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Written by an American expat living in the EU
Beck is at war with the progressive American dream and the progressive European dream of social justice! Beck is trying to convolute this with Communism. Don't let him.

Soros a prominent progressive supporter,and WWII survivor correctly identified America maybe on Verge Of Dictatorial Democracy slamming Fox & Beck. Also the mainstream German magazine the Spiegel published an analysis referring to Glenn Beck as a protofascist. Given Germany's experience with fascism we ignore these warnings at our own peril.

Spiegel:"Agitators like Glenn Beck are "nationalist, racist and proto-fascist," says Henningsen. They take advantage of the economic situation, almost the way the right wing intelligentsia did back in the Weimar Republic."
http://www.spiegel.de/...

 

FORBES: Soros Warns U.S. Could Be On Verge Of Dictatorial Democracy, Slams Fox, Glenn Beck

By broadcasting their extreme hatred of the progressive model of social justice, aren't Glenn Beck and the Fox news disinformation network by calling for an end to so called socialism now moving in the direction of proto-fascism, just as the analysis published by the German Spiegel magazine would indicate?

Isn't Glenn Beck and Fox news in particular attempting to paint the Obama administration as democratic socialists, just like in the European Union? In doing so aren't Fox news and Beck trying to convolute the progressive social justice agenda of the Obama administration and the European Union with a dictatorial communism of the former Soviet Union in a fantasy laden illusory vision conjuring up Orwellian overtones?!

Isn't that a proposition at tension with itself? Considering that every country in the European Union has universal medical access, whereas isn't Fox news/Glenn Beck/Tea Party illusory vision of America includes maintaining the status quo which is made of 59 million don't have any medical coverage, 132 million don't have any dental coverage, 60 million don't have any paid sick leave & 40 million are on food stamps. Whereas everyone in the European Union has medical coverage and some type of dental plan, paid sick leave, paid maternity leave, paid annual leave no matter what job they have. To convolute this model of progressive social justice advocated by the Obama administration and the European Union with a form of Orwellian communism, shouldn't this been seen as a proto-fascist Glenn Beck/Fox news and Tea Party disinformation campaign? Also aren't Glenn Beck's vitriolic scurrilous rants and railing against the Jewish born progressive supporter George Soros reminiscent of a proto-fascist rant?

Billionaire investor and philanthropist George Soros warned tonight in New York that the combination of Fox News, Glenn Beck, The Tea Party, and the ability of Americans to fantasize unrealistically about their political system might lead "this open society to be on the verge of some dictatorial democracy."

Soros mentioned George Orwell’s novel, "1984″ as a possible precedent for the kind of fantasies being promulgated in our culture today. Orwell’s "1984″ satirized the Communist system of absolute control over society and politics that prevailed in the Soviet Union until 1990.
http://blogs.forbes.com/...

Below is from Media Matters for America.

Exactly What Glenn Beck Lied About When Vilifying Soros
December 09, 2010 12:42 am ET

Glenn Beck demanded an apology from Forbes magazine for claiming that he has been "falsely vilifying" George Soros and said, "I'd like to know exactly what I lied about." Beck's attacks on Soros are, of course, demonstrably false.
http://mediamatters.org/...


http://www.newsweek.com/...

Below is analysis from the German magazine Der Spiegel regarding Glenn Beck. To reiterate, if we ignore the German experience of the last century, aren't we doing so at our own peril? Isn't this a serious issue?

"Full of Hatred:
The Tea Party, that group of white, older voters who claim that they want their country back, is angry. Fox News host Glenn Beck, a recovering alcoholic who likens Obama to Adolf Hitler, is angry. Beck doesn't know what he wants to be -- maybe a politician, maybe president, maybe a preacher -- and he doesn't know what he wants to do either, or least he hasn't come up with any specific ideas or plans. But he is full of hatred."
http://www.spiegel.de/...

Doesn't the quote below shows us how Glenn Beck really feels?

FOX's Glenn Beck:
"This president has exposed himself as a guy over and over and over again who has a deep-seated hatred for white people ... this guy is, I believe, a racist."
http://www.colorofchange.org/...

When we talk about real family values, one of the things we should be thinking about is that the Fox news, Glenn Beck, Tea Party led crowd whose hateful rhetoric is completely divorced of any family values. We see that in their attempts to maintain America as the only major industrialized country in the world that doesn't have job protected paid maternity leave required by law. Ask yourself what kind of family values are those in support of the American dream?

Paternity Leave / international comparisons

Did you know that 157 countries offer paid maternity leave?
Check out Wikipedia: "Parental Leave": there's a shocking chart which is an embarassment to the United States
Source: http://comet.lehman.cuny.edu/...

 

Let's take a look at how the French maternity leave policies work to support families as an earned benefit provided to working people. In doing so please consider the quote below.

Maternity Leave in France

CNN: Bindi Dupouy, an Australian living in Paris, and her French husband, just had their first child, a son born in the country.
Dupouy, a 28-year-old lawyer, got almost five months paid maternity leave from her company for the birth. She can take another seven months off beyond that -- a year total -- unpaid, if she wants, with her job guaranteed under French law.
http://articles.cnn.com/...

Let's take a look at how the German people view real family values in the type of paid maternity benefit protected by law that they provide to their citizens.

   

Maternity Leave in Germany
   German law is very generous when it comes to maternity and paternity leave. Mothers are allowed six weeks leave at full pay prior to the child's birth and eight weeks at full pay afterward. In the case of a multiple birth, 12 weeks paid leave is allowed. The mother or father is then allowed up to three years of unpaid leave to stay at home with the child. Recently, the German government initiated a program that allows direct subsidies to new parents (Elterngeld).
   Source: http://www.howtogermany.com/...

   Maternity Leave and Job Protection (Mutterschutz)
   Source: Federal Ministry for Family, Seniors, Women & Adolescents, Maternity Protection Guide 09.2005

   Adjusting to motherhood is made a little easier if you happen to be an employed woman working for a German company. You will actually be provided mandatory time-off from work, before and after childbirth. This is revelatory news for many English speaking expats. Basically the Mutterschutzgesetz, Maternity Protection Act of 1968 was instituted to ensure that expecting mothers are not discriminated against when applying for jobs and to provide them with added protection from being dismissed from work as a result of their pregnancy or arrival of their newborn child. This law actually goes well beyond that fundamental claim and provides much more.
   ------------------------------------------------------------
   Expectant mothers applying for employment are not required to make their pregnancy known before entering into employment.
   ------------------------------------------------------------
   Employers may not disseminate information about an employee's pregnancy to a third party.
   ------------------------------------------------------------
   Women are well protected from loss of employment due to dismissal - from the beginning of pregnancy until 4 months following childbirth

   Source: http://www.howtogermany.com/...

   

The Fox news crowd, Glenn Beck and the Tea Party, aren't they trying to convolute the social justice movement in the US and in the EU with some type of in part religiously motivated zealotry, equating the European Union with the Tower of Babel and a Godless vision of Orwellian dictatorial Soviet era communist fantasy, in order to prevent the American people from enacting commonsense legislation creating a European style social safety net in the United States for the American working class? This would include universal medical and dental that could never be taken away. Paid sick leave, paid annual leave for all workers, even to include the unemployed as a human right, which would include paid maternity leave by right of law. Something that US law presently does not require, but that every country in the EU has and in fact that the American working class should have in support of the American dream. That is why I support President Obama and the Democrats.  

Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it. Aren't we living under the threat of the death of the American Dream and loss of American democracy to the forces of proto-fascism to the chorus voice of Fox news, Glenn Beck/Tea Party proto-fascism?  

Originally posted to Democrats Ramshield on Sun Dec 12, 2010 at 05:16 AM PST.

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    sig... You just ran into a hardcore progressive who's just another working stiff with an MBA degree & therefore a vociferous labor union supporter [smile]

    by Democrats Ramshield on Sun Dec 12, 2010 at 05:16:51 AM PST

    •  Democracy: Majority rules with the rights of the (61+ / 0-)

      minority protected by law and custom.
      The republiKKKan demonization of all those with whom they disagree, amplified by hate radio and tv, and shrugged off by the for-profit press, is leading us down the road to evangelical/corporate/rightwing rule by an intolerant "majority".
      When the US Senate has 40 members representing only 5-6% of the population voting an extremely conservative agenda, you see a lack of democracy.
      From what I've read here, the majority of Americans favor ending the wars and want to keep Social Security and Medicare intact. Social Security operates on a 1-2% overhead and Medicare on a 3% overhead. These are well run programs but they are singled out by idealogues as their #1 enemy, while the occupation in Iraq continues as does the war in Afghanistan for no real reason and to no real good.

      •  And fox channel sent this sham as truth: (10+ / 0-)

        palin/little Graham and the horrendous!

        'Humanitar­ians' ALWAYS take their INHOUSE PRESS when delivering aide to victims.!!­!!..Right!
        Shameless exploitati­on of victims that need help by those that give nothing but presumed importance­.

        Franklin is NOT HIS DAD and the woman is a farce! WHAT DID THEY BRING THESE TRULY NEEDY PEOPLE? Besides a camera for their own self-promo­tion!

      •  Those 40-ish senators aren't *voting* an agenda, (14+ / 0-)

        they're creating it, leading it, and - astonishingly - succeeding in it largely by not voting.

        I may not have paid much attention in school during my formative years, but I was awake enough to know that this wasn't a part of any functioning democracy I can recall.  The course I took was called "Principles of Democracy", but the result I see these days is more like one person clearing an entire pool by taking a dump in it.

        If the U.S.A. had a T.O.S. the Teapublican Party would be in violation every damn day.

        by here4tehbeer on Sun Dec 12, 2010 at 08:52:06 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  The irony is.. (5+ / 0-)

        That America succeeded and became pre-eminent in the second half of the 20th Century because it instituted social reforms, GI bills, social mobility, welfare and the spreading of prosperity. Postwar Western Europe, thanks partly to the Marshall Plan and the Nuclear Umbrella, emulated American democracy. West Berlin, haven of hippies, corporation, welfare and enterprise was saved, funded and used against the Communist East as a showcase for the social benefits of democracy.

        That Beck thinks all these post war European achievements are socialistic and foreign, just shows how he doesn't understand history, nor the real reasons for American strength: a democratic dream of social mobility for all.

        Do you think the huddled masses yearning to be free arrived on Ellis Island so they could be ruled over by the autocratic super-rich?

        Moose Juice: Debate without Hate

        by Brit on Sun Dec 12, 2010 at 02:24:23 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Glenn Beck doesn't know who Prometheus is and (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Brit

          makes fun of that beautiful statue of him (the God who gave us Fire), because it is half naked, and makes no sense to Beck.  

          When a person who has an audience of over 30 million people, even a million, and he has no understanding of classical literature and the wisdom it possesses, he truly is out of touch with Civilization.  It is a travesty of epidemic proportion.

        •  To Brit - You're right (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Brit

          Beck doesn't understand history. It maybe worse, isn't he misleading his followers, as well as himself?

          sig... You just ran into a hardcore progressive who's just another working stiff with an MBA degree & therefore a vociferous labor union supporter [smile]

          by Democrats Ramshield on Sun Dec 12, 2010 at 03:31:37 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

    •  I have felt this way for a few years now (40+ / 0-)

      Saw what was happening under Bush, especially.  Bubble after Bubble transferred money upwards.

      Now, we have people who did not learn critical thinking in school but rather memorization.  This is what will keep China behind America for at least another generation, as they teach memorization.

      I was at physical therapy where some very wealthy clients were and I can tell you, they are upset with the Government and they say DO NOT TOUCH MY SOCIAL SECURITY or MEDICARE.

      There must be a revolt, not a tea-bagger one, but a real revolt by the workers of America.

      -6.13 -4.4 Where are you? Take the Test!!!

      by MarciaJ720 on Sun Dec 12, 2010 at 05:49:36 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  Thanks for posting this but there is one thing we (53+ / 0-)

      need to remember. There are more of us than them. They fear us because of that as they should. To control us they divide us and make us fight amongst ourselves over stupid stuff. We need to stop and pay attention.

      •  Thanks gorilla for reminding us (13+ / 0-)

        that the numbers are with the rest of the nation..it is just that the corporate owned media get cudos for reporting on the fox channel dog and pony show..without bothering to FACT CHECK IT===SO THE MSM IS COLLUDING WITH THEM!

        •  Soros is right (12+ / 0-)

          Media consolidation in the 90's gave us Faux News and the conservative loving Corporate Media. And the activist right wingers on the Supreme Court (Citizens United) made sure that more than likely we will never have another Dem majority or Dem president again after 2012.

          Welocome to Idiot America, people. I hope you like right wing fascism.

          "He's the one, who likes all our pretty songs. And he likes to sing along. And he likes to shoot his gun. But he knows not what it means" - Kurt Cobain

          by Jeff Y on Sun Dec 12, 2010 at 10:23:36 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  What we already have is "Managed democracy"-- (7+ / 0-)

            democratic in form but oligarchic and authoritarian in substance.

            It's hard to fight precisely because it's not overtly fascist.

            It even has a "popular" base in religious nationalism and anti-immigrant sentiment.

            Unlike fascism, its primary purpose isn't relentless militarism (it understands that the masses have declining patience for endless war). Its primary purpose is to mask the massive transfer of wealth from society to a small elite.

            American advisors helped Eltsin build a managed democracy in post-Soviet Russia. That experience proved valuable for completing the construction of managed democracy here in the US.

