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Insurance is only the answer if you're solvent. You're protecting what you've got, so if there's a bad accident/occurrence, the money will be there to make you whole again.

Medicare. For all.

The vast majority of Americans who cannot afford insurance/healthcare...are NOT solvent. They're broke, they don't have a reliable income source, or they don't have a company/corporation to partner with to defer some of the cost of the premiums, which rise higher and higher as we continue to burden for-profit companies with unprofitable regulations and insureds.

I don't sell (commercial) insurance to businesses who aren't profitable (at least in the long-term), and most businesses that are teetering on the brink don't buy to guess why?

If we agree that everyone needs to have access to complete medical care, then there needs to be Medicare for All. The amount you pay is done per paycheck, just like SS, or like Medicare is now. If you choose to purchase private coverage instead, you can deduct up to the amount you would be taxed or the amount you pay in premiums for that year. Additional insurance, that's up to you.

I work in insurance, and it's a for-profit business. You sell insurance, you invest the premiums and the commissions, and the insurance company wins or loses based on what/whom they've chosen to insure, and how they invest the premiums. Insurance companies shouldn't have mandated burdens to insure already-sick people, they should get to insure who they want. The only regulation (Besides financial) should be there to make sure the insurance companies pay what they owe per claim.

This diary is NOT about defending the (quite frankly) idiots who choose to work at or invest in health insurance companies...there's no possible way that the business model can work, or stay ethical in paying the claims. It's their fault for participating, but it's not their fault they can't be profitable. Don't force for-profit companies to operate in ways that aren't profitable, if doing so won't hurt innocents. How do we keep them from hurting innocents? Medicare for All.

Originally posted to Liberaltarianish on Mon Aug 09, 2010 at 09:59 AM PDT.


What's the most practical and reasonable healthcare payment scenario for the country?

1%1 votes
19%13 votes
6%4 votes
72%48 votes

| 66 votes | Vote | Results

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Comment Preferences

  •  Tip Jar (6+ / 0-)

    Too big to fail = too big to exist.

    by Liberaltarianish on Mon Aug 09, 2010 at 09:59:04 AM PDT

  •  It's not forcing big bad health insurance (0+ / 0-)

    companies to cover's about finding a practical solution that covers everyone, as a infrastructure issue.

    Too big to fail = too big to exist.

    by Liberaltarianish on Mon Aug 09, 2010 at 10:01:02 AM PDT

  •  Preacher, meet choir. nt (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Robobagpiper, Liberaltarianish

    "I was a big supporter of waterboarding" - Dick Cheney 2/14/10

    by Bob Love on Mon Aug 09, 2010 at 10:03:28 AM PDT

    •  I wish that were true, but there (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Pesto, Robobagpiper

      are so many diaries and conversations about "health insurance this" and "high risk pool that". Aren't we wasting our time? Aren't we making these worse, really?

      Too big to fail = too big to exist.

      by Liberaltarianish on Mon Aug 09, 2010 at 10:05:52 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Hard to say. (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        IL JimP

        One of the biggest problems Dailykos has had to face with Obama's election is having to balance the perfect with the "politically feasible."  Before we only had to argue about what was best.  Now we have to worry about whether arguing for what's best won't somehow serve the interests of what's worst by distracting from what's achievable.

        Personally, I think that's a load of hooey, and that the people who voted for Obama are not the same people who get their panties in a bunch whenever entrenched corporate interests are offended.  But that's just me.

        Snarka Snarka Snarka!

        by Hunter Huxley on Mon Aug 09, 2010 at 10:21:42 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  Medical insurance is the most immoral biz (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    publicv, Kurt from CMH
    Medical insurance is the most immoral biz there is, imho.
    •  Gee I dunno, it has lots of competition (0+ / 0-)

      Wall Street firms that push worthless investments on their customers so that they can get them off the firm's books.

      Patent trolls Non-Practicing Entities that threaten to sue using flimsy patents that would still cost their targets millions to defend against, knowning that the courts almost never award defendant costs if the troll loses.

      Big pharma companies that have a vested interest in not curing a disease because it would cut into the profits of their treatments.

      Software companies that end support of very popular products so they can shove new, unpopular versions down their customers' throats.

      Hardware/Software companies that refuse to unbundle their software and sell it separately so customers can run it on much cheaper hardware purchased elsewhere.

      Big energy companies that cut back on safety to save a few million, knowing they won't be prosecuted if they end up killing a bunch of people and animals.

      These are just the ones that come immediately to mind.  Perhaps it would be a good idea to have a group of most immoral companies awards granted each year so that investors and customers know whom they're dealing with.

