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Crossposted from Docudharma

Half of the eligible voters in America do not vote.

More than half of America does not vote in Mid Terms.

Not voting does not equal a protest, it equals fading into the wall paper and allowing others to decide your fate....and the fate of the poor....and the fate of Iraqis and Afghans....and now the fate of the planet itself.

It does NOT register as a protest to The Powers That Be.

It registers a victory for The Powers That Be.

The less The People participate in the one way we have left to us to alter or at least affect the world, the more the The Powers That Be rub their hands together in glee.

I understand the impulse, I understand the anger, the despair, the feeling of powerlessness and the urge to send a message. I didn't vote in 1984, lol, in disgust at what America had become, voting for a freaking ACTOR, fer gawds sake. And a bad one at that.

My not voting, my not participating, did not make one whit of difference. In fact things only got progressively (pun intended) worse.

My participating, my making my voice heard, my voting.....makes about exactly one whit of difference. And that one whit is good enough for me.

If you do not vote, no one anywhere will notice.

If, however, you start a movement, write a petition, post diaries, make a web site, make a FUSS ....about why you are choosing to protest the system by not voting......maybe someone WILL notice.

Personally I think it is bad, bad strategy to do exactly what "they" want.

And what they want is to drive as many people out of the political process as possible so that they can run roughshod over everything we hold dear.

On the other hand I can completely empathize with and understand the impulse.

But allow me to reiterate what I think is the most important point. Half the people in America already don't vote.

You not voting will not be taken as a protest.

If it is noticed at all....

It will be taken as a victory.

It will not be noticed except as further evidence that the American People have given up and that "they" have won. It will have exactly no effect other than that.

You starting or participating in a movement to withhold your vote.....and your money....will be noticed, will have an effect, will make at least a whit of difference.

I am not going to condemn anyone for not participating on principle in a system so obviously corrupt. Your vote is yours, do what you feel is right.

My nose is permanently black and blue from holding it every two years to vote for Democrats, for the lesser of two evils.

But I am damned if I am going to let "them" drive ME out of the system.

Originally posted to buhdydharma on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 12:59 PM PDT.

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  •  Tip Jar (317+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Meteor Blades, Roadie, JekyllnHyde, Angie in WA State, chrississippi, Alma, Terri, TXdem, itsbenj, Odysseus, slinkerwink, deben, KingOneEye, Alice in Florida, GreenSooner, Pandora, TrueBlueMajority, nicolemm, mattman, emal, Debby, Shockwave, KateG, DCCyclone, eeff, Voodoo, TarheelDem, RFK Lives, Norwegian Chef, expatjourno, Davidsfr, conchita, Silverleaf, Cassandra77, dvogel001, Pithy Cherub, Aquarius40, samddobermann, Ignacio Magaloni, Clues, Larry Bailey, oceanview, Rudyard, fumie, arreay, jdmorg, Oke, tomephil, Dube, gmb, grannyhelen, churchylafemme, peterborocanuck, BMarshall, On The Bus, Greg in TN, RebeccaG, grrr, Pohjola, walkshills, zerelda, bablhous, Daddy Bartholomew, Irish Patti, Julie Gulden, nailbender, Bluesee, lefthanded, 3goldens, NoMoreLies, snstara, blueyedace2, jiffypop, truong son traveler, grey skies turning to blue, EJP in Maine, reflectionsv37, Viceroy, Heartcutter, Pam from Calif, where4art, Fury, Burned, peteri2, Little Lulu, Skid, mozlover, deep, WisePiper, Ginny in CO, FightTheFuture, sodalis, coolbreeze, Blue Intrigue, psyched, jbfunk, Jim P, reddbierd, RiaD, Knucklehead, gwilson, mjfgates, Kingsmeg, vigilant meerkat, Clytemnestra, ferallike, fat old man, mooshter, Terrapin, pengiep, dewey of the desert, kck, blueoasis, triv33, MJ via Chicago, figleef, bubbanomics, Sagebrush Bob, plf515, ER Doc, soccergrandmom, stlkaper, GiveNoQuarter, Clive all hat no horse Rodeo, Dreaming of Better Days, shaharazade, Statusquomustgo, Granny Doc, pseudopod, Hedwig, Temmoku, markthshark, Little, pale cold, phonegery, Noor B, bluicebank, BeninSC, Loudoun County Dem, dmh44, mamabigdog, DocbytheBay, ColoTim, BruceMcF, puakev, dotcommodity, Mary Mike, ezdidit, DWG, dww44, BobTrips, Kentucky Kid, millwood, gchaucer2, carpunder, pioneer111, uciguy30, Dar Nirron, keikekaze, Predictor, Terra Mystica, roycej, TomP, MKinTN, Blue Boy Red State, kafkananda, rogerdaddy, mconvente, Edger, davidseth, ChocolateChris, kayfromsouth, Indexer, zerone, Senor Unoball, Mr Stagger Lee, Involuntary Exile, elwior, Fe Bongolan, skohayes, jamess, Happy Days, Lujane, royce, SottoVoce, Gemina13, o the umanity, LaEscapee, Blogvirgin, James Kresnik, girlsanger, pelagicray, allie123, priceman, Quilldriver, Robobagpiper, jonnie rae, Stephen Daugherty, rsmpdx, bushondrugs, DeepLooker, ceebee7, rcnewton, divineorder, BigAlinWashSt, dharmasyd, dark daze, maryabein, janmtairy, m4gill4, War on Error, mHainds, zbbrox, asym, ZilV, sanglug, allep10, kevinpdx, Dark UltraValia, seeta08, ohmyheck, MizKit, Tommymac, Edge PA, Leftcandid, Cleopatra, cassandraX, ETF, ZAP210, BigVegan, smileycreek, Bull Schmitt, jsfox, pyegar, p gorden lippy, GBC, icemilkcoffee, TFinSF, dorkenergy, LaughingPlanet, eXtina, pdx kirk, secret38b, freeport beach PA, Lady Libertine, FeDhu, elginblt, ItsSimpleSimon, Benintn, ThisIsMyTime, anonevent, nickrud, Funkygal, sluggahjells, Publius2008, swansong50, roystah, CA Berkeley WV, Oh Mary Oh, wabird, JClarkPDX, BrowniesAreGood, CornSyrupAwareness, redlum jak, DemandTruth, Front Toward Enemy, coquiero, StateofEuphoria, Bob Duck, dsmmom, atheistben, MaikeH, vahana, BlueJessamine, Mistral Wind, asterkitty, Situational Lefty, kevin k, majii, Cinnamon Rollover, Escamillo, badscience, Wolf10, RadicalRoadRat, dle2GA, akmk, Flaming Liberal for Jesus, Vtdblue, healthy, The Rational Hatter, Calvino Partigiani, Aquagranny911, lincoln deschain, daveusf, blue aardvark, SocialPunk, primaryarlen, RLMiller, Lucy2009, ParkRanger, CalliopeIrjaPearl, quetta physics, matrix, halful, dance you monster, flhiii88, Eric Nelson, toilpress, Hopefruit2, Miep, Lonely Texan, Joieau, Liberaltarianish, jan4insight, teabaggerssuckbalz, TheProudProgressive, Johnny the Conqueroo
    •  I agree with you. (43+ / 0-)

      People that I knew from many different social or business associations who used to say that voting was worthless and that there was no substantive difference between the parties used to astound me.  I found it to be an incomprensible attitude.  Today, I do understand that point of view, though I don't share it.

      You are right that a combination of confusion and propaganda is mainly geared toward discouraging participation in any meaningful sense while at the same time advocating citizen involvement in the process.

      Ironically you site 1984 as an example.
      Our entire society is being played, but we can't just withdraw and give up the rights that we have left.

      And be these juggling fiends no more believ'd, That palter with us in a double sense; .....

      by blueoasis on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 01:29:51 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Some Segment of the Electorate (56+ / 0-)

        ... is always angry or pissed off about something.  That -- or any other perceived or real disappointments with our leaders -- shouldn't prevent any of us from voting.

        Gary Varvel
        Gary Varvel, (Indianapolis Star-News)

        •  but still (27+ / 0-)

          it's like ordering from a menu with only two items.

          shitburger or turd sandwich.

          mm mmm mmmmmmmm

          (regarding the bank mess) They want to cure the patient but not deal with the disease.

          by dark daze on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 02:07:38 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Bullshit! (10+ / 0-)

            You are starving and given a choice:

            Hog shit on a plate

            Fried hog sphincters on a plate

            No difference?

            Of course you can just walk away and starve in protest. Nobody will give a shit. Hell, they may be busy dividing up the whole hog without your messy whining.

            A bit crude and to the point.

            The current difference between most Republicans and most Democrats right now is more like the shit on a plate and a good tripe at the least.

            The only foes that threaten America are the enemies at home, and those are ignorance, superstition, and incompetence. [Elbert Hubbard]

            by pelagicray on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 02:13:45 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Or I could support the new sandwich shop down the (11+ / 0-)


              There might be only two parties in America.  But there are a myriad of politicians, only some of who will get my money, my time, and - least important of the the three - my vote.  

              I'll vote for an crappy Democrat in a GE if I must.  But I can't name too many incumbent Democrats that I will support in a primary.

              Primaries are my favored forum for protest voting.

              "If you can find money to kill people, you can find money to help people." -Tony Benn (-6.38,-6.36)

              by The Rational Hatter on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 03:43:54 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  I won't go out of my way to vote (2+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                CTPatriot, zedaker

                like I did for Obama last time. I waited in line for hours.

                I now know I was fed the bullshit with a tripe salad and now am supposed to be enthusiastic about voting for Obamna again? That won't happen. When served a shit sandwhich its memory lingers for a very long time.

                I know the "Democratic" party is marginally better than Republicans and if I don't have anything pressing that day I might go in and vote. If I don't it really doesn't matter in the long run anyway no matter how passionate the diaries become closer to election day.

                I was motivated to see real change. Now that it is clear that will not happen the motivation is gone. Thanks for the diary but I just can't see a better future by settling for bullshit.

                •  won't be hours to vote this time, so youre cool. (7+ / 0-)

                  Some places even let you vote early or by mail.

                  Aperture Science. We do what we must, because we can.

                  by lincoln deschain on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 06:13:24 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                •  I can't agree... (10+ / 0-)

                  I know the "Democratic" party is marginally better than Republicans

                  Consider that Michele Bachmann and Steve King are the new mainstream of Republican officeholders. The "Teapartiers" are demanding that the rest of them toe that same line. Even the lamest of our Democratic Congressmen are waaaay better. Even though Obama hasn't come close to living up to his promise, he's way better than McCain would have been. It used to be true that there was little real difference between the average Republican and the average Democrat, but that Overton window has been moving steadily for years, and the moderate, reasonable Republicans have virtually all been driven from politics by the wingnuts. There's no "marginal" difference anymore; some Democrats are good, some are bad, but the Republicans are all terrible.

                  -5.12, -5.23

                  We are men of action; lies do not become us.

                  by ER Doc on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 06:26:00 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  My cynicism is not directed at individuals (2+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    JekyllnHyde, zedaker

                    but the party as a whole.

                    No doubt there are outstanding Democrats who deserve strong support locally. The voters are lucky to be able to influence real change in their districts.

                    For many of us though we have lived in red states for years with our voices in local elections drowned out by the "christian conservatives" large majorities.

                    The presidential elections are really the only time our votes are of consequence. To be snubbed by those we had such high hopes for and voted for stings.

                    We know very well the consequences of republican rule. We hade been under their boot for 30 plus years.

                    •  consider blue blue NY (0+ / 0-)

                      charles rangle is a crook.  

                      and yet the dems all just showed up at his fund raiser


                      The party supports criminal behavior when it is done by one of the "electeds" in their party.  

                      how dare those people show up at a fundraiser for him?  Actually why wouldn't they, because the voters in NY apparently don't care, have never cared and will keep voting for criminal behavior if the suits look good enough.

                      dems no different than repubs. Once they get in the inner circle they defend each other and reap the huge rewards. and many are stealing from the average people.  And I believe the dems were complicit in the decision recently to reduce the payments for foodstamps since they say food will be cheaper in 2014.

                      yeah democrats in NY.  Supporting criminals. Sucking up to Wall Steet.  Selling out the average american.  Welcome to the new democratic party. Oh  yeah, the president doesn't want anyone to primary the unelected Senator Gillibrand.  Yeah, democracy!

                      •  Charles Rangle has not been proven guilty (0+ / 0-)

                        and he is going all out to force the truth to become public.

                        •  wake up (0+ / 0-)

                          I remember when all those dems were yelling that we needed to support Eliot Spitzer because he'd been unfairly targeted. How did that work out?

                          are you familiar with what happened in the past year with NY Dems in the state senate? There is the guy who was opening stealing money from taxpayers and then there was the guy who bloodied up his girlfriend. Top notch democrats.

                          wake up.  you do yourself a disservice by supporting criminal behavior just because it is your "team".  

                          •  I don't get your point. If Rangle was unethical, (0+ / 0-)

                            we will find out soon enough. Are you saying that you think Rangle hit his girlfriend because some other Democrat did?

                          •  no (0+ / 0-)

                            i'm not saying he hit his girlfriend.  i'm saying that they no longer deserve the benefit of the doubt. You will notice how the guy who bloodied up his girlfriend is still a part of the democratic party in NY.  Which is why I am looking to become an independent after a lifetime of being a dem. Where is Shelly Silver on this?  quiet as a mouse. a well paid corrupt mouse.  But still quiet.  What the hell, it wasn't his daughter, right?

                            gillibrand, shumer and cuomo are a joke.

                            The guy has been there forever and he cheats the taxpayers.  That has already been proven. "oh, i'm sorry i didn't know i needed to declare that income".

                            yeah, you are in charge of making tax laws for the rest of us but you can't follow them.


                            I'm saying Rangle is a crook because he is.  Just like most of the Republicans and Democrats he regularly lunches with on the lobbyist's dime.  

                            Try not to act too surprised when the "truth" comes out about Rangel.

                            If you are still defending these crooks and giving them the benefit of your doubt, you are a sucker.

                          •  Defending -- no. Benefit of the doubt -- yes. (0+ / 0-)

                            I think that you and I agree more than we disagree. You and I both think that the Democratic Party does not represent the American people but instead represents the interests of those who can donate the most. I just don't think that Rangle is any different now then he was a year ago, or that this particular corruption (should it pan out) separates him from anyone else.  

                            I wasn't aware of a decision to cut food stamps and would appreciate a link

                          •  By the way, I agree with you about the (0+ / 0-)

                            Dems (& Repubs) & Wall Street. It is disgusting. I just don't like it when someone is accused but not yet tried, and people run away because they are cowards.

                •  The "real change" you are expecting.... (3+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  JekyllnHyde, ravenwind, pelagicray

                  is going to take a lot longer than 2 years!!!
                  Try two decades.
                  Bush and his cronies did a lot of damage.

                  I look at what has been accomplshed by this administration in less than two years and compare it to the direction we were going in the 8 years previous.

                  How can any rational progressive possibly countenance any other course than to vote - and to get out the vote - against the GOP?

                  faith is no substitute for empirical evidence

                  by Rudyard on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 08:58:37 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

              •  but can the new sandwich shop expand... (0+ / 0-)

                into a good big sandwich shop?

