl, dinotrac

                you can only pump so much government money into job creation.  The private sector has to take over at some point.

                •  It starts with paying attention and setting (3+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  Pescadero Bill, justmy2, CParis

                  priorities.

                  Oh -- and not dumping $900 billion that you will never be able to get again on your pet special interests and calling it a stimulus that it isn't.

                  Or lavishing money on Wall Street and financial institutions with no strings attached.

                  And -- lots of things don't cost money. Sometimes building a psychology of trust can go a long way -- especially when you need investors to part with their money to get the economy rolling along.

                  As it is, the administration seems not to care about unemployed people.

                  Free speech? Yeah, I've heard of that. Have you?

                  by dinotrac on Tue Jul 13, 2010 at 08:06:31 AM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                •  that worked great for the Japanese... (0+ / 0-)

                  The private sector doesn't HAVE to do anything.  

                  Here is a thought.  Let's try economic policies that have been proven failures and try the ones that have worked?

                  "Ultimately, we need to move beyond the tired debates of the left and the right, between business leaders and environmentalists" - President Obama, March 31

                  by justmy2 on Tue Jul 13, 2010 at 09:24:03 AM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                •  You want to pump money into job creation (2+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  pengiep, dinotrac

                  lend it to small businesses - directly, straight from the govt. No bank in the middle.

                  Lower interest rate, and the govt has plenty of ways to ensure that the money is almost always paid back.

                  And WE make the money from the interest, as well as taxes from the business if it succeeds/grows, AND taxes from the income everybody makes.

                  Small businesses are less likely to ship the new jobs overseas, too. And you could even require that they don't, to get the loans in the first place.

                  We win and win and win.

              •  Support for more stimulus (0+ / 0-)

                is split 48-48, fwiw.

                The bitter truth of deep inequality has been disguised by an era of cheap imported goods and the anyone-can-make-it celebrity myth - Polly Toynbee

                by fladem on Tue Jul 13, 2010 at 08:02:50 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  that's a key point as well (3+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  askew, HeyMikey, dinotrac

                  worry about the defict, fair or not, is real and ouh there in the electorate. Keynesian economics is not popular.

                  "Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies." - Groucho Marx

                  by Greg Dworkin on Tue Jul 13, 2010 at 08:26:59 AM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  They did not (2+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    HeyMikey, dinotrac

                    split out that number for independents.

                    I can't think of a more important cross-tab.

                    The bitter truth of deep inequality has been disguised by an era of cheap imported goods and the anyone-can-make-it celebrity myth - Polly Toynbee

                    by fladem on Tue Jul 13, 2010 at 08:37:46 AM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  I am hoping for more internals (0+ / 0-)

                      in their Behind the Numbers column. The Post sometimes saves the good stuff for there.

                      "Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies." - Groucho Marx

                      by Greg Dworkin on Tue Jul 13, 2010 at 08:38:58 AM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                    •  here 'tis (0+ / 0-)

                      "Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies." - Groucho Marx

                      by Greg Dworkin on Tue Jul 13, 2010 at 04:33:50 PM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                    •  more.... (0+ / 0-)

                      It's interesting that Obama's flagging numbers on the economy have been driven not by white Republicans or white Independents but rather by white Democrats.

                      Since April, white Democratic approval of Obama's handling of the economy is down 20 points, from 80 percent to 60 percent. And, nearly as many white Democrats now strongly disapprove of how he's dealing with the issue as those who strongly approve (25 strongly disapprove; 28 strongly approve).

                      (Huge thank you to Post polling director Jon Cohen for crunching the numbers!)

                      http://voices.washingtonpost.com/...

                      "Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies." - Groucho Marx

                      by Greg Dworkin on Wed Jul 14, 2010 at 10:20:12 AM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                  •  And whose fault is that? (3+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    HeyMikey, pengiep, dinotrac

                    Democrats did nothing to set the table to Keynesian policies, tried to split the baby when implementing half hearted attempts out of an unwise attempt at bipartisanship, and then wonder why the policies are not popular...

                    "Ultimately, we need to move beyond the tired debates of the left and the right, between business leaders and environmentalists" - President Obama, March 31

                    by justmy2 on Tue Jul 13, 2010 at 09:26:03 AM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

            •  How so? Poll was of registered Dems & Repubs. (0+ / 0-)

              Not independents.

              At least, according to your comment.

              "The true strength of our nation comes not from the might of our arms or the scale of our wealth, but from the enduring power of our ideals." - Barack Obama

              by HeyMikey on Tue Jul 13, 2010 at 08:06:33 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  All polls include incumbents (0+ / 0-)

                they didn't break out voter enthusiasm for independents.

                The bitter truth of deep inequality has been disguised by an era of cheap imported goods and the anyone-can-make-it celebrity myth - Polly Toynbee

                by fladem on Tue Jul 13, 2010 at 08:14:17 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  Voters, not candidates, polled. (0+ / 0-)

                  "Registered Democrats" and "registered Republicans" refers to the voters, not the candidates. Thus independent voters apparently were not polled.

                  From what I can tell from your comments. Still no link?

                  "The true strength of our nation comes not from the might of our arms or the scale of our wealth, but from the enduring power of our ideals." - Barack Obama

                  by HeyMikey on Tue Jul 13, 2010 at 08:25:00 AM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  Thanks for link! Still problem lurking. (0+ / 0-)
                    1. (ASKED OF REGISTERED VOTERS) How enthusiastic are you about voting for the (Democrat/Republican) in your Congressional district this year - very enthusiastic, fairly enthusiastic, not too enthusiastic, or not enthusiastic at all?

                    7/11/10 Summary Table - Leaned Dem/Rep Supporters

                                   --- Enthusiastic --    ---- Not Enthusiastic ----      No
                                   NET   Very   Fairly    NET   Not too   Not at all     opin.
                    a. Democrat     72     28      43      27       20          7           1
                    b. Republican   73     30      43      26       19          7           1

                    Apparently this captured registered independents, in states where you can register as an independent. I'm still worried about the unregistered. Key to Dem victory in 2006 & especially 2008 was driving up turnout among those who usually don't vote.

                    "The true strength of our nation comes not from the might of our arms or the scale of our wealth, but from the enduring power of our ideals." - Barack Obama

                    by HeyMikey on Tue Jul 13, 2010 at 08:34:20 AM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

          •  Independent voters are fickle (0+ / 0-)

            This group of voters don't know their ass from their heads! This is why we say  WE NEED A THIRD PARTY...INDEPENDENTS ARE UNRELIABLE AND NO PARTY SHOULD COUNT ON THEM...ALSO...Don't forget most of the Independent voters are disenfranchised Republicans...So no surprise there!

            If we could rile up our base enough...We could off-set those independent voters who mostly sit in the southern states

        •  Link, please? Gallup says otherwise. (0+ / 0-)

          That's good news. I hope it holds up till November. But Gallup said the opposite in late June:
          http://www.dailykos.com/...

          "The true strength of our nation comes not from the might of our arms or the scale of our wealth, but from the enduring power of our ideals." - Barack Obama

          by HeyMikey on Tue Jul 13, 2010 at 08:05:04 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  It is in the link to the poll (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            askew, HeyMikey

            http://www.washingtonpost.com/...

            Question 19.

            Here is what is interesting: both the GOP and Dems are less enthusiastic as they were in '06, though the '06 numbers were taken closer to the election.

            I don't think much of Gallup.

            The bitter truth of deep inequality has been disguised by an era of cheap imported goods and the anyone-can-make-it celebrity myth - Polly Toynbee

            by fladem on Tue Jul 13, 2010 at 08:08:20 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  gallup is good for their consistent (0+ / 0-)

              within poll comparisons, but rven without nate's rankings, ABC/WaPo and NBC/WSJ along with Pew are more respected. CBS/NYT lags behind a bit.

              "Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies." - Groucho Marx

              by Greg Dworkin on Tue Jul 13, 2010 at 08:25:46 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  Gallup's voter screen (2+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                askew, HeyMikey

                is awful.  I wrote about that in 2008 when they came out with their McCain plus 10 poll.  Their toplines have struggled for years, and show far more volatility than other polls.

                It is worth comparing how ABC measures voter enthusiasm versus Gallup.  Gallup asks for the voter to compare their enthusiasm against other years, while ABC just asks how enthusiastic they are.

                When you think about Gallup's wording is odd.  Of course Democrats aren't going to be as enthusiastic as they were in 2008.  But does that mean they are less likely to vote?

                Here is the iink to the post on Gallup in '08.
                http://openleft.com/...

                The bitter truth of deep inequality has been disguised by an era of cheap imported goods and the anyone-can-make-it celebrity myth - Polly Toynbee

                by fladem on Tue Jul 13, 2010 at 08:35:17 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

      •  The opposition party can say (0+ / 0-)

        the other side is worse...the in power party has to show results...and significant ones..incremental results do not stop a landslide...

