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I have a general 'rule of thumb', when writing a Diary: "Don't make it about yourself."

Today, I'm going to break that rule.

I work for a Govt Agency.  A database, software programmer ... who has watched our very able programming staff of about 15 ... shrink, dwindle, attrition away into about 5 or 6 "lucky ones" who still "remain standing".  

Five years of budget cutting projections, have met their goal -- however unmercifully.

AND in the "All Employees Meeting" I just left, the Message was once again, Still the Same ...

Doing More with Less
Rod Kurtz, Bloomberg Businessweek --April 22, 2009

Smaller companies are feeling the squeeze of budget cuts, reduced demand, and tighter credit. It has never been more important to do more with less.

Since labor is the largest controllable expense, integrating and automating management, payroll, and HR is a place to start.

Govt is feeling that Pinch too.
Funny how Management in both worlds, always thinks, It's the Employees that are the Problem!

I was sitting there quietly in the last "All Employees Meeting", smiling where I was suppose to smile, generally acting Interested, when the presentation was anything but.

But then the Agency's Regional Director, finally gets to the point, of the skit him and his cohorts had performed with gusto.  

Here's was his stunning Pep Talk: (roughly paraphrased from memory)

Regional Director:  Given the success we've had at meeting the Goals of the 2010 Project, we have complete confidence in YOU, you wonderful Employees of XYZ Agency, that you will be up to the Challenge of meeting our next Goal: the 2015 Project.  

We need to continue to reduce labor and operating costs, for the next 5 years. We project 6-8% Budget Funding CUTS per year, for the next 5 years, with an expected overall reduction in Operating Budget for our region, to be reduced by around $75 Million, by the year 2015.

But we know you wonderful Employees can do it ... to find even more ways, To Do More with Less! ... Because without all your hard work and dedication, we could have never accomplished what we already have so far, in reaching our 2010 Goals.  

We're only as strong as each and everyone of you, who's hard work and dedication helps us accomplish all that we do.

Good thing, I generally have "good self-restraint" in Public Meetings -- Because in my mind I was I was shouting:

OMG! ... NOT this BS again!  
Don't they KNOW were AT the Breaking Point, NOW?

PS. Note to self:   THIS TIME you really DO need to Find another Job!!!

I took a job a Career with the Govt well over a dozen years ago, precisely because I wanted to be "a Part of the Solution", and NO longer a part of the Problem, as my previous Fortune 500 [Defense Contracting] Employer so often was.  Even though that meant a significant cut in pay for the privilege of "public service".  And MANY more Bureaucratic headaches, almost daily.  A much LESS clearly defined career track as well.  Oh well, such are the sacrifices good citizens are want to make.

BUT that Pep Talk -- WAS the Last Straw for me.  It broke the dream.

The Sleepwalk is over, for me.

Since it's unlikely he will grow a spine, and say Hell NO! to the DC Office, perhaps our Regional Director of XYZ needs to refine his Employee Talking Points, a bit.  You know study up ... especially if he wants to continue squeezing Blood, from this 'last standing' Turnip:

Never Say "Do More With Less" Again
Phil Gerbyshak, EveryJoe -- March 26, 2008
This is a guest post from Michael Kanazawa.

There are a few sayings that we hear in business all of the time that are about as ineffective as parents yelling at their children, "do it because I said so." Even worse, these sayings in business cause people to make poor decisions and undermine their own leadership potential by repeating these phrases without really thinking about what they mean.

One of the most popular and most damaging of these sayings is demanding that people need to do "more with less." This one is being used a lot these days because of the tough economic cycle. The most common use is to try to motivate employees to stretch further when budget and headcount cuts have reduced resource levels.

The problem this causes is that people won’t have an ability to get it all done. But without a focus on priorities, each person may select different priorities across different parts of the organization. People are spread too thin and can’t finish any single project or task with quality and diligence. The result is what we refer to as corporate A.D.D. and it is a root cause of poor execution.

In short, the "Do More with Less" Policy, WILL eventually translate into dangerous Short Cuts, unexpected delays, and cost overruns -- in short, it results in having to "Do a half-ass Job", on almost a routine basis.

