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NY Times:

Mr. Obama, and his party, have to do a far better job of explaining their vision and their policies. Mr. Obama needs to break his habits of neglecting his base voters and of sitting on the sidelines and allowing others to shape the debate. He needs to do a much better job of stiffening the spines of his own party’s leaders.

This is what happens when you neglect the base:

  1. The 2008 electorate was 74% white, plus 13% black and 9% Latino. The 2010 numbers were 78, 10 and 8. So it was a considerably whiter electorate.
  1. In 2008, 18-to-29-year-olds made up 18% and those 65-plus made up 16%. Young people actually outvoted old people. This year, the young cohort was down to 11%, and the seniors were up to a whopping 23% of the electorate. That's a 24-point flip.
  1. The liberal-moderate-conservative numbers in 2008 were 22%, 44% and 34%. Those numbers for yesterday were 20%, 39% and 41%. A big conservative jump, but in all likelihood because liberals didn't vote in big numbers.

Add to these figures the fact that overall turnout was down by about a third, or more, from nearly 130 million to about 82.5 million. That's at least 45 million no-shows, and the exits tell us the bulk of them were liberal, young, black, Latino. If 25 million of these no-shows had voted, Democratic losses would pretty obviously have been in the normal range, and they'd still control the House.

What has happened has happened. I'm less interested in talking about the ways the administration screwed up, than in what they're going to do about it in preparation of 2012. First thing's first -- stop bashing the base, or the professional left, or whatever liberal boogeymen pisses them off. Fact is, people who fall in those disaffected categories -- the young, blacks, Latinos -- don't read blogs, or watch Keith Olbermann, or read Firedoglake. But they are losing their jobs and their homes, and they see Wall Street get all manners of bailouts without any of it trickling down to them. That has killed us. Make their lives better, or (since nothing will happen with Boehner in the House) at least fight to make their lives better.

This isn't about throwing a bone to the base to make them happy, it's about doing the right thing for America -- fight for jobs, fight for opportunity, fight for equality under the law. Democrats believe that government can make people's lives better, so embrace and fight for that belief. If Democrats are in it to protect Goldman Sachs, they might as well flip to the other team.

The administration needs to stop pretending they're going to woo the Right, and start looking at their reelection battle the way Bush saw his -- as a time to mobilize the base and get them engaged in an epic war. Luckily, they won't have to deal with the Beltway Blowhards screaming about "bipartisanship", since that's no longer operative in a GOP-led House. The media only cares about bipartisanship when the Democrats have both the White House and Congress.

Obama needs to fire Tim Kaine at the DNC. He's been useless. His political team also needs to provide an honest assessment of OFA's effectiveness, given its inability to get Obama's most rabid young supporters to the polls. Heck, why not bring back Howard Dean to give us a DNC that many activists and state parties can believe in again and once again work towards a national 50-state party? Tim Kaine is yet another Blue Dog-style Democrat of the kind that got decimated last night. We don't need more of that polluting our party.

It's going to be a tough slog in the next two years, but as we learned yesterday, two years is a political eternity and everything can and will happen. The American people are schizophrenic -- exit polls found that:

  1. Republicans are more unpopular than Democrats, yet they still voted GOP;
  1.  35 percent believed Wall Street was to blame for the terrible economy, yet they still voted for the GOP. (56-42, to be exact).
  1. 31 percent of voters wanted the new health care law expanded, yet 14 percent of them voted Republican. 30% want the law kept he same as it is now, and 30% of them voted Republican.

There's more, but you get the point. Democrats didn't lose because Republicans are suddenly popular, or people embrace their agenda. Democrats lost because people are angry and desperate and flailing and had to punish someone for the nation's economic woes. There's little there for the GOP to build on.

Furthermore, we're about to see an epic civil war between DeMint and his disciples, and the GOP establishment. There's no way Boehner can thread the needle between governing and maintaining ideological purity. The two are not mutually compatible. We're already seeing it with Boehner's contortions on lifting the debt ceiling -- no matter what he does, he can't win (avert economic disaster, or appease the teabaggers). Throw in a GOP presidential primary that will be a race to Crazyville, and the GOP is in for a rough couple of years.

But for once, let's not win because the GOP screwed up royally. Let's win because we find and support strong leadership. That starts at the top, and Obama has to step up. But it runs through the DNC (Bring Back Dean!). It runs through us as we help identify great new candidates for House and Senate races, as well as local races all the way down to school board.

The decimation of the Blue Dogs means that our own internal war will be quick and easy. It's kind of hard to argue that Dems should move Right, when the Blue Dog caucus went from 54 members to 26 literally overnight. So sure, we'll have to deal with Third Way's corporatist bullshit, but aside from that, we can focus on the important thing -- and that's beating back the Boehner House and the crazed teabaggers that have taken over the GOP.

I see them gloating today, and all I can think is, "bring it on, motherfuckers". Because 2012 will be here sooner rather than later, and I can't wait.

Originally posted to Daily Kos on Wed Nov 03, 2010 at 12:46 PM PDT.

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Comment Preferences

  •  Obama will be fine, the haters will keep losing (27+ / 0-)

    Obama's approval rating is robust. He's going to be fine. His base is strong and for anyone paying attention, they'll notice it was the only thing that saved candidates like Harry Reid. It's the haters in Congress and here on Kos today who should worry, if they learned anything from last night, which apparently they didn't.

    Democrats are missing their opportunity to learn from their losses and are looking for an authority figure to blame. It's the same mistake they've been making all along, both in the blogosphere and in Congress. The problem for the Democrats looking for a scapegoat to explain their losses is that the only people they have to blame are the politicians who fought the president.

    Russ Feingold was a great guy. He stood by his principles and didn't take any shit. He also lost his re-election because he didn't stand by the president like other liberals did when it came time to vote, and Obama's base evidently didn't feel inspired enough by this attitude to get out and vote to keep the guy in office.

    Blue Dogs suffered the same fate. They went after Obama and his agenda at every opportunity and in the end, they paid the price. The base they needed, the one that elected them in 2006 and who are motivated by Obama, it wasn't there for them yesterday. It was there for some candidates, but not for those who fought the president.

    Blanche Lincoln went down for the same reason. And many of them deserved it.

    Democrats can piss and moan all day long about Obama, because in America, Americans look to authoritarians for someone to blame when they can't face up to where the blame really belongs.

    But Obama will be fine. He's got his base.

    The rest of you, the people attacking Obama from the left and the Blue Dogs calling for him to come to the right... you're the ones who will pay the price in 2012 if in the end you don't line up behind the president.

    You guys did it to yourselves by attacking our guy for the last 6 months and undercutting him at every turn, and so his base stayed home and you lost all your candidates in Congress.

    But don't think that you're going to be able to fix your mistake by repeating it for the next 6.

    The lesson from last night is clear. Those who supported Obama and stuck with him had a much better chance of surviving. Those who voted against him either out of principle or cynicism, did not.

    You can't argue with the base. If you attack their guy, they won't support you. Bloggers on the left can learn that lesson or not, but either way Obama will be fine. His base will be there for him.

    Your precious Congressional candidates and their precious ideals however may not be... if they continue the infighting with their president and his base.

  •  YES! YES! AND YES!! (50+ / 0-)

    Obama needs to fire Tim Kaine at the DNC. He's been useless. His political team also needs to provide an honest assessment of OFA's effectiveness, given its inability to get Obama's most rabid young supporters to the polls. Heck, why not bring back Howard Dean to give us a DNC that many activists and state parties can believe in again and once again work towards a national 50-state party? Tim Kaine is yet another Blue Dog-style Democrat of the kind that got decimated last night. We don't need more of that polluting our party.

    •  Alan Grayson for WH Press secretary (7+ / 0-)

      You have to admit, it would make the PCs must-see TV.

      We don't want our country back, we want our country FORWARD. --Eclectablog

      by Samer on Wed Nov 03, 2010 at 12:54:13 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  chelle now this is you talk about what needs to (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      lirtydies, chelle in mo

      be done Thank you. you articulated a problem without faulting or referring to his balls. This is how we should respond. We need to stop with finger pointing diaries. Let talk about what needs to be done and you just articulated it greatly. Thank you.

      •  I'm sick of all the finger pointing (5+ / 0-)

        don't get me wrong, I've been pretty vocal myself at times - but today I saw a President who has clearly been humbled and needs our help.

        Howard Dean is my true political hero. Has been since 2003, and nothing has changed since. So, this morning, in the face of yesterday's disaster, I asked myself, "what would Dean do?" Two things I was sure of: 1) he would NOT be bashing our President and 2) he'd be gearing up to fight the Republicans. So, I'm going to emulate the man I admire so much and follow suit.

        (and thanks for your kind words!) =)

    •  Blue Dogs exist BECAUSE of 50-state strategy (0+ / 0-)

      Who else is going to win swing seats?  Not progressives (except in good years, and then they're really vulnerable, cf. Tom Periello).  Don't get me wrong; I'm not a fan of a lot of Blue Dogs' choices.  They could do a much better job of positioning themselves as economic populists, e.g. with healthcare.  (In fact, all Democrats could.)

      Anyway, Dean (and Rahm) specifically recruited Dems who could win in swing districts, and a lot of them, by definition, tended to be more conservative.  Until the country's center swings a lot further to the left -- which seems to be demographically likely, but will take a generation or so -- we're going to have to settle for a big tent if we want majorities.  We can't have idealogical purity AND be the party in power any more than the GOP can.  

  •  We need Dean (27+ / 0-)

    good call

    "They said they would not dance, and they broke their promise to me," said Evans, who attended the event. "They just can't be trusted."

    by alpolitics on Wed Nov 03, 2010 at 12:49:11 PM PDT

    •  i am glad he was NOT DNC chair. (6+ / 0-)

      because he could not have changed what happened this cycle.  I would love to see him lead us for 2012 when we will be victorious again.

    •  What we need is: (19+ / 0-)

      "I'm replacing Tim Geithner with Elizabeth Warren."

      I know, I know: pipe dream.

      •  Pipe dream indeed. (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        TomP

        I'll be surprised if the President gets a vote on any nominee outside the military and the post office for 2 years.  A new T Secretary would seem out of the question whether Warren or some republican hack.  Well, maybe he could get a vote out of the Senate if he appointed phil gramm, but few others.

        A learning experience is one of those things that says, 'You know that thing you just did? Don't do that.' Douglas Adams

        by dougymi on Wed Nov 03, 2010 at 01:09:02 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  Yes, bring back Howard Dean!!! (10+ / 0-)

      I spoke with him a few weeks ago about how much he enjoyed being DNC chair and I'm sure he would take the job in a minute if asked.

      We also need creativity to motivate the base. And we need actual strategy among groups, not just campaign tactics. With unlimited corporate money coming in we've got to get smarter about our campaigning. The other side has no shame (witness spam text messages they sent to Democrats in tight districts) and we will need to improve our efficiency in use of resources.

      In California I did not see the same effort put into registering young voters and getting them to vote as in 2008. Whatever foundations were funding that previously need to keep stepping up to the plate.

    •  I want Dean to run for president again. (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Vicky, The Nose, Lucy2009

      OK, not in 2012 (but a lot can change til then) but in 2016.  

      What was lost with Dean in 2004 was monumental, but his potential was evidenced by his DNC chairmanship.  

      I want Dean again.

      "There's been a little complication with my complication"

      by dash888 on Wed Nov 03, 2010 at 01:16:27 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  starts here (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      hester, chelle in mo, BaritoneWoman

      Seems like Dean was chair because of the netroots and it's the netroots that will bring him back.

    •  keep in mind (4+ / 0-)

      that Dean's 50 state strategy basically included an expansion into red territory - districts as well as states. This by its nature means more Blue Dogs. So while those conservadems did give us the majority and Pelosi, our majority was extremely weak and our agenda watered down.

      The bigger the base, the greater the weight breaking it apart. Personally, that independence (imagine Dems being as conformed as the R's were these past two years) is one of the things that make Dems superior to R's, and I am all for a big D tent, but...it does come with problems.

      That said, the doctor is a smart man, has proved himself and gets my support too!

    •  Will he take the job? (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      damfino

      IMHO, he'd and we'd be better off  with him outside of the official Democratic apparatus, but that would mean he would have to have a funding source that would be (and I'm just spit-balling this figure) at least 1/4 of what the Shadow GOP had this cycle and will have in 2012. I think we don't need to match the GOP official, Shadow or otherwise dollar for dollar, but we do need to have an operation or operations that can do what was neglected the past 22 months: constant organizing around issues, separate from what the WH, Congressional Leadership, State Parties, etc.  

      DfA, One Nation, etc. can do this. ACORN was amazingly efficient at this, which is why the GOP was intent on shutting them down by any means necessary and possible. ACORN was virtually impervious to being outspent because its organizing wasn't built on amassing financial assets, to state the very obvious. The GOP could never "buy them off", so they had to in the words of Paladino "take them out." The Bayhs, Lincolns, the DLC and more recently Third Way never did "get" ACORN for pretty much the same reasons that the GOP decided to cripple them - that they actually killed ACORN was simply an unexpected bonus.

      But there is that baseline need to fund these entities and keep them independent of the DNC/DCCC/DSCC/DLCC/DGA umbrella.

      "Power concedes nothing without a demand. It never did and it never will." -- Frederick Douglass

      by Egalitare on Wed Nov 03, 2010 at 01:34:29 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  The Repugs will do nothing (20+ / 0-)

    but play stupid political games and start bullshit investigations. They aren't capable of governing, you watch.

    "I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

    by Jeff Y on Wed Nov 03, 2010 at 12:49:14 PM PDT

  •  Excellent piece (15+ / 0-)

    Great commentary, I just wish the White House is listening.

    Hopefully, the decimation of the Blue Dogs will help.

  •  Well done (9+ / 0-)

    We should push for a bigger bailout, marriage equality, expanding HCR, the Obama Tax Cuts, regulating Wall Street and gutting Citizens United.

    That would fire me up!

  •  Speaking of 2012 (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Nulwee, drmah, Stroszek, damfino

    there was a time when dKos devoted a lot of column space to reforming the presidential primary calendar.  Does anybody still care about that?  And if so, do you think it would be easier in a cycle where the primary is essentially uncontested?

    The question is not whether the chickens needed replacing, the question is whether the fox should have been guarding them in the first place.

    by happymisanthropy on Wed Nov 03, 2010 at 12:50:00 PM PDT

  •  I am ready (6+ / 0-)

    2002 was a grim election--this was expected.  Onward.

  •  "He will try to work with the GOP" (14+ / 0-)

    Everything else is not relevant, since he seems unable to wake up from his dream.

  •  Via Adam Serwer... (3+ / 0-)

    I guess that this is the speech that some liberals would like to see Obama give...

  •  I agree that we need to ditch Kaine. I am also (28+ / 0-)

    concerned about the effectiveness of OFA. I worked for Holt in NJ-12. OFA were calling the same voters that we were, and some voters received as many as 8 calls. This is more than enough to turn voters off. I had robo call from everyone from President Obama to Rush Holt's mother. Time to re-evaluate OFA.

  •  Minority turnout (7+ / 0-)

    I'd like to learn where minority turnout faltered, because at least locally things were steady.

    In 2006, Philadelphia gave Bob Casey a 357K-67K advantage over Rick Santorum that led to a 59%-41% (710K) win statewide.

    In 2010, Philadelphia gave Joe Sestak a 349K-66K advantage over Pat Toomey that led to a 49%-51% (77K) loss statewide.  

    (In 2008, it was 595K-117K for Obama.)

    In other words, Philadelphia turnout was depressed from 2008, but that's expected -- it was still consistent with the previous midterm.  Where things flipped in PA was everywhere else, partially in the Phila suburbs (Bucks went from 59-41 Casey to 53-47 Toomey) but especially in western PA -- a 100K swing in Allegheny County (Pittsburgh + surroundings), Westmoreland went from 53-47 Casey to 60-40 Toomey, etc.  

  •  kos, (15+ / 0-)

    you and I are thinking the same... last night I posted this in one of the results threads:

    Is tomorrow too soon (12+ / 0-)
    to start a petition to get Howard Dean reappointed as DNC Chairman?

    by chelle in mo on Tue Nov 02, 2010 at 05:07:06 PM CDT
    [ Reply to This ]

  •  We will win 2012 (6+ / 0-)

    Republicans secret dream = the impeachment of Bo the Dog LOL

    by LaurenMonica on Wed Nov 03, 2010 at 12:51:20 PM PDT

  •  AMEN, Markos, AMEN... (28+ / 0-)

    Tim Kaine needs to be fired, ASAP.  His job was to get Democrats elected and he failed MISERABLY.  Put aside friendships, Obama and see the big picture.

    White House, total overhaul.  How this WH missed out on the economy and jobs is unbelievable, I am still stunned at that from the presser of Obama.

    And get your base energized and everyone on the same page.

    Obama, dude you got a lot of work to do.  But it can be done....

    •  recently Obama said (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      mmacdDE, Vicky

      something to the effect that basically ALL his initiatives were designed to create jobs.
      Obamacare is already creating jobs, although it's doubtful Wall Street reform will create many jobs for janitors, machinists, etc.
      imho - he had to walk a fine line between telling the public just how BAD Bush's Great Recession really was and still is - and not creating a panic in the stock market.
      But maybe I'm wrong.....

    •  Your lack of disrespect is beginning to be to (0+ / 0-)

      much Dude.

    •  On the other side (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      ssgbryan, ImagineOhio

      Michael Steele must feel like he won the lottery.

      "The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it." -- George Bernard Shaw

      by Inspector Javert on Wed Nov 03, 2010 at 01:11:09 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  You ask Obama something which he can't do, ie (0+ / 0-)

      being a feisty, polemic, rethorical guy. It's not in him.

      It would be nice if Obama had someone, who can do this for him. We need an "angry" Democrat as a leader and speaker. Someone who does the shouting and the nailing, so that Obama can keep his style. Reid was not that man. Pelosi was not that woman. So, show me a Democrat, who can be an "impolite" Democrat, who constantly nails it, is loyal to Obama and loved by the progressive base?

      Obama would need "parents". One parent which will always criticize him and give him a tough time, the other one, sabotaging the other parent, telling him, through the backdoor "heh, buddy, that's a bit of tough love, but we love you nevertheless".

  •  In 2010, aka the 21st century (12+ / 0-)

    half of Americans support gay marraige. Not even half our Democratic senators come out and say gays deserve to get married if they wish. The section of the public that supports gay marraige grows every year.

    A large but somewhat less certain percentage of Americans support full legalization of marijuana--but the Democratic Party is AWOL on this progressive issue.

    You know what those two issues have in common? They have strong support among young voters.

    There will be millions more Millenial voters (potential... voters) in 2012 than 2008. They will not vote if they are not appealed to. I know many Oregonians didn't vote because Kitzhaber gave them no reason to be excited, and I'm sure Kitzhaber is loving that right now. Even if he wins, an Oregon statewide election should not be this close.

  •  Good diary... (5+ / 0-)
    ...I agree wholeheartedly with your assessment.

    I don't always drink beer, but when I do, I become a messageboard genius. Stay thirsty, my friends. -(Message from The World's Most Interesting Kossack)

    by wyvern on Wed Nov 03, 2010 at 12:51:36 PM PDT

  •  Its just one big (14+ / 0-)

    fucking long election cycle here in this country isn't it?

    It never ends!  No wonder nothing much gets done... you are constantly having to campagin!

    California turned Blue America turned Insane.

    by GlowNZ on Wed Nov 03, 2010 at 12:51:40 PM PDT

  •  Turnout is always down in a midterm. (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    slinkerwink, mmacdDE

    The important part is who comes out, not the fact that turnout is less overall.

    The President brought a ton of new, young voters in 2008.  Will they be back in 2012?  Or will 4 years have seen them give up on politics again?

    Wow, Independents put down the centrist Blue Dogs, and somehow liberals are to blame?

    by Ezekial 23 20 on Wed Nov 03, 2010 at 12:51:51 PM PDT

  •  Obama = Wall St Apologist (10+ / 0-)

    All along it was Bush who was playing 11th dimensional chess.

    By forcing Obama to sign on to TARP, not only did they give a big parting gift to their corporate/Wall St backers, they forced Obama to be branded as an apologist for Wall St/The Fed/Geittner.

    Had Obama been able to run against Wall Street - had Dems been able to distance themselves from blame for the financial crisis, we would have saved some seats.

    I'm convinced that Obama doesn't have a populist bone in his body, and that there is a real danger of a faux populist who is semi-competent (like Huckabee or Mitch Daniels) winning the GOP nomination and then the Presidency.

    The object of persecution is persecution. The object of torture is torture. The object of power is power. --George Orwell

    by jgkojak on Wed Nov 03, 2010 at 12:51:53 PM PDT

    •  Obama knew that TARP would (5+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      mmacdDE, Vicky, IPLawyer, moonpal, MartyM

      be unpopular. But it was vitally necessary. He signed on because he does what is right for the country. A Tea Partier would have let the banks fail, but President Obama is not a Tea Partier.

      I'm in the I-fucking-love-this-guy wing of the Democratic Party!

      by doc2 on Wed Nov 03, 2010 at 12:58:03 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  And it utterly failed (0+ / 0-)

        We still have zombie banks.  Should have just run RTC Act 2 and cleared the shit out of the system.

        We are going to do a repeat of Japan without the advantage of a social security net or savings.

        Nothing but good times ahead!!

        •  It failed because it didn't (0+ / 0-)

          solve all the problems? No. It was intended to avert an even worse catastrophe, and it did. Your criteria makes little sense.

          I'm in the I-fucking-love-this-guy wing of the Democratic Party!

          by doc2 on Wed Nov 03, 2010 at 02:09:13 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  TARP (0+ / 0-)

          What you fail to mention is that almost 70% of TARP has been repaid.
          See my essay, The Easiest Way to Rob a Bank is to Own one."
          Also, in favor of your post, we need to distinguish between TARP and the ARRA ( or stimulus).
          I fear that stimulus funding is dead.
          And, without stimulus, unemployment will get worse. It may get worse all the way through 2012.

      •  no, it was the way that tarp was implemented (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Cofcos

        that caused the problem.  it was too wall st. friendly and there was no effective counterpart for main st.  

        hamp was a complete failure.

        big badda boom : GRB 080913

        by squarewheel on Wed Nov 03, 2010 at 01:49:39 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  TARP was flawed. (0+ / 0-)

          As are all policies that are crafted very quickly to deal with an emergency. It was blatant mismanagement under Bush that necessitated TARP. And while it was flawed, it did do what it needed to and it was indeed absolutely critical.