        But it is basically too late.  The stimulus decision baked the cake.  It was either going to work, or it wasn't.  Stopping the slide does not equate to peoples perception of the word "stimulus".

        Well, the chickens are coming home to roost.  This may all work out, but it likely be too late for this years election.

        "Ultimately, we need to move beyond the tired debates of the left and the right, between business leaders and environmentalists" - President Obama, March 31

        by justmy2 on Tue Jul 13, 2010 at 09:16:42 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  We need to elect some democrats than we can (0+ / 0-)

      support 'em.

    •  Unless Obama starts acting on behalf of the (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      orestes1963, asdfghjkl

      people, he is done.  People are alert, they are in trouble and they put Obama in office to "change" things.  What's more, he will take many Democrats in the House and Senate with him.  

      You can say that Obama ran as a centrist, but he made sure his speeches touched the more progressive, the populists and the people who need help in this country.

      He sold HOPE as what he brought to office.  Once elected, he has demonstrated that he is strictly a corporate kind of guy.  Every move has helped to pour more money into the pockets of the very richest among us.

      You can cite some of his "accomplishments" but they pale in comparison to what he has given away to the corporations and to the Republican Party. To say he has been an extention of the Bush administration would be accurate on so many levels.

      It is almost as if his first two years are actually designed to give power back to the Republicans so Harry and Nancy won't have to make excuses for why they can't get anything done.

      That is the problem.  The perception is the reality.

      •  anyone (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        fladem, askew

        who says Obama is a corporatist is blind. Or has already forgotten Bush.

        •  Sorry, I see what I see. (1+ / 1-)
          Recommended by:
          asdfghjkl
          Hidden by:
          blue aardvark

          In every instant since his inaugeration(funded by Wall Street) he has positioned himself to give crumbs to the people and fat checks to the corporations.

          If he isn't a corporatist, one wouldn't know that by his actions.

          •  Obama called out the SCOTUS to its face on live (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            askew, blue aardvark

            national TV, the only president to do so on any issue, over the Citizens United case, the very test case for so-called "coporatism" (as misdefined by dkos), and the left still labels Obama a "corporatist" (as misdefined by dkos).  Why would a so-called "corporatist" call out the SCOTUS to its face on live national tv for a pro-corporatist SCOTUS decision?  Give me a break.

            •  Simple (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              importer

              Because as much of a bunch of corporatist ass kissers the Democrats have become, the complete irresponsibility of the GOP in service to their corporate masters gauranties that the GOP will be the financial benificiary of corporate campaign monies.  

              THat's primarily what most of the elected Democrats don't like about the decision.

            •  That's not much of a rebuttal (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              asdfghjkl

              Obama has demonstrated that he is quick with the words, but doesn't follow through with action (see HIR).  If your argument that he is not a corporatist hangs on that one comment, in the face of meaningless credit card reform, HIR which created a captured market for the ins. cos., lack of leadership on banking reform, etc., it is not a winning one.  

            •  It's lip service, has any action been taken (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              orestes1963

              or any legislation BACKED BY OBAMA been recommended to overcome the damage?

              Will he nominate a Supreme Court Justice that isn't safely middle of the road?  Will he change the balance on the court, given the chance?  I doubt it, they may not be from the Federalist Society, but his two nominations to date have not been head-spinners by any stretch of the imagination.

              Talk is still cheap, and getting cheaper.

        •  Neoliberal. (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          importer, justmy2, CParis

          Give money to the banks in a hope they trickle it down rather then injecting it right in to Main Street via government loans.

          He's a Chicago School Neoliberal Friedman-ite.

          •  When this whole financial disaster hit, my (0+ / 0-)

            suggestion was to bypass Wall Street and shore up the state and regional banks.

            I think every state is going to have to go it alone, they are set-up to fail right now.  I would like more of them to explore the state bank example of North Dakota to protect their pensions and get the most bang for their bucks, a state bank makes sense.

            Trickle Down is really trickle on - in the form of piss on us.....  

        •  Obama is CLEARLY a corporatist (5+ / 0-)

          the fact that Bush may have been a much more unapolagetic corporatist does not absolve Obama.  Offshore drilling, no public option at corporations insistence, weak tea FinReg to appease Wall Street, continuing Bush's trillion dollar welfare for corporations and Wall St bankers,

          Rahm, Summers, Geithner.  Corporatists one and all appointed on and relied upon by Obama.

        •  I guess I imagined when he fought for McCaskill's (0+ / 0-)

          bill to limit corporate bonuses for bailed out firms, or ended to big to fail, or gave oil companies free reign and promoted additional offshore drilling, etc, etc, etc.  

          Bush as a comparison is like using Michael Savage as the comparison point for rw talk radio radicalism.  Talk about low expectations.

          "Ultimately, we need to move beyond the tired debates of the left and the right, between business leaders and environmentalists" - President Obama, March 31

          by justmy2 on Tue Jul 13, 2010 at 09:29:15 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

  •  Nobody to blame but themselves... (15+ / 0-)

    They accepted the need for 60 votes in the Senate, when the GOP only ever needed 51 which made the huge majority useless. If they can't get anything done with 59 Senators what's the point of working to keep them?

    They accepted the GOP abuse of rules and it will cost them dearly. It will probably cost them the House, which is a shame since the House actually got shit done.  It was the G-D Senate who broke the government.

    Politics is like playing Asteroids - You go far enough to the left and you end up on the right. Or vice-versa.

    by Jonze on Tue Jul 13, 2010 at 07:15:39 AM PDT

    •  The GOP rolled the Democrats and Obama. (9+ / 0-)

      The continued whine and cheese danced, which we continued to participate in.

      •  Don't judge Democrats too soon. (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        askew, mmacdDE, breathe67

        Be however surprised you need to be when we win Senate seats in November, and then watch how President Obama and the Democrats both pass major legislation and give Republicans bigger shovels for their deeper holes as we move into the 2012 election.

        Read Teixeira's 2010 report, and see why the GOP is done.

        by Georgeo57 on Tue Jul 13, 2010 at 07:36:23 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  My powder is dry, (4+ / 0-)

          but if these numbers are like this end of August and into September, we have major problems.  And this is mid-July, the time is passing us by.

          •  People can change their (0+ / 0-)

            minds on a dime. Overnight, polls can change. 2 months ago, we all 'knew' Reid was going to lose. Now? Not so much. Hell, we might even win in KY, and who knows what the hell is going to happen in AZ.

            It is way, way, WAY too early to try to predict anything. We are the ONLY people even paying attention. Everybody else is too busy - it's the summer, school is out, kids are home, the weather is nice (sometimes/places)...

            See what it's like the end of September. 6-8 weeks out. That's when people will start paying attention.

            And a LOT can happen in the meantime.

      •  And Obama and Dems don't even know it yet. (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        icebergslim

        Or, more correctly, as we see on DKOS, won't admit it yet. Like this diarist there is a lot of "polls are wrong" and "if you spin it backwards is says 'Dems win'" and other tin foil hat optimism.

        The question for liberal and progressive Democrats is what do with the extreme right GOP Congress that will have been created by the political incompetence of "moderate" "bipartisan" Democrats lead by Obama.

        All the problems US had when Obama came into office remain unresolved, all have gotten worse including the economy which is in a slowdown inside a recession.

        How can we reform political system. Only hope I see is for the remaining progressive Democrats in Senate, the 40 who signed on the "public option" during the health care debate can join with 20 of the new GOP majority Senators to kill the filibuster. It will not help over next two years of GOP majority Congress rule but if the upcoming two years of GOP majority, the extremist GOP is as inept as Democratic majority and they get tossed in 2014, then US can address it's problems in two years.

    •  No big problem. We HAVE to act on climate change (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Pescadero Bill, PeakRaider

      So we HAVE to kill the filibuster, and then we HAVE to kill the Republican Party so that it can never again take control of the House. Imperatives simplify decision-making.

      Read Teixeira's 2010 report, and see why the GOP is done.

      by Georgeo57 on Tue Jul 13, 2010 at 07:34:00 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Really? (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      PsychoSavannah, jalenth, PeakRaider

      "It will cost them dearly"

      How about it will cost us dearly.

      Some folks here probably want Dems to loose so they can say "i told you so". Which is sad really.

      Folks need to wake up, the alternative to the Dems is the GOP period. There is no progressive Party or a perfect scenario. It either what we have now or Boehner as the frigging Speaker of the house.

  •  I hope we stay busy (6+ / 0-)

    building enthusiasm.  A Republican Congress will be the end of us as a 21st Century player.

    I am, at heart, an optimist, which I consider to be spiritually necessary and proper, as well as intellectually suspect.

    by I love OCD on Tue Jul 13, 2010 at 07:18:00 AM PDT

    •  When voters realize that more Republicans in (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      mmacdDE, I love OCD

      Congress threatens their jobs, homes, and savings, they will vote Democrat not from any altruism, but from pure self-interest.

