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(crossposted from Right of Assembly)

Photobucket

(photo credit: Gina Ferazzi)

Gun show continues as scheduled

LA Times, 1/16

Some gun control advocates have said that holding a gun show so soon after a mass shooting was inappropriate and insensitive. They contend that stricter laws on purchases of guns and ammunition would help prevent shooting rampages.

But even as Tucson continued to mourn, and shooting victims were commemorated at the crime scene Saturday, Arizona's love affair with guns continued unabated 13 miles away. Buyers bought Glock 19s priced at $499 and 31-round magazines for $21.99.

The year is young, but so far I vote that "Best Photo, 2011."

(addenda) Maybe this is one of those things where we need photo captions. What is going on in that photo?

More addenda:

Hundreds shop up at Gun Show just one week after tragic shooting

From Kgun9, "On Your Side."

Templeton said, "We were impacted as everyone else was and saddened by the tragedy that happened a week ago this Saturday, but that was really not about lawful gun ownership, in our opinion. It was about a madman who had an agenda and who committed unspeakable acts of mayhem and violence."

When asked if he felt it was inappropriate to hold the gun show so early after the shooting, Templeton told KGUN 9, "We considered that and wondered if it would be but these folks that come to this gun show are regulars who come four or five times a year, and this is about exercising second amendment freedoms and individual gun rights, it's not about uhh, a person who takes the law into his own hands and does the kinds of things that Jerrod Loughner allegedly did."

As for the increase in gun sales since the shooting, Templeton said, "I don't think it's a response as much to the tragic incident, as it is to the fact that people are concerned about their gun rights."

Also Of Interest: (update)

Arizona Shootings Trigger Surge in Glock Sales Amid Fear of Ban

Bloomberg, 1/11

Greg Wolff, the owner of two Arizona gun shops, told his manager to get ready for a stampede of new customers after a Glock-wielding gunman killed six people at a Tucson shopping center on Jan. 8.

Wolff was right. Instead of hurting sales, the massacre had the $499 semi-automatic pistols -- popular with police, sport shooters and gangsters -- flying out the doors of his Glockmeister stores in Mesa and Phoenix.

"We’re at double our volume over what we usually do," Wolff said two days after the shooting spree that also left 14 wounded, including Democratic Representative Gabrielle Giffords, who remains in critical condition.

Glockmeister. Wow. That's so special.

Originally posted to The Miep Channel on Sat Jan 15, 2011 at 09:44 PM PST.

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Comment Preferences

  •  Tips for photographers (18+ / 0-)

    "One should always be a little improbable." - Oscar Wilde

    by Miep on Sat Jan 15, 2011 at 09:41:05 PM PST

  •  It's a religion. (11+ / 0-)

    You have exactly 10 seconds to change that look of disgusting pity into one of enormous respect!

    by Cartoon Peril on Sat Jan 15, 2011 at 10:07:44 PM PST

  •  The television's call letters... (5+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    wader, blueoasis, GlowNZ, Mike Taylor, Miep

    spell "K-gun." Ironic.

    A couple other random thoughts and observations.

    I am not surprised in the least that the show wasn't cancelled. I'm sure such a decision would be seen as a giant betrayal to the cause and result in a lifetime revocation of one's NRA membership.

    While I think the run on guns that's clearly related to the massacre is appalling, I would imagine there is more to it than just a knee-jerk reaction to go "shoot-em-up." It is probably also driven by a fear that certain of their toys will be banned and they want to either stock up or invest before that happens.

    Last, while the guy in the cowboy hat looks like he's probably a reasonably decent sort when the subject isn't guns, the two knuckleheads to his right are demonstrably mouth-breathers.

  •  Arizona Shootings Trigger Surge in Glock Sales (5+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    cinnamondog, wader, SadieB, rainmanjr, Miep

    *

    Greg Wolff, the owner of two Arizona gun shops, told his manager to get ready for a stampede of new customers after a Glock-wielding gunman killed six people at a Tucson shopping center on Jan. 8.

    Wolff was right. Instead of hurting sales, the massacre had the $499 semi-automatic pistols -- popular with police, sport shooters and gangsters -- flying out the doors of his Glockmeister stores in Mesa and Phoenix.

  •  All gun shows should be banned (7+ / 0-)

    there is no good reason to have a gun show.  If you want a gun, go get one through a proper shop and sumbit to a background check.

    RIP Pike Miners We will never forget

    by GlowNZ on Sat Jan 15, 2011 at 10:26:21 PM PST

    •  Glow, I respect your sentiment (10+ / 0-)

      but that won't work, at least not here.

      The USA needs more openness, not less. We are a secretive people.

      And if you argue to ban gun shows, that opens up so many cans of worms.

      The guns aren't the problem. Our culture is the problem.

      We have a violent and corrupt culture here. Arguing to ban guns will not address that. It won't work.

      We have SO many problems here and they are so deep-rooted.

      "One should always be a little improbable." - Oscar Wilde

      by Miep on Sat Jan 15, 2011 at 10:31:14 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  sorry (13+ / 0-)

        but GUNS are the problem.  Yes  the culture is too, but GUNS kill a hell of a lot more than a knife would say There is no need whatsoever for anyone to have a semi automatic weapon.

        Yes, the culture is violent but the solution is not to say guns aren't part of the problem.  It quite clearly is since the alleged shooter used  A GUN and not anything else to kill those poor folks.

        You can do something about guns AS WELL AS talk about the violent culture that we live in.

        RIP Pike Miners We will never forget

        by GlowNZ on Sat Jan 15, 2011 at 10:33:54 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  You're right (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          PinHole, Drewid, Just Call Me Jay

          Guns are part of the problem. They're not all of the problem, though.

          I wish all the semi and totally automatic weapons would melt into their respective floors tomorrow.

