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Thursday night on Lawrence O'Donnell's new show, O'Donnell pressed GOP Congressman John Mica of Florida about his position on extending Bush tax cuts. Their brief exchange illustrated the exact reason why Democrats should be eager to have a public debate over tax policy.

As you'll see, Mica adopted the GOP position, which is that if the wealthiest people don't get a tax cut on their income over $250,000, then nobody should get a tax cut. When O'Donnell asked him to defend his position, Mica descended into Rand Paul territory and argued that the richest people were most in need of a tax break because they are the ones who make our economy strong.

Here's the video, followed by a transcript:

O'DONNELL: Congressman Mica, if in the lame duck session in the House, the leadership brings up a bill to extend the Bush tax rates for all of the tax brackets except the top tax bracket, and you are allowed to vote yes or no on that bill, how will you vote on that bill?

MICA: I heard your exception. My vote would be no, because I think...

O'DONNELL: So you would be voting against a tax cut for all brackets except the top bracket? You'd vote no on that kind of tax cut.

MICA: Absolutely.

O'DONNELL: And how would you justify that to your constituents, about 99% of whom live below the $250,000 tax bracket?

MICA: Well, some people just don't seem to get it, but it's the people who actually have the money, the money to invest in getting jobs and expanding the economy, and getting America going again, those are the folks that need some tax certainty, some tax breaks. We should be lowering our corporate rate.

Actually, it's Mica that doesn't get it. His position is that if the top earners don't get a tax cut on their income above $250,000, then nobody should get a tax cut at all. And his defense for that position is to argue that economic growth flows from the top down.

But Mica's got a problem: In the 1990s, we raised taxes on top earners, and the economy boomed -- plus we got our fiscal house in order. Then in 2001, Bush and Republicans cut taxes on top earners, and for the last decade, the economy has tanked. Yet despite that track record, Mica thinks we need more of the same. It makes no sense.

Mica believes that all we need to do in order to have a strong economy is to borrow $700 billion and give it to the wealthiest people in the country. Most Democrats believe there are better things we could do with that money -- like paying down our national debt. It's a position worth fighting for. And it's a fight they can win.

Originally posted to Daily Kos on Fri Nov 19, 2010 at 06:20 PM PST.


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Comment Preferences

  •  So, the only way to lose is if the Dems cave? (6+ / 0-)

    Well, guess we'll lose then.

    There are many reasons why I love women. The number one reason is that without them there'd never be a Democrat elected to office.

    by jazzmaniac on Fri Nov 19, 2010 at 06:21:35 PM PST

    •  Total lies (0+ / 0-)

      Anyone could easily see it is the every-day people doing every-day things that drive this economy the most.

      yeah the goons have gone global and the CEOs are shredin files and the democrins and the republicrats are flashing their toothy smiles -Serpintine-Ani Difranco

      by Macrocosm on Fri Nov 19, 2010 at 11:57:17 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Let's play their game (7+ / 0-)

    John Mica just proposed the biggest tax increase in history.  

    "This world demands the qualities of youth: not a time of life but a state of mind[.]" -- Robert F. Kennedy

    by Loge on Fri Nov 19, 2010 at 06:22:04 PM PST

  •'s not supposed to make sense (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    cotterperson, Dallasdoc, Matt Z

    Here we are now Entertain us I feel stupid and contagious

    by Scarce on Fri Nov 19, 2010 at 06:23:48 PM PST

  •  This whole "conversation" is a fraud. (9+ / 0-)

    I'm willing to wager that taxes are not the cause of our economic problems.

    It's wall street's criminality, and the fact that there have been NO consequences for the ones that destroyed the economy.

    It's also the elephant in the room:  We are waging two wars right now, and we shouldn't be in either country at this point!   It is draining us.   Every dollar spent on warfare is being taken from the cities and citizens of this nation.

    Taxes have little to do with it.  It's a side show.