And as one who takes pride in my work:  half-ass quality work is unacceptable!
Yet it is becoming the Norm, as my blood pressure and stress levels continue to rise accordingly.  We ALWAYS run out of WEEK, before we run out of WORK.

These days, I have about 10 active Klugey, Quirky, Coding-Database Projects, with only about 2 or 3 of them remaining, where I'm the Original Programmer.  You know, the person that wrote the Code, the one who really knows the Original Business Requirements, has long since been "cost cut" out of the Staffing Picture. The Result: Fragile, Quick-fix Coding patches -- ie "hacks" are becoming all TOO frequent.  Adding more and more heavy sticks to that Camel's Bundle.

One programmer left, because he was homesick for his native Country;
One programmer left, because of a better job offer;
One programmer left, because of a Stroke from the stress;
One programmer left, because he was tired of mind-numbing Coding;
One programmer left, the traditional way, he was laid off;
Another key person left, due to a "Salary Negotiation" dispute;

And the one thing they all have in common?

None of them, was replaced BY ANY NEW HIRES!

That was all part of the 2010 Plan ... Cost-cutting anyway you can.  Cut the Fat. Cut the Staff.

Make the most of the Resources you got!    ie. DO.MORE.With.LESS.

(Otherwise known as:  Downsizing by Attrition)  Shhh! Don't tell anyone.

For this to work, those 'left standing' MUST learn to become 'Good Team Players' -- and BE WILLING to Pick up the Slack!  (the Slack of all those loser Full-timers, who are NO.LONGER.A.Part.of.the.TEAM.)

Whenever someone is NOT Replaced, I often wonder ...

WHY in the world were they hired in the first place?

If their Job is not important enough, to rehire for, then Why Not just CANCEL all the Projects, they were a Key part of?  They must NOT be important either, Right?

Most Programming Projects are typically "critical", or at least "important", to meeting the Annual Objectives of the Dept's Mission Statement (or they wouldn't have paid for them in the first place) --

SO why are Programmers, those mechanics who "make the car go" -- why are they treated like an interchangeable commodity, that you can just "Take it or Leave it"?  We'll just hire more, when we need them.

One "Data Jock" is as good as the next ... and they're all SO overpaid anyways -- who really needs them?  (an all too common refrain, in the CEO Cost cutting planning sessions, I've often heard about, over the years, from HR buddies.)

I should just feel LUCKY -- I still have MY Job!  (Oh Boy!)

[Continuing from the previous link ...]

In our book, BIG Ideas to BIG Results, we suggest a replacement to this old and favored saying of doing "more with less." We suggest that when budget or headcount reductions are necessary to first say, "we need to do more ON less," meaning more resources, more staffing, and more focus on fewer initiatives.

The result of this approach is a prioritization of the most important and high impact initiatives and getting the new levels of resources focused for delivering results on those top priorities.

Makes sense to me.   Focus on the Projects Priorities you MUST have, and do THOSE well.

You just can't keep Doing the SAME Level of Work, with the Same Quality as before -- Unless you keep that Labor "Talent Pool" FILLED -- Staffed up, with the necessary Tools ... to GET.The.JOB.DONE. ... Right!

If Govt Agencies and Private Industries, continue to pile-on to us overworked 'Team Players', with more and more of this Business-as-Usual Downsizing -- Well Something has GOT TO GIVE!

Those of us with the 'Legacy Knowledge', with the key 'Institutional Memory', who manage to keep those Key Projects running, and delivering:  Day In and Day Out

WE -- just might end up Walking away, someday soon!  (even geeks have their limits)

The system is that thread-bare.  the last few strands at the bottom of the hammock, are showing their wear.

There's Nothing Keeping me at my "challenging" Job -- EXCEPT my commitment to do it.

Project 2015 ... expect more of the same ... learn to Carry EVEN MORE of your own Weight!

Don't push it, accounting eggheads -- or you just might find out the hard way -- us Worker Bees, are NOT just an interchangeable commodity, Thank you very much.

When the Employees who keep it all running,
are gone, when we finally move on to less stressful Environs,
Well, you eggheads, will really end up losing a lot.  Trust me.

You just may ending up revamping all those Projects, from the ground up -- AGAIN!

(so much for continued cost-cutting ... cuz you'll be hiring me, at my "Consultant Rates", next time.)