          I also wish that manufacturing handguns would somehow mysteriously become impossible.

          I wish all we had left were rifles and shotguns.

          But I'm not likely to be going to get my wish anytime soon, and you aren't either.

          And on top of that, we're in a really horrible political environment to push hard on a lot of this.

          It won't work. It will just backfire. It will possibly result in more people being murdered.

          This country is failing, Glow.

          I have family in New Zealand. I wish I'd worked out to move there. I have no idea what you're doing hanging around here. Your home country is so fantastic.

          "One should always be a little improbable." - Oscar Wilde

          by Miep on Sat Jan 15, 2011 at 10:43:35 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  Gun shows are one of the problems (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Just Call Me Jay

            because they allow people to buy & sell guns with no background checks. Even though our background check requirements are a joke, at least they provide a bit of a speedbumb to convicted felons.

            •  So fight for funding of the system. (3+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              rockhound, buddabelly, Miep

              Don't curse the darkness that is the result of republicans defunding the systems and programs that cure people's downtrodden abused hearts from turning black. Fight to light a lamp of good social safety net and equal real opportunity for all and a living wage for all and mental health care for those who have been damaged in some way.

              Take one weapon away from a determined individual, that individual will find another weapon. I'm personally glad it was a gun and not another Tim McVeigh bomb! Most people survive gunshots, even Gabby shows a point blank shot to the head is survivable, but another tim mcveigh bomb would have been MUCH worse.

              ~~It Takes A Village To Keep The Peace~~~()~~~(-7.12, -5.54)

              by JayFromPA on Sun Jan 16, 2011 at 05:57:15 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  There's no reason not to do both. (3+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                PinHole, blueoasis, Miep

                As long as it's easier to get a gun than a job we're in trouble.

                •  You mean "well paying" job, right? eom. (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  buddabelly

                  ~~It Takes A Village To Keep The Peace~~~()~~~(-7.12, -5.54)

                  by JayFromPA on Sun Jan 16, 2011 at 06:34:26 AM PST

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  No, I mean jobs. (3+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    PinHole, blueoasis, Miep

                    Unemployment is around 10%. One opening at a utility district is getting four hundred applicants.

                    •  My downstairs neighbor needs a living wage. (2+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      buddabelly, Miep

                      He's absolutely correct when he says that he needs a job that will provide survival.

                      If you need a grand a month to live, and the only jobs pay 800, no matter what that is not enough to live.

                      There is a minimum required amount for life, variable by locality. Fall below that amount by 200 is just as unsustainable as falling below that amount by 800.

                      We need jobs of a wage that will sustain a family. It's worse for society to have those 400 applicants take 800 half-wage jobs than them to take 400 living wage jobs, due to the extra work hours and subsequent home tension and quality of life.

                      We need living wage jobs, period. Anything less will not solve anything, but will allow limping along for a while in a continued descent, and will create even more anger and tension in the home.

                      ~~It Takes A Village To Keep The Peace~~~()~~~(-7.12, -5.54)

                      by JayFromPA on Sun Jan 16, 2011 at 07:29:20 AM PST

                      [ Parent ]

            •  False. Pure false. (5+ / 0-)

              If the guns are sold by FFL dealers, the buyer must pass a background check. If it's a private sale, it need not - but private sellers at gun shows tend to specialize in historical pieces, curios, and relics.

              Non enim propter gloriam, diuicias aut honores pugnamus set propter libertatem solummodo quam Nemo bonus nisi simul cum vita amittit. -Declaration of Arbroath

              by Robobagpiper on Sun Jan 16, 2011 at 05:57:34 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

            •  All the laws that apply in any other venue... (0+ / 0-)

              apply at gun shows.

        •  I caught one of those (7+ / 0-)

          "Guns don't kill people" posts on facebook one day from one of my "friends." I commented that "yes, guns don't kill people, people kill people. Guns just make it a whole lot easier!"

          •  yes, exactly (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            aitchdee, rainmanjr, Drewid

            But why do we need to be so concerned about our need to kill each other, what's that about?

            "One should always be a little improbable." - Oscar Wilde

            by Miep on Sat Jan 15, 2011 at 10:49:36 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  It's about having your own way (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Miep

              It's about POWER & CONTROL.  

              Too often it's about people who do not have brains capable of reasoning, resorting to an answer with a gun.

              It's about Jared's twisted thinking - that he was insulted by Rep Giffords, and deciding to get revenge. (Probably a combo of schizophrenia, genes & poor parenting)

        •  That just loses elections for us. (5+ / 0-)

          Some form of background check, whether for history of mental or legal or both, is certainly possible now but banning guns is right out of the Dem play book.  Such talk only loses elections and doesn't stand up in court.  Ask Chicago.

          "Put on your high-heeled sneakers/it's Party time" - Steely Dan.

          by rainmanjr on Sat Jan 15, 2011 at 10:58:49 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  The people that are the gun advocates don't (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            SadieB

            vote democratic anyway. We do not lose elections because of them.  In order to win, dem's have to get the people that do not vote to the polls to offset the gun owners.  Only 34% of the households in this country own guns.    

            THE GREATNESS OF A NATION AND ITS MORAL PROGRESS CAN BE JUDGED BY THE WAY ITS ANIMALS ARE TREATED. -Gandhi

            by lakehillsliberal on Sat Jan 15, 2011 at 11:02:50 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

          •  I don't think the Chicago ban (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            SadieB

            being overturned lost anybody any elections here in Chicago ... on the contrary, when Daley decided to hang it up after 50 years, it was not because his support had eroded, but more because of his wife's health and other 'where he is in his life right now' factors.  And maybe the city being stone broke had something to do with it.  

            And Rahm Emmanuel is almost universally expected to step right in to Daley's office/shoes and continue the Dem rule that has been in effect here since -- well, since before I was born, in 1955.  Gery Chico is giving him a wee bit of a run, but if there is a GOP challenger, I have yet to hear that person's name!

