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A very fair contention arising from the Shirley Sherrod affair is the idea that the President isn’t as in harmony with the issues of Black America as he once was or appeared to be.  Not that he doesn’t care or isn’t sensitive, but it appears as if issues that should be no brainers to many Black Americans escape his normally razor sharp ability to recognize.

Join me after the fold for some discussion

As Maureen Dowd quoted Congressman James Clyburn from her thanks white lady but no thanks column in the New York Times on Sunday the 25th

"I don’t think a single black person was consulted before Shirley Sherrod was fired — I mean c’mon, "

"The president’s getting hurt real bad," Clyburn told me. "He needs some black people around him." He said Obama’s inner circle keeps "screwing up" on race: "Some people over there are not sensitive at all about race. They really feel that the extent to which he allows himself to talk about race would tend to pigeonhole him or cost him support, when a lot of people saw his election as a way to get the issue behind us. I don’t think people elected him to disengage on race. Just the opposite."

Link to the Maureen Dowd's NYT concern trolling

Photobucket

It occurs to me at one time the President had such a resource, but America wouldn’t allow him to have it.  It occurs to me that resource was stolen from the President in the same manner as Shirley Sherrod had her good name and reputation stolen from her with a 3 minute clipping edited in such a way as to make the person appear like a Black racist.   That clip was then fed to America’s Radio Rwanda Fox News for injection into the national blood stream.   That resource was the Reverend Doctor Jeremiah Alvesta Wright Jr.

For those who are not of faith or in particular not a member of a predominately Black Church it’s difficult to explain the relationship one has with ones Pastor.  Historically it has always been our religious leaders at the forefront for the causes of equal justice and economic outcomes for Black people.  It can be no surprise considering even today those who are thought to speak for the Black community have Reverend before their names Al Sharpton or Jesse Jackson.  The Reverend Wright could easily be mentioned in that sentence.  

On another level though there is one thing that access to a Pastor has that no other advisor on earth can offer.  The Pastors primary and overriding concern is not that you be elected President, it is not that you gain financial reward, it is his goal to get you into heaven.  It is his goal to see that you are always morally grounded it is his job to see that you always do right.

I have a man right now who I could call at any time of day or night a man that I know would give me the straight answer or at least guide my thinking in an honest way as to the right and wrong of anything in the Reverend Lucious Smith of the First Baptist Church of Pasadena.  He would not hesitate to tell me I’m a politician and I do what politicians do and I’m here to keep you honest I’ll see that you are answerable, or as a salesperson your first duty is to your client and not your profit and even though you could earn that extra bit there are higher standards to hold yourself to.

There is a reason why the President is reacting like this, and it’s because we poked one of his eyes out.  We took away a base he had relied upon to discuss issues like this for over 20 years.  

When the Obama’s gave up their church home I felt real pain for them.  For we Black people of faith a church is more than a place of worship it is a home, a lodge, one of the only places where we can be free to commune and organize.  That’s why it is such an attractive target for racist bomb throwers.

I for one knew what sort of handicap the President would feel when he decided to give up his relationship with the Rev. Wright.  I know had Fox News not destroyed that relationship he would have called his pastor, and I have to think he knew who Shirley Sherrod was if he didn't I'm very sure he would have asked the president to give the Black lady the benefit of the doubt.  If the President hadn't sought his advice I'm sure the Reverend would have had his direct number and the ability to call, mine does.  When Officer Crowley told his lie and got a beer summit out of it I’m confident that Rev. Wright would have had him say a few more things about lying police before he sat down to drink with them.

I do not believe the President was in anyway responsible for the decisions surrounding requesting Shirley Sherrod to resign, however he was briefed.  He did say he agreed with Secretary Vilsack’s decision to request her resignation, and he did say he supported it.  People say they would like to see an "angry" black president from time to time.  Maybe the reason we don't see that sort of passion is we took away the source of that passions fuel, and for that I lament.

Picket Fox August 28th!  Do not let Glenn Beck's attempt to steal the legacy of Martin Luther King go unanswered!

Originally posted to An Adept's Journey on Mon Jul 26, 2010 at 08:22 AM PDT.

Poll

Would a healing between Obama and Wright be positive

9%7 votes
19%14 votes
19%14 votes
2%2 votes
0%0 votes
16%12 votes
5%4 votes
8%6 votes
16%12 votes

| 71 votes | Vote | Results

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Comment Preferences

  •  Getting race relations advice from Fox News (16+ / 0-)

    is like asking a guillotine operator for advice on neck pain.

  •  Rev Wright (10+ / 0-)

    threw the President under the bus with all his grandstanding his his awful speech to the Press Club.

    The guy's ego got out of control becuase of all the attention he was getting.

    Jerry Brown for CA_GOV 2010

    by GlowNZ on Mon Jul 26, 2010 at 08:25:27 AM PDT

    •  That is utter nonsense (13+ / 0-)

      If you mean by under the bus he said he was a politician that did as politicians do, yeah he said and the president needs to hear it.  If you think that he is somehow obligated to be a campaign surrogate you're wrong.  He's obligated to see the President get into heaven and the actions that takes sometimes are bad for the polls.  The President needs that and your assumptions about his ego and need for attention etc. are insulting.

      Fox News is America's Radio Rwanda. Picket Fox 8/28/10

      by Adept2u on Mon Jul 26, 2010 at 08:27:35 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  No, I agree with GlowNZ - and I'm a fan of Wright (6+ / 0-)

        I actually agree with Glow that what Wright did was throw gasoline on the fire by escalating a situation that he could have healed.

        Wright's mistrust of government is healthy, well-placed, reality-based, etc.  But it is disconsonant with what President Obama is trying to do.  For that reason, Wright might be able to speak to the media issues, the lies, the deceit, the sugar-coating, and the pursuit of economic growth at the expense of "the little people".

        But I agree that Wright threw Obama under the bus.

        Full Disclosure: I am not Ben Leming. But I think he's pretty cool.

        by Benintn on Mon Jul 26, 2010 at 08:51:31 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  What did he say that placed the President (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          mallyroyal

          under the bus?  I'm going to assume you mean the press club interview.  What was it again that he said that bussed the president?  About the only thing I might agree with was when he said the President was "just a politician doing what politicians do"  now to me that was a statment of fact.  The next line when he said I'll be here to keep him honest made me say good.  What did you think?

          Fox News is America's Radio Rwanda. Picket Fox 8/28/10

          by Adept2u on Mon Jul 26, 2010 at 09:02:41 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  This Narrative of (12+ / 0-)

            The Rev. Wright harming President Obama never ceases to amaze me.  The President denies categorically having been paying attention in church for 20 years to the man that HE CHOSE to marry him and baptize his kids.  He publicly disses his minister - which as you know is just one step below him dissing his mama.  Thank you for at least trying to explain why that was not a small deal to African-Americans even as most forgave President Obama for the sake of moving forward.  Even those that loved him beyond belief still shook their heads (same as their reaction to last week's debacle.)

            Yet it's Rev. Wright who is at fault because having had that thrown at him, he didn't completely bite his tongue off merely for the sake of getting President Obama elected.

            I tried to tell people at the time that the Rev. Wright situation was not only overblown, President Obama' response to it was pandering to the worst of white racist sensibilities (those on the Left as well as on the right) and empowering the narrative that you could not be "too Black, too strong" and still be seen as fit to lead this nation.  Fast forward two years, and we are seeing the strange fruit of that initial decision, with a too long line of folks (Black or Black-led) whose back the Administration did not have similarly because of the potential for "fallout."

            Those of us who tried to raise the alarm about this at the time were shot down.  Just as folks who are naysaying your very gentle point in this diary are trying to shoot you down too.  This diary is good because it highlights that there was also likely a personal cost to that strategic decision for the President:  one that is hampering the Administration's ability to stand tall and fight, for one of our own.

            If you don't stand for something, you will go for anything. Visit Maat's Feather

            by shanikka on Mon Jul 26, 2010 at 09:20:49 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Dang I wish I was you! (5+ / 0-)

              shanikka there are a few folks around here who seem to get me.  You are dang sure one of them.  If there is a comment that encapsulates what I was trying to say this is it.

              Fox News is America's Radio Rwanda. Picket Fox 8/28/10

              by Adept2u on Mon Jul 26, 2010 at 09:25:43 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

            •  You have taken the argument a step deeper, (6+ / 0-)

              and I can agree with you here.  Thanks for the background on the Wright controversy--I had completely missed the subtlety of that, but your words sure ring true.

              I read the diarist as speaking practically, in terms of having Wright to talk to.  I read your comment as saying that the calculations in Obama that prevented him from standing with Wright are the same ones that continue to hurt him.  It's precisely the same inclinations that so many of us liberals find frustrating, to put it mildly.