            •  Everything you say is true (5+ / 0-)

              except for the endless war part. For the most part, ever since Bush Jr took office we have been at "war" with no end in sight. This is the payoff to the Military Industrial Complex.

              "He's the one, who likes all our pretty songs. And he likes to sing along. And he likes to shoot his gun. But he knows not what it means" - Kurt Cobain

              by Jeff Y on Sun Dec 12, 2010 at 11:49:47 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  War and the Managed Democracy (3+ / 0-)

                Fascist regimes live for war, and use war for total social mobilization. (Nazi Germany, North Korea).

                The managed democracy finds political value in frequent low-level wars in order to keep its military-industrial complex satisfied (or to rack up deficits that make it impossible for society to demand more spending on social needs). But it avoids large-scale protracted war requiring massive sacrifice. It tends to move on from wars that cost it more than a few thousand casualties, as these generate controversies that make democracy harder to "manage" and wrench the masses out of passivity and political stupefaction.
                 

          •  to Jeff Y - At the moment it seems the primary (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Jeff Y

            mission of Fox news and talk radio is to defeat Obama, take control of the Senate and to sell commercial advertising space; rather than to try to be an honest news network, whose intent it is to practice broadcast news and journalism with integrity. How do you and some of our other readers feel about that? Also I think we'd do well to remember that the other networks such as CNN are also infected with right wing bias. I think we'd do well to remember that Glenn Beck came to Fox news from CNN.

            sig... You just ran into a hardcore progressive who's just another working stiff with an MBA degree & therefore a vociferous labor union supporter [smile]

            by Democrats Ramshield on Sun Dec 12, 2010 at 01:03:19 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  Excellent point (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Jeff Y

              and just as FOX ratings become a flag for CNN to take, they tack further to the right.

              It's an ugly cycle honestly.

              90% tax on all income over a million or more: a simple solution to funding Healthcare Reform, extending Social Security benefits and other budgetary concerns.

              by DelicateMonster on Sun Dec 12, 2010 at 02:43:07 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

      •  True, but they have Murdock on their side (7+ / 0-)

        Rupert Murdock is such a divisive figure that the British were not inclined to extend to him the sort of monopoly control over newspapers and television he sought, so he pulled up stakes and moved to the US, where he became a citizen and began to build an empire based on yellow journalism and rabble-rousing.

        On a list of what our country needed, that would not have been at the top of my list.  Hiring Roger Ailes as his propagandist in chief?  Whew, that's like hiring the Prince of Darkness to be your Nanny.  The results are fairly predictable.  The only bright spot on the horizon is that Murdock's children appear to be far more reasonable than old Dad.  Murdock will almost certainly not live forever.  I wish him a conversion to reason, but if that miracle does not happen I am afraid we will simply need to wait him out before Fox News stands any chance of actually becoming "Fair and Balanced".  It is a bold slogan, too bad it is nothing more than hogwash at this point in time.  But nothing lasts forever, either good things or unfortunate things.  The only thing one can be sure of is change.

        In the meantime, good for der Spiegel and Soros for calling a Beck a spade.  It it acts like a proto-fascist, if it talks like a proto-fascist and it walks like a proto-fascist, it just might not be a "patriot".  It might be something very different and a lot more dangerous to our society.  I vote for Door number Two.

        •  To arthura - Thanks for that thoughtful comment (0+ / 0-)

          Perhaps if your time permits you or some of the other readers would consent to telling us a bit more about how you feel and why you feel the way you do.

          Thanks also for the support.

          sig... You just ran into a hardcore progressive who's just another working stiff with an MBA degree & therefore a vociferous labor union supporter [smile]

          by Democrats Ramshield on Sun Dec 12, 2010 at 01:18:17 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

      •  I agree. There are more of us (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        bablhous, historys mysteries, yowsta

        it just seems like more of them because that is all we see.

        "Forget all tax cuts. Let them expire. I'll pay 800 or 900 hundred more so the rich pay 100,000 or 200,000 more " - Crazy like a fox

        by voracious on Sun Dec 12, 2010 at 08:55:25 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  To voracious - I think (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          bablhous

          that's a good reason for us to stick together. I think progressives need to do more to support each other, more cooperation and less infighting. Do you and the other readers agree with that?

          sig... You just ran into a hardcore progressive who's just another working stiff with an MBA degree & therefore a vociferous labor union supporter [smile]

          by Democrats Ramshield on Sun Dec 12, 2010 at 01:20:59 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

      •  one should always be vigilant (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        yowsta

        but these kind of arguments that we are "on the verge of dictatorial democracy" whatever that means, are not particularly useful or accurate.

        It gives folks like Beck and Fox too much power.

      •  More of us than there are of them? (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        bablhous, drewfromct, indres

        Not necessarily-- it depends on where you live. Here in Texas there are a lot more of them, and if federal government gets any weaker they'll be able to do what they want to us.

        •  Actually there are more of them here that (0+ / 0-)

          voted. We just didn't get the turnout we needed. At any rate, the $25 Bil budget deficit is about to hit the fan, next year, and the idiots in the State legislature are not going to be able to handle it, and they're going to over-reach, if they do what they've promised, so Texas may be in for a big change. Too bad we couldn't get Bill White in though.

      •  But we aren;t organized (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        drewfromct

        And are largely passive, and any attempt to get us organized will be attacked.  Not to say it can't be dfone, just that we have to be creative and active.

        The scientific uncertainty doesn't mean that climate change isn't actually happening.

        by Mimikatz on Sun Dec 12, 2010 at 11:59:33 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  Actually, Mr. Gorilla, we need at least one or (0+ / 0-)

        two more of you, Gorillas in the room, and things will change rather quickly.

    •  Okay... (20+ / 0-)

      Then how about Soros giving us a News Network as powerful as Fox? Talk is one thing, but action is another. You know, Mr. Soros, it's about time that we could use your help in real practical terms. Or help us form our own brand of a Tea Party movement, just like the Koch brothers, et. al. did for that grassroots organization. Time is of the essence now.    

      •  And what companies would advertise... (12+ / 0-)

        ...on this news network?

        Fox's agenda is also the corporate agenda. So Murdoch doesn't have to pay all of the bills himself.

        Barack Obama: Ignores his legal obligation to prosecute people who tortured prisoners to death. Good at photo ops, though.

        by expatjourno on Sun Dec 12, 2010 at 07:03:34 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  response starts at the community level (10+ / 0-)

          many blue communities give the becks and limbaughs a free speech free ride on their local megastations that hide their propaganda behind local sports and other programing.

          you're right the left won't get a fox equivalent, but fox is a decoy. this crap starts at the local limbaugh/beck radio stations, and too many of those in blue communities are treated as if the continuous high volume racism, hate and global warming denial are no big deal and legitimate expressions of individual free speech.

          Progressives will lose all major messaging battles until they picket the limbaugh/hannity megastations and boycott those stations' local sponsors.

          by certainot on Sun Dec 12, 2010 at 07:14:17 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  Right (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Matt Z, Dirtandiron

            Indeed, Community level alliances are paramount. Local news is also one of the best ways to message the voting public.

            •  and for many large communities the megastations (0+ / 0-)

              have a heavy influence on local media, pushing stories of local dem corruption while ignoring republican corruption, for eg. and that is an innocuous eg.

              often the local blowhards push national memes as instructed nationally. they might mix in a rating of local pizza but the local blowhards know their jobs are a lot easier if they reinforce the national talkers and do what the local and national GOP wants. those huge audiences influence/police local media. hell the local media will also listen to those stations to get their traffic reports and sports, for that matter.

              Progressives will lose all major messaging battles until they picket the limbaugh/hannity megastations and boycott those stations' local sponsors.

              by certainot on Sun Dec 12, 2010 at 08:44:13 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

            •  our local news (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              bablhous

              and many are affiliated with the corporate networks who have no interest in doing anything but scaring the pants off people locally. they dumb the voting public down and pump their own local version of fear.  They may not be fox cable but they sure as hell tow the line for the corporate mind killing agenda that benefits their owners and their sponsors. Real new is hard to find and relegated to channels with little resources and few have the time or inclination to seek them out.  

          •  The left is (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            certainot

            too busy fighting each other and trying to find a candidate for 2012.

            Why do Democrats shoot themselves all the time?

        •  Expat (3+ / 0-)

          They'll be companies...just like there are here at Dkos.

        •  Murdoch funds FOX with his profitable media (14+ / 0-)

          Most of Murdoch's propaganda divisions are not profitable. For example, the New York Post has been a HUGE money loser for years, but he uses profits from his movie and other media (some of it, on demand pornography) to fund it. The same for FOX news. I believe that it is not very profitable, but he funnels money into it from other divisions. This is why media monopolies are dangerous. On their own,  the propaganda arms of his empire probably would have failed their own standards of the free market long ago, but, tied into a monopolistic media empire, they thrive. The problem for starting a liberal counterpart to that is that it would have to be part of a larger organization that could absorb it's losses if it were to "compete". That, of course, would be in direct contradiction to one of the very causes that a liberal media outlet would want to espouse. I don't think it is possible to have a liberal counterpart to FOX until the playing field is leveled, ie: undoing Murdoch's monopolistic wavers, such as the one that allowed him to have ownership of the New York Post and local television stations in New York City, just to name one example. (Thanks Mario Cuomo).Ironically, just after then Governor Cuomo lobbied for and obtained a waver for Murdoch, Murdoch turned on him, and endorsed George Pataki for Governor.

        •  Hardly any big name companies advertise on Beck. (0+ / 0-)

          Life is good. Injustice? Not so much.

          by westyny on Sun Dec 12, 2010 at 09:51:42 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

      •  Murdoch started out in the 1950's (5+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Lawrence, sunbro, blueoasis, Matt Z, dorkenergy

        with a newspaper (he acquired it from his father I think).

        Murdoch spent 30+ years building up his media empire there and then he transferred here to the US in the 1980's when Reagan was stripping this country down. They went hand-in-hand.

        Clinton must have just ignored or discorded any threat from Murdoch when he signed the 1996 Telecommunications Act. That legislature intended to break up and decrease monopolies. The focus was on the emerging internet companies and wireless communications.

        Someone also slipped in the elimination of media ownership regulations which turned Murdoch and Clear Channel loose.

        Soros isn't a newspaper guy. He does what he does very well. No reason to bring him into the blame game here.

        Al Gore and any number of Democrats are working to establish democratic media outlets.

        <div style="color: #a00000;"> Our... constitutional heritage rebels at the thought of giving government the power to control men's minds. Thurgood Marshal

        by bronte17 on Sun Dec 12, 2010 at 07:38:15 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Bronte (6+ / 0-)

          There is no blame being assigned by me. Rather, it's a plea for help. Also, no one would expect Mr. Soros to run a news operation; however, I'm sure he could find people very willing and very capable of doing exactly that. Please think...before you give up so easily. Indeed, please have some real audacity of hope.

          •  There are some democratic liberal media outlets (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            bablhous, markthshark

            in the pipelines if I'm not mistaken. Soros may be giving a hand... I don't know.

            I didn't mean to cast blame toward you. My words are just too tough sometimes... and I don't mean it to sound like it comes out. It's just that we cry for Soros every time we turn around and want to move mountains overnight and it doesn't exactly work like that.

            And... heh... I'm not remotely giving up. But, I don't like that audacity of hope stuff. Hope waits for someone else to do the work. That's not my style. You want something done, you do it. Plain and simple.

            <div style="color: #a00000;"> Our... constitutional heritage rebels at the thought of giving government the power to control men's minds. Thurgood Marshal

            by bronte17 on Sun Dec 12, 2010 at 04:29:09 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

      •  OK Major, who do we know that could start a news (0+ / 0-)

        network from scratch?  Ted Turner perhaps

        Would this be a "real" news network, free of all partisan influence?  How do we fund it, assuming a generous benefactor would fund the start up?

        As Madeline Albright has said, "I'm using the Socratic method of an educator." (-;  

    •  This is stupid (0+ / 0-)

      Anybody really believe a bunch of people in power chairs, with an age range of mid-40s to late 60s, are going to up and seize this country violently? Yeah, right. They're proto-fascist in their ideology, but they can't do much except vote and stamp their feet.

      Their power peaked this year because they're aging. A lot of them will be dead in ten years.

      Mel Gibson makes movies that look like snuff films shot by Abercrombie & Fitch's photographer. -9.38, -5.18

      by Nulwee on Sun Dec 12, 2010 at 08:14:54 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Revolutions in thought and theory ignore age (3+ / 0-)

        It is often the older and the more unhappy who rage, rage against the existing social and political systems, harkening back to a rosy and often unrealistic view of how much better things used to be, Gol-dang it!

        The young, the ones who take to the streets in a violent revolution, are usually to busy trying to get laid and have a good time to be writing polemics.  Okay, Jonah Goldberg is an exception, but does he strike you as exactly "normal"?  He is the exception that proves the rule.

        No, the danger of doddering and angry old men spewing hate, or fostering hate in the case of Fox News, is very real.  Beck states publicly that he considers himself an "entertainer", not a news analyst.  I guess it comes down to one's taste in entertainment.  If he makes you laugh (and as a recent would-be-killer said, an "educator") then I guess that is your cup of poisoned tea.

        But the rest of us need to think and assess and speak up about what we are seeing and what we consider to be so wrong with it.  I applaud Soros for his comments.

        •  Just because Beck's dangerous (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          indres

          we're on the verge of dictatorship?

