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I live in a community that is one of the most liberal in the U.S.  Almost 72% of my county voted for Obama in 2008.  Our very liberal Representative (Van Hollen) received 74% of the vote in our district.  Our neighboring district voted for the maybe-even-more liberal Donna Edwards by 71%.  Gay marriage is probably supported by a similar percentage, and the gay parents of children in our school are never subjected to ugly comments or bad treatment.  And when it comes to religion, our family with its weekly Sunday and Hebrew school attendance is probably more the exception than the rule.  
So what's my problem?
The complacency that's led so many otherwise liberal and tolerant parents in our school to accept the homophobia and religious intolerance of the Boy Scouts national organization; to promote the Boy Scouts without being open about the national organization's discrimination.

Let me first be clear on what I'm asking:  while I would never put a child of mine in any offshoot of an openly bigoted organization, I do understand that the parents of children in the boy scouts feel the experience is important and worthwhile; the local troops/pack leaders will, on request, send you a wonderful statement of their inclusiveness.  The parents of local boy scouts, when asked, will tell you that they don't agree with the national policy.
But they don't come clean about the organization when they recruit.  They send out emails on our public school's PTA listserv extolling the virtues of boyscouting, telling how it builds character -- in a recent recruitment email, the author said:

About Scouting
The purpose of cub scouting is: "To provide boys an activity that helps build moral strength and character, develop fitness, and train in the responsibilities of active citizenship."

but somehow, some way, they neglect to mention in all these boy scout recruitment and support emails that the national organization, to which these troops/packs pay dues, has abhorrent, ugly and unacceptable official policies:

● Youth and Adult Volunteers
Boy Scouts of America believes that no member can grow into the best kind of citizen without recognizing an obligation to God. Accordingly, youth members and adult volunteer leaders of Boy Scouts of America obligate themselves to do their duty to God and be reverent as embodied in the Scout Oath and the Scout Law. Leaders also must subscribe to the Declaration of Religious Principle. Because of its views concerning the duty to God, Boy Scouts of America believes that an atheist or agnostic is not an appropriate role model of the Scout Oath and Law for adolescent boys. Because of Scouting’s methods and beliefs, Scouting does not accept atheists and agnostics as members or adult volunteer leaders.

http://www.bsalegal.org/...

For more than 20 years, the Boy Scouts of America has defended its membership standards. We went to the highest court in the land, the U.S. Supreme Court, in order to do so. The Boy Scouts of America, as a private organization, must have the right to establish its own standards of membership if it is to continue to instill the values of the Scout Oath and Law in boys. Thanks to our legal victories, our standards of membership have been sustained.

We believe an avowed homosexual is not a role model for the values espoused in the Scout Oath and Law.

http://web.archive.org/...
According to wikipedia (seems to have been removed from Boy Scout website):

In 2004, the BSA adopted a new policy statement, including the following as a "Youth Leadership" policy:

   "Boy Scouts of America believes that homosexual conduct is inconsistent with the obligations in the Scout Oath and Scout Law to be morally straight and clean in thought, word, and deed. The conduct of youth members must be in compliance with the Scout Oath and Law, and membership in Boy Scouts of America is contingent upon the willingness to accept Scouting’s values and beliefs. Most boys join Scouting when they are 10 or 11 years old. As they continue in the program, all Scouts are expected to take leadership positions. In the unlikely event that an older boy were to hold himself out as homosexual, he would not be able to continue in a youth leadership position."[14]

http://en.wikipedia.org/...

What I am asking of our local PTA listserv, what I am asking of DailyKos members who are BSA supporters, is that you include a statement with every recruitment, with every communication praising your troop/pack; a statement that reads something like:

While the Boy Scouts of America has official policies against athiest, agnostic and/or gay leaders and scouts, our troop stands for inclusiveness and is on record as opposing those discriminatory policies.

My husband and I have sent a request for this kind of statement to the president of the PTA.  He's a decent guy, but I think he would love to run as far as he could from this issue.  I'm hoping he'll give us at least some support, and the very liberal, very open, very tolerant, very accepting, very hip boy scout parents in our community will accept responsibility for their actions and make a public statement condemning the BSA discrimination when they communicate with other parents.  

Originally posted to Fruit of the Date Tree on Sun Sep 05, 2010 at 11:10 AM PDT.