PS. Thanks for letting me break my own Diary-writing 'rule of thumb'.  Returning back to Observational Reporting Mode, very soon.

Originally posted to Digging up those Facts ... for over 8 years. on Sat Jul 17, 2010 at 03:44 PM PDT.

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Comment Preferences

  •  Tip Jar (54+ / 0-)

    Doing More with Less ???

    How about instead having to

    Doing LESS with Less?

    Police Depts, both in Colorado Springs and Oakland CA,
    have said as much recently, due to Austerity Budget Cuts in their Budgets.

    Those Police Dept -- WILL No Longer response to certain types of Calls, including Car Accidents, and Home Burglaries plus many others.
    (per CNN reports, and Ed Shultz interviews.)

    Those Police Dept are calling their  New Response Programs:

    Doing LESS with Less

    How Appropro!
    I guess we ALL better start getting used to the New Society,
    that newly minted Deficit Hawks, have planned ...
    (as if, they have a Plan, lol)


    The press is impotent when it abandons itself to falsehood. --Thomas Jefferson to Thomas Seymour, 1807

    by jamess on Sat Jul 17, 2010 at 03:41:47 PM PDT

  •  Welcome to the real world n/t (6+ / 0-)

    Worry is the interest paid by those who borrow trouble.

    by curious bob on Sat Jul 17, 2010 at 03:59:28 PM PDT

  •  As with BP "cutting corners"--your company likely (8+ / 0-)

    will never see 2015.  

    Time to brush up the resume; and begin the long search.....

    It may take a year or more, but at least for now, you have a job.

    Don't let the stress get to you-----too much....

  •  This irritates me. (8+ / 0-)

    We spend billions on defense projects that the various branches don't want and cost over-runs that the contractors should eat, a failed drug war that's caused far more damage then it's target and ear-marked boondoggles that too often enrich contributors.

    Those are the government wastes that I want cut, not human resources.

    It might be time to start charging industry for the value they receive. Instead of subsidizing a BP, how about charging them for the manpower required to oversee them. Same for every other industry. If they can afford millions to lobby, they can afford to help out.

    "The human eye is a wonderful device. With a little effort, it can fail to see even the most glaring injustice." Richard K. Morgan

    by sceptical observer on Sat Jul 17, 2010 at 04:31:17 PM PDT

  •  Great diary jamess! (8+ / 0-)

    What if the hokey pokey is what it's all about?

    by Julie Gulden on Sat Jul 17, 2010 at 04:34:12 PM PDT

  •  jamess...well, you could write a book of (5+ / 0-)

    2-word line poems. I cannot believe that I am the only person so fascinated by them...  :-)

    I know how you feel. Just recently I did a huge project editing children's textbooks. I knew that I did a really good job but I sensed a little something from the project director. It's telecommuting work so no facial expressions. I poked around a little to try to ascertain the nature of this subtle vibe I was getting. Problem (of course, not defined as a problem...) was that I did "TOO GOOD" a job. And this is for educational materials for kids.

    Fucking shitty world. I'm like you, I care about the integrity of my offerings to the world, now we are penalized for holding that ethic--either by getting more work shoved on because the managers know we will get it all done or by having to listen to some second line jive about how wonderful the quality of your work is but...

    "O, what may man within him hide, Though angel on the outward side!" ~ William Shakespeare

    by rubyr on Sat Jul 17, 2010 at 04:59:15 PM PDT

    •  I feel your pain rubyr (6+ / 0-)

      This downward chase to nominal results,

      with only end up resulting in a

      Nominal Nation.

      (that last line,
      was boiling down,
      just for you, dear.)

      Quality Matters.

      Cutting Opportunities.

      Discarding Talent.

      Means Mediocrity.

      Lowest Denominator.

      Hopeless Sleepwalking.

      The press is impotent when it abandons itself to falsehood. --Thomas Jefferson to Thomas Seymour, 1807

      by jamess on Sat Jul 17, 2010 at 05:07:55 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Well That Was My 1990's. (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Julie Gulden, JeffW, jamess, blueocean

    Been working with dried grass, contact cement and other miscellany for half the income since then.

    At least there's some comfort in having dozens of "bosses" none of whom sends me to team building exercises.