                Here's my worry: A movement starts up with good leadership, good intentions, the right stands on the issues. It gains momentum and support from voters. When it threatens to become a force, politicians start climbing on board, along with people who like to go with an apparent winner, regardless of the platform.

                Then, as the membership grows, centrism takes over and the issues become secondary, then unimportant. Gaining power for the new movement is all that matters. If it takes abandoning the origins of the new "sandwich shop" then that's unfortunate but necessary. It'll be more important to safeguard the profits and if the old sandwich shop has to be accused of poisoning its customers, so be it.

                I know this scenario is hard to imagine! But it could happen.

              •  I did that and it didn't work: Halter. (9+ / 0-)

                I did not vote for Bill Halter since I don't live in Arkansas but I send money to his campaign which is almost as good, but alas not good enough. He did not win. Why not? It seem like over 50% of the voting Arkansas population does not share my ideals or other liberal ideals.

                So I am thinking... many of the professional LEFT do not want to vote because they don't like the menu, but what do they offer as an alternative? Whining, Tantrums. How does that help anyone.

                I agre with the diarist. At least start a movement to for example EDUCATE the American electorate about progressive ideals, that progressive ideals are not radical or dangerous, but make sense and are beneficial for all.

                Some people WANT IT NOW and WANT IT ALL OR NOTHING! They remind me of my 11-year-old daughter.

                by healthy on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 05:29:20 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  I'll back Halter again. (2+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  JekyllnHyde, healthy

                  Or I'll back whomever is the next good candidate to come along.  I'm a Progressive.  I'll work for Progress.  

                  Mourn for Halter if you like but don't forget about Sestak.

                  "If you can find money to kill people, you can find money to help people." -Tony Benn (-6.38,-6.36)

                  by The Rational Hatter on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 09:10:32 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                •  I voted for Halter (3+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  JekyllnHyde, pelagicray, healthy

                  I gave him money, and we still came up short.  I don't like it but come November I will vote for Lincoln because I know too well what her opponent is like.  Worst case is Boozeman wins and that opens the spot up for Halter next time (if we are still around then)  I tend to cut Obama and others a little slack, when you look at the big picture this nation has been taking the  slow walk off the cliff for the last 30 years.  I personally will give it a little more time than 2 years to get back on track.  But if the Republicans get back in power them we kiss all this good by.

                  Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel. - Samuel Johnson

                  by tkwasny on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 09:14:24 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

              •  I'm going to eat over at Grayson's (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                The Rational Hatter

                Heard his customers are satisfied and does his work with passion!

                When we got into office, the thing that surprised me most was to find that things were just as bad as we'd been saying they were. -JFK

                by optimusprime on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 08:38:11 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

              •  Rational? (0+ / 0-)

                Throwing your vote to a "new sandwich shop down the street" in this case means a splinter party or obscure third party with no realistic chance in national and most state elections. Therefore it is nothing more than self satisfied walking away.

                Not voting does not equal a protest, it equals fading into the wall paper and allowing others to decide your fate....and the fate of the poor....and the fate of Iraqis and Afghans....and now the fate of the planet itself.

                Applies because nobody will really notice beyond some little mention in the news and historic record along the lines of "and 3% of the vote went to . . ." only of interest to historians of obscure electoral facts.

                The idea of making a real difference voting for a splinter party in a general or even important primary is a dreamer's world. It is as realistic as being in a place with the described menu choice and dreaming there were a third choice with a club sandwich on the menu. Ain't there! Result of following the dream is starvation and in American politics often the margin that lets the shit win.

                The fact is that this country has a system of government not particularly friendly to multiparty politics and has pretty solidly evolved into a two party system with occasional major shifts--and I do hope the GOP joins the Whigs. That is a hard fact of life and we have to deal with it or pretty much be idle dreamers.

                The only foes that threaten America are the enemies at home, and those are ignorance, superstition, and incompetence. [Elbert Hubbard]

                by pelagicray on Tue Aug 17, 2010 at 04:36:16 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

            •  How many litmus tests (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:

              does a candidate have to pass to get your vote?

              Obama has done a lot of things I like. He's done a lot of things I don't like, too. I'm sure he will do more of each. But he's competent, takes the job seriously, and hasn't gotten us into another war.

              Call it a shit sandwich if you like, but I call it democracy.

          •  Well, If You Feel the Choices Are Limited (41+ / 0-)

            ... there are a number of things you could do.  I could list numerous items but here are three suggestions:

            1. Work for campaigns and support candidates that you feel will advance the ball.
            1. Run for office yourself.  Start at the school board level, move up to county, city, state, and national office.  At least give it a try.
            1. Raise hell through issue-oriented organizations to pressure state or national legislators.

            I don't mean to sound harsh but democracy is not a one-way, passive process like watching mindless programming on television.  Moreover, this Tweedledee and Tweedledum argument doesn't really achieve anything.  The choices at hand are also a reflection of the electorate.

            •  I would (8+ / 0-)

              take issue with that very last sentence (something I don't think I've ever had with one of your posts, btw ;))

              The choices at hand are also a reflection of the electorate.

              I think if you asked around, a lot of Democrats would tell you they didn't like any of the choices for--example, POTUS for 2008. In this, the choices we had were a reflection of bank accounts, hubris (or if you prefer, ego), and whether or not the choices had the stomach to be put through the Propaganda Grinder for two years.

              It's probably a few other things, too, but I absolutely do not see where "the reflection of the electorate" comes into play.

              Within the current administration wishy-wash cycles, I've given up on "bully pulpitry".

              by o the umanity on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 04:18:02 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  Being Passive Won't Solve the Problem, Either (6+ / 0-)

                So, when I say candidates reflect the electorate, it is true by either default or design.  

                A lot of people think of politics as a spectator sport.  It isn't.  If someone doesn't like a set of candidates or issues and feels the urge to criticize the available choices, it is incumbent upon them to do something, i.e. support better candidates, run for office, start a movement or revolution, protest out in the streets, or change the system from within.  Whatever it is, one should take action and I'll respect that person more for trying.  Being a critic of anything is probably one of the easiest -- if not the easiest -- thing in life to do.

                You say the choices were not appealing in 2008.  How could you or anyone else have made them better?  By doing something about it.  If you (I mean you in the generic sense) didn't, then by default that (in)action in itself contributed to a candidate emerging who very well may not have if enough people had worked to encourage a better candidate.  I say all of this having worked in several national, state, and local campaigns.  Being a candidate (particularly at the national level) is one of the most difficult things in American life to do.  

                •  now that helps a lot! (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:

                  So, when I say candidates reflect the electorate,

                  it is true by either default or design

                  Thanks for the clarity, that makes more sense now (esp. coming from you ;)).

                  I'm firmly in the 'design' category, and I don't think The People get to design it anymore--I think we get pre-approved candidates, designed by someone or something out of our control.

                  And yes, we "let" this happen, but IMO, the only way to stop it is to get in the streets en masse. But we haven't fallen far enough for everyone to be on that page (well, we have, but the likes of FOX News have thrown myriad roadblocks into America's thought processes...)

                  Within the current administration wishy-wash cycles, I've given up on "bully pulpitry".

                  by o the umanity on Tue Aug 17, 2010 at 10:32:26 AM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

              •  It's in the fact that WE allow this to be (2+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                JekyllnHyde, bushondrugs

                as it is with the limited choices we get. Yes the game is rigged generally against non-wealthy contention, but in essence we allow that to happen as well.

                "Its a grave digger's song, Praising God and State. So the Nation can live, So we all can remain as cattle. They demand a sacrifice..." -Flipper

                by Skid on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 05:17:02 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

            •  That last sentence is exactly on (4+ / 0-)


              We all differ in ways that matter. But we're all the same in the ways that matter most.

              by plf515 on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 04:53:04 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  As a Virginian, like pelagicray, I know that (6+ / 0-)

                last sentence is also exactly on target. We have two blue dogs, Webb who is a reformed Republican and Warner who as Governor made Virginia the best state for business. They are the only flavor of Democrats we can get here despite the overwhelming number of Dems in Northern Virginia, Richmond, Blacksburg and Charlottesville.

                The decreasing majority of our state's population are inclined toward Republicans. We can't get better than Blue Dog Dems at this point. We have Lynchburg aka Falwellvile, Pat Robertson's Regent University in VA Beach and 22 Hate Groups according to the SPLC. So we have NeoCons like Eric Cantor and a Governor like McDonnell and an AG like Kookinelli.

                The choices are a reflection of the electorate and I hold up Virginia as an example of this.

                The beatings will continue until morale improves. -8.50, -6.92

                by ferallike on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 05:10:16 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  What would happen (3+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  JekyllnHyde, oceanview, ferallike

                  if, somehow, the Democrat in VA got 80% of the vote?

                  Bye blue dog positions, hello liberal ones.

                  We all differ in ways that matter. But we're all the same in the ways that matter most.

                  by plf515 on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 05:13:12 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  One would hope so (5+ / 0-)

                    Bye blue dog positions, hello liberal ones.

                    But with the exception of Mark Warner's Senatorial election in 2008, we have always had very, very close elections for governor, LT Gov, AG and our Senators. There was a recount in the Webb/ Macaca Allen race and Webb won by roughly 300 votes.

                    We have a lot of low info voters in the western and southern part of the state and they add the deep red to our Blue in our purple state.

                    God knows I've tried and will keep trying until my dying day to turn this state completely blue. For 27 years I have work the phone banks, I canvassed unless my asthma prevented it and worked the polls every year except one when I was sick in the early 90s. I helped voter registration drives every year since 2000 (we have elections for Governor along with NJ the year following the Presidential election.)

                    I hope one day to see Virginia more blue but as long as we have so many Republicans in the rural areas of the state, it will be a very tough battle.

                    One day I hope we will see it go blue

                    The beatings will continue until morale improves. -8.50, -6.92

                    by ferallike on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 05:27:39 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                •  The same thing could be said about Arkansas (2+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  JekyllnHyde, ferallike

                  I voted for Halter in the primary and helped him out with money, initially with the hope that a strong primary challenger would send a message to Lincoln.  Bill Halter has a lot of good ideas but he is not anywhere a liberal as people on this site.  He is a fairly moderate Dem.  I still think he would have done better than Lincoln but he is no Liberal Lion, and if he was he would never be elected in Arkansas. I have lived my entire adult life in very Red areas of the country. Every election I see my vote not mean crap when the Conservative candidates win by such huge margins, but I always remember the old saying, "If you don't vote then you don't have the right to complain about the outcome!"

                  Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel. - Samuel Johnson

                  by tkwasny on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 09:37:25 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

            •  All "solutions" in name only. (5+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Odysseus, oceanview, gmb, bablhous, NoMoreLies

              The important thing is to organize resistance at all levels, especially around pocket book issues.  

              We need to organize the unemployed and working poor and commence with our own Bonus March.  

              We need to form our own unions that operate outside of the parameters of the collaborationists in the establishment unions.

              We need to form local cooperatives as alternatives to the prevailing master/slave relationship of capitalist work relations.

              We need to form alternative educational institutions for the purpose of awakening resistance in ordinary workers.  

              We need to turn up the heat on Wall Street, strategically allying with the sane elements of the petty-bourgeoisie on this issue to highlight the reality of the rentiers war against Main Streat.

              The supremacy of finance capital over all other forms of capital means the rule of the rentier and of the financial oligarchy -- Lenin (1917)

              by GiveNoQuarter on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 05:17:04 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  One solution that works: Educate the people. (3+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                JekyllnHyde, Cassandra77, Rudyard

                Corporations & their GOP buddies and their Fox NEws, Rush Limbaugh sound machine are misinforming the public and scaring them to death about RADICAL progressives ideals.

                Progresssive ideals are not radical, they are common sense and beneficial to all, but only a minority knows that which is why you can't win elections or even pass laws as a progressive.

                For people who say Obama primised a progressive agenda and people voted for him... therefore many people support progressive ideals, well, they have never heard of the phrase "Correlation does not imply causation". People may have voted for Obama to express their displeasure with Bush and the GOP economy. And Obama was not "that" progressive either, he did not campaign on a single-payer health care system, he did say he thinks marriage is between man +woman, he said he would continue the war in Afghanistan. As a progressive, however, I don't hate him for not being progressive enough. I think he would be ore progressive if the country would allow it. But the country needs to first be educated into becoming progressive.

                Some people WANT IT NOW and WANT IT ALL OR NOTHING! They remind me of my 11-year-old daughter.

                by healthy on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 06:06:03 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

              •  Terrific (5+ / 0-)

                I am reminded of a volunteer who worked in my group once in a presidential campaign.  She was in her mid-60's and gave almost 20-25 hours per week despite not being in good health.  Once in a while she'd mention her husband and said that he was really interested in electoral politics.  One day I asked her if she'd bring him along to volunteer as we needed help.  She answered, "Oh, my husband's doesn't do this kind of stuff.  He's a political pundit!"

                I'm assuming you are more than just a pundit.  So, start the union, local cooperative, and educational institutions.  Publicize them here and elsewhere.  Solicit support for them.

                And I, and I'm sure many others, will support your efforts.  

                •  If I had a million dollars... (2+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  JekyllnHyde, Cassandra77

                  I'm sure he knows its easier to say than it is to do. But he can't do it alone. He probably couldn't do it with a little bit of help. I agree with him that all those things are good. I'd like to start a regional green AGindusry co-op myself(no idea how...but still). And that'd take just as much people power as it would money and maybe gov't support. So while he might be able to name the prescription, it's going to take quite a number of hands to get that cure.

                  But we can get it, if we don't slide backward.

                  Aperture Science. We do what we must, because we can.

                  by lincoln deschain on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 06:25:43 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

              •  IIRC, Patton fired on (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:

                the veterans of the bonus march. against direct orders. for that, he later was made a multi-starred general when he should have been court-martialed.

                "Liberalism is trust of the people, tempered by prudence; conservatism, distrust of people, tempered by fear." Gladstone, Me -8.88/-7.08

                by zedaker on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 09:24:32 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

            •  I did that #1. What if that doesn't work? (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:

              I supported Halter's campaign by donating money and in spirit, by just wishing really hard that he beats that abominable Lincoln creature.

              Seems like more 50% do not support progressive ideals in some parts of the country.

              What know? Should I throw a tantrum? Or Whine as I am just doing. Should I hate Obama for supporting Lincoln? Should I declare I will not vote for Dems ever again?

              Or should I wait for the next progressive candidate to come around to support him as well - only to see him defeated because NOBODY has a clue that the #1 solution to move a progressive agenda forward is to EDUCATE the people first about progressive ideals. The #1 solution is to combat the Fox, Rush, Palin, tea bag disinformation machine! And who's doing that? Definitely not the progressive who say they will not vote.

              Some people WANT IT NOW and WANT IT ALL OR NOTHING! They remind me of my 11-year-old daughter.

              by healthy on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 05:57:48 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

          •  My choice this cycle... (12+ / 0-)

            Russ Feingold or Ron "Plastic Man" Johnson. Only one POS in that equation.

            The lesson of that history is that you must not despair, that if you are right, and you persist, things will change. -Howard Zinn

            by blueyedace2 on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 02:42:22 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          •  That's ridiculous (11+ / 0-)

            it's just plain ridiculous.  

            To say that many Democrats are not progressive or liberal enough is correct.

            But to say there is no difference between Democrats and Republicans is ridiculous.