      Read Teixeira's 2010 report, and see why the GOP is done.

      by Georgeo57 on Tue Jul 13, 2010 at 07:37:32 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Like they have before? (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        jalenth

        The public is generally stupid and easily swayed by slogans and propaganda.  The GOP knows this and capitalizes on it, while the Democrats live in denial.

        We live in a crumbling bread and circus empire.  The public doesn't do policy.  They do slogans.

        It's better on top.

        by PeakRaider on Tue Jul 13, 2010 at 07:41:56 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Not when they're (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          mmacdDE

          broke and terrified.  It's all great when they're borrowing against their manipulated housing values and buying the newest shiny toys.  Not so much when they don't know what's for dinner tomorrow.

          2 years ago I doubt you could have found an economist who would believe that Americans would cut back on deficit spending.  None of them would have imagined an upsurge in savings, and in cash purchases.  The Republicans made a huge mistake allowing the crash to happen on Bush's watch.  No matter how hard they spin it, everyone but the Tea Party cohort is aware of the culprit here, and seeing Republicans fight financial regulation is all to the good.

          I am, at heart, an optimist, which I consider to be spiritually necessary and proper, as well as intellectually suspect.

          by I love OCD on Tue Jul 13, 2010 at 07:59:38 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  On the other hand, when people are broke (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            PeakRaider

            and terrified, sometimes they act irrationally. Look at that election in Massachusetts. Any one that says they'll take on the system and change it stands a chance. And I'm thinking that will be a big part of what we'll see - an influx of both left and right 'new blood', but not really changing the power structure.

            The left of the left-wing are looking for representation, and the tea-baggers of the right-wing are looking for representation.

            Could be quite the contentious 112th(?) Congress.

  •  Dems better be ready to expose the GOP votes... (4+ / 0-)

    Gear all of their campaigns against the GOP obstructionism, show with vote roll calls how the GOP voted against anything and everything the Dems tried to help the economy and jobs. That's their only chance and they need to hope the public will buy it.  

    Politics is like playing Asteroids - You go far enough to the left and you end up on the right. Or vice-versa.

    by Jonze on Tue Jul 13, 2010 at 07:18:06 AM PDT

    •  The public....57% of whom don't want more (7+ / 0-)

      spending for jobs.  OK, public, where will these magical jobs come from then?  Everybody's just pissed.  Is there a single popular politician in this country right now?

      •  GOP and their corporate media framing (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Pescadero Bill, Fury

        again wins the day, all respected economists be damned.

        I'm to the point where I think we should just trash the representative (har har) electoral system and just appoint experts in relevant fields to deal with the problems.  Our problems are too big for our politics.  These craven, clueless politicians and their corporate benefactors are going to destroy this country.  If they haven't already...which may be the case.

        It's better on top.

        by PeakRaider on Tue Jul 13, 2010 at 07:44:52 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  That's the game plan. But don't expect it to be (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      mmacdDE, PeakRaider

      rolled out until after Labor Day.  It's an unnecessary waste of resources, and in this case it would also be sadistic, to motivate our base with a powerful dose of reality so soon before their action at the polls is needed.

      Read Teixeira's 2010 report, and see why the GOP is done.

      by Georgeo57 on Tue Jul 13, 2010 at 07:40:05 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Exactly right (0+ / 0-)

        why the hell do so many here think we're just like the average voter?

        We're FAR from average. The average voter was way more worried about where LeBron James will be playing next year than about who's running in the election this fall.

        You might, MIGHT get their attention after the middle of September. MIGHT.

        But now? Totally wasted effort.

        Do the CANDIDATES need to get busy? Of course. So does their staff, and their main campaign workers. They need to line up ad buys, and put together ads, and book locations for rallies, and develop literature... THEY have a lot of work to do BEFORE they need lots of volunteers to help GOTV.

    •  HA HA HA (0+ / 0-)

      Dems better be ready to expose the GOP votes..

      I doubt it...and even then, it is kind of late.  People won't buy it.  That is why it was so important to put on a show in real time.  But Democrats don't like optics...they think people will just figure it out.

      It won't work.  Democratic Disaster Messaging is an unmitigated failure.

      "Ultimately, we need to move beyond the tired debates of the left and the right, between business leaders and environmentalists" - President Obama, March 31

      by justmy2 on Tue Jul 13, 2010 at 09:36:22 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Late? (0+ / 0-)

        It's not late - the bulk of the country isn't even paying attention right now. Putting out all kinds of ads/press/etc. now is really a waste of money.

        Prepare - sure, they need to prepare. But showing stuff to the general public? Way, way too soon.

        Besides, the more you prepare and have ready to go later, the less time you give the GOP to rebut it.

        We all know they can't think very well on their feet, or do anything but parrot talking points.

        If you don't give their pundits time to get the talking points together, they just stand there spouting even more ridiculous garbage than they normally do.

  •  One minor correction (0+ / 0-)

    I believe that WaPo stated that the 'new low' was in the confidence to make the right decision, not in the approval nos.   In that case, it was a new low of 43/57.

  •  GLOOM AND DOOM AHHHHh!!! (14+ / 0-)

    i like how obama still has a 50% approval rating, yet the press makes it sound like he's at 30%.

    also democrats have a 45%-34% advantage on who the public trusts on the economy.

  •  This also confirms the inaccuracy of some (10+ / 0-)

    polls.

    The last question: 73% of RV's say they are "certain to vote".

    Right.

    When was the last time that 73% of registered voters in your precinct voted in a midterm congressional election? Never happened in mine, I don't think.

    So, while I am concerned - very concerned - about the Democratic "enthusiasm gap", poll respondents are notoriously inaccurate about their feelings or intentions.

    "Bernie Madoff's mistake was stealing from the rich. If he'd stolen from the poor he'd have a cabinet position." -OPOL

    by blue in NC on Tue Jul 13, 2010 at 07:21:36 AM PDT

    •  Enthusiasm is probably not the greatest motivator (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      mmacdDE

      for this very uncommon election (the worst economic numbers since the Great Depression).  A better metric for voter turnout would be how strongly voters feel that getting to the polls this November is very important to their keeping their jobs, homes, and life savings during the upcoming years.  

      That measure would likely show Democrats vastly out-voting Republicans.

      Read Teixeira's 2010 report, and see why the GOP is done.

      by Georgeo57 on Tue Jul 13, 2010 at 07:46:45 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  You have to take into consideration (0+ / 0-)

      that a lot of previously registered Republicans have changed their registrations.

      So that number might not be too far off - but there are less of them than there used to be.

      The ones that are left are crazier, though.

  •  not good could be worse (8+ / 0-)

    and people will focus more in late September and early October.  Which gives the White House and Dems in Congress time to find backbone for a big popular push, which the Republicans will fight to the death.  Properly planned, it could be Republican electoral death.   Get the votes of sitting members voting against things people want, like jobs and play it in ads, it might work.

    Republicans want to  give rich people on Wall Street more money.   So they can gamble the rest of your money away.   Republicans don't think you're poor enough, no housing market for your house, no money in your 401K, now they want your social security and medicare money.  Money you pay in every paycheck for your old age.  But Wall Street needs it more than you do according to the Republicans.

  •  Didn't read - tables are unreadable (0+ / 0-)

    Don't you guys have a template or something?

    See the losers in the best bars, meet the winners in the dives -Neil Young

    by danoland on Tue Jul 13, 2010 at 07:23:00 AM PDT

  •  It would help if (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    PeakRaider

    people in power who think that wingnutty comments are what they are would actually hold commenters' smelly feet to the flame.

    "Half of the American people never read a newspaper. Half never vote for President. One hopes it is the same half." - Gore Vidal

    by sapper on Tue Jul 13, 2010 at 07:23:29 AM PDT

  •  Fiorina 47%, Boxer 45% (5+ / 0-)

    Sorry about the bad news, guys. I wish I could bring you a Feingold-falls-behind poll but there isn't one yet. http://www.surveyusa.com/...

  •  "Look Around" is a plus for Obama (4+ / 0-)

    If voters do actually look at who the Republicans send down the pike voters will most likely run to Obama, screaming in abject horror.

    Here we are now Entertain us I feel stupid and contagious

    by Scarce on Tue Jul 13, 2010 at 07:29:40 AM PDT

  •  Again, no job creation... (10+ / 0-)

    what does the White House expect?  Attempting to kill unemployment?  Where is the sense of urgency from D.C., while families are struggling?  Say what you want, but this is under Democratic rule, period.  No one should go home for a fucking whole month if the unemployment extension is not granted.  Lastly, the communication and political team in the WH should be fucking FIRED.  They have continued to drop the ball and don't have their hand on the pulse of the anger out here.  And some are who voted Obama and the Democrats.  November's core is about this economy, the other stuff thrown on top, including the oil spill, but the economy.  And that health care law that was supposed to catapult us in November?  A major bust out here.