            I agree that the Dems nationally believe (and probably with good reason) that espousing gun control loses elections for them; but they haven't tried to work up a reasonable g/c platform and counterweight it with other things.  They probably won't, either.  I wish they would, but I don't expect it.

            "It's not getting any smarter out there. You have to come to terms with stupidity, and make it work for you." (Frank Zappa)

            by cinnamondog on Sun Jan 16, 2011 at 05:05:33 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  if you think Chicago is representative of anythin (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              PinHole, wishbone

              but itself you're very mistaken.....even the rest of Illinois hates Chicago for the most part.....

              Vaya con Dios Don Alejo
              I want to die a slave to principles. Not to men.
              Emiliano Zapata

              by buddabelly on Sun Jan 16, 2011 at 06:24:25 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  I don't think Chicago is representative (0+ / 0-)

                of anything, I was replying to a comment that referenced the Chicago gun ban and conflated Dem election losses with the party espousing gun control.  I'm not sure what 'the rest of Illinois hates Chicago' has to do with that.

                "It's not getting any smarter out there. You have to come to terms with stupidity, and make it work for you." (Frank Zappa)

                by cinnamondog on Sun Jan 16, 2011 at 09:36:41 AM PST

                [ Parent ]

          •  Sometimes you have to stand up for what's right (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            PinHole

            instead of being afraid.

            Progressives SHOULD go after gun violence and there is plenty of low-hanging fruit:

            1. Close the gunshow loophole that allows convicted felons and people on the terrorist watchlist to buy weapons with no background check
            1. Shut down the grey market, that network of licensed dealers (like the store that sold the DC sniper his weapons) who repeatedly break the law. Right now the ATF is powerless against the grey market because the NRA, with Congress's help, has tied their hands
        •  They're certainly a force multiplier, I agree n/t (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Miep

          "So, please stay where you are. Don't move and don't panic. Don't take off your shoes! Jobs is on the way."

          by wader on Sat Jan 15, 2011 at 11:40:19 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

      •  I would be happy is the shows were more (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        SadieB, Krush, Miep

        regulated. The video's that I have seen of these shows indicate that the gun sellers flout the laws for I.D. and other paperwork.  I believe gun shows are where many criminals get their guns.

        THE GREATNESS OF A NATION AND ITS MORAL PROGRESS CAN BE JUDGED BY THE WAY ITS ANIMALS ARE TREATED. -Gandhi

        by lakehillsliberal on Sat Jan 15, 2011 at 10:59:55 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  I don't know anything about gun shows (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          lakehillsliberal

          There are bloggers here who likely do. I haven't seen any of the RKBA people in this comment thread. I'd appreciate their feedback.

          "One should always be a little improbable." - Oscar Wilde

          by Miep on Sat Jan 15, 2011 at 11:01:46 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  Here's how it works, Miep. (11+ / 0-)

            First you have to understand that firearms transfers (any form of A provides gun to B, regardless of whether money changes hands) are regulated by both State and Federal law.

            So, first with the Feds.

            1. All firearms transfers that occur through a Federal Firearms Licensee (FFL), aka a "gun dealer", must use the National Instant Check System. The way NICS works is that the prospective recipient fills out a form, under penalty of perjury as well as a bunch of specific other penalties, and the FFL submits the information to NICS. The FFL gets back either a "yes", a "no", or a "hold". The answer determines whether or not the FFL is allowed to transfer the firearm.
            1. For transfers not occurring through an FFL, the rules are:

            a) Intrastate transfers are not regulated by Federal law.

            b) Interstate transfers of long guns are legal, provided that the transfer would be legal in the state where it occurs as well as in the home states of both parties.

            c) All interstate transfers of handguns must go through an FFL

            Note that none of the Federal laws mention where the transfer takes place (other than the interstate/inrastate distinction). The difference lies in who the parties are, not where they are. Thus, there is no such thing as a "gun show loophole" Intrastate private transfers are simply not regulated under Federal law.

            Now the States get into the act.

            Most states do not impose additional conditions beyond Federal law. Some do.

            Illinois requires a discretionary-issue Firearms Owner Identification card for anyone to purchase firearms or ammunition in Illinois. I believe New Jersey is the same, and New York City.

            California has no such system, but all firearms transfers, except for those between immediate family members, to go through an FFL. The FFLs are allowed to charge fees for this. Other state vary widely, but none are allowed to be lest restrictive than Federal law.

            Firearms law at the Federal level is pretty simple, so long as you don't get into NFA territory, and most people never do. State laws are, as you would expect in a Federal system, varied and occasionally very complicated.

            The laws tend to be more complicated in places where the government is not disposed to trust it's citizens with arms... the crime rate tends to be higher too, but that's another discussion.

            --Shannon

            "It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees." -- Emiliano Zapata Salazar
            "Dissent is patriotic. Blind obedience is treason." --me

            by Leftie Gunner on Sun Jan 16, 2011 at 12:15:31 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

        •  No-one flouted any laws. (0+ / 0-)

          And according to the FBI, a very tiny minority of crime guns come from gun shows.

    •  Most of the sales at gun shows... (7+ / 0-)

      ...are, in fact, done through proper shops at the shows.

      Yes, in many states, private transactions take place, and those do not require a background check. I wish this were different. In Oregon, fortunately, private transactions at gun shows do require background checks. Unfortunately, that means that they can get around the background check by walking across the street. I do wish that the private sale loophole were closed.

    •  AMEN. (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Miep, FiredUpInCA

      Sarah Palin is a self described Political Rogue. And she likes GUNS

      by Krush on Sat Jan 15, 2011 at 11:31:09 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  See 1st Amendment, Freedom of Assembly. (0+ / 0-)

      Run from a knife, rush a gun.

      by ben masel on Sun Jan 16, 2011 at 07:26:38 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  Checks are run at gun shows. (0+ / 0-)

      All the same laws apply at gun shows as apply at all other venues.

