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Sometimes polls speak for themselves. This one is from CBS (MoE +/- 3):

A majority of Americans have a negative impression of the economy and expect the effects of the recession to linger for years, according to a new CBS News poll.

Most also say President Obama has spent too little time on the economy, which Americans cite as the country's most important problem by a wide margin.

Three in four Americans now say the effects of the recession will last another two years or more. More than eight in 10 say the condition of the economy is bad, up five points from last month.

Just 25 percent of Americans say the economy is getting better - down from 41 percent in April. About half say it is staying the same, and the remaining quarter stay it is getting worse.

More than half of Americans - 52 percent - say Mr. Obama has spent too little time dealing with the economy.

And with unemployment near 10 percent, the economy is their priority: Thirty-eight percent volunteer it as the country's most important problem. That far outpaces the percentage that cited the wars in Iraq or Afghanistan (seven percent), health care (six percent), the deficit (five percent), and the oil spill in the Gulf (five percent).

Want to take credit for saving the economy? Do a better job explaining it. A majority (56%) think the stimulus didn't do anything. We also learn that 18% of the country is incapable of rational analysis - they think it hurt the economy. Specifically:

The Issues: Economic Priorities

Most Americans - 53 percent - say the best way to get the economy moving is to cut taxes. Thirty-seven percent instead choose government spending on job creation.

Americans are split about how the federal government should spend its money: Forty-six percent say the priority should be spending to create jobs, and 47 percent want to put the focus on deficit reduction.

More than half want Congress to extend unemployment benefits now, a Democratic priority that has been blocked by Congressional Republicans.

Most polls show the split between job creation and deficit reduction. This one highlights the focus on tax cutting over spending. But if you want to spend it on unemployment benefits, that's fine with the public.

In addition, there are some specifics on specific issues you can find here:

Poll: Support For Health Care Reform Drops

Poll: Most Want Afghanistan Withdrawal Timeline

Poll: Support for Arizona Immigration Law Hits 57 Percent

Obama's Approval Rating on Economy Drops

None of those are good news for Administration positions, but each has its nuance. For example on health reform:

While the new poll shows a recent drop in support, the numbers have still improved overall since March, when 53 percent of Americans disapproved of the new laws and 32 percent said they approved of them.

Most Republicans and independents disapprove of the reform package, the poll finds, while most Democrats approve of it. ...

When asked to name the country's most important problem, 6 percent named health care - about the same percentage of Americans who named the federal deficit (5 percent) and the Gulf oil spill (5 percent). The most cited problem by far, at 38 percent, was the economy.

The deficit ranks behind health care in importance. Right now, it's all about jobs.

On Afghanistan:

Today, the poll finds, 62 percent of Americans say the war is going badly, up from 49 percent in May. Just 31 percent say the war in Afghanistan is going well.

Nine years into the war, 33 percent of Americans say they do not want large numbers of U.S. troops in Afghanistan for another year. Twenty-three percent of Americans say they are willing to have troops stay there for one or two more years.

Just 35 percent are willing to have troops stay longer than two years.

Most Americans -- 54 percent -- think the U.S. should set a timetable for the withdrawal of U.S. troops from Afghanistan. Forty-one percent disagree.

While the majority is willing to give it a year, the majority is also not willing to give it two.

For perspective, CBS polls are searchable (go here). For all the various issues people care about, none matter more than the economy. These are from last month:

July's numbers are similar to June's: "Worse" isn't the issue (25%). "Same" is still 48%, and until that starts dropping, the electorate will be in an unforgiving mood, even as they appreciate many of the policies under attack. For example, on the drilling moratorium:

Until and unless the economy is perceived as moving ahead, expect more polls to show the same.

Originally posted to Daily Kos on Wed Jul 14, 2010 at 07:12 AM PDT.

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Comment Preferences

  •  Holy shit, am I reading this right? (29+ / 0-)

    More than half want Congress to extend unemployment benefits now, a Democratic priority that has been blocked by Congressional Republicans.

    Did a journalist actually and properly assign blame?

  •  Framing, framing, framing (22+ / 0-)

    The GOP has sold the idea of tax cuts as the key to economic growth so relentlessly that most Americans now agree - and therefore think the stimulus must not have worked.

    Economic ignorance enforced by a plethora of shrieking howler monkeys howling the benefits of tax cuts.

    Until we put a stake in the heart of Reaganomics, all our gains are temporary.

    In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice; but in practice, there always is a difference. - Yogi Berra

    by blue aardvark on Wed Jul 14, 2010 at 07:15:29 AM PDT

    •  I see they're also buying the deficit reduction (5+ / 0-)

      thing, and believing that illegal immigrants are "taking away our jobs".
      It's all tied together.  Everyone's worried about jobs, and that colors every other issue.  

      •  Illegal workers ARE taking away jobs.. (4+ / 0-)

        17% of construction workers alone are unauthorized workers.

        It's kinda hard to argue against facts.  Unless you are a Dem with your head in the sand, that is.

        "Those are my principles, and if you don't like them... well, I have others." - G. Marx

        by Skeptical Bastard on Wed Jul 14, 2010 at 07:50:10 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Penalize the employer! The only way to stop itnt (5+ / 0-)
        •  SB, I agree with you to an extent. (3+ / 0-)

          But I don't think the workers are the problem here, it's the corporations that exploit them with low wages and no safety standards.  
          If corps had to pay them standard wages the incentive to hire illegals would largely dry up.  By allowing these companies to get away with it, we ensure great downward pressure on wages and safety standards.  American workers are made desperate for a job, any job, and far more likely to accept the New Republican Utopia Reality..money will continue to flow upward and middle class will wither even more.
          Focusing all that rightful anger on the wrong target is a favorite ploy of the Right.  The companies get richer, nothing's ever actually done about illegal immigration (much to their benefit) and they get the credit for "trying to do something about it".  Win-win-win.  If you're a soulless corporate tool.  

          •  agreed.. but voters don't care whose (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            mjd in florida, sherlyle, orestes1963

            fault it is.. they want it fixed.  (I was not blaming the workers, btw..)

            Enforce the damn laws.. make it much harder for companies to hire illegally.

            "Those are my principles, and if you don't like them... well, I have others." - G. Marx

            by Skeptical Bastard on Wed Jul 14, 2010 at 08:09:45 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Enforcing the laws...what a novel concept! (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Skeptical Bastard

              Strongly agree with you on that.  The Bushies made a lot of our laws go mushy.  Subpoenas?  Nah, not if I don't feel like it.  You get the drift.  
              Why exactly should we have any faith that new laws will be obeyed when the old ones weren't?  
              You are absolutely correct about voter frustration with the problems not getting fixed, regardless of whose fault it is.  
              We already have the laws we need.  Now let's see them enforced.  

          •  That's the way the GOP approaches every issue (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            sherlyle

            If their not blaming their opponent for their own sins, they're hoisting blame on a "strawman" target to divide the nation over wedge issues.

            To Congress: "GO BIG" or go home

            by mjd in florida on Wed Jul 14, 2010 at 08:12:41 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Rove started that, and he was brilliant at it. (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              mjd in florida

              Before you yourself get called out on some dastardly deed, pivot and point to your opponent, accuse him of said deed.
              Opponent is flabbergasted, goes immediately into defensive posture.  And when you're accused of exactly that crime, who's going to believe it?  They just heard you call out someone else for that.

        •  What is interesting about (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          sherlyle, Skeptical Bastard

          that is in the NYT they were saying how this Administration is going in to work places that hire illegals, fining them and firing the illegal workers. A farmer in Washington said he put out a job posting and no one applied. Not sure about contstruction but farming doesn't seem to be what people want. However, I think you could do a WPA for both while people collect unemployment and try to find work. There are ideas but we don't seem to have anyone willing to take on new ones....

          How much pain have cost us the evils which have never happened. Thomas Jefferson

          by coffejoe on Wed Jul 14, 2010 at 08:10:25 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Wonder what the farmer was willing to pay? (4+ / 0-)

            Did he want to pay slave wages while putting his workers in physical danger?  Remember that poor girl who died from heat stroke in a farmer's field a couple of years ago?  Remember the workers forced to urinate where they worked among the crops because if they moved from the spot, they'd be fired?
            R's want to tell us "Americans won't do the jobs illegal immigrants will" and "Americans are too spoiled" to take the jobs available.
            When did we hurtle back in time to serfdom?  When did we suddenly become a Third World country, where you labor in the fields for your masters, and if you keel over and die, well, them's the breaks?
            Make no mistake about it.  This IS Republican Utopia, and if we accept it, they win.  For good.  And America, the idea of her, will just fade away into history.  So much for equality.  For freedom.

          •  I agree.. (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            sherlyle

            One simple idea would be to hire the unemployed to be general workers in work "pools".  Categorize these "pools" however you like.. manual labor.. skilled labor.. general office.. IT specialists.. whatever..

            Then make these workers available to any and all employers.  It might offset the costs of unemployment.. and workers could get a preium for the days they work.. not a "solution" per se to unemployment, but it might help ease us through the difficult times.

            "Those are my principles, and if you don't like them... well, I have others." - G. Marx

            by Skeptical Bastard on Wed Jul 14, 2010 at 08:23:08 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Hmm. How would we do that? (0+ / 0-)

              Would government subsidize their wages?  It's an interesting idea.   Of course, the R's would scream bloody murder.."government workers", blahblah.  
              There's a very good diary in there.  (hint)

              •  it would be tricky, for sure.. (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                sherlyle

                and it's more a off-the-top-of-my-head kinda idea right now anyway...