    Social Security is my line in the sand. Oppose it, and I oppose you.

    by Beelzebud on Fri Nov 19, 2010 at 06:23:54 PM PST

  •  I'm thinking a large percentage (9+ / 0-)

    of these goons know the tax cuts for rich fucks don't make jobs, but keep banging on about it because the argument continues to find purchase.

    O snail, climb Mount Fuji, but slowly, slowly! - Issa

    by bumblebums on Fri Nov 19, 2010 at 06:24:41 PM PST

    •  Supply Siders descended into absurdity. (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      NancyK, Matt Z

      Early in the Reagan years, Supply Side economists argued that there was point where further tax increases would so burden the economy that tax revenues would go down. I can accept that in extreme cases. I might be persuaded that the tax structure of the 1970s was that bad (although I have other theories for the 1980s prosperity).

      After George HW Bush and Bill Clinton increased taxes, the economy expanded for a solid decade. It would be hard for Supply Siders to explain how an overtaxed economy could have produced the High Tech bubble. They could have accepted that these tax increases were on the good side of the "Laffer Curve." Instead, they took the absurd position that ANY tax cut would increase government revenues--as i we could abolish taxes and so much money would just drift into the government's nets that we wouldn't know what to do with it.

      Greg McKendry, Linda Kraeger, Dr. George Tiller, Steven Johns. Victims of Wingnut violence

      by Judge Moonbox on Fri Nov 19, 2010 at 09:34:04 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Then cave it will be. It should be obvious by now (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    jfern, East Village Blue, Mike Taylor

    that the outcome is scripted. Democrats, republicans...good cop, bad cop.

  •  Cave is our middle name. (3+ / 0-)

    And cave is indeed what we shall do. It's a genetic defect in Democrats, me thinks.

    A tax cut for the wealthy is the opiate of the rightwing masses.

    by edg on Fri Nov 19, 2010 at 06:28:06 PM PST

    •  So quit bitching on this site..... (0+ / 0-)

      ...and contact your Dem reps in Congress.
      (I have none, sadly.Texas resident. Need I say more?)

      Tell them that you're angry. Tell them that you want the tax cuts and the billionaires can take a flying leap. Tell them that if they don't grow spines, you're going to support whoever runs against them in the next Dem primary.

      If Dem politicians each get 10,000 emails with that kind of message, they might just grow spines.

      Freedom has two enemies: Those who want to control everyone around them...and those who feel no need to control themselves.

      by Sirenus on Sat Nov 20, 2010 at 07:26:23 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  WHere our tax dollars really go (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    "Sir, you are a very clever man, but not very wise. Everyone knows it's turtles, all the way down."

    by hester on Fri Nov 19, 2010 at 06:29:07 PM PST

    •  Explanatory link is (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      "Sir, you are a very clever man, but not very wise. Everyone knows it's turtles, all the way down."

      by hester on Fri Nov 19, 2010 at 06:30:30 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  more (5+ / 0-)

        U.S. Military Spending vs. The World

        U.S. military spending – Dept. of Defense plus nuclear weapons (in $billions) – is equal to the military spending of the next 15 countries combined.

        These numbers show military expenditures for each country. Some say that U.S. military spending will naturally be higher because it has the highest Gross Domestic Product (GDP) of any country. The United States accounts for 47 percent of the world’s total military spending, however the U.S.’s share of the world's GDP is about 21 percent. Also note that of the top 15 countries shown, at least 12 are considered allies of the U.S. The U.S. outspends Iran and North Korea by a ratio of 72 to one.

        "Sir, you are a very clever man, but not very wise. Everyone knows it's turtles, all the way down."

        by hester on Fri Nov 19, 2010 at 06:31:53 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

  •  I don't understand you people (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    J Rae, socalmonk

    Don't you realize that if we give the top end tax breaks they will be able to send it to both wall street and "their" elected leaders and that is what really matters in this economy?

    Man why don't you trust the fact that if you give 'em break they will give you a job?