  •  Who is this Templeton guy? (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    liberte, Roadbed Guy, rainmanjr, Miep

    Haven't clicked the link yet, but this comment alarms me.

    a person who takes the law into his own hands

    This wasn't some fucking vigilante kiling. This wasn't somebody killing the person who killed their family members, or whatever. This was a deliberate multiple homicide. This wasn't someone who was wronged and sought justice outside of the law, this was a deliberate attempt to take as many lives as possible. How can this Templeton guy describe it in such a way. Scary.

    •  I distrust the link, of course (5+ / 0-)

      At the same time, I think the perp is bad crazy.

      I keep forgetting his name. I don't really want to type his name.

      Did you read G2Geek's essay about stochastic terrorism? I think he made a lot of good solid points with that. The evil PTB may well be looking for teh crazy, to puppet, as they are working to be puppetmasters.

      It happens all the time on less critical social levels. Puppeteers looking for puppets.

      "A cage went in search of a bird. " Kafka.

      "One should always be a little improbable." - Oscar Wilde

      by Miep on Sat Jan 15, 2011 at 10:38:08 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Yeah, (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        PinHole, Miep

        I missed G2G diary, tagged it to read later. The link is from the local ABC affiliate. The guy Templeton is the president of the gun show.
        He opens by saying this:

        It was about a madman who had an agenda and who committed unspeakable acts of mayhem and violence

        Typical canned response, I just find it telling that he worked

        a person who takes the law into his own hands

        in somehow. It's disturbing that he can see it that way.

        •  Jared took his illness into his own hands - (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          buddabelly

          and the probable extension thereof.  His parents & school didn't follow up & come to grips with his bizarre behavior. Even as mental health service are being cut in AZ, this road seemed to have started at least a year ago. If his parents & the CC had not washed their hands of requiring that he get help, this probably won't have happened.  

          Had nothing to do with "the law."

      •  You can do it on purpose. (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        buddabelly, rainmanjr, Miep

        I keep forgetting his name. I don't really want to type his name.

        I still can't bring to mind the name of whoever it was that killed John Lennon.  At the time I made a conscious effort to gloss over it in articles, shunt it quickly out of short-term memory when I heard it (remember 'stacks' in early, basic computing?), and forget it.  Sometimes that's all you can do.  But:

        His claim to the immortality he craved is invalid with me.

        Please don't...

        It ain't called paranoia - when they're really out to get you. 6 points.

        by Jaime Frontero on Sat Jan 15, 2011 at 10:54:25 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

    •  Yes, it seems like the legitimate authorities (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      SadieB

      aren't convicting and executing Democratic members of Congress and Federal Judges fast enough - so this citizen just took things into his own hands to speed things up.  That's all.

  •  Aargh (5+ / 0-)

    "I don't think it's a response as much to the tragic incident, as it is to the fact that people are concerned about their gun rights."

    Why? Fucking Why?

    Who is coming for your guns?

    I'll tell you who.

    Nobody.

    Strawman Commandante Obama has gone from being a sad falsehood, to divorced from reality, to now being a Monty Python-esque grand absurdity.

    Even John Lovitz's legendary "Liar" character has too much shame and self-awareness to say that kind of shit with a straight face.

    The Moon magically being made of pigshit and shoeleather is closer to reality than "Gun Grabbin' Obama and the creeping tide of the Great Leftist Gun Grab of 20-whatever".

    Nobody with any real power is talking about, or has been talking about, 'coming for your guns'.

    Obama certainly isn't. The Democratic Party leadership isn't. The rank and file may have individual members who talk about tepid, completely reasonable tweaks to existing laws, but odds are that those calls will be muted or fall by the wayside in a matter of a few more weeks.  

    Nobody who has any real power in Washington DC is remotely threatening your fucking gun rights. Not even the botched assassination attempt turned into an act of mass murder, including the murder of a child, has caused even a tick of change in the status-quo.

    The Great Gun Control Debate hasn't been anything but kabuki theatre and red meat bullshit for the paranoid since I was in high school.

    I don't think there is a bigger faux bullshit "debate" in all of American politics right now than the idea that gun owner's rights are under siege.

    I have owned a gun, have fired many different kinds of guns and rifles in my life in the presence of shooting professionals on a closed range, and have no problem with reasonable gun regulation.

    But I can't stand this bullshit.

    This utter total and complete fucking nonsense that I hear all the fucking time because there is a Democrat in the White House.

    A Democratic candidate is more likely to go on a ridiculously staged, and painfully obviously at that, hunting trip to shoot some ducks with some closeted member of the Oligarchy Express who is a favorite son the Reasonable Centrist Think Tanks than get into a major gun control 'kerfuffle'.

    Obama and American gun ownership in reality, and Obama and American gun ownership in the delusional fantasy of Tea Baggers and wingnuts, has become so vastly divorced from reality that it causes me actual physical pain when I hear this paranoid delusional nonsense about "they are coming to confiscate old Betsy and old Blue from my gun rack any minute now".

    A bill guaranteeing that a deeply disturbed mentally ill person should have the right to several appeals before being denied a high-powered rifle or handgun is more likely to happen than a huge debate about firearms control that could roll back gun rights in the America of 2011.

    And everybody knows it's a bullshit debate, even the biggest Koch Brother Cultist knows is just about fundraising and freak-outs.

    The Democratic Party, while still having some voices calling for re-examining gun control from time to time, has largely completely surrendered on the issue of gun control in the name of negating it as an issue in Presidential elections. They didn't even lose. They quit. The party made a calculated decision to stop in an attempt to take a bludgeon off the Rove/Atwater wall of whoop ass.