                I should think about it some more an diary it if it makes sense.,.. thanks for the hint! :)

                "Those are my principles, and if you don't like them... well, I have others." - G. Marx

                by Skeptical Bastard on Wed Jul 14, 2010 at 09:30:21 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

    •  Tell that to the guy in the white house (6+ / 0-)

      How we got here, the Powell Manifesto: http://old.mediatransparency.org/story.php?storyID=21

      by Paleo on Wed Jul 14, 2010 at 07:19:28 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I agree, sort of (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        beltane, Betty Pinson, A Runner

        I do wish Obama would attack Reaganomics by name and head-on.

        But to expect one guy, however gifted, to undo a generation of highly paid, highly skilled liars repeating the same lie over and over again is silly.

        In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice; but in practice, there always is a difference. - Yogi Berra

        by blue aardvark on Wed Jul 14, 2010 at 07:23:14 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  It's hard to expect when you don't even try (8+ / 0-)

          Reagan was in a similar position in 1981.  That didn't stop him.

          How we got here, the Powell Manifesto: http://old.mediatransparency.org/story.php?storyID=21

          by Paleo on Wed Jul 14, 2010 at 07:28:58 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  As I said, I want him to try (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            sherlyle, jfromga, coffejoe

            But there was no organized group of people defending demand-side economics in 1980. There still isn't. There's Paul Krugman out there on his blog, fighting the good fight, against a vast array of paid liars.

            In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice; but in practice, there always is a difference. - Yogi Berra

            by blue aardvark on Wed Jul 14, 2010 at 07:42:02 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  But there weren't a lot of supply siders (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              justmy2, coffejoe

              in 1981.  

              There are plenty others other than Krugman, Kuttner and Reich for example.  The point is that the corporate TV and radio media are beholden to a corporate friendly ideology.  A president, with the bully pulpit, can cut through that.  At least he can try.  But he obviously either agrees with much of that ideology or doesn't want to fight.  Or a combination of the two.

              How we got here, the Powell Manifesto: http://old.mediatransparency.org/story.php?storyID=21

              by Paleo on Wed Jul 14, 2010 at 07:51:48 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  On the other hand, that clique of (2+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                coffejoe, blue aardvark

                TV and radio media helped vault Reagan and "his" economics into the limelight.

                Reagan didn't have to fight them as Obama would, they were pushing him along.

                But, truth seems to be Obama buys into the supply-side dogma to some extent, therefore...

                •  It was a lot different in 1981 (4+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  justmy2, sherlyle, coffejoe, blue aardvark

                  There was a fairness doctrine, so you didn't have wall-to-wall right-wing radio and stations like Faux.  You didn't have CNBC, etc.  The media then was far less right-wing on economics than it is now.

                  How we got here, the Powell Manifesto: http://old.mediatransparency.org/story.php?storyID=21

                  by Paleo on Wed Jul 14, 2010 at 08:01:56 AM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  So it was his charming smile that got (2+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    sherlyle, blue aardvark

                    him all the good press and, from what I recall, and caused the press to flood the airwaves with right-wing talking points - e.g.: "welfare queens", "unions ruining the country", "high taxes crippling the economy", etc.?

                    I was 21 in '81 and was just starting to follow politics closely. Albeit it was in NY and NY has it's own vicious form of politics, but all I recall was the press bashing liberal ideas throughout the '80s, and even cheering (so to speak) Reagan destroying the union movement with one quick lethal swipe at the air controllers union.

                    There might have been a fairness doctrine, but the press coverage of Reaganomics was anything but fair. The press was buying into it hook, line and stinker, and feeding it to the schools of swimming guppies a.k.a. their substantial audiences at the time.

                    It was during the '80s that some very clever people started to realize they could consolidate the media and control the message. Things weren't different in '81, they were just getting started.

                    •  Talking points (1+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      justmy2

                      As the 80s went along, things began to change.  But if they were repeating his talking points, it was because he was making them.  

                      And not everyone was buying into it, because at the end of his second year he was under 40% approval and losing head to head matchups with Walter Mondale.

                      How we got here, the Powell Manifesto: http://old.mediatransparency.org/story.php?storyID=21

                      by Paleo on Wed Jul 14, 2010 at 08:25:33 AM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  Maybe I'm just a conspiracy kind of guy. (0+ / 0-)

                        But I say, if he (and a strong emphasis on "he" being the dolt he was) was making them, it was because he was being fed them.

                        There were forces working together to bring about the conservative change in the political landscape, to drive the Overton Window way to the right, that had been forming in the '70s.

                        He was either a genius, or a puppet. If a genius he led the movement. If a puppet, the movement was leading him.

                        BTW, how did that Reagan/Mondale election turn out? :o)

            •  Has it occured to you that this is possibly (0+ / 0-)

              intentional?  Remember, Krugman was demonized by inner Democratic circles.

              DFHs are always wrong in their eyes, when in reality, DFHs have been right over and over again.

              "Ultimately, we need to move beyond the tired debates of the left and the right, between business leaders and environmentalists" - President Obama, March 31

              by justmy2 on Wed Jul 14, 2010 at 08:30:33 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

          •  One of my greatest letdowns of Obama (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            blue aardvark

            Is that he has failed to use his speechmaking power to counter the GOP talking points on taxes and the deficit.

            The GOP is busy working on assigning blame for the deficit and economy to the Democrats and Gov't intervention in the economy when their ideas have been what caused it.

            Obama's failure to clearly identify the GOP ideas as the reason for our problems and to clearly define the issues and facts is a real problem.

        •  Good idea (7+ / 0-)

          Rather than semi-adopt the deficit reduction issue, they should be framing the problem in terms of voodoo economics, damage from tax cuts, etc.

          Then there's the elephant in the room called defense spending.

          There's no honorable way to kill, no gentle way to destroy. There is nothing good in war. Except its ending.

          by Betty Pinson on Wed Jul 14, 2010 at 07:55:04 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Shhhh. Don't want to appear soft on terrorism. (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            blue aardvark, asdfghjkl

            I heard there are some guys running around in robes darting in and out of caves that want to destroy America. I'm not sure $700 billion a year is even enough to defend us from them.

            I say make it $1 trillion! And if that means we have to resort to teaching our kids in dirt lot classrooms, so be it. We can't let the terrorists win!

            The trick for Democrats, and a sure way to win elections, will be to increase defense spending to $1 trillion a year while cutting taxes for the wealthy and, while we're at it, eliminate corporate and capital gains taxes altogether (to boost the economy of course, wink, wink).

            We have to think pragmatically, and cutting defense spending ain't politically pragmatic.

        •  Please, one guy however gifted? Show me something (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          orestes1963

          that he did as a community organizer that left a mark? Show me some paper, some legislation, some anything that the Constitutional Scholar wrote or passed.

          This guy got a rep just because people said he was the greatest thing since, well since EVERYTHING DAMMIT.

          And it was a legend built on smoke and mirrors. His Senate record is a joke as well.

          But thank goodness he has time to stop and campaign for his approved (as opposed to those who are REAL democrats)candidates.

      •  Ah, the guy in the WH wants deficit reduction (12+ / 0-)

        Bill Clinton bullshit all over again.

        There shouldn't even be a deficit reduction commission.

        It's sole purpose is to screw over middle class America.

        This is just another way to keep the rules of the economy rigged to continue to allow an unfair portion of the benefits of labor to accrue to wealthy assholes who sit on the beach watching their investments grow.

        "It turns out, by the way, that oil rigs today generally don't cause spills. They are technologically very advanced." 4-2-10 Obama's George Bush moment

        by neaguy on Wed Jul 14, 2010 at 07:36:37 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  Yep. Until the Dems actually start (8+ / 0-)

      to make a sustained and unrelenting argument about why government spending on PRODUCTIVE national investments is the solution, our gains will indeed be temporary and the Reagan revolution will continue to kill us - quite literally.

      •  shall we have a debate on what productive means? (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        rick

        5% of the stimulus went to infrastructure projects.

        Look an American voter in the eye and tell them that's the Democratic Party's idea of "productive" spending.

        "Those are my principles, and if you don't like them... well, I have others." - G. Marx

        by Skeptical Bastard on Wed Jul 14, 2010 at 07:52:31 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  OK, forget "Democrats". PROGRESSIVES (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          sherlyle

          need to make the case for what productive investment is (and I agree, that 5% on infrastructure, if true, is pathetic)..

          Democrats are a political party and as such deeply flawed. Progressivism is a basic philosophy-worldview that I strongly believe contains the answers to many of our national problems.

          So progressives need to make a clear statement about the importance of intelligent national spending.

          Now if anyone would give us a microphone...

    •  Lebron James Being Used By The GOP (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      sherlyle

      A guy on local radio was fielding calls from people that were on both sides of the Lebron announcement. Some thought it was selfish of him to avoid NYC taxes and go to Miami. Others thought it was smart to save $2M/year in taxes to play in FL.

      The host eventually made the point about what would provide better stimulus to their local economy.  Would it be paying $2M in taxes to the state/local?  Or would it be Lebron taking the $2M/year and spending it/investing it how he sees fit.