    Well, if crime fighters fight crime and fire fighters fight fire, what do freedom fighters fight?~George Carlin

    by LaEscapee on Fri Nov 19, 2010 at 06:29:34 PM PST

    •  a job (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      Yeah. I am going to run down Monday and take that 8 month course on how to be a lobbyist/political ad writer/liar.
      I should be done just in time to get one of those good jobs in time for the next election.
      Too bad the student loans to retrain will run into the tens of thousands for what is a seasonal job.


  •  If the Republicans block or vote down... (12+ / 0-)

    ...the sub-$250K tax cut extension, the best thing would be for the Democrats to drop the whole thing, focus on other legislation, and let the whole of the Bush tax cuts expire at the end of the year. Some of us might feel the pinch, but nothing like the Republicans will get from their wealthy owners. All that money the swells spent in the midterms, and the Republicans lost their tax cut! The owners will take it outta the Republicans hides!

    The Democrats don't have to do anything! That's the beauty of this. I just wish I could get everyone to email their Senators and Congresscritters with this scenario.

    Float like a manhole cover, sting like a sash weight! Clean Coal Is A Clinker!

    by JeffW on Fri Nov 19, 2010 at 06:30:19 PM PST

  •  Republican Mike Pence of Indiana ... (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Matt Z, millwood, Judge Moonbox

    A tax cut for the wealthy is the opiate of the rightwing masses.

    by edg on Fri Nov 19, 2010 at 06:31:43 PM PST

  •  Let the tax cuts expire (10+ / 0-)

    For everyone.

    As planned.

    As fucking PLANNED.

    That's where I am right now.  It's the only way the wealthy won't get their permanent tax holiday.

    Let it lapse, and let the GOP try to resurrect it next year.

    If I show my support and enthusiasm for positive change, I create an environment that enables the change to be made even better.

    by Richard Cranium on Fri Nov 19, 2010 at 06:32:17 PM PST

  •  We get it all right, you asshole. (8+ / 0-)

    MICA: Well, some people just don't seem to get it, but it's the people who actually have the money, the money to invest in getting jobs and expanding the economy, and getting America going again, those are the folks that need some tax certainty,

    The "people who actually have the money" are the ones who have stopped the country dead in its tracks.  The only goddam thing they want is to make easy money with their fucking "innovative" financial Wall Street bullshit.

  •  Tax Cuts (0+ / 0-)

    I am sorry guys, but I am going to have to agree with him, just not for the same reasons.  As much as I am a supporter of the Democratic party, and as much as I tried to convince everyone I know to vote for Obama, I must disagree on this issue.  I believe that the taxes system her in America is critically flawed.  The government must step up and scratch all the regulations and guide-lines and start over.  We should replace the institution we have now with the European system: VAT tax of 15% and a low standard income tax of (x)%.  In this way, all people would be paying the exact same amount on goods and taxes.  The rich easily spend less money on lawyers on trying to avoid paying the huge bulk of their taxes than they would have to pay paying their taxes.  If the flat-rate tax was the same for everyone, and it was reasonably leveled, than these millionaires would actually pay less paying their taxes than on lawyers to avoid them [the taxes].  Although I am not a democrat, but a marxist instead, I do have to side with European socialism if we cannot achieve communism at this time.  So, to do that, we Need to reform taxes.  $250,000 tax line?  Are you serious?!?  Those people, including myself, are practically the only ones paying taxes and supporting this country (just read the Wall Street Journal, there was an article in there earlier this month).  We also have to pay for our children's schooling, property tax, etc... etc...  250,000 is not nearly high enough.  Don't debate it - Europe is having its problems but it is dealing with it in the best possible way; America is not, and will fail in these petty endeavours.  

  •  Schumer had a good idea (0+ / 0-)

    Extend them for those making under $1,000,000.

  •  Now I know where that word comes from... (0+ / 0-)

    spee-LUNK! It's onomatopoeia...a sound made by democrats.