    It's a classic example of why I have been rapidly losing respect for the Democratic Party as a political institution as we head towards the 2012 Presidential election. They don't even get beat, they quit, surrender, and compromise with themselves in the name of avoiding a beating, until the GOP is ready to really lay a new beatdown on them, a beatdown that always catches them all by fucking surprise.

    I'm more afraid we are going to wake up one day and discover we are having a serious debate about a return to corporate security firm-run debtors prisons for poor people than a rolling back of gun rights.

    I get that paranoia sells on the far Right.
    I get that keeping stupid and angry people really stupid and really angry is the ticket to the promised land.

    But 'my gun rights are threatened'?

    Please.

    My freedom is more threatened by credit card companies being free to ratfuck me in a new and novel way thanks to some Heritage Foundation policy draft from a decade or two ago being used as the 'bipartisan' framework to 'free up the credit markets' than your gun rights are by feckless Democrats who are terrified of a fight.

    We have been charting a firmly, almost militantly, Centrist course as a party for the last 20 years. Freely glomming onto to various Movement Conservative positions, including their patently false talking points and canards if necessary, in the endless pursuit of 'taking things off the table we might lose elections over'.

    And all that happens is that the middle keeps getting pushed further and further and further to the Right.

    The aggrieved and put-upon rhetoric, the language of victimization and oppression, from people who are being catered to, deferred to, as if they are being actively and viciously oppressed, is just too fucking much for me to bear some days.  

    Gun Control isn't even my issue, but listening to the militant Second Amendment Paranoids of America makes me long for the Democratic Party that only exists in their myths and fantasies.

    These aggrieved motherfuckers who want to walk around like the Magnificent Seven in Church and at the Gap should have all popped a beer and relaxed a long time ago. Alan Simpson and the Peterson Foundation are both unimpeachable guiding lights on deficit reduction, after they both spent the 1980's helping to create the supply-side mega-deficits, and the Bush Tax Cuts for the Rich got blackmailed into an extension.  

    I live in Nevada.

    When I see Glock sales surge, in response to an assassination where a Glock was the weapon of choice, becuase that means that Strawman Obama must be coming for the Glocks next, when nothing of the sort is happening at all, it's just another reminder to laugh my ass off at how fucking batshit insane my beloved country has become.

    •  Thank you diarist (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      SadieB, Miep, jan4insight

      this was at least a little temporary dose of catharsis, getting this out of my system.

    •  You just have to wonder if many of these (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      SadieB, PinHole, Miep, jan4insight

      gun owners were required to take a mental stability test if they would pass.  This paranoid obsession with guns is really not a sign of a healthy mind.

      THE GREATNESS OF A NATION AND ITS MORAL PROGRESS CAN BE JUDGED BY THE WAY ITS ANIMALS ARE TREATED. -Gandhi

      by lakehillsliberal on Sat Jan 15, 2011 at 10:57:27 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  Given that (11+ / 0-)

      by far the majority of proposed supply-side gun control laws have come from Democrats, and even more so from the left-hand side of the Democratic Party, I don't see how you can describe those who do not want such laws to exist as "paranoid," when Democrats come into power and immediately start talking about, if not actually enacting, things like a reinstatement of the 1994 "Assault Weapons" Ban.

      Or when, within a day or two of any nationally-publicized tragedy where the weapon of choice was a firearm, Democratic legislators start talking about prhibiting the ownership of whatever the particular perpetrator used to commit his or her particular crime.

      This fear, on the part of people who view their Second Amendment rights as being as inviolable as their First Amendment rights, is entirely justified, based solely on the actual behavior and public statements of the Democratic leadership over the last 30 years.

      There really, truly is a segment of the Democratic Party that "wants to take your guns away". Dianne Feinstein and Chuck Schumer are but two prominent examples. Less prominent, but no less real, are those here on DailyKos who, by their own words, would restrict the right to keep and bear arms to the point of meaninglessness... to a point where, instead of a right, there would be only a very limited privilege that could only be exercised by permission of government.

      Until such time as we liberals and Democrats accept that we are talking about rights and not privileges, and give up entirely on trying to prevent the average citizen from owning the firearms that they want to own, then the charge that "they're trying to take your guns away" will be based in fact, and people who value that freedom will be entirely justified in voting the other way.

      --Shannon

      "It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees." -- Emiliano Zapata Salazar
      "Dissent is patriotic. Blind obedience is treason." --me

      by Leftie Gunner on Sun Jan 16, 2011 at 02:55:08 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  You might say that it is a right.... (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        SadieB

        ...but that's scarcely an argument at all. Why do you support the Second Amendment? Why should it not be removed from the Constitution as an error, just as tolerating slavery was an error, just as denying the franchise to women was an error?

        There is no coherent argument for continued support for the Second Amendment. You can't say it deserves to be supported simply because it is there, because other things that were originally there as well have been modified or abolished.

        All the other rights in the Constitution can be easily supported with simple, pragmatic arguments. Nearly all of them are found in most or all other democratic societies, demonstrating a general consensus on their necessity. Try that with the "right" to bear arms, though, and all I usually hear is "it's a right because it's a right because it's a right...." endlessly repeated.

        Guns are intrinsically dangerous instruments with real but limited uses. Why shouldn't the government take away all guns whose owners cannot plead the excuse of such uses?

        In the end, you will have to admit that your guns are totally useless in preserving your freedom. All they do is create a false consciousness of utility, behind which you reconcile yourself to losing your liberties bit by bit, crooning over your weapons fantasizing you'll take your rights back one day. Guns are the American adult's political pacifier, and those who value them are simply suckers.

        •  And if you do, in fact, want to (8+ / 0-)

          eliminate the 2nd Amendment, then Article V provides a clear path to doing so.

