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I am an idealist about social issues but when it comes to economics and foreign policy I am a pragmatist.  So, you'll find me pushing for gay rights and justice for victims of domestic abuse.  But you'll also find me supporting compromise and consensus when it comes to economics and with a lot of understanding and patience when it comes to foreign policy.  So, that is where I am coming from when I say this.  

President Obama, fight already, will ya!  The House just set you up for a spike on YOUR middle class tax cuts but you not only didn't spike the ball you caught it and then handed it back to the other side to make the next move.  What. The. Hell.

President Obama, I don't want you wasting your time fighting with the Republicans every time they try to bait you into a fight.  You are the President not the head of the DNC.  So, I am happy that you stay above the fray most of the time.  And you have done amazing work for the last two years and I am damn happy and damn proud of you.  

But once in a while you have a situation where it's not just about you being baited into a fight that is beneath you.  The Republicans are not just trying to take you down by kicking your ass on these tax cuts.  They are trying to take our whole party down and they don't care if they drag the country down with us too.  

This isn't "you lie" this time.  Where you shrug it off and calmly say "that's not true".  This time they have walked up on stage and they are pushing you up against a wall like the bullies they are.  Stop letting them do this.  Not just for you but for all of us.  

I don't want you to be Captain Progressive all the time but for goodness sakes don't let the Republicans prove to the whole country that Democrats are the party of sissies by getting away with treating you like their bitch.  We are already the party of responsible parents who come in and clean up after the other party's out of control frat parties.  But we don't have to be the pushover parents.  We should be the ass kicking parents who grab the brats by the collar and force their asses into line.

I like you a lot, President Obama.  I respect that you stick with your strengths and I appreciate that you have the balls to do it despite how many people want you to change strategy because you know that you know how to win your way and you won't risk trying it a way that you don't think you can win.

But this is not about just winning the policy on this one.  The House got between you and the Republicans and they gave you the room you need to run this one to the end zone but you didn't run it.  I know that you have your plans but for fuck's sake your plan isn't the only plan every time.  The House just kicked mighty ass today and you let it all go for nothing.  And yeah, you'll get the middle class their tax cuts and yeah, you'll do it so that there's still time for dadt but you could have run with this and gotten more.  I don't know about everyone else but my taxes go up if you don't get the middle class tax cuts through but I could have lived with that if in exchange I got to watch you spike those mother fucking Republicans off the House's set up.  

You don't have to fight all the time.  But when you get set up like this on this big of a conflict between your party and the other party you gotta go with the moment and, as someone here wrote in a comment yesterday, get into the fray with us.    

UPDATE:

What is fight on this one?  Fight is making the Republicans VOTE NO instead of just threatening it.  And then trumpeting that NO from the bully pulpit from here until the 2012 elections.

Originally posted to bluefaction on Thu Dec 02, 2010 at 03:51 PM PST.

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Comment Preferences

  •  Tip Jar (19+ / 0-)

    A man abstemious, rigidly upright, inflexibly honest, ferociously chaste. A man with every virtue, except humility and human kindness. - Ellis Peters

    by bluefaction on Thu Dec 02, 2010 at 03:51:15 PM PST

  •  For this he also has to "fight" a good part (7+ / 0-)

    of the Senate Democrats as well.

    And no one has yet adequately explained what "fighting" looks like.

    Do you mean give speeches?

    Like the Health Care speech in 2009?

    What does "fighting" look like?

    "Nothing in all the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity." --M. L. King "You can't fix stupid" --Ron White

    by zenbassoon on Thu Dec 02, 2010 at 03:54:47 PM PST

    •  I reckon (5+ / 0-)

      some here want him to lose his temper and curse them out...

      RIP Pike Miners We will never forget

      by GlowNZ on Thu Dec 02, 2010 at 03:58:47 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Absolutely not and I update to clarify (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        blueoasis, DollyMadison

        A man abstemious, rigidly upright, inflexibly honest, ferociously chaste. A man with every virtue, except humility and human kindness. - Ellis Peters

        by bluefaction on Thu Dec 02, 2010 at 04:01:30 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  I just can't see this as victory (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Jerry056

          trumpeting that NO from the bully pulpit from here until the 2012 elections.

          compared to actually getting a bill THROUGH.  A bill that definitely helps the middle class (you and me) withouth being a total giveaway to the richest of the rich.  