          I'm in the I-fucking-love-this-guy wing of the Democratic Party!

          by doc2 on Wed Nov 03, 2010 at 02:10:42 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

    •  I'm convinced you have fallen victim to the (5+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      red moon dog, mmacdDE, lirtydies, mcmom, MartyM

      propaganda.

      WASHINGTON – The public panned it. Republicans obstructed it. Many Democrats fled from it. Even so, the session of Congress now drawing to a close was the most productive in nearly half a century.
      Not since the explosive years of the civil rights movement and the hard-fought debut of government-supported health care for the elderly and poor have so many big things — love them or hate them — been done so quickly.
      Gridlock? It may feel that way. But that's not the story of the 111th Congress — not the story history will remember.
      Democrats are dearly hoping history won't repeat itself. In 1966, after Democrats created Medicare and Medicaid and passed civil rights laws, they got hammered in the election, losing 48 seats in the House and four in the Senate. They maintained their majorities in both at the time, but an identical result next month would turn the House over to Republicans.

      "Bush Peed all over the place and they act like Obama is the one pulling up his zipper." - Wanda Sykes.

      by SharksBreath on Wed Nov 03, 2010 at 01:04:44 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  The name calling and labeling should stop. (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Jerry056
  •  gain, more of the blue dog bullshit (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Guinho, Vicky

    again, I'm not saying they're right or wrong, but the blue dogs lost because they were easy targets, not because they were necessarily wrong

    •  We stacked arms on them. (0+ / 0-)

      That's part of being an easy target - not having anyone willing to cover your six.

      No tears for millionaires.

      by Steaming Pile on Wed Nov 03, 2010 at 12:57:47 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Disagree. Check this out: (5+ / 0-)

      Of the 39 Dems who voted against Health Care Reform, 12 are going to be returning in the next Congress.

      That's a powerful argument for corporate/conservadems to either fall in line or switch parties.

      •  I think someone else posted somewhere (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Guinho, dww44

        that, when looking at blue dogs alone, voting for or against health care didn't make a bit a difference on who won or lost.

        Sure, you can say "of the 39 who voted against, 17 lost, and of the XYZ number who voted for it, only W lost" but you'd be completely ignoring the dynamics of each race.

        Most of the people who voted against it were already in vulnerable seats and may have lost anyway. Many of the blue dogs who voted for health care lost anyway.

        They lost because they were in vulnerable seats, not because they voted against HCR or were blue dogs

        •  Why were their seats vulnerable? (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          lirtydies

          Because the economy is lousy, and they lacked a coherent message. (I'll vote against Obama's cap-and-trade! Yeah!)

          Running from their party didn't help them. It likely hurt them.

          •  I'll agree that running from their party (0+ / 0-)

            certainly didn't help them.  However, blue dogs got wiped out generally. I don't see any particular vote or non-vote, action or non-action that necessarily separates the ones who won and lost

          •  Oh, I don't know (0+ / 0-)

            that anything would have made any difference.  Mine lost last night to a way right winger with no credibile cojones to represent this district.  He, literally, is another Lynn Westmoreland with the same good hair and a bit more brains, altho re the latter my husband thinks not. Oh, and also, he had tons of outside money, not to mention his family money behind him.  The GOP targeted this very vulnerable seat that was occupied by Saxby before he ran for the Senate.  MY whole state, up and down the ticket, went even further red last night.  

             I am going to fight, starting now.

    •  They had a working theory (0+ / 0-)

      that being corporatists would protect them in their districts. It didn't.

      So if it won't work in their districts, why would it work party-wide?

  •  Well said, sir. nt (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    slinkerwink, bluehen96, TomP, MartyM

    a spook who sits by the door

    by brooklynbadboy on Wed Nov 03, 2010 at 12:52:13 PM PDT

  •  okay everyone drink some V8 (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    TomP, happymisanthropy, Jerry056

    get rid of your hangover's and GOTV for 2012!

    we can do it!

  •  If you think this year was bad, just wait (10+ / 0-)

    Right wing Citizens United groups are going to come crawling out of the woodwork to attack Obama in 2012, and they won't wait for the Repugs to have a nominee before they start in.

    "I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

    by Jeff Y on Wed Nov 03, 2010 at 12:52:21 PM PDT

  •  Now is the time (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    TomP, Jeff Y

    ... for acting on the "bring it on" rhetoric.  Not September 2012.

    "Unseen, in the background, Fate was quietly slipping the lead into the boxing glove." P.G. Wodehouse

    by gsbadj on Wed Nov 03, 2010 at 12:52:29 PM PDT

  •  Obama is getting the wrong message (5+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    ssgbryan, chuckvw, bablhous, Cofcos, rainmanjr

    I just wish he would stop trying to please the Republicans and Wall Street and start taking care of Main Street. I have no confidence in this president anymore.  His policies have only helped Wall Street and the banks and hurt the middleclass.  It looks like we're still going to continue the downward spiral and both Republicans and Democrats will suffer.  The declination of our country is not a partisan issue; it is an American issue.  Say hi to third world country status for there is no hope with the current configuration of politicians in Washington to get it right.

    •  Obama is SENDING the wrong message (6+ / 0-)

      I saw his address to the nation this afternoon.  

      As abject surrender speeches go ... this one was particularly meek, mild and ingratiating. If I was "disappointed" before ... I'm truly discouraged and disgusted now.  

      (Yeah, "so what?")

      OK ... we're back to "good ideas from Republicans" and "BiPartisan(tm) cooperation ...Unless " President Spock" has some diabolically clever nth dimensional chess ploy that he will reveal at the correct moment -- (Y'know, like he did during the Health Insurance Care Reform debate.)

      So now what?  "Primary the punito?"  That's probably not happening.  "Hold his feet to the fire?"  Isn't that what we were supposed to be doing the last two years.

      •  So what should he say? (0+ / 0-)

        "I'm going to veto every bill the Repubs send to my desk for the next 2 years and refuse to work with them on any issues, even ones we can agree on?"

        It's just freaking painful reading some of these comment sections.

        It took people what, 1 month into the Obama administration to start saying that he was totally worthless, the same as Bush and that people were sorry they voted for him?

        Now it's been like 8 hours since the loss and you've already assumed the worst for the next 2 years.

        And people wonder how Republicans kick our asses over and over after the ruin the country.

        •  Exaggerate much, PhillyJeff ? (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Cofcos, Sharon Hanson

          Veto EVERY bill?  No, obviously ...

          Totally worthless ?  No ... his foreign policy is considerably less feckless than Bush's.  They love him abroad. He signed off on TARP. His "Bank Reform" was slightly better than nothing at all -- which is better than we can say about his "HRC."  And when he wants to he can orate to friendly crowds almost better than anyone in recent memory -- Reagan not excluded.

          You think MY disgust is based on the past 8 hours ... oh that would be so petty wouldn't it -- if true.  But what if my disgust is based on the past 2 years, and most particularly the godawful management of the "HRC" -- and today's Surrender Speech was just part and parcel of what this Administration has been doing all along:  talking semi-tough in Democrat small venues ... but radiating weakness and ingratiation when the MSM might be reporting in prime time?

          Yeah, an oblique reference to the Veto would not have been out of order.  A mention of the fact that while nearly 60% of voters wanted Republicans more than 40% of voters wanted Democrats ...  A mention of the idea that the White House might be sending a whole HERD of "Ponies" for the Republican House to slaughter in full view of the electoral kiddies.

          It might have been useful for the President to have said ONE LITTLE THING hinting, suggesting, proposing that Republicans WON'T be getting the Peace in Our Time that they may think they'll be having.

          He didn't.

          You, apparently are willing to wait for ever and be satisfied with any lame excuse offered to you ...

          How long should the rest of us ?

        •  They'll shut down the government and impeach him (0+ / 0-)

          I hope our lame duck is working on some continuing resolutions to give Obama a chance to keep the government running.

          Boner's gonna make Reid look good.

  •  Just like a boxer who's been hit hard (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    TomP, MartyM

    you can either go down or throw in the towel or get pissed and go nail the m-fer who hit you.

    Till we make the revolution, I hope your life sucks ass - Street Sweeper Social Club

    by Corneliusmingus on Wed Nov 03, 2010 at 12:52:40 PM PDT

    •  Some boxers have "Heart" -- others don't (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      ssgbryan, damfino

      President Obama TALKS a really great weigh-in ... but in the ring, he has no heart, has no punch, and he can't take one either.

      He "coulda been a contender" but it turned out that he was just a canvass back, a pug, a stepping stone, a no-class palooka

      Have we taken the boxing  metaphor far enough?

      Smart money sez: "there's no fight in THAT dog."

      But hey, we can always hope that the Repugs put up a candidate SO awesomely horrible that even El Grand Punito can take him.

  •  How our leadership responds (13+ / 0-)

    to the cat food commission report next month will tell me everything I need to know.

    www.bushwatch.net - Kicking against the pricks since '98!

    by chuckvw on Wed Nov 03, 2010 at 12:52:55 PM PDT

  •  We should be mucking with the Alaska recount (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    drmah, bluehen96, Betty Pinson

    and driving wider the wedge between GOP and TP.  I explain why and how here.  This should appeal to Markos and others who appreciate hard-fought politics.

  •  Right on, kos! (7+ / 0-)

    I see them gloating today, and all I can think is, "bring it on, motherfuckers". Because 2012 will be here sooner rather than later, and I can't wait.

    It is on like Grey Poupon!  I can't wait to take these assholes down!

    Oba-MA bumaye! Oba-MA bumaye!

    by fou on Wed Nov 03, 2010 at 12:53:13 PM PDT

  •  The first thing that needs to be done is not to (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Lize in San Francisco

    brag about this is what happens when you diss the base. The base also has a lot of soul searching to do themselves

  •  Agree 100%. Bring back Dean (8+ / 0-)

    I wasn't, however, jumping out of my seat with enthusiasm at the President's press conference today.

    I hope I'm wrong but his speech and demeanor suggested he'll be doing the opposite of what you suggest here. Again... I hope I'm wrong and he comes out swinging. He needs to do just that.

    This ain't no party. This ain't no disco. This ain't no foolin' around!

    by Snud on Wed Nov 03, 2010 at 12:54:03 PM PDT

  •  This is what we're up against: (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Vicky, Rosita, Jeff Y, jfromga
    From an Illinois newspaper: Flossmoor resident James Kase said he favored the GOP side of the ticket when he voted early Tuesday afternoon at the Flossmoor Community Church on Hutchinson Road. "I voted for Republican for senator and the governor. I read the Wall Journal and listen to Fox News and they tell me how to vote," Kase said. "I figure for Kirk, I'm ashamed of his service record (but) his opponent is worse. We need a Republican vote in the Senate."

    Democrats--The American-funded politcal party.

    by Grumpy Young Man on Wed Nov 03, 2010 at 12:54:12 PM PDT

  •  In the long-term, the demographic are on (6+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    lirtydies, GN1927, Vicky, TomP, mconvente, Purdue219

    our side. If course, as Keynes noted, in the long term we will all be dead. We need to shore up our support among young voters, Latinos, and other peoples of color. We can't have them sit out 2012.

  •  In a sane world.... (13+ / 0-)

    Howard Dean would have had Rahm's job, and the Public Option would have been fought for, and won. And Stiglitz should have been where Sommers and Geithner are, and TBTF banks, and Wall Street should have taken a well-deserved fall.

    what did buddha say to the hotdog man? make me one with everything

    by steelman on Wed Nov 03, 2010 at 12:54:32 PM PDT

  •  Historians will call it: (7+ / 0-)

    The Great American Tantrum of 2010!

    Got Social Security? Thank a Democrat!

    by Fury on Wed Nov 03, 2010 at 12:54:42 PM PDT

    •  it won't be long in the future (0+ / 0-)

      3 years + is a long time to put off renewable energy & pug's don't much care about it.

      opposition's plans for this country ought to give the public the same kind of adrenaline that a rough shoulder gives an all-night driver. - Chimpy (Kossack)

      by rainmanjr on Wed Nov 03, 2010 at 01:18:21 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Speaking of Kaine... (24+ / 0-)

      When the Democrats picked up 30 or so seats in 2006, James Carville lambasted then-DNC Chair Howard Dean, saying he'd been a total failure in his role and calling for his replacement.

      So I presume Carville is REALLY going to rip Tim Kaine a few hundred new ones, as only he can in his colorful way.

      Right, James?

      James?

      You there?

    "Le ciel est bleu, l'enfer est rouge."

    by Buzzer on Wed Nov 03, 2010 at 12:54:50 PM PDT

  •  Yes it does. (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    lirtydies, citizenx, Predictor
    Good post, Kos.

    Deoliver47, quoting Bernice Johnson Reagon: "If you're in a coalition and you're comfortable, you know it's not a broad enough coalition"

    by TomP on Wed Nov 03, 2010 at 12:54:56 PM PDT

  •  So, 61% want HCR (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Odysseus, slinkerwink

    either expanded or kept the same.

  •  There's a flip side. . . (7+ / 0-)

    maybe the "professional left" should stop bashing it's own candidate.  Disagree?  Fine.  Disappointed?  Fine.  But enthusiasm for the home team is not generated by putting down the team captain Every. Damn. Day.

    An Obama presidency can't make up for over 30 years of conservative rule.

    by Dailyfare on Wed Nov 03, 2010 at 12:55:02 PM PDT

    •  Maybe the team captain ought to be (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      ssgbryan, Cofcos, cybrestrike, Hooscal

      leading by example instead of expecting us to be enthused by his mere presence on our team.

      There is in the nature of things an unchangeable relation between rash counsels and feeble execution. -- Daniel Webster 1812

      by SimplyLeft on Wed Nov 03, 2010 at 01:12:15 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Professional lelf cost us thie election, If they (0+ / 0-)

      don't like Obame they need to start their own leftist tea-party equivalent.

      •  I hope this was snark n/t (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Cofcos
        •  Maybe they ought to stop complaining about (0+ / 0-)

          messaging when 90% of the diaries and comments on this site attack Obama for being a Bush-lite corporate republican hack.

          When at the same time you're putting down all of the accomplishments he's gotten through in the last 2 years as useless corporate sellouts and at the same time complaining that he isn't trumpeting his accomplishments enough, you're not really in a place to whine about how Obama is de-energizing the base.

          Ever notice that the Repubs fight amongst themselves but when it comes down to it come together and direct their fire at Democrats?

          Ever notice every time the Dems get power we turn on our officials as sellouts/not progressive enough/terrible?

          Ever notice they kick our asses every time we get into the majority?

          •  When the president starts to lead (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            bablhous, Cofcos, Hooscal
            get back with me.

            I don't know why he has spent the last 2 years channeling his inner Neiville Chamberlain, but he needs to stop.

            I am not asking for superman.  

            I am asking for leadership.

            Speeches without policy are pointless.

            •  Speeches without policy? (0+ / 0-)

              He's enacted TONS of policy.  

              Headline:  Today, President Obama built a four bedroom house.

              Progressives:  Dammit!  We wanted a five bedroom house, with a den! He's an ass!

              An Obama presidency can't make up for over 30 years of conservative rule.

              by Dailyfare on Wed Nov 03, 2010 at 03:05:19 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

  •  That's the spirit. I'm pumped! Sure, we emerged (0+ / 0-)

    scathed but not out by any means.

    Divide and rule, a sound motto. Unite and lead, a better one. ::Goethe::

    by Jeremy10036 on Wed Nov 03, 2010 at 12:55:13 PM PDT

  •  President Obama got off to a seriously shaky (14+ / 0-)

    2012 start with that abominable press conference.  It shows his Administration is riddled with Blue Dog Broder "thinkers" and do not get what really happened.  The failure of presidential leadership needs to be the genesis of rethinking his presidency and the rationale of why he did this in the first place.

    OFA in its current permutation ain't going to cut it unless the base feels we matter and the White House will go to the wall for the things the electorate believes matter: sane energy/environmental policies & green jobs, economic relief for Main Street, repeal DADT, advocacy for the DREAM Act ...  

    Every time history repeats itself, the price goes up...East Wing Rules

    by Pithy Cherub on Wed Nov 03, 2010 at 12:55:31 PM PDT

  •  Also, not so much schizophrenia (6+ / 0-)

    35 percent believed Wall Street was to blame for the terrible economy, yet they still voted for the GOP. (56-42, to be exact).

    he Dems tied themselves to Wall Street even more tightly than the Republicans did in the public eyes.

    With both parties smooching Wall Street, neither party gains much advantage there.

    Wow, Independents put down the centrist Blue Dogs, and somehow liberals are to blame?

    by Ezekial 23 20 on Wed Nov 03, 2010 at 12:55:37 PM PDT

  •  We need results, not explanations (5+ / 0-)

    Its time to put into play a program to reduce unemployment in the US very, very quickly.  

    Put lots of people back to work very quickly and we will win.  Nothing else will work.

  •  Stirring email from Jim Dean of DFA! (10+ / 0-)
    I want to reprint an entire email I got from Jim Dean (brother of Howard), whom I met a few times. He's a great fellow like his brother. What his message says, is very telling, on point regarding young voters, and a warning against hippie-punching and running from progressive principles:


    [delver] -

    Thank you.

    You and DFA members nationwide did incredible work trying to save Democrats from themselves.

    You deserve the credit for never giving up and fighting all the way to the end.

    Together, we raised over one million dollars for progressives candidates, made over one million phone calls in 16 tight races, and delivered over 250,000 volunteer hours on the ground.

    While it was a tough night, we had a few important victories too. DFA 2010 Progressive Hero Barbara Boxer won. Public Option Heroes Michael Bennet, Kristen Gillibrand, Jared Polis, and Chellie Pingree all won without running away from their votes for Healthcare. Co-Chair of the Congressional Progressive Caucus Raul Grijalva was in the fight of his life and won. In fact 94% of the rest of the Progressive Caucus also won (compared to only 47% of the Blue Dogs).

    Florida amendments legally requiring fair redistricting of congressional districts -- instead of Republican-controlled gerrymandering -- won. The anti-environmental Proposition 23 in California, which could have rolled back some of the most important clean air laws in the country, was defeated. And bold progressive Peter Shumlin was elected the first Democratic Governor of Vermont since Howard Dean left office in 2002.

    The fact is progressive heroes who lost last night like Russ Feingold and Alan Grayson became collateral damage in a toxic election environment created by weak leadership and corporate Democrats who refused to stand up and fight for real change. Progressives like Annie Kuster, Mary Jo Kilroy, and Tom Perriello ran some of the strongest grassroots campaigns in history, but were drowned out by unregulated corporate front groups that spent hundreds of millions to scare and lie to voters.

    The biggest lesson from last night is actually pretty simple. For Democrats to win in the future, they need to fight for the people they represent and stop cutting deals to water down reform with the same corporate interests who will turn around and spend unlimited amounts of money to defeat Democrats year after year.

    It was a tough election and it's a tough fight ahead of us, but we have no regrets for fighting every day to move America forward -- and we never will.

    Thank you, [delver], for everything you do.

    -Jim

    Jim Dean, Chair
    Democracy for America

    •  This point is meaningless... (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      doc2, mconvente, Mr MadAsHell, moonpal

      In fact 94% of the rest of the Progressive Caucus also won (compared to only 47% of the Blue Dogs)

      Progressive Caucus members obviously come from much bluer districts.  Blue Dogs from purple districts.  

      I'd like to compare progressive caucus margin of victories this year compared to previous years.  That might tell us something.  

      Stop this roller-coaster ride, I'm getting off. So Long, and Thanks for All the Fish.

      by Jonze on Wed Nov 03, 2010 at 12:58:15 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Not meaningless (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        cybrestrike

        When your team wins, it's meaningful.

        CLEAR Act would sell carbon shares to fuel producers and would return 75 percent of the resulting revenue in $1,100 checks to every American.

        by mrobinson on Wed Nov 03, 2010 at 01:04:06 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Blue dogs are blue dogs because (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Rosita

        they represent purple districts. Those districts were most liable to vote GOP. So blue dogs lost. The meme that if only those blue dogs had acted more like liberals they'd have been better off is based on ignorance of basic American politics. Really, it's rather surprising that anyone who spends time on politic blogs could possibly be so inane. Which leads me to believe that most who are parroting this don't actually believe it, but have hopes of getting others to. It's just dumb.

        I'm in the I-fucking-love-this-guy wing of the Democratic Party!

        by doc2 on Wed Nov 03, 2010 at 01:05:21 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  why are the districts purple? (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          ssgbryan

          You always have about 1/4 partisan on either side, but somewhere in that middle half of most every district are the people who want to hear good ideas pitched to them in ways they understand. The Blue Dogs could have done that--they could have fought harder for the common-sense moral correctness that was in HCR and stood up and said, "Yeah, I voted for it, because I can't sleep at night knowing there are kids in my district suffering because their parents can't afford health coverage, or there are grandparents who can't afford heart medication. I did what's right, because I believe the people in my district are worth spending my tax dollars on--DON'T YOU?"

          At the very least, that would have won them some support from the undecideds who at least respect firm convictions.

          Instead, they hemmed and hawed and listened to polls and triangulated with the media who was trying to drive up the drama and make the news instead of reporting it. And they got slapped for being wishy-washy.

          I 'ship Obama/America. OTP

          by athenap on Wed Nov 03, 2010 at 01:15:32 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  3/4 of a Republican is a flip flop (0+ / 0-)
          better to have the real deal instead of some half-ass who pleases no one.

          Kissing Republican ass gave Obama a Boehner.

          by The Dead Man on Wed Nov 03, 2010 at 01:17:37 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

    •  Super Good Point on the Florida Amendments... (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      lirtydies, msdrown, cybrestrike

      Florida amendments legally requiring fair redistricting of congressional districts -- instead of Republican-controlled gerrymandering -- won.

      Cutting out districts that look like a snake will be over.

      "We are a Plutocracy, we ought to face it. We need, desperately, to find new ways to hear independent voices & points of view" Ramsey Clark, US AG

      by Mr SeeMore on Wed Nov 03, 2010 at 01:13:42 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Howard Dean? Really? Ha! (5+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Aquarius40, GN1927, kefauver, Inland, moonpal

    The same person who celebrates Blue Dogs losing wants a 50 State strategy that got Blue Dogs and Conservadems elected in the first place?