              One must stand up to bullies.  I know Obama has it in him--I can sense his power and strength of character.  Why he doesn't do it more, I can't make out.

              Don't believe everything you think.

              by geomoo on Mon Jul 26, 2010 at 09:29:15 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

            •  Would you acknowledge that you don't speak (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              mallyroyal

              for all African Americans, but rather represent your own point of view?  Your statement seems very broad.

              "Because I am a river to my people."

              by lordcopper on Mon Jul 26, 2010 at 09:32:41 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

            •  sorry shanikka but fuck that (4+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              GN1927, angeleyes, sherijr, Adept2u

              I remember when my mom got some notoriety for rising up to stop a cigarette company from marketing to black people here in philly.

              due to that notoriety she was asked to come on a host of national news programs.

              only thing was... she'd invariably have to be on there opposite some black flack from the tobacco lobby.  because RACE was the issue, don'tcha know.  and america loves to see the darkies fight.

              she REFUSED 'cause she wasn't gonna be propped up as some gladiator style fight between blacks while mainstream america sat back, pointed and laughed.  the issue was bigger than that flack betraying the community for her.  the issue was one of SOLIDARITY.  even though she couldn't stand what the other person stood for, she would say so in private, rather than be a sideshow.

              not your boy rev. wright.  I can't respect the way he let his ego handle that.  again, for me the issue was way bigger than one person's hurt.

              all that said... I was right there with you as regards the reverend till that press club thing.  "our marching bands go like THIS!  ya'lls' go like THAT!" fuck outta here with that clown shit rev, we're trying to make history.

              "It's baffling when the netroots bash Obama" ~Van Jones, 7/23/10

              by mallyroyal on Mon Jul 26, 2010 at 09:46:07 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  Something to Think About (5+ / 0-)

                Thank you for sharing your mother's experience.

                Solidarity requires more than holding one's tongue just because someone is Black.  I am the first to understand the fear of airing our disputes outside the family too much -- after all I was raised that way too.  But your mother is a private figure.  She did not volunteer to have her entire life on the public stage.

                She did not run for President aka Leader of the Free World, as her full-time job merely by standing up to local racism.

                We are therefore not talking about the same thing, here.  You may perceive it as such.  But it isn't.  He is the public face for us faceless millions, as much as anything else.  By choice.  We didn't draft him to run.  He volunteered.  And he's not a fool, so he knew that in our country, at this time, racism was going to be a central issue associated with his tenure.  With the admittedly unfair heightened responsibility that brings with it.  And he is not showing that we are deserving of going to bat for, even if white people don't like it.  That's reinforcing a narrative that we are lesser, we are undeserving, and we are not worth fighting for unless we are pleasing to white people.

                The rule against washing our dirty linen in public should not reach that low.  Because if it does, we are all collectively fucked no matter who the President is.

                If you don't stand for something, you will go for anything. Visit Maat's Feather

                by shanikka on Mon Jul 26, 2010 at 10:03:12 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  to ME (4+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  GN1927, sherijr, Adept2u, kid funkadelic

                  the stakes were too high for relaxation of that 'rule' in 07-08.  special circumstances.  same way I don't call jackie robinson a 'tom' for not speaking loudly out about racism his first years in the league.

                  "It's baffling when the netroots bash Obama" ~Van Jones, 7/23/10

                  by mallyroyal on Mon Jul 26, 2010 at 10:08:11 AM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                •  the pres. is also (3+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  GN1927, kid funkadelic, Tulips

                  the public face of the millions NOT like us.  and even the ones who fear and loathe us.

                  thats the dilemma, IMO.

                  "It's baffling when the netroots bash Obama" ~Van Jones, 7/23/10

                  by mallyroyal on Mon Jul 26, 2010 at 10:19:51 AM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                •  I will forever wonder what would have happened... (0+ / 0-)

                  if this President had used his brilliance of oratory and had taken to his political pulpit and addressed this head on.

                  What would have happened if he'd given a barn burner speech on racism in a "Then and Now" format?

                  What if he had used as a primary example the following:

                  Tea Party Protests: 'Ni**er,' 'Fa**ot' Shouted At Members Of Congress
                  03-20-10 04:56 PM  

                  Preceding the president's speech to a gathering of House Democrats, thousands of protesters descended around the Capitol to protest the passage of health care reform. The gathering quickly turned into abusive heckling, as members of Congress passing through Longworth House office building were subjected to epithets and even mild physical abuse.

                  A staffer for Rep. James Clyburn (D-S.C.) told reporters that Rep. Emanuel Cleaver (D-Mo.) had been spat on by a protestor. Rep. John Lewis (D-Ga.), a hero of the civil rights movement, was called a 'ni--er.' And Rep. Barney Frank (D-Mass.) was called a "faggot," as protestors shouted at him with deliberately lisp-y screams. Frank, approached in the halls after the president's speech, shrugged off the incident.

                  But Clyburn was downright incredulous, saying he had not witnessed such treatment since he was leading civil rights protests in South Carolina in the 1960s.

                  I wonder, as one who lived through those horrible years of the Civil Rights movement, how President Obama can ignore this simple and powerful truth:

                  Cowardice asks the question - is it safe?

                  Expediency asks the question - is it politic?

                  Vanity asks the question - is it popular?

                  But conscience asks the question - is it right?

                  And there comes a time when one must take a position that is neither safe, nor politic, nor popular; but one must
                  take it because it is right.

                  ~Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.

                  Shirley Sherrod it seems to me has lived her live by this adage.

                  "The first step towards madness is to think oneself wise." ~Fernando de Rojas

                  by Annalize5 on Mon Jul 26, 2010 at 11:12:36 AM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  surely you know (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    Annalize5

                    that the great Dr. King was considered "cowardly" AT THE TIME by some members of the Black community, who preferred a more in-your-face firebrand approach.  like that taken by stokely carmichael.  or malcolm.

                    so the quote is doubly ironic considering the context of the discussion to me.

                    "It's baffling when the netroots bash Obama" ~Van Jones, 7/23/10

                    by mallyroyal on Mon Jul 26, 2010 at 12:25:48 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  Reverend Wright spoke to that very thing.... (0+ / 0-)

                      in his interview w/Bill Moyers. Reverend Wright talks about that @ 3:54, how that MLK was villified by some of his own for speaking out about the Vietnam War, against the deceit of capitalism, they thought he's gone "too far".

                      Citing your quote below, it seems to me Dr. King was damned if he did and damned if he didn't...but one thing I know for certain, he spoke his own truth,
                      on that I never saw him compromise.

                      "cowardly" AT THE TIME by some members of the Black community, who preferred a more in-your-face firebrand approach.  like that taken by stokely carmichael.  or malcolm.

                      Again, at @ 3:54 listen to what Rev, Wright has to say:

                      so the quote is doubly ironic considering the context of the discussion to me.

                      But then again, perhaps "the discussion" has gone over my head.

                      "The first step towards madness is to think oneself wise." ~Fernando de Rojas

                      by Annalize5 on Mon Jul 26, 2010 at 07:01:48 PM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

            •  Thanks Shannika! (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              foufou

              As a long-time Trinitarian, I thank you for this.  You definitely hit the nail on the head here!

              Those of us who were shouting out warnings (and were/are sick and tired of the "Wright threw Obama under the bus" nonsense) were completely shot down.  We were basically told to STFU because it was all about getting Obama elected and we were "scaring" people.  

              Now, so many important members of our community who STILL support Obama despite his pandering have been shut out because of "fear."  There is no way in hell the Sherrod incident would have happened if Obama and his handlers weren't so afraid of being identified with certain segments of the black community.  As Melissa Harris Lacewell said, the name Sherrod should have immediately set off alarm bells!  It did in a significant part of our community which now has very little contact with the president.  Too bad.  

              Strange fruit, indeed.  

              End the wars! Single payer now!

              by HCKAD on Mon Jul 26, 2010 at 02:15:44 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

      •  Adept i love you but wright was wrong. (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        mallyroyal

        he should have stayed out of the media, he was saying stuff that was wrong. He destroyed himself.

        •  In what way? (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Tonedevil, foufou, mallyroyal

          The reason I ask is the same thing I shouted at the President when he decided to leave his church home.  What lie did he tell?  What did he say that wasnt the truth.  I know he has that strange aids theory, but outside of that what did he say that was objectionable or wrong, or are we falling prey to the media spin?