  •  How freaking frustrating! (7+ / 0-)

    At no point in that back and forth, (and I watched the entire segment live) did anyone ask Mica to explain how it is that he could repeatedly call for the umemployment benefits to be paid for, but not explain how to pay for ultra wealthy tax cuts.  

    I can almost guarantee that his answer would be something to the effect that the tax cuts would pay for themselves.  It's either that or some sort of mumbo jumbo that has no real response to the question and just makes Republicans look foolish.

    I am the neo-con nightmare, I am a liberal with the facts.

    by bhfrik on Fri Nov 19, 2010 at 06:38:36 PM PST

  •  OMG!!! (0+ / 0-)

    OK,, wow...OK. I haven't posted here in some time, but that was the most exquisite display of arrogance and certainty that he knows for whom he plays I have seen in a long's all you have to do. Play that clip...the question...the chuckle...the "real" America really going to embrace this guy?

  •  I wonder if there was a followed-up question or (5+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    714day, Gordon20024, Matt Z, JeffW, skohayes

    comment about how the tax cuts under Bush didn't create jobs and kept the middle class' wages stagnant.

    The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt. Bertrand Russell

    by accumbens on Fri Nov 19, 2010 at 06:40:14 PM PST

  •  Oh hellz no (5+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    cotterperson, mike101, Matt Z, JeffW, skohayes

    We can at least get them to justify why they think that the rich need more money.  
    I like Alan Graysons' idea and ask them how many tubs of Grey Poupon they think they should be given -  at our expense -  every year.

    C'mon it would be fun! :-)

    And as for all the crap about how the rich make more jobs,,,, just once I'd like to hear someone ask them where the jobs are, seeing as these tax breaks have been in place for 10 years.

    Or, for that matter exactly what conditions they feel they need  - to get over their own damn selves  - to actually invest in their country's future.

    Really. Rather than just fall over like a stick of parboiled celery, it would be fucking ossim if someone somewhere actually asked critical and pointed questions to these arseclowns.

    "Why would that kind of work be 'ridiculous'? Who are THEY fighting for?"-------------- BHO on the GOP's mockery of community organizers.

    by speedingpullet on Fri Nov 19, 2010 at 06:40:22 PM PST

  •  Where Are The Jobs? (5+ / 0-)

    Could someone ask Mica please?

    They have had those tax cuts for 10 years and we have fewer jobs then ever.
    Maybe he is suggesting that we immigrate to where ever the jobs were off shored to.

  •  Why, oh why... (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Matt Z, JeffW, speedingpullet

    And his defense for that position is to argue that economic growth flows from the top down.

    But Mica's got a problem: In the 1990s, we raised taxes on top earners, and the economy boomed -- plus we got our fiscal house in order.

    isn't every Dem who gets the opportunity to offer the counterpoint to this nonsense not slapping it down in the handy way you can manage it? Even the author of the "trickle down theory" says it doesn't happen. The wealthy "job providers" fire people and horde their cash in times of woe.

  •  It’s worse than caving. (5+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Gordon20024, Matt Z, JeffW, royce, rennert

    The Bush tax cuts EXPIRE AUTOMATICALLY, IT TAKES AN ACT OF CONGRESS TO KEEP THEM FROM EXPIRING, (after they expire, Democrats could then offer a stand-alone middle-class tax-cuts bill, which republicans could never afford to oppose).
    Extending the Bush tax-cuts for the rich (when they don’t have to) is a lot worse than caving; it’s like going into a cave with explosives, setting them off while still inside, thereby causing a self-imposed entombment (being-caved-in-upon). What part of THE BUSH TAX-CUTS EXPIRE AUTOMATICALLY AND REPUBLICANS DON’T HAVE THE VOTES TO EXTEND THEM, THEN WE CAN PROPOSE TAX-CUTS FOR THE MIDDLE CLASS, AND REPUBLICANS COULDN’T POLITICALLY AFFORD TO OPPOSE THEM do they not understand?