          Get to work.

          But until such time as you succeed, that limitation on the powers of government remains in effect, and you're stuck with it.

          Of course, if your side had ever felt that they actually had the support necessary to accomplish that goal, they'd have tried it. But they always knew that they could not. So instead, they've tried working around the edges, based on a theory of interpretation that is now null.

          Your side is now stuck with the fact that, barring an amendment to the Constitution, the "Right of the People to Keep and Bear Arms" is a fundamental, enumerated, individual right... one which will likely, within a couple of years, be protected by strict scrutiny, at least at its core, and by intermediate scrutiny outside that core.

          Short of Article V, all of your proposals will from now own have to fit inside that framework.

          Of course, I don't want my government to infringe any of my rights... no matter how good of an idea they think it is. There are limits to our consent, to the permission that allows our government to exist at all. The Bill of Rights establishes some of those limits.

          --Shannon

          "It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees." -- Emiliano Zapata Salazar
          "Dissent is patriotic. Blind obedience is treason." --me

          by Leftie Gunner on Sun Jan 16, 2011 at 03:54:15 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

        •  Oh, and as to WHY I support the 2nd Amendment... (7+ / 0-)

          It is primarily because I do not think that my, or any citizens, freedom of action should be proscribed unless I (or they) have personally committed some offense against another.

          Fundamentally, it comes down to "innocent until proven guilty". Unless and until I act, the State has no grounds to assume that I might be dangerous, and certainly no grounds to treat me as if I were dangerous.

          Which is what all of the supply-side gun control laws and proposed laws that I've ever heard of amount to. You're talking about restricting the liberty of your fellow citizens on the grounds that they may be dangerous, in the absence of any evidence that they actually are dangerous.

          I'm not OK with that, and the basic structure of our social contract isn't either.

          --Shannon

          "It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees." -- Emiliano Zapata Salazar
          "Dissent is patriotic. Blind obedience is treason." --me

          by Leftie Gunner on Sun Jan 16, 2011 at 05:21:20 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  So why do we arm criminals? (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            PinHole

            Convicted felons can buy guns at gun shows, through newspaper ads and from grey market dealers like the one who sold weapons to the DC sniper.

            Short answer, because it's profitable to the gun manufacturers lobby (aka NRA) to do so. They sell guns to criminals, then sell more guns to people who are afraid of criminals. They give obscene amounts of money to politicians to keep the whole thing going.

        •  You could say the same about the First Amendment (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          buddabelly, wishbone, PavePusher

          but that's scarcely an argument at all. Why do you support the Second Amendment? Why should it not be removed from the Constitution as an error, just as tolerating slavery was an error, just as denying the franchise to women was an error?

          The 1st amend as we now interpret it must have been an error. Look at all the violent/hateful speech we hear today. Look at the hateful pictures and cartoons. If only we could better manage the words people say and use in written works.

          "Don't part with your illusions. When they are gone you might still exist, but you have ceased to live." Mark Twain

          by Void Indigo on Sun Jan 16, 2011 at 07:02:48 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

  •  photo caption (5+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    SadieB, PinHole, JoesGarage, Miep, jan4insight

    "Grandpa's dick is in mortal danger".

    But I, being poor, have only my dreams; I have laid my dreams under your feet; tread softly, because you tread on my dreams. -- Yeats

    by Bill O Rights on Sat Jan 15, 2011 at 10:55:20 PM PST

  •  what could possibly go wrong (5+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    aitchdee, SadieB, rainmanjr, JoesGarage, Miep

    they look like responsible gun owners to me

    especially the skin heads

    Sarah Palin is a self described Political Rogue. And she likes GUNS

    by Krush on Sat Jan 15, 2011 at 10:55:40 PM PST

    •  I just think envy (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      SadieB, PinHole, Krush, rainmanjr

      is so charming in a young, automatic gun carrying man, don't you?

      "One should always be a little improbable." - Oscar Wilde

      by Miep on Sat Jan 15, 2011 at 10:57:33 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Especially when they are on meth. (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        SadieB, Miep

        Charmed, I'm sure

        Sarah Palin is a self described Political Rogue. And she likes GUNS

        by Krush on Sat Jan 15, 2011 at 11:02:42 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  you know, Krush (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          aitchdee

          I've read a lot about ADHD and how the docs treat it with varying sorts of amphetemine.

          So, maybe meth abusers are sometimes people who have a bad case of ADHD?

          I could go on and on about medicine, and who has the powers.

          I keep coming back to this though; sometimes there are meds we aren't allowed. Like marijuana.

          And the people who get rich making crappy head drugs, maybe are very good with marijuana being illegal.

          And maybe those people are also very good with coca leaves being illegal, even though chewing coca leaves is a mild and reasonable drug use, while using processed cocaine tends to kill people.

          Oh well. Just thinking.

          "One should always be a little improbable." - Oscar Wilde

          by Miep on Sat Jan 15, 2011 at 11:08:01 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  I have no idea. (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            PinHole, Miep, jan4insight

            All I know is those idiots look like neo nazi meth heads.

            And the old guy is not much in better shape all hopped up on patriotism.

            Sarah Palin is a self described Political Rogue. And she likes GUNS

            by Krush on Sat Jan 15, 2011 at 11:16:49 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  yeah (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Krush

              It's a great photo, isn't it?

              I'd love to meet the photographer.

              "One should always be a little improbable." - Oscar Wilde

              by Miep on Sat Jan 15, 2011 at 11:19:23 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

            •  Bill? Bill Frist? (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              rockhound, buddabelly

              Is that you?

              "A lie is not the other side of a story; it's just a lie."

              by happy camper on Sun Jan 16, 2011 at 06:04:55 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

            •  What's wrong with how the old guy looks? (5+ / 0-)

              "Hopped up on patriotism"?  He's not wearing any flags or a so-called patriotic t-shirt.