            We all differ in ways that matter. But we're all the same in the ways that matter most.

            by plf515 on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 04:45:34 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  lots of differences but they're exaggerated (6+ / 0-)

              We got through 8 horrid years of W. As I see it, the last year and a half is better only in that we've avoided two more bad Supreme Court choices.

              In a recent NBC News poll the Democratic Party nationally got a 33% positive rating, compared to the Republicans' 24%.

              Sometimes we, as Democrats, think it should be Dems 100%, Repubs 0% but that's not the case overall. I'm certainly not saying anything about the Republicans is good. But I'm not going to live in fear of Republicans as they'd like us to live in fear of terrorists.

            •  Exactly. (7+ / 0-)

              But to say there is no difference between Democrats and Republicans is ridiculous.

              That was Nader's canard, and thanks to him we got Roberts and Alito on the Supreme Court.  Does anyone want to argue that Al Gore wouldn't have done better?  Or the debacle that is Iraq?  Or any number of other examples I can come up with?  Really?

              Sorry, but sometimes you just have to hold your nose and go with the lesser of the two evils.  As disappointed as we might be with Obama, do you really think this country would be half as well off right now with McCain in the WH?

              "But it does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are twenty gods or no God. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg." Thomas Jefferson

              by PerryA on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 05:35:15 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

      •  you're right, but (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:

        i will no longer vote for the lesser of two evils as a matter of course. that's still an evil. if a third option is available and better than the either of the usual two, i'll take it. refusing to vote for a rep or a dem in a given race is not refusing to vote. it's rejecting the offerings.

        "Liberalism is trust of the people, tempered by prudence; conservatism, distrust of people, tempered by fear." Gladstone, Me -8.88/-7.08

        by zedaker on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 09:11:36 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  Tip'd. Did you mean to emphasize ARE instead (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      of NOT in your title?

      Too big to fail = too big to exist.

      by Liberaltarianish on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 01:47:48 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  This is the message that resonates with (12+ / 0-)

      progressives that don't want to vote.

      Most of the other arguments around here with the same intent only piss off people who are flirting with staying home.

      Try looking at things another way.

      by atheistben on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 02:01:25 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I WANT to piss off the people who stay home. (0+ / 0-)

        If they are gonna be staying home and saddling the rest of us with Republican nightmares, at the very least they should be miserable.

        Let's make THAT a movement!

          • Beck, Hannity, O'Reilly FREAK SHOW Stickers •••

        by KingOneEye on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 08:25:18 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •   I think there is a enormous and powerful (9+ / 0-)

      difference between millions of people not voting for a particular party, and millions of people saying loud and clear to that party: "we guarantee will give you millions of votes, more than enough to tip the scale...... once you have done a or b or c or d or any combination of those things, and as soon as we see that you've done that you can relax in the confidence that you have won even before election day arrives, otherwise you've already lost and you might as well tell your corporate donors now that their money has been pissed away for absolutely nothing and that you were an utter and pathetic waste of their time, and quit campaigning".

      It takes planning, and it takes a determination to make decisions not out of fear but out of the power and leverage you know you have, but have only if you use it.

      The best that can happen with this approach is beyond your wildest dreams, and the worst that can happen with this is that if nobody else does it while you do you won't be defending yourself after the fact for having voted for people who could have done their jobs but wouldn't.

      IOW, If You ARE Not Going to Vote...Make it a Movement. And a credible threat. Not a bluff.

      Antemedius: Liberally Critical Thinking

      by Edger on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 02:18:45 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  The problem is losing ground, let alone (9+ / 0-)

        any momentum in political power. First, there is virtually no chance to push really progressive legislation between now and this election, against a GOP senate that has already carried obstructionism to an irrational and illogical level. The house is clearly going to be more obstructionist for the remainder of the session also.

        If people don't vote because they want to send that message to their representatives, and we lose too many seats in either or both houses (worse if we loose the House majority) how will they vote the next time? How much progress will we make, if any? How much more watered down any legislation that is passed? If their Dem rep doesn't win, they lose ANY chance of making the one that does vote progressive.

        The sewer that politics and governing have become for Dems is having to choose how far center you have to talk and vote to keep your seat.  For GOP, it's how far crazy. For both, how far in support of the corporate/financial powers. For the Dems to make any progress or stem any backsliding, they have to at least retain control of both houses this election.

        How much progress, how quickly it can be made will depend on many things that we can't foresee now. More natural or economic disasters?  

        I look at this political crawl out of the corporate/financial power strangle-hold as analogous to tacking (sailing against the wind) and switch backing (mountain climbing). Each turn brings you only a short distance further. To make your destination, you pretty much have to keep up the back and forth, or quit.

        Football can be won by making many short yardage gains as long as you keep making the 10 yard increments. The sport has become increasingly focused on the faster passing game. Eventually we have to get to that form more often. Until the power dynamic of the other team - corporate, media, government- is brought down, I don't see a passing game as anything but a risky,  losing strategy.

        Too much sanity may be madness. The maddest of all is to see the world as it is and not as it should be. Don Quixote "Man of La Mancha"

        by Ginny in CO on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 03:07:45 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  The majority of responses to that message draws (13+ / 0-)

          boil down to "but... but... republicans!!!" Thank you for not waving that old fear flag.

          Most of the remainder of the responses I get are, like yours, an attempt to justify "give them more time".

          The democrats won the 2006 midterms effectively by running on an end the Iraq war platform. The first major thing they did afterwards was to betray the voters with the first energy supplemental passed by a democratic congress. The result was a folding of hands by the fake democratic antiwar movement who showed themselves to be really only interested in democratic wins, but not in progressive results.

          You've already lost all the ground you were afraid of losing while the democrats have had years to "incrementalize" their way into producing good progressive results. They haven't done so, and you now have an effectively republican congress and president.

          That Democrats are politicians and being politician will do whatever it takes to win the votes they need means that the fear of republicans or the fear of losing ground is a phantom fear if enough people threaten the dems with extreme loss of votes unless and until they do something useful to win those votes back, which they will do because they are politicians and they need those votes to survive politically.

          It's an eyeball to eyeball poker game right down to election day, and it cannot be a bluff from the voters.

          People have to be strong enough to say to the dems - "Look, if you're going to ACT like republicans then we're going to let republicans have your jobs your fools - now get busy and PRODUCE some useful progressive legislation or you're history. Come back when you've produced, and I guarantee you my vote" - and mean it.

          The dems will do it, and if on the off chance they're too stupid to do it then they aren't worth your vote anyway.

          It's called voting for results instead of promises.

          Obama and the democrats might finally wake up and realize they need the independent and liberal votes they've thrown away since inauguration day last year, and that all the corporate donations in the world aren't going to save them without those votes, and start producing some useful progressive legislation and pass it in time for the midterms.

          They could have independents and liberals all across the country rewarding them for results instead of turning their backs on empty promises and the largest landslides in history this November with just a few simple moves.

          Creating and passing an actual, real, universal single payer health care bill and rolling back the bailout of the insurance industry for example might do it all by itself, for example.

          Although they could probably sew it right up it for themselves by also starting torture and war crimes trials for Bush and Cheney, while withdrawing from Iraq and Afghanistan and breaking up the big Wall Street investment banks and doing Ken Lay numbers on Goldman Sachs's Lloyd Blankfein and Magnetar's Alec Litowitz, while firing Tim Geithner, Ben Bernanke, and Rahm Emanuel, and now Robert Gibbs, too.

          They've got 3 whole months, after all.

          Dems are smart people, right? They should be at least half as smart as all those independent and progressives who won't vote for them unless they do those things, right?

          After all, Obama and the democrats can't possibly be stupid enough to actually believe that independents and liberals are stupid enough to to vote to continue being screwed by them, can they?

          And really, all they really need to do is just one of those things and the republicans would be history in November.

          This is not a sport. It is, however, the future of the country, and a choice of who rules it. Bought and paid for politicians. Or voters.

          Antemedius: Liberally Critical Thinking

          by Edger on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 03:26:21 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Typo correction (4+ / 0-)

            Third paragraph should read "emergency supplemental", not "energy supplemental".

            Antemedius: Liberally Critical Thinking

            by Edger on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 03:43:06 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          •  The GOP is well known for considering (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            zedaker, geraldlaslo

            politics a sport that they will win no matter how many rules they have to break.

            I know and do not like the many specifics you cite on how the dems have done pretty much the opposite of what they were elected for. They have done a lot of it before and since '94.

            The '06 Congress had Bush's veto pen and signing statements to deal with, not to mention the '08 vote.

            Too many of the current Dem incumbents have learned their political strategies during the era of GOP domination, media misrepresentation and the increasing power of those who are out to make sure Capital owns Labor. They are afraid and they are not getting the message that enough of the electorate has changed their support to risk voting as they should. Perhaps they learned the democratic voters are too fickle too trust when it comes to showing up to vote. Yes, way too many are just as indebted to the corporate/financial masters as the GOP is.

            The biggest goal we have to achieve next is public campaign finance reform, including destroying Citizens United. Without that, the chances of us ever getting a solid percentage of progressive candidates elected becomes really slim.

            In The Rhetoric of Reaction: Perversity, Futility, Jeopardy Hirschman identifies the ways conservatives have argued against liberal and progressive movements for centuries. However I see elements of futility and jeopardy in both sides of this debate.

            I think what we are trying to figure out, as accurately as possible, is what the situation is, and then determine our best course of action. I am arguing that in some circumstances, incrementalism is probably the only reasonably successful option.

            There are circumstances that make the more forceful, not giving any ground the best. (As an RN, I've taken on more than a few doctors to get a patient better, safer care.)

            And some might call for some of each. This could be one of those. As I commented below, it doesn't seem effective at all to stay home on election day. There are many congressional, governor and other races being decided. In Colorado's GOP primary there was a huge turnout. In the Governor's race, 19,000 voters refused to register a vote and I didn't even hear much about write ins. The GOP has virtually ignored the winner.

            Calculation for those debating a NOTA or write in vote. Follow the polls to see if the Dem candidate has a reasonable lead. If not, keeping a Dem in the office may be preferable to the alternative to that voter in that specific election. If the Dem does have a comfortable margin, any form of not participating in that specific vote while casting votes in others does send a message the pols will hear and understand.

            Too much sanity may be madness. The maddest of all is to see the world as it is and not as it should be. Don Quixote "Man of La Mancha"

            by Ginny in CO on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 04:24:11 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Well, if you want to do what the GOP (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              zedaker, geraldlaslo

              tells you do do and consider politics a sport, be my guest.

              At the end of the show, when you have democrats who are still effectively being republicans because you convinced all your friends to vote for them no matter how badly they screwed you producing republican policies out of fear that republicans might screw you as badly as democrats who would not produce any useful progressive legislation to be worthy of your vote because not enough people would pressure them by standing up and saying this is my country and I rule it and you have my vote if and when you produce, don't complain that it is the fault of the people who didn't clap loud enough to suit you.

              Again, at the end of  the day, this is not a sport. It is, however, the future of the country, and a choice of who rules it. Bought and paid for politicians. Or voters. Take your pick.

              Antemedius: Liberally Critical Thinking

              by Edger on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 04:38:28 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  If you are going into a fight, you had best know (0+ / 0-)

                how your opponent fights. I do NOT think politics should be win - lose. To not take the GOP strategy seriously is a BIG mistake.

                I gave up trying to wrap my brain around that run on sentence.

                I am particularly put off by "at the end of the day."  If that is as far into the future as you plan, it is very short sighted. And if you really don't mean 'a day', don't use the phrase.

                The strategy that I am trying to advocate, which you undoubtedly will not see as viable, is to plan over several election cycles. Initially you will end up with some of the same conservadems. We certainly did with Bennett. But we scared the guy and Udall may actually pay a little more attention to his constituents. Whether their votes get any better remains to be seen. You want us to let Ken Buck take it? Seriously?

                As I pointed out, between '04 and and '10, seriously progressive primary challengers in our senate races went from losing by 28 points to 8. Romanoff pulled that off with minimal financial resources and a ton of grass roots volunteers countering paid and unpaid OFA workers. That's one election cycle. Romanoff was polling ahead or dead heats with the GOP candidates. I doubt he would have had trouble beating Buck.

                There are really deep red states with conservadem Senators and Blue Dog Congress Critters that will likely take more than two cycles. The sooner we start...

                As I said elsewhere, epic fictional battles of good and evil are very black and white. Real world battles can be black and gray.

                No it isn't sports, it isn't simplified fiction either.

                Too much sanity may be madness. The maddest of all is to see the world as it is and not as it should be. Don Quixote "Man of La Mancha"

                by Ginny in CO on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 07:50:18 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

            •  and if you guess wrong? Your little (0+ / 0-)

              protest could hurt a whole of people.

              I'm asking you to believe. Not in my ability to bring about real change in Washington ... I'm asking you to believe in yours. Barack Obama

              by samddobermann on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 06:14:12 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

            •  the problem with incrementalism, (0+ / 0-)

              as it seems to be used here most often is that you don't/can't start out aiming for it from the beginning. that tactic moves and a snail's pace and leaves a corresponding slime trail. if you want a five yard gain and know that whatever distance you shoot for is going to be halved by the opposition then the only viable option is to go for the ten yard gain and settle for five. that's how incrementalism is supposed to work. not by going for two yards when you really need five because you think the opposition should have some say in how you call your plays.

              "Liberalism is trust of the people, tempered by prudence; conservatism, distrust of people, tempered by fear." Gladstone, Me -8.88/-7.08

              by zedaker on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 09:52:42 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

          •  The reason for this is that corporatists (5+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Odysseus, samddobermann, gmb, NoMoreLies, Edger

            running both corporate parties have been playing a 'Good Cop, Bad Cop' routine with their respective electorates. The Dems have been playing the cultural Bad Cop for the last few decades. In the post-Bush world, it's the Dems turn to play Good Cop.

            From the anti-corporatist perspective, the solution is, quite simply, to kill the bad cop. If the internal trends in the Republican Party hold, and if the Democrats hold ground this midterm, the base will completely loose their bearings. A large number of them will write off politics and the remainder will turn so extreme that the party will become radioactive to swing voters, reducing the GOP to paraphrase Markos, a regional racialist party.

            Politics certainly abhors a vacuum. With no effective ringer, the Dems corporate leadership will lose its most compelling reason for maintaining the internal status-quo, which will expose the fault-lines between the corporatist, anti-corporatist, statist and libertarian factions across the political specturm, forcing a major political realignment.

            Is it impolite to say that things are f*cked up? Because honestly man, s*it is really f*cked up. -autoegocrat

            by James Kresnik on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 04:46:24 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          •  Great comment (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            zedaker, Edger, Lady Libertine

            I don't understand why the Democrats weren't ready for the mandate we handed them. There really is no excuse.

            The rhetoric on both sides is polar opposites but the result appears to be the same in the long run.

            We can't trust them. They think they "deserve" our votes just because they are Democrats. They are trying to use fear of a Republican victory when their accomplishments are clearly lacking.

            Rahm and Gibbs let slip their true feelings. They hold those of us who actually thought we were voting for "change" in contempt.

          •  The first bill concerning Iraq had a firm time (0+ / 0-)

            limit for an end of funding was VETOED by Bush. He said he would continue to veto any bills with time limits. I felt for a while the congress should repeat it but that would only showboating.