    •  But, therein lies the problem. (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Mike Taylor

      It's a position worth fighting for. And it's a fight they can win.

      The Dems just won't fight. They'll cave.
      They'll give away their position before the debate to try and be 'bipartisan'.
      I've seen this same type of theater before and am sick of it. No matter the benefit to the working class our current elected body of Dems will cave.
      It's the families getting by on less that $100,000 that spend money. Not the rich. They'll only stash the windfall they receive away in some rathole account.

  •  Bush Borrowed and gave to the rich... (6+ / 0-)

    So let me get this straight: Bush borrowed money to give a tax break to the rich. The economy tanked, the country is going broke because of excessive spending, and now the GOP want to give it one more try. Borrow billions to give a tax break to the rich.
    I suggest we consider the taxes they saved in the Bush years enough.

  •  Easy answer... (6+ / 0-) the "the rich are keeping the economy strong" trope - "Our economy is pretty weak right now.  The rich and the corporations are falling down on the job!  If they were employees, they would be fired.  Let's put the money they're NOT using to good use by upping their tax rates."

  •  Rand Paul has great hair (0+ / 0-)

    When you all look for your souls, you had better find something that looks like JOBS.-Brooklyn BadBoy

    by Krush on Fri Nov 19, 2010 at 06:50:00 PM PST

  •  I'm calling BS on Mica (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Matt Z, JeffW, skohayes

    He is arguing for making the rate on PERSONAL taxes permanent yet he conflates it with the businesses needing money to invest in jobs and ends with "we should be lowering our corporate rate".

    He is purposely confusing the two to mislead about this topic.  I have noticed this a lot and there has been some articles pointing out that some very large businesses are NOT corporations but s-corp structure. It is of course in their best interest to keep the tax cuts permanent.  

    Glenn - Who cuts your hair and why do they hate you? (Jon Stewart)

    by veruca60 on Fri Nov 19, 2010 at 06:53:02 PM PST

    •  Had a friend of mine the other day pitch the same (0+ / 0-)

      ....line of bull. She'd seen an interview on television.

      She kept saying that people who make $250,000+ need the extra money to keep their businesses going. I tried to explain to her that this was $250,000 of personal income, and that someone who makes that kind of personal income off their business is not exactly struggling to keep the business open, but she was having none of it.

      She'd seen it on TV. So it was true.

      This is why Dems need to go on every talk show, network and cable, and explain this stuff. The neocons are doing what they do brilliantly...taking half-truths and twisting them into whole lies for their own purposes. And the talking heads on TV are too stupid to see the logical fallacies.

      Freedom has two enemies: Those who want to control everyone around them...and those who feel no need to control themselves.

      by Sirenus on Sat Nov 20, 2010 at 07:21:20 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Dem talking point (5+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Gordon20024, Matt Z, JeffW, royce, rennert

    "We'll agree to give tax breaks to wealthy job-creators , provided they create jobs in the US.  

    Will my Republican colleagues join me in supporting a measure that will make oversees investment, I like to call it Benedict Arnold investment, a criminal offense until unemployment is a five percent or below?  

    If not, would my friends please explain why their wealthy supporters are shipping good US dollars and jobs overseas?"

    Please encourage your Senators or Member of Congress to say something like this on the floor of the House or Senate.

    "Politics is the entertainment branch of industry." -Frank Zappa

    by TheGrandWazoo on Fri Nov 19, 2010 at 06:55:41 PM PST

  •  This is news? (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Matt Z, JeffW, theal8r

    We already know how the Republicans are going to vote. Just one asshole on a talk show. You could interchange this tool with any of the rest of them and get the same conversation.

    Just hold the damn vote.