    •  Just waiting for your blast aimed at the WH (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      askew, Escamillo

      New it wouldnt take long...

      Our discontent can only be held in check by perfection.

      by A Runner on Tue Jul 13, 2010 at 07:32:15 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Again, everyone around here (4+ / 0-)

        act like Obama is not head of the Democratic Party when he is.  And no one can argue that the communication and framing from the WH has been horrendous.  We should not be in this position, NOW.  WE should have been blaming all this SHIT on Bush Co., from DAY ONE to now.  Where is that at?  This is Bush Co. fault, yet crickets.

        •  I can argue against those points. President (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          askew

          Obama passed historic health care reform.  He's about to pass the most sweeping financial regulations since the Great Depression.  Sounds like effective messaging to me.  You very rightly want him to offer much stronger messaging, but that will have to wait until after the August recess.

          Read Teixeira's 2010 report, and see why the GOP is done.

          by Georgeo57 on Tue Jul 13, 2010 at 08:05:16 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Hmm...The President disagrees with you... (0+ / 0-)

            OBAMA: Today, after almost a century of trying, today, after over a year of debate, today, after all the votes have been tallied, health insurance reform becomes law in the United States of America.

            But if it makes you feel better, feel free to continue should health care reform was passed from the rooftop.

            "Ultimately, we need to move beyond the tired debates of the left and the right, between business leaders and environmentalists" - President Obama, March 31

            by justmy2 on Tue Jul 13, 2010 at 09:55:46 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

        •  I'd say DKOS split 50/50 on Obama's failure. (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Blutodog, icebergslim, orestes1963

          Failure that you state clearly above.  The split on DKOS seems clear from diaries and comments.  Even the main page of DKOS has been more and more asking "What clothes".

          If DKOS, made up of liberal Democrats, is split on Obama it dovetails with the poll results that public has had it with what Truman would call "the do nothing Democratic Congress" and president.

          Truman is the model Obama should have followed from day one. Congress is essentially a GOP Congress with a Democratic frosting.  Obama should have treated it as a GOP Congress and battered it with liberal progressive reform after liberal progressive reform bill. Truman's successful strategy when faced with a do-nothing-Congress. Obama, like Truman, could then have said "See I need more liberal progressives in Congress".

          And who knows, had Obama actually proposed and fought for stimulus, health care reform,  unemployment, Wall Street reform, climate/energy reform, we might have gotten some incremental change and a public who felt Obama understood problems, fought for right solution and got as much as he could.

          DKOS is split on that view and the public is decidedly anti-Obama and anti-Democrat at this point.

      •  icebergslim's just the messenger. (4+ / 0-)

        .
         I don't see anything in the content of i'slim's Comment that's either untrue or unwarranted.

        .

        "I have to go now. I feel . . . sticky." Anthony Bourdain

        by BenGoshi on Tue Jul 13, 2010 at 07:43:41 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  um (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Mistral Wind

      since when was the White House "attempting to kill unemployment"?

      •  I think icebergslim's position is . . . (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        icebergslim

        .

        . . . res ipsa loquitur:  the thing speaks for itself.  That by not pulling out every stop, every trick, every threat, etc. in the book to the Senate to get the extension to Unempl Benefits done, the White House has, basically, punted the issue and is just leaving it to the Senate to work it out, or not, as it sees fit to do, or not. And that that is tantamount to killing it.

        Maybe the analysis and opinion is incorrect, is flawed.  But it's a reasonable one, seems to me.

        .

        "I have to go now. I feel . . . sticky." Anthony Bourdain

        by BenGoshi on Tue Jul 13, 2010 at 07:47:50 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Amazing how we got so used to the (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          mmacdDE, Escamillo

          idea of the "unitary executive" after 8 years of a president overstepping his constitutional limits.

          The ONLY weapon Obama really has is a threat for the DOJ to start investigating congresscritters if they don't get in line.  It's sleazy and I don't think many would like him to do that.

          Other than that, laws are made by Congress.  End of discussion.

          •  Oh, Gawd, no it's not. (6+ / 0-)

            .  

             You think LBJ used threats of DOJ investigations to get legislation passed?  

             No, no, no, no, no, no, no, I'm not talking about unitary executive shit.  How old are you?  Don't you know the power of Presidents to threaten, cajole, incentivize, horse-trade, browbeat, praise, help, hurt, assist, screw-over goes well beyond (and, in fact, does not include) that kind of thing you're talking about?  Good God.

            .

            "I have to go now. I feel . . . sticky." Anthony Bourdain

            by BenGoshi on Tue Jul 13, 2010 at 08:49:07 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  It is their legacy on the line after all. (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              BenGoshi

              Laws passed and actions taken by Congress (or lack there of) during a president's term are directly linked to them.

            •  Every single one of which we screamed (0+ / 0-)

              about when Ronald Reagan and George Walker Bush used them.

              It's different now that a dem is in office and you like the laws being contemplated?

              Congress makes the laws, supposedly at the behest of its constituents.

              The Executive upholds the laws.

              The Supreme Court interprets the laws.

              Our whole system of government has become so bastardized and corrupt that people don't even know how it's supposed to work anymore.

              •  So then you must agree that (2+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                BenGoshi, justmy2

                Obama deserves no credit for any legislative achievements during his presidency, since he does not make laws.  So, the only successes available to Obama are in the faithful execution of the law?  So, we should judge Obama by his handling of the wars, oil spill.  Under your view, what are his achievements?

                •  This canard of The Impotent President... (2+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  justmy2, orestes1963

                  .
                   . . . got trotted out and walked around right about this time last year:  when Obama ceded the whole Health Care Reform initiative to the likes of Max "Vichy Dem" Baucus and Harry "Milquetoast" Reid.  It was not until the President got personally involved in the whole process, in, what, February?!, that the momentum shifted in the direction of getting something, anything, passed.

                  But this thing remains:  the President just has no power.  Leave the President aloooonnnne.  Gad.

                  I'm glad President Obama has thicker skin than many of his supporters.  I'll give him that.

                  .

                  "I have to go now. I feel . . . sticky." Anthony Bourdain

                  by BenGoshi on Tue Jul 13, 2010 at 09:56:59 AM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  I remember full well (2+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    BenGoshi, wsexson

                    I don't expect a response from the poster because the argument is so intellectually bankrupt that its proponents usually spit it out and then run for cover.  I have never seen any who posit this foolish notion of the impotent president exercise consistency in their view.  It is merely one of the cheap excuses for inaction that the intellectually challenged proffer to the community.  I like calling them out on it in the hope that it will eventually result in some intellectual integrity.

                    •  I'm not as cynical about their intelligence as... (0+ / 0-)

                      .
                      . . . you are; I just think that -- for all the right reasons -- they like and feel a deep loyalty to and for this President and will grab at any straws to "shield" him from criticism.  

                      What's a shame, though, is that they can't (or won't) distinguish between our kind of criticism (we like the guy; we just want him to start kicking more ass and taking more names) and the kind puked-forth by the Teabaggers, Birthers and all such sort of nuts out there, out here.

                      .

                      "I have to go now. I feel . . . sticky." Anthony Bourdain

                      by BenGoshi on Tue Jul 13, 2010 at 10:43:54 AM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                    •  LOL - nice try (1+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      wwjjd

                      I responded to BenGoshi above.

                      My actions rest with pushing congresscritters to write better laws and helping people to understand WHY we went down the wrong path in the late 1970's-early 1980's.  I know how the government is supposed to work.  And I also understand that the USA is a capitalist society.  I refuse to bang my head against a wall and rant and rave on a website to change something that is not going to change.

                      You can have at it all you want.

                  •  That's not what I said and you know it (0+ / 0-)

                    The health insurance bill was going to pass as it did with or without Obama's "involvement".  If you talked to people and read outside of the paid-shill diaries on DKOS that sent people on wild goose chases after decent congressmembers, you would have known that.  

                •  I don't give him credit or blame for anything (0+ / 0-)

                  I look at Congress.  Obama can veto any bills that come his way, or not.  He can articulate what he'd like to see in a bill, or not.  But the writing of the bill belongs to congress.  

                  I knew exactly what Obama was when he ran for office...it was crystal clear if anyone actually listened to him and read his bio.  He made it WITHIN the system.  And the people he has surrounded himself with are also from within the system.  Within the system.  So anyone looking for him to change that system is deluded.

                  •  Excellent choice of word "change" (0+ / 0-)

                    "anyone looking for him to "change" the system is deluded."  I couldn't agree with you more.  And deluded people make for very unhappy voters.  