    We are called to speak for the weak, for the voiceless, for victims of our nation and for those it calls enemy.... --ML King "Beyond Vietnam"

    by Gooserock on Sat Jul 17, 2010 at 06:17:12 PM PDT

    •  LOL that does sound like a nice perk Gooserock (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      JeffW, blueocean

      I just settle for,

      actually "building the Team"

      you know, filling the seats.

      thx, for the chuckle,
      sounds like you have a good gig

      The press is impotent when it abandons itself to falsehood. --Thomas Jefferson to Thomas Seymour, 1807

      by jamess on Sat Jul 17, 2010 at 06:22:00 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Victory Gin rations increased!!! n/t (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    Capitalism is the extraordinary belief that the nastiest of men, for the nastiest of reasons, will somehow work for the benefit of us all. - JM Keynes

    by goinsouth on Sat Jul 17, 2010 at 06:49:55 PM PDT

  •  You do LESS with less... (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    jamess, blueocean in point, my section. I work for the City of Chicago as a traffic engineer. When I started in 1983, we had about 5 engineers in the section, under a supervising engineer, and amanged to do signal timings, coordination plans, and signal improvement requirements without computers, just manual drawing and calculators. One guy still used a slide rule! He was the man who taught me the ropes on surveying a corner and drawing up design requirements, and had started with the City in 1954 as a draftsman (he retired an Associate City Traffic Engineer, BTW). As time when on, and our bureau moved, and the name changed, more intersections were signalized, but we eventually began to lose people.

    We now have 2,904 signalized intersections in Chicago, one Traffic Engineer V running the section, and three Traffic Engineer IV's under him, doing the work. We do less work now, since consultants design the new/modernized signals (but we have to review the plans), have only one car for field work, and a supervisor that is reactive rather than proactive, only responding to requests from the Aldermen. Complaints through the City's 311 system get closed if there's not enough information from the citizen in the complaint, and either the citizen did not give their name and number, or we cannot contact them if they did. In two weeks, I retire, with no replacement to train. In three years, the next TE IV retires, and our last one has 15 years to go after that. If the City hires onsite consultants (not a sure thing now, since money is tight between low revenues and the rest being tied up in tax-increment financing districts (TIF's)), my reactive, inexperienced boss will have to work with them separately from the two (then 1) remaining City engineers.

    We do less with less...

    Float like a manhole cover, sting like a sash weight! Clean Coal Is A Clinker!

    by JeffW on Sat Jul 17, 2010 at 07:22:59 PM PDT

    •  thanks for sharing your story JeffW (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      JeffW, blueocean

      Entire bodies of knowledge and experience,
      fade away into history, far far too often.

      I hate that reactive vs proactive dilemma.

      I want to fix things BEFORE they break --

      BUT the general operating principle is --

      If it ain't Broke yet -- then there's NOT a Problem, right?

      Drives me crazy!

      Kind of how the Nation, has gotten where it is --
      BY sitting around, Waiting for Things to Break!

      OMG -- it drives me nuts.

      The press is impotent when it abandons itself to falsehood. --Thomas Jefferson to Thomas Seymour, 1807

      by jamess on Sat Jul 17, 2010 at 08:25:46 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Well... (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        jamess, blueocean

        ...if the deputy commissioner who gave my supervisor his current position hadn't been looking for someone he could push around, I might have gotten the job (he had approached me first, but made no offers of a promotion, and our working relationship had already got off to a bad start). I'd still be retiring at the end of JUly, however, as I ha dpromised my wife I'd do so.

        Float like a manhole cover, sting like a sash weight! Clean Coal Is A Clinker!

        by JeffW on Sat Jul 17, 2010 at 08:46:45 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  Thank you Rescue Rangers (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    ladybug53, Hens Teeth

    for the Rescue!

    (thx to Unitary Moonbat, especially)

    appreciate it!

    The press is impotent when it abandons itself to falsehood. --Thomas Jefferson to Thomas Seymour, 1807

    by jamess on Sun Jul 18, 2010 at 08:32:09 PM PDT

  •  The rank and file gets shafted, while.... (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    ladybug53, Hens Teeth, jamess, dle2GA

    the top brass spends money on idiocies.