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Comment Preferences

  •  Tip Jar (20+ / 0-)

    If, in our efforts to win, we become as dishonest as our opponents on the right, we don't deserve to triumph.

    by Tamar on Sun Sep 05, 2010 at 11:10:06 AM PDT

  •  I thought only Mormons and other religious nuts (5+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    DaleA, ExStr8, JeffW, hpchicago, IndieGuy

    still allowed their children into the Boy Scouts. This is depressing.

    Every time I see a bumper sticker that says, "I"m proud of my Boy/Eagle Scout" I always think, "yeah, but are you still going to be proud of him when he comes out? Probably not."

    "On the outskirts of every agony sits some observant fellow who points." -- Virginia Woolfe

    by Brainy Smurf on Sun Sep 05, 2010 at 11:25:46 AM PDT

    •  Well, I'm proud of my Eagle Scouts, both of them. (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      PubliusPublicola

      There's a lot more to the Scouts than the part mentioned in this diary, and their experience with Scouting taught my kids many things about responsibility, work, and service to others that have carried through into adulthood. One of them has spent time in Zimbabwe recently helping to create affordable housing. They are 28 years old now and are engineers (chemical for one, software for the other).

      But carry on thinking those who don't agree with your point of view are "religious nuts". It says more about you than about anyone else.

      Moderation in most things. Except Reactors. IFR forever!

      by billmosby on Sun Sep 05, 2010 at 02:24:29 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Did your kids simply ignore (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Brainy Smurf

        the anti-gay and/or anti-atheist/agnostic messasge or did they learn those as well?

        The bad stuff this organization does, in my opinion, completely negate any good it does.

        My mom wrote a great book on the church & gay marriage - buy it here! http://www.ermalouroller.com/

        by hpchicago on Sun Sep 05, 2010 at 03:50:47 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  You're assuming they got such messages. (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          elfling

          But they did not. They were nominally associated with an Episcopal church, but the troop was about as non-religious an organization as you can imagine. Perhaps it was an exception. We called it the "non-mormon" troop as it was formed partly to give "gentile" kids a troop that they wouldn't be discriminated against in. It was in a strongly-Mormon area, South East Idaho.

          Moderation in most things. Except Reactors. IFR forever!

          by billmosby on Sun Sep 05, 2010 at 04:41:42 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  I doubt you'd have any problem with a white only (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        homogenius

        country club either.

        Supporting an organization that is blatantly discriminatory is wrong.

        And there are other options besides BSA for people who are interested in all of the "good" parts.

        "On the outskirts of every agony sits some observant fellow who points." -- Virginia Woolfe

        by Brainy Smurf on Sun Sep 05, 2010 at 03:51:11 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Ding! Ding! Ding! (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          FeDhu, Brainy Smurf

          Or an organization that didn't allow jews.

          I'm sick to death of all the "but Scouting is such a good program" crap.

          I don't want to shut down the Boy Scouts--I want the US Congress to take away their Congressional Charter AND their monopoly on the Scouting name and emblems.

          Baden-Powell never intended a monolithic, corporatized organization. He wanted local people to buy his handbook and form their own local groups.

          I say let the BSA discriminate, but pull all public support. Take away their monopoly and let the Girl Scouts expand into boy's programs. Hell, with so much conservative leadership in the organization they should WELCOME some free market competition.

          The BSA can NEVER change--it's impossible. They are beholden to the mormons, first and formost. For decades now all the LDS has to do is stamp their little feet and threaten to withdraw and form their own organization. Right behind them are catholic, baptist, and methodist churches. These comprise the majority of sponsoring bodies.

          I want Congress to end their monopoly and I want worldwide Scouting to endorse it. Supposedly there is only supposed to be one authorized national body for Boys Scouts in each country, but they fudge on this all the time. Canada has separate English- and French-speaking organizations. But the international body recognizes them as "cooperative organizations". That's nothing more than a fig leaf.

          "[The GOP wanting to debate Obama is like saying] 'Let's see how tough Aquaman is when we get him in the water.' " --Seth Meyers

          by homogenius on Sun Sep 05, 2010 at 04:25:04 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  I think you miss the point -- I'm not saying (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        elfling, homogenius

        that the boy scouts do nothing good.  One of our local troops collects lots of food for soup kitchens.  I'm sure other troops do equally good things.  And your son sounds like a wonderful person.
        The point is that the leaders and parents involved in these troops should acknowledge openly the policies of the national organization.  While I wouldn't want a child of mine in the boy scouts, that doesn't mean I think all parents who put their kids in boy scouts are bad -- I just think that when they do it they have a responsibility to talk with their children about the awful policies of the national organization and to make it clear to their sons that their troop and their family will not tolerate any anti-gay or religiously intolerant talk or behavior; that the national organization is wrong and it's the responsibility of those in it to change it.
        I suggested to one parent of a boy scout (who said she opposed the national policy) that they could have their troop members write letters to the national organization opposing the policy -- maybe their troop could even establish a troop-only specialized badge for this.  She never replied.