                    Whether you want to accept it or not, Obama presented himself to the American public as an agent of change, as someone who wanted to fix things in DC.  You can deride the people who heard this message all you want, but it will not help bring people to the polls to vote for Democrats.  

                    •  And what people heard with that "change" (0+ / 0-)

                      theme was "give me what I want".  

                      That is not Obama's goal.  He wants to take us back to "one for all", after Reagan and the others took us to "all for one".  It is a worthy goal, but will not be accomplished in 8 years.  It took Reagan his whole 8, all of Clinton's term, and then the dreaded GWB to fully remove any vestige of community from our national dialogue - an entire generation to get people to the selfish, hateful place they are now.  

                      And, here we sit.  There is a reason Obama's rhetoric resounded with voters....and it's the same reason Reagan's did.  

                      Until we get better congresspeople (from both parties), nothing will change.  

              •  So the Obama administration deserves no credit (0+ / 0-)

                for any legislation passed in the last 18 months.

                Nice to know.  As a matter of fact, I suspect they wouldn't mind that story.

                "Ultimately, we need to move beyond the tired debates of the left and the right, between business leaders and environmentalists" - President Obama, March 31

                by justmy2 on Tue Jul 13, 2010 at 09:58:07 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

    •  Obama reaction will be go further right. (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      justmy2, greenearth, coffejoe, orestes1963

      Obama will toss another log of "bipartisanship" on the bonfire of his vanity that he is "doing great work" and nothing will get done, no unemployment for 14 million, no stimulus.

      If Obama had planned to kill Democratic Congress he could not have acted more ineptly, allowing GOP minority to rule from the very beginning with the farcical health care "Group of Six".  Capping it off (excuse the pun) with his abandoning his own campaign rhetoric about "we can't drill our way out of oil shortage", opening up East Coast to drilling days before Gulf Coast was destroyed by drilling.

      You can see the Social Security cuts and more Medicare cuts looming as Obama's GOP run "Cut Social Security Commission" recommends cutting SS, GOP Congress enthusiastically embraces cutting SS and Obama signs off on cutting SS as his grandest (and likely last) act of bipartisanship.

    •  I would expect President Obama to roll out a jobs (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      askew, mmacdDE, amk for obama

      bill in September or October.  This would do two things.  It would clearly show voters that Republicans are not on their side.  It would also show voters the good that would be possible by thinning Republican ranks in Congress.

      Read Teixeira's 2010 report, and see why the GOP is done.

      by Georgeo57 on Tue Jul 13, 2010 at 08:03:05 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  He is trying for a jobs bill NOW... (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        justmy2, greenearth

        with very little money attached to it.  The money is not there and the skittish conservadems are with the Republicans for paying for anything MASSIVE, which is what is needed in this country, a MASSIVE jobs program.  Unemployment is 9.5% but realistically closer to 16-20%.  Not extending unemployment benefits is throwing 200K+ folk off the roll weekly.

        What we need is MASSIVE, enough to garner national attention.  10-20B is not going to do anything but hold onto to state jobs that the original stimulus kept last year.

        Time to think outside the box and not the continuous D.C. box.  Those ideas are stale and have gotten us no where.

      •  How nice of the Administration? (0+ / 0-)

        Rolling out a jobs bill 2 months from now...

        Good grief...

        This isn't a war of our choosing.  Economic sense is firmed up in July of an election year.

        And the worse part is GOP will take credit for any economic improvement if they take control.  Just like they did during the Clinton Rubin years.

        "Ultimately, we need to move beyond the tired debates of the left and the right, between business leaders and environmentalists" - President Obama, March 31

        by justmy2 on Tue Jul 13, 2010 at 10:02:03 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  Explains why there will be GOP Congress in Nov. (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    greatdarkspot, icebergslim

    Trying to paint the recent election results and polling data as "equivocal" is simply intellectually dishonest.

    The data backs up Pew and Gallup data that GOP enjoys close to a 20% edge in voter enthusiasm going into 2010 mid term election that is heavily weighted to base turnout.

    The data backs up the 2010 election results to date which show GOP voting up 10% and Democratic voting down 10%.

    The data backs up GOP biased polls from Rasmussen which reflect the election results to date and the polling data of Pew and Gallup.

    The data of this Post/ABC poll mentioned in this diary add to the overwhelming data that GOP will win most Congressional contests where GOP candidate is tied or within 5% of Democratic candidate.

    This applies to the 35 House seats rated "tossup" which are ALL currently held by Democrats.  This applies to all Senate contests.  It means incumbents like Boxer, Feingold and Murray who all show 1-4% ahead of GOP challengers will likely lose.  It means any Democratic candidate without a solid 5% lead will likely lose.

    That translates to GOP House and Senate next year, one populated by even more extreme right wingers.

    Not much Democrats can do at this point unless they suddenly got smart, killed filibuster, pass stimulus and unemployment, passed real health care and Wall St/bank reform in few remaining months.

    Instead, Democrats, very much like this diarist, will be saying the polling and election data to date are "not clear" and "what iceberg" and generally ignoring the facts.

    •  Of course (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      icebergslim, CapeTown96

      Of course, by pointing that out, you'll get labeled a 'concern troll'.  Like you, I can see the iceberg and have seen it for a while, but see no point upsetting people's Pollyanna world.

      "In his library at Simi Valley, dead Reagan waits dreaming"

      by greatdarkspot on Tue Jul 13, 2010 at 07:51:27 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Pollyanna on Ecstasy. (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        greatdarkspot
        Sober Pollyanna would be counting lifeboats.
        •  what I wrote (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          amk for obama

          The best term for this is "continued erosion". The generic numbers above are better than Feb, but still do not favor Democrats (who typically need to lead by 5 points or so to make up for those who don't show up at the polls.) If you're an incumbent (any incumbent, any party), your seat is not safe. Just saying no isn't a ticket to popularity for Republicans in this poll, and Republicans (and ther lack of public confidence) remain the best thing going for Democrats. Is that enough? Not to prevent seats from being lost. But there'll be some seats Republicans should win that they won't, and there's still no unusual groundswell of angry mobs wiuth pitchforks who demand to vote in an off year election

          You want to take issue with it, go ahead. But do it honestly.

          "Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies." - Groucho Marx

          by Greg Dworkin on Tue Jul 13, 2010 at 08:17:00 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

    •  you know what? (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      askew, amk for obama, Escamillo

      You're a very annoying poster.

      You're entitled to yuor opinion as am I, but I would not be so quick to accuse others of intellectual dishonesty when you are clearly practicing it yourself. That is especially true when you put words in my mouth that I didn't say.

      "Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies." - Groucho Marx

      by Greg Dworkin on Tue Jul 13, 2010 at 08:08:00 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Well, that's the dream. The reality is that (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      mmacdDE

      the 2010 elections will be about an economy very much like the economy during the 1930s, when Republicans lost 40 Senate seats and 178 House seats.  To consider the upcoming elections as anything resembling usual is to have failed to learn the lessons of history.  Republicans are going down.

      Read Teixeira's 2010 report, and see why the GOP is done.

      by Georgeo57 on Tue Jul 13, 2010 at 08:08:22 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  I think most people in the 'some' column (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    amk for obama

    are likely to stay with their incumbents.  Having 'some confidence' isn't a negative...it's frustration, but it's not negativity. Counting them as 'throw the bums out' voters is wishful thinking.

    Once in a while you get shown the light, in the strangest of places if you look at it right.

    by darthstar on Tue Jul 13, 2010 at 07:33:16 AM PDT

  •  The old Guilt Tripping tactic...I love it (3+ / 0-)

    A special kind of bullying tactic. WaPo suggests to Dems that they don't care enough about their self-doubting, anxious, and submissive base of the party.

    So Dems should cater to the extreme and radical part of their base just like the Republicans are doing.

    Nice try WaPo maybe you should spend more time hiring an intelligent Editor.

    •  The problem with the media's spin campaign for (0+ / 0-)

      Republicans is that they fail to appreciate the dynamic that was born in 2006.  We Democrats no longer get apathetic or discourage.  We get angry and then attack ruthlessly, as Republicans will soon enough realize.

      Read Teixeira's 2010 report, and see why the GOP is done.

      by Georgeo57 on Tue Jul 13, 2010 at 08:13:19 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Yeah, sure. (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      justmy2, orestes1963

      That's because bi-partisanship and centrism is working so well.

      So Dems should cater to the extreme and radical part of their base just like the Republicans are doing.

      Who do you think the Obama campaign was appealing to that got him elected?

      What did you think "Change" meant? Because the only "change" that could have happened different from the policies of the republicans would have had to be (and in some cases were) more liberal, populist policies. "Change you can believe in" meant, whether you want to admit it or not, turning more to the left, more towards that radical Democratic base.

      Populism is what's needed. Populism fires people up. Populism is Democratic "base" politics.