    It is better to light one candle than to curse the darkness - Eleanor Roosevelt

    by Fish in Illinois on Fri Nov 19, 2010 at 06:56:27 PM PST

  •  Why don't we start calling the rich tax cut (5+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Gordon20024, Matt Z, JeffW, royce, rennert

    the "bonus for the wealthy", "rich stimulus", "wealth handout" or "bailout for the rich" or something?  I'm sure someone can come up with better terms, but something to reinforce that we will be borrowing 700B that we don't have to give to the rich for the umpteenth attempt to make trickle down work.

    Weren't Republicans and tea baggers pretending to go nuts about the deficit?

  •  The opposite of "War Games" (0+ / 0-)

    The only way to lose is not to play the game.

    " we could go all day with the issues "

    by East Village Blue on Fri Nov 19, 2010 at 07:27:07 PM PST

  •  The real question is how to get the public (0+ / 0-)

    to understand that the GOP talking point that tax cuts for the wealthy will equal jobs is farcical. At this point, people seem pretty willing to believe anything that sounds easy. The fact that these same cuts have been around for nearly 9 years and have yet to create jobs just isn't resonating.

    I don't believe the reason people resist any & all taxes is that they believe they'll some day strike it rich, as much as they're simply opposed to taxes for anyone.

    Particularly when wages have been stagnant for the better part of 30 years: the very idea of any more deductions seems to shut down the part of the brain that might reason that this wouldn't apply to them.

    If you are going to be progressive, then you have to make progress. And that sometimes depends on breaking a few legs. ~ Jennifer Granholm

    by Sandi Behrns on Fri Nov 19, 2010 at 08:06:59 PM PST

    •  the way to get the public is to DO it (0+ / 0-)

      and show them that the sky won't fall

      In the sea, Biscayne, there prinks
      The young emerald evening star,
      Good light for drunkards, poets, widows,
      And ladies soon to be married.

      by looty on Fri Nov 19, 2010 at 08:09:02 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  I am beginning to seriously doubt (0+ / 0-)

      that short of going door to door, you can't.  

      Case in point: My school system was updating our insurance to comply with "Obamacare", so we had our annual insurance meeting.  The teachers were grumbling and not a few were throwing around epithets toward Obama and the Democrats who have ruined health care.

      These are reasonably intelligent and well-educated people, remember.

      Then some of the specific changes came up.  Silence descended upon the room as people realized they benefits were actually BETTER and the cost increase was relatively small, even potentially balanced by the increases in service.

      Teach, preach, reach!

      by theal8r on Sat Nov 20, 2010 at 05:18:10 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Hell, the Repubs are in absolute lockstep (0+ / 0-)
    at this point... They know if Dems vote on the tax cut MOST OF AMERICA wants, the tax cuts for the rich will end.  Stay tuned for an all out assault.  The Repubs need to bring this one home for the rich that fund their campaigns.

    Gotta be done before Jan 20.

    I'd really like to know what, who the source is that provides the daily scripts for Repubs... It is so obvious that it's happening... but who is it?

    It's not Fox News, they GET their orders from the same source.

    Kick apart the structures - Seth

    by ceebee7 on Fri Nov 19, 2010 at 08:21:18 PM PST

  •  People, we are still stating the argument poorly: (0+ / 0-)

    Last week two posts (I forget the authors) argued for better ways to  state the whole debate. Any and all comments should make clear that the Democratic position is that EVERYONE gets a tax cut on income up $200,000/$250,000. We oppose--and Republicans favor--giving an EXTRA tax cut to the wealthy. Republicans will hold the tax cuts for EVERYONE--every working family, every middle class family, not to mention every wealthy family-- hostage in order to give EXTRA tax cuts to millionaires and billionaires.

  •  So, did O'Donnell show this guy the charts (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    and graphs that actually show that growth does not depend on tax cuts? Of course he didn't. He thinks the
    "debate" is enough.

    Under Eisenhower when taxes were sky high (and I don't remember one-tenth of the complaining then about taxes)
    we had "Eisenhower prosperity," for you amateur historians out there. The GOP has successively demonized taxes so much for more than thirty years that now raising them is the third rail, surpassing even social security.