          Fox News is America's Radio Rwanda. Picket Fox 8/28/10

          by Adept2u on Mon Jul 26, 2010 at 10:10:41 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  when he got on tv and stated that the jews (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            mallyroyal

            was telling him what to do. He could have kept most of negative comments between him and barack. The got dam america thing was Fox he was attacked on that , but his response after that which questioned me. Farakhan stayed  quiet he said he knew what the were trying to do(media). He will keep quiet because he did'nt want his possibilities of becoming president an obstacle and he knew they would go there.

            •  let me repeat something you just said: (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Tulips

              Farakhan stayed quiet he said he knew what the were trying to do (media).

              this is what I'm talking about.  The Minister knew the stakes.

              "It's baffling when the netroots bash Obama" ~Van Jones, 7/23/10

              by mallyroyal on Mon Jul 26, 2010 at 10:18:38 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

        •  Let me not say you are wrong. I disagree is bette (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          mallyroyal
    •  We are all of different thought on this (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      lordcopper, Adept2u, Tulips

      I seen Rev Wright's speech as a defiance of himself.

    •  History in the long run (0+ / 0-)

      will show that Reverend Wright was very right.  The chickens will come home to roost. But people don't remember that part of the speech.  The same crazy sound bite was played over and over and over ad naseum on all the channels.  But the rest of his speech which was of the dire consequences of our nation's actions was completely ignored.

      I also do believe the President was right to cut him loose.  

      --Mr. President, you have to earn my vote every day. Not take it for granted. --

      by chipoliwog on Mon Jul 26, 2010 at 10:57:20 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Valerie Jarrett and Michelle Obama n/t (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    sherijr, Adept2u, mallyroyal

    Barack Obama in the Oval Office: There's a black man who knows his place.

    by Greasy Grant on Mon Jul 26, 2010 at 08:26:40 AM PDT

    •  Do not have the standing to speak to him (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      soothsayer99

      One is his employee and the other his wife.  Neither have the ability standing or authority to pull the Presidents coat tails in the manner the Rev. Wright does.

      Fox News is America's Radio Rwanda. Picket Fox 8/28/10

      by Adept2u on Mon Jul 26, 2010 at 08:28:34 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  wtf? (7+ / 0-)

        are you serious?  Michelle Obama doesnt have ths standing to speak to him?

        Jerry Brown for CA_GOV 2010

        by GlowNZ on Mon Jul 26, 2010 at 08:29:16 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Not in the same way (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          soothsayer99

          They have a different relationship, and I wouldnt expect Michelle to fuck with him over stuff like that, what you people want critics in his fucking bedroom too.

          Fox News is America's Radio Rwanda. Picket Fox 8/28/10

          by Adept2u on Mon Jul 26, 2010 at 08:30:29 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  I might also mention (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            lordcopper

            that Michelle Obama is also black.  

            Jerry Brown for CA_GOV 2010

            by GlowNZ on Mon Jul 26, 2010 at 08:31:18 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  I might also mention (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              soothsayer99, hardhatmama

              That its not her job to be the ambassador to the black community for her husband its her job to support him and raise their children.

              Fox News is America's Radio Rwanda. Picket Fox 8/28/10

              by Adept2u on Mon Jul 26, 2010 at 08:33:10 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  Wha...? (4+ / 0-)

                Much of the best advice and counsel I've ever received has come from my spouse.  It's her job to support him - among other things, to make sure he's aware of what's happening.  And it's both of their jobs to raise the children; not even being POTUS excuses one from that role.

                "Never mind the trick, what the hell's the point?" Joseph Heller, CATCH-22

                by wozzle on Mon Jul 26, 2010 at 08:39:05 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  Dont recall saying Michelle doesnt counsel him (0+ / 0-)

                  What I said was it was not her job to be the ambassador of the black community.  Strange how written words 2 inches above are misconstured.

                  Fox News is America's Radio Rwanda. Picket Fox 8/28/10

                  by Adept2u on Mon Jul 26, 2010 at 08:43:39 AM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  you're losing focus. (4+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    chumley, lordcopper, a night owl, sherijr

                    if the point is "he doesn't have a real african american touchstone that can tell him what the average black person thinks

                    I posit that michelle and her family (her brother, her MOTHER) fill that role nicely.

                    to think otherwise is to ignore what "extended family" means to ALL of us.

                    "It's baffling when the netroots bash Obama" ~Van Jones, 7/23/10

                    by mallyroyal on Mon Jul 26, 2010 at 09:14:31 AM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  Standing (0+ / 0-)

                      I tried to put in the diary the special relationship one has with ones pastor.  Your family can't necesarily fit that role although they can.  It's possible I'm losing focus so let me try and restate what im trying to get at.

                      A pastor has a special role get you into heaven
                      A black civil rights/economic justice pastor has unique perspective
                      The family although there for all kinds of support does not have as its primary motivation making sure that the person does right morally.
                      The President had that person stolen from him.

                      I'll keep on trying if this doesn't make sense to you.

                      Fox News is America's Radio Rwanda. Picket Fox 8/28/10

                      by Adept2u on Mon Jul 26, 2010 at 09:20:58 AM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  as a guy (1+ / 0-)
                        Recommended by:
                        sherijr

                        who grew up in "the black church" but doesn't attend any service regularly nowadays I say thats a simplistic way to look at it.  yeah I don't attend grace baptist church of germantown anymore (Rev wrights HOME CHURCH where his dad preached, I might add) but I'm still black as I ever was:

                        here's my (admittedly personal) take.  I can't imagine sapphire1 allowing me to ever forget just how black I am.  EVER.  no matter whether I become The Most Powerful Man in the Free World or not.

                        "It's baffling when the netroots bash Obama" ~Van Jones, 7/23/10

                        by mallyroyal on Mon Jul 26, 2010 at 09:26:37 AM PDT

                        [ Parent ]

                        •  That's your lady! (1+ / 0-)
                          Recommended by:
                          mallyroyal

                          I had no freaking idea!  I love her more now!

                          Let me ask you this.  Let's say you had something really dark and secret, maybe something you were ashamed of a thought a compulsion.  How free would you be to share that first with your spouse?  I know there have been a few times when I sought spiritual advice before I broached the subject with my sweetie (she's diaried here a couple times, but she hates the people here lol) and it helped me before I went to her.  That's the kind of cost i'm speaking about.  

                          Fox News is America's Radio Rwanda. Picket Fox 8/28/10

                          by Adept2u on Mon Jul 26, 2010 at 09:45:46 AM PDT

                          [ Parent ]

                          •  I see what you're saying (2+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            sherijr, Adept2u

                            and agree... but is that an analogue to what we're discussing?

                            "It's baffling when the netroots bash Obama" ~Van Jones, 7/23/10

                            by mallyroyal on Mon Jul 26, 2010 at 09:52:16 AM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  It's the relationship i was trying to evoke (2+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            mallyroyal, lightshine

                            The different kind of intimacy, and coming from the figure that is the Rev. Jeremiah Wright I just can't help but think things might be different.  I think that's why the link was attacked by Fox.  

                            Do you think it's any surprise that the Rev. Wright played 24/7 and not the Rev. Hagee?  He's 5000 times more toxic than the Rev. Wright yet he's still a powerful force in American politics.  John McCain fired him as his political advisor yet he is not demonized his ideas and attitudes crushed.

                            Fox News is America's Radio Rwanda. Picket Fox 8/28/10

                            by Adept2u on Mon Jul 26, 2010 at 10:14:16 AM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  a few points I saw made by others: (2+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            Adept2u, Tulips

                            -rev. wright is as northern as me (literally.  he's from philly).  even he might not get the FULL import of what happened to mrs. sherrod in the same way a jim clyburn or donna brazile would. [thanks to tazzz]

                            -minister farrakhan himself (not a man known for holding his tongue) stayed quiet around the topic of "is Obama doing enough for blacks" and further... pushed back on the meme. [thanks to Tulips]

                            not necessarily a true reply to what you just wrote... just some things to think on.

                            "It's baffling when the netroots bash Obama" ~Van Jones, 7/23/10

                            by mallyroyal on Mon Jul 26, 2010 at 10:23:10 AM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Beg to differ (2+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            Adept2u, foufou

                            Rev. Wright has known the Sherrod family personally for decades and is well aware of their prominence in civil rights movement.  We heard about them quite frequently at Trinity long before Shirley Sherrod was trashed in the national media.  This is the a part of the history and narrative that Obama forgoes by cutting himself off from certain segments of our community.  Pity.

                            End the wars! Single payer now!

                            by HCKAD on Mon Jul 26, 2010 at 02:24:44 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

              •  Are we back in the 1950's? (0+ / 0-)

                "Because I am a river to my people."

                by lordcopper on Mon Jul 26, 2010 at 09:22:02 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  I don't understand that question (0+ / 0-)

                  If you mean the 1950's michelle should support her husband, no i'd say the same thing going the other direction.  If you mean that Michelle should take care of their children, that's what she says her primary duty is, and I agree with her.