        If, in our efforts to win, we become as dishonest as our opponents on the right, we don't deserve to triumph.

        by Tamar on Sun Sep 05, 2010 at 04:09:50 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Well, my kids, (0+ / 0-)

          they're twins, grew up aware of the fact that there is discrimination of all kinds going on, and they deplore it generally. They were exposed to a bit of religious bigotry in the Lutheran school we sent them to (anti Mormon and anti Catholic bigotry in equal parts) and we enlightened them about the truth in that case. The scout troop they were part of was always careful to teach them tolerance, too, among all the other life lessons they got there ("learn to think with your big head rather than your little one" was one lesson they got in their later years, for example).

          I'd say more but I have to leave now. Maybe I will when I get back.

          Moderation in most things. Except Reactors. IFR forever!

          by billmosby on Sun Sep 05, 2010 at 04:38:48 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

  •  I would also note that the Girl Scouts (17+ / 0-)

    have always taken a very different approach. I was involved with the Girl Scouts for men years when I was in elementary and high school. I am still in touch with the girls I went to Girl Scout camp with 50 years ago. Some are openly lesbian. It was never an issue.

  •  It's one of the reasons that at our town's (10+ / 0-)

    annual fall ritual gathering, I refuse to buy refreshments from the Boy Scouts. I won't support homophobia and anti-atheist bigotry with my money.

    On Sara Palin: "That woman...is an Idiot." -- Keith Olbermann

    by allergywoman on Sun Sep 05, 2010 at 11:35:00 AM PDT

  •  When my son reached the age at which he (9+ / 0-)

    ...was eligible to join the Boy Scouts, I looked around for an organization with similar experiences available--camping trips, group gatherings, etc.--which did not have the religious or homophobic slant of the Boy Scouts.

    And found only one, which was not as large or effective as the Boy Scouts.

    Bottom line, the Boy Scouts are, in the popular mind, the epitome of an organization for teen and pre-teen boys that teaches "good values" and is well accepted by society.

    Sadly, it will remain this way until the Boy Scouts are finally seen for what they are--a government-sanctioned body which practices intolerance and preaches religious conformity.

    "Certainly the game is rigged. Don't let that stop you; if you don't bet, you can't win." Lazarus Long

    by rfall on Sun Sep 05, 2010 at 11:40:49 AM PDT

  •  This made them a non-starter for me. (9+ / 0-)

    Boy Scouts of America believes that no member can grow into the best kind of citizen without recognizing an obligation to God.

    Atheists need not apply.

    "Certainly the game is rigged. Don't let that stop you; if you don't bet, you can't win." Lazarus Long

    by rfall on Sun Sep 05, 2010 at 11:41:52 AM PDT

    •   Yup (0+ / 0-)

      And only certain Christians need apply. When my older brother was a Weblow and Cub Scout, my mom was the den mother and leader of their particular pack and all was fine...until she started going back to church and everyone found out she was (gasp!) a Catholic. Suddenly there were people coming out of the woodwork to be pack leaders.

  •  Had My Son In Cub Scouts (6+ / 0-)

    Mostly at the insistence of my ex-wife. So glad he didn't want to move on to Boy Scouts. I think it may not get the bad publicity of the Catholic Church and its priests, but there is a problem there. Just a weird quasi-militaristic vibe.

    •  They're as bad as the catholic church. (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Tamar, JeffW

      It's come out in court now that the BSA actively hid abuse allegations on a national basis. They're shitting bricks because a prosecuter or plaintiff was able to break through their legal resistance.

      There are also widespread corporate problems with the BSA, including:

      1. Overinflating membership numbers (often to protect local executive's bonuses or promotions).
      1. Abuse of property including overdevelopment, logging, etc. sometimes in violation of the original deed of gift.
      1. Mergers of regional Councils with inflated executive salaries and lack of national oversight.
      1. An old boy/frathouse atmosphere in regional Council offices. I had a female coworker ten years ago who used to be an admin in the local Council--she said it was the most sexist, immature place she ever worked.

      The BSA is basically a good program run by bigots.