            Bush made one veto before 2007. From then on he made several and then quite a few veto threats.

            And remember the Senate was not cooperative —as usual.

            This past year and a half has seen an incredible amount of change. Not everything is just how the loudest ones want them I don't think even the up front progressives would agree in details or in priorities.

            The problem is reality and the really lousy quality of the media and particularly the news.

            I'm asking you to believe. Not in my ability to bring about real change in Washington ... I'm asking you to believe in yours. Barack Obama

            by samddobermann on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 06:07:46 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Can't blame that on Bush. (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:

              To defund the Iraq occupation all the dems had to do was NOT pass a funding bill.

              Bush could not veto a bill that was not passed, nor could he continue the occupation without the 'emergency' supplemental funding bill the dems passed in the spring of 2007 that gave him the money to continue it.

              It was a conscious decision by the democratic leadership to continue the funding of the occupation, after having run the 2006 campaign on an end the war platform.

              Defunding Iraq: Misperceptions, Disinformation And Lies, June 11, 2007

              When the Democrats or anyone else claim that the money is for the troops, they, just like George Bush, are quite simply lying. The funding is not for the troops.

              The TROOPS are funded by regular appropriations. DOD budget. Emergency supplemental funding has nothing to do with "funding the troops".

              Antemedius: Liberally Critical Thinking

              by Edger on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 06:25:24 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

        •  you know, sometimes things (0+ / 0-)

          never get fixed until they breakdown entirely. the shrub took us very close to that and look what happened. Obama was elected by running on being our repair guy. it turns out he's only slapping a few new shingles on the roof instead of repairing it structurally. his union seems to demand that. it's time to find a new repair guy in a different union apparently.

          "Liberalism is trust of the people, tempered by prudence; conservatism, distrust of people, tempered by fear." Gladstone, Me -8.88/-7.08

          by zedaker on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 09:39:34 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  It takes a different country (0+ / 0-)

        that's not the electorate in this country.

        We all differ in ways that matter. But we're all the same in the ways that matter most.

        by plf515 on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 04:47:26 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  you can't get 1 million people who (0+ / 0-)

        would agree on what b, c, and d should be.

        That is unless they are slogans unrelated to reality such as: lower taxes, cut spending promote "good morals".*

        *good morals = the christian way of life (as each brand interpreted it).

        Geeze, even the Democratic party which is supposed to be united by principles, has big fights in the Platform committee each convention.

        I'm asking you to believe. Not in my ability to bring about real change in Washington ... I'm asking you to believe in yours. Barack Obama

        by samddobermann on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 05:36:33 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  Not disagreeing just not understanding (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      zedaker, Onomastic

      Is this some sort of glass half empty versus half full argument?  Can't we just take everything you said about 50% of the people not voting and reverse every statement to be about the 50% that vote?  One whit is a slim thing so I'm really not sure what to make of this argument other than the obvious and already known fact that we need a movement.

    •  If only everyone who doesn't vote, . . . (14+ / 0-)

      . . .because they're disgusted with both the Republicans and the Democrats, would vote instead for a third party, the third party would probably win.

      "Americans are a wonderful people: They will always do the right thing--after exhausting every other possible alternative."--Winston Churchill

      by keikekaze on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 02:35:23 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Thank you, K!!!! (4+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        gmb, zedaker, keikekaze, JesseCW

        The only "wasted" vote is a vote that isn't cast at all.

        And Budhy, I'm surprised you didn't mention the old, tired canard of "candidate viability"--which is determined by The Venerated Fourth Estate Private Company Propaganda Conglomerate--but I'm guessing it didn't fit in anywhere ;)

        Within the current administration wishy-wash cycles, I've given up on "bully pulpitry".

        by o the umanity on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 04:22:43 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  yeah? for what 3rd party? Who would (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:

        lead? Who is this Mr or Ms Wonderful upon whom we would all agree?

        Pipe dreams don't really help any one but the opium supplier.

        People need to identify some likely good candidates, including themselves and get behind them and work for them to get lower level positions and then keep moving up.

        Besides you don't really know if anyone is more than just pretty words until you see them in public office or at least in positions of power.

        Instead of bitching about the end product how about growing your own more to your liking?

        I'm asking you to believe. Not in my ability to bring about real change in Washington ... I'm asking you to believe in yours. Barack Obama

        by samddobermann on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 07:08:35 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  I don't sell pipe dreams. (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:

          I try to give away images of the real world as seen from perspectives outside the usual blinkers.  It isn't up to me to tell people whom to vote for; I'm only pointing out that if people don't like "either" of the "two" "major" parties' candidates, they really don't need to stick with either one of them--and would very likely be better off if they didn't.

          "Americans are a wonderful people: They will always do the right thing--after exhausting every other possible alternative."--Winston Churchill

          by keikekaze on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 11:19:30 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

    •  Decisions are made by those who show up. (8+ / 0-)

      We have to hAvE To HAVE TO ....rOcK tHe VoTe!!

      TAX THE RICH! They have money! I'm a Democrat. That's why!

      by ezdidit on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 02:45:04 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Don't vote (17+ / 0-)

      Teabaggers and Republicans will thank you profusely for not identifying their anti-American agenda. The corporate press will thank you for making all their vacuous hairdos look like the second coming of Nostradamus.

      --And you can go home at night satisfied that the great American traditions of greed and apathy are safe and sound without you having to lift a finger.

    •  If it is a protest you want to register ... (6+ / 0-)

      ... and the particular Democrat in the race is unbackable ... a more noticeable protest vote is to vote third party. One at a time it, of course, only makes the whit of a difference, but when third party voting hits the whole percentage points, it attracts notice, and when it hits the margin of victory it can attract a lot of notice.

      I'll be voting for Tim Ryan, who has some strengths to set against his flaws, and likely voting for Fisher for Senate, but no way in hell am I going to promise my vote to whomever has the D next to his name no matter how bad his actual record may be.

      Start 2010 with Lesbian Creative Works, 100% Yuri from ALC Publishing

      by BruceMcF on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 03:10:33 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  I'm sorry, Buhdy--I don't agree with not voting. (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      As several other commenters have already cited, abstaining from voting, even from within a well-intentioned "movement" that is quite honestly not going to make much difference between the two types of Americans who a) correctly value their voting rights as a hard-fought privilege we MUST not take for granted, EVER; and b) do what they did back in the late Sixties/early Seventies and simply "tune out" of the system.

      Thanks to the latter mentality, the Democratic Party's progressive candidate won one state--Massachusetts--in the '72 elections. One. Not many years after, our country started to swirl down the supply-side toilet of "trickle-down" when Americans decided it was much more comfortable for them to "feel good" about themselves, and about how utterly and unquestionably great our country is rather than do some honest-to-gods work on making it a better country for everyone.

      As an American and especially as a woman, I cannot take place in a movement that asks me to throw away my rights to vote--the ones for which my great-great-grandmothers' generation of women were beaten, imprisoned, starved, and murdered. Sorry.

    •  my one whit of difference (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      may have helped my primary candidate, it was close , but I not only voted, I phone banked to make sure we got the real progressive

      -7.75, -6.05 Rise up and take the power back, it's time that The fat cats had a heart attack, you know that Their time is coming to an end-Matt Bellamy

      by nicolemm on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 06:42:53 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Whoa, it's the old Daily Kos? (0+ / 0-)

      Had to log in to Rec, Tip and support.  Well said.

      FOX "News" Channel: We report (what suits our point of view), you decide (based on one side of the story).

      by Bull Schmitt on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 07:08:13 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Good luck with this... (9+ / 0-)

    If, however, you start a movement, write a petition, post diaries, make a web site, make a FUSS ....about why you are choosing to protest the system by not voting......maybe someone WILL notice.

    and don't hold your breath.

    "Palin tried marijuana years ago. She said it distorted her perceptions & impaired her thinking. She hopes the effects will eventually one day wear off." -

    by marabout40 on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 01:06:06 PM PDT

    •  someone will notice something eventually (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      gmb, SottoVoce, Edge PA

      because we're on the precipice either way. The tea is out of the bag, and the last thing we want is for the scary left to awake from their slumber. But when leftists call their own Democratic president an enemy, you know something is NOT right, and gotta wonder how deep that rabbit hole really is.

      Aperture Science. We do what we must, because we can.

      by lincoln deschain on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 01:27:28 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  withhold money? (24+ / 0-)

    YES! that should be the movement.

    withhold my vote?

    The hippies had it's time..the culture as a whole sent out a big, hemp-covered apology. Morford []

    by RiaD on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 01:06:38 PM PDT

  •  isn't it funny (33+ / 0-)

    that the ones that don't vote are the ones that bitch the loudest when shit hits the fan?

    You're watching Fox News. OH MY GOD--LOOK OUT BEHIND YOU

    by rexymeteorite on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 01:07:52 PM PDT

  •  Anyone on this site (41+ / 0-)

    or elsewhere who says they aren't going to vote (even if they amend the assertion in another diary) should just STFU.  Those individuals have zero input into the discourse and should be ignored.  Sure -- they have the right not to vote -- but should not suck up the oxygen.

    Glad you decided to stick it out.

    "We think the truth is bad enough. It obviously is." -- Fishgrease

    by gchaucer2 on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 01:12:20 PM PDT

  •  If you're going to do nothing (16+ / 0-)

    Do nothing as loudly as possible.

    I am continually amazed at how many disgruntled people I see commenting and diarying - not to blame them. BUT ... (you knew there was a but coming)

    If you are really unhappy, what are you doing beside typing? WHY ARE THERE NO DIARIES ABOUT "LOOK AT OUR PROTEST, 200 PEOPLE MARCHED TO DEMAND X".

    Where X is in the set:

    {End to DADT, Closure of Gitmo, a Second Stimulus Package, End to Afghanistan, Elizabeth Warren as head of CPC, Public Option, ...}

    If you're disgruntled, don't preach to the Kossack choir. Go forth and spread some disgruntle where the MSM has to notice.

    In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice; but in practice, there always is a difference. - Yogi Berra

    by blue aardvark on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 01:26:16 PM PDT

  •  Getting People to Not Vote - is a strategy (13+ / 0-)

    A basic element of political literacy has to be the knowledge that there is a strategy that is coldly calculated for trying to get people not to vote.

    One of those is the unremitting negativity that comes from various media, whether in the form of electioneering advertising or more subtly.

    Intelligent people are driven nuts by this insult to the intelligence and they are prone to the persuasion that voting makes no difference.  

    The reason for trying to do this is so that the reactionary voters who can be led easily by their fears and unreasoning prejudices will outnumber the intelligent.

    Thanks for the diary.  You have seen through this.  

    hope that the idiots who have no constructive and creative solutions but only look to tear down will not win the day.

    by Stuart Heady on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 01:28:25 PM PDT

  •  Here's Why I Never Got the Not Voting Strategy (23+ / 0-)

    Let's say enough people are indifferent enough or angry enough not to vote, and as a result the politician they are choosing to "punish" gets voted out of office.  Sure, they'll lose their Member of Congress pin or whatever, but waiting for them will be cushy jobs as pundits, think tank members, corporate board members, lobbyists eventually, etc.  They will be fine.  They'll be bummed for a few days, and then get rich.

    But what about everybody else?

    They have replaced someone who they felt was not passionate enough about the issues they care about or who didn't do the right thing a high enough percentage of the time with someone who is passionate about the OPPOSITE sides of the issue that they care about, and who NEVER do the right thing from the voter's perspective.

    In the long run, "teaching your own party a lesson," hurts "you" more than it hurts "the party."

    So you work to improve the party.

    I'm as progressive as anybody, but I get flack for being a centrist because of my electoral strategy, which is this:  In every district and in every state, we should nominate the most progressive candidate who can win that seat... and when we can primary someone with someone more progressive and win without eliminating our odds of winning the seat, we should do that too...  Because you're NEVER going to have 50%+1 Alan Grayson's or 51 Russ Feingolds.  The only way you can get strong progressive legislation passed is to have the biggest majority you can to cobble together the best legislation that you can.  Because we cannot "radio control" the voters of moderate/conservative states, we are not going to get to a place where we just force whatever liberal legislation we want.

    As for people who don't vote choosing to register that protest in a blog or a petition or whatever, I don't know whose benefit that would be for.  Again:  The people who you punished by not voting are just going to get another job making a lot of money after the dust settles, they don't have any incentive to read blogs or petitions at that point.

  •  Well said. Thankyou buhdy nt (7+ / 0-)

    I love me peektures and that is that! Cheerleaders till 2016

    by matrix on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 01:30:44 PM PDT

  •  WOW. (3+ / 0-)

    Good points.  Well taken.

    Full Disclosure: I am not Ben Leming. But I think he's pretty cool.

    by Benintn on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 01:32:12 PM PDT

  •  Time to roll out Craig Ferguson again. (19+ / 0-)

    If you don't vote you're a moron.

    Full Disclosure: I am not Ben Leming. But I think he's pretty cool.

    by Benintn on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 01:33:09 PM PDT

  •  dude. I like that black and blue nose... (18+ / 0-)

    The cost-benefit analysis is simple.

    Elect democrats.  Cost: assorted weaseling, whining, and slipping downward of things.  likelihood is high. Benefit: some actual helpful legislation. likelihood of this is around 50%

    Elect republicans.  Cost:  suckass legislation, things go to shit, weasels crapping everywhere. this cost is a certainty. Benefit: possible that democrats learn that we get pissed off when they don't perform.  likelihood of this event is very small.

    Run the numbers.  I'll take fair-to-middling-to-slight slippage over complete ass-suckery-with-infinitesimal-chance-of-teachable-moment any day.

    My movement is at the ballot, checking D's.

    Our opponent is an alien starship packed with atomic bombs. We have a protractor. -- Fraa Erasmus, Anathem

    by bubbanomics on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 01:33:35 PM PDT

  •  The Soda Revolt (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    miss SPED

    Do it for what ever you want to protest.

    Just do it.

    If everyone does it, boycotts soda, it will get attention.

    Then, when we are all using our purse to protest, perhaps we can put aside divisiveness and actually get the peoples' business done.

    But not until.  Not until we move from being hundreds of fractious groups to becoming what we are, The People. that will ever happen.

    Individualism has become selfishness/be rightedness and divided we will all fall.

    It's sad, really.

  •  Worse yet, it confirms their beliefs that (3+ / 0-)

    Americans are so stupid lazy and uncaring that they deserve what they get.  

    Denial is complicity.

    by Publius2008 on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 01:40:03 PM PDT

  •  Well said (3+ / 0-)

    Here, here. More, more. A wise one once advised to yell louder. Voting is a necessary first step in warming up the vocal chords for a full-fledged yell.

    Tea Party = Racist, Rapacious, Reactionary Republicans

    by DWG on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 01:42:38 PM PDT

  •  I have no intention of not voting. (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    boofdah, miss SPED

    I also have no intention of working to get others to the polls, registered, or working for any campaign.. unlike 2004, 2006, and 2008.

    I'm not sure if the next diary will attempt to shame me into apologizing for "just voting".. but this one, for me personally, is officially a swing and a miss.

    "To pass these defendants a poisoned chalice is to put it to our own lips as well." Justice Robert Jackson, Chief Prosecutor, Nuremberg.

    by Wayward Son on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 01:42:53 PM PDT

  •  Mass suicide is not a political strategy. (13+ / 0-)

    It is not a message. It is not anything but irrational self destruction. That's what not-voting is.