                  Fox News is America's Radio Rwanda. Picket Fox 8/28/10

                  by Adept2u on Mon Jul 26, 2010 at 09:23:22 AM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

          •  IMO Michelle can be honest/real with him like (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            sherijr

            no one else.

        •  One more point to Michelle's role (0+ / 0-)

          I put a paragraph in the diary regarding the special role and standing a Pastor has to a person of faith and how and why one relies on that special perspective.  That is something again a wife cannot do.

          Fox News is America's Radio Rwanda. Picket Fox 8/28/10

          by Adept2u on Mon Jul 26, 2010 at 08:51:29 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  c'mon cuzzo (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        sherijr

        that sounds crazy.  his wife can't pull his coat? doesn't ring true.

        "It's baffling when the netroots bash Obama" ~Van Jones, 7/23/10

        by mallyroyal on Mon Jul 26, 2010 at 09:12:12 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Sure she can, but would she? (0+ / 0-)

          If she saw that he had 1800 things kicking his ass would she really put down 1801?  I actually hope she wouldn't.  I think the man does need at least one base that isn't in his ass 24/7

          Fox News is America's Radio Rwanda. Picket Fox 8/28/10

          by Adept2u on Mon Jul 26, 2010 at 09:22:05 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  yes! she would! (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            sherijr

            you act like you don't know! lol I cannot see the former ms. robinson holding her tongue regardless of whatever else is goin on.

            you seriously think she doesn't give him the bill duke "you know you done fucked up right" look on the daily?!

            "It's baffling when the netroots bash Obama" ~Van Jones, 7/23/10

            by mallyroyal on Mon Jul 26, 2010 at 09:23:23 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

      •  I heard he has a ear REv sharpton. (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Adept2u

        I think he knows, about AA. i think he just want to handle it differently. which is ok, but a little guidance should searched. you know who i think is good for that.The guy from BEt, i think his name is Jeff Johnson.

    •  Michelle, yes. Mrs. Robinson, yes. (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Adept2u

      Jarrett, as Dowd noted, grew up in Iran and has more knowledge of international business than she does of rural communities in the South.

      I actually think what Obama is missing is a good "Southern Strategist" - and I'm not talking about Paul Begala, George Stephanopoulos, or James Carville.

      I'm thinking someone like Clyburn, or Sherrod, or maybe Artur Davis ... but the problem with relying on one adviser too much is that you lose the real diversity that comes from lots of advisers.

      Full Disclosure: I am not Ben Leming. But I think he's pretty cool.

      by Benintn on Mon Jul 26, 2010 at 08:49:36 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  You are contributing to the "It's Obama's (5+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    lordcopper, GlowNZ, jalenth, zizi, sherijr

    fault" on this. It is so beyond bizarre to find fault with Obama on this in regards to race. The idea that he is not schooled on what race means in this country, that he might need Sherrod (or you) to teach him about it - I just find that bizarre. I dont' mean that Sherrod or you could teach him nothing, but to act like he's terribly lacking on the subject is just nuts.

  •  IMO there's nothing to suggest (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    jalenth, soothsayer99

    that there was any sort of significant WH involvement in the Sherrod firing, which seems to me to be more about knee-jerk reactions to drama and sensationalism and less about the WH having a tin ear with regards to race matters.  A previous incident of this type, the "Sistah Souljah" incident, did not result in that particular black woman getting her name cleared by her WH nor getting this sort of vigorous defense by a WH, media organizations, and a major civil rights organization.  There's some progress here.

    I don't think I can agree with this diary, although I'd love to see Wright and President Obama repair their relationship.

    climate.gov---POTUS' New Science-Based Climate Change Agency

    by GN1927 on Mon Jul 26, 2010 at 08:31:28 AM PDT

  •  I always rec you but I am confused. (5+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Little, MKinTN, sherijr, Adept2u, soothsayer99

    As an AA who does more than my share of railing that POTUS doesn't seem to be doing ANY heavy lifting on race matters, I think I agree with Maureen Dowd.

    You seem to also, even though you call it concern trolling. Not sure why that would be. She doesn't seem disingenuous (trolling) to me.

    I may be in the minority here (semi-snark) but I believe the Skip Gates exercise was still a GOOD thing for the country. I don't know who gave POTUS counsel on that and I don't care. I want these "national conversations" to happen.

    Clearly in the Sherrod case everyone with any power (USDA, Fox, Breitschmuck) all lurched forward into "resolution" mode with no conversation about what went on with Sherrod.

    The teachable moment here is for the beer summit to be between Vilsack and those "white farmers" that Sherrod helped. That would be the national conversation point.

    2 cents.

    Pepto-Bismol stepped up. I'm going to be doing...contests for them in August. That worked out perfectly, because I already drink Pepto-Bismol.-Joey Chestnutt

    by malharden on Mon Jul 26, 2010 at 08:34:32 AM PDT

    •  No worries I don't put stuff out for recs (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      malharden, lightshine

      I like to talk about my ideas.

      It would have been a good thing for the country in my opinion if they had pulled back the curtain on routine police lying in their police report.  It would have been a good thing had he stuck with his first impression, and then when the white media backlash happened maybe he shouldnt have cow towed to crowley

      My overriding idea in this diary is there was one person with the standing and the knowledge to have called the white house and spoken directly with the president.  That person was stolen from him using the same tactic.

      Fox News is America's Radio Rwanda. Picket Fox 8/28/10

      by Adept2u on Mon Jul 26, 2010 at 08:40:29 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  As an old, southern white guy, (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Adept2u, lightshine

    I thought that Wright was refreshingly honest and failed to see why no effort was put into placing his comments in context. Unfortunately, such actions have now become a commonplace occurrence; defence of his populist allies appears not to be a well developed trait in Obama. I agree that Wright would have been an excellent ground for a President moving into unprecedented political storms, instead he was turned into a lightning rod.

    What the whole debacle said to me was that Obama was moving on to what he perceived as greener pastures; cleaning out the psychic garage prior to the moving van's arrival. The allure of Davos beckoned. He has made many mistakes, but cutting himself off from one of the few people who could have advised him as to what the average American thinks of his policies was ill advised.

    "Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth." Oscar Wilde

    by nippersdad on Mon Jul 26, 2010 at 08:47:24 AM PDT

    •  It's because Obama's job is not to be (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Adept2u, Tulips

      racial reconciliator in chief.  It's to be President.

      Obama gave the 'More Perfect Union' address in Philly to close the issue, not to address it.  It was an excellent reflection of his views and diverse experience - something Obama has written and thought articulately about in his book "Dreams from my father" and elsewhere.

      But in the midst of a campaign, and with Clinton and Wolfson and the rest throwing fuel on the "Obama can't win" fire, it was incumbent upon Obama to choose, and he chose to put winning the election ahead of healing the relationship with Jeremiah Wright.

      By the way, Axelrod and Plouffe were ill-prepared to address it and repeatedly told Obama to throw Wright under the bus.  So I don't blame Obama.  I blame his handlers.

      Full Disclosure: I am not Ben Leming. But I think he's pretty cool.

      by Benintn on Mon Jul 26, 2010 at 08:55:00 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Historically (0+ / 0-)

        it is Presidents who have been racial reconciliators in chief, though. Integration of the military, civil rights legislation...all Presidents. Who could have made a better case for Wright than Obama? It is the very type of thing that the President is expected to do. He, himself, said that he could multi-task and that was a perfect opportunity.

        I don't blame Obama.  I blame his handlers.

        At some point you have to stop blaming the handlers for the actions of a man who appears to just like being handled.

        "Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth." Oscar Wilde

        by nippersdad on Mon Jul 26, 2010 at 09:09:37 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Which President did the racial reconciliation (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          irackobama

          in chief thing?  I seem to recall Clinton having a meeting but I sure dont recall any reconciliation in chief things happening.

          Fox News is America's Radio Rwanda. Picket Fox 8/28/10

          by Adept2u on Mon Jul 26, 2010 at 09:16:54 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Roosevelt integrated the military, (0+ / 0-)

            Johnson pushed through civil rights legislation in spite of knowing that it would split the Party. Even Obama had a beer with a cop and a professor. It is part of what is expected of a President, though Reconciliator in Chief may not necessarily be the title given to it.

            Part of his job is governing for the benefit of everyone. Trillions for the upper one percent of this society and forty percent unemployment for the AA community will not turn out well. One cannot reconcile such egregiously differential treatments. I think Wright could have effectively pointed that out and that Obama could have easily articulated it to the rest of the country.