    Makes sense to me.  

    Stop this roller-coaster ride, I'm getting off. So Long, and Thanks for All the Fish.

    by Jonze on Wed Nov 03, 2010 at 12:55:53 PM PDT

  •  i'm optimistic about 2012. Except for the money. (6+ / 0-)

    That has me really fucking nervous. The protections that were in place in 2008 are not there in 2012.

    this is still bigger than any candidate. this is generational.

    by danthrax on Wed Nov 03, 2010 at 12:55:54 PM PDT

  •  Preach it brother kos! (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    lirtydies, noweasels, TomP, Purdue219
  •  Dean has become a lobbyist... (0+ / 0-)

    his integrity has just evaporated.

    Though he hasn't registered as a lobbyist, he will still smell like one, walk like one, and most of all, get paid like one.  It's hard to pass up those 7 figure salaries.

    Corporate PACs, not just bribery but a lifestyle!

    by rubine on Wed Nov 03, 2010 at 12:56:14 PM PDT

  •  The GOP looks strong now, (8+ / 0-)

    but is actually pretty weak. People voted for them out of ignorance; since the economy hasn't improved dramatically, they blame whoever is in power. But: - The GOP politicians who were just elected are a weak bunch. They were able to win on momentum, and many of the new House members will have ethics issues to deal with. - The Tea Party has created a culture of fear within the GOP. No sitting Republican rep or senator would dare cast a single vote that could be interpreted as moderate, as every single incumbent knows that they can be knocked off in their next primary. - Thus, the GOP will govern to the right of the electorate, which is not going to help them in the general. - There will be even more Tea Partiers on the ballot next time, strengthening the Dems hand. - Since every GOP incumbent is at risk, a lot more prominent Democrats will challenge them; after all, there is now a decent chance that the 18-year incumbent will lose in his primary to a random Tea Partier. - The economy won't be great, but it will be better, and thus the Dems won't have such a weight around their necks. - Barack Obama will be on the ballot. At the same time, it is highly unlikely that the GOP will have someone who is not embarrassing on their presidential ticket.

    We have most everything in our favor for 2012. It is likely going to be very satisfying for us when we clobber them.

    I'm in the I-fucking-love-this-guy wing of the Democratic Party!

    by doc2 on Wed Nov 03, 2010 at 12:56:19 PM PDT

    •  I'm sitting back to wait for fight to break out (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Steve In DC

      between Tea-Party antigonists and the mainstream Republicans.  I don't believe for one minute that all is sweetness and light between the branches of the Repugs as they would have us believe.

      •  There won't be a fight. (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        neroden, drmah

        Because everyone in the GOP has reason to fear the TP. They will outwardly play nice. Don't get me wrong, establishment Republicans hate the Tea Baggers, but they are all on notice that dissent will result in one thing - some lame-ass TPer beating you in your next primary.

        I'm in the I-fucking-love-this-guy wing of the Democratic Party!

        by doc2 on Wed Nov 03, 2010 at 01:29:59 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  Bring Back Howard Dean! (5+ / 0-)

    I also hope to hear from Jerry Brown. I don't want him to run for president but he ran a great campaign.

  •  your enthusiasm is relentless, KOS (4+ / 0-)

    And it's great to read about starting the battle NOW.  We'll need every minute.

    "Kossacks are held to a higher standard. Like Hebrew National hot dogs." - blueaardvark

    by louisev on Wed Nov 03, 2010 at 12:56:37 PM PDT

    •  Plouffe and Obama and team grassroots (5+ / 0-)

      accomplished something major in 2008.  

      The grassroots however were quickly dumped and major momentum was lost in Alaska and elsewhere.

      We evolve slowly, and it is not at the moment hopeful.

      Look what it took to beat McCain/Palin!  Look at the fine progressives we have lost.  (Blue Dogs too.)

      The power is with the monied establishment that keeps perpetuating itself and the inequities in our nation.

      We did it together in 2008.  Made a real change.  We hoped.  We expected too much?  The realities of the office and the Congress with which he had to work and the crises on his plate are the realities of any Presidency?

      Okay forward, onward. HO!  

  •  I am going to phonebank TODAY (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    rainmanjr, akmk

    WOO HOO.

    •  I do love your sarcasm. (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Krush

      I'm done with the whole scene.  Our nation was lost long ago and we can't stay in power.  POTUS is now irrelevant, too.  We lost big time and that time has run out for our planet's hope.

      opposition's plans for this country ought to give the public the same kind of adrenaline that a rough shoulder gives an all-night driver. - Chimpy (Kossack)

      by rainmanjr on Wed Nov 03, 2010 at 01:26:21 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  In Alaska, the Republicans repeat over and (5+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    The Nose, Rosita, neroden, drmah, dww44

    over, government is spending too much and the deficit is a huge problem.

    But faced with two fairly bloated spending propositions that will add $1 billion debt, Alaskans voted YES.

    We send Coats--a Wall Street and oil lobbyist to Congress to represent the American people who are angry at Wall Street and special interests??

    Sigh.  Gloomy day.  I can't bear to listen to MSM of any kind.

  •  You won't have to worry about Obama running. . . (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    ImagineOhio, drmah, rainmanjr

    in 2012.  The GOP, lead by Darrell Issa, may take care of that for all you Obama haters by impeaching the President.

    An Obama presidency can't make up for over 30 years of conservative rule.

    by Dailyfare on Wed Nov 03, 2010 at 12:57:05 PM PDT

  •  Disagree on Boner vs. DeMint on debt ceiling (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    dww44, filby

    We've seen that economic catastrophe is a feature of the GOP, not a bug. They can all vote no, quickly and easily.

    Unless of course the big corporate backers stand to lose something. Then they'll all fall into line the other way.

    The Tea Party is a cheap rebranding illusion. Check out the empty suit new senators from the rust belt. It's the same GOP as it ever was.

  •  It's been about 18 hours (18+ / 0-)

    since Republicans won control of the House and yet they still haven't balanced the budget and I still don't have a job. What the hell's taking so long??

  •  Oh, we're already behind: (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    lirtydies, Krush, TomP, missississy

    Rick "Goodhair" Perry's already started.  His book tour begins next week, and he's pushing a states-rights agenda.  AND he has money, FOUR MORE YEARS in office, FOUR MORE seats to be re-districted (from you, you, and YOU!) for Texas, and he has cronies, influence, power, and hje is corrupt and wants more.  Have I left anything out?

    Here'a a short list of his crimes and mis-govening:

    http://www.burntorangereport.com/...

    Read all about his book here (all 220 pages):

    http://www.google.com/...

    Torture is Wrong! We live near W so you don't have to. Send love.

    by tom 47 on Wed Nov 03, 2010 at 12:57:22 PM PDT

  •  I agree with Marshall Ganz at LA Times (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    slinkerwink, Noodles

    We need more and better Democrats and Campaign Finance Reform.

    by Duke S on Wed Nov 03, 2010 at 12:57:39 PM PDT

  •  I LIKE THIS KOS!!! (7+ / 0-)

    The fighter returns!  2012!  OBAMA/BIDEN!!

    Except I'm not concerned about the "Professional Left"'s hurt feelings.  I'm concerned about beating the Repubs and keeping them away from the ultimate reins of power.

    The Obama/Biden Inaugural -- the exact moment when the world went from gray to colorful.

    by alkatt on Wed Nov 03, 2010 at 12:57:44 PM PDT

    •  and no messy divisive primary battle (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      alkatt

      to suck up dollars and time.  we can use all that energy to get our candidates nominated across the country.

      "Kossacks are held to a higher standard. Like Hebrew National hot dogs." - blueaardvark

      by louisev on Wed Nov 03, 2010 at 01:00:55 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I'm afraid we don't have an option there. (0+ / 0-)

        Obama can stand with us and time he likes, and if he chooses not to, we'll likely need to run an opponent in the primary just to stay viable.  :-P

        -5.63, -8.10. Learn about Duverger's Law.

        by neroden on Wed Nov 03, 2010 at 08:20:07 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  Thank, Kos (7+ / 0-)

    That's what we need.  A really, pissed-off, bring-it-on-m-fe'ers rallying cry.  

    And yeah, it was very stoopid of the whole Obama Whitehouse to keep dissing the progressive left.  They shoulda joined us to go for the jugular while we had all the power and the momentum.  I remember how my heart sank the first time in 2009 when I head the President talking about "bipartisanship".  How clueless do ya hafta be, Mr. President, to believe that these right wingnuts would ever "cooperate" with your administration?

    So...here we are.  You're right, Kos.  Let's not just get mad.  Let's get politically even with the Party of No.

  •  Absolutely (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Aquarius40, lirtydies, RadicalRoadRat

    The election shook a lot of rotten fruit off out tree. I suggest that the "professional left" and those pumped about swinging this party left begin with the lame-duck session. TANF and UI are still underfunded, DREAM Act languishes before an encroaching Tea Party majority and Pell Grants are a great way to bring youth and students back to the ballot box and home to the Democrats in '12.

  •  Obama made several trips to Ohio. It didn't help. (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Aquarius40, ImagineOhio, Stroszek, abraxas

    The outcome turned out to be worse than I thought possible.  We are back to being red.
    The only thing we didn't do is replace an established Rep (D) in the House, with a car salesman (R).
    This does not bode well for 2012 as far as Ohio goes. Even Sherrod Brown may be taken down in that election.
    This is a colossal set back, that can't be made more palatable.

    •  We're pretty much screwed in OH (5+ / 0-)

      Like you said--four years of gains, wiped out in one swoop. Ted Strickland's hard-fought reforms, very delicate to begin with, were starting to bear fruit--gone. 3C rail, which was the seed of a transportation that could have done great things for the state--gone.

      This is really bad.

      •  I know, I have been communicating (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        neroden

        with Stewart in OH about the 3C rail plan.  What a GREAT project to create jobs and be a model for the entire country.  I hope Kasich or whatever the hell his name is doesn't kill it.

        I feel sorry for Ohio.  My mom lives there.  She agreed that HCR needed to be done to "make a start" and then voted for Chabot.  shake of head

      •  Yep. and I hope my teabag neighbors suffer for it (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        neroden

        Fox News bought it's old pundit buddy a state, cheap.

        And career politician Rob Portman can continue to sell off the rest of it.

        But keep in mind...it's 1995 in Ohio. Remember Mark Twain. Here in Ohio, it's the Gingrich era. We'll be hearing about the Clenis in no time flat.

        I 'ship Obama/America. OTP

        by athenap on Wed Nov 03, 2010 at 02:06:37 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  Oh damn, you even lost Secretary of State. (0+ / 0-)

      You are screwed, you won't have elections in 2012.  Again.

      -5.63, -8.10. Learn about Duverger's Law.

      by neroden on Wed Nov 03, 2010 at 08:22:37 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  "Beat back the Boner house!" (0+ / 0-)

    LOL. Something doesn't sound right there...

    America was not built on fear. America was built on courage, on imagination and an unbeatable determination to do the job at hand. - Harry S. Truman

    by faster democrat kill kill on Wed Nov 03, 2010 at 12:58:53 PM PDT

  •  We need to concentrate on these senate races... (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    jethropalerobber, lirtydies, drmah

    For 2012, Scott Brown, Joe Lieberman, and when are the Maine Twins up?

  •  Yes. This. (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    slinkerwink, chelle in mo

    And more of it.
    Fast. Loud. Fired up.

  •  you forgot (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    slinkerwink, oysterface, The Nose

    women. 20 points down with women since 2008.

    I'm too disgusted right now to think of a sig.

    by Ga6thDem on Wed Nov 03, 2010 at 12:59:11 PM PDT

  •  How do we get rid of Kaine? (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    red moon dog, Aquarius40, leema
    What do we do? Short of promising not to pledge any money, I don't see them paying attention to us.
  •  if you have to EXPLAIN your policies, you're f'ed (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    slinkerwink, ssgbryan

    The explaining part happens before you enact the policies. After that, the policy should be self-explanatory.

  •  A bus-replacement measure failed (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    lirtydies, Mr MadAsHell, moonpal

    here in Portland.

    Here's a comment from oregonlive (online Oregonian):

    I also voted againt it because I had a very rude trimet officer write me up a ticket after their machine broke.

    That thumping sound you hear is my head repeatedly hitting a brick wall...

    Democratic Party strategy: Do whatever it takes to keep GOP from saying mean things about Dems. GOP strategy: Say mean things about Dems regardless.

    by VictorLaszlo on Wed Nov 03, 2010 at 12:59:53 PM PDT

  •  Can we get a Howard Dean-led Shadow DNC? (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    slinkerwink, chelle in mo, La Gitane

    The guy is SO smart and effective.

    Is there a way to make this happen? I would donate to that in a heartbeat.

    "Think. It ain't illegal yet." - George Clinton | http://ideaddicted.blogspot.com

    by jbeach on Wed Nov 03, 2010 at 01:00:01 PM PDT

  •  Instead of focuses on just the big races... (6+ / 0-)

    ...color the map blue one pixel at a time by concentrating on your precinct, which is how we did it.  Dallas County: A Blue Pixel in Texas

    I'm a damned fine precinct chair in the Democratic part of a horribly drawn congressional district.

    by CoolOnion on Wed Nov 03, 2010 at 01:00:09 PM PDT

  •  conservadems crushed and destroyed (4+ / 0-)

    Democrats who voted against HCR fared much worse than those who voted for it.

    Of 29 nays, 17 lost yesterday. That's even worse than the blue dogs as a whole.

    On the other hand, some progressives also lost.

    The lesson I take is this is not about ideology but about messaging.

    In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice; but in practice, there always is a difference. - Yogi Berra

    by blue aardvark on Wed Nov 03, 2010 at 01:00:20 PM PDT

  •  We need to pass as many things as possible in the (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    slinkerwink, drmah, rainmanjr, La Gitane

    lame duck session and dare the Republicans to try to overturn everything come January.  

    Pass tax cuts for the middle-class and raise taxes on the rich.

    Pass a public option and make the reforms kick in sooner instead of in 2014.

    Pass better financial reform.

    Pass a bigger stimulus that brings our infrastructure to be able to compete with Europe and China.

    •  I like your spunk but, ha ha, you're dreaming. (0+ / 0-)

      None of those things are going to happen.

      opposition's plans for this country ought to give the public the same kind of adrenaline that a rough shoulder gives an all-night driver. - Chimpy (Kossack)

      by rainmanjr on Wed Nov 03, 2010 at 01:37:24 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  I think Palin is going to run for president now (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    drmah, SteelerGrrl

    I figured that she would just flirt with it in order to keep the right wing grifter money flowing into her pockets before last night, but now it's different. Now the Repub establishment can directly blame her for their loss of the senate.

    And if there's one thing I think all of us have learned about Teh Sarah - no one disses her and gets away with it.

    "I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

    by Jeff Y on Wed Nov 03, 2010 at 01:00:30 PM PDT

  •  You already gave the three reasons (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    slinkerwink, ImagineOhio

    we will only win  when the Republicans screw up:

    1. Republicans are more unpopular than Democrats, yet they still voted GOP;
    1. 35 percent believed Wall Street was to blame for the terrible economy, yet they still voted for the GOP. (56-42, to be exact).
    1. 31 percent of voters wanted the new health care law expanded, yet 14 percent of them voted Republican. 30% want the law kept he same as it is now, and 30% of them voted Republican.

    Democrats can't simplify what they want and believe in into a bumper sticker.  They vote against themselves.   Too many shades of gray and in the end voting is black and white.

    Which doesn't mean that we don't need a more consistent national leadership with a coherent policy message, courage to sell the message, and the guts to make hard votes.  But its not enough.  We need to have Republicans screw up to save us from our nature.

  •  Democrats cannot govern under Obama with (0+ / 0-)

    the Dems controlling the Senate.  Obama needs a Republican congress so he can have bipartisanship using his rhetorical skills to take credit for any crumb that falls our way.  Grayson would have served Dems better as president.

    There is in the nature of things an unchangeable relation between rash counsels and feeble execution. -- Daniel Webster 1812

    by SimplyLeft on Wed Nov 03, 2010 at 01:01:30 PM PDT

    •  Grayson got his ass handed to him. (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      SimplyLeft

      I love the Grayson, too, but the public does not.  It's not Progressive, though we should now put up all Progressive bills, but Right of center.  Grayson would now be just as marginalized as Obama.

      opposition's plans for this country ought to give the public the same kind of adrenaline that a rough shoulder gives an all-night driver. - Chimpy (Kossack)

      by rainmanjr on Wed Nov 03, 2010 at 01:41:42 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Someone please notice... (9+ / 0-)

    That the justification we were given for timidity over the last 2 years was that the Dems couldn't act boldly and get re-elected.

    Can't really close Gitmo.

    Can't eliminate DADT.

    Can't investigate prior administration.

    Can't reconsider the internal security apparatus developed by GWB.

    All these would be too unpopular with voters and a distraction.  How did that work out?

    I'm a flipping centrist, and I'm grumpy that these things didn't get addressed.

    "Wouldn't want to be bold, we would get filibustered"

    Right...

  •  Amen (3+ / 0-)

    OFA made contact with me some weeks ago, then I never heard from them until last Sunday evening to help with GOTV.  As far as I am concerned, they were useless.

  •  Can't agree. (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Noodles, SimplyLeft, rainmanjr, Hooscal

    The 2012 election began on inauguration day in 2009.  And, so far, the ticket hasn't been inspiring the voters.  That's why yesterday was a disaster.

    My life is an open book, and I want a rewrite!

    by trumpeter on Wed Nov 03, 2010 at 01:02:30 PM PDT

  •  Ummm... (4+ / 0-)

    Did you see some other Democratic Party the last 6 months than the one I saw?  I can't see Schumer and Feinstein and Gillibrand and Obama suddenly turning into fighters.  

    I think the effort from the progressives is going to remain what it's been: pushing string.  I don't know whether the GOP will get the WH in 2012, but I do know that all our fighting, donating, organizing and voting won't amount to much as long as the economy remains on life support.  And while the President continues to think that his governance will slowly yield an improving economy, it almost certainly won't be enough and will still be experienced as too weak on jobs, etc.  Plus there's a good chance that we are in fact headed once more into the drink, so to speak.

    I'm all for the fight, but I don't expect Dean would be allowed anywhere near the DNC.  We're working to build an opposition party, but we are still decades away, even with our very best efforts...

    •  Well, Schumer is my Senator and I can (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      neroden

      tell you that when he wants to fight, it's a sight to see.

      Of course, when he decides to roll over like he did on voting for Alito....

      •  Schumer is my Senator too (0+ / 0-)

        And I can't recall a single fight he's led other than better disclosure of cel phone fees (how's that going?) and small-bore incremental issues like slightly less bad health care for a few hundred 9/11 victims.

        He reads to me like a Wall St. stooge and insider-extraordinnaire.  

    •  Its too late and I'm done. (0+ / 0-)

      I'm not calling another person for the cause.  Fuck this nation.  Right now and, I believe, for the long future I feel nothing but despised for it.

      opposition's plans for this country ought to give the public the same kind of adrenaline that a rough shoulder gives an all-night driver. - Chimpy (Kossack)

      by rainmanjr on Wed Nov 03, 2010 at 01:43:52 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Badger Boehner relentlessly (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    slinkerwink, lirtydies, The Nose, drmah

    "Where are the jobs, John?" Repeat ad nauseum.

    I'm a damned fine precinct chair in the Democratic part of a horribly drawn congressional district.

    by CoolOnion on Wed Nov 03, 2010 at 01:02:50 PM PDT

  •  As Kos says, (6+ / 0-)

    "Democrats believe that government can make people's lives better, so embrace and fight for that belief."

    This must become our mantra, over and over.

    The most violent element in society is ignorance.

    by Mr MadAsHell on Wed Nov 03, 2010 at 01:02:58 PM PDT

  •  Comparing '08 to '10 doesn't work (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Lize in San Francisco, Juliann

    One is a mid-term and one is a presidential election.  (Turnout has always been lower, older, and whiter in midterm elections).  Need to compare '06 numbers to '10 numbers for it to be meaningful.

  •  I heard Roland Martin say this a.m. that latinos (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    lirtydies, GN1927, FrigginBoobs

    in Nevada saved Reid's bacon by giving him 90% of their vote.  How's that fit sideways into any base loss?  You know, that which went from 9% of the overall vote to 8%?  How does that 1% loss even fare historically?

    Martin also made an interesting point about courting the urban-radio audience at the 11th hour.  The President doesn't fit that description; he's been there.  But Alex Sink's office called Martin this week [maybe even yesterday] about being on with him on the Tom Joyner Morning Show.

    Float like a butterfly, sting like a bee. Your hands can't hit what your eyes can't see.

    by conlakappa on Wed Nov 03, 2010 at 01:03:26 PM PDT

  •  The President must be with us or we can't fight (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    slinkerwink

    effectively.  The President must fight against a number of things but especially against benefit cuts to Social Security and Medicare.  He is making a good start if he does not cave on tax cuts for the rich or health insurance.  He needs to clean house of Rupublicans, Blue Dogs and DLCers, they will just sabotage everything.  He should fight for equal rights and a good border bill even if he loses.  He should set traps for Republicans that will tear them apart.  Winning is not everything, having the fight in public is the secret to eventual success.  No more of this horse trading behind closed doors, if you have to trade, do it in public so everyone can be on the same page and give input before it is too late.  Any more money for the econmomy should be for the middle class and poor, stick it to the rich because they have plenty and are not going to be part of the solution.  The President must get out in front, in public, and fight or Republicans will be able to tag him with everything that goes wrong that they caused.

  •  Doesn't NYT realize that Obsms is the President. (0+ / 0-)

    Calling him "Mr" is so disrespectful.

    •  Its a step up from "Dude". (0+ / 0-)

      I love JS but he screwed the pooch in his biggest interview.  I'm sure he kicks himself, too.

      opposition's plans for this country ought to give the public the same kind of adrenaline that a rough shoulder gives an all-night driver. - Chimpy (Kossack)

      by rainmanjr on Wed Nov 03, 2010 at 01:46:44 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  I'm still "auto contributing" to Act Blue - (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    slinkerwink, leema, Fish in Illinois

    and will increase my "donation" as soon as I get my house paid off early next year.  If President Obama can create jobs against the active resistance of the R-controlled Congress we will take back the House and increase our standing in the Senate.  If not...