  •  Vote for Pedro nt (0+ / 0-)

    It's called the Dodd-Frank bill. What else do you need to know?

    by roguetrader2000 on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 01:48:49 PM PDT

  •  One could spoil one's ballot, for example. (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    Millions of people getting ballots and defacing them would get noticed.

    Personally, I wouldn't do that. I'm going to vote for people I can stand and not vote in races where I can't stand any of the candidates.

    But spoiling your ballot is a better protest than not showing up at all. Not showing up at all says that you don't care. Spoiling a ballot says you think the system is without value.

    Barack Obama: Ignores his legal obligation to prosecute people who tortured prisoners to death. Good at photo ops, though.

    by expatjourno on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 01:48:59 PM PDT

  •  Right on the money ... (17+ / 0-)

    I've always tried to split my time between electoral work (during election years and non-election years when keeping organizations going is important) AND non-electoral work. Every reform that's ever come to pass in this country has been initiated outside the electoral system - whether it's the 8-hour day or women's suffrage - through nudging, cajoling, protesting and going to jail. But all of them have been confirmed by elected officials. So we need both. And we can't get the latter without voting, however much that may require making our noses black and blue.

    Arrow. Zing. Bullseye, buhdy.

    Don't tell me what you believe. Tell me what you do and I'll tell you what you believe.

    by Meteor Blades on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 01:49:53 PM PDT

    •  Who would have thought... (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      Who would have thought that gay marriage and civil unions would be adopted in five states under a Republican Administration?  For that matter, look at who fought against Prop 8 (a Bush lawyer during Bush v. Gore) and who blocked it (a Reagan appointee opposed by Democrats).

      While I have your attention, MB, I did post a GBCW diary and have been waiting for my banning.  I'm not doing as much good here as I can outside of dKos, and it's a bit of a time sink.  

      I do not want to resort to desperate measures.

      2009: Year of the Donkey. Let's not screw it up.

      by Yamaneko2 on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 02:38:46 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  I plan to vote (4+ / 0-)

    Even though I am not thrilled with the available choices.  Plus we have a stupid Top Two primary, so even if a decent candidate shows up outside the mainstream, there's no way to squeak them past the Big Boys.

    Still, I'm not going to give the conservatives the pleasure of not voting.

    You may think that. I couldn't possibly comment.-- Francis Urqhart

    by Johnny Q on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 01:50:16 PM PDT

  •  Granted. But it still doesn't change who we get (7+ / 0-)
    to vote for, corporate and bank backed candidates who are largely from the upper class.  So, for example Obama wins with 89 million and McCain gets 79 (instead of 69 and 59).  On the one hand I understand the necessity to vote, on the other hand, I still don't see more voters under the current conditions changing anything.  The money still corrupts.  Now if the voting and thus the interest could be channeled into major reform efforts, then maybe we'd get somewhere. Voting and electing candidates alone is not going to get it done.  

    "To the mediocre, mediocrity appears great" Indian proverb

    by BigAlinWashSt on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 01:50:25 PM PDT

  •  The way to protest this year (9+ / 0-) to see no Republicans get elected.

    The way to protest in 2012 is to see that no Blue Dogs get past the primary and that no Republicans get elected.

    You can't protest corporation-oriented Democrats by letting Republicans win.  I would think that after 42 years we would have learned that lesson.

    50 states, 210 media market, 435 Congressional Districts, 3080 counties, 192,480 precincts

    by TarheelDem on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 01:52:00 PM PDT

  •  Thanks for this diary and I so agree with you. (6+ / 0-)

    What I call the 'Dark Forces' want us to give up, not vote, not keep working for candidates and causes we believe in.

    I won't give up.  I will always vote.  I will put my heart, spirit and boots on the ground for good Democrats.  Anything else is just not acceptable to me.

  •  The problem is that for large swaths (4+ / 0-)

    of the country, the system is built to make voting seem pointless.

    I live in NYC. The results of my congressional race (I'm in Nydia Velasquez's district) and both Senate races are more-or-less a forgone conclusion.

    I'll still vote. I always do. But I get why people in many parts of the country think it's pointless. Frankly, in NYC, it sometimes feels that way to me, like it's some pro forma action I'm taking that has no real meaning or impact.

    And that's a real problem.

    "Heterosexuality is not normal, it's just common." Dorothy Parker

    by dedmonds on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 01:57:15 PM PDT

  •  Calling the non-vote makes it a lever. (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Clues, ZhenRen, BigAlinWashSt

    Say if Lincoln was targeted to go down by non-voting, and she did, that would make pols pay more attention to the progressive agenda out of fear for their political lives.  Or if she didn't it would show that the progressive voice doesn't have much real-world clout.  Either way there would be clarity and a new approach suggested.

    Right now we are completely ignorable given the lack of any real world political force backing the complaints.

    "Dega dega dega dega. Break up the concrete..." The Pretenders

    by Terra Mystica on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 01:59:06 PM PDT

  •  the unfortunate truth, they got us over a barrel (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    I don't know what that means but that's what it is.

  •  Statistically One vote doesn't matter ... (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    (Minn. of course being the exception.)

    But on a grander scale, if you don't vote, that means people like you aren't voting either.  Think long and hard about what it would take to make you want to vote.  Then get your local politician to focus on that ... Not only will you get your issue addressed, you will also motivate others to vote for your candidate and further your cause.

    I will not step foot in or do any business with AZ until they respect human rights!

    by Edge PA on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 01:59:48 PM PDT

  •  It's Not Like Sales. Boycott Doesn't Empty Seats (5+ / 0-)

    We're going to get representative regardless. So we may as well help make the choice.

    The problem is the millions who aren't activist.

    We are called to speak for the weak, for the voiceless, for victims of our nation and for those it calls enemy.... --ML King "Beyond Vietnam"

    by Gooserock on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 02:00:40 PM PDT

  •  I think I am going to check outside (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Boston to Salem, maryabein, foufou

    to make sure the zombie apocalypse hasn't started because I am reccing a buddy diary.

  •  I'm a professional leftist, and I vote. (9+ / 0-)

    There's your 2010 bumper sticker.

    Yeah, my nose idn't doin so great either, but when you consider the alternatives there's really not much to be said.

  •  Vote Louder and Yell Smarter (8+ / 0-)


    We gotta lot of work to do yet.

    *Net Neutrality (bumped up to #1 spot)
    *Campaign Finance Reform


    everything else.

    "Thunder is good, thunder is impressive; but it is lightning that does all the work." ~Mark Twain

    by Lady Libertine on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 02:01:37 PM PDT

  •  That's been my sentiment all along. (0+ / 0-)

    You're in good company.

    The GOP: The Party of Failure. Pass it on.

    by Stephen Daugherty on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 02:02:02 PM PDT

  •  Dems who won't vote this fall (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    should be Taser'd in bathtubs. That is one thing you cannot not do.

    P.S. Lest the feint of heart think I really think people should be Taser'd in bathtubs, well, I do.



  •  Tipped and Rec'd... (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Rustbelt Dem, soothsayer99

    At least show up at the polls...if there is any chance of the Democrat winning then vote for him/her...if it is just token opposition...

    Then Write in your favorite candidate's name

    Obama - Change I still believe in

    by dvogel001 on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 02:03:20 PM PDT

  •  Been there, done that: I did NOT VOTE in 1968 (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Flaming Liberal for Jesus, JL, halful

    Learned my lesson.  Never again (will I not vote).

    "Let's jump off that bridge when we come to it." Mike Pence (R-IN)

    by rsmpdx on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 02:03:34 PM PDT

    •  I didn't vote in 2000 (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      Lord, I hate admitting that.  Life long Democrat and I didn't vote. Like you, rsmpdx, I won't ever make THAT mistake again.  Pregnant chads be damned.

      "The truth does not change according to our ability to stomach it." - Flannery O'Conner

      by Dixiedemocrat on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 03:40:57 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  We live and learn, Dd! (0+ / 0-)

        1000 non-voters in FL converted to voters in 2000 would have made a world of difference.

        But 2010 is not 1968, nor 2000.  You and I have learned and moved on!

        "Let's jump off that bridge when we come to it." Mike Pence (R-IN)

        by rsmpdx on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 04:15:17 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  Voting or not voting is up to the (8+ / 0-)

    individual conscience and I think it depends on that
    "line in the sand" where just one more heartbreak will
    push someone completely out of the voting booth.  For
    some that has already happened with the decision to
    continue two wars, torture and rendition, etc.  For
    others it may have been the corporate hold over our
    "democracy".  When the Catfood Commission's recommends
    get voted in in the next lame duck session and signed
    by the President, what will the affect be on voter
    enthusiasm?  Some people just don't like running full
    tilt into that brick wall over and over...

  •  You have a gift... (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    joedemocrat, foufou, soothsayer99

    ...and hope you will use it this way. Thank you!

    Not only get out to vote, we all must continue to work hard to register new people to come out and vote. We need to sign up with OFA and be a part of the group in your community to help support local candidates. If not OFA, there are many other local Unions to work hard to GOTV, phone bank, etc. We can't afford going two steps up and three steps backward. Eight years of Bush should be a good reminder to all of us.

    ...We have many more issues that bind us together than separate us!

    by ThisIsMyTime on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 02:07:18 PM PDT

  •  Right on, buhdy! One exception. Instead of (7+ / 0-)

    just writing your protest - vote your protest!  Get more, BETTER Dems into Congress and hold THEIR feet to the fire!

    GOTV!!!  The more people vote in this country, the more DEMOCRATS WIN.  'Cause we're in the MAJORITY in this country!


    It's Big Oil's Disaster, no matter how much the opposition wishes it was Obama's.

    by Little Lulu on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 02:09:19 PM PDT

  •  I'll vote. And gladly. (5+ / 0-)

    NC deserves better representation than what we have been getting, that is for sure!

    Choosing not to vote is something I cannot wrap my head around. Men, women, and children have died to make sure that you have that right. And not just Americans, but all those who have contributed to the ideal of Western democracy.

    We stand on their shoulders.

    To whom it may concern: I am an American citizen. Not an American consumer. I am a human being, not a variable in the capitalist system.

    by FinchJ on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 02:10:23 PM PDT

  •  Personally (6+ / 0-)

    I like Jose Saramago's approach to voting:

    Abstention means you stayed at home or went to the beach. By casting a blank vote, you're saying you have a political conscience but you don't agree with any of the existing parties.

    Jose Saramago

    "I also agree with Maryabein above me: it is an act of individual conscience"....and in that case no one will coerce me or make me feel guilty.

    We either transcend the corporate-managed profits system or we descend ever further into barbarism, totalitarianism, and ecological ruin-Paul Street

    by valadon on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 02:11:14 PM PDT

  •  I do not understand people who don't vote. (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    boofdah, XerTeacher, Ezekial 23 20, halful

    Actually, I do.  I'm lucky enough to vote in OR, where we are all vote-by-mail.  That means I have the time and comfort of voting from my own home, to review whatever materials, websites and such at my leisure as I complete my ballot.  I can vote alone, or I can hold a party and invite all my friends over to fill out our ballots together.  

    Voting in Oregon is an easy and fun thing.  It does not require that I be at an appointed place (which seemed to change with every election), at an appointed time to stand in and interminably long line.  It does not require that I take nothing into the voting booth with me to remind me about how I wish to vote on the many items that come before us.  

    In Oregon, I can vote in my pajamas, bed head intact.  I can vote if I've come down with the flu, or if the weather is really lousy enough to make going outside seem not worth the trouble.  I can vote anyway.  

    How I wish everyone in the US could vote-by-mail.  You'd see our voter participation numbers go through the roof!

    •  not sure if this is true.... (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Sylv, mamabigdog

      It does not require that I take nothing into the voting booth with me to remind me about how I wish to vote on the many items that come before us.  

      Perhaps this is the law somewhere, but I've never heard of people denied access to such information. I always bring a list with me when voting in a state which requires voting at a poll.

  •  Walk through the American cemetary at (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Loquatrix, Boston to Salem, soms, halful

    Colleville-sur-Mer, France.  You'll f&cking vote every chance you get.  

  •  Legally (at least according to Sir Thomas More).. (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Loquatrix, blueoasis, burlydee

    ...silence is construed as consent.

    In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king; in the land of the braindead, the intelligent person is cast as the village idiot.

    by dendron gnostic on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 02:13:52 PM PDT

  •  Citizen's duty is to vote (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    bluicebank, soms, halful

    It's one of our basic rights and responsibilities.  I don't think organizing to not vote will accomplish anything.  I've looked into other parties and then became active in our local Dems.  Individuals in our area got active, established some accountability for our local chair, campaigned for good candidates, and have made a difference.  One doesn't have to work on politics to be involved, but I don't understand not voting.  It is a duty as a citizen.  To not do it and say the system doesn't work is exactly right - it's just that person should be looking in the mirror, not pointing fingers.

    •  Absolutely. (0+ / 0-)

      And when you point your finger at someone else, three fingers point back at you.  And I know you are, but what am I?  Don't forget that you're rubber and those who disagree with you are glue...  Besides, if you point fingers while looking in the mirror, you will be pointing at yourself, anyway. This entire diary is ridiculous.  The point is supposedly that we have a duty to vote in order to fight back against the powers that be, while acknowledging that we have no choice to vote for... the powers that be.  The diarist admits that he holds his nose and votes for Dems, the Dems being the lesser of two parties dedicated to ruining our country, but that it is an important civic duty to vote.  How does my voting for a shitty candidate who doesn't represent me or my views a sign that the system is working?  Do you all even stop and think about what you're writing, or do you find comfort in spewing meaningless platitudes?

  •  You're so right n/t (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
  •  Passive aggressive politics never works (5+ / 0-)

    When Republicans lose, they conclude they need to be more conservative.
    When Democrats lose, the conclude they need to be more conservative.

    See: 1968, 1994.

  •  Yeah, but... (0+ / 0-)

    if you don't support the increasingly right wing Democratic party, you're admitting that the broken system is broken, and then you're really pointing fingers back at yourself and people died so that we could vote and speak English.

    So ponder that next time you try to make sense.

  •  These are faulty assumptions. (0+ / 0-)

    All of which are unfair to those who choose not to vote. Voting is still a choice in this country. It is not required.

    I'm also scratching my head about why you chose to turn "are" in your headline into an emphasis with capitals. It makes no sense whatsoever. Your title, moreover, should read "If "you're" not going to vote ..." Again, the "you're" should not be emphasized for any reason.

    Your diary also seems to be more about yourself and your decision in the past not to vote (and the guilt you feel over that). Reagan would have won without your vote. While I appreciate the idea and I, myself, vote in every election, I don't delude myself about its efficacy.

    Moreover, most people today have gone beyond the notion of representative politics (which is precisely why your argument for a "movement" of non-voters falls flat: the era of social movements is long since over, and I mean that solely as a form of protest, we have other forms today and we need to find and invent new ones that are more appropriate to our era).

    Not only have people been "over" representative politics for 40+ years, our system is not even representative when it comes to proportional representation. So, there are any number of reasons for people to reject the entire thing.

    I honestly think you could stand to be more generous to people because if something does happen, if another unexpected force of social change comes along (which it does every 40 years or so), you are going to want all of these people who don't vote to be on your side.