          Sorry, most of the tea party constituency (since there's not much difference between the TP and Glenn Beck's viewers) are not simply old but feeble. The Nazis had strong youth support but you don't see that for fascists here.

          Kos? Really? Can someone else please come in and debate this? ...Armando?

          Mel Gibson makes movies that look like snuff films shot by Abercrombie & Fitch's photographer. -9.38, -5.18

          by Nulwee on Sun Dec 12, 2010 at 08:48:54 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  What is a dictatorship? (0+ / 0-)

            when a vast majority of the public believes that the tax breaks for the rich should expire and we do not do it. What is that? A democracy?

            Voting for a Republican is like letting the fox in the hen house and expecting to have fried chicken for Sunday dinner- John Lucas

            by Jlukes on Sun Dec 12, 2010 at 10:02:50 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

          •  But they vote and put RW repubs in (0+ / 0-)

            most of the tea party constituency (since there's not much difference between the TP and Glenn Beck's viewers) are not simply old but feeble.

            The feeble vote and the young generally don't resulting in the corrupt fascist leaning leadership we have today.

            "Sisters, brothers and the whities, Blacks and the crackers, Police and their backers, They're all political actors"--Curtis Mayfield

            by Cynic in seattle on Sun Dec 12, 2010 at 11:01:04 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

      •  Life expectancy in the US (4+ / 0-)

        Every study that shows life expectancy dropping in the US is a study in, if not natural selection, at least something close.  We have a broiken health care system, poor nutrition and a terrible food industry.  Poor health care and infant mortality amongg poor people accounts for some of it, but I can almost guarantee that life expectancy is going to be levelling off and probably dropping in the future for middle and even upper income people as well because of poor eating.  Many people won't live as long as previously.  

        The scientific uncertainty doesn't mean that climate change isn't actually happening.

        by Mimikatz on Sun Dec 12, 2010 at 12:30:05 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  This is important (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          bablhous

          We're also way behind an astonishing number of countries in infant mortality, and very interestingly, in height.  ALL groups of Americans are shorter than their European counterparts and Blacks in particular are losing height.  There are important correlates with that - specifically lower educational and economic achievement.  And yet, the big lie is that Europe is a "dying society." The truth is, we are slipping in so many areas.
          Also, two things about Hitler.  He did not have majority popular support to come to power - between 30 and 40% at best.  And a great financial boost came from the wives of the wealthy industrialists of Munich and elsewhere in Bavaria.  Anyone who dismisses the Tea Party and the oligarchs does so at their own peril.

        •  To Mimikatz - Quick question (0+ / 0-)

          Yes but do you agree that we would still benefit from having a universal health care system in America?

          sig... You just ran into a hardcore progressive who's just another working stiff with an MBA degree & therefore a vociferous labor union supporter [smile]

          by Democrats Ramshield on Sun Dec 12, 2010 at 03:38:33 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

    •  Jumping into (9+ / 0-)

      the Tip Jar with a reading recommendation, because a lot of the comments are about "how in the world can people believe that stuff?"

      Read Matt Taibbi's The Great Derangement. He goes into some detail about the collective mind-washing that occurs in Hagee's Texas megachurch (and by extension the "Christian" right), and it is stunning and terrifying to anyone who believes in critical, rational thinking.

      That's what we're up against.

      One of the advantages of being disorderly is that one is constantly making exciting discoveries.--A.A. Milne

      by Mnemosyne on Sun Dec 12, 2010 at 08:18:08 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  You didn't have to go so far.... (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      bablhous

      with this diary.  The first half was sufficient to draw the parallels between Beck/Fox and the neo-fascism that is parading around wrapped in the flag.

      We're done being a Democracy. We'll pass through this coming era of plutocracy into more and more of an oligarchal semi-dictatorship until we finally end up as a total dictatorship run by corporate America plutocrats.  This situation will, of course, foment the next revolution.

      See you at the barricades.

      "Have a beginner's mind at all times, for a beginner knows nothing and learns all while a sophisticate knows all and learns nothing." - Suzuki

      by dolfin66 on Sun Dec 12, 2010 at 09:34:03 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  And make no mistake... (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      bablhous, Cynic in seattle, indres

      ...Glenn Beck is part of the muscled arm of corporate fascism. I was on a long drive this weekend and listened to Rush Limbaugh. Not coincidentally, he too was calling Democrats and progressives racists because "we would never disobey a white Democratic President, they way we were dissing Obama".

      Say what you want, these guys really know how to stay on message.

      -7.5 -7.28, Democratic Socialism...It's not just for Europeans.

      by Blueslide on Sun Dec 12, 2010 at 09:35:34 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  Social Democracy: Happiest Countries (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      bablhous, markthshark, indres

      Jeffrey Sachs Agrees

      I think we are free falling into the Rubicon.

      And we are being pushed into the Rubicon by our leaders.

      It is simply sad.

      It's difficult to be happy knowing so many suffer. We must unite.

      by War on Error on Sun Dec 12, 2010 at 12:05:33 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  We are seeing this problem become very serious (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      aliasalias

      down here in Texas. We have a full blown theocratic fascism manifesting itself down here. One of the major contributors to the Beck program, David Barton, is a discredited con man promoting Christian Reconstructionist ideas, and he's been a consultant to the far right wing Texas STate Board of Education in their efforts to rewrite the history of the country, claiming that the country was founded as a "Christian Nation".

    •  I found this at the "Veterans Today" website... (0+ / 0-)

      It's mildly amusing... and kinda scary.

      GORDON DUFF: MUSINGS ON TEABAGS AND "PROTO-FASCISM"

      WHAT IS PROTO-FASCISM, DO I HAVE IT?  HOW CAN I BE CURED?

      Education is always a cure for proto-fascism, a disease of the cerebral cortex that blocks rational thought and filters all sensory inputs.  It is usually fatal, if not treated quickly.  As with addictive disorders, alcoholism, sex addiction, Mormonism and  Christian Zionism, proto-fascism is perpetuated by denial.  Proto-fascists are only fascists on weekends or "binge" fascists.  Some can still hold jobs, maintain primitive social relationships, usually "toxic" but, in general, are dependent, continually fearful, constantly blame others and fail to take responsibility for their own actions.

      When "banksters" and "neo-cons" gut Constitutional freedoms, crash the economy, flood the country with drugs and illegal aliens and start killing off an American generation with continual wars, "proto-fascists" blame homosexuals, "liberals and elitists" or go into delusional rants about having the guns they can no longer afford to own taken away.  Walk up and down the aisle’s at any gun show, guns may be important but when the choice is keep the guns or let the truck be repossessed, the guns are history.

      HOW DO I KNOW I AM GETTING BETTER?

      Getting better is like waking up from a nightmare and finding you have been sleeping in your own excrement.

      When you have washed yourself off and tossed the sheets into the trash, step one is to head to the cable box, go to "favorite channels" and remove;  Fox News, CNN, MSNBC and any of the "Christian" stations.  Then head to the computer, find your favorite places and delete everything that doesn’t help contain pornography or advice on fixing your truck.

      Then get a new email account.  Remember how you got sick in the first place and that you had read, literally hundreds of emails making claims proven to be utterly false.  Remember what happened in Nazi Germany, a culture was built on propaganda and pretty-soon you find yourself standing in the snow in Russia.  "Yesterday I couldn’t spell gulag and now I live in one."

      The history of the CIA's involvement with the American press continues to be shrouded by an official policy of obfuscation and deception -- Carl Bernstein

      by markthshark on Sun Dec 12, 2010 at 06:22:49 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Thank you for posting.... (8+ / 0-)

    ....it is important to have a different perspective. I appreciate your diaries.

    While calling others Nazis, in so many ways, Fox is the Das Strummer of a new Nazi movement. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Der_Stürmer

    by Forward is D not R on Sun Dec 12, 2010 at 05:20:12 AM PST

  •  Not Verge (24+ / 0-)

    We've been under that for awhile now and was clearly shown with the previous administration and the grip of obstruction by the extremist we pay as well as those that surround them outside of government!!

    Women say 7,000 a day, Men 2000plus, little sarah at around 28,000 w/no common sense nor idea's!

    by jimstaro on Sun Dec 12, 2010 at 05:22:48 AM PST

  •  I see what you're saying (14+ / 0-)

    But voting with the Democrats doesn't seem to be the answer as they are quite cozy with Wall Street, just look at Dodd. As long as there aren't any real true progressives, or people who are truly elected without being placed in position by corporations, we are doomed either way.  TARP was just the beginning and we're seeing it again with this tax bill.  Wall Street is pulling the strings and since Soros is part of Wall Street, he is seen as part of the problem.  Obama is part of the problem.

    There needs to be a new way, a new language, a new conversation how to address what's so clearly going on.  We're still talking "Republicans vs. Dems" and it's not the answer.

    I can't support Obama and the Democrats any longer.

  •  a little off topic as allways (0+ / 0-)

    but what happened to your diary from yesterday

  •  "proto?" nt (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    JohnInWestland, blueoasis, TofG, farbuska

    The true traveler is he who goes on foot, and even then, he sits down a lot of the time. Collette

    by barnowl on Sun Dec 12, 2010 at 05:31:15 AM PST

  •  Verge? (23+ / 0-)

    We already have a puppet government that transforms what is supposedly the people’s money into grand heists orchestrated by the most evil people in the world (war-profiteers, banksters etc.), who now want to impose "austerity" on the same people they have robbed.
    The only difference is a dictatorship has fewer puppets. But a dictatorial democracy? I think we’ve already got that.

  •  Democracy Among the Very Rich (7+ / 0-)

    Is Soros reading my comments?

    We are called to speak for the weak, for the voiceless, for victims of our nation and for those it calls enemy.... --ML King "Beyond Vietnam"

    by Gooserock on Sun Dec 12, 2010 at 05:58:46 AM PST

  •  Damn, I HATE to give Beck credit, but that's (10+ / 0-)

    kind of a witty visual observation (Tower of Babel).

    Besides that, my utterly brainwashed cousins informed me this Thanksgiving that George Soros is genuinely evil and terrifying.

  •  The only thing... (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    cardinal, Matt Z

    that I disagree with when comparing the US to Germany or France is that our populace is vastly more diverse than their cultures.  You can't assume population as a constant when comparing systems.

  •  the dream is dead (28+ / 0-)

    check out these stats

    Of people who made a paycheck in America last year, 66% made $40,000 or less.

    73 million people made $25,000 or less.

    tough to much dreaming on that sort of salary.

    http://www.mybudget360.com/...

    "I'll hold my nose and vote but I won't hold my nose and canvass or call or donate." Some Dkos Comment

    by onemadson on Sun Dec 12, 2010 at 06:07:24 AM PST

  •  About That "Those That Don't Know Their History" (15+ / 0-)
    thing. What's it called when they know their history but they repeat it anyway? Shouldn't that be criminal? I'm hoping like hell Wikileaks has something on Murdoch. If they do, now would be a really great time to release it.
  •  George Bush replicated Orwell (21+ / 0-)

    with the eternal war on terrorism.

    he was a dictator.
    he lost the election twice, but cheated the job away from qualified Democrats.
    with the help of Scalia.

    •  orwell said (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      bablhous, buckstop, blueoasis, Matt Z

      when war becomes endless it ceases to exist. While Bush started the wars we elected democrats to end them.

      and now afghanistan is maybe possibly not quite sure perhaps going to end in 2015. The democrats own that.  

      "I'll hold my nose and vote but I won't hold my nose and canvass or call or donate." Some Dkos Comment

      by onemadson on Sun Dec 12, 2010 at 06:41:23 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  If women don't have maternity leave it is their (19+ / 0-)

    own fault for not having married a millionaire!

    (at least that is the GOPosaur view)

    Then they came for me - and by that time there was nobody left to speak up.

    by DefendOurConstitution on Sun Dec 12, 2010 at 06:18:05 AM PST

  •  Not that I'd ever advocate a return to the 1950s, (22+ / 0-)

    but a male breadwinner in those days could earn enough money so that his wife could stay home with the children.

    Now, women have to work whether they want to or not.  A lot of women do want to work, of course; I confess that when my children were small I quite enjoyed going to work while they were in school.  Having no social network of stay-at-home mothers, my going to work not only helped out financially, it made me feel like a person instead of a mother/wife/maid.

    But of course, it wasn't easy.  Our business model is predicated on the male model of acquiring educational credentials, then working 50- or 60-hour weeks in order to prove one's worth and advance to management.  When women follow this line, it wreaks havoc with their prime child-bearing years.  By the time they get to their late 30s, many of them find they're infertile.

    But if they have children during the prime child-bearing years and stay at home with them afterwards, they never regain the professional status and salary they once had when they do go back to work.

    For a country that supposedly "reveres" motherhood, we certainly don't!  I think what conservatives "revere" is forced child-bearing so women can produce white male cannon fodder for unnecessary  wars.

    If we really "revered" motherhood, we'd have to institute social protections as they do in more civilized societies.  And there would be part-time professional work available so women could keep current with developments in the business world while still being home before 9 a.m. and after 3 p.m. for their children.

    Thanks for a fine diary, Dem. Ramshields!

    Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich.__Napoleon Bonaparte

    by Diana in NoVa on Sun Dec 12, 2010 at 06:19:36 AM PST

    •  The only caveat to this is (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Cynic in seattle

      we probably have too many people already...

      Donk is a poker term for someone who is really bad at "the game". Still, a poor choice in name I guess.

      by DonkSlayer on Sun Dec 12, 2010 at 06:53:59 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  So what's different? What's changed? (0+ / 0-)

      Why is it now impossible for a "guy" (or one woman, for that matter) to support a family?  Or even for a couple?