      "[The GOP wanting to debate Obama is like saying] 'Let's see how tough Aquaman is when we get him in the water.' " --Seth Meyers

      by homogenius on Sun Sep 05, 2010 at 04:32:55 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Thanks for bringing this up -- I forgot (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        homogenius

        about the recent spate of articles about hidden abuse in the Boy Scouts.  
        Does seem an awful lot like the Catholic hierarchy, doesn't it?

        If, in our efforts to win, we become as dishonest as our opponents on the right, we don't deserve to triumph.

        by Tamar on Sun Sep 05, 2010 at 04:46:20 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  I was a Boy Scout. I would have been an (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    elfling, oldpunk, billmosby, JenS

    Eagle Scout if I had not neglected pursuing merit badges for pursuing girls.   The Boy Scouts practice DADT.  Trust me on that one.  We never spoke about anyone's sexuality. The one rule is that if you leave your d#ck at home when you go camping anyone can be a Boy Scout.  

    The God thing only comes up when you say the Oath.   If you believe that you have no duty to God, what's the big deal?

    I have no problem with the Boy Scouts, just like I have no problem with any other voluntary organization.   Join or don't join.  No one forces you.  You choose the organization that suits your beliefs the best.  If you don't dig the Boy Scouts, then find another organization for your kids that suits your beliefs.   Me, I found the experience to be good.  I learned some good life skills and made some good friends.    

    Strength of character does not consist solely in having powerful feelings, but in maintaining one's balance in spite of them. - Clausewitz

    by SpamNunn on Sun Sep 05, 2010 at 11:42:32 AM PDT

    •  Everyone has a right to join or not, but (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      DaleA, sberel, homogenius, susanala

      in this case I'm asking for disclosure, particularly when the recruitment is on a public school PTA listserv.  I have not asked one parent to pull their child out of boy scouts.  I have not recommended to anyone that they not join.  I simply ask that on a public forum associated with our school that the promoters of the local troops come clean about the national organization.  I think it actually makes their troop look better to state the national policy and then make a strong statement disagreeing with that policy.  

      If, in our efforts to win, we become as dishonest as our opponents on the right, we don't deserve to triumph.

      by Tamar on Sun Sep 05, 2010 at 11:47:18 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I think it's pretty ballsy (4+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        homogenius, JeffW, FeDhu, Brainy Smurf

        for an organization that went to the US Supreme court to declare itself religious to then turn around and use tax funded services to promote itself.

        But they do it all the time.

        My mom wrote a great book on the church & gay marriage - buy it here! http://www.ermalouroller.com/

        by hpchicago on Sun Sep 05, 2010 at 03:54:14 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Um, their website makes their position pretty (0+ / 0-)

        clear.

        I simply ask that on a public forum associated with our school that the promoters of the local troops come clean about the national organization.

        Strength of character does not consist solely in having powerful feelings, but in maintaining one's balance in spite of them. - Clausewitz

        by SpamNunn on Sun Sep 05, 2010 at 07:15:16 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  But the fond father or mother of a 5 year old boy (0+ / 0-)

          won't necessarily go searching out the organization's policy on atheists, agnostics or gay scouts before joining up.
          When my little daughter started Brownies, I didn't go online about the Girl Scouts (though I already knew that they had no discriminatory national policy).  
          And if you go on the boy scout website, you learn that boy scouts are trustworthy, loyal, helpful, friendly, courteous, kind (these are the first 6 descriptive words in the video), etc. etc.  
          Nowhere does it say in the intro video that boy scouts are not gay and must be religious.  
          So the website doesn't really advertise the discriminatory policies of the BSA -- you have to look for them.  And to look for them, you have to have some inkling that it might be a problem.

          If, in our efforts to win, we become as dishonest as our opponents on the right, we don't deserve to triumph.

          by Tamar on Sun Sep 05, 2010 at 07:47:31 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

    •  But you're missing the point. (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Tamar, JeffW, FeDhu

      I say let them be a "private" organization--but without the congressionally mandated monopoly or recognition.

      Let them be incorporated under regular laws and under regular copyright and trademark law. And force the worldwide scouting body to recognize other US scouting groups that admit everyone.

      The BSA doesn't deserve a Congressional Charter.

      "[The GOP wanting to debate Obama is like saying] 'Let's see how tough Aquaman is when we get him in the water.' " --Seth Meyers

      by homogenius on Sun Sep 05, 2010 at 04:36:02 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  That's the thing, BSA is pretty much a (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      SpamNunn

      monopoly. There are very few alternate choices and those that exist have nowhere near the clout, resources, recognition or protection that the BSA enjoys.