      And that's how easy it is for the GOP to frame the debate in a matter of seconds.  Everyone hates gov't so all the GOP has to say is "What's better? Rich people actually spending money?  Or the gov't taking money from rich people, taking a toll, and then spending their money for them?"

      •  Saw that BS (5+ / 0-)

        Ohio has some of the lowest tax rates in the US.  Its easily debunked.

        There's no honorable way to kill, no gentle way to destroy. There is nothing good in war. Except its ending.

        by Betty Pinson on Wed Jul 14, 2010 at 07:57:13 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  But Lebron makes $2 M/year (0+ / 0-)

        most of us don't but think we do...it is how you spin what the state/local does with your $2M in taxes. It shouldn't be hard but the Democrats are too worried about being Republican lite.

        How much pain have cost us the evils which have never happened. Thomas Jefferson

        by coffejoe on Wed Jul 14, 2010 at 08:14:56 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Well... (0+ / 0-)

          It's easy for the GOP though, that's the problem. Look at NY's state budget, pull out $2M in pork, and then say "Hey, that's where Lebron's money would've went".  Then look at Lebron's house and pull out 2M in expenses, and say "Hey, look how he stimuluated the economy".  

      •  it is silly.. (0+ / 0-)

        if anybody tells you this, tell them to look up Jock Tax.

        He isn't avoiding taxation.  The impact is minimal.  He went to play for a good team.

        "Ultimately, we need to move beyond the tired debates of the left and the right, between business leaders and environmentalists" - President Obama, March 31

        by justmy2 on Wed Jul 14, 2010 at 08:35:50 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Don't totally buy that... (0+ / 0-)

          These guys aren't stupid.  They know there are certain costs for playing for certain teams.  The Jock Tax doesn't debunk the argument.  You're charged income taxes based on where you play, but only for 41 games.  The other 41 games (at home) he doesn't pay income taxes.  

          We can't be totally naive here and think that saving $2M (or 1.5 or whatever) per year doesn't affect his decicion in the slightest.

    •  It's like W always said, 'keep repeating the same (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      sherlyle, coffejoe

      thing over and over and over even if it is untrue and eventually people start saying it and believing it".  It is the GOP messaging and it works well for them as it is all they have.

    •  Obama could (0+ / 0-)

      solve Middle East conflict, end wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, pass energy bill that doesn't raise taxes, pass HC bill, cut deficit in half by end of second term and, if the economy is where it's at, still come in at 40-45% approval.

      The MSM focuses so much on the supposed control the President has on the economy that essentially nothing else matters. It's really sad that this is how we gauge our Presidents now, esp considering this mess was inherited.

      Bush & Clinton's chickens are coming home to roost, in Obama's henhouse.

  •  More and Better Democrats (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    TexMex, sherlyle, ezdidit, Greasy Grant
    1. Filibuster Reform
    1. Reign in Corportate Influence
    1. GOTV

    Yes, Mr. President, www.yesweSTILLcan.org David Waldman says: Filibuster Reform Now

    by divineorder on Wed Jul 14, 2010 at 07:15:49 AM PDT

  •  why are we moving back to Texas? (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    sherlyle, ZedMont, DRo

    um, family?
    Cost of living cheaper in Tejas than the frozen north???

    http://www.c-spanvideo.org/program/206488-1 at 1:31:20

    by TexMex on Wed Jul 14, 2010 at 07:16:05 AM PDT

  •  it is and always has been (16+ / 0-)

    about jobs. the stimulus saved some 2 million from being unemployed, but krugman, roubini and stieglitz were right, all along: it wasn't enough.

    The cold passion for truth hunts in no pack. -Robinson Jeffers

    by Laurence Lewis on Wed Jul 14, 2010 at 07:16:40 AM PDT

  •  WHY do we continue to quote policy (5+ / 0-)

    polls as if they are helpful.

    Most polls show the split between job creation and deficit reduction.

    These are COMPLETELY diametrically opposite goals and the fact that regular people are spouting the "deficit reduction" line means that we NEED to lead on this issue, not selectively quote polls.

    We need to make a sustained, national, BIG PICTURE argument for why deficit reduction hurts regular people and helps the rich.

    We need a sustained, national, BIG PICTURE argument for why long-term, massive government spending in infrastructure and energy are our ONLY hope as a nation.

    I truly, truly dislike quoting policy polls.

    •  I don't know that they are "completely" opposite (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      divineorder, graessrj

      goals. In the early 1990's, some difficult decisions were made to cut deficits and by the late 1990's we had very low deficits, even surplus, combined with incredible job growth. Not saying that the cause and effect is clear, but clearly it's at least possible that deficit reduction and job creation are not "completely" opposed.

      •  An incomplete response by me, but (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        jfromga, coffejoe

        just to name two issues:

        1. China and India were still essentially asleep in the 90s. Global competition - and outsourcing - were not nearly the issues then that they are now. We need indigenous demand far more now than then.
        1. The era of cheap energy and dollar hegemony is quite obviously on its way out. We had better make other economic arrangements, and fast.
        •  I don't think either of those factors (0+ / 0-)

          make a qualitative difference enough to say that the relationship between deficits and job creation is now completely opposed, when it wasn't the case less than 15 years ago.

        •  dot.com bubble (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          DRo

          helping to finance tax revenues, wholly different economic picture, its before deregulation that created the huge rewards in casino investments on Wall Street, its almost 20 more years of a lack of investment in local infrastructure and modernizing rail, electric grid, etc. Much of which is over or approaching 100 years old.

          Its not the same world it was in Clinton's day.  Time doesn't stand still even if American politics and culture are attempting to regress to a mythical golden age.

    •  WPA project building windmills? (3+ / 0-)

      Why don't we -- right now -- have a big project building windmills, building plants to build windmills, preparing sites to host windmills, and converting as much transportation as possible to electricity?

      You'd think the disaster in the gulf would be a giant wake up call. We need to do something about it on a crash priority basis, AND we need to put lots of people to work.

      Why not?

      The invasion of Iraq was a war crime, a crime against humanity, and a crime against civilization. Prosecute the crime.

      by Positronicus on Wed Jul 14, 2010 at 07:34:56 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  But we had to waste a year on a crappy HIR (15+ / 0-)

    bill, don't you know?

    And now we have to worry about the deficit instead of putting forth a direct public jobs program.

    And what happened to all those people who said that once the Baucus health insurance reform bill passed, it would become popular?

    How we got here, the Powell Manifesto: http://old.mediatransparency.org/story.php?storyID=21

    by Paleo on Wed Jul 14, 2010 at 07:17:31 AM PDT

  •  A bad economy is better than no economy at all. (4+ / 0-)
    Between accusations that we are being enslaved (Bachmann), and warnings that Obama is more and more like Hitler (billboard from North Iowa Tea Party), I'm pretty sure I'm not voting for any Repukes this go-'round.

    But maybe some of you will leave it to Robert Gibbs to tell you what you should think...yeah, right....

    TAX THE RICH! They have money! I'm a Democrat. That's why!

    by ezdidit on Wed Jul 14, 2010 at 07:18:41 AM PDT

  •  Duh?! not surprised nt (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    divineorder
  •  Obama's reaction: (0+ / 0-)

    "Yawn.  Wake me up when 2012 is approaching."

    How we got here, the Powell Manifesto: http://old.mediatransparency.org/story.php?storyID=21

    by Paleo on Wed Jul 14, 2010 at 07:21:02 AM PDT

  •  The American public is incapable of rational (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    coffejoe

    thought.  They don't even agree with themselves.

    "A man of true science uses but few hard words, and those only when none other will answer his purpose..." - Melville

    by ZedMont on Wed Jul 14, 2010 at 07:21:37 AM PDT

    •  This attitude on the part of too many liberals (4+ / 0-)

      and progressives is getting through loud and clear to the American people.  It makes it so easy for wingers to paint Democrats as latte-sipping elitists.  Do you really expect Americans to support people who hold them in contempt?

      •  This is a stupid comment. (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        rick, cybrestrike, divineorder

        I know many Independents who believe Obama has not spent enough time on the economy and creating jobs.  And you are blaming the public for progressive thinking?  This is a stupid comment.  Especially, when we need these very same independents to vote our way in November and they are very salty with Obama and the Democrats.

        •  Iceberg, it is very popular in Florida (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          TLS66, jfromga

          for voters to have registered "Indy" over the last decade or two and all of those that were enthused for Obama (when I called this state for him early in the primaries-if he won the primaries) are still firmly in his camp and will be taking Gov. Crist to the Senator's seat too!

          Many folks don't like the howling from the fringes and are looking for rational thought in their leaders.

          Your constantly saying "Independents are very salty with Obama" isn't a generalized truth.

          To Congress: "GO BIG" or go home

          by mjd in florida on Wed Jul 14, 2010 at 07:51:11 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  The many here in Illinois (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            schnecke21

            that I talked into voting Obama, for 2 years, are not happy with him now and for various reasons.  But they are very unsatisfied with the Democratic congress.  That comment above to put all the blame on progressives is ridiculous.  People view their how their lives is going by what is happening to them.  If you have a small business going out of business because of the recession, they view things differently.  If you have that 45-50 year old manager given a pink slip and unable to find a job, their view is different.  If you have the rich hedge fund manager in mid-town Manhatten thinking things are rosy, their viewpoint is different.