  •  Not voting in order to "Send Them A Message" (3+ / 0-)

    sends a message, all right. The message is "You Win."


  •  Of the approximately 50% (3+ / 0-)

    of eligible voters who don't vote, maybe 1% - tops - are the fabled disgruntled leftist DFHs.

    Perhaps half of the electorate shares a profound moral defect, or, as is more likely, our political class no longer even pretends to care about the interests of most Americans.

    If we could do something about the latter, we'd have a winning formula for the next hundred years. - Kicking against the pricks since '98!

    by chuckvw on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 02:55:12 PM PDT

  •  Honestly, more faulty assumptions (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    LostInTexas, kerplunk

    beget by initial faulty assumptions.

    e.g. "silence = consent."

    This idea is preposterous in the face of the 20th and 21st centuries which have been marked by the most traumatic politic events of all time (from the Holocaust to the atomic bomb, to endless forms of genocide to recent experiences in the U.S. such as the 2,000 election and Katrina). Silence is a feature of trauma: Of people being too overwhelmed by what is happening to them to even speak.

    Honestly, if you can't have empathy with voters who choose not to vote in the system we have now, then I don't know what to say: It is literally as if you want to blame the victims of the system.

    I understand everyone's sentiments on here and while I personally vote in every election and encourage my friends to vote, you are all making arguments that I don't think even you actually agree with.

  •  Look at the post-Goldwater conservative model (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    Goldwater was absolutely destroyed. By the next election cycle Nixon was pretending to be him. By the cycle after that Reagan was him and a half, and so on. It was precisely because the Conservatives built a movement. A well-funded movement with a lot of top-down input, but a movement still.

    We are between a rock and a hard place. We can't withhold our vote yet our influence over the party is dubious at best. I think an on the ground movement is what we need. We can't depend on politicians to promote our ideas - we have to promote them. The thing i see most often is people who dislike liberals yet are liberal. Its because we are not defining ourselves - we are being defined.

    Thats what a movement is for. It is and has been the only solution to this mess for a long time.

    The cave, the Matrix, America.

    by Grassee on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 03:01:09 PM PDT

  •  If you are NOT going to vote... (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    askew, boofdah, Rustbelt Dem are PART of the problem, and are just as culpable for the results as those who put the insane in power.

    And if you make it a movement, you are dead to me. Do not expect my help on any of your causes, even if I agree with you, if I find out that you weren't working as hard as you possibly could to keep the insane out of power (and working on improving your own party in the meantime).

    "The future of man is not one billion of us fighting over limited resources on a soon-to-be dead planet. . .I won't go back into the cave for anyone."

    by Whimsical on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 03:09:27 PM PDT

    •  Ironic... (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      Do not expect my help on any of your causes, even if I agree with you, if I find out that you weren't working as hard as you possibly could...

      Not taking sides here just yet, but isn't this the same thing those threatening to withhold votes are saying?

      They won't vote for those who aren't "working as hard as [they] possibly could" for the Democratic platform. They simply want their votes to be earned.

      Why should people vote for a politician who doesn't, in turn, vote [in terms of congressional bills] for them?

      How is it that old fashioned common sense is now considered naive and even treasonous?

      •  Because the alternative is deadly. (0+ / 0-)

        I'm saying "I had to make up for your slack- the time and money I ordinarily would have had available to donate to your cause had to go into keeping the country safe, because you weren't doing your job."

        They're saying "I'm not getting what I want, so I'm going to sit home and SCREW the damage the country will take as a result". Unacceptable.

        Why should people vote for a politician who doesn't, in turn, vote [in terms of congressional bills] for them?

        Because all not voting is going to do is hand power to people who will make things worse, not just for them, but for all of us.

        If there was some way to limit the disastrous consequences of the Republicans as they are now retaking power to only those who did not vote (or were dumb enough to vote Republican) I'd say go to.  But there isn't. If the Republicans regain power as they currently are we are ALL screwed, and that alone should be MORE than enough motivation for anyone not just to vote, but to bust their ass to keep Republicans out of office.

        How is it that old fashioned common sense is now considered naive and even treasonous?

        Depends on how you define the term.  To me, its common sense to keep those who will severely damage the country out of power, even if the only viable alternative isn't giving you entirely what you want.

        Aiding and abetting in the destruction of the country? Highly naive, and makes no sense at all.

        "The future of man is not one billion of us fighting over limited resources on a soon-to-be dead planet. . .I won't go back into the cave for anyone."

        by Whimsical on Tue Aug 17, 2010 at 04:01:47 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Newsflash: (0+ / 0-)

          If these inept and cowardly elected Democrats that populate our government don't start to loudly and courageously call for effective and sweeping climate change legislation, the "damage" you speak of will be fate accompli.

          I think many are worried about the continuing status quo that persists no matter whom they vote for. If this complacency with the status quo continues, and it seems fairly clear it will, then getting your "good" Dems elected means nothing as far as the world's children and grandchildren are concerned. So giving the Dems a wake up call may do far more good for the planet in the long run than the call to get out the vote will do, since those votes are completely taken for granted.

          There is nothing at all normal or "patient" and "incremental" about the times we are in. Nature and the planetary ecology don't wait for our dithering human society. Climate change looms and inexorably draws near, and scientists have documented that the window of opportunity for correcting the course we are on is now before us, and will soon close, after which it is a done deal.

          The hour is getting late for the ineffectual political class that we keep electing over and over again. It's time they heard from us. And I do understand those who think the only way to be heard is through their silence at the voting booth, even if I am not convinced to stay home.

          I've always voted. Hard to change that habit. But I do understand those who call for that.

          •  Newsflash (0+ / 0-)

            Putting the Republicans back in power means we won't have to wait for the long run, as they will kill us in the short.

            Unless you think nuclear winter is a viable solution for global warming, that is very clearly not the answer.

            Not voting is the equivalent of the man with cancer who puts a bullet in his head because he doesn't feel up to fighting the long battle with chemo.

            As I said above: if the disastrous price of not voting was paid only by those foolish enough not to vote, I'd have no problem with it.

            But you do not have the right to expect others to pay that price for you. I don't give a good goddamn how dissapointed you are- think of something besides yourself.

            "The future of man is not one billion of us fighting over limited resources on a soon-to-be dead planet. . .I won't go back into the cave for anyone."

            by Whimsical on Tue Aug 17, 2010 at 02:18:11 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  You blithely ignored my point (0+ / 0-)

              that proceeding with the same approach isn't producing the results you keep presuming will somehow miraculously appear after decades of unchanging status quo.

              I understand the call for voting for better officials, which is why I will vote, as I already indicated more than once. But I have no confidence voting will change a damned thing in terms of the looming disaster that is already occurring right before our eyes.

              As to thinking of something besides myself... How is my concern about the environmental disaster that will occur from climate change, which scientists say could substantially depopulate the planet as well as destroy thousands of species within a hundred years, construed by you as thinking about myself?

              I long ago gave up on any real help to my family or my situation. I'm not thinking about myself at all. I'm thinking about my planet, my people, and the ecosystem that I am a part of.

              Do you know anything about climate change forecasts? Are you confident anything will be done to curb it's affects? Do you realize the urgent situation is not going to wait for the slow progress among the plodding, capitulating Democratic party?

              I don't claim to know the answer to getting government to take action, or how to get Big Business to give up it's stranglehold on congress and the White House, but continuing with the status quo, as you suggest, doesn't instill much hope. You have no answers other than keep treading the same water we've been treading for years.

              •  You dont seem to get MY point. (0+ / 0-)

                Which is your choices are incremental forward progress or huge leaps backwards.

                Is the forward progress enough? Maybe, maybe not. But its a damn sight better then what you'll get if you don't vote.

                As to thinking of something besides myself... How is my concern about the environmental disaster that will occur from climate change, which scientists say could substantially depopulate the planet as well as destroy thousands of species within a hundred years, construed by you as thinking about myself?

                Simple- because YOU are dissapointed in the rate of forward progress, in order to vent YOUR dissapointment, you are endorsing a position that will put people in power who will make climate change far worse.

                If you actually cared about climate change or anything other then venting your dissapointment you'd be castigating those who arent planning on voting because the direct consequence of their not voting will be the empowerment of people who will enact policies that will make climate change much worse than it would otherwise be.

                Do you know anything about climate change forecasts? Are you confident anything will be done to curb it's affects? Do you realize the urgent situation is not going to wait for the slow progress among the plodding, capitulating Democratic party?

                In order:

                a) at least as much as you, most likely
                b) given that technology already exists that could theoretically reduce us to 1860 carbon levels in a decade, absolutely.
                c) Do you realize that slow progress forward is better than huge leaps backwards?

                You have no answers other than keep treading the same water we've been treading for years.

                And the solution you're endorsing here offers nothing but handing those of us moving incrementally forward while treading water an anvil.

                Thanks, but no thanks.

                "The future of man is not one billion of us fighting over limited resources on a soon-to-be dead planet. . .I won't go back into the cave for anyone."

                by Whimsical on Tue Aug 17, 2010 at 03:21:40 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  You are forgetting that history (0+ / 0-)

                  sometimes surprises us with unexpected events and tides of enormous change which can't be predicted. You can't predict with certainty what would happen if people seek an alternative to the status quo "solutions" you advocate. Nor can I, but the difference is I don't smugly pretend to have all the answers. It's too bad we couldn't have had a more productive dialogue.

                  I'll leave you to your arrogant overconfidence and certainty.

                  As to what I'm "endorsing": I said several times I am voting. Please contemplate finding a way to increase your reading comprehension. I'm simply questioning whether the same old approach is actually working.

                  As to a technological solution to climate change: I'd like to see the links that indicate the solution is reliable and presently available to the point we can sit back and not worry.

                  You seem like the sort of person who has a greater need for last words than I, so I'll leave you to it. I've got things to do offline.

                  •  I never said you weren't voting. (0+ / 0-)

                    Nor did I say we didn't have to worry, so apparently I'm not the one who needs to work on their comprehension skills here.

                    You are effectively saying "Its ok not to vote, and you understand why people do it." that is endorsing that position, as far as I'm concerned.

                    As for your wishful thinking that people will generate "tides of enormous change"- not gonna happen. People's behavior can be predicted with certainty a staggeringly large percentage of the time.

                    And lastly, I'll bet money that my technological solution will be ready and rolled out long before your "tides of enormous change" materialize.

                    I'd give you a link but you've already indicated you're more interested in feeling smug and self-satisfied than informed.

                    Shame we couldn't have a more productive discussion, indeed.

                    "The future of man is not one billion of us fighting over limited resources on a soon-to-be dead planet. . .I won't go back into the cave for anyone."

                    by Whimsical on Tue Aug 17, 2010 at 05:54:14 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  Send the link to renowned climate scientists (0+ / 0-)

                      They seem to be unnecessarily worried, and have given pretty dour prognostications, and I'm sure you will set them at ease. They need your superior intellect.

                      The climate science denialists could also use your information, since it could bolster their arguments as well.

  •  Obama debacle is depressing the vote. (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    gmb, Wolf10

    To win big in 2008 on so many levels and to have Obama and Democrats in Congress but mostly Obama as president and the leader with the bully pulpit simply go AWOL really broke the back of liberal, progressive movement in US.

    Obama's betrayal on every issue made a mockery of voting. What is the point of being involved, of working hard, of winning and then having it all turned to dust by Obama's failure of leadership.

    Now what? Vote Democratic for more of the same ineffective vacillation?  To what point?  Obama's argument is that his ineffective vacillation is better than GOP right wing's crazy destructive policies of debt, greed, militarism and rule by corporations. Obama is right but that will not get people to the polls in any great numbers.  It will not fix US problems.

    Only real hope is that Obama does not run for second term and Democrats can find a liberal with guts who will take on nations problems. Maybe not winning 100% in Congress but at least proposing real solutions and fighting for them.

  •  Wow, I really enjoyed this diary (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Boston to Salem

    and thought it made a lot of sense.  

  •  Great diary! Always vote. Here's why: (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    1. There will likely be something on the ballot worth voting for. In Calif. we have the legalization of marijuana and the attempt by Texas oil companies to overturn environmental regulations. Other stuff, too, like governor and US Senate.
    1. There is bound to be someone cute at the polling place. It's not a guarantee, but hey you have to play the odds!
    1. It's your civic duty.
    1. There will likely be some loathsome politician on the ballot. You hate them. Or maybe you don't hate them, but the inner voice tells you they have probably done something worthy of your anger. Vote for the other person with extreme prejudice. Then quote Herman Melville and exclaim, "From hell's heart, I stab at thee." Pretend you're Ricardo Montalban playing Ghengis Khan, taking one last shot at William Shatner's Jim Kirk.

    Let us recap why to vote:

    The outcome will affect you, a supermodel will be voting next to you, she/he will find you attractive for doing your civic duty, and this is your one chance to stick it to a bad guy.

    'nuff said.

  •  We NEED more Anthony Weiners. (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    VOTE!  Creigh Deeds was a louzy Dem Gubernatorial candidate.  Lots of Dems stayed home & what did we get?  Helmut hair McDonnell & Kooky Cucinelli.  PLEASE let this serve as big warning to those of you who are disgruntled w/your choices in the mid-terms.  Jim Webb was a good vote in 2006 against Macaca George Allen.  In our current political climate, "Macaca" George Allen is ho-hum to the Repubs. & would probably be elected.  We accuse the Repubs of obstruction - well-get out there and obstruct their obstructionism!  It IS that important.

    "The truth does not change according to our ability to stomach it." - Flannery O'Conner

    by Dixiedemocrat on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 03:35:00 PM PDT

  •  Agreed (0+ / 0-)

    It makes no sense to give an election a pass out of a misguided notion that it's a protest.

    "The real wealth of a nation consists of the contributions of its people and nature." -- Rianne Eisler

    by noofsh on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 03:37:29 PM PDT

  •  Until you make it a law like Australia (5+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Sylv, gmb, blueoasis, VelvetElvis, Wolf10

    you won't get everyone voting. My best friend lives in Sydney, I met her online. She said because of their law 95% of the people vote. You get a fine if you don't.

    Now she said some of the young and cocky will put in mickey mouse or donald duck or some other weird thing as they can't force you who to vote for but she said because of it most people in her country are aware of politics even if they don't like it.

    Of course they think we are nuts spending all that money and 2 yrs on elections for pres. but thats another story.....

  •  The lesser of two weevils (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    did you not mean to say?

    I recently responded as follows to Paul Krugman's column,
    Curbing Your Enthusiasm.

    After decades of political resignation that followed my impassioned progressivism during the seventies, Obama's candidacy was a glorious reawakening. Alas, I am drifting back into a state of troubled sleep. I would never, ever vote for a Republican for any office. And I will certainly vote for my state and local progressives and donate to those outside my area. But unless Obama himself shows evidence of his own progressive awakening, I will not vote for him again.

    It is perhaps a terrible thing to wish upon my fellow countrymen but more good may come from further suffering under the Republican lash than falling for the blandishments of feckless, weak-kneed sell-outs.

    The frog jumped/ into the old pond/ plop! (Basho)

    by Wolf10 on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 03:50:27 PM PDT

  •  you have swallowed their red herring, Budhy; (8+ / 0-)

    the progressives who are angry with Obama ALWAYS vote. It's the money that's being cut off, at least from my house.