          "The extinction of the human race will come from its inability to EMOTIONALLY comprehend the exponential function." -- Edward Teller

          by lgmcp on Thu Dec 02, 2010 at 04:09:55 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  they will get a bill through (4+ / 0-)

            but Obama is letting the Republicans share credit for it instead of making them live with having held middle class tax cuts hostage for tax cuts for the super rich

            A man abstemious, rigidly upright, inflexibly honest, ferociously chaste. A man with every virtue, except humility and human kindness. - Ellis Peters

            by bluefaction on Thu Dec 02, 2010 at 04:11:35 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  LIve with? (4+ / 0-)

              They don't CARE what they live with!  Consistency is nothing to them!  Or, apparently, to their voters.  They will just keep chanting that by protecting the richies and screwing everyone else to do it, they are "protecting American families and small businesses from higher taxes".  

              There is more political benefit to getting a bill through, than in forcing someone to obstruct it.

              Now I will happily join you in drawing a line in the sand if we are talking about making ALL Bush cuts permanet up to the highest levels -- no way! Likewise for keeping middle-class and rich cuts coupled together and equally temporary  -- no way!  Either of those would represent REAL and awful capitulation.

              But making the middle-class cuts permanent, and expiring the cuts for the richest, and dickering somewhat about the cutoff line in between (because there is nothing holy about $250K) ... would be a victory.  Not a pure one, not an unmixed one, maybe not as big a one as harder tactics might have gotten ... but a victory all the same.

              And it is still within reach, and it is clearly the direction Obama is signalling.

              So I just can't see this as disaster or game over.  

              "The extinction of the human race will come from its inability to EMOTIONALLY comprehend the exponential function." -- Edward Teller

              by lgmcp on Thu Dec 02, 2010 at 04:18:04 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  i didn't say anything abotu Obama (2+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                Jerry056, DollyMadison

                when he didn't take the steps to push a vote.  but when he gets in the way of the rest of the party trying to push a vote that is a whole other situation.  

                Obama is my guy.  i know a lot of people use the phrase 'i'm just criticizing the President' as an excuse to punch him in the face for beating their favorite candidate.  but that is not me.  i am actually criticizing him.  i am asking for more from him on this one.

                A man abstemious, rigidly upright, inflexibly honest, ferociously chaste. A man with every virtue, except humility and human kindness. - Ellis Peters

                by bluefaction on Thu Dec 02, 2010 at 04:22:16 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  Well I think he did take steps to push a vote (2+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  DianeNYS, a night owl

                  since the vote just happened. Natually Pelosi coordinates with the White House, right?  If the White House bears partial blame for legislative failues then it is only fair they get partial credit for legislative successes.    

                  And now he is going to do what he thinks will work best to push a vote in the Senate.  You, and many other here, think he is trying to get in the way, but I just can't see that.  He's trying to do what he things will work, and in fact it MIGHT work.  

                  "The extinction of the human race will come from its inability to EMOTIONALLY comprehend the exponential function." -- Edward Teller

                  by lgmcp on Thu Dec 02, 2010 at 04:29:31 PM PST

                  [ Parent ]

              •  I agree with decoupling (2+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                lgmcp, a night owl

                keeping both the middle class and the rich cuts together is political suicide and the Republicans will beat us over the head with it until 2012 and then some.

                I'm not a "line in the sand" kinda person but to me I can live with permanent middle class cuts and temporary rich cuts as long as START, DADT and Unemployment Insurance Extension is the price for letting the rich cuts be extended on a TEMPORARY basis.  Anything less than that is a giveaway to the Republicans.

        •  Per your clarification: (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          lgmcp, Free Jazz at High Noon

          If "fighting" means making the Republicans vote no and using it in 2012, that's already happening, isn't it? What more does President Obama have to do?

          Let President Obama be President Obama.

          by a night owl on Thu Dec 02, 2010 at 04:35:01 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

    •  Remember this? (7+ / 0-)

      Chill

      How can everything have gone so wrong?