            People vote on issues that affect their lives and what government can do to improve it or antagonize it.  That is what November is about.  And when you have people across the board who believe Obama has not done enough for the economy, what do you think will happen in November?  I am talking to people who looked me in my face and asked will the Democrats make a difference after being fed up with the Republicans.  Now these same people don't like either and that is a recipe for not showing up to the polls.

        •  What's stupid is having complete and total (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          mjd in florida

          contempt for the American people as the above remark shows  and then expecting them to rally round and support you.

          The American public is incapable of rational thought.

          This patronizing, condescending attitude is elitism personified and drives people away from progressive and liberals.

          What is so hard about understanding that when you call people stupid idiots you alienate them and drive them away? (And into the welcoming arms of Republicans)

          •  I am happy to do that for tea party supporters (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            mjd in florida

            and palin fans, but that does not generalize to independents, moderates, moderate conservatives, New England republicans, anyone who voted for John McCain, etc...

            "Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies." - Groucho Marx

            by Greg Dworkin on Wed Jul 14, 2010 at 08:03:26 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          •  Is there evidence to suggest (0+ / 0-)

            that Repukes are smarter?

            Don't these Repuke dolts suggest a return to policies that enriched the already egregiously wealthy through tax cuts for the wealthy without offsets to pay for them?

            That adds to the deficits they decry! I don't think people are that stupid.

            Am I arrogant and elitist to think that most people are smarter than to believe in trickle down economics ...again?

            Nah. The accusation that Dems are elitist is a sham. Sounds like trollish Repuke talking points. And to say that on a blog that openly advocates "More and Better Democrats, and not necessarily in that order" - THAT is arrogant.

            TAX THE RICH! They have money! I'm a Democrat. That's why!

            by ezdidit on Wed Jul 14, 2010 at 08:13:56 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          •  Please explain how a comment can be patronizing (0+ / 0-)

            and condescending at the same time.  I could have said something patronizing I guess, but I didn't.  I was painfully direct.

            This patronizing, condescending attitude is elitism personified and drives people away from progressive and liberals.

            If you think sucking up to people who make irrational statements to pollsters is a smart political move, then I would say you are the patronizer, not me.

            Concluding that I was referring to the entire American public ignores the fact that there are some rational people responding to polls in a rational way, as evidenced by the fact that the irrational statements were obviously not 100% of the poll.

            My use of "American Public" represents more of my own frustration with specific idiocy than it does an actual disregard for the entire population of the United States.  If you lived where I do and you couldn't find a radio station with anything other than this kind of nonsense, you might be a little more understanding of my comment, even though you would still probably patronize the idiots.

            By the way I wouldn't qualify as a true, 100% progressive, although I do admire progressives for their guts in standing up for what they believe in.  I'm a pragmatist.  But I'm not so pragmatic as to disregard irrationality for political purposes.

            Calling it like you see it will not get any votes out of flattery.  But in my opinion people who can be persuaded to change their political views will do so when they realize how irrational they have been.  I should know.  I voted for George Bush - twice.  Now THAT was stupid!

            "A man of true science uses but few hard words, and those only when none other will answer his purpose..." - Melville

            by ZedMont on Wed Jul 14, 2010 at 09:22:28 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Okay, I have to correct my own stupid comment. (0+ / 0-)

              Of course you can be patronizing and condescending at the same time.  That's what patronization is about.  It's just that I wasn't patronizing.  I was direct and to the point. Maybe I was condescending.  I suppose I was.  I'm usually condescending toward irrationality.  Character flaw I guess.

              There's a difference in disagreeing with someone who makes a rational argument you don't happen to agree with, and pretending that irrational statements are rational so that you can disagree with what you are pretending is a rational argument for the sake of not offending anyone and maybe getting them to vote with you because you're such a nice guy.

              I'll pass, thank you.

              "A man of true science uses but few hard words, and those only when none other will answer his purpose..." - Melville

              by ZedMont on Wed Jul 14, 2010 at 09:32:36 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

      •  Are you off your meds, William. How in hell (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        cybrestrike

        did you get to that idiotic conclusion? Link would help me understand.

        Yes, Mr. President, www.yesweSTILLcan.org David Waldman says: Filibuster Reform Now

        by divineorder on Wed Jul 14, 2010 at 07:45:11 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  So, it's a stupid comment. It also happens to be (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          mjd in florida

          my stupid opinion, if you insist.  I don't give a damn if you think I'm stupid or not. You aren't the first and you won't be the last and so what.  

          People who call for the very tax cuts that destroyed the economy in order to save it are - and I emphatically repeat- incapable of rational thought.

          Instead of slinging the word "stupid" around like tar balls, why don't you explain how that makes sense?

          By the way, who's William?

          "A man of true science uses but few hard words, and those only when none other will answer his purpose..." - Melville

          by ZedMont on Wed Jul 14, 2010 at 07:51:55 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  I was responding to this (0+ / 0-)

            This attitude on the part of too many liberals  and progressives is getting through loud and clear to the American people.

            This is conjecture at best, slur at worst when not backed with facts. Seeing similar versions around and they are just as silly as this one.

            You?

            Were you responding to my comment, or other?

            Yes, Mr. President, www.yesweSTILLcan.org David Waldman says: Filibuster Reform Now

            by divineorder on Wed Jul 14, 2010 at 08:45:17 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Since there were so many to choose from, I wasn't (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              divineorder

              responding to any comment in particular.  I didn't understand what you were talking about until you clarified it.  Thanks for that.

              I take it I'm not William.  Just stupid.  lol

              "A man of true science uses but few hard words, and those only when none other will answer his purpose..." - Melville

              by ZedMont on Wed Jul 14, 2010 at 09:03:39 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

      •  Amen. (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        mjd in florida

        From diaries advocating a benevolent dictator to threads that say Americans are too stupid for democracy, this is said far too often here.

    •  Itchy & Scratchy & Poochie (0+ / 0-)

      MAN: Okay, how many of you kids would like Itchy & Scratchy to deal with real-life problems, like the ones you face every day? (the kids all cheer and agree) And who would like to see them do just the opposite - getting into far-out situations involving robots and magic powers? (more cheering) So, you want a realistic, down-to-earth show... that's completely off-the-wall and swarming with magic robots? (The kids agree)

      MILHOUSE: And also, you should win things by watching!

      ROGER MEYERS: You kids don't know what you want! That's why you're still kids: 'cause you're stupid! Just tell me what's wrong with the freakin' show!

  •  I blame bloggers (4+ / 0-)

    filthy, whining, Cheetos munching bloggers!

    /snark

    This is what chump Change looks like.

    by Wamsutta on Wed Jul 14, 2010 at 07:23:03 AM PDT

  •  When you govern like a Republican, (13+ / 0-)

    you end up with their numbers.   I'm sure Obama and the Dems will conclude that they need to move further to the right.  

    Don't tax the rich, starve the poor.

    by dkmich on Wed Jul 14, 2010 at 07:26:29 AM PDT

  •  If people are worried about jobs ... (6+ / 0-)

    The last thing voters should want to see happen this fall is Republicans taking over the House. It is in the GOPs best interest for the economy to worsen heading into 2012. They have every reason to want working people to remain unemployed and unhappy heading into the presidential elections. Instead of finding common ground on economic solutions to improve employment, the GOP will spend its time on frivolous investigations of the Obama Admin to make the president look as bad as possible. It's going to be the Clinton years 2.0.

    •  Some lady told Coburn she hoped R's won (7+ / 0-)

      both houses of congress on C-Span this morning.  That way when everything really goes to hell people will finally realize the R's are "full of it" and Dems will be in control for at least a decade.
      She said she thought they were going to get one more chance, and that chance would destroy them for a long time to come.
      Hope it doesn't come to that.

      •  The free market works, sherl... (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        sherlyle

        Eventually, the impossible is inevitable!
        -----------------------------------------
        "There's a flaw...." -A.Greenspan

        TAX THE RICH! They have money! I'm a Democrat. That's why!

        by ezdidit on Wed Jul 14, 2010 at 08:16:29 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  I think there's some merit to that idea. (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        sherlyle

        People voted the R's out for "change" but I don't think many of them realized that it was the actual GOP policies of cutting taxes, imperialistic foreign policy, and class warfare, and deregulation that put is in the shape we are in.

        Meanwhile while they are out of power the GOP has been busy creating an alternate reality that the crash in the economy and deficit was really all due to things the totally powerless minority of democrats did.

        If they return to power, crash the economy again I do think they will get booted for a long time.

        However Reagan and the GOP were able to get re elected by just SAYING things were better so I may be wrong

    •  Some might say (0+ / 0-)

      sabotage.

    •  How did we get here? Again. Is it that (5+ / 0-)

      our party is making the same mistakes? We need change.

         * http://www.standfordemocracy.org/...
           Amend the Constitution to protect America from unlimited corporate spending on our elections by overturning the Supreme Court's decision giving corporations the same First Amendment rights as people.
         *Fair elections now:
           Pass the Fair Elections Now Act, providing public financing to candidates who are supported by small donors so they can compete with corporate-backed and self-funded candidates.
         * Lobbyist Reform Act:
           Pass legislation to end the overwhelming influence of corporate lobbyists by: prohibiting individuals from switching from corporate lobbying to government service, or vice-versa, within a 5-year period; stopping corporate lobbyists from giving gifts and providing free travel to government officials; and posting online the attendees and content of all meetings between lobbyists and government officials.