  •  Dow, no. Organize to fight lies, YES (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    mmacdDE, PsychoSavannah

    The Dow doesn't matter if you're out off work on main street. Financial reform might chip away at pundit group think. On a grass roots level the basic lies have to be fought and memes have to be worked.

    From my still friends but drank the koolaid Republican crew last night:

    Question: Why did Obama turn down foreign help with the BP disaster?

    Answer: He didn't (except the French not-approved dispersant). And, no, the Norwegians do not have the technology to stop the flow any faster.

    Question: Isn't this like 1994?

    Answer: No. The Dems have only been in power for two years. Clinton's last budget was balanced. The Dems aren't trying to ban assault rifles.

    Question: Doesn't everyone support the Arizona law.

    Answer: ... we shall see ... but it's better to do what's right than what's politically expedient. Respect the Constitution.

    Yeah, it's jobs, jobs, jobs. But who got us into this mess? (with defunding Social Security) the Republicans want to kill grandpa.

    The time is now. Be pissed at the centrists (and I usually am) later. All hands on deck.

    If you didn't like the news today, go out and make some of your own.

    by jgnyc on Tue Jul 13, 2010 at 07:35:46 AM PDT

  •  Throw which bums out really ? The primaries (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    askew, A Runner, PeakRaider

    are almost over and most of the incumbents (97% ?) have been elected back by both parties. So, where is the question of throwing all the bums out ? This is irrational poll asked with irrational framing.

    BP - Proving Oil and Water do mix.
    A Presidency Among the Vuvuzelas.

    by amk for obama on Tue Jul 13, 2010 at 07:38:00 AM PDT

  •  Listening to a wingnut this AM on the radio...he (0+ / 0-)

    says if congress can't pass an energy bill that weans us off of fossil fuels, then the responsibility should be taken out of their hands...heh heh heh.

  •  Am I missing something? Repubs at 72%! (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    coffejoe

    58% of the people don't think Obama will make the right decisions, but the repubs are at 72%. How do you get to 72% if we are a center right country? Over 70% is an incredible percentage. You can't get 72% of the people to agree that the sky is blue.

  •  Need To WHINE Louder 'Bout Evil Thugs Who (0+ / 0-)

    get in the way of our noblerer betterer gooderer nicerer sell outs who are trying to be bipartisan-er!

    of course, some say* that IF the big 0 had gone tooth and nail after 1, just ONE, group of the big pig thieves -

    - AHIP/Pharma... OR,

    - Defense contracting management scum, OR

    - energy welfare corportate scum, OR

    - wall street 7 and 8 figure scum, ...

    some say* that the base of Democratic voters would be fired up AND

    the real independents and the real moderates,

    not the fascist defined fake independents and the fascist defined phony moderates -

    the real independents and the real moderates would be supporting Obama and Dems.

    Maybe the political pathetics and sell outs will have to get new jobs this year? YAWN.

    rmm.

    (* we all "some say" are just the dirty fucking hippies who caused mondale, dukakis, kerry, gore, clinton ... to all compromise away the promised land of broderism! )

    Yond Cassius has a lean and hungry look; He thinks too much: such men are dangerous

    by seabos84 on Tue Jul 13, 2010 at 07:43:23 AM PDT

  •  Throw all the bums out mentality allows (3+ / 0-)

    for baggers to sneak into office.

    Our discontent can only be held in check by perfection.

    by A Runner on Tue Jul 13, 2010 at 07:46:37 AM PDT

  •  Democrats should be grateful for Republicans. (0+ / 0-)

    When times are bad, you can't ask for much more than an utterly incompetent opponent.

    The Republicans have no Newt this year rallying the troops and generating a theme that resonates with the country.

    As a result, they will settle for the benefit of anti-Democratic anger and probably lose a few seats of their own.

    I don't believe that it will be enough to take the house,
    with little time left to make any changes that can be felt on Main Street, Democrats have more opportunity to sink than rise.

    Free speech? Yeah, I've heard of that. Have you?

    by dinotrac on Tue Jul 13, 2010 at 07:48:21 AM PDT

  •  Fast food democracy (5+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Rosita, zizi, amk for obama, NM Ray, coffejoe

    How is it that GW Bush can be proved a total buffoon in his first 18 months in office and Republicans go on to take the Senate and hold onto the House in 2002? But Dems and Obama deliver one of the most productive and competent legislative periods in recent history these last 18 months and voters seem to be turning on them. WTF? Are Americans really this uniformed and impatient? Solving the problems that the Republicans left for Obama is not like ordering a double cheeseburger at McDonald's. Sheesh. The American people need to grow up.

    •  Yes (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      amk for obama, coffejoe

      Are Americans really this uniformed and impatient?

    •  Yup. Americans need to fucking grow up. (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Rosita

      BP - Proving Oil and Water do mix.
      A Presidency Among the Vuvuzelas.

      by amk for obama on Tue Jul 13, 2010 at 08:19:35 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Very easy question (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      greenearth

      How is it that GW Bush can be proved a total buffoon in his first 18 months in office and Republicans go on to take the Senate and hold onto the House in 2002

      Because Karl Rove focused on his base during those months understanding who votes in midterms...Democrats on the other hand focused on the magical bipartisanship pony and are about to get their tails handed to them.

      No one is looking for everything to be solved, they simply needs to be some tangible results can be felt...not results that say we passed something that will help you 5 years from now.

      Tax cuts were immediate in 2001, Patriot Act, AUMF...all tangible...

      Instead we get a health care law that won't affect most people for 4 years, a continued war and basic financial reform that will be used against Democrats during the next failure.  

      Oh well...

      Oops...

      "Ultimately, we need to move beyond the tired debates of the left and the right, between business leaders and environmentalists" - President Obama, March 31

      by justmy2 on Tue Jul 13, 2010 at 10:15:52 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Are you willing to consider (0+ / 0-)

      that perhaps the pols have got it wrong, not the voters?  The Dem establishment has the benefit of great resources to determine how to satisfy voters to ensure future votes.  But, I doubt you would consider the possibility that the Dems sold a bill of goods and then didn't deliver.  For example, if we had had a real fight for true health care reform, voters would be ready to vote Dem even if the initiative failed.  They could target the opponents in an effort to ensure passage on a revote.  But, no.  Instead of engaging voters, the Dems gave us the this is the best we could do line.  It doesn't sell.  

      Since you are so convinced of the raging success of the past two years, I wonder if you are willing to entertain this possibility.  I can assure you that I am an informed voter and I am greatly displeased with the chicanery of the past 18 months.  I have also been patient for the past 30 years (having come of age in the dawn of Reagan).  

  •  Starting to sound like Republicans... (0+ / 0-)

    Yeah, the polls are bad, but they're really not.....making excuses or trying to justify the mood of the electorate is never a good sign.

    The care of human life and happiness, and not their destruction, is the first and only legitimate object of good government. - Thomas Jefferson

    by ctexrep on Tue Jul 13, 2010 at 07:56:30 AM PDT

    •  you talking to me? (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      amk for obama

      or you talking to someone else?

      I like this quote (Peter Hart, NBC/WSJ, about his own poll in June: "These numbers aren’t good. But they are far from awful." )

      "These numbers aren't good" can be taken at face value. what excuses are you referring to?

      "Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies." - Groucho Marx

      by Greg Dworkin on Tue Jul 13, 2010 at 08:22:26 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I think you state the obvious (0+ / 0-)

        and while you're not making excuses (bad choice of words on my part) - I don't get the impression that you believe that the problems facing the electorate today (unemployment etc) are Obama's and Democrats problems.

        Regardless of who's policies led to what we are going through, the party in power suffers.  If things were rosey, the party in power would get the credit (regardless of who's policies were responsible for the prosperity).

        I understand it's part of the purpose of this site to "educate" and explain.  Unfortunately, for better or worse, the electorate goes with the flow.....if they're being told things are good, things are good (or better) if they're being told they are bad, they're bad.

        The care of human life and happiness, and not their destruction, is the first and only legitimate object of good government. - Thomas Jefferson

        by ctexrep on Tue Jul 13, 2010 at 09:08:22 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  huh (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          asdfghjkl

          I don't get the impression that you believe that the problems facing the electorate today (unemployment etc) are Obama's and Democrats problems.

          You got the wrong impression. They are in charge, they will be blamed (though polls clearly show Bush being blamed more (crytal clear fact, not debatable. But Bush isn't on the ballot, so that won't help Dems this fall.)

          If have any other impression, I can't say why.

          "Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies." - Groucho Marx

          by Greg Dworkin on Tue Jul 13, 2010 at 09:36:23 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

  •  You think anyone else is better...? (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Rosita, Palafox, amk for obama
    It amuses me that people want to vote knee-jerk style, because the grass is greener....The ones in office are the same ones we elected not too long ago...you think new ones are going to be any better...?  Suck it up and make a difference yourself.  
  •  This is a really shocking poll (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    greenearth

    IMO and I believe most is due to the bad reporting of the Media. The Media wants the Dems to lose they want the love fest with the Republicans and Palin.