            The ball was dropped. I do not think that Obama's efforts in this regard will ultimately rank with the efforts of either Roosevelt or Johnson, and the pity is that there was no one better suited to the job.

            "Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth." Oscar Wilde

            by nippersdad on Mon Jul 26, 2010 at 09:29:01 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

  •  What's the purpose of this diary (0+ / 0-)

    And that old photo of Obama and Wright?

    •  Did you read the diary (4+ / 0-)

      If you did your question doesnt make sense.  I put the picture of them together because I liked it.  I think the President would be much better if he could have a relationship with his pastor again.  I don't like how America demonized the Black church in the same manner it demonized Shirley Sherrod and I think it's an interesting parrallel of what happens when it does.  

      Fox News is America's Radio Rwanda. Picket Fox 8/28/10

      by Adept2u on Mon Jul 26, 2010 at 08:55:35 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Good grief! (0+ / 0-)

        All we need is another "Reverend Wright" contreversy...as if we didn't have enough of it. Anyone feel like dog chasing its tail here? Go around the same old s*it, round and round and round...

        Bye...I'm outta here

        •  Bye be out of here (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Tonedevil, Robinswing

          By Rev. Wright controversy I think you mean hearing things from the perspective a black person.  I think you mean Fox is right and Black folks are just scary, and when we say God Damn america for the sins it has committed like slavery, jim crowe, native american genocide, you know like what the Rev Wright was discussing in the video that America's Radio Rwanda took out of context we should just shut the fuck up.  So beat it, and Im not gonna shut the fuck up.

          Fox News is America's Radio Rwanda. Picket Fox 8/28/10

          by Adept2u on Mon Jul 26, 2010 at 09:15:47 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  No I am not attacking reverend Wright (0+ / 0-)

            But I am disturbed by his use for political purposes by the right wing. And they do that to attack Barack Obama, our first black president. The bottom line here is that Barack Obama, a black American, has won the election. I am wary of everything, including the rehashing of the rev Wright controversy to weaken Obama's presidency.

            Your diary and efforts to put words in my mouth

            I think you mean Fox is right and Black folks are just scary

            ...has made me to smell a rat

            Get it?

  •  Black America, one suggestion (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Adept2u, irackobama, Benintn, Mariken

    We have enough wealth, we can create our own 24/7 cable news channel. Black Americans deserve to be represented. We would be our own experts and defend the Shirley Sherrods and others from character assassinations.

    Why is this not a good plan?

    •  Didn't we try this with BET? (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Adept2u, lightshine

      And didn't Bob Johnson throw black people (and Obama) under the bus?

      I think the reason this isn't a good plan is because it aspires to be "like the white folk" instead of doing what the African-American community does well.

      I prefer the approach taken by folks like Tyler Perry or Oprah Winfrey or Baratunde Thurston or even Van Jones.

      The main problem with a black network is that, rather than allowing people to speak with their own voice (and to reflect the real diversity in the community), it creates caricatures that get fed by whites who dominate the current economic system.

      That's my sense.

      Full Disclosure: I am not Ben Leming. But I think he's pretty cool.

      by Benintn on Mon Jul 26, 2010 at 08:57:19 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  The season of failure is the best time for (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Adept2u

        sowing the seeds of success.

        Who said success was easy?

        Black Americans have unlimited determination so creating a black owned 24/7 cable news channel will require fearless individuals like Tyler Perry or Oprah Winfrey or Baratunde Thurston or even Van Jones.

        The impossible will become possible.

      •  Are You (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Adept2u, irackobama

        Seriously contending that because that self-hating Bob Johnson sold BET to Viacom (something that folks who care about Black people actually saw as a relief, since Lord knows that channel needed to go off the air long before it was sold, that's how shameful some of its programming was/is) that we should not be trying to create our own media outlets?

        Wow.

        If you don't stand for something, you will go for anything. Visit Maat's Feather

        by shanikka on Mon Jul 26, 2010 at 09:23:33 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Actually, that's NOT what I'm saying. (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Adept2u, lightshine

          Build black businesses because we want to and can, not as some orchestrated event to counter-program.

          "We-give-the-only-honest-news-about-Black-People" is not a sound founding principle, IMHO.

          Pepto-Bismol stepped up. I'm going to be doing...contests for them in August. That worked out perfectly, because I already drink Pepto-Bismol.-Joey Chestnutt

          by malharden on Mon Jul 26, 2010 at 09:38:47 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  Are you asking me? (0+ / 0-)

          Well, yes, I'm contending that after the failures of BET and others, we shouldn't create a "room of our own" for black people.

          Because the corporate-owned media inevitably sponsors this stuff in funky, target-marketed, poll-tested, market-researched ways, I have found that whether it's "Television for Women" (Lifetime, Oxygen) or "TV for guys" (Spike) or "Television for Children" (Nickelodeon, Disney Channel) or "Television for Christians" (PAX, TBN, CBN, etc.), it inevitably creates an aspirational image instead of reflecting reality and always ends up becoming a caricature of itself.

          This is the nature of the broadcast media beast.  Ghetto-izing African-Americans in the media will not help further the cause of equality or solidarity.

          That's just my experience.

          Full Disclosure: I am not Ben Leming. But I think he's pretty cool.

          by Benintn on Mon Jul 26, 2010 at 11:21:58 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  The Key Word is Sponsor (0+ / 0-)

            Sponsorship implies money - they are the ones paying for the product, therefore, they get what they pay for.

            But that says absolutely nothing about the programming we would get if our money was paying for it.  Including public access money.

            Cathy Hughes (herself not a saint when it comes to media and consolidation -- a businesswoman first and foremost, to be sure -- decided to break into and create Black radio nationwide, including with hosts that weren't afraid to say the word Black, when everyone told her she was crazy.)

            She may be crazy but today she owns hundreds of radio stations and TV One and while I definitely would not say that she personally is the most "down" sister there ever has been, it's a sight better than BET ever was.  At least if you're going to have silliness a little Afrocentric news and analysis (not to mention just plain old history and interviews) is a nice counterbalance.  

            If you don't stand for something, you will go for anything. Visit Maat's Feather

            by shanikka on Mon Jul 26, 2010 at 05:23:58 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

    •  we want invest. we could show some how to (0+ / 0-)

      survive this recesssion. we don't work to help towards our own interest. This is where the true black panther was good at. Community accountability

  •  I agree with you, Adept 2u (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Robinswing, Adept2u

    tipped and rec'd.

  •  I think you're right on this one (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    shanikka, Adept2u, irackobama, lightshine

    By Obama's own account, Rev. Wright helped him forge a link to the black community. I have not seen that the Obamas have found another spiritual home, so that is now kind of a void in his life. You're right that there is no one else in his life that could probably really "tell it like it is" to the President about issues relating to race.

    I do think it's deeper than that though. Rep. Clyburn said that as far as he knows, nobody black had any input on the decision to ask for Sherrod's resignation. How is that even possible? I can't imagine the arrogance of the white people in his administration who would think that they could do something like that without talking to at least somebody who could give a "black perspective" on it.

    I'm not bothered so much by the fact that there were apparently no blacks in the line of authority who would need to sign off on something like that, though that is disturbing in and of itself, but I'm more bothered by the milieu that would make the white people who were in the line of authority think that they could know enough about something like this to make a decision without consulting somebody black.

    It's like recently in my job, I faced a situation where there were two male attorneys who were having problems with a female client, some of which may have been gender-related, and the client called me. Before I did anything, I had a 30-minute conversation with a female attorney, just to get her take on it, and it turned out to be valuable.

    I'm not saying that only a black administration official should be able to fire a black person, but I am saying that if I was white, and the issue had to do with race, I sure as hell wouldn't think to do anything without first talking to a black person about it.  

    •  Indeed! (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      irackobama

      My experience here on Kos is such a trip.  I'm a suck writer!  I don't like to write!  If someone told me 2 years ago I'd be writing essays for fun I would have asked for a little of what they were smoking.  I know I fumble and fall in trying to get my points accross heck, im an sales dude in real life.

      I'm glad the point I was trying to make did make sense at least to you : )

      Fox News is America's Radio Rwanda. Picket Fox 8/28/10

      by Adept2u on Mon Jul 26, 2010 at 08:59:04 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  No, you're a good writer (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Adept2u, lightshine

        And writing is like anything else, the more you practice the better you get. I know that I've disagreed with you before, but 1000 times more important than any particular issue for me, is that everyone have their voice and be heard. Keep writing!

  •  "thanks white lady but no thanks"? (0+ / 0-)

    Oops, I'm white, so I stopped reading at that point. Sorry to interrupt.