      Yes, Mr. President, www.yesweSTILLcan.org David Waldman says: Filibuster Reform Now

      by divineorder on Wed Jul 14, 2010 at 07:39:06 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  A very serious question.. (7+ / 0-)

    Do you really, in your heart of hearts, really think this is a messaging problem?

    Want to take credit for saving the economy? Do a better job explaining it. A majority (56%) think the stimulus didn't do anything.

    I would submit that this a seriously unwise view to take if you are part of the Democratic leadership.

    Results matter.  

    Obviously, the "We avoided a depression" messaging is clearly not working.  Add that to the "woe is me" messaging from the economic team, and you have a recipe for disaster.

    Is messaging really the issue?

    "Ultimately, we need to move beyond the tired debates of the left and the right, between business leaders and environmentalists" - President Obama, March 31

    by justmy2 on Wed Jul 14, 2010 at 07:28:04 AM PDT

    •  Yes (4+ / 0-)

      When one side begain saying that the stimulus failed before it was even passed, and the other offers basically no defense, it is a messaging problem.  Obama and Biden should be out there drumming the message in.  They're not.

      How we got here, the Powell Manifesto: http://old.mediatransparency.org/story.php?storyID=21

      by Paleo on Wed Jul 14, 2010 at 07:31:09 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  January - May 2009 - Yes... (5+ / 0-)

        Now, not so much...

        No messaging is going to change the minds of people who either don't have jobs or have family members without jobs.

        Until Democrats get it out their heads that they have a problem with communication, they will continue to slide.

        That is not to say they shouldn't correct their messaging problem, but that is not in and of itself a solution.

        My suggestion on that accord however would be an all out blitz showing the graph with job creation at the end of the Bush Presidency until now, and deficits under Republicans and Democrats.

        30 Second add.  15 seconds with each graph and minimal voiceover.  Billboards.  Subway ads.

        That is how you reinforce.  But that is not the goal apparently.  The goal is to attack the deficit apparently.  

        Oh well..

        "Ultimately, we need to move beyond the tired debates of the left and the right, between business leaders and environmentalists" - President Obama, March 31

        by justmy2 on Wed Jul 14, 2010 at 07:37:30 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  It is too late now talking about stimulus. (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        justmy2, wsexson, cybrestrike

        The time was months ago when the stimulus was coming up in polling as a bailout to the public.  What does that mean?  It meant that the public did not understand what the words meant, what was going on, etc.  It should have been renamed something else then, it is too late now.

    •  No (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      sherlyle

      not just a messaging problem A large part of it is MSM and their reporting. They give all the right-wing loonies the air time and, as we know, there is a monopoly on radio spewing the GOP message.

    •  actually (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      TLS66, sherlyle, DRo

      preventing a depression is a remarkable achievement.

      "Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies." - Groucho Marx

      by Greg Dworkin on Wed Jul 14, 2010 at 07:45:41 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I agree (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        justmy2, New Deal democrat, sherlyle

        but to average people its not a visible achievement.  The media actively hides it.   So it didn't happen.

      •  I remember a Bazooka Joe comic (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        justmy2, New Deal democrat

        from my childhood where Bazooka Joe is standing with his arms out and, when asked, said he was keeping elephants away.  When the guy asked if it was working, he said, "see any elephants?"

        Do you think he really got credit for keeping the elephants away?

        Won't work.

      •  Great..so the President should have (0+ / 0-)

        remarkable poll numbers right?

        Achievement? Yes.  The appropriate messaging and road to electoral success?  

        I would submit that you may want to reconsider.

        Democrats 2010 - We Prevented a Depression!!!

        U6 Unemployment at Depression Era levels.

        Does.Not.Compute.

        I agree with you, but you did not address my point, so let me put it another way.  If you convinced every single American that the stimulus was effective and not a waste of money, would that have any impact on the results of the election if the current economy remains the exact same?

        I think you know the answer.  It is up to you to determine whether you want to respond.

        "Ultimately, we need to move beyond the tired debates of the left and the right, between business leaders and environmentalists" - President Obama, March 31

        by justmy2 on Wed Jul 14, 2010 at 08:07:21 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  it is an achevement (0+ / 0-)

          but unless you're running against Bush and how we got here, it won't do much good. But I never said that's what Ddems should run on. You're going off on what you've already decided you want to argue about, not what I said.

          The Big Picture narrative (what we did, where we came from in 2008, where we are going), is what's missing. It could be very effective, but requires running against republicans. In that scenario, you convince people that the stimulus was effective but not effective enough, more needs to be done, and here's the plan for more.

          PS It requires a plan for more.

          "Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies." - Groucho Marx

          by Greg Dworkin on Wed Jul 14, 2010 at 09:07:30 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

    •  YES. (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      justmy2, cybrestrike, viet vet, coffejoe

      and I have been stating this since last year with the DISASTROUS response of the Democrats and WH on the demagogue of health care last summer.  Why do you think the health care legislation which was supposed to be the thing to carry us through November is a non issue?  We never regained control of the message and let the GOP run away with it.  Health care is a dead issue for November, the economy was always the issue with the public but this WH has just walked on by and they are paying a price for it now.  This WH is a total turnoff with kindergarten antics when it comes to communication and messaging to the public.  You are correct, the continued "we dodged the depression bullet" is not working when you have unemployment at 10% and many not working.  Many feel this is a depression NOW.

    •  What did the stimulus do for ***YOU***????? (7+ / 0-)

      The stimulus worked, it "saved" jobs.

      But how many people - including here on this thread - can point to even a single accomplishment by Obama and the Congress since January 20, 2009, and say, "That made my life better"?

      Contrast that with the New Deal.  Within a year of FDR taking office, people could point to their money being safe and insured in banks, several make work programs like the CCC that took unemployed youth and gave them jobs, and the Homeowner assistance program that wrote down mortgages.

      If, for example, Congress had been able to pass cramdown legislation, allowing millions of Americans to write down mortgages they couldn't hope to repay; if Congress had put 100,000 kids to work in a new CCC ---THEN people could point to how their lives, the lives of their neighbors, and others had palpably been made better.

      But if a majority can't say that, why do you expect them to re-elect you?

      "When the going gets tough, the tough get 'too big to fail'."

      by New Deal democrat on Wed Jul 14, 2010 at 08:03:05 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  THIS. (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        New Deal democrat

        And no messaging is going change what people understand viscerally.

        I was patient. I continued to say that even though I disagreed with the stimulus, the Administration and I hoped the backloading would work.

        Clearly, it backfired as it created the impression of stagnation, even if the result was good.

        Messaging was one of the issues early, and still is part of it.  But the impact of correcting that issue will be much less now.

        "Ultimately, we need to move beyond the tired debates of the left and the right, between business leaders and environmentalists" - President Obama, March 31

        by justmy2 on Wed Jul 14, 2010 at 08:10:42 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Right you are! Next up (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        New Deal democrat, sherlyle, coffejoe

        snip
        What the nation needs economically, then, and what Obama needs politically, is a jobs bill that invests in home care and child care, boosts tax credits for domestic manufacturing (this is, in fact, the subject of one White House proposal), and hurls money into infrastructure spending (the kind of spending that Republicans oppose least). Obama then needs his own Harry Hopkins. The new Hopkins won't be able to dispense funds as quickly as the original, but he must convey the urgency and zeal for cutting red tape that Hopkins brought to the New Deal's job programs.

        The heaviest lift, however, remains Obama's. The globalization (and the attendant overcapacity) of production and the long-term effects of the financial crisis mean that the manufacturing and construction sectors, which have provided decent-paying jobs to millions of workers and economic vibrancy to the nation, aren't likely to recover on their own. Obama needs to talk to Americans about the constrained economic future they will face if those sectors don't revive, as well as the benefits of more early childhood education and senior care -- and why the nation needs a massive government commitment to those sectors to recapture its economic vibrancy.

        With the enactment of health-care reform, Democrats now insist they have turned their focus to jobs, jobs, jobs. Saying so but not doing so will only bring down the wrath of the electoral gods. However arduous the task, they need to find their way to build a new WPA.

        Yes, Mr. President, www.yesweSTILLcan.org David Waldman says: Filibuster Reform Now

        by divineorder on Wed Jul 14, 2010 at 08:13:29 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  True (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        New Deal democrat, sherlyle

        Even the tax cut Obama gave people didn't register.

        •  Most paychecks are issued electronically now. (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          sherlyle

          If it goes directly to your bank, and you don't see the increase, it didn't happen.

          Issue quarterly checks via the Social Security administration or something, and people can SEE it!

          "When the going gets tough, the tough get 'too big to fail'."

          by New Deal democrat on Wed Jul 14, 2010 at 08:25:04 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

  •  Obama is invisible man on unemployment extension. (10+ / 0-)

    The most important thing in front of Obama and Congress now is extension of unemployment benefits to 2011.

    That was a priority a few weeks ago, now is not even talked about.

    It is a direct economic stimulus and helps those most in need of it and most deserving of help those who lost their jobs and for whom there are no jobs.

    Obama should be in Congress demanding action on it. Congress should not barred from any business until unemployment extension is passed.  

    We see Obama on tour doing nothing about anything, Congress passing post office namings while economy has a "slowdown inside a recession" with massive state layoffs and cutbacks, no jobs, and increasingly realization by public that we are in permanent recession.