    And yeah--a movement. Incrementalism (if that's today's excuse) ain't gonna cut it when the world is dying.  

    Let's let the pols do the selling out, you and I keep fighting for what's right.

    by Matthew Detroit on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 03:51:17 PM PDT

  •  I am fortunate indeed (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Agathena, Wolf10

    to have a national party that does actually work for progressive ideals in Parliament.  No, not Democrats, of course, I mean the NDP (in Canada).  It's not that I won't hold my nose and vote strategically if I have to, it's that I never have to abstain because there is absolutely no one on the ballot that I can tick off with my pencil in good conscience.

    And yes, I get to vote with an honest-to-goodness H2B pencil.  Yeehaw.

    I don't know if I could in good conscience vote for a government that publicly calls progressives "f-ing retarded".  Maybe it's just me.

    This comment was brought to you by Goldman-Sachs: Our clients' interests always come first.

    by Kingsmeg on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 03:55:10 PM PDT

  •  Most asinine post so far. (0+ / 0-)

    Basically you are allowing your anger about unmet expectations/requirements reduce yourself to lower than that of the 'Tea-Party'.

    It is political cynicism tto the core and ultimately self-defeating since it rewards and plays right into the hands of those who are the REAL cause of your anger and frustration. Republicans will surely get an evil little giggle out of that.

    It's like kicking over your own furniture because you yourself stubbed your own toe against it.

    It is a sad thing seeing people do that.

    If you're so hell-bent on a shit-sandwich, you're of course welcome to it, but I'll take the fresh tripe sub.

    Just my $0,02

    There were never any good old days, they are today, they are tomorrow! It's just a stupid thing to say, cursing tomorrow with sorrow! (Eugene Hutz)

    by Kalong on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 03:59:48 PM PDT

  •  Seen in an old underground comic ca. 1971- 72 (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    RenaRF, Churchill

    "Some people believe ANY government is better than no government at all.  Don't vote -- it only encourages them."

    However, I never really embraced that philosophy.

    We can have democracy in this country, or we can have great wealth concentrated in the hands of a few, but we can't have both. - Justice Louis D. Brandeis

    by dsteffen on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 04:01:24 PM PDT

  •  Not holding my nose and not voting (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Churchill, blueoasis, ZhenRen

    Farce. Quite simply a farce.

    I've stopped donating except in very special and limited circumstances.

    The national democrats are just thinking of fresh ways to dress their neoliberal offerings. I've had it.

    Washington is complete cesspool. I'll still vote in state races but the joke that is national politics can drop its punch-line on someone else.

    I listen to wingnut radio so you don't have to!

    by Sharon on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 04:02:21 PM PDT

  •  Excellent idea! (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Churchill, ZhenRen

    I'd like to add that not making it a protest makes it much easier for Rahm and other corporatist Democrats to blame losses on others.

    You will never hear him suggest that he screwed up and should have listened to the "idiots" in the party.

    If you like the internet the way it is now, you support net neutrality.

    by Doug in SF on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 04:06:21 PM PDT

  •  Are there people who come here (0+ / 0-)

    and vow not to vote?

    How many?

    To some degree it matters who's in office, but it matters more how much pressure they're under from the public. -- Noam Chomsky

    by just some lurker guy on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 04:07:09 PM PDT

  •  Oh, I'll vote (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    but if the catfood commission touches SS, I will vote for no Democrat, no Republican...I'll write them in, I'll vote green...I'll start my own party if I need to.  (Because that part of the diary is so true..if you're protesting something, you need an understanable bloc to do it)

    Here's something to think about -  are there people here who equate not voting for Democrats with not voting at all?

  •  Voting should be required by law (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Agathena, Churchill, Leftcandid

    like it is in Australia

    Toyota: Proof US Union Labor Still Does it Better

    by VelvetElvis on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 04:10:45 PM PDT

  •  they definitely will NEVER EVER drive me out of (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    RenaRF, Rosita, fhcec, QES

    the system, driving one out of a blogsite is something different and that depends a great deal on one's intestinal fortitude and tolerance for crap.

    But the system is NOT for me to ignore, it is to do whatever i can personally to create a better world for my own grandchildren and everyone elses's children and grandchildren.

    That will never happen, or at least only over my dead body and then my children will carry on.

  •  I have two American friends who used to (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Churchill, blueoasis, dww44

    discuss US politics a lot. Each of them (both progressive Democrats) have told me they no longer think, talk or write about politics. I miss the lively discussions we used to have.

    Good luck reaching voters like these.

    This above all: to thine own self be true...-WS

    by Agathena on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 04:15:49 PM PDT

    •  I have withdrawn too, just too depressing (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      to think that they wasted all of those opportunities to lead.

      We're a little better off, but at this pace nothing serious will happen for 20 years.

      By then it'll be too late.  It might be too late now.


      80 % of success is just showing up. GOP Senate minority controls legislation in House & Senate & they pay no political price. Game-Set-Match

      by Churchill on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 04:19:52 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  4 yrs in power & Dems have done well? WTF? (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    some changes have happened, some history legislation, mostly watered-down, yes, things have changed, but the direction of the country is okay with about 20 percent of the people.

    Bout the same as when the GOP had the country.  

    It's over.

    80 % of success is just showing up. GOP Senate minority controls legislation in House & Senate & they pay no political price. Game-Set-Match

    by Churchill on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 04:18:15 PM PDT

  •  "...they can run roughshod over everything we (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    hold dear.' Of course you mean 'back up and do it again.' Tipped and recced.

    Tip and rec the election diaries. Let's build momentum starting now.

    by reddbierd on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 04:19:31 PM PDT

  •  the Earth is Dying, Senate GOPpers filibuster on (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    and we just set here and watch the country slip back to the GOP so-called leaders.

    80 % of success is just showing up. GOP Senate minority controls legislation in House & Senate & they pay no political price. Game-Set-Match

    by Churchill on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 04:20:32 PM PDT

    •  The Earth is doing just hunki-dori (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      After the human race is gone, it will recover quite nicely in a sweet 100.000 years (give or take ten millenea or so.).
      So NO, the earth is not dying. Just those microbes on the surface will do so.

      There were never any good old days, they are today, they are tomorrow! It's just a stupid thing to say, cursing tomorrow with sorrow! (Eugene Hutz)

      by Kalong on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 04:31:09 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  If only the American people (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Churchill, Cleopatra

    could summon a movement to DENY the Republicans any gains in this cycle.  THAT would attract attention and empower Democrats to action.  

    People are fungible. You can have them here or there. - Former Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld, responding

    by peterborocanuck on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 04:21:35 PM PDT

    •  Empower Democrats to do what? (0+ / 0-)

      They're already doing what they want to do - supporting their well-heeled corporate constituents and giving away power to Republicans.

      Truth forever on the scaffold, wrong forever on the throne. - James Russell Lowell

      by Deep Harm on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 05:17:38 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  "They" have the system completely rigged. (0+ / 0-)

    So I agree with the diarist that it's certainly understandable if people want to stop participating in a rigged process.  I also agree that if people go this route they should make it known loudly why.  Ultimately, I'm of the belief that whether you choose to vote or not matters far less than whether you're working to build resistance to the system on the streets.  That's where concessions are won.

    The supremacy of finance capital over all other forms of capital means the rule of the rentier and of the financial oligarchy -- Lenin (1917)

    by GiveNoQuarter on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 04:26:30 PM PDT

  •  I have no respect for people who don't vote (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    boofdah, Cleopatra

    I don't care what political views you have; there is no excuse NOT to vote. It gets me so angry how so many people take the right to vote for granted. Over the years people have suffered torture, gone to jail, and even have given up their lives fighting for a right many Americans just take for granted. It sickens me.

  •  I always vote (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    In 33 years I've voted in every election except 2.  Every primary, special, general election.

    Once I was in Israel during an off-year primary and missed it.

    The other time there were no contested races.

    You know what?  I get to vote for some darn good people.  I get to vote for Jerry Nadler, and all my local politicians are good.  You know why?

    Because, in my district, there is always a huge Democratic majority.  

    If you want Democrats to be liberal, they usually need BIG majorities.  

    Not voting is like political suicide.

    We all differ in ways that matter. But we're all the same in the ways that matter most.

    by plf515 on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 04:43:58 PM PDT

  •  how bout writing in a vote for nader? worked so (0+ / 0-)

    well last time.

  •  Agreed. n/t (0+ / 0-)

    ~we study the old to understand the new~from one thing know ten thousand~to see things truly one must see what is in the light and what lies hidden in shadow~

    by ArthurPoet on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 04:48:01 PM PDT

  •  Give Democrats a landslide (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    boofdah, Buffalo Girl, Cleopatra

    and they become progressives.

    Obama did NOT by any means, win a landslide.  In fact, his margin of victory was below the median margin of victory for POTUS elections post-Civil War.

    60-40 is landslide territory
    53-46 is not

    It's really pretty simple.

    Any progressive or liberal who stays home is giving a clear message to the Democrats.  That message is: Be centrists.

    We all differ in ways that matter. But we're all the same in the ways that matter most.

    by plf515 on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 04:51:54 PM PDT

  •  Whitty (0+ / 0-)


    If you have a million whits of a difference here and a million whits of one there, pretty soon you're talking about real democracy.

  •  Budhydharma noes! (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Larry Bailey

    My nose is permanently black and blue from holding it every two years to vote for Democrats, for the lesser of two evils.

    Same here.

  •  a movement... (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    CA Berkeley WV

    which is an I love. "Green Party Democrats" has a bit of a ring to it.

    Generally speaking, bd, I agree with you. This time, I listen carefully, but with profound reservations because I just don't see the way forward by continuing same-old, same-old support for mediocre or worse democrats.

    Does anyone think there is anything any politician hears more than voter anger? I think that's all they hear. I think that's the only way ordinary people get heard over the low-pitched-but-incessant-hum of large donors.

    *     *     *

    Now that I think about it, you're wrong, bd. You pledge your support for whomever, as long as they have a "D" after the name and that a guarantee that you'll be forever taken for granted. And ignored, no matter what you do.

    Let your nose heal for once.

    What has a "political realist" done for you lately?

    by papicek on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 04:57:07 PM PDT

    •  We have the Mountain Party here in WV (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      qualifies for the ballot every year. I don't think they have elected anyone to the ledge yet. The candidate that ran for governor is running for Byrd's seat.

      It started out with a splinter group when Charlotte Pritt beat Joe Manchin, yes that Joe, in the primary. The establishment did not back her, and we got Gov. Cecil Underwood (R), youngest and oldest governor elected in the state.

      My voting in primaries is different than the general. I know the formula for delegates to Democratic State Party Convention. Sad but true.

      •  we've the Green-Rainbow party... (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        CA Berkeley WV

        here in Massachusetts. As far as I know, they haven't elected anyone either (maybe some local races somewhere, but I don't know of any).

        They are, I believe, officially recognized by the commonwealth, having attained 1% in elections.

        *     *     *

        From the DNC's point of view, there are two ways to look at it. They can recognize that they must have an energized base and court our votes, or consider that for every vote they lose on the left, they must replace with a vote from the center. They only viable strategy for them is to try and do both, by carefully triangulating, and this works, as long as everybody goes along with it, and holds their noses.

        But when push comes to shove, elected representatives who have a range of messages tailored to different points in the left-to-center spectrum, have to reveal where they stand. Having witnessed what we've witnessed, the judgement I can't avoid in all this is that the left was ill-used during the campaign. Another judgement on my part is that, lets face it, at some point republicans are going to have some big successes. If nothing else, people will simply want a change sometime (as what happened to Gordon Brown, for instance,) because I don't see this group of party leaders capable of reinventing the party and making it fresh again. Having said that, though I was slow to come around, I thought that Obama had actually pulled this off - then I look at the policies and I see that it isn't so.

        BD's right, the fight needs to be taken to a different level entirely, but he's wrong to keep on holding his nose - that leads back to the status quo. It's his vote, and I know he's got his heart in the right place, but I disagree with him on this. If democrats aren't solving the problems (which they supposedly champion), then they need to be replaced. The tell here is that, even after this summer in the GoM, democrats can't seem to get their act together to get energy policy done.

        That's really, really lame.

        What has a "political realist" done for you lately?

        by papicek on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 11:34:52 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  It has always been my contention (0+ / 0-)

    that is you don't vote your have not right to critisize the elected officals.  I can see the flamers coming now....

    I don't care if you think none of the candidates deserve your vote.  Write-in Bugs F^^&&*ING Bunny as your choice if you truly feel that way.  Many times we are presented with a choice of bad or worse.  

    "Now watch what you say or they'll be calling you a radical, a liberal, a fanatical criminal" -- Logical Song -- Rick Davies & Roger Hodgson

    by Over50Lib on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 05:01:19 PM PDT

  •  I'm redoubling my political efforts. Like you, (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    boofdah, soothsayer99

    I will NOT let them drive me out of the system, however shitty the system may have become, however filled with despair I sometimes am.

    We must VOTE! We must outshine the enthusiasm of the Rethugs who would drive this country into the ground.

    I may lose.  But it'll be after the fight.

  •  I'm 50. I have voted in EVERY primary and (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Darnell From LA

    regular election since I got that right.  My thought is that if you choose not to vote, I don't even want to hear your whine.  

    Yeah.  It's a democracy.  The ballots are the ballots we created, as a people.


    Or don't whine. Or whine, and I as a fellow citizen will have NO interest in listening to you.

  •  I'm definitely voting. (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    But if we're still in Afghanistan it's going to a third party.

    No one will believe it's the Blues if you wear a suit, `less you happen to be an old person, and you slept in it.

    by dov12348 on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 05:13:13 PM PDT

    •  I meant 2012. (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      No one will believe it's the Blues if you wear a suit, `less you happen to be an old person, and you slept in it.

      by dov12348 on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 05:14:17 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Oh, Great idea (0+ / 0-)

      Just like what happened in 1968 with LBJ and Vietnam. And that's how we got.....NIXON!

      Great plan. It's called "history." Look into it. Rumor has it if you don't you tend to repeat it.

      The GOP wins back the House? Meet the new Chairman of the Judiciary Subcommittee on Crime, Terrorism, and Homeland Security: Rep. Louie "Terror Babies" Gohmert

      by Darnell From LA on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 05:29:30 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Sometimes you don't repeat it. (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:

        Like the never-before-seen state of the economy now.

        No one will believe it's the Blues if you wear a suit, `less you happen to be an old person, and you slept in it.

        by dov12348 on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 05:32:14 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  I just regard the war as... (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        slatsg, gmb

        ...unique because of the utter waste of blood and treasure.  I wonder how he can have the gall to fucking keep this up indefinitely...for nothing.  Well, nothing discernable.

        He must be sitting on the big, double-super-secret reason we're still there.

        No one will believe it's the Blues if you wear a suit, `less you happen to be an old person, and you slept in it.

        by dov12348 on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 05:37:15 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  I can't beleive we have to convince people to (5+ / 0-)

    vote on this site. Vote you idiots, do you really want the teabaggers to look smarter than you?

    •  Amazing isn't it ? (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      Dkos should change its official site policy to 'how to help elect rethugs & teabaggers' to congress.

      What a meaningless, crappy diary.