      I'd suggest that nothing much has changed distribution-wise except the tax code and "free trade."  That's why we suffer compared to pre-Reagan.

      Other ideas?  

      •  Many factors (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        bwren, Matt Z

        Primarily, the 1950s were a unique period in American history that probably could never be replicated.  We were the only industrial power left standing after WWII.  So we had 16 years of pent-up consumer demand (Depression + War), and all of the stuff we bought was made here.  The world was going to change regardless of our free trade and tax policies -- though those have certainly served to exacerbate the growing income gap.

        In Rand McNally, they wear hats on their feet, and hamburgers eat people!

        by cardinal on Sun Dec 12, 2010 at 07:40:56 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  This is true, but imo not a sufficient explanatio (0+ / 0-)

          n.  If it were then no other country would be able to offer its citizens a safety net, for example.  

          It looks to me that the real difference is that in the US the rich took (stole?) the money.  If you look at the numbers  believe it bears this out.

          A quick googling found these charts.

          •  Yes, I agree that the (0+ / 0-)

            divergence between our social welfare system and that of the rest of the industrialized world can only be attributed to our politics.

            In Rand McNally, they wear hats on their feet, and hamburgers eat people!

            by cardinal on Sun Dec 12, 2010 at 09:09:51 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

      •  the cost of living is way higher now (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        bablhous

        and wages haven't kept pace. That's what different.

        Husband looking for work in NoVA/DC! Skilled in web content manag. & Photoshop. Please email me at adorgan@hotmail.com if you have any leads!

        by fille americaine on Sun Dec 12, 2010 at 01:33:02 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

    •  Cheap-labor conservatives: (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      bablhous, blueoasis, Matt Z, turn blue
      # Cheap-labor conservatives don't like social spending or our "safety net". Why. Because when you're unemployed and desperate, corporations can pay you whatever they feel like - which is inevitably next to nothing. You see, they want you "over a barrel" and in a position to "work cheap or starve".

      snip

      # Cheap-labor conservatives oppose a woman's right to choose. Why. Unwanted children are an economic burden that put poor women "over a barrel", forcing them to work cheap.

      LINK

      makes sense to me!

      Faux News ruined my state

      by sc kitty on Sun Dec 12, 2010 at 07:48:28 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  this is a great diary...i wish/hope that (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    sunbro, TofG

    as the health care debate comes back we as progressives claim that employer based health-care is a way of suppressing our freedoms...it steals a mantra of the right and it has the added benefits of being true.

  •  Is that the capital (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    blueoasis

    I see hidden in the picture on the left?  

    The president is not a king. I'm glad Obama is not acting like one.

    by tarminian on Sun Dec 12, 2010 at 06:28:39 AM PST

  •  DR, great post... one of your best... (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    sunbro, TofG, Democrats Ramshield

    Glad to see you found your inner Elvis.  

    What we need is a Democrat in the White House.

    by dkmich on Sun Dec 12, 2010 at 06:30:12 AM PST

  •  Soros is a strong advocate of Open Society. (7+ / 0-)

    In open societies, government is responsive and tolerant, and political mechanisms are transparent and flexible. It is as opposed to closed society.

    The state keeps no secrets from itself in the public sense; it is a non-authoritarian society in which all are trusted with the knowledge of all. Political freedoms and human rights are the foundation of an open society.

    (Wikipedia)

    He was not involved in US politics until the Bush administration changed everything.

    George Soros, a student of Karl Popper, has argued that the sophisticated use of powerful techniques of deception borrowed from modern advertising and cognitive science by political operatives such as Frank Luntz and Karl Rove casts doubt on Popper's original conception of open society.[9] Because the electorate's perception of reality can easily be manipulated, democratic political discourse does not necessarily lead to a better understanding of reality.[10] Soros argues that besides the requirements for the separation of powers, free speech, and free elections, we also need to make explicit a strong commitment to the pursuit of truth.[11] "Politicians will respect, rather than manipulate, reality only if the public cares about the truth and punishes politicians when it catches them in deliberate deception."

    Soros is your basic liberal in nature - a witness to the "protofascism" of 2001-09.

    "The way to see by faith is to shut the eye of reason." - Thomas Paine

    by shrike on Sun Dec 12, 2010 at 06:33:49 AM PST

    •  More than your basic liberal (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      bablhous
      He's a passionate defender of open society, who has a better understanding of it then most, including many Popperians who think, unlike Popper himself, that open society and unfettered free markets are compatible. Soros knows better than that.
  •  Liberals Are At War And We Are Getting (13+ / 0-)

    stomped.  Who is going to save the American workers whether they want to be saved or not?  Someone has to stand up for workers' rights?  People forget that we did not always have a 40 hour work week.  Third world nationals work 12 hours a day for at least a year before they even can earn one day off.   Corporations are trying to make it where workers here go back to the 1900s before any kind of worker's rights.

    Are we going to fight big corporations and banksters so that workers don't lose the rights they have now, or we going to surrender w/o a fight?  I plan on fighting in whatever way I can even if it is just donating money to progressive/liberal causes.

    •  To rssrai - Thanks for that really great comment (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      bablhous, blueoasis, hooper

      You're absolutely right to say that we should each do what we can. The problem isn't that we don't do enough, the problem is too many do nothing.

      sig... You just ran into a hardcore progressive who's just another working stiff with an MBA degree & therefore a vociferous labor union supporter [smile]

      by Democrats Ramshield on Sun Dec 12, 2010 at 06:42:45 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Glen Beck is .... (6+ / 0-)

    Just a God-fearing, flag waving ‘merican.

    "When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross."
    Sinclair Lewis

  •  What is meant by dictatorial democracy? (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    cardinal, bablhous, BlueDragon

    How do you define "fascism"?

    We've been making a lot of fun of the goopers / teabaggers who are so caught up in calling Obama and librls "fascist socialist marxist communist ...ists" that they really make no sense. Now it looks like George Soros himself is struggling for a way to discuss his uneasiness at the weird turn we've taken here in the US. Well, I'm uneasy too. More than uneasy.

    But to discuss this, we ought to first figure out a way to discuss what's making us uneasy without descending to the teabaggers' use of ...isms.

    In short, WTF is a dictatorial democracy?

    •  The one we have now . . . where the identity (6+ / 0-)

      of the president - the stupid right wing one, or the articulate centrist one - is just window dressing . . . and the corporate overlords proceed on their merry way to making this planet Hell on Earth.

      "we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military-industrial complex" Dwight D. Eisenhower

      by bobdevo on Sun Dec 12, 2010 at 06:52:38 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  a system where voters are manipulated through (6+ / 0-)

      misinformation by leaders/dictators to cede their rights and privileges out of fear tactics, religion, tribalism, etc.

      "The way to see by faith is to shut the eye of reason." - Thomas Paine

      by shrike on Sun Dec 12, 2010 at 06:52:47 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  OK but ... (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        shrike

        you do realize, yes?, that Beck calls Obama a dictator. Beck says that the "American Dream" is in peril. Lots of people are saying it.

        The thing is, the wingnuts have a powerful propaganda machine in place right now. It's one thing to try to fight gooper propaganda if it is obviously lies.

        It's entirely another thing to try to fight if there is some grain of truth to it, and that grain of truth is what appeals to Beck's audience.

        We'll never defeat Beck or Fox if there's a grain of truth in their propaganda.

        And, btw, just what is the "American Dream"?

        •  Sure - but look at Beck's "solutions" (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          blueoasis, annominous

          That "Faith, Hope, and Charity" nonsense, a return to fake Constitutional values like a zero regulatory environment, Creationism and Apocalypse as universal truth, a disdain for science and intellectual, militarism - put them together and you get protofascism.

          To Beck the FDIC and FDA are signs of communistic collectivism - so there is a "grain of truth" to his claim.  This is a guy who calls food inspection "socialist", for crying out loud.

          And the American Dream is too vague to have meaning to me.

          "The way to see by faith is to shut the eye of reason." - Thomas Paine

          by shrike on Sun Dec 12, 2010 at 07:21:56 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

        •  I don't get this. There are many grains of truth (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          annominous

          in Beck's propaganda.  I don't want to erase them.

          For example, I do want my country to be more like Europe.  I do want a multicultural society.  I do want limits on wealth inequality, etc.

          The American Dream is that each generation can have more than the last.  Consumption-wise it's over, and they (we, too?) can't stand that.

        •  The RW has been using that tactic for (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          bablhous, annominous, barkingcat

          quite some time now:

          accuse others of doing exactly what you are doing in order to pre-empt and disqualify criticism of what they are doing.

          That's why Republicans are always screaming about "vote fraud".

          "The perfect is the enemy of the good." - Voltaire

          by Lawrence on Sun Dec 12, 2010 at 12:01:30 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

    •  It means we're not getting the outcomes we want (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      cardinal, Kickemout

      So democracy must be broken.  Same old tiresome stuff.

      "George Washington said I was beautiful"--Sarah Palin on Barbara Bush, as imagined by Mark Sumner

      by Rich in PA on Sun Dec 12, 2010 at 07:11:15 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  agreed. (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      annominous

      My field of political science has dozens of terms at its disposal to describe various governing systems and their hybrids.  But that ain't one of them.

      In Rand McNally, they wear hats on their feet, and hamburgers eat people!

      by cardinal on Sun Dec 12, 2010 at 07:42:50 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  I prefer the term "managed democracy." (0+ / 0-)

      Fascism would be much easier to fight.

  •  There are many paths to tyranny. (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Lawrence, sc kitty, Naniboujou, BlueDragon

    My only concern about diaries like this is that we shouldn't necessarily expect the Glenn Becks of the world to conform to the historical pattern of fascism....and we shouldn't let our guard down if and when they don't.

    Tell your Congressperson and Senators: Vote NO on the Obama-McConnell-Boehner Tax Giveaways!

    by GreenSooner on Sun Dec 12, 2010 at 06:53:26 AM PST

  •  Beck is the symptom, not the problem. (7+ / 0-)

    He makes money feeding the paranoia of folks whose little minds were already made up.

    It is better to light one candle than to curse the darkness - Eleanor Roosevelt

    by Fish in Illinois on Sun Dec 12, 2010 at 06:54:56 AM PST

  •  strange.. (4+ / 0-)

    These rightwingers are so easily led around by a leash. I honestly think they do not care at this point. They dont care what their people say, they wont denounce them, but they WILL come to Media Matters to repeat the same nonsense over and over and over again. Then they start again tomorrow like it never happend.

    These are the worst people. Just period. Ever. They have been brainwashed by some strange mechanism that allows them to consider all things not made by Murdoch to be evil and petty, but still somehow more powerful and wealthy enough to "cause a dictatorial democracy"

    They WANT that. They want to go back to the tea party times -- literally. They shut down science, they shut down schools. This made NO sense to me at first. I mean, how can you have a military who thinks caravels are a match for future weapons? For all the warmongers, they seem to neglect that science invented all this stuff.

    Nothing...NOTHING...these groups do is genuine. Everything is self-serving. Just like every cult, his followers are convinced of oppression despite the obvious evidence against it. Ive heard more than once a rightwing idiot yelling about some policy that they dont like, and BLAMING OBAMA. As if he had gone back in time five years, learned Bush's penmanship and wrote a fake signature. Im sorry, when it started in 2005..no, not obama.

    Remember when O'reilly would shriek "america hater" "why wont you say you lvoe america..?!" all the time a few years back? Fox has since been doing it even more, managing to make it so this happens: If the left talks about an unhinged candidate who failed, they are evil, horrible, sexist and anti-down syndrome and anti-love and anti-squeezykittens... O'reilly would cut off peoples mics and DEMAND they showed Bush respect, even if he was lying, under the claim that he was a war time president.

    Then Obama came. All of a sudden, the "treason" definition changed. Suddenly, Palin was off limits but not Obama. They spewed the same ultra-violent rhetoric they say comes from this site (and yet never link it..odd thing that.) They are doing the exact same THINGS they demanded liberals be charged with treason for.

    Any explination? HA. they'll just say you're lying. Any incoming charges? Nope. Any admission of over-reaction? GOD no.

    But Fox News is Super Serious business!

    I guess its okay if youre a republican.

    •  They start out the day with that "Foxy Friends" (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Lawrence, bablhous, RustyCannon

      ignorance-based backwash of the previous day's propaganda, and the "hits" just keep on rolling non-stop throughout the day and into the evening -- including the 15-20 minutes or so of actual news-like programming they manage to cram in amongst the "Socialist" / "Fascist" / "Communist" birther-deather-lifer caterwauling.

      Oh, and also too: the "War On Christmas."  I'm surprised they haven't opened up a prayer line and started hawking $50 Glenn Beckk prayer cloths and Hannity-blessed Victoria Jackson energy drinks.  Maybe O'Reilly could sell butterscotch anal lube?

      Remember: Rupert Murdoch / Fox News (and for that matter a great deal of modern media ClearChannel outlets) wouldn't even exist if there weren't millions of willing suckers rubes followers worshippers viewers to be led astray.  Tabloids, anyone?

      See also: organized religion cults.

      If the U.S.A. had a T.O.S. the Teapublican Party would be in violation every damn day.

      by here4tehbeer on Sun Dec 12, 2010 at 08:36:31 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  I'm considering starting a war on Christmas (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        here4tehbeer

        just so they'll have an actual enemy to fight. Not sure where to start though, as it seems that retailers have owned Christmas for decades. I don't have the energy to take on the retail industry.