    Obama and Democrats dithering and simply ineffective governing is going to result in massive losses for Democrats at the polls, and deservedly so. You'd think, even if they don't care about people or the country's problems, they'd have some sense of self preservation but they lack even that.  The 111th Democratic Congress will get one of those Darwin Awards for self extinction.

    •  As he is on a lot of issues (7+ / 0-)

      We see Obama on tour doing nothing about anything,

      He should be hammering away about the unemployment extension, defending the stimulus, and how the same Republicans who got us into this mess are now trying to get back into power.  Instead we get mush.  

      How we got here, the Powell Manifesto: http://old.mediatransparency.org/story.php?storyID=21

      by Paleo on Wed Jul 14, 2010 at 07:33:44 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  The President doesn't do demands (0+ / 0-)

      Remember, he is just one man.  He doesn't write laws.

      At least that is apparently the general theory promoted throughout this and other threads...

      "Ultimately, we need to move beyond the tired debates of the left and the right, between business leaders and environmentalists" - President Obama, March 31

      by justmy2 on Wed Jul 14, 2010 at 07:40:07 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Obama doesn't "do" anything is problem. (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        ssgbryan, icebergslim, Betty Pinson

        Was he on TV today hammering about need for unemployment.

        It would be the No. 1 most effective economic stimulus.

        It is the No. 1 thing needed by millions of working Americans who cannot find work in an economy that was not stimulated enough by Obama last year as Obama was told by Krugman and others. Obama knew best. As we see he did not.

        Obama is not into "No. 1's".  He's invisible and irrelevant.

      •  He does town halls but (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        ssgbryan, sherlyle, Betty Pinson

        those don't get as much press. Also, what can you do when NBC Today didn't even air FLOTUS trip to the gulf? They had Bristol's engagement!

        How much pain have cost us the evils which have never happened. Thomas Jefferson

        by coffejoe on Wed Jul 14, 2010 at 07:55:27 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  That defies logic (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      viet vet

      He stands to gain nothing by avoiding the issue, and can only improve his numbers by letting Americans know he cares about their economic pain.  The man needs to show some empathy, for heaven's sake.

      There's no honorable way to kill, no gentle way to destroy. There is nothing good in war. Except its ending.

      by Betty Pinson on Wed Jul 14, 2010 at 08:04:45 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Carly Fiorina is a jerk. She signed on (5+ / 0-)

    to tax cuts for the rich again!

    She trickles-down, pisses on us, and she tells us it's raining! This, from a failed CEO whose corporate leadership led to 8,000 layoffs and near bankruptcy for Hewlett Packard! So the board ditched her. So should California.

    Fiorina: Let me propose something that may seem crazy to you: you don't need to pay for tax cuts. They pay for themselves, if they are targeted, because they create jobs....We're getting ready to increase the taxes on capital formation. That's a really bad idea in the middle of a recession. Why are we making it harder for people to invest capital? We should be making it easier!

    This is the Laffer curve coming back to the fore: what Bush I rightly called "voodoo economics." Fiorina claimed Reagan proved this works, but that conveniently ignores the actual impact of the Bush tax cuts. George W. Bush saw nearly 3 million jobs lost during his time in office.

    How crazy is California? Fiorina: toast points!

    TAX THE RICH! They have money! I'm a Democrat. That's why!

    by ezdidit on Wed Jul 14, 2010 at 07:29:48 AM PDT

  •  Reasons behind poll are due to stimulus fail. (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    ssgbryan, divineorder, Betty Pinson

    Obama faced an economic hole the size of an Olympic sized swimming pool and he used a squirt gun (half empty at that) stimulus to try to fill it.

    That pool is still largely unfilled as he moves on to one more fail after another.

    Now, today,  he's on to the AIDs issue, with no additional funding (which is badly needed).

    Another fail.

    "It turns out, by the way, that oil rigs today generally don't cause spills. They are technologically very advanced." 4-2-10 Obama's George Bush moment

    by neaguy on Wed Jul 14, 2010 at 07:30:16 AM PDT

  •  But yet...we have a deficit commission (12+ / 0-)

    and the WH Political team thinks deficits are the issue du jour...because...well because they watch Morning Joe.

    The deficit ranks behind health care in importance. Right now, it's all about jobs.

    "Ultimately, we need to move beyond the tired debates of the left and the right, between business leaders and environmentalists" - President Obama, March 31

    by justmy2 on Wed Jul 14, 2010 at 07:31:11 AM PDT

  •  Good related article today by Robert Reich (10+ / 0-)

    It's All About the Wages -- Our Economy Would Be Fine If Everyone Made Their Fair Share
    When virtually all the gains from growth go to a small minority at the top, the result is deep-seated anxiety and frustration.

    http://www.alternet.org/...

    •  Americans are keeping their jobs or (7+ / 0-)

      TAX THE RICH! They have money! I'm a Democrat. That's why!

      by ezdidit on Wed Jul 14, 2010 at 07:35:02 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Accepting lower wages (5+ / 0-)

        is The Right Thing To Do, according to Repubs.  We're just being unrealistic when we expect to find work even close to the same wages, according to the R's.  That's why we can't extend unemployment benefits, see.  Because then people won't accept the New Reality.
        This is Republican Utopia.  Accept the fact that you're a member of a permanent underclass, and quit struggling.  You're rightfully ruled by your betters, and should be grateful they allow you to live in Their Country.  
        "The concept of equality is the greatest cruelty ever perpetrated on the American people" according to wingnut brother-in-law.  It keeps people from accepting their rightful place in society, and leads to dashed hopes and unrealistic expectations.  

        •  All evidence contradicts your brother-in-law (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          sherlyle

          from end-to-end!

          The Voting Rights Act of 1965 and after saw the greatest investment in education, labor and corporate expansion post Civil War into a previously backward, unstable, & racially segregated boiling pot. ALL southerners, white and black, benefited from new employment and economic opportunity which expanded in the south chiefly after 1965, but most white southerners want to rewrite that history.

          It's only racial prejudice and bigotry which proceeds right up to the present day.

          TAX THE RICH! They have money! I'm a Democrat. That's why!

          by ezdidit on Wed Jul 14, 2010 at 08:37:57 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  He's a Republican. (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            ezdidit

            That pretty much guarantees facts won't even put a ripple in his clear pond of thought.
            He really does think he was born to be my superior, and is entitled to all the perqs that come with that position in life.  

    •  Good GOD!!! If OBAMA could only read that (0+ / 0-)

      That article pretty much defines the problem exactly as I see it.

      It could be a manifesto for the Democrats if enough had the balls to speak truth to power.

  •  Operate words (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    sherlyle, prettygirlxoxoxo

    We also learn that 18% of the country is incapable of rational analysis - they think it hurt the economy.

    PAUL KRUGMAN: The triumph of prejudices over the evidence is a wondrous thing to behold.

    by mrobinson on Wed Jul 14, 2010 at 07:33:36 AM PDT

    •  operative (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      prettygirlxoxoxo

      Also, it's not just that the Dem leadership doesn't communicate well - they aren't clear in their own minds.

      PAUL KRUGMAN: The triumph of prejudices over the evidence is a wondrous thing to behold.

      by mrobinson on Wed Jul 14, 2010 at 07:34:39 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  TRICKLE DOWN is a LIE ! (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      sherlyle

      When prices are rising, like they were under Reagan, you can bitch and moan, cut back here and there, but you can still eat.

      When you have no job and no money and Repukes threaten to piss on you yet again and tell you it's raining, I get angry as hell.

      You can tell they're desperate to sell it too, because they also call their President (and your's) Hitler just for sport (North Iowa Tea Party).

      We will absolutely tear them apart in November if this is the best they've got. TRICKLE DOWN economics is

      F R A U D !

      TAX THE RICH! They have money! I'm a Democrat. That's why!

      by ezdidit on Wed Jul 14, 2010 at 07:43:56 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  These are the people who still think Dubya (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      ssgbryan, sherlyle

      was a good president.

      I have flow [sic] thru Detriot in recent months and the number of TSA women in hijab is alarming... the foxes are overseeing the chicken coop -- A RW blogger.

      by Kimball Cross on Wed Jul 14, 2010 at 07:44:20 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Ignore the 18% (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      sherlyle, viet vet

      You're never going to persuade or convince them of anything.  Ever.

      There's no honorable way to kill, no gentle way to destroy. There is nothing good in war. Except its ending.

      by Betty Pinson on Wed Jul 14, 2010 at 08:08:10 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  OT.....Bastille Day....okay to eat French Fries. (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    divineorder
    •  It's not just the obesity (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      divineorder

      problem, it's the fatty brain problem where propaganda has taken up residence in the brain and crowded out the rational analysis part.

      PAUL KRUGMAN: The triumph of prejudices over the evidence is a wondrous thing to behold.

      by mrobinson on Wed Jul 14, 2010 at 07:40:54 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  It's a messaging problem? (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    justmy2

    Here are some cliches for you:

    Close only counts in horseshoes and hand grenades.

    Winning isn't everything, it's the only thing.

    When the going gets tough, the tough get going.

    Winner take all.

    Sure, this is all American ego, but it is what it is.

  •  People respond best to anecdotal evidence. (8+ / 0-)

    They need to see family members and neighbors who have been out of work getting jobs. They need to hear about local employers adding more positions. Until that happens, the perception won't change.