      "Forget all tax cuts. Let them expire. I'll pay 800 or 900 hundred more so the rich pay 100,000 or 200,000 more " - Crazy like a fox

      by voracious on Thu Dec 02, 2010 at 04:20:32 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  Deja LBJ? (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Fabian

      how to fight?

      grab 'em by the short hairs!

      Did I misunderstand that Obama came from Chicago politics?

      Don't tell me he doesn't know how to fight; for some reason he's choosing not to.

      I think he really took the FDR "Make me!" statement to heart.

      So, ok, starting this week I'm seeing an across the board push back.

      Will it be enough to "make him?"

      I hope so.

  •  So I hear that you're Anton Bursch. (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    corvo, blueoasis, BFSkinner

    Is that true?

    This country's not working out like it said in the brochure. -- Gooserock

    by Colorado is the Shiznit on Thu Dec 02, 2010 at 03:55:36 PM PST

    •  what is the purpose of your question? (0+ / 0-)

      who i am is not public for a reason.  the moderators of daily kos know who i am.  why are you asking me?

      A man abstemious, rigidly upright, inflexibly honest, ferociously chaste. A man with every virtue, except humility and human kindness. - Ellis Peters

      by bluefaction on Thu Dec 02, 2010 at 04:14:37 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Because Anton Bursch was banned, as I recall. (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        corvo, Situational Lefty

        This country's not working out like it said in the brochure. -- Gooserock

        by Colorado is the Shiznit on Thu Dec 02, 2010 at 04:23:11 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  again, so, why are you asking me? (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          DollyMadison

          A man abstemious, rigidly upright, inflexibly honest, ferociously chaste. A man with every virtue, except humility and human kindness. - Ellis Peters

          by bluefaction on Thu Dec 02, 2010 at 04:26:53 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

        •  you are trying to get rid of me. (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          DollyMadison

          you are trying to get me to say that I am someone you think has been banned so you can get me banned.

          i have neither been banned nor have I come even close to doing anything that would get me banned.

          I was puzzled as to why you would try to do something this low down to me and then I looked at your comments and you just wrote this to someone else.

          Are you one of the few people left on here who sincerely does not believe that this administration is completely and totally hosed?

          by Colorado is the Shiznit

          I think that I have to conclude that you are trying to push people into believing that this administration is 'completely and totally hosed' and either I am not agreeing fast enough so you are trying to get rid of me or I am some kind of a thorn in your side in your efforts to get other people to think this so you are trying to get rid of me.

          If you want to get rid of me, Colorado is the Shiznit, you only need to ask me to leave Daily Kos.

          A man abstemious, rigidly upright, inflexibly honest, ferociously chaste. A man with every virtue, except humility and human kindness. - Ellis Peters

          by bluefaction on Thu Dec 02, 2010 at 04:55:39 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

  •  Uhh you do realize that the senate needs 60 votes (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    GlowNZ, Jerry056

    don't you? The Fillibuster is what is damaging the country and the senate.

  •  so when are kossacks (7+ / 0-)

    going to fight the republicans instead of the President?

    RIP Pike Miners We will never forget

    by GlowNZ on Thu Dec 02, 2010 at 03:57:54 PM PST

    •  Why don't you ask Obama that (11+ / 0-)

      "We have to deal with the world as we find it." The rallying cry of Vichy Dems.

      by Paleo on Thu Dec 02, 2010 at 04:01:23 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  I guess (8+ / 0-)

      when he stops fighting us.  Unlike him, we do fight back.

      The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people. - 9th Amendment

      by TracieLynn on Thu Dec 02, 2010 at 04:02:33 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  you know that i'm not like that, GlowNZ (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Jerry056, DollyMadison

      A man abstemious, rigidly upright, inflexibly honest, ferociously chaste. A man with every virtue, except humility and human kindness. - Ellis Peters

      by bluefaction on Thu Dec 02, 2010 at 04:07:09 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  They are too coward to fight the Republicans (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      moonpal, DollyMadison

      Instead they are willing to join with them to tear down the President. Like Hamsher joined with Norquist to defeat Obama's HCR bill. Kossacks are now touting Lindsay Graham's "advice" that Russ Feingold should primary Obama in 2012.  Many of them are also floating the idea of a Jeb Bush Presidency.