  •  Here Here (5+ / 0-)

    Thank You Kos! You said exactly what needed to be said. We should bring back Howard Dean! He did great for us in 08 and he went out there and exposed the (R) for exactly what they were.

    Hopefully this will wake up the Dems and get us more involved.  2012, here we come!

  •  I hope the White House reads this diary. It's (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    slinkerwink, lirtydies, xanthippe2

    exactly the message they need to hear and hear quickly before they decide to capitulate even more to the Republicans.  I feel like putting it on a sandwich board and parading around the White House with a megaphone.  Thanks, Kos!

  •  What can WE do over the next 2 years (6+ / 0-)

    to help put real Democrats and peoplecrats back into office?   We need to address it as a two front war: money & message.

    The money...I still donate to Move On with small monthly dribbles...and will send money to contenders next time around again.   Read another diary where someone is going to donate monthly to the DNC.   We gotta do something over time to compensate for the Transnational $$ influx and reflux.

    The message ...how do we contend with the Corporate media and FOX and Limbaugh et al?    We have some really good folks like Rachel and Thom Hartmann out there...but we need to have a cohesive sound bite message machine that will ensure a united message everyday that will reach the evergrowing Sound Bite Population.   Yes, do make Dean head of the DNC and let him issue our sound bite of the day to all elected Dems and the media for repitition.   Well, something like that...I'm sure you guys have ideas too.  Message is actually more important than money but both are needed under the current set up.

    "I think it is much more interesting to live not knowing than to have answers that might be wrong." Richard Feynman

    by leema on Wed Nov 03, 2010 at 01:04:52 PM PDT

  •  Per Tom Perriello. . . (5+ / 0-)

    "We shouldn't have expected nirvana after our win in 2008 and we shouldn't expect armageddon now."

    An Obama presidency can't make up for over 30 years of conservative rule.

    by Dailyfare on Wed Nov 03, 2010 at 01:05:13 PM PDT

  •  Obama (7+ / 0-)

    is already preaching bipartisanship. Nothing is going to change other than the GOP is going to get 90% of what they want instead of 50%.

    Obama is practitioner of high broderism. Nothing is going to change that.

    I'm too disgusted right now to think of a sig.

    by Ga6thDem on Wed Nov 03, 2010 at 01:06:24 PM PDT

  •  Dude thanks. I needed this (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    lirtydies, eco creative

    to peel me off the ceiling.

    I'm still in the "Set the roof on fire and watch the motherfucker burn laughing" mindset right now...but when it wears off tomorrow, I need something better than "fuck it, you can all go die in the street."

    Angry? Yep.
    Demoralized? Nope.
    Amoralized? Kinda leaning that way. I'm done playing fair with the ignorant and schizophrenic low-info voters.

    I 'ship Obama/America. OTP

    by athenap on Wed Nov 03, 2010 at 01:06:31 PM PDT

    •  You're young, aint you? (0+ / 0-)

      One of the 11% that showed up for us?  I thought the youth vote was a God send for our Party but it turns out they just thought 2008 was a fun party.  They won't be impressed over the next 2 years, either.

      opposition's plans for this country ought to give the public the same kind of adrenaline that a rough shoulder gives an all-night driver. - Chimpy (Kossack)

      by rainmanjr on Wed Nov 03, 2010 at 01:49:36 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Actually no, I just write young (0+ / 0-)

        I'm almost 38, so squarely in that "soccer mom/GenXer" camp.

        The youth vote is a godsend--if they can be shown that they can make a difference. Young people--the so-recently-kids of the world--are very used to nobody listening to them. The rest of us do need to engage them and show them how their vote makes a difference. I know when I was that age, I wasn't quite mature enough to really get it, but when Clinton played the sax, it was a defining moment for politics for me--for the first time, I saw somebody who wasn't just another fat old white guy making decisions that ignored me.

        There are still a hell of a lot of fat old white guys who make decisions that ignore me (I'm a mom now, and we're invisible unless someone wants to sell us toilet paper and fat cream), but...I dunno...I guess I'm more obnoxious in trying to be heard. ;)

        We could stand to remember that the youth vote takes the long view--sure, they didn't bother this election, but there'll be a lot more of 'em down the line. What we have to bring home to them is that every time they sit one out, they give us older folks one more chance to fuck it up too big to fix. I'm not above incentives. ;)

        I 'ship Obama/America. OTP

        by athenap on Thu Nov 04, 2010 at 04:07:03 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  38 is still young, by my definition. (0+ / 0-)

          We've had enough chances to fuck it up and now its too big to fix.  The youth sat it out and lost their chance for life because Climate Change is going to kill them.  So sad.

          opposition's plans for this country ought to give the public the same kind of adrenaline that a rough shoulder gives an all-night driver. - Chimpy (Kossack)

          by rainmanjr on Thu Nov 04, 2010 at 09:55:13 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

  •  2012, Senate? House? (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    ferg, lirtydies, La Gitane

    I have bad news (dont shoot the messenger).
    There are only 10 Republicans up in 2012, and 6 of them are in the south or Mormon states (7 counting Ensign).  Lugar, Brown and Snowe are the remaining 3, which makes Brown (+ Liebermann) the only realistic pickup unless its a Democratic wave.  On the postiive side, most Democrats are also fairly safe in a non-wave election, though there are enough to make Senate control iffy.

    I think the House is where Democrats should really be targeting for 2012.

  •  Obama's going to compromise Social Security (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    slinkerwink, neroden, rainmanjr

    in the name of bipartisanship. That will leave him incredibly weak in 2012 but don't expect Axelrod to be smart enough to figure that out. If you're serious about 2012 then start looking for a primary challenge for the President because you're going to need a candidate that can win.

    Unless Obama changes, and that doesn't mean the move right he's about to make, he's toast.

    If you didn't like the news today, go out and make some of your own.

    by jgnyc on Wed Nov 03, 2010 at 01:06:46 PM PDT

    •  Hasn't he learned? (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      neroden, jgnyc

      The GOP uses the same tactics every time, getting silly DLC Dems to agree to compromise with them, then leaving them to take all the blame for an unpopular policy.

      Don't they ever learn? If you conspire w/ the GOP to screw over the public, they will always leave you twisting in the wind.  They're the Eddie Haskell's of the political universe.

    •  Yeah, I agree. (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      neroden

      He might already be toast.  He should try but I think our savior may be irrelevant already.  A day late and many dollars short.

      opposition's plans for this country ought to give the public the same kind of adrenaline that a rough shoulder gives an all-night driver. - Chimpy (Kossack)

      by rainmanjr on Wed Nov 03, 2010 at 01:51:05 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  CNN.com business page (7+ / 0-)

    has a headline that reads:

    Stocks end higher in the wake of a big Republican win and a major stimulus plan from the Fed. Dow finishes 27 points higher.

    The DOW rose a fantastic 27 points.  Wow.  Plus, it was in negative territory until the Fed announced the QE plan, which sucks anyway.  Tell me how the Republican victory had any positive impact on the market.  What a ridiculous headline.

  •  From your keyboard to the President's eyes! nt (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    lirtydies
  •  Glad to see that Kos (8+ / 0-)

    is finally admitting the obvious:

    ''no way that Boehner can thread the needle between governing and maintaining ideological purity. The two are not mutually compatible''

    Hello? This is what Obama and the dems who controlled congress were up against.
    And yet,on here,folks demanded he do the impossible.

    Thankfully,now Boehner will have to try to do the impossible....good luck tan man.

    •  there's a slight difference (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      neroden

      Boehner has to thread the needle between pleasing the base and averting economic disaster.

      The Democratic leadership had to thread the needle between pleasing the base and hindering the economic recovery.

      •  Yeah, the only way to power is thru disaster. (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        neroden

        We all have to fall a bit further before the compassionate, generous, fair and well educated Americans can find it necessary to vote for us again.  Ha Ha.  Aw, Global Warming says our game time is up.

        opposition's plans for this country ought to give the public the same kind of adrenaline that a rough shoulder gives an all-night driver. - Chimpy (Kossack)

        by rainmanjr on Wed Nov 03, 2010 at 01:55:13 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  You go Kos! (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    lirtydies, xanthippe2, Chris Jay

    And thanks from the entire community for pulling the all-nighter to keep an eye on the nail-biters. Hope you are well-rested now and ready to kick some ass. I'm right behind you.

    On the matter of our own civil disturbance (I won't call it a war), there's the matter of Joe Lieberman, who needs to be put through a vegematic in the primaries. Once we dispose of him, let's go after the remaining Republican establishment. The teabaggers have become our unwitting allies, so let's keep them stoked, too.  

    It is better to light one candle than to curse the darkness - Eleanor Roosevelt

    by Fish in Illinois on Wed Nov 03, 2010 at 01:08:41 PM PDT

  •  incompetence to the point of suspicion... (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    slinkerwink, neroden, rainmanjr

    ...is the best way I can sum it up; BO & co didn't win in '08 so much as the GOP lost and Obama & co have been proving that fact over & over ever since.

    Figuring out who their base is sure aint rocket science, yet the Emmanuel gang sure as hell have behaved as if WE are the inscrutable ones.

    What gives?

  •  When only 35% of non college educated folk (5+ / 0-)

    voted for dems we are in big trouble.  If you really want to change things find a way stop Fox from transmitting its signal.

  •  It's the corporate news media (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    lirtydies, GN1927, ImagineOhio, msdrown

    who control the message. Not politicians. Certainly not Democratic politicians. I feel as it our entire political system has turned into the WWE... you know, a world with clearly delineated story lines, with obvious good guys, obvious bad guys. And helpful news narrators to move the storyline along.

    For nearly two years the media storytellers have been laying the ground work for a complete Democratic blowout. There were losses last night indeed, but not nearly to levels predicted. However, today's news and headlines would lead you to believe there had been a complete rout in last night's returns. Which there was not. However, lack of a rout doesn't mean that we won't continue to hear about it, and hear about it, and hear about it. Until eventually, everyone will come to believe that it actually WAS, because that's what everyone is saying.

    Face it, Obama could deliver a speech tomorrow on helping out the SPCA while surrounded by adorable puppies, and the media would run endless analyses about how his choice of puppies was clearly a way of dissing cat owners. We would then have two more weeks of analysis of dog owners vs cat owners, and where fish and bird owners factored into this. Talk radio would then take over and ask their listeners if the SPCA was a communist/nazi plot... and why the president supports them.

    You know why we can't have nice things? Because we keep electing Republicans.

    by maisey on Wed Nov 03, 2010 at 01:08:58 PM PDT

  •  this made me energized (3+ / 0-)

    thanks Kos!

  •  The $64000 question is whether Obama has (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    slinkerwink, neroden, RadicalRoadRat

    the progressive's back (or some form of liberal, whatever you want to call it) or was he a Blue Dog/DLCer all along?  That is a legitimately open question and one he has never really satisfactorily answered.

    What does Obama WANT - not for shaping Washington, because DC is merely a medium for governing not an end in itself - but for the country.  

    - We always knew he wanted health care reform, but did he WANT the Romney-esque vision of it?  

    - We know the stimulus was small relative to the size of the problem (and smaller still because of its composition) but was it the sort of thing HE wanted?  

    - He used his captain's picks in the catfood commission pick-up game to choose mostly (5 of 6) people who were at least receptive to the notion of going after Social Security in the name of fiscal discipline - is that because HE thinks Social Security is on the table?  

    - He has actively defended most of George Bush's foreign policy and war policies - while paying lip service against them in speeches.  Is this because he thinks Bush and Cheney were right after all?  

    - His words and actions have often been in mysterious conflict - and his words on the road vs his words inside the Village have often been in mysterious conflict.  He has lashed out against liberal critics in the press, and gave that bizarre NYT interview that seemed to undercut the campaign push over the last few weeks.

    Since his candidacy started, Obama has succeeded in projecting what his supporters, what WE want from a President.  But what would HE throw himself in front of a speeding locomotive for?  I am not expecting (nor desiring) a monolithic point of view here, not in the least.  But his people have been very coy in keeping a lot of these sorts of things out of the public square and perhaps have created a lot of distance between him and the folks he needs to galvanize.  

    •  Well given that progressives definitely (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      lirtydies

      DON'T have Obama's back, threatens not to vote, and generally attacks him at every turn, what exactly do you expect?

      I remember it was only WEEKS into Obama's presidency that I started seeing posters on this site comparing him to Bush, complaining about how terrible he was going to be, and basically writing off the next 4 years.

      Look through this very diary for post after post of people complaining that Rahm is mean and therefore the base couldn't be bothered to get out and vote.

      So the real question is, do we have Obama's back when he tries to get things done (oh, you know like health care reform which, though not great, has been something presidents have been trying to do for decades and failed), his reward is being called a Bush-lite Republican corporate Wall Street hack and calls to primary him in 2012?

      •  I blame myself, really. (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        The Nose, neroden

        It's my fault we still have a government which believes in kidnapping, torture and drone-assassination. The wars, those are my fault too. And FISA of course, I really screwed up there!

        You can blame me all you like, but the buck.. Where does it stop again?

        To discuss Republican policies that hurt the less affluent and favor those that need no favors is class warfare.

        by Diebold Hacker on Wed Nov 03, 2010 at 02:10:27 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  it's ok to have his back on health care and (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        neroden

        not have his back on the War on Terror (where the Bush comparison is both true and invited).

        When he tries to get things done which need to get done, the support has been there.  The argument on health care centered around his reflexive embrace of Romney's plan more than anything.  But most of the ennui among progressives came from the number of areas (especially in foreign policy and the rule of law) where he was absolutely not progressive at all.  

        The Wall Street hack claim (if there is one) is clearly based on his reliance on Rubinomics to address the economy, and how sensitive he and Geithner were too angering Wall Street (when they'd balk at anything he did).  The financial reform was an achievement, mostly because activism moved it further left than even the White House wanted it.  

        The calls to primary him in 2012 are stupid, since most of them come from Hillary people - and she is only slightly more progressive in her leanings, if at all.  The primary opponent who does not act like he has been invited to play in the GOP's backyard is not on the horizon.

        One does not need to be all in here.  He has disagreeable positions - no reason not to disagree.  But he has tried hard enough to disconnect himself from the notion of a base (hooray bipartisanship) that many of the people who voted for him in 2008, those he inspired, stayed home.

  •  why don't we target Boehner and Cantor? (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    DWKING, lirtydies, GN1927, blue jersey mom

    If they want to go after our leadership, why don't we grow a pair and get good candidates to defeat them?

    Make them campaign instead of getting drunk in DC with the lobbyists.

    Knock off their leadership, that is how you win.  Beat them at the ballot box, like they did to Daschle and just about Harry Reid.

    Republicans===the party of the 1% rich people in America. Or in other words..The Party of NO!

    by jalapeno on Wed Nov 03, 2010 at 01:10:00 PM PDT

  •  There once was a little graph. (5+ / 0-)

    Jobs: Before and After Obama

    I would venture to guess about 1% of voters saw this image.  This was a big flaw in Democratic messaging.  Voters are impatient for an economic recovery.  That's why even some people who think healthcare didn't go far enough voted Republican.  Maybe expectations for fast recovery were unrealistic.  Anyway...

    Thirty-seven percent say that spending to create jobs should be the highest priority for the Congress, which will have a GOP-controlled House and Democratic Senate. A similar number, 39 percent, say the top priority should be reducing the budget deficit. Eighteen percent cite cutting taxes as the highest priority.

    Expiration of tax cuts on richest to contain deficit and pay for more spending to spur job growth is good policy to embrace.  Voters need to know Democrats succeeded in starting the recovery and Republican obstruction slows it down.

  •  Best idea on Cheers & Jeers today: (6+ / 0-)

    a bumper sticker that says, "Speaker Boehner, where's my job?"

    I think, therefore I am. I think.

    by mcmom on Wed Nov 03, 2010 at 01:10:35 PM PDT

  •  I'm black (6+ / 0-)

    the young, blacks, Latinos -- don't read blogs, or watch Keith Olbermann, or read Firedoglake.

    I remember very well a liberal blogger calling the FLOTUS not classy and several other things, and you know what that made me do?  It made me not want to call my cousins in Arkansas and advocate for Bill Halter.  As you are looking at the mea culpas and what people should do maybe you should look in the mirror.

    Change happens because of you...Barack Obama

    by Adept2u on Wed Nov 03, 2010 at 01:11:11 PM PDT

    •  Amen to that! (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      kj in missouri, edwardssl

      Hannity's America is just South of Sanity.

      by DWKING on Wed Nov 03, 2010 at 01:18:29 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  I'm black as well (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      lirtydies, kj in missouri, edwardssl

      And discussions and comments  about how 'weak' he is and the rest of the borderline dog whistles. - and some blatant  ones-- that I'm reading makes me ponder.  I'll just it at that.

      Superman's black in the building - Public Enemy

      by blackinthebuilding on Wed Nov 03, 2010 at 01:29:23 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I'm white, and those dog-whistles (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        lirtydies, kj in missouri

        make me more than ponder.

        The good thing, those comments will stay here for all eternity.  We'll always know who they belong to.

        This is not a book (Atlas Shrugged) to be tossed aside lightly. It should be thrown, with great force. - Dorothy Parker

        by edwardssl on Wed Nov 03, 2010 at 01:37:09 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Yep! Good point! N/t (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          lirtydies, kj in missouri, edwardssl

          Superman's black in the building - Public Enemy

          by blackinthebuilding on Wed Nov 03, 2010 at 01:45:02 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  I really think it's less race and more (3+ / 0-)

            the standard circular firing squad we see every time Dems manage to get in power.

            I really think a lot of people here have some idea of a magical utopian candidate who gets perfect progressive legislation done on every topic we want immediately by waving a magic wand.

            It really doesn't matter what he does, because there are so many posters on here who would make such a better president and do everything perfectly and effectively. Honestly.

        •  Weak is as weak does. (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          The Nose

          For Christ's sake, I thought Obama was an incredibly strong President.  Right up until he decided to continue all the unconstitutional Bush war on terror policies.  But then I thought "OK, he's strong but unethical, I can deal with that."  Right up until he started explaining how he absolutely had to have Republican support to pass anything and would give the Republicans whatever concessions they needed, and Arlen Specter was the key man, or maybe Olympia Snowe.  But then I thought, "OK, this is just clever politicking, to prove to the public that these people are untrustworthy and must be ignored -- give them a fair shot".  

          Right up until Obama's economic team gave the banks almost everything they wanted and there were no arrests, while the stimulus package was smaller than it should have been.  But then I thought "OK, honest mistakes."  Right up until he doubled down on the same people... and started going on about bipartisanship AGAIN.....

          This is just stupid, weak behavior.  To be blunt it's what I expected from Clinton and avoiding it is why I voted for Obama.

          This is really nothing to do with race.

          -5.63, -8.10. Learn about Duverger's Law.

          by neroden on Wed Nov 03, 2010 at 08:32:38 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  When you're African-American (0+ / 0-)

            or even married to an African-American as I am, you see things a little clearer.  Denial isn't an option.  It literally can get you killed.

            This is not a book (Atlas Shrugged) to be tossed aside lightly. It should be thrown, with great force. - Dorothy Parker

            by edwardssl on Thu Nov 04, 2010 at 06:47:17 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

    •  And I'm Latino (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      neroden

      what's your point? And sure, there are plenty of young people on Daily Kos. But demographically, these groups are underrepresented in the netroots. It is what it is.

      And yeah, when the First Lady publicly snubs the Democratic Lt Gov of the state she's in because the party establishment is rallying around a loser like Lincoln, it's simply not classy. But that's irrelevant to the broader point above.

      •  Actually it is relevant (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        kj in missouri

        I have felt far more bashed by things that have come from the netroots than any thing the President has ever said, and I think it's interesting that you don't seem to detect that you count on a segment of the population above, know that it is not present here, but seem to think you can speak to what does and does not motivate them or constitute neglect.

        You say the President neglected/bashed the base yet I have never been more insulted than when reading the Daily Kos I find rec listed diaries comparing the President and the AG to Jim Crow or questioning his base manhood. Themes that were very popular around here.  So who is it that is doing the bashing of the base?  Not that you have any control over what rec lists here, but it speaks to an attitude where an elite will not listen to the actual constituents something I think all politicians were punished for last night.  

        I have invited Black friends on numerous occasions to participate on this site, and to be frank after their lurker stage I was asked why i do.  

        You cost Bill Halter support and whatever you think of Blanche Lincoln she voted for Health Care reform as well as a slew of other votes that are lost for 6 years.  A vigorous primary is a beautiful thing, but afterwards its time to suck it up and tell lies on Republicans.  Have you made it public you are donating to the Democrats again?

        Thanks for answering me I'm actually going to keep this reply forever.  Almost 4 years here first Kos reply.

        Change happens because of you...Barack Obama

        by Adept2u on Wed Nov 03, 2010 at 03:20:46 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  If our values and ideas are more than our myth (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    slinkerwink, ravenwind, ImagineOhio

    then we have a clear goal.  Reread George Lakoff and get back to reframing the issues.  Even here on this blogsite  people take this far too lightly and it is the explanation for why the people  vote republican in spite of their poll answers.

    People are not the rational, conscious reasoners our myths and strategies paint them up to be.  They are fearful.  They see no one to trust.

    The conditions we seek to deal with- economy, jobs, infrastructure, climate, etc will have gotten worse.  We have answers and could have demonstrated that had the leadership not failed.

    We need new leaders who can reframe and do the demonstrating and teaching.  One definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting the outcome to change.

    An idea is not responsible for who happens to be carrying it at the moment. It stands or falls on its own merits.

    by don mikulecky on Wed Nov 03, 2010 at 01:11:14 PM PDT

  •  Dean for DNC (5+ / 0-)

    So how do we get Dean back? And is there some way of getting rid of David Axelrod and Robert Gibbs?

  •  Markos is back! (4+ / 0-)

    You are very good at writing it down.

    Now what I want you to do is pass it around.
    Again and again.

    Because we all know you have to keep repeating it.

    Its like hammering to get the nail in.

    Please........