    O, it is excellent to have a giant's strength; but it is tyrannous to use it like a giant." --Shakespeare, Measure for Measure

    by Wildthumb on Fri Nov 19, 2010 at 08:25:43 PM PST

  •  Ok, give the rich a tax cut but... (0+ / 0-)

    ...require them to spend the entire sum of that tax cut within the borders of the U.S.  No money leaves the country for any reason.  No trips to the Bahamas or the Orient or the Mediterranean.  

    And require them to spend the entire sum of the tax cut within the year.  And the money is ONLY to be spent investing in small businesses.  

    A registry of small businesses in need of funds must be kept by somebody.  Maybe the Chamber of Commerce -- use that registry to find businesses that need funds and REQUIRE that those making over $250,000 spend all that tax refund money investing in those small businesses.

    Give them the opportunity to put the money where they say it should go and do it in a timely fashion.  And not to businesses that they have any sort of personal relation ship to.  No kickbacks or nepotism ...

  •  Caving - It's what DCDems do. (0+ / 0-)
  •  at some point don't we get the govt we (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Matt Z

    deserve ?

    people voted these goons into office.

    if even 5% more of the people had gotten off their ass to vote we wouldn't be hearing about UE not being extended.

    if even 5% more got off their ass to vote we wouldn't be fighting two useless wars.

    I'm beginning to a lose a lot of what little sympathy for my fellow americans.

    60% of america doesn't vote.  they are getting the govt they deserve. the rest of us are just lucky enough to be in the way of that freight train.

    big badda boom : GRB 080913

    by squarewheel on Fri Nov 19, 2010 at 10:25:59 PM PST

  •  Certainty? (0+ / 0-)

    So all you Top One Percenters need some certainty? Here's some certainty: Your tax rate will go up to what it was in 2000. If modifying the tax rate in a spreadsheet is too difficult for your accountant, then I'm afraid you need an new accountant. 'Fess up, One Percenters, you aren't worried about these tax rates because you're unable to sleep at night not knowing how many employees you can afford to hire.

  •  Mica is a nimrod (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Matt Z, AreDeutz

    I was hoping weiner would go at him like Grayson.  I expect he's saving it up, but we're going to need a whole bunch of screamers of our own to confront these asswipes with the facts, even if the other side doesn't believe in them.

    He Boner, where are the jobs?

  •  Mica is a tool (0+ / 0-)
    We need a systematic, well-organized campaign to rid congress of these cretins.

    Bring back Howard Dean & his 50-state strategy!

    An honest man in politics shines more there than he would elsewhere - Mark Twain.

    by AreDeutz on Sat Nov 20, 2010 at 01:36:21 AM PST

  •  @ least you ID'd the Democratic strategy correcly (0+ / 0-)

    cave in faster than a Massey mine

  •  Let them expire (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Matt Z

    A month or so ago, I would have said that the debate over extending the tax cuts would be fraudulent because both parties know that the government needs more revenue, and behind closed doors that the leaders of both parties would admit at least to themselves that it has to be done and they want to do it; and the political maneuvering and votes about extending the tax cuts would just be a kubuki to try to assign blame.

    Now, my view has changed.  For whatever reasons you want to assign, I don't think that the next Congress, with a Republican House, is going to agree to tax increases of any kind. They are going to be all about spending cuts and repealing parts of the health care act.  There's not going to be any deals like there were between Reagan and Tip O'Neil, or Clinton and Newt Gingrich.  For the Republicans, it would be worse than when George H. W. Bush went back on his "read my lips: no new taxes" pledge, since the next Presidential election is only two years away.  They've painted themselves into a corner.

    Letting the tax cuts expire might well be the only thing that politically can be done on the revenue side for the next two years.

    So have the vote. But Obama cannot cave on this.

  •  2 Sentences Says it All (0+ / 0-)

    In the 1990s, we raised taxes on top earners, and the economy boomed -- plus we got our fiscal house in order. Then in 2001, Bush and Republicans cut taxes on top earners, and for the last decade, the economy has tanked.