    "♪♪ It's a-gonna happen...someday ♪♪ You're gonna see things...my way!" Buddy Holly

    by Giles Goat Boy on Mon Jul 26, 2010 at 09:08:25 AM PDT

    •  That's your decision (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Robinswing

      Interesting that you didn't care to read the accompanying analysis.  Is it your opinion that when it is pointed out that a white person is yet again telling the black community about itself it should go without comment.

      Fox News is America's Radio Rwanda. Picket Fox 8/28/10

      by Adept2u on Mon Jul 26, 2010 at 09:13:17 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Hi, (4+ / 0-)

        I'm a white lady and I think Maureen Dowd is the suck.

        Love your writing Adept2u, just not sure if the Rev Wright is quite the right mentor, if indeed Obama needs one. Hell, I don't know or pretend to.

        I just wish to hell and high water that we would all get past even having to think of the human race in terms of what flipping colour anyone is,

        I hope for the Martians sake they are all green.

        •  Dowd mentions Donna Brazile in the article (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Adept2u, AnnetteK

          Donna Brazile would be an awesome "friend" for Obama to have.

          I've met her as well as heard her speak in-person and I find her to be forthright, intelligent, spectacularly funny and...well...."human", for lack of a better term.

          She would make awesome White House Council.

          Though I am sure the pundits would ask, "Isn't Jarrett enough???".

          Apparently not.

          Pepto-Bismol stepped up. I'm going to be doing...contests for them in August. That worked out perfectly, because I already drink Pepto-Bismol.-Joey Chestnutt

          by malharden on Mon Jul 26, 2010 at 09:35:54 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  Why are you asking me my opinion? (0+ / 0-)

        I already said I'm white. It would not be appropriate for me to comment on whether it's appropriate for black people to comment on white people who comment on the black community.

        "♪♪ It's a-gonna happen...someday ♪♪ You're gonna see things...my way!" Buddy Holly

        by Giles Goat Boy on Mon Jul 26, 2010 at 09:38:14 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Because you took the time to comment (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Robinswing

          No one is telling you not to share your ideas you're the one who is self censoring hell you didnt even read the diary.  America isn't cowards on discussing race white people are.  That's what the 2 way conversation means.  It's interesting how it's perfectly ok to mention blacks as a group, but when one mentions white it's somehow racist.  Even if there is no negative connotation attached.

          Fox News is America's Radio Rwanda. Picket Fox 8/28/10

          by Adept2u on Mon Jul 26, 2010 at 09:52:12 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Fair enough. (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Adept2u

            So I read the rest of your diary. I don't think President Obama needs Reverend Wright to keep him in touch with the black community, but I understand that you think that would help. You've hinted in your diary that you don't consider a white person's opinion valid on this topic, though, so take mine for what it's worth.

            I also read Dowd's column. Here's what I don't get. She seems to be saying essentially the same thing you're saying - that President Obama needs more African American influence in his inner circle.

            So why the "thanks but no thanks" and the reference to her race and gender? And why label her column as "concern trolling"? Then you top it off with claiming there was no negative connotation attached.

            Why the need to distance yourself from the white lady?

            "♪♪ It's a-gonna happen...someday ♪♪ You're gonna see things...my way!" Buddy Holly

            by Giles Goat Boy on Mon Jul 26, 2010 at 11:32:13 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  I'd like to address where I think you took offens (0+ / 0-)

              You may not recognize it but white people do spend a great deal of time lecturing commenting etc on the black community.  What I was doing with that very gentle link language was showing how that felt a bit.  If it's ok for a white lady to comment that a black needed to be more black why isnt it ok to say thanks white lady but maybe you dont actually have the best interest of the black community at heart and are concern trolling.

              Fox News is America's Radio Rwanda. Picket Fox 8/28/10

              by Adept2u on Mon Jul 26, 2010 at 12:50:39 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

      •  The media know nothing about the black comm (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Robinswing

        unity and they don't care, so why should i listen to anything Maureen Dowd said. Especially a couple a weeks ago, she reference President Obama to a woman, which is racist statement to his manhood. She used the same language that was used in the Jim crow days.

  •  I was a huge supporter of Rev. Wright (0+ / 0-)

    But not anymore - his words have really hit too high a pitch of anti-Semitism.  If the President did not some guidance, I would hope he could rely on someone like Pastor Moss, rather than Jeremiah.  Just my two cents...

    It's like watching an unknown winning a boxing match vs. the world champ and asking him halfway why he didn't knock his opponent out in the first round.

    by bsmcneil on Mon Jul 26, 2010 at 09:09:36 AM PDT

    •  What did he say that was anti-semitic? (0+ / 0-)

      I did recall seeing something to the effect that the jews axelrod and emmanuel were keeping him from the president.  Was it the fact he said Jews that make him anti semitic?  Does referencing ones ethnic background without a negative connotation make you a bigot?

      Fox News is America's Radio Rwanda. Picket Fox 8/28/10

      by Adept2u on Mon Jul 26, 2010 at 09:27:13 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  I wanna say he still flies his barber in right? (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Catte Nappe, malharden, sherijr

    him.  michelle.  mrs. robinson.  MR. robinson (her brother)

    I think this is the dumbest argument ever adept.  I seriously cannot roll with you on this.  michelle by herself fills athat role.  add the supporting characters and you have a village.

    I seriously can't believe you're agreeing with fucking maureen dowd on some "he's not black enough" (and yes I know thats a gross oversimplification of what you're saying but jeez... this is like listening to a malcolm x tape on which he rails against black militancy)

    "It's baffling when the netroots bash Obama" ~Van Jones, 7/23/10

    by mallyroyal on Mon Jul 26, 2010 at 09:18:50 AM PDT

    •  No i'm not agreeing with Dowd (4+ / 0-)

      I'm saying that he had a unique resource that was stolen from him, and the lack of it tells.  I'm saying that he does have holes that need filling and his family certainly isnt enough.

      Fox News is America's Radio Rwanda. Picket Fox 8/28/10

      by Adept2u on Mon Jul 26, 2010 at 09:28:33 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  a confession: (0+ / 0-)

        due to a combination of factors:

        -my family is almost 100% northern for about 150 years so we have lost many southern traditions

        -both sides of my family tend towards light skin and eyes

        -I'm a 5th generation college graduate

        I've been told in a lot of ways by a lot of people that I'm not "black enough" the better part of my life.

        I sense shades of that in this meme against the admin... and I'm not liking it AT ALL.

        so maybe thats something I need to work through.  I know where your heart's at so I'm not mad AT YOU.  just... disappointed?

        "It's baffling when the netroots bash Obama" ~Van Jones, 7/23/10

        by mallyroyal on Mon Jul 26, 2010 at 09:32:11 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  I have a bunch of those traits (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          irackobama, mallyroyal

          My daughter was the 5th generation in my family to degree, and she's a light bright thing.  My family from the south calls me tinman because I act so white, so believe me when I say I feel you I do.  I can see how the idea of "black enough" was conveyed but it was not my intention.  It was my intention to show how a piece of Barack Obama was stolen in access to his church home, and how that could have effects on him even today.  May I ask if you are a person of faith?  The reason I ask is because of the relationship of Pastor.  I tried to point out in my diary how I understood how that relationship is difficult for those who don't have it to concieve of which is why I'm kind of balking at thinking that any member of his family could take that spot.

          Fox News is America's Radio Rwanda. Picket Fox 8/28/10

          by Adept2u on Mon Jul 26, 2010 at 09:39:41 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  ..and I still don't agree that's what Dowd's... (0+ / 0-)

        ...saying.

        Pepto-Bismol stepped up. I'm going to be doing...contests for them in August. That worked out perfectly, because I already drink Pepto-Bismol.-Joey Chestnutt

        by malharden on Mon Jul 26, 2010 at 09:39:48 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  You know he did, Which Rev Wright as a pastor (0+ / 0-)

        should be more outreaching then he is.

    •   a wife is not a spiritual advisor (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      irackobama, mallyroyal

      neither is a barber, mother-in-law, brother-in-law. They are family and friends.  Adept2u is right, imo - a spirtual advisor has a different, but important role that cannot be filled by family & friends.

      •  I don't agree (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        sherijr

        that such an advisor needs to be "spiritual".  just tuned in with the Af-Am community.  you can't tell me his in-laws aren't.  

        this whole thing rings untrue to ME.

        "It's baffling when the netroots bash Obama" ~Van Jones, 7/23/10

        by mallyroyal on Mon Jul 26, 2010 at 09:36:14 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  You're right, mallyroyal (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Adept2u, irackobama, mallyroyal

          but Pres. Obama has written in his books how important  his faith is and credited  Rev. Wright with helping him develop & evolve in his spirituality.  He does not currently have such a person for support. Rev. Wright  also has a long hx of civil rights activism and knows the issues of AA in America.