  •  And where is the base's responsibility in all (3+ / 0-)

    this? Did Bush have to reverse Roe v. Wade to get Conservative Christians off their asses to vote for him? Yet Obama is expected to give the base everything they want and exactly how they want it and immediately upon taking office otherwise he will be torn to shreds and left out their to hang alone. The "base" was hardly distinguishable from the Right throughout the last two years. I hardly blame Obama for being frustrated. He had an uphill battle (an ideologically split party is hardly a majority for any President) and the Left---his supposed base---did nothing but yell from the sidelines at him, instead of at those obstructing his path. They even sat on their hands and let in Scott Brown to derail him. The base turned on Obama by maintaining some very unreal expectations given the tools he had to work with.

    Hannity's America is just South of Sanity.

    by DWKING on Wed Nov 03, 2010 at 01:11:40 PM PDT

  •  Sorry, link failed (0+ / 0-)

    That's exit polls, as reported by the Washington Post

  •  excellent summary /nt (0+ / 0-)

    Better than gold for functional impotence.

    by hhex65 on Wed Nov 03, 2010 at 01:12:57 PM PDT

  •  We are in serious Senate trouble in 2012 (3+ / 0-)

    If we don't hold the White House, we will have no checks, as the Senate will likely go the way of the House yesterday.

    Absent the teabaggers taking out Maine (unlikely after DE and NV), the only other seat where we reasonably have a shot is Brown in Mass, and I dont see us picking off Scott Brown this early.

    In contrast, we have to defend...

    1. Nelson in Nebraska
    1. Nelson in Florida
    1. McCaskill in Missouri
    1. Webb (if he doesnt retire) in VA
    1. Tester in Montana
    1. Conrad in ND

    All fairly strong red states.

    Then the newly minted Reds like....

    1. Brown in Ohio
    1. Kohl in Wisconsin
    1. Levin in Michigan

    10.Casey in Pennsylvania

    Then a blue....

    1. Menendez in NJ

    And have to hope Chris Christie isnt on the R's national ticket in 2012.  

    All while the repubs defend sitting Sens in Wyoming, Ariz, and Tenn--to name the few--strong red states.

    This is looking hopeless for 2012, but that doesn't mean we shouldnt fight. It just means the hope I felt would last for decades less than two years ago, is basically gone.

    And squandered on what?

    1. Healthcare with no public option
    1. Gitmo still open
    1. Still have DADT
    1. Wars still ongoing
    1. Gibbs hating on us daily

    And Republicans now have the appropriations control to STRIP HC of funding.

    Trainwreck comes to mind.

    •  Don't worry about Christie. The fat boy will (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      neroden

      implode sooner or later.  He has the makings of a bully, not a statesman, and unless he wants to be the fattest President since Taft, he better start pulling a Huckabee if he wants to achieve national office.

      And it feels like I'm livin'in the wasteland of the free ~ Iris DeMent, 1996

      by MrJersey on Wed Nov 03, 2010 at 01:37:12 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Or you could list his accomplishments (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        ravenwind
        1. Health care bill that, while not perfect, is something Dems have been trying to get for decades
        1. Wall street reform which, while not perfect, helps end some of the bad practices on Wall street.
        1. you know, um, SAVED US FROM THE GREAT DEPRESSION 2
        1. Pulled most troops out of Iraq (But I'm sure President McCain would have done that, since Obama=McCain right?)
        1. Student loan reform
        1. Tax cuts for the middle class

        But hey, Gibbs is a meanie head so lets not vote for Dems and let Repubs take over the congress. That'll show him!

        Oh I forgot 7) If health care sucks so bad, why do you care if they defund it? I mean it's just a giveaway to corporations etc etc right?

        Oh wait, you have no idea what you want but it's easier to attack Obama for every perceived slight and every non-absolutely perfect thing he does.

        •  CLUELESS... (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          neroden

          ...but cute.

          Healthcare and WSR that doesnt have what we wanted that cost us 60+ seats in the House alone.

          Yeah, that made sense.

          Especially since it costs us the majority. If we were going to squander our majorities, perhaps we should have gotten the PO. But who am I to talk sense.

          Now I cant argue with your McCain troop question. I guess that if the guy biffing your daughter pulls out MOST of his sperm she will be fine. (Jeesh!)

          But you did great in PA last night, huh Philly?

          Newly minted Guv, Senator and both state houses? Oh, and 4--or was it 5 US Reps?

          Thanks God for that Wall St reform.

        •  Uh, MAJOR ERROR THERE (0+ / 0-)

          On #3. Great Depression 2 is currently in progress.

          Minor point on #4: transferring those troops to Afghanistan, while it is what Obama promised, is just stupid waste of life.

          Minor point on #2: Obama actually tried to weaken the Wall Street reform relative to what passed.  Another minor point: it is not sufficient to prevent even the 2008 crisis.

          Minor point on #1: It's Mitt Romney's plan, give the man credit, if a Republican had proposed it they'd have passed it in an eyeblink.  It's an awful plan which leaves a lot of people without health care.  While shovelling money to health insurance companies.  And it doesn't take effect until 2014.  But I admit, it does have a few good points (standardization of medical records, for instance) although even those could easily be screwed up.

          -5.63, -8.10. Learn about Duverger's Law.

          by neroden on Wed Nov 03, 2010 at 08:36:44 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

    •  Kohl in Wisconsin (0+ / 0-)

      is a Democrat.

      Kohl's Department Stores Democrat.

      "Statistics are people with the tears washed away." Sociologist Ruth Sidel

      by Vicky on Wed Nov 03, 2010 at 04:49:37 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Okay, I figured out what you meant (0+ / 0-)

        But it's a mistake to classify Wisconsin as a blue state. It is deep purple. And has voted Red frequently and often.

        "Statistics are people with the tears washed away." Sociologist Ruth Sidel

        by Vicky on Wed Nov 03, 2010 at 04:52:29 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  Does Obama even want to deal with fucking retards? (0+ / 0-)

    Kissing Republican ass gave Obama a Boehner.

    by The Dead Man on Wed Nov 03, 2010 at 01:13:59 PM PDT

  •   "the young, blacks, Latinos -- don't read blogs, (5+ / 0-)
    or watch Keith Olbermann, or read Firedoglake."

    Wow, what a statement. The President is not the only out of touch, liberal bloggers have a long way to go too.

  •  Is DK4 going to be a Progressive site? (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Betty Pinson

    Stop this roller-coaster ride, I'm getting off. So Long, and Thanks for All the Fish.

    by Jonze on Wed Nov 03, 2010 at 01:14:27 PM PDT

    •  Yep, it is. (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Betty Pinson

      just the same one it is now :-)

      I work with B2B PAC, and all views and opinions in this account are my own.

      by slinkerwink on Wed Nov 03, 2010 at 01:20:05 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Interesting... (0+ / 0-)

        What is the purpose of this site?

        (Condensed from this diary written by kos in late 2004)

           This is a Democratic blog, a partisan blog. One that recognizes that Democrats run from left to right on the ideological spectrum, and yet we're all still in this fight together. We happily embrace centrists like NDN's Simon Rosenberg and Howard Dean, conservatives like Martin Frost and Brad Carson, and liberals like John Kerry and Barack Obama. Liberal? Yeah, we're around here and we're proud. But it's not a liberal blog. It's a Democratic blog with one goal in mind: electoral victory. And since we haven't gotten any of that from the current crew, we're one more thing: a reform blog. The battle for the party is not an ideological battle. It's one between establishment and anti-establishment factions. And as I've said a million times, the status quo is untenable.

        The site has grown in the years since that diary. In a comment made in kos's town hall diary in early 2010, he noted:

           

        Daily Kos will be what Daily Kos is, and that oftentimes evolves. I know everyone wants their clearly defined rules, but nothing is that simple.

           This site is CERTAINLY NOT for all Democrats. Joe Lieberman learned that. Blanche Lincoln is about to learn it.

           This site is about more and better Democrats, not necessarily in that order.

        So now it's officially a progressive blog? This should maybe be updated - http://www.dkosopedia.com/...

        Stop this roller-coaster ride, I'm getting off. So Long, and Thanks for All the Fish.

        by Jonze on Wed Nov 03, 2010 at 01:32:04 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  no (0+ / 0-)

      it's going to be a concern troll site, apparently

  •  Great post, kos! (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    defluxion10, Betty Pinson

    I work with B2B PAC, and all views and opinions in this account are my own.

    by slinkerwink on Wed Nov 03, 2010 at 01:14:53 PM PDT

  •  Yes, I must say this is spot on (2+ / 0-)

    Might have missed a thing or two here, or maybe put it a little differently, but I agree that we need to NOT keep up with the Democratic circular firing squad, ditch Kaine, support the POTUS in shaping his narrative back toward the struggling U.S. populace, stricken by economic despair of the most sordid kind, be aware of the fact that while Democrats are seeing the most visible damage, there is lurking damage in the GOP too, and if anything, I perceive their Party to be MORE fractured than the Democratic Party. Although it's time to return our attention to visible Democratic base issues, period. The reasons I vote Democratic even though I'm not a Democrat: good government, for people, not corporations, with social justice, respect and equal tolerance for all.

    Those are the basis of the Democratic Party Platform that draw folks in.

    They should stick close by it.

    And yeah, Dean would be great as Chair. But really, anyone other than Kaine would probably suffice.

    Also, this vote was "schizophrenic." It was mainly due to the economy, as everyone knew it would be. When one out of three people you know is out of a job, you start doing desperate things. I believe many people weren't sure what to do. I could see this at a very local level with my County Supervisor race, where the Progressive frontrunner was always anticipated to be the winner, and yet the Blue Dog who opposed her pulled a big upset, since he showed some palpable "pro-jobs" stuff. And his signs were bigger. Although she had more money and was an incumbent mayor, very popular. Many Democratic friends here voted for him out of despair. It was the wrong choice. In it, we gained some nightmarish things, in fact, like a horrible, gross polluting asphalt plant which she opposed and he didn't. This is now coming down to lawsuits and such.

    This is the kind of macro-micro level stuff that I presume played out with Independents all over the Country.

    "Human salvation lies in the hands of the creatively maladjusted." -- MLK Jr.

    by mahakali overdrive on Wed Nov 03, 2010 at 01:15:04 PM PDT

  •  Don't blame the young voters... (3+ / 0-)

    Didn't a new IPad or something like that come out yesterday?

    The heat came by and busted me for smilin' on a cloudy day.

    by mojave mike on Wed Nov 03, 2010 at 01:15:13 PM PDT

    •  Third time I'll mention that my ENTIRE class (8+ / 0-)

      My ENTIRE freshman college class was unaware of it being voting day -- when I made a joke about it.

      I offered to let them out to go vote, but no one was registered (many had just turned 18), or were registered still to their previous address.

      I asked them if they knew about the Propositions, as my eyes began to sort of squinch up with increasing interest. None of them could name a single one. They were marginally aware of the big Gubernatorial race, but beyond that, nothing.

      Now I cast no judgement on these fine young folks, because I know they're smart and attentive; I grade their work, which primarily involves analytical thinking. So I know they're not out to lunch. But the IDEA of voting isn't being instilled in them. Unsure why.

      "Human salvation lies in the hands of the creatively maladjusted." -- MLK Jr.

      by mahakali overdrive on Wed Nov 03, 2010 at 01:21:44 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Oh, my (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        neroden, mahakali overdrive

        Come to think of it, I didn't see a lot of young voters at the polls in our area yesterday.  

        •  There was a depressed youth turnout (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          neroden, Betty Pinson

          We need to focus 2012 GOTV there. Truly.

          "Human salvation lies in the hands of the creatively maladjusted." -- MLK Jr.

          by mahakali overdrive on Wed Nov 03, 2010 at 01:38:26 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  And give them jobs (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            The Nose, neroden

            There's high unemployment for their age group.  Real high. We need to give them more than hope, we need to give them results.

            •  That's very true (3+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              The Nose, neroden, Betty Pinson
              80% for youth here where I'm at (or rather, new college graduates). Huge coverage on graduates moving back in with parents. They desperately need jobs, indeed. Actually, it's obvious that many students now are from a new demographic that didn't always traditionally go to college, but are trying to weather the economy, or get out with better options.

              So yes. They need results. The economy is a serious factor here. My students are economically nervous in a really palpable way. We've been talking about it in my Department, about how motivated they are to get A's, study hard, compete, compared with previous students. This is the hardest-working group, supposedly, in 20 years, and this is usually attributed to economic anxieties.

              I mean, I've sat with students in hours and said, "Look, why would you slack on this? You can go flip burgers if you'd prefer... but wouldn't you rather just revise that paper?" This is the argument they hear LOUD and CLEAR. And you better believe I give it to them straight, in economic terms, all of it. Yeah, of course they should get an education. But these ones are. They're putting their "all" into school.

              I disagree with whomever said they were flaky too. They have day planners to keep them very on track so they don't screw up anything, and use them well. It's our culture that's flaky about voting, IMHO. It doesn't explain well enough that it's a civic duty, or whatever one wants to call it.

              "Human salvation lies in the hands of the creatively maladjusted." -- MLK Jr.

              by mahakali overdrive on Wed Nov 03, 2010 at 02:12:38 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  Well... teach 'em. (0+ / 0-)

                Forget about being off-topic, bring up the topic before the registration deadline and get them to either register or (if they're registered at home) get absentee ballots.

                -5.63, -8.10. Learn about Duverger's Law.

                by neroden on Wed Nov 03, 2010 at 08:41:42 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

      •  I bet they knew who was leading on "Dancing with (2+ / 0-)

        the Stars" though.  They have been distracted by the bread and circus environment of our infotainment society and are just not tuned into the fact that voting, and not voting have consequences.  Or maybe they are right, they saw young people vote for change two years ago and really have not seen much change happen, so why vote?  

        And it feels like I'm livin'in the wasteland of the free ~ Iris DeMent, 1996

        by MrJersey on Wed Nov 03, 2010 at 01:32:59 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  They weren't jaded (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          lirtydies

          None had ever voted before and whatever it is in society that tells you, hey, go out there and vote, it wasn't there.

          It needs to be there.

          These were freshmen. They were 18-19 years old. Many just didn't keep up with political issues. That's what I got from it. Although they do discuss political issues in class (obviously, I cannot say what class it is, but it covers a fairly broad territory of topics). They have political ideas. Mainly, in fact, they're a very Left-leaning group, at least socially. Sometimes surprisingly so.

          This is not a matter of being jaded or even distracted. It's a matter of being uninformed. Next year, I'm going to make sure they register to vote on the first day of school. But I am one person. And other teachers whom I speak with report similar things.

          The thing is, I think, a lack of idea about "civic duty." I think a lot would love to cast a ballot, actually, if they realized how important it was, if someone told them it was empowering.

          "Human salvation lies in the hands of the creatively maladjusted." -- MLK Jr.

          by mahakali overdrive on Wed Nov 03, 2010 at 01:43:52 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Just to explain further (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            The Nose

            MANY of my students will self-identify as Republicans. Because mommy and daddy were. But we keep Journals for this class. And they tackle all manner of topics, socio-political topics. And what comes out there is that they are SOCIALLY very liberal. All of them. Down the line, check the boxes off social liberals. Even the ones who state they aren't pro-taxation, who make pull yourselves up by the bootstraps arguments, also recognize things that former generations were less apt to: that gay marriage is fine, that Muslims should not be feared, that people are equal, that women should have the right to abortion, etc...

            From the most "Republican" students. Then many are flatly liberal.

            We will want to work on their votes, moving forward.

            "Human salvation lies in the hands of the creatively maladjusted." -- MLK Jr.

            by mahakali overdrive on Wed Nov 03, 2010 at 01:47:59 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          •  Maybe if there was a draft? (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            GrumpyOldGeek

            Many of the twenty-somethings I know, my step-daughter included, are too busy posting drunken photos of themselves on Facebook to notice what's going on around them.

            The heat came by and busted me for smilin' on a cloudy day.

            by mojave mike on Wed Nov 03, 2010 at 02:27:47 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Is she in college? (0+ / 0-)

              There may be a different situation for kids from economically poor backgrounds going to public universities in states where unemployment is hitting one in three people in many areas. Sure, they post some drunken Facebook pictures. But they're a little more serious, in my view, than kids even four or five years ago when the economy was brighter.

              These ones really WILL wind up flipping burgers if they don't get straight A's. A lot have grad school aspirations, even as first-in-their-family-to-go-to-college students. Damn straight that I'm going to do what I can to make sure they don't screw this up.

              But the voting thing, woosh!

              "Human salvation lies in the hands of the creatively maladjusted." -- MLK Jr.

              by mahakali overdrive on Wed Nov 03, 2010 at 02:39:38 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  She's a straight-A student (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                mahakali overdrive

                Other than that, I'm not sure what she's serious about other than continuously texting her friends.  But she's a good kind-hearted kid.

                The heat came by and busted me for smilin' on a cloudy day.

                by mojave mike on Wed Nov 03, 2010 at 03:12:58 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  If she's getting straight A's (0+ / 0-)

                  then she's doing just fine :)

                  I promise. Give her those drunken moments. She will have to join the job force in a few years, or have babies, one or another, and she won't be able to party like when we're young!

                  You must be very proud of her.

                  Even if you don't quite know why. And maybe she doesn't have it all figured out yet. But you better believe the gal's doing something right if she's keeping her grades up like that! Bless your lucky stars there. She'll figure the rest out in due time ;)

                  "Human salvation lies in the hands of the creatively maladjusted." -- MLK Jr.

                  by mahakali overdrive on Wed Nov 03, 2010 at 05:32:44 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

            •  R's want another war. Good for the economy (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              mojave mike

              according to some right wing neocons.

              So whenever ANY person talks about Iran, remind them that R's have repeatedly suggested that bombing Iran is their ONLY suggested solution. Inform them that there aren't enough young military volunteers to support such an effort. This is fact.

              So the draft will be an absolute requirement the day after R's declare war on Iran (for whatever made-up excuse). The president has the authority to draft people using emergency war powers. Don't let anyone dismiss this out of hand.

              My kids have no concept of a mandatory military draft. None. And my kids are in their 40's. Yeah, they had to register but the exersize is meaningless for them.

              Scare the hell out of 18-year olds. Remind them that the draft is not negotiable. Military service or prison. And it's random. They'll vote.

              Besides, it's my generation that got the voting age reduced to 18 based entirely on the disparity of the draft age and the voting age.

              "All people are born alike - except Republicans and Democrats" - Groucho Marx

              by GrumpyOldGeek on Wed Nov 03, 2010 at 02:52:33 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  The Iraqis will be our comrades in arms (0+ / 0-)

                Don Rumsfeld was no dummy, just a little crazy..

                The heat came by and busted me for smilin' on a cloudy day.

                by mojave mike on Wed Nov 03, 2010 at 03:14:00 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  uh, more like a lot crazy and a dummy (2+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  The Nose, mojave mike

                  Rumsfeld told us that Iraq WMD's were confirmed, we are in immediate danger of atomic annihilation, Saddam was responsible for the 9/11 attacks, we didn't need very many troops, the invasion would be over in a few days, it would be paid for by Iraq's oil reserves, and that invading Iraq would end up being a profitable venture.

                  Never mind starting a preemptive war, not bothering to actually ask Congress to officially declare war, and exacting revenge on Saddam because Bush said, "besides, he wanted to kill my daddy".

                  It was about the oil from day one. And the revenge.

                  Not a dummy? Only a little crazy? More like a war criminal. Have you noticed that he's vanished from public view? There might be a reason for that.

                  The 90% illiterate Iraqi "comrades" who fight for whoever offers the most cash? Sounds like another one of those rock-solid guaranteed victory plans from Rumsfeld to me.

                  "All people are born alike - except Republicans and Democrats" - Groucho Marx

                  by GrumpyOldGeek on Wed Nov 03, 2010 at 06:05:17 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

        •  Good Comment (0+ / 0-)

          On both counts. However, it's not just young people, it's most people. We Americans each live in our own virtual realities composed of all the things we do between wake-up call and beddie-bye. Occasionally, reality slaps us in the face and we truly wake up. Other times it hits us so hard that we snap. I think the bread and circuses in American life have come about inadvertently as a corporate media does its job -- drawing eyeballs to make money. Same with the internet. Same with everything. It doesn't surprise me if people don't know it's Election Day. It wouldn't surprise me if they didn't know what day of the week it was at all.

          "You have nothing...nothing to threaten me with. Nothing to do with all your strength".

          by The Lone Apple on Wed Nov 03, 2010 at 01:53:58 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

    •  I bet the rethugs planned for that too (0+ / 0-)

      They know how to provide temporary distractions so the youth voters have other things on their minds beside midterm election.

    •  Maybe it did (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      mojave mike

      But seeing that the now elderly have helped over the course of 25 years jacked the shit up of prices for student loans...they probably couldn't afford the new IPad.

      "They proved that if you quit smoking, it will prolong your life. What they haven't proved is that a prolonged life is a good thing." - Bill Hicks

      by Moon Mop on Wed Nov 03, 2010 at 01:58:07 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Putting the coalition together again (5+ / 0-)

    Job number one for us grassroots Dems and our leaders: Put it together again.

    Seeking reform from inside a system structured to resist change, Obama turned aside some of the most well-organized reform coalitions ever assembled — on the environment, workers' rights, immigration and healthcare.

    He ignored the leverage that a radical flank robustly pursuing its goals could give a reform president — as organized labor empowered FDR's New Deal or the civil rights movement empowered LBJ's Voting Rights Act.

    His base was told that aggressive action targeting, for example, Sen. Max Baucus (D-Mont.), chairman of the Senate Finance Committee — where healthcare reform languished for many months — would reflect poorly on the president and make his job harder. Threatened with losing access, and confusing access with power, the coalitions for the most part went along.

    http://www.latimes.com/...

    CLEAR Act would sell carbon shares to fuel producers and would return 75 percent of the resulting revenue in $1,100 checks to every American.

    by mrobinson on Wed Nov 03, 2010 at 01:15:32 PM PDT

  •  "...bring it on, motherfuckers." (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    slinkerwink, neroden, RNmakingsense

    If only there were more like you, man.

  •  I think that President Obama has been crippled (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    neroden, ImagineOhio

    by his fear of screwing up, because of his historic position, hence his legislative timidity. That should be 'over', unless he has decided to not run in 2012, he'd better get more assertive and combative. But realistically he's going to have to fight every day, and not fare very well, just to last till 2012. On a positive note, the orange jerk is going to get eaten alive by the teahadists, and truly bombed by everyone else, it couldn't happen to a viler villian.