        Suddenly I've changed from being a social liberal/fiscal conservative to sanctimonious purist.

        by RustyCannon on Sun Dec 12, 2010 at 08:45:52 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  They'll just change enemies. It's what they do. (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Lawrence, RustyCannon

          "Mosque Wars" got pushed to the side after the most recent election because it ceased to be a Weapon of Immediacy (and also to make room for the "War On Christmas" -- there are only so many broadcast hours in a day).

          After that fails (again) it will be back to the Murdoch Standardized 1st Quarter Outrage Calendar:  Democrat Homogays and other non-clergy child molesters who want to serve in the PATRIOTIC AMERICAN® military,  Sharia Muslim Valentine's Secret Law, and how WikiLeaks will bankrupt Social Security just as soon as they finish being fully responsible for nobody taking climate change deniers seriously.

          And also too, Poor Pitiful Palin and those Petulant, Perturbing Pundits who just won't leave her alone.

          Republicans sure do whine a lot, don't they?

          If the U.S.A. had a T.O.S. the Teapublican Party would be in violation every damn day.

          by here4tehbeer on Sun Dec 12, 2010 at 10:57:52 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

  •  Obama is AWOL on this. So are most Democrats. (10+ / 0-)

    And adopting right-wing frames on taxes, like Obama just did, to say nothing of continuing and expanding Bush's policies of imprisonment without trial, doesn't help at all.

    I certainly agree with Soros that the right wing is a genuine threat to freedom. Unfortunately, all Obama seems to want to do is find common ground with it.

    Barack Obama: Ignores his legal obligation to prosecute people who tortured prisoners to death. Good at photo ops, though.

    by expatjourno on Sun Dec 12, 2010 at 06:55:48 AM PST

  •  beck slightly crazier than rush, w/smaller audien (4+ / 0-)

    ce.

    beck's fox feast of crazy is only possible because we allow 1000 radio stations to set the table without protest.

    when the left finally challenges the radio, fox and the GOP will collapse.

    Progressives will lose all major messaging battles until they picket the limbaugh/hannity megastations and boycott those stations' local sponsors.

    by certainot on Sun Dec 12, 2010 at 07:03:09 AM PST

  •  "Family values" is just one more lie (6+ / 0-)

    that they use to co-opt and corrupt the system of social responsibility of this society.  The only family they care about is the one they have on Wall Street.

    -7.62, -7.28 "Hold fast to dreams, for if dreams die, life is a broken winged bird that cannot fly." -Langston Hughes

    by luckylizard on Sun Dec 12, 2010 at 07:04:01 AM PST

  •  Uh-oh, we're starting to see the Bad Soros (0+ / 0-)

    The one who thinks he's a seer, rather than a wealthy guy who wants the best for our country and for the world.  His brain trust, if he has one, should advise him to put a sock in it when it comes to oracular stuff.

    "George Washington said I was beautiful"--Sarah Palin on Barbara Bush, as imagined by Mark Sumner

    by Rich in PA on Sun Dec 12, 2010 at 07:10:40 AM PST

  •  Anyone with an ounce of intellect and sense knows (10+ / 0-)

    that Beck, Hannity, Limbaugh and Palin are all undereducated wild cards who now have power.  As usual, Teacherken, I honor you for a clear and thorough Diary commenting on America at the edge of the cliff.  I totally agree with you.  I have said on Kos many times the European Social Democracy model is among the most sustainable and workable in the modern world.  In addition, the dignity and honor of all of the people in the nation are maintained.  Universal health care, just wages, efficient and safe infrastructure (I am listing these in no special order), recreational richness, enjoyment of family time, good food/wine and celebrations of holidays - all of these are part of a social fabric that is needed for a society to work well and for citizens to continue to live full and happier lives.

    I have lived in Belgium and France.  I know how good their systems work(ed) (at least when I was there a few decades ago).  Everyone is aware that the French health care system is rated among the very best in the world.  I observed up close how Belgian and French families lived at a slower pace, worked fewer hours, lived graceful and happy lives and enjoyed conversation, meals, drinks, other social gatherings with one another.

    All of that has mostly been lost in the US over my lifetime.  My father was a Steelworker.  He was paid great wages in the '50's &'60's thanks to his union. Families did have more time to spend together.  The US is not a great place to live.  I have said this so many times that I know people are sick of reading it, but I would leave this country in a so called "New York minute" if I were under sixty.

    •  Where would you go? (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      bablhous, tommyfocus2003

      Our 33 year old daughter, once a strong Obama supporter but now angry at broken promises, is seriously talking about immigrating from the US with her husband and 13 month old baby.

      Where would you go, Tommy? I would like to share your answer with her.

      We are 65 and are exploring this same question. We have liked Austria, Costa Rica...Northeastern Vt. lol, after all, it's called the "Northeast Kingdom" and in some ways is a different world--even having a Vt. Gov. candidate (Dennis Steele) in the last election running on Vt. succession from the U.S.!

      "Of all enemies to public liberty, war is, perhaps, the most to be dreaded, because it comprises and develops the germ of every other. War is the parent of armies; from these proceed debts and taxes; and armies, debts, and taxes are the known instruments for bringing the many under the domination of the few." James Madison, the primary author of the Constitution

    •  To tommyfocus2003 - Thanks for the great comment (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      tommyfocus2003

      It is always a pleasure to read your well thought out remarks.

      sig... You just ran into a hardcore progressive who's just another working stiff with an MBA degree & therefore a vociferous labor union supporter [smile]

      by Democrats Ramshield on Sun Dec 12, 2010 at 03:49:49 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Thank you so much (0+ / 0-)

        I think if I had enough money and it were possible to make the move, my preference would be for the South of France - somewhere in Provence, or in another region near there where it is even less expensive.  I remember a poster here said she brought her mother to that region of France at an advanced age and her mother loves living in such a beatuiful and peaceful and friendly place.  I learned long ago that speaking French is important.  French is a lovely and hauntingly simple language (I love Rimbaud's poetry).

        I explored emigrating to Costa Rica a few years ago.  My VA Dr. in Tampa told me he has several veteran patients who live there but fly up to the VA here twice each year for checkups and Rx's. Not to mention the fact that a lot of the country is stunningly beautiful,

        PEACE

  •  I can't comment on this. (6+ / 0-)

    Because I don't have a THING to say about Beck that wouldn't be HR'd into oblivion.

    America legalized torture before they legalized marijuana.
    Take your stinking paws off me, you damned dirty ape!

    by xxdr zombiexx on Sun Dec 12, 2010 at 07:18:43 AM PST

  •  When we don't teach history... (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    bablhous, stagemom, blueoasis, RustyCannon
    we are bound...

    In my school district growing up, history was the one subject that did not have an "Honors" level course - it was the one course where all students mixed together, because the "Honors" kids (academically more advanced, not superior human beings) took basically all other courses with each other.

    Leaving that system aside, it's fascinating to contemplate the stupendous stupidity of making the one subject exception for Honors... history.

    How do you fight a political fight when you have to TEACH history before you can make your point? Welcome to politics in America.

  •  Obama is not an EU Social Democrat (7+ / 0-)

    I wish he were, but he is not. He is a moderate Republican -- a European equivalent might be Nick Clegg, though Clegg is probably well to Obama's left on social welfare issues. Obama's Nobel Peace prize was also awarded prematurely; one of these days, the Nobel Committee may find itself regretting the choice.

    As for Fascist tendencies in the US, I would urge Europeans to pay much more attention to our FEMA detention camps, and much less attention to paid propagandists such as Glenn Beck: actions speak much louder than noise. How likely do you think it is that a country would build a network of concentration camps and then never use them?

    I want the Republican Party to become so small that I can drown it in a bath tub.

    by CA TreeHugger on Sun Dec 12, 2010 at 07:22:34 AM PST

    •  But he would sign similar EU legislation if (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Lawrence, bablhous, Matt Z

      presented to him by Congress.

      "The way to see by faith is to shut the eye of reason." - Thomas Paine

      by shrike on Sun Dec 12, 2010 at 07:26:43 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Oh boy, wouldn't he though! (0+ / 0-)

        Someone who surrounds himself with people such as Austan "No-Single-Payer" Goosbee (A cabinet of rivals? Hilarious. The advisors closest to him form a virtual Neo-lib echo chamber) and someone who is far more beholden to the "Queen of the sub-prime lenders" Penny Pritzker for his very career than Bush (the Stupider) ever, ever was to "Kenny boy" Lay, is not someone who'd sign any such thing.

        Two years ago, yes, I could understand someone perhaps believing such a thing, but you really need to start taking your sigline to heart.

        Alito. Kennedy. Roberts. Scalia. Thomas.
        More important than ever: ERA NOW!

        by greeseyparrot on Sun Dec 12, 2010 at 10:10:03 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

    •  I have come to think of Obama as (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      melo

      the Tony Blair of America.

      A promising looking figure who inspired the working and middle classes to elect him only to leave most bitterly disappointed later.

  •  Dictatorship is antithesis of democracy (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    shrike

    So, I don't get the "dictatorial democracy" claim.

    Truth forever on the scaffold, wrong forever on the throne. - James Russell Lowell

    by Deep Harm on Sun Dec 12, 2010 at 07:23:16 AM PST

  •  I walked into a (8+ / 0-)

    Hudson News yesterday to pick up a magazine.

    The TVs where blasting. I mean loud.

    So I took my magazine over to see what was on.

    It was FOX NEWS.

    I told the manager that FOX NEWS was a propaganda station and we didn't like it so turn it off.

    He said sorry, Hudson News has a contract and he can't turn it off.

    I said sorry, no business from me, and handed him the magazine and left.

    This is who owns Hudson News.

  •  What you describe as a threat (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Jlukes, blueoasis

    I see as a fait accompli.

    Sigh.

    Obama, 2008: "Yes We Can!"
    Obama, 2010: "No, I Won't!"

    by Mehitabel9 on Sun Dec 12, 2010 at 07:37:18 AM PST

  •  It isn't that I don't believe GB is a nut-- (0+ / 0-)

    a waning, but still influential and dangerous one. It isn't that I don't believe he and his followers need to be watched.

    Rather, the tone of awe in diaries like this puts me off. Yeah, whatever George Soros says, we KNEW Beck was trying to paint European-style social programs as "communist." Does the diarist offer any new analysis, or possible new directions for activism? There are none that I see.

    Isn't this just the kind of attention the RW wants in this venue?

    It's here they got the range/ and the machinery for change/ and it's here they got the spiritual thirst. --Leonard Cohen

    by karmsy on Sun Dec 12, 2010 at 07:38:20 AM PST

  •  Beck is a buffoon (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Cynic in seattle

    The fascists are his employers, and their owners and the Republican party.

    A soft answer turneth away wrath: but grievous words stir up anger (Proverbs 15:1)

    by Boreal Ecologist on Sun Dec 12, 2010 at 07:38:28 AM PST

    •  We know that, but... (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Lawrence, Boreal Ecologist

      Every racist, bigot and theocrat loves HANNITY, LIMBAUGH, BECK and their various mini-me type haters

      , because

      they need the enabling to continue hating, so they can avoid the pressure to socialize like the rest of us have done.

      Being able to hear it's ok to be a bigot every day is worth a lot, if you are really a bigot!

      Those people, about 23 percent of us, will buy the product, watch the program, make the phone call, cast the vote, attend the program, and mail the letter, and do all of that while telling their friends.

      Count on it.

      He's only a buffoon to the healthy people, who have socialized and who understand that kind of discrimination is always wrong.

      That's how they make the money.  In every market everywhere, 23 percent of us need that shit, like ordinary, healthy people need food.

      IF THEY ARE GOING TO SCREW THE PEOPLE, MAKE THEM OWN IT. #opengeekorg

      by potatohead on Sun Dec 12, 2010 at 09:23:24 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  When Beck described TARP as the "birth pang" (3+ / 0-)

    of this crisis I knew he was purposely decieving people. TARP was the start of this crisis? How bout unregulated capitalism? Of course, according to Beck, it couldn't have been the free market. It must be the govt's response.

  •  Why Is Obama Joining Them? (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Jlukes, blueoasis

    Is it "If you can't beat them, join them"?

  •  Thank you for sharing the links to Der Spiegel... (5+ / 0-)

    I subscribe to it online and read it as soon as it comes into the "In Box".  I really appreciate the other opinions and writings from outside this country's MSM, and would suggest that others who read KOS, also subscribe/read this online pub. as it does shed light on just what other parts of the world are "doing" and thinking.

    We cannot, and must not live in a US national news media vacuum:  It is our responsibility to look at issues from many sides to get a better idea of the just what is going on in "our backyard".

    Hey Boehner and the Republicans: WHERE ARE THOSE JOBS YOU PROMISED????

    by LamontCranston on Sun Dec 12, 2010 at 07:54:47 AM PST

    •  other sources (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Lawrence, blueoasis

      include, but are not limited to, The Guardian, Asia Times, Dawn (Karachi), Le Monde. Also the UK's Independent is good, and has the added bonus of printing Robert Fisk, probably the most knowledgeable reporter on the Middle East.