        •  Yes But then (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Adept2u, mallyroyal, lightshine

          What do you do if his inlaws (his wife in particular) are silenced for political reasons as well?

          My view is that if the man could get Michelle to at least publicly sign on to this bullshit when he was campaigning, I can't have a whole lot of faith that she's schooling him (at least in a way that it sticks) when they are in their private life.  I hope I'm wrong for the record.  But I can't say I know.  Not after the man literally let his advisors "remake" his wife just to get elected.

          If you don't stand for something, you will go for anything. Visit Maat's Feather

          by shanikka on Mon Jul 26, 2010 at 09:45:35 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  ok (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            sherijr, Adept2u

            What do you do if his inlaws (his wife in particular) are silenced for political reasons as well?

            "silenced for political reasons" can only mean public silence.  and I'm not talking about what michelle says to him IN PUBLIC.

            My view is that if the man could get Michelle to at least publicly sign on to this bullshit when he was campaigning, I can't have a whole lot of faith that she's schooling him (at least in a way that it sticks) when they are in their private life.

            MY view is that I'm glad they were SERIOUS about getting elected president and first lady in the USA, so I'm glad they did it.  that (the image reboot) means literally nothing unless you're really really into image, like the majority of the country is.  I'm not.

            "It's baffling when the netroots bash Obama" ~Van Jones, 7/23/10

            by mallyroyal on Mon Jul 26, 2010 at 09:51:08 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Well (3+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Adept2u, mallyroyal, lightshine

              All I can say is that if you do not understand how "image" is systematically used against our people and has been for hundreds of years, and the detriment that it does to our collective cause not to push back against an image being enforced as a condition of us having our rightful place in this country, that I am at a loss.

              If you don't stand for something, you will go for anything. Visit Maat's Feather

              by shanikka on Mon Jul 26, 2010 at 09:55:12 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  and I'm at a loss if you can't (2+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                sherijr, Adept2u

                see that when running for public office, compromises must be made.  if none were, we'd be looking at vice president palin, matter fact.

                I'm sure it was a serious decision for that family.  one not made lightly.  and I don't call it "bullshit" any more than lessons to me when I was young telling me not to move suddenly around or mouth off at cops was "bullshit".

                necessity rarely is, IMO.

                "It's baffling when the netroots bash Obama" ~Van Jones, 7/23/10

                by mallyroyal on Mon Jul 26, 2010 at 09:58:01 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

    •  Oh by the way (4+ / 0-)

      Do not hesitate to criticize me.  Everything I put out isn't gold, and the reason I put it out is to discuss it's ideas.  I fully appreciate you sharing your views here and should you ever think I'm just a flat asshole like here don't stop.  Call me an asshole I won't take offense.  You may even change my mind, but I do want to make sure you are understanding what i'm saying.

      Fox News is America's Radio Rwanda. Picket Fox 8/28/10

      by Adept2u on Mon Jul 26, 2010 at 09:30:19 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Wright is the wrong person for it (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    sherijr, Giles Goat Boy, Mariken

    You may have a point about whether Obama has enough blacks close to him who can speak honestly to him about racial implications. But Wright proved himself incapable of filling that role. He chose to speak publicly "about" Obama, rather than privately "to" Obama. That disqualifies one as a trusted advisor.

    (BTW, don't forget Reggie Love)

    "I want to apologize for that misconstrued misconstruction." Rep Joe Barton

    by Catte Nappe on Mon Jul 26, 2010 at 09:20:29 AM PDT

    •  Wright was the right person. (0+ / 0-)

      Wright had to fall on the sword for the higher good. IMHO the clips played over and over were full of truths from the point of view of many African Americans. Wright's reputation was ignominiously disintegrated after a lifetime of wonderful work. BTW I think that his words and behavior at the press conference were contrived so that Obama could make a clean break and move forward without Fox's manipulative handy work overshadowing the election...too much.

      "If I had to name my greatest strength, I guess it would be my humility. Greatest weakness, it's possible that I'm a little too awesome." Barack Obama

      by irackobama on Mon Jul 26, 2010 at 03:38:12 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  The treatment of Wright was epic racism, (5+ / 0-)

    and from what little I know, I see Wright as a truth-speaker of the highest order.  But I don't for a second buy the notion that, without him, Obama made bad decisions that Wright would have kept him from making.  Nor do I accept that Fox is to blame for Obama turning his back on his advisor.  He doesn't have to announce every phone call he makes to the Washington Post.

    All of us liberals--black, white, and in between--saw what was happening with Sherrod from the very beginning.  Not having Wright for advice doesn't begin to explain how Obama, or at least the Obama administration, could have been so dense.  It would be less upsetting if it didn't fit into a pattern of this kind of reactivity to bigotry and insanity from the right.

    Being black doesn't make Obama necessarily an effective champion of these issues.  Not that he should come in for too heavy fire either; he's the first president ever to have to be president of all the people while also being the first AA to hold the office.  In the end, no one can claim to know how best to handle the hundreds of small and large issues of race he faces.

    Don't believe everything you think.

    by geomoo on Mon Jul 26, 2010 at 09:23:58 AM PDT

  •  This is a division played out in black America (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Adept2u

    daily.  The argument is "what does an individual AA person owes to the AA race".  Some AAs won't be happy umless Obama becomes the primary spokesperson for every racial injustice that occurrs, making him "the black President.  Others believe that as POTUS, he can't be pigeonholed into such a narrow role, and the best thing he can do is fight against injustice by directing his administration and supporting appropriate legislation.

    "Because I am a river to my people."

    by lordcopper on Mon Jul 26, 2010 at 09:29:42 AM PDT

    •  I'm Just Going to Link (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      malharden, Adept2u, kid funkadelic

      What I wrote recently (again) about folks who keep saying that nonsense about President Obama needing not to be "the Black president":

      Will you STOP with that bullshit meme?"

      If you don't stand for something, you will go for anything. Visit Maat's Feather

      by shanikka on Mon Jul 26, 2010 at 09:34:03 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  That's exactly what you're proposing. Because of (0+ / 0-)

        his race, you're assigning him additional responsibility for racial issues.  I would think that any POTUS, regardless of race, would have the same responsibility in these matters.

        "Because I am a river to my people."

        by lordcopper on Mon Jul 26, 2010 at 09:38:34 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  We can Agree to Disagree (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          malharden, Adept2u, lightshine

          This country is not yet at the point where we are colorblind.  The President's primary responsibility, no matter who it is, is to LEAD, not follow.

          And we are uniquely poised to have a President who CAN lead on healing this nation's longest running mental disorder.  He knew that this was going to be an issue when he volunteered to run for President. And assuming he loves both our people and the country as a whole, and I assume he does, this is not asking anything that him having been born Black wouldn't have asked of him anyway most days of his adult life.

          It isn't fair but yes, those of us in a position to make a difference on race and racism have a duty.  Even the President.

          If you don't stand for something, you will go for anything. Visit Maat's Feather

          by shanikka on Mon Jul 26, 2010 at 09:43:48 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  I agree 9000%. (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Lexicon, Catte Nappe, Adept2u

            As somebody in a career where not a lot of people look like me, it remains my responsibility to be a good role model, a good example, a trail blazer and an educator (regarding my opinion) on certain socio-economic matters.

            Obama willingly accepted that responsibility multiplied by a gazillion.

            He knows this. I just don't think he quite knows how to do it.

            Fair enough. But don't allow yourself to be perceived as hiding from race-related conversations because your enemies might frame that poorly. We know they'll frame everything he does negatively.

            Pepto-Bismol stepped up. I'm going to be doing...contests for them in August. That worked out perfectly, because I already drink Pepto-Bismol.-Joey Chestnutt

            by malharden on Mon Jul 26, 2010 at 09:48:05 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          •  To lead on the most pressing issues facing the (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Adept2u

            country.  That requires some prioritization.

            "Because I am a river to my people."

            by lordcopper on Mon Jul 26, 2010 at 09:57:25 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

        •  He's kind of stuck with it (0+ / 0-)

          And has probably had that experience before in some other trail blazing roles (Law review?).

          They all can get stuck with some "additional" responsibilities like Eisenhower speaking about the military industrial complex, which is not a concept we'd want to hear GWB's thoughts on. Kennedy had to deal with his religion.

          "I want to apologize for that misconstrued misconstruction." Rep Joe Barton

          by Catte Nappe on Mon Jul 26, 2010 at 12:02:42 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

    •  P.S. (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Adept2u

      The "bullshit" part is not directed at you because you have highlighted the division in thought, not advocated a particular position.