    At the company where I used to work, they decided that all the managers would go to a workshop. You know, the kind of thing where you play games and solve riddles?

    I got roped into this. I wasn't a manager, but I was a "professional" so I was ordered to go.

    We spent two days at a hotel near downtown Dallas that cost at least $250 a day for rooms for each of us. I have no idea how much the "seminar" cost, but I'm sure it was thousands.

    We spent these two days on utter absurdities, like trying walk up to a specific point on a wall with our eyes closed, "coached" by our fellow managers...or pinning "your personality is" labels on each others backs.

    I'm not kidding. I'm not.

    All I could think of was how many  desperately needed computers and program updates the money spent on this stupidity would have bought for the rank and file people who actually got the work done in the company....

    Freedom has two enemies: Those who want to control everyone around them...and those who feel no need to control themselves.

    by Sirenus on Sun Jul 18, 2010 at 08:38:43 PM PDT

    •  Managers spend WAY too much (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      time and money,

      inventing new ways,

      to make themselves,

      appear indispensable.

      I'd be happy if they just learned how to read Code,
      how to debug something, or

      How to interview the Customer/Client,
      for what their real Business Needs.

      In short, how to say NO to unreasonable demands.

      Their Paper-pushing exercises,
      only accomplish so much,
      in the Boots on the ground,
      (er, on the Hard Drives)
      Where the real work has to get done.

      thx Sirenus for the comment.

      The press is impotent when it abandons itself to falsehood. --Thomas Jefferson to Thomas Seymour, 1807

      by jamess on Sun Jul 18, 2010 at 09:08:54 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Good stuff - thanks .. (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Hens Teeth, jamess

    As an out of work, mid-level IT manager, it just amazes me (and, I think, anyone with any brains) how short-sighted upper management tends to be.

    Increasingly, virtually all work environments have come to resemble a real-life "Dilbert" cartoon.

    I have been very fortunate in the jobs I've had - several of them having been very rewarding. My outlook for getting another one nearly as pleasant is dimming.

    Write more - write more..

    Now, where did I leave my torches and villagers..

    by FrankSpoke on Sun Jul 18, 2010 at 10:46:10 PM PDT

    •  thanks FrankSpoke for the comments (0+ / 0-)

      What bothers me most,
      besides the stress of being overworked, etc.

      IS all the People, they could/should be hiring.

      It is the "LESS" part of their Mantra --
      as if the previously "important" employees,
      NO Longer matter.

      Just by coming up with a "greed-based" slogan,
      they can now just ignore the Unemployed/Under-employed segment of Society ...

      Like they don't even exist. !?

      Out of sight, out of mind.

      Not a healthy, long-term Business Plan,
      by any stretch.

      The press is impotent when it abandons itself to falsehood. --Thomas Jefferson to Thomas Seymour, 1807

      by jamess on Sun Jul 18, 2010 at 11:04:34 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  re-read reply - another thought .. (0+ / 0-)

        In case you're actually still checking old stuff.. :)

        The "variability" in the actual number of employees that it "takes" to perform some service/function is an interesting topic.

        The experience in my last job was enlightening.

        An infrastructure support group was in decline, with the most senior Admin having just resigned and leaving in a week. The group's work queue was hovering at just above one hundred assigned tasks for each of the 4 Admins. The manager (a very technical guy) was filling in everywhere at once (and sleeping very little), while being unable to make half his meetings. A gigantic co-location datacenter move was in the planning stages with (get this) approx. 900 servers requiring a "logical/programmatic" transfer from one site to another - over a weekend - and the only guy capable of writing the tools/code to do it was the over-worked SysAdmin manager mentioned above.

        I was interviewed and had the exact work history to take over the group. I entered the building at 9:30am and left at 4:30 pm with a verbal offer - we all agreed, a perfect fit.

        In the course of two years (with the successful datacenter move and one more similarly sized move under our belt), we hired people to grow the group to 7, and everything was humming along at a perfect pitch, with several business units going out of their way to compliment the Admin group (we also had an amazingly sophisticated infrastructure that allowed us to support 2000+ servers with 7 people) and our ability to quickly respond to problems and new requests. My manager (probably the sharpest manager/IT guy I ever encountered) said to me, "We are finally at the point that I can begin addressing the longer-term strategies that will solidify our ability to both anticipate and recover from the worst-case scenarios that any business unit or fate can throw at us." I never felt so thoroughly pleased with the progress and structure to which I had contributed.