    May you live in interesting times--Chinese curse

    by oldcrow on Wed Nov 03, 2010 at 01:16:05 PM PDT

  •  I wish I could rec front page posts. (n/t) (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    slinkerwink, filby

    (-9.62/-6.77) "If you don't lie down in front of the door, you're less likely to get used as a doormat" (Maddow 9-2-09). United we bargain, divided we beg.

    by revelwoodie on Wed Nov 03, 2010 at 01:16:06 PM PDT

  •  Thanks for this (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    slinkerwink, ImagineOhio, aramis

    The decimation of the Blue Dogs means that our own internal war will be quick and easy. It's kind of hard to argue that Dems should move Right, when the Blue Dog caucus went from 54 members to 26 literally overnight. So sure, we'll have to deal with Third Way's corporatist bullshit, but aside from that, we can focus on the important thing -- and that's beating back the Boehner House and the crazed teabaggers that have taken over the GOP.

    I see them gloating today, and all I can think is, "bring it on, motherfuckers". Because 2012 will be here sooner rather than later, and I can't wait.

    I literally tossed and turned all night and really dreamed about verbal paybacks from all these Republicans I am surrounded by.  My congressman was one of those Blue Dogs who lost last nite and I had thought about posting an LTE ahead of time that said perhaps if he had NOT disowned Pelosi, who did give him permission, by the way, and ran left rather than right it might have been better.  However, it's highly likely that nothing would have made any difference last night. Perception was reality, unfortunately. The lies and the smearing were far too effective and Democrats, as a party, did not do enough to counter that, in the MONTHS ahead of the election.  Obama did a good job of campaigning in recent weeks, but it wasn't enough to energize young people or counter the perceptions about his policies.  That fight needed to have been fought all along, and I also feel the never seen Tim Kaine must bear a lot of responsibility for that.  

  •  Very well put (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    slinkerwink

    I had a similar sentiment earlier, but with a lot more swearing and a bit more name-calling.

    Nicely done.

  •  I believe that the Party of No (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    lirtydies, ImagineOhio

    will replay the same playbook in 2012, to win the Senate and President.

    It looks like the House will not pass any legislation to improve the unemployment rate. There is a very good chance that unemployment will remain high past 2012, since many of the jobs lost will not come back.

    We can campaign all we want , but if unemployment is high the voters will take it out on the Senate and the President in 2012

  •  Night of the Living Base-Heads (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Nina, Adept2u, LeftCoastTom, QueenAlli

    First thing's first -- stop bashing the base, or the professional left, or whatever liberal boogeymen pisses them off. Fact is, people who fall in those disaffected categories -- the young, blacks, Latinos -- don't read blogs, or watch Keith Olbermann, or read Firedoglake.

    Kos, there's some sleight of hand here, and I think it's a self-serving sleight of hand at that.  You properly point out that the targets of "bashing" have been new-media and blog viewers.  But then you switch and say that Obama and his people need to stop bashing "the base"; and then you talk about "disaffected categories," which you enumerate as "the young, blacks, Latinos."  

    Has Obama ever bashed "the young, blacks, Latinos"?  That is, apart from the portion of "the young, blacks, Latinos" who are vocal and active in the blogosphere and new-media?  (And, incidentally, didn't you just say those categories didn't much overlap?)  They may be "disaffected," and can point to a number of letdowns and fuck-ups, but have they been bashed?  

    We need to keep these concerns separate:

    1. Who is "disaffected."
    1. Who is "liberal."
    1. Who is "the base."

    Those are all different.  Around here there's a chronic misunderstanding that they're all the same.  Even in your piece itself you're making that mistake in some spots, while being much more precise in others.

    I think it's self-serving because as the creator of one of the biggest blogs around, you have a stake in presenting blogosphere = liberal = base.  Thus Obama should take up causes that please the blogospheric liberal base and hence remedy their disaffection.  Single bullet theory accomplished!  But as an analyst, you know that's not true.  There are overlaps, but they're not all the same.  Continuing that confusion is going to lead to more weird days like today where the blogosphere is practically giddy to feel so miserable and yet at the same time so vindicated.

    •  The netroots (4+ / 0-)

      is a part of the Democratic base. But a small part. Organized labor is bigger, as is demographic groups like Latinos.

      Gays have been downright abused by this administration. You want to see bashing, read some of the Justice Department briefs that have been written in defense of bullshit anti gay laws. Seeing ICE deportations INCREASE under Bush is base bashing, after promising to take immediate action after elected to reform the system. Labor was downright savaged when they decided to join in the Bill Halter challenge to Blanche Lincoln.

      True, those aren't necessarily rhetorical bashing, but they're much worse. And the rhetorical stuff won't come from Obama, but his closest aides -- like Rahm telling liberal groups fighting for a good health care plan that they were "fucking retards" for planning ad campaigns against recalcitrant Dems.

      I'm less concerned with the "professional left" bullshit (as idiotic as it might be), and more concerned that this administration has alienated key group after key group.

      I'm convinced that Bush considered the Christian Coalition types in his party base to be crazy wackos, but it didn't matter. He sucked up to them and at least treated them with respect. At this point, it's hard to find any key constituency interest group feeling the love from this White House. And whether you think it's a bunch of cry babies or not (and believe me, politics is chock full of insufferable egos), it's still part of a president's job to keep them happy.

      That's how machines are built, nurtured, and run. Not by alienating your allies in the hope that it'll make you friends on the Right or get you a pat on the back from David Broder.

      •  Alienating Your Allies (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Kaaha

        First of all, I appreciate that you responded.

        Second of all, don't fall for the John Aravosis stuff about the DOMA briefs.  If you're making a case that states don't always recognize other states' marriages, all of your precedents are going to come from instances of consanguinity and differences in the age of consent.  Those are not the same thing as equating homosexuality to "incest" and "pedophilia," as has entered oral lore ever since.  (If anything, the real gripe should be that by the brief's reasoning, states might as well still have the right to refuse to recognize interracial marriages.)

        More importantly, I still think you're grouping dissimilar things.  You enumerated a list that included "the young, blacks, and Latinos" as disaffected groups, and said that the administration was bashing "the base" and/or "liberals."  Even in this rebuttal you've switched the terms, so now you're talking about LGBT and labor (and also Latinos).  Well, that's not what you said before.

        This isn't just me nitpicking.  If the notorious enthusiasm gap boiled down to underperformance among "the young, blacks, and Latinos," why would gay-bashing or labor-bashing or liberal-bashing, presuming that they have occurred, have anything to do with it?  You're still aggregating as "the base" some groups who didn't turn out as hoped despite not being "bashed" in any way.  Ergo, bashing the base is not a satisfactory explanation for why the election went the way it did, and, consequently, stroking the base might not be a satisfactory prescription for how to save the next election.

        Or, in other words, if you determine that the real reason why the election went badly was, say, young people who voted in 2008 not voting in 2010, there's no reason to think that the way to reclaim young people is to push, say, the public option or mortgage cramdown, both of which matter quite a lot to blogosphere liberals, but probably not terribly much to healthy people who don't own homes.  What do young people want, other than a better job market?  What is it that they think they haven't gotten, other than a better job market?

        Last thing:  in my view, Obama hasn't been at all concerned with making friends on the right or with media-friendly Broder/Brooks centrism.  Instead he has been concerned, justifiably so, with ensuring support from conservative Democrats.  And that's the reason why policy hasn't gone the liberal way.  I don't know what's going to happen with that now that so many of the conservative Democrats have been culled from the herd.  But it's an underrated factor in the analysis of why Obama hasn't been liberal enough to stanch the lamentations.

  •  Nice post, kos. (9+ / 0-)

    Here's the sad/scary part: I really don't see Obama doing any of the things you (and boatloads of others here) suggest.

    The problem is that he is essentially a Blue Dog. He surrounded himself with Blue Dogs and he has produced Blue Dog-like policies.

    And the problem for the Democratic Party is that in the last presidential primary, our essential choice was between a Blue Dog (Obama) and a Blue Dog (Clinton).

    So to your comments that the battle to vanquish the Third Way crowd will be short and sweet, I have to ask, "Whachyou lookin' at, Willis?"

    Unfortunately, Obama's post-mid term governing is likely to look a lot like that of another Dem Blue Dog, Bill Clinton.

    Those years brought us gems like the repeal of Glass-Steagall and the Telecommunications Act of 1996 that allowed a disperse media to be overtaken by a very few powerful giants.

    So while I would love to see Obama take your advice and tell the GOP to go pound it, I fear we are looking at more Clintonian-style DLCsim which was really just a soft extension of Reagan's excesses.

    Even my bot is tired of this shit.

    by Bob Johnson on Wed Nov 03, 2010 at 01:18:16 PM PDT

    •  We have to stop looking for leadership from Obama (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      neroden

      and start looking for it elsewhere in the party--or help create it ourselves--in some upstart progressive members of congress, governors or state AG's. The only way to "Make him do it" is by developing the power to do that, not by exhorting him to wise and get real. He is still deeply beholden to the politics of hope and denial.

      "Those who stand for nothing fall for anything...Mankind are forever destined to be the dupes of bold & cunning imposture" --Alexander Hamilton

      by kovie on Wed Nov 03, 2010 at 01:29:44 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  It's not just him, of course. (4+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        chuckvw, The Nose, neroden, kovie

        It's most of the party apparatus. In many ways, a lot of this goes back to Terry McAuliffe's reign at the DNC during the Clinton years. McAuliffe's goal was to capture some of the deep-pocket corporate money that had long flowed to the GOP. And to do that, Clinton went along with business-friendly, citizen-damaging policies like the repeal of Glass-Steagall and the Telecommunications Act.

        With the Supreme Court opening the floodgates to corporate personhood in election financing, there really is no reason for the deep pocket business interests to give anything to Dems anymore.

        Of course, Obama and the apparatus his people install at the DNC will continue to desperately please the corporate side of the equation in order to garner the necessary funds for a re-election effort. And while that may help Obama (because, after all, he is still president), just as it did Bill Clinton, it will hurt the party in both the short and long term.

        Even my bot is tired of this shit.

        by Bob Johnson on Wed Nov 03, 2010 at 01:39:43 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Obviously, it's a group effort (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          neroden

          But he's the party's leader, and he shares a lot of the blame for continuing this idiotic and crazy self-strangleation triangulation bullshit, which is at best foolish and gutless, and at worst a convenient cover for willful sellout to corporate interests.

          If he's smart (and principled, and tough), he will give Repubs enough rope to shoot themselves with (heh), while reminding the public which party's looking out for their interests, not special interests. But that's a lot to "hope" for.

          "Those who stand for nothing fall for anything...Mankind are forever destined to be the dupes of bold & cunning imposture" --Alexander Hamilton

          by kovie on Wed Nov 03, 2010 at 02:04:59 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

    •  That sounds about right. My point (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      neroden

      as an addendum to yours, is that I am not asking for progressive or DLC government. What I want is political competence. I didn't expect progressive government from Obama because he didn't run on it. What I did expect from him was political management of the first order. The type his campaign was masterful at.

      While he has basically stuck to his philosophy and promises in terms of government, his political management has been atrocious. It is this area where I level my harshest attacks and will continue to until they get their motherfucking shit together.

      a spook who sits by the door

      by brooklynbadboy on Wed Nov 03, 2010 at 02:30:53 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Totally disagree! (0+ / 0-)

    This has been an on-going thing with kos.  Every traditional midterm trend like unenthusiastic liberals and latinos he has been blaming on Obama and it's absolute nonsense.

    It's the economy and it's the midterms.  That's all!  Full stop!

    •  Kos has blamed every midterm on Obama? (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      chuckvw, filby

      Like in '02 & '06? Oookay...

      "Those who stand for nothing fall for anything...Mankind are forever destined to be the dupes of bold & cunning imposture" --Alexander Hamilton

      by kovie on Wed Nov 03, 2010 at 01:26:45 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Then why was the economy blamed on Obama? (0+ / 0-)

      Wasn't it Bush and his friends in Congess who created this mess?  Obama has to be a leader, and not a follower of what Congress wants to do.  For example, he left the health care bill up to fools in the House and Senate and never really explained himself directly to the American people.  He needed to lead and explain HIS vision on health care, and he needed to do it directly to the people.  He should NEVER have left it up to people like Rahm, Baucus, and others.  He has to build a better relatiionship with the American people and tell them that he works for them first, last, and always.

  •  Obama will seek to be MORE bipartisan now (5+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    chuckvw, egarratt, neroden, ImagineOhio, KimD

    and it fucking pisses me off.  He is proof that being  great compromiser can get you very far in this world.... so far that you eventually arrive at a position of leadership where being a great compromiser is one of the worst character traits you can have.

    Yes, Obama managed to convince both moderates and progressives that he was their champion.  And he solidly chose moderates, because he is one, and told progressives to go to hell.  So, he paid them a little lip service just before this election.  Thanks.

    No, Obama's personality is leading him to take this election as  sign he needs more bipartisanship.

    Give me a fucking break.

    "The law of love will work, just as the law of gravitation will work, whether we accept it or not...." -- Mahatma Gandhi

    by waydownsouth on Wed Nov 03, 2010 at 01:20:13 PM PDT

  •  I told you so. (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    neroden

    35 percent believed Wall Street was to blame for the terrible economy, yet they still voted for the GOP. (56-42, to be exact).

    Because we made Wall Street the White House advisors, and the Republicans ran with it.

    It takes thinking to make the connection otherwise, and the electorate, as Obama correctly (and unwisely) noted, doesn't think Especially when they're hurting..

    People who are acting stupid really hate being told they are.

    Obama needs spine, no doubt. People think he won't fight for what's right.

    I hope he will. Or it's Palin/Huckabee 2012.

  •  We were also too cocky after 2008. (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    lirtydies, Rosita

    I was part of the problem. I was a big part. So were Markos and a lot of other lefty types. We got smug. We laughed at the GOP. Made fun of them.

    I wish I had spent more time up front working on activism and less time gloating that we destroyed McCain and the Goopers. I didn't do enough to set the tone for Obama's Presidency, and too many of my cohorts were equally absent up front. So the tone went the wrong way.

    Not that we wouldn't still be facing losses here had we done better, but still.

    Pionta Guinness, le do thoil!

    by surfbird007 on Wed Nov 03, 2010 at 01:22:19 PM PDT

    •  Uh-uh (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      chuckvw, neroden, KimD, Kalex

      The problem wasn't that we trashed the GOP deservedly in '08, but that Obama & Dems failed to go after them politically. You draw exactly the wrong conclusion.

      "Those who stand for nothing fall for anything...Mankind are forever destined to be the dupes of bold & cunning imposture" --Alexander Hamilton

      by kovie on Wed Nov 03, 2010 at 01:25:55 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I think you're (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        neroden

        drawing the wrong conclusions about my comment. I'm not saying we should've gotten all moderate, I'm saying rather than getting all smug and witty, we should've been building a progressive movement to get our pols to do exaclty that - go after the Republicans politically (and also get some stuff done on our side).

        Pionta Guinness, le do thoil!

        by surfbird007 on Wed Nov 03, 2010 at 03:01:28 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  Gloating was well-deserved. (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      The Nose

      "We" (Dems) could have re-made modern politics after 2008. Instead, we got more wall street and DLC advisers and dfh punching.

      They had their boot on the throat of the gop, and let them go.

      To discuss Republican policies that hurt the less affluent and favor those that need no favors is class warfare.

      by Diebold Hacker on Wed Nov 03, 2010 at 02:19:36 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  ALL 95 members who signed the PCCC Net Neutrality (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    The Nose

    pledge lost last night. All 95. Wow.

    •  Huh? (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      edwardssl

      Dems lost 95 seats? Wuh?

      "Those who stand for nothing fall for anything...Mankind are forever destined to be the dupes of bold & cunning imposture" --Alexander Hamilton

      by kovie on Wed Nov 03, 2010 at 01:24:37 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  All 95 *candidates* (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        neroden

        who signed the Net Neutrality pledge lost. I read the original report wrong. Candidates, not members.

        But still, every single one of them lost?

        •  This election was far more about voters (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          The Nose

          cutting off their noses to spite their faces than about policy. And to the extent that it was about policy, it was far more about that policy not being effective enough, not its being too liberal. I guarantee you that very few voters care about or have even heard of net neutrality (although I'm sure that if they understand it, they'd be for it).

          "Those who stand for nothing fall for anything...Mankind are forever destined to be the dupes of bold & cunning imposture" --Alexander Hamilton

          by kovie on Wed Nov 03, 2010 at 01:34:10 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  True (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            The Nose, neroden, kovie

            I am sure that only a very small minority has any real knowledge of Net Neutrality, and it probably played no part in anyones vote. It was still shocking to me when I just read this that all 95 of the House and Senate supporters lost their bids. I'm not sure what that says, but it does say something.

            •  I haven't seen these numbers (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              neroden

              But I'm guessing that a similar number who were against or didn't take this oath also lost their seats or bids. Voters didn't embrace progressivism last night, but neither did they reject it. What they rejected was the status quo, whether or not the people they voted against had anything to do with creating or perpetuating it.

              Last night was a protest vote against the party in power, which is seen as not having done enough to fix the economy (a sentiment that I happen to share and think the evidence bears out), and not for the party out of power or against progressive policy (except in an unthinking and ignorant way). And next time around, they will vote for the party that gets shit done and/or is sincerely and aggressively trying to do so (or, and I hope this isn't the case for Dems, against the party that refuses to do this).

              "Those who stand for nothing fall for anything...Mankind are forever destined to be the dupes of bold & cunning imposture" --Alexander Hamilton

              by kovie on Wed Nov 03, 2010 at 01:58:08 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

      •  That was the other election. (0+ / 0-)

        This is not a book (Atlas Shrugged) to be tossed aside lightly. It should be thrown, with great force. - Dorothy Parker

        by edwardssl on Wed Nov 03, 2010 at 01:31:00 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Nice of you to (0+ / 0-)

        crawl out of your hole just to deliver that message?  

        Now crawl back in.

    •  And a lot more than (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      neroden

      95 candidates who DIDN'T sign the letter also lost.

      We had just eight or so new Democrats elected, just three in truly contested races.

  •  I totally agree with kos on this one. (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    lirtydies, The Nose, MrJersey

    It's exactly what many of us have been thinking all along, especially the first sentence about communicating his vision to the American people.  He should have done this from the beginning instead of going to Republicans for bi-partisanship, or begging  Congress and Max Baucus for health care reform.  You absolutely have to get the people on your side first and foremost, and you do this by talking directly to them.  This could have been done by giving more talks from the Oval Office, explaining everything, and asking for public support to get things done.  You have to lead and not follow the policies of people like Max Baucus who are obviously in the pockets of insurance giants.  I agree on the lousy job done by Tim Kaine and the DNC.  Gee, I'm far from being a politician, but I was begging them to have a plan to keep the young active and voting.
    So what can I say?  Kos said it all, and it should all go directly to the White House.  Kos would have been a much better advisor than Rahm and all the rest.  It's one of the reasons I like this website and take valuable time to come here and put in my $.02.

  •  I'm less than convinced that,,, (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    red moon dog

    Obama having pandered to the base more than he did would have prevented the turnaround of Independents that occurred here. The most it would have done is mitigated the dropoff in youth and minority turnou somewhat.

    But if the change from 2008 was just from 74-13-9 to 78-10-8 ain't that bad when comparing a midterm to a presidential election...not bad at all.

    Independents are fickle...they vote against the party in power of things are bad or even if things are just so-so.

    Politics is still largely local. Blaming the president for every outcome all the way down to state legislatures and beyond seems a little to convenient.

    •  I'm not blaming the President for everything. (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      neroden

      I'm blaming him for not leading on important issues like health care.  Instead, he turned it over to Max Baucus and friends, and that was a huge mistake.  I kept wondering if the President really had a plan or what.  He needs public support to get things done, and he'll never get that support unless he explains his ideas and asks for help, not from insiders but from the people.  Isn't that what FDR did with his fireside chats?  Roosevelt was also a strong leader.  Obama has to create an image of someone in charge and confident, and he has to communicate his plans DIRECTLY TO THE AMERICAN PEOPLE and ask for HELP FROM THEM.  Asking for help is not pandering.  He has to be strong and confident and communicate his plans and ideas.

  •  The OLD white folks voted based on fear not (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Vicky, The Nose

    logic.

  •  Where's the tip jar, it needs to be HRed (0+ / 0-)
    You should be banned for interjecting some reality here and refusing the engage in cheering and denial. Just because you founded this site doesn't give you the right to trash our fantasies!

    /snark

    "Those who stand for nothing fall for anything...Mankind are forever destined to be the dupes of bold & cunning imposture" --Alexander Hamilton

    by kovie on Wed Nov 03, 2010 at 01:23:46 PM PDT

  •  What kos said! N/t (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    714day, Kalex
  •  1. Candidates pissed and moaned about Obama. (0+ / 0-)
    1. Word about that got around.
    1. So his "base" didn't show up at the polls.

    **************************

    WTF else you expect ???????????

    Career criminals + Angry White Males + KKK wannabes + Personality Disorder delusionals + Pro-Life Christians =EQ= The GOPer Base

    by vets74 on Wed Nov 03, 2010 at 01:25:08 PM PDT

  •  Anyone who still supports the Dems is a fool... (0+ / 0-)

    All I know is that I'm never voting Democrat again, I'm going to de-register as a Democrat, and I'll be actively working again the Democrats for the foreseeable future.

    Yeah, Yeah, keep voting Dem, meanwhile they figure out how to keep moving farther and farther to the right. Forget thee clowns....

  •  bring it on mother f*ckers... (0+ / 0-)

    How I love you and Matt Taibbi for your frankness. Obama and his wishy washy Dems could learn a thing or two from either of you.  

    Don't tax the rich, starve the poor.

    by dkmich on Wed Nov 03, 2010 at 01:25:45 PM PDT

  •  We lost because... (0+ / 0-)

    young people were too interested in themselves to get off their collective asses and vote...pity

    Obama - Change I still believe in

    by dvogel001 on Wed Nov 03, 2010 at 01:26:10 PM PDT

      •  Funny... (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        GN1927, The Nose

        as a father of 2 children...I thought it was my job to educate my children of the importance and responsibility of voting...not some blog.../peace

        Obama - Change I still believe in

        by dvogel001 on Wed Nov 03, 2010 at 01:38:09 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Sure, I hear you (0+ / 0-)

          in an ideal world this should be the case.  But this is the US, lol.