      One of the advantages of being disorderly is that one is constantly making exciting discoveries.--A.A. Milne

      by Mnemosyne on Sun Dec 12, 2010 at 08:15:22 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  To LamontCranston - Thanks for the kind words (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Lawrence, bablhous, fhcec

      You're right. Subscribing to international media like the Spiegel definitely gets one out of the box of the American corporate media prison of the mind.  

      sig... You just ran into a hardcore progressive who's just another working stiff with an MBA degree & therefore a vociferous labor union supporter [smile]

      by Democrats Ramshield on Sun Dec 12, 2010 at 09:26:06 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Who cares what Beck has to say. (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Matt Z, here4tehbeer, Quackerz

    He something line 1.5 million viewers.

    The democratic process being hijacked by wealthy power -brokers is a bigger problem. The inability to have a clean election is bigger problem. Including the bullshit the democratic party pulled in 2008

    A case can be made that the element of the democratic party used race a political tool as well. The Clinton were eviscerated with it.

  •  I do not think Beck is nuts (6+ / 0-)

    He is a damn good con artist.

    Everything he has done is a con to earn money. He knows his audience is filled with crackpot conspiracy theorists.

    Everything and anything he has ever said has had the undercurrent dog whistle of the New World Order, One World Government, One World Religion, Free Masonry Symbolism, Illuminati, Globalists Cabals, Council on Foreign Relations, Trilateral Commission, Bilderberg Group.

    He knows this is his audience. I don't believe he believes in any of this, but he knows his viewers do and he knows he stands to make a fortune by playing it up.

    THIS picture posted in this diary is proof of it. He knows there are people in his viewership who view things like that as symbolism for Masons or those who worship Egyptian culture, etc.

    Not nuts, just a really good con artist.

    "They proved that if you quit smoking, it will prolong your life. What they haven't proved is that a prolonged life is a good thing." - Bill Hicks

    by Moon Mop on Sun Dec 12, 2010 at 08:05:23 AM PST

  •  Actually The US Does Have Maternity Leave, Sorta. (0+ / 0-)

    Anti sex and disability discrimination laws could be triggered if an employer discriminates against a woman in her employment because of her pregnancy, or her giving birth. So...if an employer fires a woman who is pregnant or can't came to work because of childbirth or childbirth complications, the employer runs the risk of footing not just a few weeks of maternity leave pay, but a stiff judgment and salty legal bills.

    It can be quite a protection, in many cases.

    "There's no housing bubble..." - Fed Chief Ben Bernanke, 10/27/2005

    by chuco35 on Sun Dec 12, 2010 at 08:22:52 AM PST

    •  to chuco35 - I think you may have misunderstood (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      aliasalias, Dirtandiron

      the point I was trying to make in the diary. It really has nothing to do with discrimination employment law. The point I was trying to make was as yet no legislation has been promulgated that specifically provides for maternity leave to be paid by an employer, as is the case in every country in the European Union. I think that is a distinction. As such I hope you will come back and amplify on your previous comment. Thanks for your post.

      You're right employment discrimination should not be tolerated. Though I would like to note that employment discrimination can be difficult to prove and costly to litigate. Therefore having a law on the books that requires employers to pay maternity leave benefits to both partners or shared maternity benefits, is a progressive idea that exists in every single European Union country.

      sig... You just ran into a hardcore progressive who's just another working stiff with an MBA degree & therefore a vociferous labor union supporter [smile]

      by Democrats Ramshield on Sun Dec 12, 2010 at 12:58:01 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  Oh they just make up some passable excuse (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      bablhous

      like "excessive absenteeism" or "poor work review" (which they make sure to create beforehand) or "downsizing" - after all, if they eliminate the position it doesn't matter WHY the woman gets laid off.

      If it's
      Not your body
      Then it's
      Not your choice
      AND it's
      None of your damn business!

      by TheOtherMaven on Sun Dec 12, 2010 at 12:58:50 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Beck is a clown (4+ / 0-)

    Who is stealing money from fools.

  •  Not just the conservative crazies (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    bablhous

    Janet Napolitano has decided the book 1984 is an instructional handbook with tsa naked scanners, groping, and now fascist fear posters and videos at walmat.

    http://www.fulana.org/...

    what the hell is wrong with this woman.

  •  Yes. !!! (4+ / 0-)

    My employment, and to some degree hobby activity has put me in regular, and familiar contact with people in EU and Australia.

    The differences are stark.

    One thing most ordinary Americans can do is start reading international media.  What we have here, with very few exceptions is a corporate joke.

    I've been, and will continue to, make the call for strong Progressive movement growth.  Not just some numbers, but serious efforts, complete with some monthly contributions from active Progressives.

    We need to:

    1.  Quit ignoring the power of radio.  Here in my city, Portland, Oregon, KPOJ gets about a 1.0 share, and it's programming is well aligned with a clear majority.  The three conservative hate sticks get much more than that.

    Hate sells like sex sells, because the haters, racists, bigots and theocrats all need daily validation to avoid the otherwise stiff social pressure for them to feel like the asses they are.

    People still listen in their cars, and there are a lot of them, and they need to know who is fighting for them, not the corporations.

    Folks, that's us!  Progressives.  We are it.  There isn't anybody else in Washington that isn't firmly in line for the corporations.

    1.  Regular and consistent messaging to small business.  We need to peel these people off from the GOP.  They have the exact same needs that ordinary Americans do, and they have significant community influence, currently dominated by the GOP.
    1.  The right does not own faith.  Jesus was a liberal, and we have religious freedom here in the US by law, though you wouldn't know it by the amount of hate we air every day.

    This means hitting the churches and building support for socially just legislation, and outreach / advocacy efforts linked to progressive values, just like what is currently being done for racism, bigotry and theocracy.  They will get to people in need, and enable them to hate, in return for a nights sleep and a good meal.

    We can do that, and need to do that.

    1.  Make hate speech a decency problem.  Force those haters onto subscription media, keeping the public airwaves hate free.

    This needs to be a major movement, in and of itself.  I don't know whether or not the fairness doctrine is the way to go, but there must be a way to go because enabling haters to hate for profit is a clear harm to those they target.  Racists, bigots and theocrats impact the lives of many Americans in a negative way, every day.  Those people don't get to take breaks.  Just ask any gay person, black, hispanic, persian, etc... person about that.  They will tell you it's very ugly right now.

    1.  This is happening somewhat, but the effort needs to be bigger.

    Door to door outreach efforts.  Divide it up into cells, roll those up to districts, and organize apart from, or take over the Democratic party meetings, and start to own the Democratic party brand again, targeting the corporate leadership, who currently isn't doing us any economic favors.

    There is a serious work burden ahead of us, or the Germans are right about it.  We will go through a very ugly time.

    IF THEY ARE GOING TO SCREW THE PEOPLE, MAKE THEM OWN IT. #opengeekorg

    by potatohead on Sun Dec 12, 2010 at 09:20:36 AM PST

  •  Murdoch was a Marxist (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    stagemom, Jlukes, jayden

    when he was at Cambridge.  Glen Beck's sinuses were a disposal filter for 8 kilos of cocaine before he became a Mormon.

  •  The best tool to fight: (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    melo, liberalconservative, roberta g
    <div class="intro">

    Okay, one of many tools, but this one is worth serious consideration by the entire progressive community:

    (Warning: both the Catholic World Report and Playboy magazine are referenced in this piece.  If you feel this could cause the Internet to implode into a black hole, read no further)

    Okay, one of many tools, but this one is worth serious consideration by the entire progressive community:

    (Warning: both the Catholic World Report and Playboy magazine are referenced in this piece.  If you feel this could cause the Internet to implode into a black hole, read no further))

    <div id="extended">

    In the 1970's, Saul Alinsky worked with an amazing and effective tactic for confrontic corporate power.  He worked to get concerned citizens to assign their shareholder's proxy votes to organizers who then would demand votes on issues at annual meetings with the force of those votes behind them. These actions were not expected to change policy directly, because a few powerful sharholders would hold a majority of vote, but the resultin gdisruption and publicity was able to force change.

    This can still work.  The simple proof?  Right wingers like Proof that this  Andrew Briebart are scared of it:

    Like net neutrality, another pet cause of the Left, proxy access sounds technical and somewhat boring on the surface. But also like net neutrality, and like the Fairness Doctrine, proxy access would fundamentally reshape an area of commerce to the Left’s advantage by granting a right of forced access to viewpoints that have been unable to prevail in the marketplace of ideas. And because proxy access would reach all types of businesses that are publicly traded, it could serve as a lever to force U.S. companies to bow to the Left’s wish list on every policy from “card check” that would end secret ballot for union elections to cap-and-trade rationing of electricity to a silencing of conservative voices by small group of ideological shareholders who would have veto power over the content of a media company.

    These fights are going on now.

    Learning from Alinsky  October 2010 issue of Catholic World Report:

    Drawing from Saul Alinsky’s 1970s “Proxies for People” strategy, progressive nuns are now attending shareholders’ meetings and engaging in proxy votes to confront corporations on issues ranging from executive compensation and derivatives to military spending to “ending the corporate control of (bottled) water.” (Time reports that under “Securities and Exchange Commission (SEC) rules, any shareholder of a publicly traded company that has held $2,000 worth of that corporation’s stock for at least a year can send in a proposal to be voted on at the firm’s annual meeting.”)

    See also

    Nuns vs. Bankers: The Shareholder Proxy Wars Time Wednesday, Apr. 21, 2010:

    At Citigroup's annual meeting this week, a group of New Jersey nuns, the Sisters of Charity of St. Elizabeth, asked the bank's shareholders to ratify a proposal that would require Citi to issue a report by the end of the year stating its policies on the collateral used to back many of the bank's most complicated trades. And the Sisters of Charity are not alone in making requests of corporate America. The Sisters of Mercy Investment Program will ask Lockheed Martin at that company's annual meeting to detail how much money it spends developing space weapons. And environmental group As You Sow wants Coca-Cola to stop using potentially cancer-causing BPA plastics in its soda cans.

    here's more from Triple Pundit: People Planet Profit December 10th, 2010:

    For instance, in 2006, an article in the Christian Science Monitor, entitled, “The power of nun: taking a lead role in shareholder activism,” the article stated that, “the Bronx-based Sisters of Mercy bought stock in Synagro, a fertiliser pelletmaker with a plant in the Bronx, in order to lean on them to clean up emissions caused by burning New York City sewage in the pelletmaking process.”

    In the US, a significant proportion of all proxy initiatives—stockholder proposals voted on at company meetings—are sponsored by religious organisations. Leading these fights in the US is the Interfaith Centre on Corporate Responsibility (ICCR). The “ICCR raises the prophetic voice of faith [on behalf of nearly 300 faith-based institutional investors] to change the way companies conduct themselves as good corporate citizens… In 2010, ICCR’s members have filed 282 shareholder resolutions on social, environmental and corporate governance issues.”

    An example of how successful the ICCR has been is the following: “an ICCR member-sponsored proposal requesting greater transparency around derivatives achieved an unprecedented 30 per cent approval by shareholders (typically, a shareholder vote in the double-digits is considered very successful) and went on to produce votes above 30 per cent at the AGMs [annual general meetings] of Bank of America, Goldman Sachs and JP Morgan.”

    Here's Alinksy describing the potential from a March 1972 Playboy Interview(yes, believe it or not, the magazine actually has done some journalism):

    ...So what finally broke Kodak's resistance?

    ALINSKY: Simple self–interest –– the knowledge that the price of continuing to fight us was greater than reaching a compromise. It was one of the longest and toughest battles I've been in, though. After endless months of frustration, we finally decided we'd try to embarrass Kodak outside its fortress of Rochester, and disrupt the annual stockholders' convention in Flemington, New Jersey. Though we didn't know it at the time –– all we had in mind was a little troublemaking –– this was the seed from which a vitally important tactic was to spring. I addressed the General Assembly of the Unitarian–Universalist Association and asked them for their proxies on whatever Kodak stock they held in order to gain entree to the stockholders' meeting. The Unitarians voted to use the proxies for their entire Kodak stock to support FIGHT –– 5620 shares valued at over $700,000.

    The wire services carried the story and news of the incident rapidly spread across the country. Individuals began sending in their proxies, and other church groups indicated they were prepared to follow the Unitarians' lead. By the purest accident, we'd stumbled onto a tactical gold mine. Politicians who saw major church denominations assigning us their proxies could envision them assigning us their votes as well; the church groups have vast constituencies in their congregations. Suddenly senators and representatives who hadn't returned our phone calls were ringing up and lending a sympathetic ear to my request for a senatorial investigation of Kodak's hiring practices.

    As the proxies rolled in, the pressure began to build on Kodak –– and on other corporations as well. Executives of the top companies began seeking me out and trying to learn my intentions. I'd never seen the establishment so uptight before, and this convinced me that we had happened onto the cord that might open the golden curtain shielding the private sector from its public responsibilities. It obviously also convinced Kodak, because they soon caved in and recognized FIGHT as the official representative of the Rochester black community. Kodak has since begun hiring more blacks and training unskilled black workers, as well as inducing the city administration to deliver major concessions on education, housing, municipal services and urban renewal. It was our proxy tactic that made all this possible. It scared Kodak, and it scared Wall Street. It's our job now to relieve their tensions by fulfilling their fears.

    PLAYBOY: What do you mean? Surely you don't expect to gain enough proxies to take control of any major corporation.

    ALINSKY: No, despite all the crap about "people's capitalism," the dominant controlling stock in all major corporations is vested in the hands of a few people we could never get to. We're not even concerned about electing four or five board members to a 25–member board, which in certain cases would be theoretically feasible. They'd only be outvoted by management right down the line. We want to use the proxies as a means of social and political pressure against the megacorporations, and as a vehicle for exposing their hypocrisy and deceit.