        Within 2 months of the above, a media conglomerate bought the company. I was laid off just prior to that (gotta make the books look good).  Within a year, the group is down to 5, my manager resigned (too much infighting), and 3 other mid-level-peer managers were laid off. Some of the most sophisticated (and truly advanced) tools available to the employees were replaced with antiques due to incompatibility with the television-era parent company.

        I occasionally speak to some of the team - they now refer to the pre-conglomerate times as the good old days. They say they do everything by the book, the chaos is constant and nobody really cares about their work anymore.

        The number of people you need to perform work varies incredibly. The morale of the workers, the quality of the result and the amount of satisfaction derived from each day requires a delicate balance of just-adequate staffing and foresight from upper management with middle managers that "push back" as much upward as downward to keep everyone honest. And just when you think you're getting somewhere, the whole playing field tilts, and all the pieces scatter onto the floor.

        I never understood why anyone would want to own their own company, but after watching the BS level rise to swamp so much genuinely positive effort to enable improvement "for the providers of services AND their clients", I'm beginning to see it.

        That cycle, reinforced by corporate short-sightedness, really is a soul-draining experience.

        Now, where did I leave my torches and villagers..

        by FrankSpoke on Wed Jul 21, 2010 at 02:51:23 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  Ooo, I usually think of Ayn Rand as an idiot (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    If Govt Agencies and Private Industries, continue to pile-on to us overworked 'Team Players', with more and more of this Business-as-Usual Downsizing -- Well Something has GOT TO GIVE!

    Those of us with the 'Legacy Knowledge', with the key 'Institutional Memory', who manage to keep those Key Projects running, and delivering:  Day In and Day Out

    WE -- just might end up Walking away, someday soon!  (even geeks have their limits)

    Objectivism used to screw the "free market"?

    I kinda like it.

    •  Thanks for that Observation (0+ / 0-)

      Hadn't really realized, I had done that --

      BUT now that you mention it ... lol

      appreciate the feedback, webgiant

      The press is impotent when it abandons itself to falsehood. --Thomas Jefferson to Thomas Seymour, 1807

      by jamess on Mon Jul 19, 2010 at 03:26:53 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  At least he didn't say that you are all family. (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    jamess, dle2GA

    Families don't downsize or rebalance.

    Medicare for All. End Age Discrimination.

    by Hens Teeth on Mon Jul 19, 2010 at 01:18:47 AM PDT

  •  We need to get in the postition we can (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    jamess, dle2GA

    walk away.

    Would it be legal to have a group work together, for instance, X does lawn work for  and in xchange Y cuts Xs' hair?  No money is exchanged.

    We didn't say Wealth Care, we said Health Care

    by relentless on Mon Jul 19, 2010 at 05:23:46 AM PDT

  •  Excellent diary--sorry I missed rec'ing (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    Even though I'm "out of the business" (staying home with kids) right now, I worked in manufacturing for years and this "Do more with less" has been around a long time there, and it just got worse every year.  I am eyeing a return, though, and the new buzzword is "Lean" manufacturing.  I had to look it up since I'm out of the loop, and basically it is a new word for the same old concepts that have been around for a long time.  In and of themselves, they are not bad concepts, but too often as you said, the "easiest" fix is to get rid of people vs. anyone's pet project or vs. making true, systemic changes in the work processes.

    I promise that when I get back in the workforce, I'll focus on "Do More ON Less"--invaluable advice!

    Thanks for breaking your diary rule--this was important to share.

    •  Thanks for taking the time to comment dle2GA (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      Glad you found this helpful.

      the whole concept, reminds me,

      of a blind race to the bottom, now.

      Thanks for the Tip about "Lean" --
      I'll be looking for that one, lol.

      good luck, on "getting back in",
      its a rough landing most times.

      Hope you find a Quality-based employer.

      The press is impotent when it abandons itself to falsehood. --Thomas Jefferson to Thomas Seymour, 1807

      by jamess on Mon Jul 19, 2010 at 03:24:11 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

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