      Both my brothers, my dad and two uncles are Eagle Scouts, so to say my family has a history with the Boy Scouts is an understatement. My older brother was a counselor at Philmont and worked at several National Jamborees...until someone realized he was gay and suddenly he is persona non-grata in an organization he worked for and supported for most of his life. My little brother dropped it shortly after getting his Eagle because the local group was getting increasingly religious.

      It's a shame that they lost something they both enjoyed a great deal not because of something they did, but because someone else did not like what they are. They've both gone on to other things, obviously, but loosing BSA hurt them both.

  •  Excellent, important diary, Tamar. (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    sberel, homogenius, hpchicago

    Thanks for what you're doing.

    I find the current leadership of the Boy Scouts despicable.

    Stonewall was a RIOT!

    by ExStr8 on Sun Sep 05, 2010 at 11:42:39 AM PDT

  •  This is fine, IMO. (6+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    DaleA, sberel, lotlizard, Tamar, JeffW, susanala

    For more than 20 years, the Boy Scouts of America has defended its membership standards. We went to the highest court in the land, the U.S. Supreme Court, in order to do so. The Boy Scouts of America, as a private organization, must have the right to establish its own standards of membership if it is to continue to instill the values of the Scout Oath and Law in boys. Thanks to our legal victories, our standards of membership have been sustained.

    If, in being a private organization, it is not given tax breaks, preferred access to government buildings, or otherwise allowed to feed at the public trough.  When the highest courts in the land finally rule so, then and only then will I cease to be opposed to what the Boy Scout organization is doing.

    "Certainly the game is rigged. Don't let that stop you; if you don't bet, you can't win." Lazarus Long

    by rfall on Sun Sep 05, 2010 at 11:45:33 AM PDT

    •  Unfortunately, they've gotten legal (6+ / 0-)

      support for their ugly policies, including legislation protecting them.
       I agree with you completely.  If they want to be a narrow religious organization committed to bigotry -- they have that right.  But they should operate without any public support or funding.  
      I view the PTA listserve as a kind of public support which is why I'm pushing for a disclosure statement.  Meanwhile, I received an email from a friend (one of the two mothers of a friend of my daughter's) supporting me but warning me that there has been discussion about banning my emails about this issue.
      I have been unfailingly polite, temperate and courteous in what I've said.  I've responded positively and pleasantly to the parents who justify their participation by saying:
      only a tiny portion of our money goes to the national organization; our troop has a written policy opposing the national policy; scouting has been wonderful for my son; we think by participating we will change the national organization.  
      I have not said anything partisan.  I have not said anyone shouldn't join or continue to participate in boy scouts.  The PTA president commended everyone engaged in the email exchange for the temperate and courteous tone of the emails.
      If they ban my statements -- what does that say about these liberal/progressive people.

      If, in our efforts to win, we become as dishonest as our opponents on the right, we don't deserve to triumph.

      by Tamar on Sun Sep 05, 2010 at 11:55:15 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Amen, sister! (6+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        DaleA, sberel, ExStr8, lotlizard, Tamar, hpchicago

        But they should operate without any public support or funding.

        only a tiny portion of our money goes to the national organization

        I'm sure that everyone who has been part of an evil group has salved their conscience by saying the same sorts of things.

        Sometime one just has to take a stand.

        "Certainly the game is rigged. Don't let that stop you; if you don't bet, you can't win." Lazarus Long

        by rfall on Sun Sep 05, 2010 at 11:58:17 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  And it is painful -- we love our school (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          hpchicago

          and community.  I really don't want to make enemies.  
          I know the boy scout promoters and PTA listserve moderators are probably saying "oh those people are just such troublemakers."  And yet the ones who have trouble with our concerns are people who probably went out campaigning for Obama!  
          I already caused some trouble last year when I objected to a "Santa Claus" reading to the kids at a school event (I was incredibly surprised that they would even think of doing that in a public school that is very mixed racially and religiously -- not just Jews & atheists or agnostics, we have quite a few Muslims!).  The PTA responded very well to that and I felt good about it.  
          But I guess that little incident and now my outspokenness on the boy scouts has me pigeon-holed as a whiner and complainer.  2 complaints in 6 years....