    However, even Gibbs is doing the gloom and doom, blame game by saying Republcians could win the house. Seems like a better message would be "We will win because we are helping Americans not special interest."

    So, maybe the base is upset. I shouldn't have to call the WH for them to fight for me. My Senator from Michigan is fighting against the invasive aisan carp and I didn't even have to tell her!

    Wait until they cut Social Security and raise the retirement age.  If they think their polls are low now.

    How much pain have cost us the evils which have never happened. Thomas Jefferson

    by coffejoe on Tue Jul 13, 2010 at 08:44:54 AM PDT

  •  Capping the "spill" & FinReg? Accomplishments? (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    orestes1963

    Jeez, I thought the closing the barn door after the horses have been let out  approach to governning left with Bush.  

    It was Obama's MMS that approved the Deepwater well when instead it should have put a hold on all such approvals until a thorough reviee of the Bush process had been conducted.   A year and half after ratifying Bush's writing of the largest welfare checks in world history to Wall St millionaires/billionaires, Obama and the Democrats pass weak tea FinReg that Paul Volcker says guaranties a replay of Sept. 2008.

    These "accomplishments" are expected to improve Obama's ratings?

  •  WaPo has a meme and they're sticking to it... (0+ / 0-)

    ...no matter what the facts are.

  •  I noticed an interesting thing watching CSPAN's (0+ / 0-)

    Washignton Journal this morning. Although as a trend setter it is impossible to guage because basically they selcet opposing calls to balance the program but in response to the question regarding faith in Congress and Obama's agenda the answers were tyopical talkign point answers: Dems give him a chance and Repubs and Indies 'we don't want no socialist/liberal policies' however when asked what they though the republcians would offer if elected they basically admitted they had no idea.

    So frankly I take these polls with a bag of salt and as usual feel it will depend on turnout but I am becoming mroe and more pessimistic if theis ite is any sort of weathervane fdor electral victory as more and more here are blaming Obama for not doing enough while the opposition blames Obama for doing too much. If there are not enough of us who feel he's got it about right to get re-elected we will lose.

    It is the Goldilocks phenomena split 3/3/3.

    So personally i am just going to focus this year on our local elections as Obama is not on the chopping block and retaining the Congress, both houses, is a local and state affair.

    As always, it is still up to US and DK is no longer inpsiring me to get active so I'll have to rely on my own political savvy and needs. I will do whatever I can to retain control so Obama can little by little move the ship of state forward instead of being dragged back on the rock by the Repubs.

    •  You've identified his political weakness (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      orestes1963

      ". . . more and more here are blaming Obama for not doing enough while the opposition blames Obama for doing too much"

      The opposition was always going to blame him for doing too much.  What was Obama's choice, and a bad one, was electing to not use his win and large Congressional majorities to deliver for his base, which at one point comprised most of us here.  Now he has left many of us, perhaps too many, disillusioned while making, quite predictably, ZERO inroads with the GOP with his repeated & unnecessary concessions, lack of combativeness, and ridiculous focus on placating the unplacatable right wing nuts.

      Policy wise Bush was a moron and horribly intentioned.  Politically, even that moron understood you dance with the one who brought you.    

      •  I totally disagree with your narrow view of the (0+ / 0-)

        obligations of the President of the United States. He/she is the leader of ALL of us and the Commander in Chief on ALL our military, not merely those who voted for him.

        That is naive, shallow and incredibly partisan. This is not Prom night for Christ's sake and many of you are treating the electoral system as a high school football game.

        A president is not a congressperson responsible to the narrow self interests of his/her limited home turf.

        If this is your attitude and considered opinion you and i have nothing left to debate. Have a nice day.

        •  Incredibly partisan? absolutely (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          justmy2, wsexson

          shallow & naive?  Not at all.

          The opposition are NUTS, batshit crazy.  Ignore them.

          And spare me the C in C stuff, I am not in the military and have little use for American foreign policy, $700 billion "defense" budgets, and deployment of troops to pursue imperialistic objectives. I vote for a Chief Executive of the government.  The level of militarism in this society and worshipping of all things military including the CIVILIAN President's role is to my mind the single biggest problem we have.

          The President is a politician, a political leader, that's all.  Is he getting what you want done or not?  If so, support him, if not oppose.  SImple as that.  Clearly, this President has not gotten done what a lot of his 2008 supporters wanted to see done, and he was never going to get anything done that the opposition would ever appreciate.  Whether he has retained enough support/enthusiasm to head off a GOP rout remains to be seen.  

          I doubt it.

          •  Like I said. I totally disagree with your (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            mmacdDE

            perspective of the constitutional obligations of the role of President.

            It is shallow, it is insular, it is parochial and it is personal, it is not reality.  Your district congressperson matches that definition, your state Senator matches that definition  NOT the President. Therefore that is merely your personal interpretation and incredibly naive.

            I do not view the role of the President in the same way at all.

  •  If this were any other election cycle... (0+ / 0-)

    ...Republicans could dream big about taking control of Congress. But with the out-of-mainstream and indeed wacko alternatives the Republicans are proposing (examples: Rand Paul and Sharron Angle), the GOP will be lucky if they pick up two or three Senate seats and 10-15 House seats. And who would really want to give control of the House to a party whose prospective Speaker likened our financial crisis to an ant and whose perspective House committee chairman apologized to BP for being asked to compensate victims of their disastrous oil spill. And this does not include the comment of the financially and morally irresponsible Sen. Jon Kyl who claimed we never have to pay for tax cuts for the richest 1 percent while wanting to deny unemployment benefits to millions of hurting Americans.

    "First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win." -Mohandas K. Gandhi

    by alaprst on Tue Jul 13, 2010 at 09:09:42 AM PDT

  •  It's not Congress, or Obama... (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    soccergrandmom, Wildthumb

    ...that's keeping the Economy from recovering.

    It's Corporate CEO's and Chamber of Commerce assholes who KNOW that a recovering, or even booming, economy would be the death of the Republican Party...their Party...in 2010,12. Plentiful jobs would lead to a popular Obama, which would lead to more Democratic legislative successes, leading to an America made much harder to financially rape by Corporate boardroom, Wall Street driven greed.

    If companies started hiring now, it would help the Democrats, so they're holding off. Allowing only the minimum to maintain basic operations. (then working the people they have like dogs) If the banks started lending again, it would spur small business growth and  hiring, trickling down to their suppliers and partners. But if that happened, it would lead to positive headlines about U.S. job numbers which would boost Obama in an election year. So the Big Banks are resistant to lend to anyone but each other.  That's the thanks we get for the billions in bailouts. (Which they probably see as a end of term gift from Bush/Cheney)

    I'm beginning to think these rich, robberbarron assholes have actually spread the word amongst themselves to do all they can to choke off any Economic Recovery in America...for their own political gain.  

    How many executive level participants, in the right places, would it take to have this effect? A dozen? Two dozen? Are all those names in Karl Rove's address book? With everybody else down the line following suit because they're conditioned to follow the lead of the Corporate "leaders," the cumulative effect would be devastating.

    All we need is one whistleblower, with a conscience, who saved that one email from the RNC, or Grover Nordquist, or Thomas J. Donohue recommending that they do all they can to destroy any Obama Recovery.

    •  Undoubtedly some truth in what you say (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Carbon

      but it is nothing new.  Obama should have foreseen their intransigence and acted accordingly, forcing issues instead of compromising on them before negotiations had even begun.  The GOP was never acting in good faith and the GOP will sacrifice the economy to regain power.  We knew that in January 2009 so Obama should have been ready for batttle then.  Instead he insisted we needed to "work together,"  obtain GOP votes etc. and in the process aided and abetted the GOP helping to restore credibility to what had rightfully been a thoroughly discredited politcal party, saddling his supporters with weak tea reform in every instance.

      What the GOP does day in and day out, and has been doing since Obama was sworn in, disgusts probably everyone here.  But it should not surprise anyone least of all the supposed wise, politically attuned experts in the WH and Congress.

      •  And all they really needed to do was to turn... (0+ / 0-)

        ...one or two Democratic Senators to force the watering down of reform.

        On the bright side, the last 2 years has caused the GOP, and it's allies, to overreach to the extent that they can really never again pretend that they represent main street or the Middle Class.  The Republican's only play against Obama has effectively painted them as the party of corporate tools supported only by useful idiot teabaggers brainwashed by absurd propaganda.

        But this helps us only if we can get the word out effectively.  Too bad we don't really have a "liberal media."