      •  this diary is not written by any of those people (4+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        TracieLynn, lgmcp, blueoasis, DollyMadison

        so, please don't turn it into a fight about the people on this website fighting over the president

        A man abstemious, rigidly upright, inflexibly honest, ferociously chaste. A man with every virtue, except humility and human kindness. - Ellis Peters

        by bluefaction on Thu Dec 02, 2010 at 04:08:22 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  But you are echoing much of the sentiments (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          lgmcp

          expressed here, the idea that this president is not willing to work hard enough on behalf of the American people. That meme is as false as saying that the sun is cold. Do you realize that under this president, the congress has been the most productive in decades? President Obama is extremely demanding of this congress, but he doesn't appear that way outwardly.

          His goal is to push things forward and get things done. Not pose for the cameras and engage in  theatrics. That's for campaigning, and he'll do plenty of that in 2012. Right now he's about getting legislation passed, and doing the tedious, behind-the-scenes mundane work that is essential for any progress in Washington.

          •  hopefruit2, read my diary again (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            lgmcp, Hopefruit2

            if i complimented and defended the president anymore in this diary i would be BWD.  :)  

            but i have a criticism of the President.  it's not big, it's not permanent, but it's real.  

            he's not the only Democratic working hard.  i can't stand by and watch him blow what the House Democrats worked hard to do today without saying something about it.

            A man abstemious, rigidly upright, inflexibly honest, ferociously chaste. A man with every virtue, except humility and human kindness. - Ellis Peters

            by bluefaction on Thu Dec 02, 2010 at 04:29:48 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  Not Even the Slightest Criticism Will Be (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              TracieLynn, DollyMadison

              ...Tolerated! Some people on here remind me of "political officers" in a totalitarian state's army. Ready to attack any criticism, no matter how well intended, as "defeatism".

              •  no, they are weary (0+ / 0-)

                of the constant non stop attacks on the President that come from people who have never and would never vote for the President

                A man abstemious, rigidly upright, inflexibly honest, ferociously chaste. A man with every virtue, except humility and human kindness. - Ellis Peters

                by bluefaction on Thu Dec 02, 2010 at 05:17:52 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

            •  What exactly does President Obama need to say? (0+ / 0-)

              Does he need to say that Republicans hate the middle class? Does he need to punch them in the gut (rhetorically)? Slap them all in the face, right now, when he needs a certain number of them to vote with us on things like DADT, START, DREAM, and unemployment? Why jeopardize the chance for real achievement in order to satisfy some hotheads' urge to punch somebody?

              BTW, the crack about BWD is exactly what "those people" would say.

              Let President Obama be President Obama.

              by a night owl on Thu Dec 02, 2010 at 04:52:54 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  a night owl (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                DollyMadison

                i know that a lot of assholes give people shit for not dumping on the President.  so, i understand why you defensive, but Hope2Fruit knows that i am not one of those people.

                i don't want Obama to do anything but let the senate hold an up or down vote on the bill the house just passed that only provides tax cuts for the middle class.   then when they bitch about tax cuts(their only real popular position) he can remind the country of their no vote.  

                that's not asking for him to turn into john edwards.  

                A man abstemious, rigidly upright, inflexibly honest, ferociously chaste. A man with every virtue, except humility and human kindness. - Ellis Peters

                by bluefaction on Thu Dec 02, 2010 at 05:03:22 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  I'm simply asking you questions (0+ / 0-)

                  because I don't understand what you are asking of President Obama. Believe me, I wouldn't even bother if I thought you were an asshole.

                  You say you want the President to "fight," but we seem to have established that all you mean by that is for him to "let the senate hold an up or down vote." Well, I don't think he's stopping them from doing that, is he?

                  Let President Obama be President Obama.

                  by a night owl on Thu Dec 02, 2010 at 06:20:54 PM PST

                  [ Parent ]

            •  Bluefaction. This is how they react to anyone (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              DollyMadison

              who has a criticism of the President, however mild it is.

              I work with B2B PAC, and all views and opinions in this account are my own.

              by slinkerwink on Thu Dec 02, 2010 at 05:16:00 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

            •  Okay I re read the diary (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              DollyMadison, bluefaction

              and I see what you're saying. Thanks for your patience.