    I have flow [sic] thru Detriot in recent months and the number of TSA women in hijab is alarming... the foxes are overseeing the chicken coop -- A RW blogger.

    by Kimball Cross on Wed Jul 14, 2010 at 07:40:54 AM PDT

  •  Obama has one golden wildcard (6+ / 0-)

    He could withdraw all the troops from Iraq and Afghanistan on October 15th and would totally save the mid-term elections.

    •  Announce a Peace Dividend (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      sherlyle, coffejoe

      Make the case that we can protect our country from terrorists without massive defense spending and loss of American lives.

      There's no honorable way to kill, no gentle way to destroy. There is nothing good in war. Except its ending.

      by Betty Pinson on Wed Jul 14, 2010 at 08:09:28 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Yes, and announce plans for Economic Conversion (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        sherlyle, Betty Pinson

        of Defense spending. Along with cuts we have to create jobs for those displaced, and this is hard, but indeed possible.

         Economic Conversion - new challenges and opportunities

        As Kos wrote on front page yesterday:

        Obama promised to begin pulling out of Afghanistan on July 2011. Afghanistan is already lost. There will be no difference between pulling out now or pulling out in a year, except to the several hundred Americans and coalition forces who will die needlessly as a result of that delay.

        He updated with poll showing Americans want out.

        In the 80's in Austin our grassroots group opposed by Democratic Congressman converted Bergstrom AFB to Austin Bergstrom International, one of the greenest in the nation.

        We can do this. Together, we can!

        Yes, Mr. President, www.yesweSTILLcan.org David Waldman says: Filibuster Reform Now

        by divineorder on Wed Jul 14, 2010 at 08:28:12 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  Why am I not surprised? The Bush years are...... (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    sherlyle

    have not gone away.  The culprits of our disaster are more profitable than ever and we are worse off than ever since the Great Depression.

    Don't the Democrats know the history of their name?  Do they know what a Demos is?

  •  Presidential Status Update (4+ / 0-)
    The US is beset by many simultaneous crises, all started by Bush/Cheney. War, war, recession, credit crisis, unemployment, environmental collapse both acute and chronic, corruption. All of which Obama has taken real steps starkly away from the Bush/Cheney path into them, many of which we've marched out through, if not entirely out of.

    The old politics would see the president explain all of that in the State of the Union. But the old politics saw Obama get called a liar from the Republican gallery, while he was told to shut up for disagreeing with the Supreme Court justices seated in front of him. And the next one is 6 months away, well after the 2010 elections. Besides, it's a speech to an applauding and partisan divided Congress and a formally idiotic corporate mass media.

    Obama should make a speech from the White House, though probably not the Oval Office, to an audience of regular Americans. He should talk to them (and, by TV, to us) about the condition the US is in. He should reference the crises that form the problems his agenda addresses. He's already explained that the energy/environment policies also affect immigration, finance and jobs. He should drive home what his Iraq drawdown, financial bailouts and Stimulus funding have already done to protect us from falling into the hell Bush/Cheney dug for us.

    Give Democrats something to run on for the rest of the season. But give the nation a status report for that hope we invested, that has indeed been paying off.

    This is precisely what Bush would have done, though Bush would have been lying - to a handpicked audience. The Obama presidency is as much a theater act as any other, and failing to embrace that role is to fail. Americans need theater. When the president dramatically tells us the truth, it's in everyone's best interest. Especially his own, and thereby the rest of us who need him to continue running the country instead of dropping it into the clutches of the Republicans and other corporatists who put is in these dire straits.

    "When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro." - HST

    by DocGonzo on Wed Jul 14, 2010 at 07:43:42 AM PDT

  •  I Didn't See A Poll On How Many Americans (0+ / 0-)

    want to repeal HCR.  I think that number would be very low.

    •  latest is from Pew (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      sherlyle, divineorder

      Bush/tea part numbers:

      "Do you approve or disapprove of the health care legislation passed by Barack Obama and Congress in March?" If disapprove: "What do you think Congress should do about health care now: let the law stand and see how it works or repeal the law as soon as possible?" Options rotated. Combined responses.

      7/8-11/10

      Approve: 35
      Disapprove:
      Let stand  7

      Disapprove:
      Repeal ASAP  37

      Disapprove:
      Unsure 4

      Unsure 17
         
      http://pollingreport.com/...

      "Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies." - Groucho Marx

      by Greg Dworkin on Wed Jul 14, 2010 at 07:53:14 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Is that a joke? (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      divineorder, viet vet

      HCR is what got Obama into this mess.  He should have appeared to be focused exclusively on the economy in 2009, instead of getting bogged down in health care.  Maybe HCR will prove to be a great decision in the long-term, but it was a politically boneheaded move in the short-term.   Also, this:

      Forty-nine percent of Americans now disapprove of the health care reform measure, according to the poll, which was conducted July 9 - 12. Thirty-six percent support the law.

      Americans continue to see little personal benefit from the health care reform legislation. By more than two to one, Americans think it will hurt (33 percent) rather than help them (13 percent). Forty-eight percent expect the reform to have no effect on them personally.

  •  Americans are in conflict (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    sherlyle, divineorder, PeakRaider

    How can 53 percent be for cutting taxes but 45 percent want government to spend to create jobs?

    Immigration reminds me of the Auto Industry in the 70's blaming the Japanese cars for all thier problesm instead of creating a product.....In Michigan you still get dirty looks and stickers that say buy Foreign to make your jobs go overseas....while the Big Three continue to go overseas...

    The medida is not helping they promote only republican ideas.

    The WH doesn't message well either. Yesterday the President said "Both parties agree we need Financial Reform" I think he should have said "The Democrats, me and three republicans agree..."

    How much pain have cost us the evils which have never happened. Thomas Jefferson

    by coffejoe on Wed Jul 14, 2010 at 07:46:16 AM PDT

    •  change priorities (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      rick, coffejoe

      less war, more jobs spending.  

      Less welfare, and more help for working people.  That one is actually irrational, because so little money is actually there, same for the less foreign aid.     That's ignorance and prejudice mixed with deliberate misinformation from the MSM.   A couple weeks of all networks (ignore cable, more people watch network news) explaining nightly where the money is, would see the polls change.   They will never do it.  

    •  Speaking of spending and autos... (0+ / 0-)

      Would the automobile industry be worth half a shit if all of that money hadn't been pumped into the interstate highway system?

      Some of these assholes can't see the hand that feeds them.

      It's better on top.

      by PeakRaider on Wed Jul 14, 2010 at 08:56:48 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  President needs to step up (7+ / 0-)

    Biden is supposed to do a presentation on the effects of the stimulus today, but that's not enough.

    Chamber of Commerce, the irony, sent a letter today saying the President isn't doing enough about jobs.  Of course, their solutions is not about creating jobs, but bigger tax breaks for companies flush with cash that won't spend it.   We need small business loans, aid to states, real jobs programs, and unemployment insurance continued.  That kind of spending actually creates jobs.

  •  Part of the reason for the perception (6+ / 0-)

    that the stimulus has failed is that unlike many of FDR's jobs programs (such as the WPA), it did not produce jobs that people can see.  Who can see all the teachers and police who would have been fired (And I fear soon will be as the stimulus runs out)?  Who sees all the construction projects that went through because of the stimulus?  No one.

    Then, on top of this perception problem, there's the fact the the stimulus program was simply too small to be up to the gargantuan task at hand.

    Add in the perception here on Main Street that we went all out to bail out Wall Street (they see all the fat and happy bankers), but have held back in bailing out Main Street, and you have one unhappy populace.

  •  Now The GOP Will Double-Down (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    sherlyle, PeakRaider

    On their intransigence. Between now and Election Day, they will try to scuttle every single thing in Congress.

    The Modern GOP: A holy pwned subsidiary of the Tea Party.

    by The Lone Apple on Wed Jul 14, 2010 at 07:50:22 AM PDT

  •  It's not irrational to believe that the stimulus (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    rick, divineorder

    hurt the economy.

    It might not be true, but it isn't irrational.

    Arguments for:

    Money has to come from somewhere. The so-called stimulus bill was not well-targeted for job creation, although, as in any economic enterprise, people will be hired.

    However, money spent on the stimulus wasn't spent on something else that might have been better targeted.

    And -- as is painfully obvious now, that poorly targeted stimulus is now hanging like an anchor around the neck of the administration as they seek to do something that might  more effectively spur job creation.

    Free speech? Yeah, I've heard of that. Have you?

    by dinotrac on Wed Jul 14, 2010 at 07:53:02 AM PDT

    •  Hindsight is always 20/20...nt (0+ / 0-)

      The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it -- GB Shaw

      by kmiddle on Wed Jul 14, 2010 at 07:59:06 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Didn't need hindsight. I was against the (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        divineorder

        stimulus from the beginning for its lousy targeting and the fact of doing one big bill instead of a series of smaller bills would lead to an ugly and ineffective mess.

        Posted to that effect on this very blog.

        Not that I was especially brilliant.  Lots of others made similar points.

        Somebody wasn't listening, or, more accurately, somebody didn't give a damn.  After all, they're the smartest people in the world.