    Don't they realize that top earners do better when they pay higher taxes because the economy is doing better, so the "pie" is bigger?

    This is why we need an "Across the Board" Tax cut on the first $250,000 in income for ALL earners.

    "I could buy a parrot and train it to say, `tax cuts,' but at the end of the day, it's still a parrot, not a conservative." -DE GOP chairman Tom Ross

    by Tuba Les on Sat Nov 20, 2010 at 04:09:56 AM PST

  •  They don't want to make money then if (0+ / 0-)

    They're only willing to spend money if it's given to them. I've always believed you have to spend money to make money. That gives me thought that they're only going to keep it socked away in an account if I give you a huge tax break. What are they doing with the money now while they're still get the tax break? If you're not spending it now what are you going to do with it next week if I give you the tax break?

  •  Here's what the interviewer should have said: (0+ / 0-)

    "So it's better for one person to have more money to spend than for 99 people to have more money to spend?  You're saying that the tax cut for that one person would be more than the combined tax cuts for the 99 people?"


    "Wouldn't be more likely that the 99 people would be spending those tax savings, since they need money for necessities, thus stimulating the economy, while the one rich person might save the money, since he doesn't need to spend it?"

    Freedom has two enemies: Those who want to control everyone around them...and those who feel no need to control themselves.

    by Sirenus on Sat Nov 20, 2010 at 07:16:22 AM PST

  •  I will say this again... (0+ / 0-)

    If the wealthy among us are the ones who generate jobs, then where are the jobs? It isn't like the top 1% is broke or anything.

    For the past ten years their portion of income going to taxes has been less than mine. I would argue that I have generated more jobs than they have, proportionally of course.

    I just bought groceries this morning. I'm sure the cashier is grateful for that. I ate at a restaurant this past week. A portion of my bill went into the pocket of the cook, bartender, hostess, and waitress. I think you get the idea. Bottom line, the more money I have the more I spend.

    Those who are willing to sacrifice liberty for safety deserve neither. (Paraphrasing B. Franklin)

    by p a roberson on Sat Nov 20, 2010 at 08:27:34 AM PST

  •  I remember seeing this (0+ / 0-)

    But I don't remember Lawrence bringing up the 1990s example.  Do any reporters or commentators come back with these facts?  Why don't they pin them to the wall - or will the Micas of the world just keep trying to wiggle out of it?

    Ask them - it didn't work before.  Why would it be different now?

  •  I saw that exchange and though Weiner did a good (0+ / 0-)

    job of NOT breaking out laughing on camera...

    that guy Mica just went on and on and it was sooo funny to listen to him as he went from "WE HAVE HEARD THE PEOPLE"  to 'NO TAX CUTS UNLESS RICH PEOPLE GET THEIRS"  lol  

    is that what the people told the gop?  

    One thing that did and ALWAYS irks me in these exchanges is that NO ONE challenges the gop BS that TAX CUTS FOR RICH PEOPLE are what creats JOBS in America...  I am waiting for ONE Democrat to counter that utter BS with the FACT that the rich in America have had this tax cut since the first month of BUSH's first term in office and no jobs were ever created, they were LOST ---every year of BUSH saw us lose more and more jobs EVEN though rich people had their tax cut.

    Have the TeaPublicans fixed the economy yet?

    by KnotIookin on Sat Nov 20, 2010 at 08:44:58 AM PST

  •  Presidential tactyician (0+ / 0-)

    Look, I've had my criticisms of Obama, especially as a tactician, but this week was brilliant.

    "We came to a decision, the regular-guy extension will move first separately."

    "But that was only one side deciding that."

    "We invited both sides; you didn't come."

    Corporations are people; money is speech.
    1984 - George Orwell

    by Frank Palmer on Sat Nov 20, 2010 at 09:51:35 AM PST

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