      •  Too cowardly to fight the Republicans? (3+ / 0-)

        That must be Obama you're talking about.

        "We have to deal with the world as we find it." The rallying cry of Vichy Dems.

        by Paleo on Thu Dec 02, 2010 at 04:09:05 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  What a bunch of BS (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        TracieLynn, Fabian

        Hamsher aside, the diarist and many like him (myself included) are more than willing to fight the repubs. However, its damn near impossible when our leader refuses to lead the fight.  We are not "tearing down" the president as you suggest. We are trying to spur him on.  But, yes, indeed, it is easy to slip into slight dispair when it all continuously goes unheard.

        Plus, why aren't you fighting the republicans. Instead you are willing to join with the Freepers, etc. to tear down the democrats/liberals on this site. You really should be more judicious in your use of the word "coward".

        "Just say no" prevents teenage pregnancy the way 'Have a nice day' cures chronic depression

        by glpaul on Thu Dec 02, 2010 at 04:48:27 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  Sorry, could you lend me your lenses? (0+ / 0-)

        because I'm not seeing what you are seeing.

        Show me the POLICY!

        by Fabian on Thu Dec 02, 2010 at 05:17:52 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

  •  If he won't lead and fight (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    bincbom, corvo, blueoasis

    he should just get out of the way.  I really don't know why he wanted to be president since he refuses to exercise the power of the office.  It would be one thing if he were the only one to suffer, but he's draging down his party and progressive public policy with him.

    "We have to deal with the world as we find it." The rallying cry of Vichy Dems.

    by Paleo on Thu Dec 02, 2010 at 04:04:18 PM PST

  •  Isn't there some internal contradiction here? (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    corvo

    you let it all go for nothing.  And yeah, you'll get the middle class their tax cuts and yeah, you'll do it so that there's still time for dadt but you could have run with this and gotten more.

    If middle-class cuts get made permanent, and billionaire cuts don't, I call that something, not nothing.  

    Yes, I take your point that a more driving hardline style at just this time might increase the leverage.  But the reality is that some concessions of some kind will have to be made in the Senate to get this passed.  

    I just don't see the beauty of making the Republicans go on record against the middle-class cuts.  People already know they're bald-faced enough for anything.  I see it as more important to get the decoupling done, even if the thresholds have to be adjusted upwards.  

    "The extinction of the human race will come from its inability to EMOTIONALLY comprehend the exponential function." -- Edward Teller

    by lgmcp on Thu Dec 02, 2010 at 04:07:28 PM PST

    •  no, he let the House vote today go for nothing (0+ / 0-)

      they voted only for middle class tax cuts.

      A man abstemious, rigidly upright, inflexibly honest, ferociously chaste. A man with every virtue, except humility and human kindness. - Ellis Peters

      by bluefaction on Thu Dec 02, 2010 at 04:09:29 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Right. And that bill will go to the Senate (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Jerry056

        where it will have zero chance unless the deal is sweetened in some way.  

        Passing a bill, even with concessions, as long as the concessions are not so huge as to negate the whole value ... is how lawmaking is done.  Just makeing the Republicans act like jerks, takes no skill at all.  Getting something done in spite of them, would be the real victory.

        "The extinction of the human race will come from its inability to EMOTIONALLY comprehend the exponential function." -- Edward Teller

        by lgmcp on Thu Dec 02, 2010 at 04:12:14 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Obama needs to make the Republicans vote no (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          slinkerwink

          or filibuster or whatever and make them live with this instead of letting them get away with a win that should be ours and they will use against us later

          A man abstemious, rigidly upright, inflexibly honest, ferociously chaste. A man with every virtue, except humility and human kindness. - Ellis Peters

          by bluefaction on Thu Dec 02, 2010 at 04:16:07 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  Sorry but you just keep repeating (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            corvo

            the same mantra, that it's important to make the Republicans look bad in a clear vote on the record.  They already look like exactly what they are, so trying to affect their image seems to me like a big old waste of time.