  •  GMA's Frustration Graphs (0+ / 0-)

    These got me frustrated with GMA again. I think they purposely put Carville on there against some total wingnut Republican just so Stephanopoulos can sit back and chuckle. Of course people are frustrated. But stretching to think that having GOP in control would be better is far from realistic.

  •  Hey, guys. Just breezed in to let everybody know (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    mmacdDE

    that I still support Barack, I will donate time and money for Barbara Boxer and Jerry Brown in California, and let the rest of you armchair bullshitters rant on Kos about how bad everything is and how we can do nothing so we might as well stay home and let the real assholes have the whole enchilada.  

    I won't stay home and I won't give up. Sorry you will and you have. TA TA.

    •  In New mexico I shall do everything i possibly (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Wildthumb, Tailspinterry

      can to elect Diane Denish over Susannah Martinez as Governor. I am very satisfied with Ben Ray Lujan, my rep and Tom Udall, Senator is not running.

      I am a solid supporter of the President and since I never thought he promised anything he is not trying his damnedest to deliver I shall continue to support him. I believe he has done amazing things in the face of almost solid 'Just Say No' opposition from Republicans. If that is what people want, then that is what people will get.

      It is really interesting as this mid-term is really showing up the shallowness of the so-called progressive base. This is not a reality site at all anymore.

      But who cares. It no longer influences me personally. I have a mind of my own and know how to use it.
      The last couple of days I have been glued to the Gulf drill/or not to drill hearings in Congress. Absolutely fascinating and veritable slice of the polarization of the nation in those who want the moratorium extended and those who want to drill baby drill. They prefer jobs over destruction of the environment.

      That is the real battle and Obama cannot do much about much unless he declares martial law and assumes the mantle of a totalitarian dictator.

      If Progressives want to rip the system apart, they are doing a really good job, so we shall see whether sanity and pragmatism prevails.

      Right now I believe Dems will lose some seats but I don't' see a wipeout and shall then sit back and see HOW Repubs plan to govern.  We have seen how much mischief the minority can do, so maybe the boot will be on the other foot. Maybe a good thing.

  •  Since when does "Some Confidence" = lack of faith (0+ / 0-)

    Look at how the Post spins these results.  They ask a 4 point scale on confidence -- A great deal of confidence, a good deal of confidence, just some confidence, or none at all.

    3 of those are categories of people expressing at least some faith in Obama to make the right decisions. Only the teabag base 29% say "no confidence."

    But, the post combines those who say they have some confidence in Obama to make the right decisions with those who say they have none, and then writes a headline that says, "6 in 10 Americans lack faith in Obama."

    WTF?

    Couldn't I just as easily spin these results to say "7 in 10 Americans have faith in Obama?  

    How do they get to interpret "some confidence" as "lacking faith"?    

    Good thing professional journalists adhere to such high standards, eh?

    "Journalistic conventions make it hard for reporters to deal with a big, complicated lie." -- Michael Kinsley.

    by dcg2 on Tue Jul 13, 2010 at 10:32:24 AM PDT

    •  It's a continuation of the everyone's mad (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      dcg2

      at Obama (aka: Obama has a problem) meme the media has been pushing since the campaign.  

      Same shit, different day.

      The man went to Harvard, not Hogwarts. - Wanda Sykes

      by KHinSF on Tue Jul 13, 2010 at 03:08:17 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Dem from Ct, I regard you with (0+ / 0-)

    esteem and respect but, I resent that you report the details of the horserace for all of the politics addicts and not the horse race business; as if there is some frivolous context in which they can be separated.
      Recently, a Democrat commented to me about his anger at Democrats:
       

     Politics is war pursued by other means. Republicans understand this, which is why Democrats look stupid when they show up with flowers to a gunfight.  

        Is that also  true of football? Or, is war a marketing fantasy for the benefit of the consumer? It might become a shooting war when people finally wake up to their feckless helplessness.
           Any endeavor that anyone engages in with sincere vigor is going to leave that person looking stupid to someone or even some group.
          I believe with all of my heart that I am in a struggle for human rights and social justice. That is much different than a war and how I judge the conduct of politics.
         Democrats should not even show up to a gunfight. They cannot win a gunfight even if they showed up with guns. It is only the bysanders that are the victims and no one is helped.
         A struggle for human rights and social justice is just that, a struggle. Politicians that fight wars to only win the next election are neglecting their constituents. If you believe that you are fighting a war, then you are participating in a conservative meme as are all the panicked commentators here.
         What there is to know about pundits, pollsters, strategist and party operatives  is that  all of the time and money that you devote to them, goes to them and only them. All you get is the unsolved problems.
          What makes Democratic pols look stupid is engaging in a gunfight to begin with when it is innocent people that get hurt. What makes them look stupid and pusillanimous is fighting for political dominance instead of struggling for human rights and social justice.
         All of the money invested in their campaigns can be used by their individual  communities to solve their own problems. A politician can earn his value as a citizen instead of worthless professions of faith and fidelity in marriage.
           The system of politics in a democracy is to match voters to candidates. Other than that important but narrow function,  politics is simply an expression of political conservatism.
        At the point where it becomes war for political domination, politics no longer serves that useful but narrow function. These contests are just that. Believing in professional politicians like believing in the tooth fairy.
       Make them prove their worth by improving their community not by campaigning better than their opponent.

    Liberty Valence Saying, ''consumer protection'' is like saying, ''slavery protection.''

    by libertyvalence on Tue Jul 13, 2010 at 12:11:59 PM PDT

    •  without disagreeing (0+ / 0-)

      (I think the substance trumps the politics, as you do), the fact is that campaigning better than their opponent is not either/or improving their community, since the latter lets you do the former.

      But if your oppnent is going to run on death panels while you attempt health reform, and otherwise distort your record, you'd best get good at campaigning and not dismiss the politics (without which you cannot imporve your community.)

      "Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies." - Groucho Marx

      by Greg Dworkin on Tue Jul 13, 2010 at 12:38:48 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I wonder. I'll want to be short but... (0+ / 0-)

            If you run on a health care bill that while not containing death panels, represents an accommodation to unelected establishment power and oligarchic money interests, and the immediate benefits are equivocal with negative aspects, like mandatory enrollment and insurance company loopholes. And a fear to begin with of bureaucracy. Plus the fact that Obama was a feckless politician in this and other matters and not a leader. The only ones who could not see through it were the die-hard fans.
              A candidate's rhetoric is not going to persuade someone whose ingrained wisdom is to believe that their elected official is at war with his opponent and can be excused for using any means possible to defeat the enemy, including lies. It is easy for them to assume that a challenger is lying despite his hopeful rhetoric.
           Too many liberals fail to see this and believe that their reasoning and reason is a supreme value.
           They are losing because they are talking out of their asses and because they are not working in communities to deliver services. That is the only antidote to conservative rhetoric.
           The incumbent has that edge but only because Democratic challengers insist on waging a political war when deep down they are claiming a soul of human rights.It is a profound spiritual conflict.
             It does not ring true to me, it does not sit well with me. Imagine the credibility of MLK's struggle if he showed up to Edmund Pettis bridge in Birmingham with AK-47's.
           After Kerry was defeated, the best public statement tat he was able to muster was, "we should have been more like the Republicans."
         That was a dick thing to say and I think that is the paradigm that too many Democrats live by.
             I mean no disrespect, thank you for replying. I depend on you for information. I beg you to re-think this. I reject your answer.

        Liberty Valence Saying, ''consumer protection'' is like saying, ''slavery protection.''

        by libertyvalence on Tue Jul 13, 2010 at 04:28:02 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  Many new and infrequent voters (0+ / 0-)

    who supported Obama in 2008 did not vote down ballot. Making the case for them to turn out in an offyear is a heavy lift but possible. We say, "DO you support Obama?" If yes, then we say "He needs allies on congress like Harry Reid and Dina Titus to help him fight for working familes and get our economy back on track. He can't do it by himself." This is the OFA program to reach Obama voters which should produce a small but crucial boost in midterm turnout.

    ....the only thing we have to fear is fear itself. FDR 1933

    by Tailspinterry on Tue Jul 13, 2010 at 02:04:19 PM PDT

  •  The enthusiasm gap in Las Vegas goes (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    DemFromCT

    the other way. About 500 people tepidly applauded Angle at the state GOP convention. An SRO crowd of 3000+ cheering fans packed the Aria ballroom for Obama and Reid last week.

    ....the only thing we have to fear is fear itself. FDR 1933

    by Tailspinterry on Tue Jul 13, 2010 at 02:09:26 PM PDT

  •  6 in10 Americans don't know their ass from a (0+ / 0-)

    hole in the ground.  Republicans are blocking every attempt at job creation and the public blames Obama. I am not surprised by this poll, most Americans are clueless and ignorant beyond belief.

    The man went to Harvard, not Hogwarts. - Wanda Sykes

    by KHinSF on Tue Jul 13, 2010 at 03:02:08 PM PDT

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