        •  Bloc not BLOG (0+ / 0-)

          Meaning while the young people are greatly responsible. It is OUR job to show what the Democrats Nay the Progressive movement has to offer them and their children.

          What did we offer instead? Blue dogs idiots for the most part so what motivated them to get out and vote?

          Two different issues here. They are responsible for their future but this topic is centered on the future of the party. And that future does not reside with blue dogs.

          •  If children... (0+ / 0-)

            were less idealistic and more realistic...they would realize what their best interests are...otherwise I can't be bothered...

            If people are too lazy to vote their own interests...then I have better things to do...and blue dogs/smoo-dogs...excuses are like...well you know the rest...

            And they should re-instate the draft...maybe then they will start voting their own interests....

            Obama - Change I still believe in

            by dvogel001 on Wed Nov 03, 2010 at 01:48:40 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  I vote against my own Interests when voting dem (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              The Nose

              Hell I vote against my own interests when I go Progressive over Blue Dog

              But I believe in the progressive platform and just Plum don't like Vitter. But voting one's interests is not always the right thing. I have compassion for those less fortunate and want them to get some support I want the technology that can bring everyone to the middle class.

              Did the young screw up? Hell yes! However, The more I think about it the more we didn't offer them for their support. Had we had a good jobs bill they might have wanted to keep the trend going.

              •  That is where I divide myself... (0+ / 0-)

                from the progressives...I do believe in personal responsibility...and if you don't show up...don't complain...and the government cannot wave a magic wand to jobs when we started with losing over 700K jobs net per month...

                Obama - Change I still believe in

                by dvogel001 on Wed Nov 03, 2010 at 02:04:58 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  I agree they have no right to complain. (2+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  dvogel001, The Nose

                  Remember tho we are talking about party policy not the big picture.

                  If we talk big picture then ya they really did F up. Not even showing up to vote themselves the right to light up. Now THAT is pathetic.

                  But speaking back on policy the political capital we had before HCR could have easily started a good jobs program for the young. OR some kind of uber tax cut for 100 percent US companies that export or whatever to hire a bunch of new folks. But it has to be specific so its memorable and that is obviously with green jobs.

              •  I vote for my interests when voting Dem. (2+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                dvogel001, The Nose

                I vote against my short-term economic interests.

                I do so because, having studied history, I realize that having violent extremist looters in power (the GOP) generally leads to rich people getting their heads cut off one way or another, and I'd rather not have that happen.

                -5.63, -8.10. Learn about Duverger's Law.

                by neroden on Wed Nov 03, 2010 at 08:46:57 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

  •  Blue Dogs WAY more than decimated. (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Sandy on Signal, chuckvw, Steve In DC

    Lose 10% of them?  More like 50%!

    Glad to see some positivity about 2012 because today's the day to get started and we have a lot of winning campaigns to prepare.

  •  Anytime... (0+ / 0-)
    "Anytime a large number of people gather, the stupid will outnumber the smart". - Ken Kesey

    A Democrat looks at a glass of water and sees it half filled. A Republican looks at it and screams, "WHO THE HELL STOLE MY WATER."

    by Owsley on Wed Nov 03, 2010 at 01:26:47 PM PDT

  •  So tell again why MM supported Charlie Crist? n/t (0+ / 0-)

    I keep trying to be REALLY pissed at Democrats. But every day Republicans prove they're 1000X worse.

    by masswaster on Wed Nov 03, 2010 at 01:26:52 PM PDT

  •  We need Howard Dean (5+ / 0-)

    His leadership is really needed at the DNC.  He should be wooed now and rehired soon.

  •  Obama is very much what you see is what you get (0+ / 0-)

    This is who, and what, he is.  His presidency is the culmination of the exactly like career that preceded it.  Don't look to any of these people for leadership, even the ones--scarce, I know--you like.  Find something you can shift with your own muscle and work on it.  Remember what Roseanne Barr said:  "Nobody gives you power.  You just take it."

  •  Seconded, Dean for DNC chair!!! n/t (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    chelle in mo
  •  The Beltway disconnect is aptly stated: (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    neroden

    "But they are losing their jobs and their homes, and they see Wall Street get all manners of bailouts without any of it trickling down to them. That has killed us."
    Nonetheless, I hear the bipartisan nonsense coming from the Whitehouse again...going to listen to the "call" with the President and hear him dance around this now.

  •  exactly! (0+ / 0-)

    thank you kos!  exactly what i was thinking.

  •  So (0+ / 0-)

    I'm less interested in talking about the ways the administration screwed up, than in what they're going to do about it in preparation of 2012

    Where did I hear something like that before?

    Oh yeah.  I think Pres Obama said he wanted to look forward, not backward.

    Wise.  Very wise.

    This is not a book (Atlas Shrugged) to be tossed aside lightly. It should be thrown, with great force. - Dorothy Parker

    by edwardssl on Wed Nov 03, 2010 at 01:28:22 PM PDT

    •  that was a mistake (0+ / 0-)

      not that he wanted to look forward.  but the people who votedhim in wanted justice for the Bush cronies and he could have delivered some without compromising his forward agenda.  He simply chose not to in his "bi-partisan" waste of time.  More people might have turned out yesterday if they felt that Obama had given them more of what they wanted.  And let's face it, people vote for emotional reasons.  Whether it really served a purpose isn't the point so much.  What is the point is that the Bushies were criminals and some justice would have been very satisfying to those who happily said goodbye.

      •  Yes him and Ms idiot "Impeachment is off... (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        seamus

        The table" Really threw away a bunch of the steam with their willingness to let some of the true criminals in the Bush Admin get away scot free. While Clinton got Impeached for getting his thing attended to.

        But that was his freebie every president gets a freebie if it isnt Murder or eating a puppy on live TV. But then he proceeded on alienating his base with bush like policy and then the HCR which ruined his relationship with the progressive base completely. Then if that wasn't enough you have idiots in his admin calling progressives the "Professional Left"

        2 years of spitting on progressives usually is not good for reelection. However, Hey lets come to the table folks. Obama still seems like he has political fight left. I say perhaps he ought to get a 2nd term but I want the pandering to blue dogs and idiots to stop. Progressive candidates get my support for 2012 and that includes Obama if he decides to stop this shift to the right and politically fights for what is right.

        •  i would add (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          The Nose, neroden

          if they are going to call you a socialist regardless of your actual policy you might as well push something real and substantive.  It bugs the hell out of me that he catered for absolutely no reason.  The thing is, that many of us could have (and did) tell him things would happen that way.  

  •  Sorry, Kos I'd like to see the base (5+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    moira977, lirtydies, Vicky, exploring, Adept2u

      stop bashing President Obama.

      The lesson I have drawn from this election is that a divided Democratic Party cannot win victories at the national level or for the statehouses.

      If our president makes a strategic call that angers the base, I personally may feel angered, but I'm going to toe the line.

      I think we severely underestimated the Repubs.  They are far smarter and tougher than we give them credit for.

      They stay on message.  They don't break ranks when it's ON.

      So I'm with you, President Obama.  Do what you have to do to get us back the House, retain the Senate and get re-elected.

    •  NO support for Blue Dogs PERIOD! (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      neroden, Diebold Hacker

      You push that "Toe the line" crap and get Blue Dog idiots through the primaries? Your candidate loses not only my support but the support of many progressives who have been spit on for 2 years.

      No more!

      Go progressive for kiss 2012 goodbye because the progressives are not going to kiss Blue Dog ass any longer. We will vote them out in the primaries regardless of what challenges the general might bring.

    •  nah (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      neroden

      we don't have to "break ranks" if we have some real leadership.  Obama had the base completely behind him when he got elected.  Even if "Daily Kos" got behind him that wouldn't be enough as most of his base aren't political from day to day.  

    •  LEFT LANE MUST TURN LEFT (conditions permiting) (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      neroden

      even if the bridge it out and the cliff looms. Bush called it staying the course with the same disaster.

      If the base was interested in the issues they would have turned out.  2012 should have started in 2008.

      Obama started with a health care campaign for the history books instead of a jobs campaign for the next election. Progressives have to examine themselves to see if they pushed Congress too far.  Maybe blindly following the road sign LEFT LANE MUST TURN LEFT depends on seeing the road ahead.

      The message for Obama is the same as for Bush - do what the voters want done.  In 2006-08 is was get out of wars and get jobs.  The voters handed the ball to Democrats to see if the could do it. Now they handed it back to Republicans. Let's see what's next. BTW the 2006-8 message is still the same.

      •  History books dont make me laugh! (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        neroden, Diebold Hacker, abraxas

        If HCR is not repealed outright a good chunk of that sea anchor will be quietly repealed after a backroom deal. Followed of course by Tea Party screaming.

        You blame the left for this buddy and you kiss 2012 politically goodbye. You will not be able to defeat the GOP without seriously accepting and listening to progressives.

        I will say it yet again NO Blue dog will get my support in 2012 Go progressive or go home.

  •  From now until November 2012 (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    moira977

    ...I'm wearing a new T-shirt that reads: "Bring it on, motherfuckers!"

    "History does not repeat itself. At best, it rhymes." - Mark Twain

    by careerdoctor on Wed Nov 03, 2010 at 01:29:03 PM PDT

  •  As I have said all day. Go progressive or go home (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    The Nose, neroden

    We can defeat the GOP if we go for a full out progressive stance that connects with the people.

    You try voting in Blue Dog idiots again not only will they not have the support of me and many other progressives but if they get elected will set the party up for another 2010 or 1994.

    The debt issue is going to be VERY interesting to watch. They HAVE to let it raise and that will tick off ALOT of tea party idiots who think going into default will "Save er America!"

    I am also curious about what they will do with NASA. There is no longer a moon plan but any further cuts will end up gutting even the ISS program.

  •  i don't agree with kos on everything... (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    drmah, BDsTrinity

    ... but it's times (and posts) like this that make me love him. haters to the side--we have work to do.

  •  Very good summation. (0+ / 0-)

    Obama won't pick Dean so somebody acceptable needs to start surfacing now.

    Gibbs needs to be replaced too - maybe with a marketing team. Ha!

    "People need dramatic examples to shake them out of apathy," Bruce Wayne in Batman Begins.

    by kck on Wed Nov 03, 2010 at 01:31:32 PM PDT

    •  With Rahm gone, having Dean around is not (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      hyperstation, neroden, chelle in mo

      such a problem.

      Dean gets results.

      He is also a way to fire up the base.

      I could see Obama being willing to have Dean back.

      The question is whether Dean would want to.

      They didn't treat him very nice when it came to saying thank you after the election. (IMHO)

      Today's problems are yesterday's solutions. Don Beck

      by Sherri in TX on Wed Nov 03, 2010 at 02:07:31 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  win-win for Obama (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        hyperstation, neroden

        he'd get some love from the 'base' for acknowledging Dean AND he'd have someone out there who knows how to engage and fire the Dems up AND shoot down the Republican talking points. Dean makes noise and people take notice. (I can think of maybe five times I saw Kaine on TV during this whole cycle and I can't remember a thing he said).

  •  Results (0+ / 0-)

    I said it before the election and I'll say it again. Our side sits on their butts during off year elections and we got what we desrerved.
    Making change is a constant movement and our side needs to learn that you can't let up for a minute. The right knows this, why don't we?
    Of couse many on our side "hoped" for change instead of nominating a candidate who had a record of making change.

  •  Kos said the Repubs were almost extinct in 2008. (0+ / 0-)

    What happened?

    •  They still are they just don't know it. (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      neroden
      •  Note that both parties can go extinct. (0+ / 0-)

        It's rarer than only one going extinct, but they can both implode simultaneously.

        Indepdendents are now more than a third of the electorate, outnumbering Democrats as well as outnumbering Republicans.  A party shift is now inevitable.

        -5.63, -8.10. Learn about Duverger's Law.

        by neroden on Wed Nov 03, 2010 at 08:49:50 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  HCR and the Blue Dogs (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      The Nose

      No seriously the MAIN issue was we did almost nothing memorable for jobs. Few can name a single program the Stimulus bill paid for.

      Instead we push an absurdly expensive HCR bill for of BS and no public option on the people and expect them to come to us with flowers? They came at us with political chainsaws instead.

      Its about the jobs people and the lack of a progressive push to excite the base.

  •  I'm mentally drafting a letter to the President (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Sandy on Signal
    Not that I think it'll ever get in his hands but I do still have some audacious hope left. So far I have the following:

    "Mr. President, if you persist in your admitted stubborness of trying to find common or working ground with Republicans, to continue to look for what you call a bipartisan solution to America's problems you will destroy this country. You will destroy this country because you will have only one term in your Presidency. I realize you're willing to do that, at least you said so in regards to getting health care reform passed. But if you are a one term president that means your successor will be a Republican. And not the Eisenhower kind. And then your health care reform will be repealed or gutted to the point that everything good about it will be gone. And then the same strategies and form of governance you told us would continue to destroy America back in 2008 will resume and ramp up with a hitherto unseen earnestness and... "

    I don't really know what else I would say there other than telling him he can probably calculate the rest.

    Suggestions? Including the best way to get it into President Obama's hands?

  •  2012? (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Tulips

    Why are we giving up on 2010 and the lame duck session? Why are we giving up on 2011? Let the Republicans battle for 2012: ideology alone won't win elections for the Democrats.

    Take the high road.

    by esby on Wed Nov 03, 2010 at 01:33:23 PM PDT

  •  I think we should throw the 2012 election. (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    egarratt, neroden

    Let the Repubs be responsible for the collapse they started.

  •  Agreed@OFA needs (5+ / 0-)

    scrutiny and a possible retool.  Re: Dean, isn't he responsible for growing the tent to include Blue Dogs?

    •  GN1927 (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      GN1927, conlakappa

      don't bring facts to pile-on... this is so obviously generals-fighting-the-last-election(s) rhetoric i can't bear to read anymore.  

      blame, it's what's for dinner.  (except in this house!)  

      "From single strands of light we build our webs." ~kj

      by kj in missouri on Wed Nov 03, 2010 at 01:38:45 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  LMAO (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        kj in missouri, conlakappa

        I don't mind introspection in the slightest, this is necessary and good.  We got out-organized and the possibility of that happening again is significant.  But I don't agree with this response.  I do like the idea of re-engaging the electorate from the grassroots on up.  But anyone who imagines that Dean is going to be this huge liberal firebrand is mistaken as he's more centrist than has been credited in the netroots.  I also think that the lefty media has significant issues but I don't expect them to be addressed at all.

        •  OFA is a pretty slick operation so I'm not sure (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          kj in missouri, GN1927

          how it can be changed.  When we are talking whackadoos with purseloads of money from shady groups, what's the antidote?

          Float like a butterfly, sting like a bee. Your hands can't hit what your eyes can't see.

          by conlakappa on Wed Nov 03, 2010 at 02:07:06 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  the DISCLOSE act (5+ / 0-)

            sunshine, sunshine, sunshine.  there was a diary here earlier on it and, of course, it slipped down the list.  more fun to blame President Obama and his administration than look at actual issues that actually affected this election and will hold imaginable sway over the next election.

            cripes.  :-)

            "From single strands of light we build our webs." ~kj

            by kj in missouri on Wed Nov 03, 2010 at 02:14:11 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  We know what happened with that one bite (3+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              kj in missouri, GN1927, The Nose

              at the DISCLOSE apple.  It's not coming back in the next two years.

              Float like a butterfly, sting like a bee. Your hands can't hit what your eyes can't see.

              by conlakappa on Wed Nov 03, 2010 at 02:16:43 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  no, but we can bring it up (2+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                GN1927, brein

                in every single conversation and LTE we write. that's what i mean by sunshine.  the connection hasn't been made (from my pov) just how insanely much money was thrown into these races by people who didn't vote Democrat.  of course, i'm in Missouri, so there are more people who don't know than do, so it feels especially important to me to highlight the issue.  it's almost been a, "oh, so corporations did something again...." with little other thought about what or why or consequences. to Republican votes, the good guys won.  the god-fearing church-going fiscal-conservative GOP won.  corporations had nothing to do with it.  it is still an unexplored, untapped meme.

                "From single strands of light we build our webs." ~kj

                by kj in missouri on Wed Nov 03, 2010 at 02:22:31 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

          •  This is tough going (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            kj in missouri, brein, conlakappa

            no easy solutions.  I think that OFA definitely helped some of these NY House races (ex., Tim Bishop) but inspecting and refining strategy is crucial.  We absolutely lost the narrative wrt the unfair demonization of Speaker Pelosi with a few people running away from Dem legislation, some running towards it, and chaos while the GOP just uniformly blanketed talking points about a big-spending, do-nothing congress.  Reid seemed to have had success re: replacing the Indies which he lost to Angle (who was favored by a majority of Indies) with some of the '08 coalition, and he had to defend the legislation of which he was such a major part, so perhaps there are some insights to be gained there.  

            •  I was impressed with OFA's strategy, as it had (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              kj in missouri, GN1927

              me calling within my State [going to the Dem office near my home] and later other time zones.  With each call, an encouraging message came up.  And they implored me to return and do more.  

              I think you said you gave to the DSCC.  Did you like its message of thanks?  My internet was wonking out so I couldn't listen to the President's conference call with OFA.

              Float like a butterfly, sting like a bee. Your hands can't hit what your eyes can't see.

              by conlakappa on Wed Nov 03, 2010 at 02:19:44 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

        •  Howard Dean (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          GN1927

          has always been more centrist than many in the blogosphere would care to admit, yes. that was one of the first memes i took countered on-line years ago.  that said, i admire and respect Dr. Dean. his accomplishments are tangible and real and part of his strategy did indeed bring blue dog dems into elective politics.  we can't deny that on one hand and celebrate it on the other.

          it's the idea that the blogs resemble 'the base' at a majority level, instead of individuals here and there and everywhere scattered about, is what continues to astound me.  bloggers aren't the base by a long stretch.  how many years until we are the base is an open question.

          no, i don't mind introspection at all.  the idea that this diary didn't begin with looking at President Obama and his administration is something i find disingenuous.

          did we bring out the 'young' vote?  not as before.  those reasons?  many.  and one of them is simply many first-time voters have no inkling how long the battle is or how often they actually have to suit up and show up.  wins aren't easy.  losses are a given.

          anyway, rambling.  :-)   good to see you!

          "From single strands of light we build our webs." ~kj

          by kj in missouri on Wed Nov 03, 2010 at 02:11:36 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Great to see you as well! (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            kj in missouri

            I think that there's going to be some variance in contest to contest wrt who was successful in getting out some of the '08 base and who simply was not.  You don't have to convince me that blogs aren't the whole base.  Ditto@Dr. Dean.  I love him and he certainly has contributed a great deal, I just think he's pretty centrist (one example of many: mosque comments), and I have real doubts about him producing a liberal revolution across the country rather than the same coalition of centrist or moderate Dems who make concessions to their respective contexts in order to win, yet prove frustrating when major legislation is on the table.

            IMO we need a real grassroots movement to engage this electorate, voter to voter, and discuss the progressive changes which are beyond necessary as well as have a rational and informed conversation about what has been accomplished (how are Dems demonized re: jobs when they created more in this little time than the GOP created in the eight years of Bush's term??).

            •  i agree, (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              GN1927

              and i'm more and more convinced that whatever the movement becomes, it truly has to be representative of what 'it' espouses.

              which means serious coalitions of so-called outsiders.  serious coalitions of what are still considered fringe groups or special interests groups, and for that to happen, those groups are going to have to learn to embrace each other and stop the counter-productive impulse to blame anyone and everyone but their "own."

              if the blogosphere could lead the way in that kind of direction i'd be right in the thick of the action.  in the meantime, this place is still an information-gathering device to take, and work, outside.  and "outside" is so limiting compared to the resources here in cyberspace.

              gender, race, immigration, in no particular order.  if Democrats are about identity politics, let's just embrace that and lead with it.  :-)

              "From single strands of light we build our webs." ~kj

              by kj in missouri on Wed Nov 03, 2010 at 02:34:24 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

      •  I blame GN192 (0+ / 0-)

        To discuss Republican policies that hurt the less affluent and favor those that need no favors is class warfare.

        by Diebold Hacker on Wed Nov 03, 2010 at 09:07:14 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  Bring Back Dean! (6+ / 0-)

    Not keeping him was stupidity beyond belief!

    Desperate for a leader they crossed state lines to follow a clown But didn't cross their street to vote, 3 days later

    by lawnorder on Wed Nov 03, 2010 at 01:34:45 PM PDT

  •  Are we extending the Bush Tax cuts? (0+ / 0-)
    •  Probably (0+ / 0-)

      That hasn't been addressed. Obama will probably ask Boehner real nice to just drop it. He may even have a bi-partisan cocktail party!

      Change takes time, so do donations. Nada until DADT is really, fully repealed.

      by gladkov on Wed Nov 03, 2010 at 01:40:02 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  For the Middle class and under (0+ / 0-)

      If he extended them outright then I wont be surprised if Obama is voted out in a landslide in 2012.

    •  Obama middle class cuts (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      The Nose

      should be addressed in lame duck session.

      Save the over $250,000 cuts for the republicans to push thru separately in  January.

      Make it a real politcal problem for them.

      Another try at anti-Citizen's United legislation should also be done lame duck.

      Republicans won't want to do anything about election reform come the new year, as it helped them so much this past election.

      Today's problems are yesterday's solutions. Don Beck

      by Sherri in TX on Wed Nov 03, 2010 at 02:03:12 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  You bet. The compromise will be to just extend it (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      neroden

      All of it that is. The Repubs have managed to spin it as looming tax increases. Taxes will go up, so it's an increase right? And each time it's brought up that the cuts should only be extended for the regular people, they scream about Democrats killing small businesses - with nothing to back it up, but nobody demands the facts either. And so they prevail. Again.

      We don't inherit the world from the past. We borrow it from the future.

      by minorityusa on Wed Nov 03, 2010 at 03:17:35 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Kos (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Adept2u

    you're an author for god's sake.  you open a diary with two issues that speak to President Obama, and then this:

    What has happened has happened. I'm less interested in talking about the ways the administration screwed up, than in what they're going to do about it in preparation of 2012. First thing's first -- stop bashing the base, or the professional left, or whatever liberal boogeymen pisses them off.

    i don't know whether to point out the, "I'm less interested in talking..." sentence coming on the heels of your diary's intro, or laughing out loud at your "First thing's first -- stop bashing the base..."  