            Your diary shows that you seem shades of gray, and are prepared to accept some complexity.  Which is why it puzzles me that you stick with mantra above while making no effort to demonstrate why making R's commit to an evil vote would be MORE helpful to us, than actually GETTING A BILL THROUGH that accomplishes most of what we set out to do.  

            "The extinction of the human race will come from its inability to EMOTIONALLY comprehend the exponential function." -- Edward Teller

            by lgmcp on Thu Dec 02, 2010 at 04:24:46 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  it's not a choice between the two this time (0+ / 0-)

              the tax cuts will pass no matter what.  but we could have also turned the republicans bullshit strategy to take credit for them into making them take responsibility for voting against them.  policy and politics.  policy comes first, but that doesn't mean we forget about politics.  if we have the one then i want the other too.

              A man abstemious, rigidly upright, inflexibly honest, ferociously chaste. A man with every virtue, except humility and human kindness. - Ellis Peters

              by bluefaction on Thu Dec 02, 2010 at 04:31:49 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  "Will pass no matter what?" (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                corvo

                How ya figure?  The nuclear option won't happen, so what about cloture?  

                "The extinction of the human race will come from its inability to EMOTIONALLY comprehend the exponential function." -- Edward Teller

                by lgmcp on Thu Dec 02, 2010 at 04:36:47 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  they will pass with the rich cuts if neccessary (0+ / 0-)

                  there is no way Obama won't be signing a middle class tax cut by year's end one way or another

                  A man abstemious, rigidly upright, inflexibly honest, ferociously chaste. A man with every virtue, except humility and human kindness. - Ellis Peters

                  by bluefaction on Thu Dec 02, 2010 at 05:04:39 PM PST

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  Okay, I'll buy that (0+ / 0-)

                    but if the bill was kept to middle-class only, no way it would get through the Senate.  And no, I still can't see that as egg on the Republican faces.

                    Addomg SOME but not ALL rich cuts, is where Reid and Obama are signalling.  As always the devil will be in the details.

                    "The extinction of the human race will come from its inability to EMOTIONALLY comprehend the exponential function." -- Edward Teller

                    by lgmcp on Thu Dec 02, 2010 at 05:07:56 PM PST

                    [ Parent ]

            •  The Republicans look bad to me & you (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Fabian

              but, they don't look bad to a large number of those beyond the confines of DFA or DKos.

              They look effective.

              Not worthy and effective.

              Not desirable and effective.

              But, they do look effective.

              What the diarist is simply suggesting is that the Republicans get to pay a price, clearly understandable to those who don't watch the blood-sport of politics on a daily basis, for holding the middle-class tax cut hostage.

              The diarist has a perfectly fair point in stating that case.

              You keep harping back that no way, no how, can such a middle-class only tax cut bill pass. And, you are right, but that misses - entirely - the valid point being made.

              •  Their clearly-stated goal is to keep Obama (0+ / 0-)

                from getting anything done.  So if they can cause Obama's desired tax bill to utterly fail and die, they STILL look effective.  Not us, them!  

                Okay, the dead bill was a tax-cutting bill, which normally R;s are supposed to love.  But they'll just continue lying about that, and evidence suggests they'll get away with it.

                No, passing a bill makes US look effective.  Forcing a pure and immediate No vote just lets them show off, as usual.

                "The extinction of the human race will come from its inability to EMOTIONALLY comprehend the exponential function." -- Edward Teller

                by lgmcp on Thu Dec 02, 2010 at 04:45:27 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

        •  Sweetening is fine, but... (0+ / 0-)

          you say "as long as the concessions are not so huge as to negate the whole value".  That is exactly what we are worried and pissed off about.  If he extends the cuts for the millionaires, this negates the whole value. Sure, the middle and lower class get modest tax breaks. But at a cost of 600 billion dollars to the richest among us.  To me, that is so huge as to negate the whole value.

          "Just say no" prevents teenage pregnancy the way 'Have a nice day' cures chronic depression

          by glpaul on Thu Dec 02, 2010 at 04:54:38 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  Agreed. (0+ / 0-)

            Permanently extending the tax cuts for all the rich, WOULD negate the value, completely.  

            But extending them for people between $250K and $500K, wouldn't be so bad.  Pushing it up to $99.9K ... well, I don't much like it, but IF it worked it might even still be worth it there.   But I think I've read that 80% of the 700 Billion would still be saved even at that figure.  Because it's really the Waltons and the Buffets where the REAL money is.