        Free speech? Yeah, I've heard of that. Have you?

        by dinotrac on Wed Jul 14, 2010 at 08:04:38 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  kmiddle, that all you got? n/t (0+ / 0-)

        Yes, Mr. President, www.yesweSTILLcan.org David Waldman says: Filibuster Reform Now

        by divineorder on Wed Jul 14, 2010 at 08:37:40 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  The message as story (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    sherlyle, PeakRaider

    It's frustrating to me that the WH doesn't "tell the story" of the good governance guys vs. no government guys. We hate government so we wreck the economy.
    [vs.] We are stewards of the earth and servants of democracy so we train in good governance. We're good at it. They are bad at governing. We help each other. They help only the rich. We're in it to make a more perfect union. They are in it to get rich.

    Instead, we hear the how one side is as valid as the next, the 15 point analysis, the platitudes, the establishment speak. Who would have thought on election night when people literally danced in the streets in Seattle, that today our president can't tell a good vs. evil story? He can't even tell the story of what happened.

    PAUL KRUGMAN: The triumph of prejudices over the evidence is a wondrous thing to behold.

    by mrobinson on Wed Jul 14, 2010 at 07:53:51 AM PDT

    •  It's disgusting, isn't it. (0+ / 0-)

      Fuck, all they have to do is listen to Drew Westen.  That dude knows what's up.

      But they are clueless.  They have no coherent narrative.  And we will all pay because of it.

      It's better on top.

      by PeakRaider on Wed Jul 14, 2010 at 08:54:35 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  the morning media feeding frenzy focus on (0+ / 0-)

    Robert Gibbs telling the truth!!!! who wouldda thunk it!!!!

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/...

    No wonder the meme is that democrats will lose the Congress, haven't they learned to lie yet?

  •  I've been saying this for months... (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    PeakRaider

    And it's quite clear what the Republican strategy is...do everything they can to derail the recovery until after the mid-terms.

    The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it -- GB Shaw

    by kmiddle on Wed Jul 14, 2010 at 07:57:37 AM PDT

  •  The numbers reflect the WH agenda. (5+ / 0-)

    the WH is pushing deficit reduction and the austerity commission while actively working to weaken financial reform and strengthen the oligarchy.

    I guess they're winning?

    "History is a tragedy, not a melodrama." - I.F.Stone

    by bigchin on Wed Jul 14, 2010 at 07:58:51 AM PDT

  •  I know this might be a little off topic... (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    PeakRaider
    ...but it is related to polling data.  This is an article(<250 words) about recent Rasmussen polling data regarding Kansas governor's race.  I am not a statistician, but it may just be more of what we already know about Rasmussen's polling...
    http://blogs.pitch.com/...

    Hopefully one of you might find something useful as a result...

  •  Glad to see 65% thought (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    sherlyle

    it was a good idea to shut down drilling...however yesterday on NPR Obama new commission to find out what went wrong said they thought it was a bad idea.

    How much pain have cost us the evils which have never happened. Thomas Jefferson

    by coffejoe on Wed Jul 14, 2010 at 08:03:31 AM PDT

  •  Ross Perot (4+ / 0-)

    I really think the admin needs to put in some Perot like time with graphs and charts to explain the situation.

    Seriously both Reagan and Perot brought the deficit into the national consciousesness yet the Obama administration has pretty much laid back and allowed the GOP to convince people that they somehow have this plan where they are going to cut peoples taxes even further yet eliminate or reduce the deficit.

    I think the Admin would do way better if maybe Obama had a speech where he talked about the deficit and laid out some concrete ideas on the reality of any further tax cuts or spending cuts on the deficits.

    I just don't see any way we cut taxes and then cut enough federal spending to balance the budget without throwing the country into further recession AND cutting programs I KNOW the public is not into cutting.

    The public must make a choice. They republicans are telling them they can have their cake and eat it too and nobody in the admin is countering this argument or injecting any facts.

    •  Visuals do help (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      divineorder, viet vet

      and Perot used them effectively to make the point.

      There's no honorable way to kill, no gentle way to destroy. There is nothing good in war. Except its ending.

      by Betty Pinson on Wed Jul 14, 2010 at 08:10:53 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  But does the WH believe (0+ / 0-)

      I think the Admin would do way better if maybe Obama had a speech where he talked about the deficit and laid out some concrete ideas on the reality of any further tax cuts or spending cuts on the deficits.

      that? You need somone who has the conviction to believe tax cuts hurt us more because.....

      They give tax cuts to oil, stadiums, coporations but not really to us....

      How much pain have cost us the evils which have never happened. Thomas Jefferson

      by coffejoe on Wed Jul 14, 2010 at 08:26:34 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  asdf (0+ / 0-)

    What idiot made that better/same/worse graph. The times don't match the spacing at all.

  •  More proof that... (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    viet vet, PeakRaider

    Americans tend to be idiots...53% think taxes should be cut, when they're already the lowest in a half century?

    What good does a tax cut do to the unemployed?

  •  53% want to cut taxes, and (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    sherlyle, PeakRaider

    47% (mostly the same bloc) want to reduce the deficit.

    The stupidity...it burns!

  •  SPIN Alert (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    sherlyle, divineorder
    It was surprising (well, maybe not)that once again the media is regurgitating Right Wing (Newt Gingrich) talking points.  THey all spun the economic poll as the economy is 74% the same or worse.  Alternatively, one could take the same data and claim that 79% believe the economy is the same or better.  Level to up, in other words.  That's just spin.  In fact one could also claim that these sentiments have "normalized," in the sense that they approximate the numbers in the boom period 2005-2007.
  •  It's shocking that the administration (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    New Deal democrat

    is so utterly fucking incompetent when it comes to messaging.  Just look at the stimulus polling if you want to see the effect of undeterred propaganda.

    I did not see this incompetence coming from THAT group of people.  If there was one thing I thought they'd be good at, it was the messaging.

  •  It's the citizenry, stupid. (0+ / 0-)

    Most of you around here are pretty informed.  Probably in the 95th percentile, at the least.

    Your fellow citizens?  Not so much.

    That's not an elitist statement.  It's an indictment of our education system and media conglomerates.  It's hard to get things like facts and news if you turn on the TV.

    Most people aren't inherently stupid.  The culture and media just promotes it, and self-serving, oligarch-coddling politicians exploit it.

    You know I'm right, and you know it sucks.

  •  How created this mess? (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    DemFromCT

    Marist College Marist Poll. June 17-24, 2010. N=813 registered voters nationwide. MoE ± 3.5.

     "Do you think the current economic conditions are mostly something President Obama inherited or are they mostly a result of his own policies?"

     Inherited His own      Unsure
                   policies
     62%        28%     10%

     

    CNN/Opinion Research Corporation Poll. June 16, 2010. N=534 adults nationwide. MoE ± 4.
               

    "Do you think the Democrats or the Republicans are more responsible for the country's current economic problems?"

    Democrats Republicans Both equally Neither Unsure
    28%         41%          26%               5%      -

    link

    If you can't convince them, confuse them. (Harry S. Truman)

    by brainwave on Wed Jul 14, 2010 at 09:25:12 AM PDT

  •  The fallacy of the poll. (0+ / 0-)
    Of course most people are going to say the stimulus did nothing or tax cuts are the way to "fix" the economy.  Whenever the average person is asked about the "economy" its PERSONAL or what would be called Micro Economics.  My personal situation has probably not been affected much by the stimulus and a cut in my taxes certainly would help my personal finances.  But the Economy (at the MACRO level) is much bigger than me.  I am an educated middle aged man.  I understand a lot about economics but not enough to render an opinion of what exactly the affects of various stimuli have had on economy as a whole or whether tax cuts will fix it.  I rely on experts to give me that information and from what I have read that most economists agree (both liberal and conservative) that spending is the best way to resolve our issues.  If I racall correctly, I believe Alan Greenspan called the deficit problem an issue of REVENUE (not enough taxes) rather than spending.  A good arguement of letting the Bush tax cuts expire.  

    "Now watch what you say or they'll be calling you a radical, a liberal, a fanatical criminal" -- Logical Song -- Rick Davies & Roger Hodgson

    by Over50Lib on Wed Jul 14, 2010 at 09:32:26 AM PDT

  •   DEMOCRATS DON'T COMMUNICATE EFFECTIVELY!! (0+ / 0-)

    It is incredible that the Democrats allowed the repug-teaps' take over the national dialogue. Obama tried to carry the work load and deliver the message. It started last year with the rants against HCR and the emergence of the Tea Partiers. They were angry, and wanted their country back. The problem was that the dems didn't take the country in the wrong direction nor did they promote the economic policies that made the tea partiers so angry. Racism was a part of the Tea Party movement, but that could have been put in its place, if the dems had stood up confidently, behaved responsibly and recognized that the repug party  declared "war" on the president from day one.
    Tancreado said Obama was the country's worst nightmare, but it was the repugs who determined that Obama must fail at any costs and with him the country. And they did everything:outright lies, obstructionism and distortions to achieve that goal. With the Murdoch media empire and the corporatists as allies, the Repugs finally got their "coalition" of the Willing for war against Obama and Main Street America.

  •  Health Care Killed Obama and the Dems.... (0+ / 0-)

    I think the interminable health care debate was the nail in the coffin for democrats and Obama.  The majority of Americans supported it right after the election, now the majority don't want what was passed.    Of course the economy comes into play but the Obama I saw in action wasn't the person I thought I was electing.   And despite hearing campaign rhetoric about competition, there is none.  

    So I can see why people have lost confidence.  

    While I certainly think Obama can win in 2012, it looks like 2010 elections will be a disaster.  And while I'll never vote for Republicans, I won't put any energy into keeping the inept Democrats in office either.  

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