          If, in our efforts to win, we become as dishonest as our opponents on the right, we don't deserve to triumph.

          by Tamar on Sun Sep 05, 2010 at 12:08:23 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

  •  There is a good alternative (4+ / 0-)

    SpiralScouts International is open to boys and girls, gay, bi, and straight, believing in a Deity (or more than one), agnostic, or atheist. And it is still growing. Maybe there's a circle in your area. If not, maybe you can start one.

    Living kidney donor needed; type B, O, or incompatible (with paired donation). Drop me a note (see profile).

    by Kitsap River on Sun Sep 05, 2010 at 12:44:55 PM PDT

  •  The Boy Scouts' stance on human rights - the ... (6+ / 0-)

    ...rights of all humans, not just a particular subset - is abominable.

    That stance is the main reason I do not give money to the Combined Federal Campaign when they come knocking every year.  I refuse to participate in any endeavor that openly supports intolerance and hatred.

    And for the record, I was a Scout when I was younger.  Maybe it didn't take.

    "We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid." -Ben Franklin

    by IndieGuy on Sun Sep 05, 2010 at 12:57:38 PM PDT

    •  I target my CFC donations to groups that (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      ExStr8, hpchicago, IndieGuy

      embody my values. You don't need to give a general donation; it takes a bit longer to do otherwise but it's certainly do-able. I manage to contribute to ten to 15 organizations each year and all of them appreciate it.

      On the other hand the SF's United Way (which is a CFC beneficiary) stopped distributing funding the local BSA back in late '91 or early '92, one of the first charitable groups to step away from sponsoring the Scouts because of their policies. My late partner, who worked there before he died, was instrumental in getting that policy adopted.

      •  Yeah, I know that. I do that outside CFC. (0+ / 0-)

        It's just the principal of the thing.

        "We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid." -Ben Franklin

        by IndieGuy on Sun Sep 05, 2010 at 01:19:21 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  read about the way they cut off Boy Scouts (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        ExStr8, hpchicago

        on one of the sites I accessed when writing this diary.  Wish all the United Ways would do this.
        I'm feeling pretty low about the lack of sensitivity to this issue in my community.  If a bluest of blues community doesn't get it, who will?

        If, in our efforts to win, we become as dishonest as our opponents on the right, we don't deserve to triumph.

        by Tamar on Sun Sep 05, 2010 at 01:41:53 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  I suspect they way they see it is (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          billmosby

          They don't listen that closely to the national directives, and as long as they quietly go their way, taking the good of scouting, leaving out the anti-atheist and anti-gay crap, that they are helping to create good young men and giving them skills and confidence for the world.

          Fry, don't be a hero! It's not covered by our health plan!

          by elfling on Sun Sep 05, 2010 at 03:13:03 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  So they're the "good Germans" is that it? (0+ / 0-)

            Please, make all the excuses you like, but supporting bigotry is supporting bigotry. You and they are complicit. You are no better than someone in South Carolina who belongs to an all white country club but "has lots of black friends."

            "On the outskirts of every agony sits some observant fellow who points." -- Virginia Woolfe

            by Brainy Smurf on Sun Sep 05, 2010 at 04:03:54 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

        •  Your fighting against motherhood and apple pie (0+ / 0-)

          at least in people's emotion brain.

          Much like the image of the 50's that never was - I love Lucy, Leave it to Beaver, Happy Days etc. No mention of those pesky brown folks or that nasty cold war.

          The attitude is The Boy Scouts are what's RIGHT with America. Please don't confuse us with the reality ....

          My mom wrote a great book on the church & gay marriage - buy it here! http://www.ermalouroller.com/

          by hpchicago on Sun Sep 05, 2010 at 03:59:26 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

  •  I am glad to have a daughter (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    billmosby

    and thus not to have to confront this issue.

    The Boy Scout leader in my community is a wonderful person and I'd be very pleased to have a son under his wing. The issues at the national level wouldn't be seen here. The Boy Scouts here are good people; we also have the alternative of 4H.

    I hope you are able to achieve something positive by your actions.

    Fry, don't be a hero! It's not covered by our health plan!

    by elfling on Sun Sep 05, 2010 at 03:11:11 PM PDT

    •  How good are they? (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Tamar

      Would they still be good if they were governed by a national body that discriminated against blacks or jews?

      The BSA is not a democratic organization. It stifles dissent and covers up wrongoing. Most people who defend them don't really know what goes on behind the scenes.

      "[The GOP wanting to debate Obama is like saying] 'Let's see how tough Aquaman is when we get him in the water.' " --Seth Meyers

      by homogenius on Sun Sep 05, 2010 at 05:09:33 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

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