      Fox news is ad hominem and ad populum ad nauseam.
      A Presidency among the Vuvuzelas.
      Only palin can sound like a vuvuzela while twittering.

      by amk for obama on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 06:59:51 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Other options (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    CA Berkeley WV, Ezekial 23 20

    Vote for an independent or write-in candidate, if one is available.  Where none is available or desirable, many people choose each year to cast their votes for fictional characters as a way of expressing their disgust with the choices offered.

    Of 622 write-in ballots submitted this year in Loudon County, Virginia, Mickey Mouse received 96 votes.

    Write-in campaigns date back to the days of ancient Rome and are considered the purest form of democracy,, said Jeremy Mayer, a George Mason University associate professor of public policy.

    Today, voters often write in the names of people – or fictional characters – they know can’t possibly win as a form of rebellion, he said.

    A more constructive option is to organize a write-in campaign to draft a qualified candidate.  Some write-in candidates actually have won elections.

    As the diarist points out, just about anything is better than staying home.

    Truth forever on the scaffold, wrong forever on the throne. - James Russell Lowell

    by Deep Harm on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 05:14:16 PM PDT

  •  Not voting D is voting for the Right (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    dww44, amk for obama

    Driving down Democratic voting is a key strategy of the Right.

    That was the whole point of the "party of no" strategy - to make people so dissatisfied with the Obama administration that they would lose enthusiasm, back off on election activities and financial support, and refrain from voting. How can they be so stupid personally and so right politically? We see it working right here on dkos.

    I see this as a grown up issue: Who is and who isn't.

    I'm not open to the idea that petulance or outrage, whatever you want to call it, is a good enough reason to help the Republicans gain more control of the government.

    How can all human beings have satisfying lives while at the same time nature becomes increasingly vibrant and healthy?

    by just another vortex on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 05:20:41 PM PDT

    •  You are just so right (0+ / 0-)

      Particularly the part about the GOP being so stupid, but yet so successful and savvy politically.  Tis a sad commentary on our political system.  The GOP'ers are gaming the system and by unrelenting use of their smear messaging they have been able to convince far too many (of us, too) that the last year and 1/2 are a disaster.  But, remember they do control a great hunk of the media.

      This brings to mind a comment I have saved from another blog a couple of weeks ago:

      "The conservative mainstream lamestream media will complain about absolutely anything to try and bring down the other side. Absolutely anything.
      I’m an independent in the truest sense–not a conservative/liberal who doesn’t want to wear the party name–but I hate the GOP, because for my entire life, they’ve played politics "better". And playing politics "better" makes the country worse. It poisons minds, dilutes facts, shuns reason, and ignores reality. It’s only getting worse, and 2010 will just reinforce those views for the GOP. 2012, and the future going forward, however, will be different


      To give proper credit, the comment was made by Publius 219 and was attached to this article by Rachel Sklar at Mediaite about that all important burning and unresolved issue:

      How Much Did Chelsea's Wedding Cost??

  •  Thank you Ed Schultz (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    amk for obama

    Letting the GOP win hurts average, middle class Americans. It doesn't hurt the wealthy, well connected politicos running for office.

    Letting the GOP win, and then calling it a "movement", merely proves you are willing to stick it to your fellow Americans under the guise of self expression.

    The GOP wins back the House? Meet the new Chairman of the Judiciary Subcommittee on Crime, Terrorism, and Homeland Security: Rep. Louie "Terror Babies" Gohmert

    by Darnell From LA on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 05:27:16 PM PDT

  •  I must secretly be Australian--I always vote (0+ / 0-)

    like I would get punished by something if I did not vote.

    I first voted in 1972. Some of the arguments for giving the 18-yr olds the vote was the War in Vietnam. I am old enough now to be their parents.

    I always vote.

  •  Thanks for a diary that attracts all the (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    amk for obama, toilpress

    professional protesters in one place.

    Now, if you could only make this a series, they might be sufficiently preoccupied with their own festering, oozing pustules of impotent, unfocused rage, angst and conservative nostalgia for a mythical Rousseauian pastoral past that never was, that they might give the rest of us just a little more room to engage in constructive conversations about practical change within a pluralistic society - change that actually makes real people's lives measurably better in our time.

    Always make new mistakes - Esther Dyson

    by RandomActsOfReason on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 05:41:00 PM PDT

  •  Excellent diary! Thank you for writing it. nt (0+ / 0-)

    Some people WANT IT NOW and WANT IT ALL OR NOTHING! They remind me of my 11-year-old daughter.

    by healthy on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 05:42:48 PM PDT

  •  True they (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    like a small voter pool as it is easier to manipulate and spin the results. They also get to appeal to the most fearful/cowardly or the people who are partisan loyalists and the really low information voter. They can claim that they have political capital or a mandate from the voters.   I have always voted but I will not cast my vote out fear again. Sad thing is that when the Democrat's lose as in MA with the truck driving asshole they always use it as an excuse for even a harder right turn. Too bad that a majority is useless once they are in office. Kinda of makes voting surreal and an exercise in futility. The last movement I participated in won but lost. I'll be damned if I'll let them push me out. They may not like the left but who else do they have really, not enough to win.    

    I have candidates down ballot who I worked hard to get elected and punishing them for being Democratic won't help at all. I no longer adhere to the don't throw your vote away on unelectable candidates or challengers theory. I get called a Nadarite all the time, when I wouldn't vote for him as he creeped me out, so fuck that, What a waste  to vote for who the machine tells you is electable when the candidates they back and fund won't do you a damn bit of good once they get your vote. I'm voting for getting rid of the Pentagon, Canadian Health Care and Kucinich although he's not really left enough for me.        

  •  Only 400 people voted in Bell, CA (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    amk for obama, congenitalefty

    and the whole city woke up to the criminal politicians legally stealing them blind.  This is what happens when a city of 36K allowed 400 to decide their fate.  I do not feel sorry for the property owners and taxpayers of this city.  Think the city of Bell on a larger level...then VOTE!

  •  Uhm... (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    amk for obama

    This is an epic fail thread.  I'm sry.  Opening advocating not voting -- under the guise of 'starting a movement'?

    Uhm... no.  thanks.

    You're issuing a challenge to their sanity by saying that their interpretation of reality is flat wrong. ---Killjoy 7/24/10

    by smoothnmellow on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 06:18:02 PM PDT

  •  except that (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    Democrats are part of "the powers that be" and ultimately are votes are meaningless when lobbyists and corporate interests have as much power as they do. I understand the pragmatism and accept (along with Noam Chomsky) that Democrats are nominally better and should be supported but let's not pretend that it makes that major of a difference.

    I also in some circumstances think that voting for third party candidates are completely warranted, obviously not if you live in a swing state and the election is undecided but for example in New York where I live i'll be voting for Howie Hawkins the Green Party candidate over Andrew Cuomo who is a conservative Dem. I'll also vote for Randy Credico in the senate primary over Schumer.

  •  I'm sorry, but is not voting (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    amk for obama, Ezekial 23 20

    some sort of problem around here?  

  •  Life (0+ / 0-)

    is what happens,
    while you're busy making other plans.

    is what happens,
    while you're busy, trying not to.

    The press is impotent when it abandons itself to falsehood. --Thomas Jefferson to Thomas Seymour, 1807

    by jamess on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 06:28:40 PM PDT

  •  At least some people are enthused (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    gmb, Situational Lefty


    Unfortunately, they are Republicans.

    This is what chump Change looks like.

    by Wamsutta on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 06:35:03 PM PDT

  •  My George Patton-inspired response: (0+ / 0-)

    "No progressive ever won an election by sacrificing his or her vote for his country, he won it by making the Teabagger waste HIS or HER vote on someone who does not stand a chance in Hell of winning."

    -4.75, -5.33 Cheney 10/05/04: "I have not suggested there is a connection between Iraq and 9/11."

    by sunbro on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 06:36:47 PM PDT

  •  One thing I hate about voting=jury duty tomorrow (0+ / 0-)

    But nevertheless you are right. It doesn't hold those accountable to not vote.

    Even though one of my heroes in my sig makes a good point about how this country was bought and sold a long time ago and the shit they shuffle around every 4 years etc.

    So I vote, but I no longer give money. If they want money, they can go to Goldman Sachs or Citigroup and better yet, get them to manage the phones because I won't be phone banking like I did in 2008 either.

    Pro Life??? Conservatives want live babies so they can raise them to be dead soldiers!- George Carlin

    by priceman on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 06:42:13 PM PDT

  •  There are two ways to vote Republican: (0+ / 0-)
    1. Voting Republican.
    1. Failing to vote Democratic.

    Sorry, there are three; three ways:

    1. Failing to vote progressive in Democratic primaries to keep out ConservaDem Republican allies.

    I hope that IRV will spread across the land in time & with effort, so that we will have more electoral choices without the fear of the fallout, but until then, those who can't fall in love with the Dem candidates--for whatever reason--should at least manage to realize, & mobilize against, the threat posed by the GOPers.  

    Whistleblowing is the highest form of dissent.

    by Leftcandid on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 06:44:01 PM PDT

  •  It IS A Movement (0+ / 0-)

    Look, just because the pundits and 99 percent of the blogosphere ignores non voters does not diminish the power of their protest.

    ignoring the pathetic state of our "democracy" makes it all the more pathetic.

    "It's pretty clear human beings aren't improving". Spencer Greenberg - Rebellion Research

    by Superpole on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 06:45:23 PM PDT

    •  The vast majority of non voters aren't protesting (0+ / 0-)

      They just don't care enough about politics to vote period.

      But whether you are an informed citizen or not -- not voting allows the lunatic fringe and the moneyed interests to rule.

      And it's exactly the way they want it.

      Listen, don't think the corporeaucracy wasn't a tinged nervous seeing tens of thousands show up for Obama campaign rallies.  They were.  Don't think that they weren't a tish bothered by the way this man could raised as much money as a Republican without large, single source donors.  That's why the Supreme Court recently ruled that corps are 'people' too.

      For all of the energy thrown into stomping and screaming about not voting, nothing is being learned about what was done right to get Obama elected.

      That same energy could be parlayed into getting progressives elected at the local levels.  One reason that this country continously polls to the right of center is that conservatives got busy and started electing people locally.

      From there they took over counties, then whole state governments and now they have a national platform to espouse their conservative viewpoints because they are deeply entrenched.  When we don't see liberals and progressives at the local levels, it's that much harder to promote progressive ideas and values.

      I'm just sayin'...

      You're issuing a challenge to their sanity by saying that their interpretation of reality is flat wrong. ---Killjoy 7/24/10

      by smoothnmellow on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 08:45:27 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  I really don't think I follow this. (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    amk for obama

    If you want them to know you could have voted for them, but didn't, it's pretty simple.  Vote, but vote for someone else, even a write in.

    They'll notice pretty quickly if, out of, say 1 million votes cast, 600k of them are neither for the dem nor the repub.

    Just 'not voting' means you'll get lumped in with the people too apathetic to vote, no matter how much you 'raise a fuss'.

    Note to self: Quit insulting people. Note to others: If I insult you, please remind me that I'm trying to stop doing that.

    by Ezekial 23 20 on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 06:47:57 PM PDT

  •  GREAT diary!! Thanks! (0+ / 0-)

    Really good points. Helps clear out some of the cob webs on the subject!

    I may or may not vote Dem, but I will be voting. Our Green Party sounds quite good here in CA.

  •  Uh...NO. A "movement" of non-voting? Is... (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Alice in Florida, amk for obama

    ...this a joke?

    That's EXACTLY what "they" want.

    "They" don't care if it's a "movement". The end result is...YOU DIDN'T VOTE, and the worst possible candidate - the one MOST beholden to corporations and special interests - will win.

    The GOP is talking about removing the 17th amendment - the right to vote for your Senators.

    They don't care if you not voting is a fucking "movement" - they'll laugh at you. They WANT you to create a "movement" to NOT VOTE. That's their entire POINT.

    Ugh. What a WRETCHED thought.

    May the forces of evil become confused on the way to your house.

    by dasheight on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 07:16:41 PM PDT

  •  I have no fucking problem voting (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    askew, dww44, amk for obama

    to keep Republicans out of power. No fucking problem whatever. I don't want to hear about people staying home. It makes me furious.

    Some of them who will stay home and let Republicans take over will be screaming the loudest later. And they will have no goddamned credibility whatsoever.

  •  False consciousness (0+ / 0-)

    Believing that voting will make a difference is a failure to recognize that voting leads of our oppression or exploitation that is our own creation. As members of an oppressed class we unwittingly adopt a false idea given to us by our oppressors that voting makes a difference.

  •  Not to spoil your fun letting the media... (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    control your mindset, but who the fuck should really care?

    Harry Reid is entitled to think it's a dumb place to build a Mosque. Frankly, if I were building a place for people to congregate in peace and fellowship, I probably wouldn't build it there either. It's not my call, and it's not Harry Reid's call, and neither of us are saying folks don't have the right to build a mosque there, so why are you getting up in arms?

  •  Voting (0+ / 0-)

    I wholeheartedly agree, but recommend going one step further.


    Whenever someone I know decides that they can't stomach voting for any candidate on the ballot, I give a similar argument as you and then tell them, if they can't vote for anyone on the ballot, go anyway, ask for a write-in ballot, and write in someone they do like.  If they can't think of anyone, I suggest they write in "I hate you all!!!!" or something, and then submit that ballot.

    Because submitting a ballot, even one that will mean nothing towards who wins the race, still gets counted, and it shows that you care about voting enough to show up.  Boards of election count write-in ballots, a ballot like that wouldn't count towards anyone, but it would say that X+1 people voted in that district, and Y+1 voted with untabulatable write in votes (or however your Board of Election counts them).

    If enough people write in, even if they're not organized, it sends a tangible, quantifiable message that a portion of the population cares enough to vote, yet is unsatisfied with the choices available.  That's got to count for something, certainly counts for more than staying home.

  •  Everyday (0+ / 0-)

    I click on your website, and I have a very low IUD on your site, and I am so happy to see you writing again.
    But I am not voting for President Obama anymore.  It is my choice.  Do I like what is happening to him? No.  He has gone 180 out from what he ran on.  Color has nothing to do with it with me, but many people now are holding this against him.  
    I realize now, he was picked after the speech in 2004.  I know he won by 10 million votes, but he threw it all away, because he really was selected to toe the line.
    I dont care..  just like Grannie Doc... I dont care anymore.  My first election after 43 years starting with this off election, I am staying home, and unless someone challenges Obama I am staying home.

    Again, great to see you back on Daily Kos.

  •  I'm going to vote (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    But I've been warned by the mods:
    If I tell you who I'm voting for, I'll be permanently banned.

    Sweet fucking Jesus, I love how corporate Dems are dedicated to free speech.

    Illegal Alien: Term used by the descendents of foreign colonizers to refer to the descendents of indigenous people

    by mojada on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 09:33:52 PM PDT

    •  Don't ask, don't tell? (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      Yes, Dems are a piece of work these days.

      But I've been warned by the mods:
      If I tell you who I'm voting for, I'll be permanently banned.

      Sweet fucking Jesus, I love how corporate Dems are dedicated to free speech.

  •  None of the above (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Situational Lefty
    Every ballot should have a none of the above/below box
  •  :) (0+ / 0-)

    You're so gentle when you nudge friends on your own side. Good to see ya b.

    Elect more and better democrats
    Obama did more for the public option than anyone here.

    by CornSyrupAwareness on Tue Aug 17, 2010 at 12:01:53 AM PDT

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