            "The extinction of the human race will come from its inability to EMOTIONALLY comprehend the exponential function." -- Edward Teller

            by lgmcp on Thu Dec 02, 2010 at 05:05:11 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  Agree with the Agree (0+ / 0-)

              I can deal with a fudge from 250 to 500.  What I find obsene is tax breaks at this time for the super rich.  Unfortunately, I don't see this happening.  I think the republicans are serious that they will only accept a tax cut for "all" rich people.

              "Just say no" prevents teenage pregnancy the way 'Have a nice day' cures chronic depression

              by glpaul on Thu Dec 02, 2010 at 05:14:45 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

  •  The alley oop is sitting there (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    bincbom

    hanging in space. Spike it. Make them vote. Drag it out until New Year's Eve if you have to. Just this one time. After New Years nothing positive can possibly happen that needs a vote in Congress. There is no way, this is the last shot and the game ends. They are ahead by one with a few seconds left and the ball is just sitting there, defying gravity.

    We have only just begun and none too soon.

    by global citizen on Thu Dec 02, 2010 at 04:13:15 PM PST

  •  What should Obama be fighting for (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    DigDug, lgmcp, moonpal, Jerry056

    That word "fight" is much too overused on this site. This president was elected to govern. And the one who gets the most done eventually WINS the battle. Not the one who screams and yells and poses "bring it on!"  

    This president is not about scoring cheap political points or winning the next news cycle. He is about effectively getting the job done under a set of difficult circumstances.

    •  i think i made my very nuanced position clear (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      blueoasis

      i want president Obama 99.9% of the time, but he does have some responsibility to our party not to let the other party beat us down through him.  1% of the time i want him to counter punch the other party.  1% not all the time not half the time not even 10% of the time.  this is one of those times.

      A man abstemious, rigidly upright, inflexibly honest, ferociously chaste. A man with every virtue, except humility and human kindness. - Ellis Peters

      by bluefaction on Thu Dec 02, 2010 at 04:19:31 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  "Dem president signs Bush tax cuts." (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    corvo, blueoasis

    How's that for an inspiring lede?

    a spook who sits by the door

    by brooklynbadboy on Thu Dec 02, 2010 at 04:14:49 PM PST

  •  I'm not saying they're playing 11th Dimensional (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    lgmcp

    Chess, but for some reason I'm thinking that Nancy Pelosi & Harry Reid and the President are coordinating something here. The meeting with the Republicans that the President had, and his guys still negotiating with their guys--at the same time all this activity is suddenly happening in the House and Senate.

    While Boener and the Reps are screaming about the unfairness of what Nancy and Harry are doing, Gibbs is still "la la la la la...We are still negotiating, the Reps don't want to cooperate so we are still negotiating, lalalalalalala...."

    Meanwhile, things are going like warp-speed in the House and (maybe) now in the Senate, keeping the Reps off balance, confused as to their responses, and the White House is above it all. I just can't fathom that the President is not involved with what is going on with the Dems in Congress, and if the extension of the Middle-Class tax cuts separated from the higher-income cuts is going to happen somehow, maybe this is the only way.

    I'm no expert strategist here, but "Good Cop, Bad Cop" works in all sorts of situations, why not here?

    "Democrats. If they agreed with each other, they would be Republicans."--Will Rogers

    by DianeNYS on Thu Dec 02, 2010 at 04:19:03 PM PST

    •  If I never hear about chess or ponies again (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      shanikka, DianeNYS

      it will be too soon.  Of COURSE the White House is coordinating with Pelosi and Reid.  This sudden victory in the House is a good thing, and while victory in the Senate may not be as complete or swift, I have hopes that progress is about to be made.

      "The extinction of the human race will come from its inability to EMOTIONALLY comprehend the exponential function." -- Edward Teller

      by lgmcp on Thu Dec 02, 2010 at 04:34:54 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  I so agree with you :) (0+ / 0-)

        If I never hear about chess or ponies again it will be too soon.