      If you don't stand for something, you will go for anything. Visit Maat's Feather

      by shanikka on Mon Jul 26, 2010 at 09:35:06 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  He needs a spiritual mentor (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Catte Nappe, Adept2u

    I don't think it's so much this one race issue. I think he needs someone in general who can help him recharge and stay inspired. I can't imagine the toll this grind must be taking on him as a human being. He can't even take a weekend away with his family or play a round of golf without being mocked and excoriated. How can he possibly tolerate this incessant stress - day after day without any let up, ever?

    I just have an ordinary job and I'd snap if I didn't have my 2 days off, plus a little extra time for holidays. He may be President, but he's also a human being. I don't think any other President has ever been held to this standard of never being allowed to take a decent rest to recharge and renew his inspirations.

  •  America is extremely racist (3+ / 0-)

    We stopped Shirley Sharrod from being "Reverend Wrighted". When Rev.Wright's friend Father Michael Pfleger had his back,Oreilly and company smeared him. Bill eveen had the Catholic Church  officials shut him up. Yes, he was a "good white person", but he wasn't a old white southern couple.

    Reverend Wright helped bring home a American Pilot. He saved LBJ life (LBJ words, not mine).He served in two branches of the armed services during the Vietnam War. But if you scream N****r long enough, you can get anyone to hate you!

    Think...It ain't illegal yet ! George Clinton

    by kid funkadelic on Mon Jul 26, 2010 at 09:51:03 AM PDT

  •  It's a special relationship (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Adept2u, irackobama, Mariken, mallyroyal

    The relationship I have with my Pastors is very precious to me, and I have their ear on major issues that affect me. I treasure their counsel.

    It is hard for some folks to understand the relationship African-American's have with their church family. It's sacred. The strongest bonds in our community have always been to the House of Faith.

    I was hoping that the President would quickly reaffiliate with another church so that he would not be without that "covering" when situations just like this one came up.

    The incident with Ms. Sherrod was a wake up call for all of us, but especially for our AA community. We need to wake up, step up, and get in the mix at the highest levels. We can't allow ourselves to be "shut out" - not now! The President needs our counsel.

    Sistahspeak on Dkos speaks for me...

    by angeleyes on Mon Jul 26, 2010 at 09:53:40 AM PDT

  •  While I respect (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    sherijr, mallyroyal

    Your right to your religious beliefs, I do not think our President should be turning to his pastor for religious advise on political and national matters.  We had that with our previous President.  How did that work out for us?

    I do think the patriotic thing to do is to critique my country. How else do you make a country better but by pointing out its flaws? Bill Maher

    by gtghawaii on Mon Jul 26, 2010 at 09:54:20 AM PDT

    •  Newsflash! (4+ / 0-)

      The President can't go to any church. Fox would slam them for being racist and they would get death threats. Every Minister in D.C. is probably  saying, thank God the President doesn't comes to my church.

      Think...It ain't illegal yet ! George Clinton

      by kid funkadelic on Mon Jul 26, 2010 at 10:04:50 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  As did the 43 other Presidents we've had (3+ / 0-)

      Gosh who was that old guy who just passed away that had like the worldwide ministry not swaggert, GAH, anyway he was in the offices of 5 presidents on a regular basis if im not mistaken.

      Fox News is America's Radio Rwanda. Picket Fox 8/28/10

      by Adept2u on Mon Jul 26, 2010 at 10:05:42 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  But Adept2u (4+ / 0-)

        They were white. They attack him for his choice of mustard. Chris Rock should do a new show "Everybody Hates da Prez".

        Think...It ain't illegal yet ! George Clinton

        by kid funkadelic on Mon Jul 26, 2010 at 10:21:55 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Actually not true of all 43 POTUS (0+ / 0-)

        George Washington did not attend church services during or after his presidency and refused to discuss religion.  He felt very strongly about that seperation of church and state.  George Washington, John Adams, Thomas Jefferson, James Madison, James Monroe, John Quincy Adams, John Tyler, Millard Fillmore, Abraham Lincoln, and Andrew Jackson were all either diest (agnostic) or Unitarian during their presidencies and were not overtly religious.

        The demand for politicians to wear their religion on their sleave and to demand that as a test of office is recent historically speaking.  

        I do think the patriotic thing to do is to critique my country. How else do you make a country better but by pointing out its flaws? Bill Maher

        by gtghawaii on Mon Jul 26, 2010 at 11:30:40 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Your description of the old guy (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Adept2u

        Fits Billy Graham. Except he's still alive.

        "I want to apologize for that misconstrued misconstruction." Rep Joe Barton

        by Catte Nappe on Mon Jul 26, 2010 at 11:44:49 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  more thoughts: (5+ / 0-)

    during this flap I once again lamented the loss of my mom and grandfather, with whom I'd love to talk ANYTHING Obama related, but certainly the events of last week.

    so I called my DAD, who thought very much like my mother when it comes to situations like this.  I visited my maternal GRANDMOTHER, who knew both of the above better than I did, and could tell me what they might have thought.

    I, like the president, have a lady that brooks very little nonsense.  she was raised by her militant aunt and uncle.

    I asked THEM what she thought within a day of the first showing of the clip.

    I called my BEST FRIEND, who I've known since we were ten.  (jesus christ thats 26 years!! just realized that lol)

    this is all besides the fact that me and sapphire have been talking about this nonstop since it broke.

    I'm having a very hard time thinking the president was unable to do the same things I just did.

    one of the ledes from this story (again, to me) is that the news cycle and new media kind of prohibit that kind of time being taken (meaning the time I took to talk to touchstones) before pressure is put on folks in public life to say/do SOMETHING to feed the beast.  thats why this happened moreso than any dearth of blackness in the president's circle.  my opinion anyway.

    "It's baffling when the netroots bash Obama" ~Van Jones, 7/23/10

    by mallyroyal on Mon Jul 26, 2010 at 10:35:43 AM PDT

  •  Call For Sophistication By The Whitehouse On (0+ / 0-)
  •  Totally disagree. (0+ / 0-)

    Dr. Wright messed up. Yes, I know he was treated unfairly by the RW Noise Machine. But he made controversial statements and whether they were in or out of context, he said some strong things that made people uncomfortable.

    Obama tried to keep it low key and quietly distance himself, but (IMO) Dr. Wright couldn't stay out of the spotlight. Instead of quietly retiring and trying not to be a liability to candidate Obama, he had to get back in the spotlight. He left Obama no choice but to repudiate him.

    That's how politics works--if you claim to support a candidate, you can't do anything that is a liability to him or her. I believe Obama tried not to publicly repudiate Dr. Wright, but I agree with his action after Dr. Wright effectively stabbed him in the back. I feel Obama was extremely careful in trying not to publicly throw Wright overboard up until Wright's appearance at the Press Club.

    There's no defending the inherent racism in Fox's and the right wing's attacks on Wright, Sherrod, ACORN, etc.  But I think Obama did what he had to do and I generally respect how he approached it.

    "[The GOP wanting to debate Obama is like saying] 'Let's see how tough Aquaman is when we get him in the water.' " --Seth Meyers

    by homogenius on Mon Jul 26, 2010 at 12:43:14 PM PDT

  •  thanks for the post (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Adept2u, irackobama, lightshine

    and also, the comments. Off the top of my head, I think when President Obama lost Rev. Wright, it was a metaphorical loss, not only of a father, and advisor, but his link to a foundation of his being truly "Black enough", and I think, frankly, Obama must sometimes feel like he is on quicksand.

    Maybe it was a surprise to Obama, that white America still doesn't get it enough to think about it. He wrote the two books, and I thought he was very honest about race in America.

    On Michelle Obama, sure she probably does have input, but she is not a politician.

  •  Very interesting diary, Adept2u (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Adept2u

    (I truly miss my Pasadena church since moving a few years ago - a great loss that will continue to play out in my life until I find a new home church. ;)

    I have no comment one way or the other other than if reconciliation is the act then there's always a healing benefit.

    I will say that while I can't guess if/how it would help today, had the whole brouhaha never happened President Obama would have a pastor which would be a great asset for him. Also, a man, a President, with a pastor, and all that relationship means, presents a picture that would go a long way in removing the doubts about him as a man, his nature, some people have, doubts that are relentlessly exploited against Obama.

    I hope that's not misinterpreted as being prejudiced against an atheist or someone without a pastor. It's just that for leaders especially, the very existence of a pastor, says a lot about a person. I can tell you know what I mean.

    A bit OT but the whole affair was such a tragedy, like watching a tragic opera unfold. I think both men, Rev. Wright and the President, knew Rev. Wright had no chance once the wolves started howling and the predatory banquet began.  

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