              He is dressed like a rancher, and there is a very good reason for dressing that way, as I discovered.

              I too used to assume that anyone who dressed like a 'cowboy' was doing it for effect, until I became a rancher myself.  Before that change, I had lived in big cities all over the world my whole life.

              Start with the boots he is wearing.  Believe it or not, ranches are not paved.  There is mud and manure everywhere.  There are heavy things to be dropped and hooves that can stomp on your feet.  You need a good pair of boots.

              Then the jeans.  I can't tell you how many different pairs of pants I ripped by snagging on wire, or stained.  Jeans are the toughest pair of pants you can wear, unless you feel like buying a new pair every week.

              The shirt is more traditional than practical.  When you are working out in the heat all day, you want something light.  A t-shirt would do, and I often wear one, but older folks don't feel as comfortable wearing them and prefer something more appropriate to their age.  That said, I find those shirts really cool and harder-wearing than t-shirts, so I often wear them myself.

              The biggest thing that city people snicker at is the cowboy hat.  Because it looks so different than what you are used to seeing.  But it is also the most practical item of clothing.

              Ranchers are usually outside all day in all weathers.  And not standing up straight with a hand free to hold an umbrella.  You need to be able to keep the rain out of your face and from rolling down the back of your neck.  You need to protect both your face and your neck from sunburn.  There are different styles of hats regionally, dependent on the weather, and here in Oregon we have a summer style that best combats the sun, and a winter style that best combats the rain.

              The gentleman above is wearing one to combat the sun.  It is lightweight and ventilated, so sweat doesn't build up and drip into your eyes.  It is a light color to reflect the heat, has a high crown to allow the air above the head to cool, and it provides a good deal of shade to all parts of the head.

              I dress exactly like the older man in the photo on a regular basis, and yes, I even carry the rifle at times.  Not because I am particularly patriotic (I even have an English accent), but because necessity drives that choice of clothing.

              And as a once-cosmopolitan liberal leftie, I find your comment quite shocking, ignorant and frankly insulting.  I didn't think we on the left stereotyped 'others' because they look different.

              •  It seems like many gun grabbers (0+ / 0-)

                especially some in this thread believe that being "reality-based" means  believing reality is what you want it be...

              •  Its not how he is dressed (0+ / 0-)

                it is the look of euphoria at having just purchased a
                weapon.

                I don't understand the weapon lovers. I guess it is a blind spot for me. Very big.

                He could very well just be happy that he got a good deal, or its a nice day, or whatever.

                I don't understand the love of guns. I never have.

                It is a blind spot for me. Thanks for calling me on it. I almost always assume people who want to purchase weapons have fantasies about being in a gun fight.

                Sarah Palin is a self described Political Rogue. And she likes GUNS

                by Krush on Sun Jan 16, 2011 at 12:58:08 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

    •  H.R. for the open bigotry. n/t (0+ / 0-)
  •  Responsible? Trained? Experienced? (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    PinHole, Krush, Miep, jan4insight

    One NEVER carries a gun, loaded or not, with the muzzle pointed down so that it swings as the carrier walks.  It's just plain stupid (as the carrier looks to be).

    "Put on your high-heeled sneakers/it's Party time" - Steely Dan.

    by rainmanjr on Sat Jan 15, 2011 at 11:03:33 PM PST

  •  I am at a loss... (12+ / 0-)

    ...to understand why these people should feel obligated to cancel the gun show because of the shootings.

    The two events are completely unrelated except for the tangential fact that "guns" are involved in both.

    (-5.50,-6.67): Left Libertarian
    Leadership doesn't mean taking a straw poll and then just throwing up your hands. -Jyrinx

    by Sparhawk on Sat Jan 15, 2011 at 11:21:44 PM PST

    •  We all need to talk about all of this (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Sparhawk, Ana Thema

      And I think that people who argue for gun rights need to be part of the dialog.

      "One should always be a little improbable." - Oscar Wilde

      by Miep on Sat Jan 15, 2011 at 11:24:34 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  I agree... (5+ / 0-)

        ...to an extent, but I'm not sure what gun owners can add to the conversation, or even what extensive conversation there is to be had by this event.

        As Freud said (I think it was him, I might be wrong), sometimes a cigar is just a cigar. Sometimes a senseless tragedy like this one is just a senseless tragedy. As humans, we like to assign meaning to things and categorize them, but sometimes a tragedy is just a tragedy. What's a gun owner going to say? "Yeah, it sucks that this happened. No, I'm not willing to give up any gun rights over it."

        (-5.50,-6.67): Left Libertarian
        Leadership doesn't mean taking a straw poll and then just throwing up your hands. -Jyrinx

        by Sparhawk on Sat Jan 15, 2011 at 11:53:01 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  You need to take some responsibility (4+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          sagesource, SadieB, PinHole, jan4insight

          for working with people who own guns.

          You need to take some responsibility for taking into consideration the fact that some of these people may have emotional disturbances.

          The more you want gun laws to be loose, the more it is YOUR responsibility when people acquire guns and shoot up people in grocery store parking lots.

          You need to get out there more and discipline your newbies. You need to make sure they know it's not okay to go around and shoot up politicians.

          If you are going to be in charge, you who are up for loose gun laws...then, it's in your lap, all of this. It's your responsibility. Do it.

          If you can't work that out, then you are just terrorists.

          Seriously. You want responsibility? You want freedom?

          You better earn it, because otherwise you're going to kill this country.

          "One should always be a little improbable." - Oscar Wilde

          by Miep on Sun Jan 16, 2011 at 12:00:18 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

    •  Out of respect for the families of those (6+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      fly, SadieB, PinHole, Krush, Miep, jan4insight

      maimed and killed by senseless gun violence.  The only thing that a gun is good for killing something(whether it is a human being or an animal), another reminder of that fact was not needed in Tucson.