    The proxy tactic is also an invaluable means of gaining middle–class participation in radical causes. Instead of chasing Dow Chemical recruiters off campus, for example,student activists could organize and demand that the university administration turn over the Dow proxies in its portfolio to them. They'd refuse, but it would be a solid organizational issue, and one or two might even be forced to give in.By assigning their proxies, liberals can also continue attending cocktail parties while assuaging their troubled social consciences.

    Proxies can become a springboard to other issues in organizing the middle class. Proxy participation on a large scale could ultimately mean the democratization of corporate America, and could result in the changing of these corporations' overseas operations, which would precipitate important shifts in our foreign policy. There's really no limit to the proxy potential. Pat Moynihan told me in Washington when he was still Nixon's advisor that "proxies for people would mean revolution –– they'll never let you get away with it." It will mean revolution, peaceful revolution, and we will get away with it in the years to come.

    As I understand it, the SEC Proposed Rule 14a-11 rule (voted in 3-2) that would make proxy access even easier is currently on hold pending the outcome of legal objections from the business community. However, that rule does not seem to apply to the actions taken by religious groups above, so there is every reason to explore this tactic.

    Soooo,seems to me that with all the conservative talk of an ownership society, we ought to take advantage of that ownership.  This is one way to do it.

    Recommended reading/listening/viewing  for radicals:

    The incomparable Saul Alinsky's Rules for Radicals. Online preview here .  This is a practical guide to how to take power away from those who have it.  The essential premise is that the Have’s advantage is a lot of money; their disadvantage is few people.  The Have=Not’s are in the opposite situations.  So Alinsky provides examples and guides on how to use the advantages of people over money.  Most are easy to do, many absolutely hysterical, and all effective.  See the O’Hare Airport Shit-In.  (yes, you read that right. No spoilers here though, you’ll have to read the book)

    Influence: The Psychology of Persuasion. by Robert Cialdini. This is the single most valuable book I have read on how to persuade and how to avoid being persuaded.

    Don't Think of an Elephant!: Know Your Values and Frame the Debate--The Essential Guide for Progressives, by George Lakoff. See also: Cognitive Policy Wonks and The Progressive Strategy Handbook Project

    Frank Luntz: everything he’s written.  He's a conservative message master, and you have to know the enemy.    Remember the great scene in Patton, when the victorious general shouted: “Rommel! You magnificent son of a bitch!  I READ YOUR BOOK!”

    Making the News: A Guide for Activists and Nonprofits, By Jason Salzman

    The Campaign Manager: Running and Winning Local Elections, By Catherine Shaw

    How To Win A Local Election,by Lawrence Grey

    The Opposition Research Handbook: Guide to Political Investigations

    Guerrilla Marketing

    Chompsky.Info  Many of Noam Chompsky’s insightful and frightening analyses

    Robert Newman’s History of Oil Thanks to GreyHawk for recommending this.
    ***

    To see how the combined direct costs of the Iraq and Afghanistan wars affects you see the National Priorities Project's costofwar.com and select your state and city.  

    ***


    Build Infrastructure:  Volunteer!  List of State and Local Democratic Parties


    </div><form>

    Politics is the entertainment branch of industry. -Frank Zappa

    by TheGrandWazoo on Sun Dec 12, 2010 at 09:24:29 AM PST

  •  yeah, except those pesky elections we have n/t (0+ / 0-)
  •  From a car I saw in Oregon a few weekends ago (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    stagemom, fhcec, Amber6541

    It reads:

    If you are not listening to Glen Beck on the Fox news networks than you don't have a clue what is really happening to our country. God bless Our troops.

    These people scare me.

    •  2.6 million viewers - .01% of the TVA (0+ / 0-)

      They are an immendely powerful group, powerful far beyond their size, because of their fanaticism. Fox News is believed like a religious faith to these viewers. These viewers will see evidence from any reputed scientist, mathematician, historian or doctor in the world, and refuse to listen to him or her, because that person is "on the Left." They firmly believe that the entire rest of the country - Liberals and "Progressives" are the stupid, addled, Kool-Aid-guzzling dupes of George Soros. They truly believe that Fox is the fairest, most accurate, most forthright, most patriotic and more honest of all the news outlets in the entire world. They absolutely trust in "Fair and Balanced."

      They are a minority, but they are active, radicalized, fanatically certain, and sitting down with Obama right now. Obama may think they are reasonable, but they are not. It is like negotiating with a religious cult.

      These viewers may be declining slightly, but it can never be fast enough. Obama doesn't realize that the men like Boehner, Cantor and Hensarling are creations of Fox News. *that's who he is trying to find common ground with.

      You can't bargain with these people, no matter how large their audience share is.You can't bargain with people who do not base their decisions on actual facts. Those are the people that watch Fox News.

      Democracy *means* Anti-Plutocracy. Democrats, be true to your Self and win!

      by Louise on Sun Dec 12, 2010 at 11:37:17 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  to debbieleft - for the benefit of our readers (0+ / 0-)

      I hope you will expand on your comments. Tell us a bit more about how you feel and why you feel the way you do? It also seems to me this diary got your attention. Please tell us why it got your attention? Thanks for posting

      sig... You just ran into a hardcore progressive who's just another working stiff with an MBA degree & therefore a vociferous labor union supporter [smile]

      by Democrats Ramshield on Sun Dec 12, 2010 at 12:53:38 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Well,,, (0+ / 0-)

        My parents are big fox news watchers. I am the family hippy and pretty much disowned. I took off OBAMA stickers from my car as I didn't like having my tail lights broken - no stickers and my tail lights are fine.

        So when I see someone like this park next to me with a NRA sticker and fox news propaganda I am afraid I'll get my headlights broken or worse.

  •  Except that most Americans WANT some measure (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Louise, Amber6541

    of socialism and a social democratic welfare state, even if most would never think of or refer to it that way. Meaning that for a fascist state to succeed in the US, it would have to either be able to successfully exercize total control over all Americans if it took away their welfare state programs in order to suppress the inevitable outrage this would cause, or else continue many components of this welfare state in order to keep the masses sufficiently content, which would cause deep divisions within itself between its anti-welfare state dogmatists and those who are ok with some sort of welfare state if it helps them hold onto power--a rift I don't think is sustainable.

    We're not really set up for long-term, sustainable fascism. Americans love at least the illusion of freedom and prosperity, and want their social safety net, too much for any fascist state to be able to give it to them long-term. But we're certainly liable to devolve into some sort of quasi-fascism in the short to medium-term. Fascism, like its economic counterpart true free market economics, doesn't work, long-term, and will eventually self-destruct out of its own unsustainability. But I hope we don't have to endure the misery of proving this in action. Others have done this for us, thank you.

    "Those who stand for nothing fall for anything...Mankind are forever destined to be the dupes of bold & cunning imposture" --Alexander Hamilton

    by kovie on Sun Dec 12, 2010 at 10:12:23 AM PST

  •  'Exceptionalism' a la Palin won't protect America (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Amber6541

    Germans and Europeans as a whole know a proto-fascist like Glenn Beck when they see him.
    The rightwing is nuturing a madman.

  •  I watched the movie "Patton" for the umpteenth (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Amber6541

    Time the other night and "Old Blood and Guts" said something I hadn't noticed before. I'm paraphrasing, but as the Americans were closing in on Berlin from the west and the Russians from the east, Patton said "We're fighting the wrong enemy" -- meaning he was far more comfy with Germany's fascism than the Soviet Union's communism.

    That led me to wonder -- even though I'd pretty much already guessed -- about Patton's political affiliations. A quick read of his Wiki link found this:

    While speaking to a group of reporters, he compared the Nazis to losers in American political elections, and that being a Nazi in Germany was, "like being a Democrat in the States."

    While I'm not quite sure what, exactly, he meant by that, It would appear many Republicans have been and still are far more comfortable with the idea of a fascist America than a socialist America. Prescott Bush comes to mind, as well.

    This ain't no party. This ain't no disco. This ain't no foolin' around!

    by Snud on Sun Dec 12, 2010 at 10:39:52 AM PST

    •  He intention was to inspire Johan Goldberg which (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      JohnInWestland

      is why both should have stayed away from socio-political analysis.  

      Historically the RIGHT is associated with FASCISM primarily because both are oriented toward Corporatism. The LEFT is assoiciated with COMMUNISM primarily because both are oriented toward social agendas.

      Somehow the Right has managed to make the Left a symbol of both cuz their shite don't stink and the educational system has failed.

      The Revolution has already been televised. This is just the mopping up operation.

      by opticnerver on Sun Dec 12, 2010 at 11:32:54 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  he has an audience of fat-ass geezers welded (0+ / 0-)

    to their couches.

    •  Hey! I resemble that remark! (0+ / 0-)

      It comes down to the geezer war.. Are his fat ass geezers more prolific in the blogosphere than our fat ass geezers? We have to be careful that there isn't a fat ass geezer gap in the 'fold war'.

      Now it's time for my meds.

      The Revolution has already been televised. This is just the mopping up operation.

      by opticnerver on Sun Dec 12, 2010 at 11:25:50 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Say what? (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    aliasalias

    ...the progressive social justice agenda of the Obama administration...

    Are you insane? Obama isn't anything close to being progressive. He's center-right at best.

    "The people have only as much liberty as they have the intelligence to want & the courage to take." - Emma Goldman

    by gjohnsit on Sun Dec 12, 2010 at 11:12:14 AM PST

  •  Mr. Soros from what I understand (0+ / 0-)

    is a financial backer of Wiki Leaks.

    Unfortunately, Stan Goff hates him, calls Soros calls a "currency pirate".  Anyone know?  

    Sorry, I haven't read the posts, on my way out into this storm!!!

    •  Soros (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Cliss

      made most of his money shorting the British Pound, and other currency bets.

      It wasn't pretty, but it wasn't illegal. Basically, he made his money by not believing the mainstream economic hype.

      "Empty vessels make the loudest sound, they have the least wit and are the greatest blabbers" Plato

      by Empty Vessel on Sun Dec 12, 2010 at 12:19:24 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  As far as backing wikileaks, no idea (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Cliss

      But it certainly would be the kind of thing he would back.

      "Empty vessels make the loudest sound, they have the least wit and are the greatest blabbers" Plato

      by Empty Vessel on Sun Dec 12, 2010 at 12:20:00 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  PS (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Cliss

        Just googled Soros and Wikileaks, and all the hits come up for Glenn Beck and a variety of right-wing conspiracy sites.  I couldn't find any reputable sources making the link.

        So, my guess is he doesn't support wikileaks.  Soros isn't exactly quiet about who he does and does not support (e.g., move-on).

        Soros is the favorite boogey-man of the right, cause he is rich, progressive (mostly), and has a villainous sounding eastern-European accent.

        "Empty vessels make the loudest sound, they have the least wit and are the greatest blabbers" Plato

        by Empty Vessel on Sun Dec 12, 2010 at 12:44:04 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

  •  the military coup of 2012 (0+ / 0-)

    appears more real every year.

    http://www.uwec.edu/...

    George Bush is Living proof of the axiom "Never send a boy to do a man's job" E -2.25 S -4.10

    by nathguy on Sun Dec 12, 2010 at 11:27:15 AM PST

    •  eh, this letter is BS. it was apparent long (0+ / 0-)

      before 1992. where have you people been? I mean, seriously? where?

      •  Additionally it would never happen that way (0+ / 0-)

        The line of succession to the Presidency is quite explicit and goes through the Speaker of the House, the President pro tem of the Senate, and all the Cabinet officers. I don't think it would be possible to suborn or remove that many people.

        If it's
        Not your body
        Then it's
        Not your choice
        AND it's
        None of your damn business!

        by TheOtherMaven on Sun Dec 12, 2010 at 01:24:53 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  extreme paralysis of the political arms? (0+ / 0-)

          imagine a scenario.

          a weak president,  an aging Vice President.
          a House of Representatives run by a proto-fascist
          like Tom Delay.  A senate with a weak Majority Leader.
          A cabinet with few people of character.

          A national emergency arises, say a major disaster,
          right after a major military setback.

          The military is drafted into service dealing with a F5 hurricane cleanup, and gets a broad declaration of martial law in a 9 state region,  and a strong 4 star general is appointed acting emergency commander of the
          emergency.  

          He pushes the house to give him broad emergency powers
          to deal with the national crisis as well as handle the foreign military crisis.  

          The president dies suddenly, and the aging VP is too sick to take command.  The House pushes to appoint
          the General as acting President for the duration of the emergency.

          And thats how a republic dies.

          George Bush is Living proof of the axiom "Never send a boy to do a man's job" E -2.25 S -4.10

          by nathguy on Sun Dec 12, 2010 at 02:04:44 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  That's remotely possible (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            nathguy

            but you have to explain why the proto-fascist Speaker doesn't just jump into the power vacuum himself. (Is he best buddies with the 4 star general and does he figure he can go farther kissing ass than warming the seat in the Oval Office?)

            Here's another scenario: the Vice-President becomes incapacitated and has to resign, and 4-star general gets his buddy the proto-fascist Speaker to get him (the general) nominated and confirmed as Vice-President. Then they just wait for something terminal to happen to the President (or even arrange it!).

            If it's
            Not your body
            Then it's
            Not your choice
            AND it's
            None of your damn business!

            by TheOtherMaven on Sun Dec 12, 2010 at 05:31:26 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  if you become president under the 22nd amendment (0+ / 0-)

              you have to resign from Congress.