      Big Joe Helton: "I pay Plenty."
      Chico Marx: "Well, then we're Plenty Tough."

      by Caelian on Mon Aug 09, 2010 at 10:25:30 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  When done wrong , sure . (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      When done right , not so much .

      For medical insurance systems with nearly 100% of the people covered and covered well , look to Switzerland and the Netherlands .

      "He who owns little is little owned." HDT

      by indycam on Mon Aug 09, 2010 at 10:31:20 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Your question... (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    IL JimP

    What's the most practical and reasonable healthcare payment scenario for the country?

    How to answer?

    What's the best in a perfect world?  

    Perhaps it's a "voucher system" in which we all pay for our insurance with increased taxes and then get the ability to choose the company to provide that insurance.  And it would probably include some sort of government run insurance company as well.

    Set good regulations for all policies and then enforce them.

    What's the best answer in the real world?  

    Probably what we just got.  A damn good start.  Take what we got out for a test drive and then modify it as needed.

    Enough of this reality crap. I voted for MAGIC!!!

    by BobTrips on Mon Aug 09, 2010 at 10:10:58 AM PDT

    •  The real world is a fail (0+ / 0-)
      in terms of healthcare access right now.

      Too big to fail = too big to exist.

      by Liberaltarianish on Mon Aug 09, 2010 at 10:19:31 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  But lucky for us... (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Caelian, IL JimP

        We have a brand new health care bill that will be fully in effect in about three years.

        And that will create a brand new 'real world'.

        Not a perfect new real world, but one a hell of a lot better than today's.  And then we'll work to make things even better.

        (Wingers cry in their beer....)

        Enough of this reality crap. I voted for MAGIC!!!

        by BobTrips on Mon Aug 09, 2010 at 10:28:57 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Works pretty well in France, Canada, Japan, ... (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Linnaeus, Silverbird, NY brit expat

        ... Scandinavia, Europe in General, and most of Latin America.  That's because they tax everybody and provide health care in return, so you don't have the USA situation where we have the best health care in the world -- if you can afford it.

        Big Joe Helton: "I pay Plenty."
        Chico Marx: "Well, then we're Plenty Tough."

        by Caelian on Mon Aug 09, 2010 at 10:29:41 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  Fine...... (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    elect a bunch of progressive Dem Senators in the fall and it will be fixed.  Polls say that won't happen so to bad so sad.  Not gonna happen.

    You gotta walk before you can run.  You would be better off directing your energies in getting progressive dems elected first.  Then you can focus on the public option or whatever.

  •  I talked to a doctor this weekend (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    chuckvw, jhecht

    who was complaining that he was called into his boss' office because he was "in the red."  Being "in the red" meant that he wasn't ordering enough unnecessary tests to generate revenue for the clinic, the unspoken piece being that he needed to get out of the red for his boss to get a raise.  For profit hospitals have to go along with insurance companies.

  •  I'll tell you what (0+ / 0-)

    When insurance companies stop making their customers pay the price for their bad investments, we'll give them the right to insure whoever they want.

    I'm not worried about your state of mind, 'cause, you're not the revolutionary kind - Gomez

    by jhecht on Mon Aug 09, 2010 at 10:58:33 AM PDT

  •  It is a rent-seeking industry (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    whose very business model is to deny you the care they purportedly offer.  They are the ultimate in selfish middlemen.  In fact, they use profits from your premiums to bribe politicians into letting them keep up the status quo.  That alone should be a HUGE alarm in your head.  Noone should make money on people's healthcare except doctors.  Health Insurance companies are like multinational Rod Blagos....selling access, then not letting you in the door.  

    Sic Gorgeamous Allos Subjectatos Nunc - Morticia Addams

    by Perdurabo on Mon Aug 09, 2010 at 11:26:23 AM PDT

  •  Seems like a no-brainer to me (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    Not so much Medicare itself, because I think Medicare should have its "lock-box", but I don't see why it wouldn't be so difficult to just have a Medicare-like public option that would be available to anyone who wanted it, or needed it.

    •  I think it's more practical for everyone to pay (0+ / 0-)

      into it, a certain % like other taxes. You can deduct the amount you pay if you get something else comprehensive instead, but obviously it won't be solvent if it's only broke people not paying into it.

      Too big to fail = too big to exist.

      by Liberaltarianish on Mon Aug 09, 2010 at 12:00:28 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I'm not sure that I agree with "solvency" as a (0+ / 0-)

        goal or necessary precondition. We need a social safety net, a means of ensuring that Americans don't unnecessarily suffer without medical care. To the extent that people can afford to pay for their own medical care, why get government involved?

        I like the "option" of a revenue-neutral government plan for those who can afford it just to keep the insurance companies honest, but ultimately, I'm comfortable also with simply paying for the care of those who cannot afford it out of the existing tax system.

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