    ??? come on.  

    "From single strands of light we build our webs." ~kj

    by kj in missouri on Wed Nov 03, 2010 at 01:35:59 PM PDT

  •  Actually, we should have thrown the 2010 election (0+ / 0-)

    It's too late now. We should have given the Senate to the Repubs.

  •  Clinton got support. . . (5+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    lirtydies, Vicky, abraxas, Adept2u, sallystrutt

    from Dems all through the impeachment process.  Even far left Dems.

    Interesting how far left Dems can waiver in their support of this President so quickly.  

    Obama didn't get through year 1 before Progressives were bi-atching ad nauseum about what he hadn't gotten done yet.

    Apparently, a presidential term has been reduced to a year and a half.

    Obama was smart to tackle the healthcare bill when he did.  He looked at history and knew that the GOP would likely take control of the House, and then he wouldn't even be able to lay a foundation.  He did take advantage of the majority he had. The bill ain't perfect, but it exists.

    The lack of respect for this President is not only coming from the Tea Party and the GOP.

    An Obama presidency can't make up for over 30 years of conservative rule.

    by Dailyfare on Wed Nov 03, 2010 at 01:36:19 PM PDT

    •  Clinton didn't get support from me on everything (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      The Nose

      But as a southerner, maybe he got support from some of those "Democrats."  Also he made some very HUGE mistakes when he caved in and deregulated banking and everything else.  He also made a huge mistake with his free trade agreement with China and the rest with no strings attached.  We're still living with the consequences.  Obviously, he was looking out for Bill Clinton more than for the nation.

    •  We learned from Clinton. (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      The Nose

      Now I'm much more suspicious of Dem presidents.

      To discuss Republican policies that hurt the less affluent and favor those that need no favors is class warfare.

      by Diebold Hacker on Wed Nov 03, 2010 at 09:18:58 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Don't forget the GLBT commmunity (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    lirtydies

    I voted yesterday but I can well imagine there are gay people out there MIGHTY pissed off who did not. I would suggest Eric Holder re-think this "custom" of appealing cases struck down by the court. Yeah, it may go to the CS, may not go our way, but god damn it, the Obama DOJ doesn't need to aid and abet when not necessary.

    Change takes time, so do donations. Nada until DADT is really, fully repealed.

    by gladkov on Wed Nov 03, 2010 at 01:37:19 PM PDT

  •  Still peddling that enthusiasm gap BS eh? (0+ / 0-)

    Wrong then, wrong now:

    Roughly 20 percent of Americans under the age of 30 voted in Tuesday's midterm elections, according to the Center for Information and Research on Civic Learning and Engagement.

    The turnout was in the normal range for midterm elections, but three percentage points lower than 2006. Get-out-the-vote groups blamed the decline on candidates' failure to engage young voters.

    Progressivism, like conservatism, cannot fail. It can only be failed.

    by tomjones on Wed Nov 03, 2010 at 01:37:49 PM PDT

  •  May the Democratic majority. . . (0+ / 0-)

    is too broad.  We can't seem to agree on shi-ite.

    An Obama presidency can't make up for over 30 years of conservative rule.

    by Dailyfare on Wed Nov 03, 2010 at 01:38:23 PM PDT

  •  Disagree - he's not a bluedog (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Sherri in TX, ImagineOhio, brein

    Read this article on Obama's voice:

    The nation was ready for transformation, but the president gave us transaction. And, as is the case with leadership failures, much of the public's anger, disappointment and frustration has been turned on a leader who failed to lead.

    Obama and his team made three crucial choices that undermined the president's transformational mission. First, he abandoned the bully pulpit of moral argument and public education. Next, he chose to lead with a politics of compromise rather than advocacy. And finally, he chose to demobilize the movement that elected him president. By shifting focus from a public ready to drive change — as in "yes we can" — he shifted the focus to himself and attempted to negotiate change from the inside, as in "yes I can."

    CLEAR Act would sell carbon shares to fuel producers and would return 75 percent of the resulting revenue in $1,100 checks to every American.

    by mrobinson on Wed Nov 03, 2010 at 01:39:22 PM PDT

  •  Kos, Kos, Kos, how do even you still not get it? (15+ / 0-)

    There's no way Boehner can thread the needle between governing and maintaining ideological purity. The two are not mutually compatible. We're already seeing it with Boehner's contortions on lifting the debt ceiling -- no matter what he does, he can't win (avert economic disaster, or appease the teabaggers).

    First, you over estimate the teabaggers.  K Street is going to be walking through their doors with gigantic bagfuls of cash, and they'll be corporatist shills by tomorrow morning.  

    Second, the Republicans have threaded more difficult camels through narrower needle eyes for decades now.  It starts with screaming that it was the Democrats fault for the disasters they create, and is completed by the MSMs failure to tell the American people the truth about it, because the Democrats refuse to play on that level.

    My suggestion, start blaming the Republicans for shit they haven't even done, do it loudly, do it without truth, and do it without shame.

    After screaming about the deficits for years, the Republicans raised the deficit to levels we have never seen!!!!!

    Start screaming it over and over and over until it becomes CW.  We keep treating the American people as intelligent, reasoned people, instead of the idiot fucking rubes the defunded American education system has made of them, and we will continue to get our asses kicked.

  •  Great article, but what if Obama doesn't change? (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    neroden
  •  the third way (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    The Nose, chelle in mo

    on "morning joke" this am on msnbc, Harold ford was advocating that dems need to move further right.  John Meacham said the voters were against an overreaching proto-socialist gov't.  This seems to becoming the conventional wisdom. We need to fight this narrative so that the dnc and the administration do not act as if this is true.  

  •  Democrats Future Conduct (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    The Nose

    It's time to appoint a well-spoken and respected Democrat or group of Democrats who're responsible for calling  the  Repubs (new word intended derisively) out for their double-speak, their frequent lies and their repeated obfuscations. This is a task that must be ongoing and unrelenting until at least the 2012 elections. It's not going to work being nicey-nice with the Repubs. Our spokesmen must hammer home to the American voters the great damage the Repubs are wreaking on our Country. We must also be very clear and focused about the great harm the Repubs are threatening for our economy and our democracy.

    •  That would be impolite. (0+ / 0-)

      To discuss Republican policies that hurt the less affluent and favor those that need no favors is class warfare.

      by Diebold Hacker on Wed Nov 03, 2010 at 02:48:03 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Whose Class Warfare? (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        The Nose

        The term "Class Warfare" is constantly used by the right-wing whenever anyone questions the criminal greed and rapacious activities of many affluent. Why is it that that rich (on left and right) are so willing to knowingly use the tragic undocumented for domestic services when theses affluent could easily afford well-paid domestic workers? The answer of course is runaway greed. The recent Republican candidate for CA governor is a classic example of this attitude. And I will say sarcastically that speaking of such is "class warfare". Of course, the real class warfare  is that being propounded and conducted by the US Chamber of Commerce and their  foreign and  domestic corporate members who seek destroy the labor unions and shift meaningful jobs to impoverished 3rd world countries, so that the leaders of these organizations can purchase the latest corporate jet and provide themselves with another $20 million or so in extra  options/perks.

  •  Just 734 days to go (0+ / 0-)

    November 6, 2012 we take our country back.

    There has never been a protracted war from which a country has benefited. The supreme art of war is to subdue the enemy without fighting. - Sun Tzu

    by OHeyeO on Wed Nov 03, 2010 at 01:48:07 PM PDT

  •  Right On Kos! (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    p a roberson, trinite, chelle in mo

    Bring back Dean. And I completely agree that the party, we, have to fight to give those of our base who didn't vote this time a reason to next time. Thanks.

  •  I busted my ass in... (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    The Nose, brein, Graff, My Name Isnt Earl

    2006, 2008, and this past year. I'm not giving up, but I am fucking pissed. I am pissed not because this administration has done too much, but for not doing enough.

    I was expecting bold changes and ideas, what I got was a knife in the back by the very people I helped get elected. I'm not the professional left. I'm an average person that believes in liberal ideals. To be denigrated by folks in the administration (you know who you are, you fuckers), is an insult to our hard work to ensure they had a senate and congressional majority to implement the changes we were told were coming. Mr. president, you blew it!

    Last night, we lost Congressman Skelton. I disagreed with him on some issues, but as a veteran I know that we had no better friend. He brought a lot of jobs to Missouri and did yoeman's work for the military service members, veterans and their families. Ms. Hartzler will never be able to fill his shoes.

    I have started my work for the next election cycle. I will bust ass some more and will do my damnedest (sic?), to deliver the House back to the democrats and 60 for the Senate. This time I want them to work as hard for me as  I have for them.

    One last thing, Mr. President get with the program or there won't be a second term, no matter how hard we work for you.  

    Those who are willing to sacrifice liberty for safety deserve neither. (Paraphrasing B. Franklin)

    by p a roberson on Wed Nov 03, 2010 at 01:49:38 PM PDT

  •  Thanks kos (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    p a roberson

    what you said and more. The demographic's in my liberal district and state went huge for Democrat's, even the indies in 04 and 08. We delivered Obama a large majority. I saw three lawn signs this election in my precinct, and they were for state house liberal candidates. We may end up with a lousy basketball player Republican for governor here and partly because Kitz was seen as an old establishment machine Democratic and his campaign was terrible to boot.

    Why not negotiate with the voters who I registered, first time voters. The young who turned out for change, and those who switched parties, and indies, the liberal working middle class, all who believed in 'bottom up' and audacity do not believe or trust this administration who will not fight for them. They could care less about moderate left or right but they know a bamboozle when they are forced to live with it's results. The Dems have no other choice but to fight for the people they need to offer them a new deal.                    

  •  MAKE JOBS, NOT WAR (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    The Nose, My Name Isnt Earl

    Who doesn't agree that the Democratic leadership has not communicated well, which is surprising given Obama's speaking ability.

    The message was muddied because Obama and the dems never figured out (with the possible exception of health care) what to fight for and then fight like hell while explaining the fight every single day.

    Instead of adopting progressive policies to solve problems, Obama choose a middle path, which blew up in our face.

    For example, the connection between the poor economy and wasteful spending on counterproductive wars has not been recognized (admitted) by the democratic leadership. If Obama had ended the counterproductive wars and stopped wasting three billion dollars a week on them, the money could have been used to make jobs. If he had had the courage to do so, the Republicans would have lost seats and we'd have a democratic governor and cabinet in Florida.

    If the mantra for the election was jobs, jobs, jobs, it should have been "make jobs, not war."
    Hillary Clinton still says, "Foreign policy will stay the same," which is a recipe for economic disaster and democrats.

    In short, Democratic leadership has failed the grass roots.

    Here is a link to the best analysis I've seen. We should all internalize it.

    Published on The New Republic (http://www.tnr.com)

  •  That Fighting Spirit (0+ / 0-)

    I love it. It's what Obama and the Dem house minority needs to show. Get rid of Pelosi and Hoyer. Reid? He knew how to fight when Bush was in office.

  •  If you weren't already the GOS, I'd rec you (0+ / 0-)

    I see them gloating today, and all I can think is, "bring it on, motherfuckers".

  •  Chain of error (0+ / 0-)
    1. Summers and Geithner-told Main Street Wall Street was more important
    1. Should have called for sacrifice from the wealthy in the name of economic patriotism and dramatized how bad things really were.  Dramatic huge stimilus with WPA type program should have hit Congress on Jan 21 2009.
    1.  Medicare for all hits Congress on Jan 21 2009. Start the fight there, and use the bully pulpit, maybe you get the public option. Don't leave Congress with the responsibility to slice and dice when they are more unpopular than you are.
    1. Every time some asshat like Shelby puts a hold on somebody, call them out in the press and then appoint the person the next recess.
    1.  Make the Rethugs actually stand up and filibuster, that way it's not just a one-day story.
    1.  Don't crap all over your-Van Jones, Shirtley Sherrod, Alan Simpson, Elizabeth Warren.
    1. Start with Glass-Steagall return, work from there.
    1.  Most criminally, and this one's on Nancy and Harry, force a vote in September on middle-class tax cuts, Dems were coming back that month, they sucked the air right out.
  •  Sorry, but (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    andrewj54

    ...the economy better start improving between now and 2012, or we'll lose. That is all people care about. A politician is like a rich person with a gold-digging paramour (the voting public). The rich person deep down wants to believe the relationship is somehow the real thing, and when the market dies the formerly rich person is shocked when the paramour packs and leaves. Hey Jack/Jill, it was the money, OK? Not your beliefs or your religion or your values or your looks. It was the goddamn money.

    If anyone out there thinks we will convince the people otherwise in time for 2012, dream on.

  •  Young people can tell when they're being hosed. (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    neroden

    In 2008, 18-to-29-year-olds made up 18% and those 65-plus made up 16%. Young people actually outvoted old people. This year, the young cohort was down to 11%, and the seniors were up to a whopping 23% of the electorate. That's a 24-point flip.

    It's the fascism, stupid!

    by lastman on Wed Nov 03, 2010 at 01:59:20 PM PDT

  •  Thanks Kos for the link (0+ / 0-)

    Now Obama must take a deep breath, step back, reflect on the values that drew him into public life in the first place and acknowledge responsibility for his mistakes. He must reverse the leadership choices of the first half of his term. His No. 1 mission must be to speak for the anxious and the marginalized and to lead us in the task of putting Americans to work rebuilding our future. He must advocate, not merely try to mediate in a fractious, divided Washington. And he must again rely on ordinary citizens to help us move forward.

    Although the stakes are greater than ever, only by rediscovering the courage for transformational leadership can he — with us — begin anew.

    I agree.

    Marshall Ganz helped devise the grass-roots organizing model for the Obama campaign. His most recent book is "Why David Sometimes Wins: Leadership, Organization, and Strategy in the California Farm Worker Movement." He is a lecturer in public policy at Harvard University.

    CLEAR Act would sell carbon shares to fuel producers and would return 75 percent of the resulting revenue in $1,100 checks to every American.

    by mrobinson on Wed Nov 03, 2010 at 01:59:42 PM PDT

  •  i hope they are reading this (0+ / 0-)

    because i agree with you 100% kos. especially your comments on the GOP's civil war and ours.

    I'm looking forward to a failed speak boner.

  •  Start fixing problems. Stop playing games. (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    neroden, Senor Unoball

    Democrats have to focus on nations problems and how to fix them.

    1. Problem: DC Gridlock. Fix: Kill the filibuster. Kill fake "rules" that allow one Senator to hold bills and appointments.
    1. Problem: Deficit/debt. Fix. Kill ALL Bush tax cuts. reduce military budget from $1T per year to Russian + Chinese budgets combined ($300B). Raise limit on SS tax to include ALL income.
    1. Problem. $400B oil trade deficit. $1T military budget to occupy Middle East to secure US oil supply. Fix. Cut US oil use by 50% in 10 years.
    1. Problem. US health care cost 20% GDP bs Europe 10%. Fix Adopt working Euro mode via Medicare for All. Insurance companies out of health care.
    1. Problem. Global warming. US cuts Emission 80% per Scientists recs. Cutting oil use does most of it.

    The point of government is to fix problems. Do that and don't worry about the "game". If you do't fix the problems no point in winning the game. That's why Democrats lost the "game" because that is what they were playing at instead of fixing problems.

  •  Close down Guantanamo prison (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    neroden, Lady Libertine

    As Commander-in-Chief, Bush opened it. Who says Obama needs permission to close a military prison?  Who disobeyed his executive order?

    CLEAR Act would sell carbon shares to fuel producers and would return 75 percent of the resulting revenue in $1,100 checks to every American.

    by mrobinson on Wed Nov 03, 2010 at 02:04:02 PM PDT

  •  Recess appointments (0+ / 0-)

    Appoint all of the nominations. Now.

    CLEAR Act would sell carbon shares to fuel producers and would return 75 percent of the resulting revenue in $1,100 checks to every American.

    by mrobinson on Wed Nov 03, 2010 at 02:06:20 PM PDT

  •  Thanks Kos (0+ / 0-)

    I needed that.

    "Fighting for us, good. Winning, better. Talking about fighting? Not so good."--Atrios

    by andrewj54 on Wed Nov 03, 2010 at 02:17:02 PM PDT

  •  Should Grayson replace Kaine? NT (0+ / 0-)

    "All people are born alike - except Republicans and Democrats" - Groucho Marx

    by GrumpyOldGeek on Wed Nov 03, 2010 at 02:19:05 PM PDT

  •  God, all these postmortems. (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    PhilW

    This is an off-year election in a lousy economy. That dominates the argument. All others are secondary. If the Republicans were in power now they'd have been kicked out. Mother Theresa, St. Francis, Gandhi, Buddha, and Jesus would have been kicked out.

    We can spin all the "analyses" we want, but if jobs don't return all the "messaging" won't mean shit. Clinton found that out, and so did Reagan in their first terms.  

    "This is NOT the last election on earth."--WT

    by Wildthumb on Wed Nov 03, 2010 at 02:24:06 PM PDT

  •  Hell yeah KOS! (0+ / 0-)

    Every word like honey on a biscuit.

    Bring it you rightwing nutjob motherfuckers. I'm actually upbeat about today's results. Just so I can watch the teabaggers and the nutters implode AND so that America gets a stronger dose of the rightwing crazy. Apparently they need more to wake up. So, here's to a heaping serving so that maybe, just maybe, Americans will WAKE. THE. FUCK. UP.

    (There has to be a point when a species realizes that self-inflicted pain is probably not good for itself. Apparently, for the American voter, this learning curve is a bit steeper than other species.)

  •  Kos-You said it better than I could (0+ / 0-)

    and with more statistics and better analysis.

    But, that was my gut feelings as well as to the why the dems lost.

    President Obama needs to get some better advice for starters.

    I'm mad as hell and I'm going to keep fighting!

    I ask him if he was warm enough? "Warm," he growled, "I haven't been warm since Bastogne."

    by Unrepentant Liberal on Wed Nov 03, 2010 at 02:33:11 PM PDT

  •  One last thing: someday perhaps a psychohistory (3+ / 0-)

    could be written about an electorate that constantly votes against itself, and thinks that government "does too much" even while they fanatically guard their medicare, V.A benefits, and social security payments.
    That wants healthcare repealed while it wants ALL the new benefits. If you don't think a large part of our problem is an irrational, ill-informed public and is really just about "effective campaigning," we're in trouble. The long-term goal should be to create grassroots organizations that help educate the public.
    We should stop fighting amongst ourselves and create those grassroots organizations.

    "This is NOT the last election on earth."--WT

    by Wildthumb on Wed Nov 03, 2010 at 02:34:34 PM PDT

  •  Will we have to get another Presidential candidat (0+ / 0-)

    e? Obama seems to have no idea how to deal with bullies.

    WE must hang together or we will all hang separately. B.Franklin

    by ruthhmiller on Wed Nov 03, 2010 at 02:37:36 PM PDT

  •  tea party moved Dems right (0+ / 0-)
    and the Republicans to the far right, says Stoddard from THE HILL blog.

    Tea party has no power strong enough to run as a third party so use the Republican line. They claim to be new and all grass roots but most are just far right wing of GOP with a voice in the foreground.

    With out cooperation of mainstream GOP teaps would drop dead from lack of oxygen.

    Teaps need GOP more than GOP needs them.

    Cel

  •  A message to far left leaning progressives (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    kj in missouri

    If liberals voted in lower numbers that means they are NOT a base. When I was at the OFA office in Palo Alto Ca, the majority of volunteer were older long time Democrats like me. You need to understand you do not get everything you want right away. You cannot win with liberals candidates in conservative states (that's why we have Blue Dogs). It is better to have a Blue dog Democrat than an anti choice republican. The left did a real disservice to Democrats and Blanche Lincoln.

    Stick with Democrats, vote, stay active but look at the border progressive agenda,instead of small issues like a 'public opiton".

    •  No. (4+ / 0-)

      No, I won't continue to vote for assholes who will not fight for progressive values.

      I am not beholden to this democratic party. It is the other way around. They want my vote? Fight for it! Or get shellacked in the next election too.

      To discuss Republican policies that hurt the less affluent and favor those that need no favors is class warfare.

      by Diebold Hacker on Wed Nov 03, 2010 at 03:05:44 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  hard as hell to do, (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      neroden

      at times but in some states there simply isn't any other option.

      i won't cede to the ground to a teabagger, birther or Bircher, ever.

      the new young voters are still that, new and young. this election is a lesson.  wins aren't givens.

      "From single strands of light we build our webs." ~kj

      by kj in missouri on Wed Nov 03, 2010 at 03:34:23 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Don't accept defeat preemptively. (0+ / 0-)

      You absolutely can win with progressive (well... economically progressive) candidates anywhere in the country.

      If you have the right permanent operation.  Which Howard Dean was setting up until Obama dismembered it.

      And you have the right policies implemented which actually help the economy.  Which Obama signally refused to do.

      -5.63, -8.10. Learn about Duverger's Law.

      by neroden on Wed Nov 03, 2010 at 08:52:41 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  The Repugs Got Their Base (Nutsos) All Worked Up (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Sandy on Signal, The Nose

    The democrats did not get his base worked up at all.  I have been saying forever is that Bush knew who his base was and understood how important it was to keep his base happy.  He did not care so much about independents as much as keeping his core base happy.  His base rewarded him by going out to vote.  End of story.

  •  On the Ground, every state (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    neroden

    We Need Howard Dean back at the DNC. He had a plan that put boots on the ground in every state.  We have to have that.  Places we got clobbered we had no effective get out the vote message.  We need to be present in every University and college to touch base with young voters.  That list that went no where after the 2008 election,  get it and start going after those voters. See what their concerns are and Address them.  Organizing is our best bet.  
    I'm sorry to say that we also need to start going after our own big corporate donors.  It is the only way to fight this fight.  Right now the Repubs have an influx of big money, we need the same if we are to be able to take them on at their own game.
    Just my thoughts.

  •  They'll never bring back Dean. (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    neroden

    Dean stands for empowerment of the base, which is something Obama has always opposed. He believes in controlling everything himself.

    The Raptor of Spain: An Alternate Histoyr Blog
    From Muslim Prince to Christian King (Updated Sept. 8!)

    by MNPundit on Wed Nov 03, 2010 at 04:02:37 PM PDT

  •  You nailed it bigtime Kos.