              Say you are looking at a sick aging VP, and
              you can buffalo him for the moment, but he may
              rally and argue that he should become president.

              you may have surrendered your seat, and not have
              a solid hold on the white house.

              but, if you stay there, you can play Crassus
              to the Generals Caesar.

              George Bush is Living proof of the axiom "Never send a boy to do a man's job" E -2.25 S -4.10

              by nathguy on Sun Dec 12, 2010 at 06:05:07 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

  •  Is it time? (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Time Waits for no Woman, valadon

    The Democrats for the most part has moved center right while the Republicans moved, I would call it to the insanity right. The Progressive/Left is now left out with no real representation in Washington.

    Remember you will always be informed that it the less of two evils. This means you have accepted evil in your choice in the end.

    If not now? Then when?

    Doing nothing is very easy for Republican party to do ... you never know when there finished. Me 2009

    by army193 on Sun Dec 12, 2010 at 11:28:15 AM PST

  •  Grassroots Takeover Strategy (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    aliasalias

    The rise of a "dictatorial democracy" can be prevented, according to Joseph Firestone, by a grassroots governmental takeover strategy that he writes about in The Threat to Open Society and the Interactive Voter Choice System.

    The system, now in development, provides free web-based tools by which voters across the political spectrum can democratically govern from below by reforming government from below -- without having to first get control of the media or change any of the laws that are being used to build this "dictatorial democracy".  

  •  A very important diary, DR. (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Bluefin, Democrats Ramshield

    I would, however, dispute , Soros' claim that the U.S. is headed towars proto-fascism.... it's already stepped into it with the right foot.  It did so in the year 2000, when the Bush/Cheney Admin was selected by the Supreme Court.

    I don't know whether the Democratic resurgence in 2006 and 2008 was a change in direction or a blip on the screen in the inevitable march towards a quasi dictatorship in the U.S.

    I sure hope it's the former and not the latter.

    "The perfect is the enemy of the good." - Voltaire

    by Lawrence on Sun Dec 12, 2010 at 12:21:44 PM PST

    •  Lawrence - I'm not a political scientist but... (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Lawrence

      in putting my MBA hat on for a minute, I can see that economically America is in deep, deep trouble in terms of the American working class that is.

      The simple fact is that the American working class would be better off by tons if a European style social safety net existed in America. That in essence is the heart of this diary that I hope communicates this. As for Glenn Beck well, he is a very serious man and I think he should be taken very seriously. I also think if we underestimate the Tea Party and the Fox news misinformation network, then we do so at our own peril. The simple fact is that not enough people will ever see this diary to really make a difference, that is just the way it is. I accept that. By contrast Glenn Beck has an audience of 11 million and that is a lot of folks that are being misled in my opinion.

      sig... You just ran into a hardcore progressive who's just another working stiff with an MBA degree & therefore a vociferous labor union supporter [smile]

      by Democrats Ramshield on Sun Dec 12, 2010 at 12:49:08 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  welcome to reality (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Democrats Ramshield

    Aren't we living under the threat of the death of the American Dream and loss of American democracy to the forces of proto-fascism to the chorus voice of Fox news, Glenn Beck/Tea Party proto-fascism?  

    the answer to the ongoing question posed in the theme of your diary is ....YES

    That's why those of us who live in the real world (as opposed to Fox World) are so upset right now.

    "If liberals really hated America we'd be voting republican"

    by New Earth on Sun Dec 12, 2010 at 12:24:46 PM PST

    •  Please recommend New Earth's comment (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      New Earth

      I hope you stay engaged and will amplify on your previous comment. I think yours is an interesting point of view and I believe our readers will read your comment with great interest as will I. I hope that you and some of our other readers will keep this discussion going, because it's an important one.

      sig... You just ran into a hardcore progressive who's just another working stiff with an MBA degree & therefore a vociferous labor union supporter [smile]

      by Democrats Ramshield on Sun Dec 12, 2010 at 12:51:27 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Yes DR, I hope so too (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Democrats Ramshield

        The disappointment lies in the fact that there are so many in this country who have been brainwashed by Fox and are incapable of a realistic view on the world we are living in and the destructive agenda their leaders are so vigorously putting into place, and who appear to be unstoppable.

        "If liberals really hated America we'd be voting republican"

        by New Earth on Sun Dec 12, 2010 at 01:28:50 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  To New Earth - Please read (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          aliasalias, New Earth

          Look, I am just a guy with an opinion and a home computer but let me ask you this. Why don't we join the EEA which is the common trade area of the European Union? That might bring in some worker's rights and a lot more jobs. Now that's something we could all write to our members of Congress

          sig... You just ran into a hardcore progressive who's just another working stiff with an MBA degree & therefore a vociferous labor union supporter [smile]

          by Democrats Ramshield on Sun Dec 12, 2010 at 02:10:00 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  I don't know enough about the EEA (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Democrats Ramshield

            to have an educated opinion on the value of joining but on the surface sounds like a good idea. Although if Obama actually implemented his own campaign rhetoric I think we could be well on the way to a productive and more balanced future especially in the areas of infrastructure and renewable energy development. Both of which would create millions of jobs. As Kerry pointed out recently we are falling so far behind that we may no longer be able to compete at all.

            We are squandering tremendous opportunity in these areas and by doing so we are dooming ourselves to an unfortunate future as an ex-global leader.

            "If liberals really hated America we'd be voting republican"

            by New Earth on Sun Dec 12, 2010 at 02:23:12 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  To New Earth (0+ / 0-)

              You do have some interesting ideas. When you get a chance, please feel free to email me because I'd like to write a diary on this topic in the future. Maybe we could brainstorm on some diary ideas.

              Here's my email: democratsramshield@yahoo.com

              sig... You just ran into a hardcore progressive who's just another working stiff with an MBA degree & therefore a vociferous labor union supporter [smile]

              by Democrats Ramshield on Sun Dec 12, 2010 at 02:34:45 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

  •  I wonder (0+ / 0-)

    how we can even call it a democracy, when it is dictatorial?

  •  Appeal to authority (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Mindtrain

    I am not questioning your diary, or your fears, but I am wondering how relevant Soros is to your discussion.

    For what its worth, I think Soros is a fairly brilliant trader, damn good economist, mostly good progressive, and a fairly lousy predictor of social movements.

    I worry about the proto-fascism of Beck, but I am do not really accept Soros as an expert on this.  I worry you may be falling into the fallacy of an appeal to authority.

    To say that Soros is a gifted trader and economist, or even a good progressive, does not mean that he has any special gifts on predicting social movements.

    To phrase it another, in one very narrow subject, I really am the world's leading authority (I will not mention that area to protect my anonymity).  This expertise has no bearing on economics or politics.  As far as they go, I am just as green and unreliable as anyone else at this site.

    You don't need Soros to make your case, and really his views on the subject aren't any better than anyone else's.

    Now, if he is talking about where he thinks currency markets are headed, then we should listen.  He is a demonstrated expert on that (though even experts get it wrong, and past performance is not a predictor of future results--ahem).

    "Empty vessels make the loudest sound, they have the least wit and are the greatest blabbers" Plato

    by Empty Vessel on Sun Dec 12, 2010 at 12:26:21 PM PST

    •  PS (0+ / 0-)

      I might also mention that that motherfucker Soros has totally stopped sending me my monthly check.  Take heed Mr. Soros man, if you want my support, I want my money.

      "Empty vessels make the loudest sound, they have the least wit and are the greatest blabbers" Plato

      by Empty Vessel on Sun Dec 12, 2010 at 12:28:51 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  testing (0+ / 0-)

    testing

    Tim Wise On Israel: "The right to live wherever one chooses has never included the right to live in someone else's house, after taking it by force or fraud."

    by yellow is my favorite color on Sun Dec 12, 2010 at 12:46:19 PM PST

  •  "That is why I support President Obama and ..." (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    aliasalias, Bluefin

    The diarist writes,

    Paid sick leave, paid annual leave for all workers, even to include the unemployed as a human right, which would include paid maternity leave by right of law. Something that US law presently does not require, but that every country in the EU has and in fact that the American working class should have in support of the American dream. That is why I support President Obama and the Democrats.  

    I agree with him that all these things are desirable.  They're the hallmarks of contemporary civilized society.  But how does wanting these advances for American society furnish a reason to support President Obama and the Democrats?  Advocating for what the diarist correctly acknowledges to be "commonsense legislation" that would enact all these things is absolutely unthinkable in Washington, especially by Democrats.  

    The moment I see the Democrats in general advocate for these things wholeheartedly, with competent framing, and with good messaging, I will support them.  But they just don't, haven't, and I am led to believe by their behavior that they just can't.  I hope I'm proved wrong.

  •  of course, Soros has tools the rest of us (0+ / 0-)

    don't to deal with problems like Beck.

    Why doesn't he manipulate Fox stock down to its worth in terms of social value to America (pennies on the dollar), buy it from Murdoch in a really hostile takeover, and fire the entire "news" division and find competent and honest replacements? They don't have to be progressive, a competent and honest news team would probably pull in viewers across the political spectrum. If FoxNews looked like the old CNN, I think there would be a lot of happy TV viewers.

    This would not be censorship, if he is the new owner of Fox, he can do as he pleases with it. And given the ratings of FoxNews programming, he'd probably have a considerably more profitable organzation if he did this.

    Looking for intelligent energy policy alternatives? Try here.

    by alizard on Sun Dec 12, 2010 at 01:18:37 PM PST

  •  So, what's the solution? Seriously, how does (0+ / 0-)

    this diary help or do anything?

    The U.S. has been headed in this direction since the late 1970's if not sooner. Moreover, as others have pointed out, Soros is not exactly the best person to be citing on this score.

    Gore Vidal made similar statements, much more eloquently and bluntly (in that GV way) two years ago.

    So, what's the point? I ask this as someone who has expected Fascism in America since I was old enough to know what Fascism was. I want to know what you think we should do about it.

  •  Let's not forget... (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    zaka1, New Earth

    ... that the heart of fascism is corporatism.

    And we're more than well on our way there.

    Grinding the seed grain to make bread guarantees long term starvation.

    by JRandomPoster on Sun Dec 12, 2010 at 01:34:35 PM PST

    •  on our way? (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      zaka1, JRandomPoster

      we are there and have been for a while. I honestly don't know how this can be stopped. Clearly we all had hoped Obama was going to be the catalyst that would turn it around... we see now how well that's working.

      "If liberals really hated America we'd be voting republican"

      by New Earth on Sun Dec 12, 2010 at 01:44:38 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  please stop quoting Der Spiegel (0+ / 0-)

    articles on Glenn Beck.

    There is not a competition between the American dream and the European dream.

    We both have our challenges, and we both have the potential to overcome those challenges.

    Ask your Member of Congress what they're doing to put Americans back to work.

    by washunate on Sun Dec 12, 2010 at 02:24:37 PM PST

  •  Fareed Zakaria called Beck a terrorist (0+ / 0-)

    Pretty much in so many words, and using Beck's own definition, on GPS this morning.
    http://www.cnn.com/...

  •  Hmmm (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    zaka1

    the American people from enacting commonsense legislation creating a European style social safety net in the United States for the American working class? This would include universal medical and dental that could never be taken away. Paid sick leave, paid annual leave for all workers, even to include the unemployed as a human right, which would include paid maternity leave by right of law. Something that US law presently does not require, but that every country in the EU has and in fact that the American working class should have in support of the American dream. That is why I support President Obama and the Democrats.

    Could you produce any substantive evidence that Obama and the democrats support anything that remotely resembles what you describe?  Last time I checked they were rallying round their Cat Food Commission.

    American business is about maximizing shareholder value. You basically don't want workers. ~Allen Sinai

    by ActivistGuy on Sun Dec 12, 2010 at 04:27:17 PM PST

  •  Soros sat this election out. Remember that. (0+ / 0-)

    It wouldn't have turned the tide, but some big bucks might have saved 10 or so good liberal Ds who went down to secret Chamber of Lies/RoveFucksYouAgain ads dumped on voters in the last week.

    Until Soros et. al., put thier $ where their mouth is and fund a pernmanent alternative to Fox-aganda we're just seeing a 'richman's toy'.

  •  These people.. (0+ / 0-)

    are so screwed up. Ive noticed this meme time and time again on the rightwing. Any time they display words like "Truth" or "Good" or "learning" or anything like that, with capitals like that. That sort of message gives you essentially Our coffers are empty. Republicans are the worst sorts of people, in almost every scenario. I dont know how beck amanged to convince everyone that he and only he is telling the truth.

    Im still waiting for them FEMA prison camps that the rightwing idiosphere thinks was made by obama. When of course, that was bush, 10 years ago.

    Its just, you gotta figure, SOME percentage of these people are idiots.

    Theres the problem though. If you take away all the Beckian prophecies of doomsday, which would most likely fail anyway. The trouble is, these jerks have come to believe they are incredibly smart.Why? Cause Beck is on TV...AND the radio. And beck calls himself the 'stupidest person there' to his audience. They are smart enough to be able to not parrow word for word talking point.

    They're insane, plain and simple. Id love to see ONE peice of original research. Not gonna happen, because why should we invest in science? All its gotten us lately are pointless volcano monitors. (/snark) they jerks in the highest regard. And every day, the moment someone comes up with something (easy to do with hatred)

    So Just Remember: Dont be Evil = Be Exceedingly evil. Fair and Balanced: a non-existant state. Only a group that calls itself literalist can so readily deviate from that material without feeling a pang of guilt. Im just waitng for the days

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