        Which is why I said I wasn't saying it ;)  And, I also agree with the rest of what you said... When I first heard about what was going on in the House & Senate, and then heard Gibbs' statement, it didn't even occur to me to assume Obama was "caving to the Republicans again" or whatever. Everyone wants him to be stealthy and clever to outsmart the Republicans; maybe they just don't see it when it actually happens? :)

        "Democrats. If they agreed with each other, they would be Republicans."--Will Rogers

        by DianeNYS on Thu Dec 02, 2010 at 04:54:12 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Well in fairness his reponse did signal (0+ / 0-)

          wiggle room towards the Republicans, which folks here just go ballistic about.  But it seems to me that his strategy of continually offering olive branches which they predictably spurn, has been overall fairly successful.  The claim is always that tougher tactics would TOTALLY have gotten more, and maybe sometimes that's true -- but I severly doubt it's true all the time.

          "The extinction of the human race will come from its inability to EMOTIONALLY comprehend the exponential function." -- Edward Teller

          by lgmcp on Thu Dec 02, 2010 at 05:01:10 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  I think this mischaracterizes our position (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            PhilJD

            The claim is always that tougher tactics would TOTALLY have gotten more

            I have never seen anyone here express such a claim. Not even once, and I am one of those folks who is going ballistic about some of the olive branches. Have you really seen it always?

            I am not against him doing so on things where the Rethugs position is somewhere to the left of "We will destroy you all." Right now that is their position on everything.

  •  Have you sent this to the White House? (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    JeffW, bluefaction

    www.whitehouse.gov/contact

    Freedom has two enemies: Those who want to control everyone around them...and those who feel no need to control themselves.

    by Sirenus on Thu Dec 02, 2010 at 04:19:37 PM PST

  •  He's doing the right thing (0+ / 0-)

    He needs to be seen as cutting spending, not raising taxes.

    He also needs to be seen as compromising with republicans.

    To be honest, he'll be much better off when Pelosi loses power. Then he can negotiate  moderate policies with republicans and moderate democrats on fiscal issues, and and be an idealist on social issues.

    Fiscally conservative/social liberal is what voters want.

    •  Riiiiight! n/t (0+ / 0-)

      Float like a manhole cover, sting like a sash weight! Clean Coal Is A Clinker!

      by JeffW on Thu Dec 02, 2010 at 04:22:18 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  From a dialectic point of view (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      corvo, lgmcp

      Fiscally conservative/social liberal is what voters want.

      ...(and if we engaged in dialectics rather than debate) I think that's probably right. It's a vote for stability.

      Unfortunately, it's too late. We don't have the luxury of determining our own economic future anymore. America screwed the pooch when it cut taxes and raised defense spending in 2002. The nation is in a spin dive.

  •  Obama's giving pragmatists a bad name. (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    corvo, Lucy2009

    Really, we're not all wusses.

    I, for one, welcome our new hillbilly overlords.

    by Bush Bites on Thu Dec 02, 2010 at 04:23:55 PM PST

  •  Who are you talking to here? (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    corvo

    Buzz Lightyear?

    Are you saying you don't know how this story ends?

  •  Obama wants tax cuts for the rich. (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    corvo

    That's why he doesn't fight for his "agenda/position".

    Hasn't he made that abundantly clear to you yet?

    I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies. Thomas Jefferson

    by Lucy2009 on Thu Dec 02, 2010 at 04:38:50 PM PST

  •  Vote for Hillary next time. (0+ / 0-)

    I always suspected Obama didn't have the viciousness to win.

    •  i would have voted for hillary in 08 (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      DollyMadison

      if she had been the one running.  but i prefer Obama.  i have my criticisms here and there but overall i am very happy with him.

      A man abstemious, rigidly upright, inflexibly honest, ferociously chaste. A man with every virtue, except humility and human kindness. - Ellis Peters

      by bluefaction on Thu Dec 02, 2010 at 05:06:37 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  There Will Be No Fight (0+ / 0-)

    ..the tax cuts for everybody will be extended. The fig leaf will be that the top percentage cut extension will be "temporary" (a few years). So, the middle and lower classes will get their piddling tax cuts, and the wealthy will get their continued windfall.

    No need to even get excited about it. It's a done deal. See the front page article about the bipartisan negotiations.

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