      THE GREATNESS OF A NATION AND ITS MORAL PROGRESS CAN BE JUDGED BY THE WAY ITS ANIMALS ARE TREATED. -Gandhi

      by lakehillsliberal on Sat Jan 15, 2011 at 11:32:09 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Re (4+ / 0-)

        So you think, but people who share your politics might not agree.

        Should black churches have canceled masses because those two DC snipers a few years ago were black? Should Muslims have canceled mosque services after 9/11 (committed by devout Muslims)? Should Honda not hold an auto show a few days after a 120-car pileup that killed 10 people?

        These two events are not related in any sense. The gun show people have nothing at all to apologize for: they are doing something perfectly legal. The fact that you don't like it doesn't change that.

        (-5.50,-6.67): Left Libertarian
        Leadership doesn't mean taking a straw poll and then just throwing up your hands. -Jyrinx

        by Sparhawk on Sat Jan 15, 2011 at 11:46:39 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  You should work on (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          SadieB, PinHole

          why young men do crazy shit like what happened in Tucson.

          You should work on helping to stop that from happening. You are clearly involved with owning guns, and people who own guns.

          "One should always be a little improbable." - Oscar Wilde

          by Miep on Sat Jan 15, 2011 at 11:54:45 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

        •  The D.C. sniper did not use a service to kill any (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          SadieB, Miep, FiredUpInCA

          one, he used a GUN.  When you have 120 car pile up, it is usually weather related and they will often restrict access to the roads or try to reduce the risk so it doesn't happen again(they do it in California during extreme fog).  The point is except for guns, we  try to address the unlying conditions to prevent it from happening again.  With guns, we throw up our hands and ignore it, pretending we don't know how to prevent it.  We do, we just can't bring ourselves to do the right thing.    

          THE GREATNESS OF A NATION AND ITS MORAL PROGRESS CAN BE JUDGED BY THE WAY ITS ANIMALS ARE TREATED. -Gandhi

          by lakehillsliberal on Sun Jan 16, 2011 at 12:16:34 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

        •  Black churches don't generally have masses, (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          PinHole

          seeing as how they're mostly protestant.

      •  Open up your checkbook (4+ / 0-)

        And pay all the show's organizers' bills, from advertising to the rental fee on the venue to the expense of reimbursing the vendors' registration fees. Compensate the vendors for the lost sales, and for their travel expenses.

        If you do all this, they might consider canceling the show to assuage your hurt feelings.

        Non enim propter gloriam, diuicias aut honores pugnamus set propter libertatem solummodo quam Nemo bonus nisi simul cum vita amittit. -Declaration of Arbroath

        by Robobagpiper on Sun Jan 16, 2011 at 05:54:20 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  That would require them to value human life (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        PinHole

        more than their own privileges and fantasies. Not gonna happen.

    •  They aren't obligated to do anything. (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      PinHole

      It's just revealing of their priorities.

    •  The people who... (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      PavePusher

      ...want the gun show cancelled think like those who would ban a mosque near ground zero. Blame anyone but the criminals who committed the act of terror.

  •  im rapidly losing faith in this country. i (0+ / 0-)

    thought obama would represent a new leaf but it seems now that he was a blip. America has been wrecked by three decades of regean and bush and dems in the permanent fetal position. Its collapse is coming soon.

    Semper avarus eget.

    by Avarus on Sun Jan 16, 2011 at 12:44:09 AM PST

    •  I'm not at all sure how (6+ / 0-)

      you're getting there from here.

      That President Obama has done nothing to advance the agenda of gun control... that part I get. To the contrary, with the exception of his SCOTUS appointments, he has been far less hostile, even perhaps supportive, of the Right to Keep and Bear Arms than any President in my memory.

      What is confusing me is how anyone might thing that this would be contra a "new leaf", or in any sense predicative of collapse.

      --Shannon

      "It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees." -- Emiliano Zapata Salazar
      "Dissent is patriotic. Blind obedience is treason." --me

      by Leftie Gunner on Sun Jan 16, 2011 at 02:38:41 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Its not obama's gun policy in (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        PinHole, Miep

        particular. His election seemed like  a turning point. But the extreme gun fetish in this country, most recently discussed in the article, continues--in spite of this most recent spate of gun violence. No matter the circumstance or facts, Americans will continue to purse disastrous policies (like on guns but other issues too) even if the consequences are deadly.

        Semper avarus eget.

        by Avarus on Sun Jan 16, 2011 at 07:23:54 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

  •  He had a knife (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    SadieB, Miep

    Jared Loughner Carried Knife -- in Addition to Gun and Plenty of Ammo -- During Attack

    By James King, Fri., Jan. 14 2011

    ​It seems that even if Jared Loughner didn't own a gun, his murderous plan to attack Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords would have been carried out anyway.

    The Pima County Sheriff's Office says, in addition to the semi-automatic Glock handgun Loughner used to shoot 19 people, killing six, he also carried with him a knife -- it wasn't a huge knife, but it was definitely large enough to kill the congresswoman, his apparent target, had he decided to stab her rather than shoot her.

    Following his arrest, deputies found a four-inch buck knife on Loughner's person, as well as the Glock and two 15-round ammunition clips.

    Jared Loughner didn't use his knife. Typically firearms, rather thank knives are used, when you want to inflict significant harm.

    Murder Circumstances by Weapon (2009)

    Total 13,636

    Firearms  9146
    Knives     1825
    Blunt objects  611
    Hands, fist, feet  801
    Poison  6
    Explosives  2
    Fires  99
    Narcotics  45
    Strangulation  121
    Asphyxiation  77
    Other not stated  903

    fbi.gov crime statistics for 2009

    In order to inflict maximum harm, knives can't compete with the efficiency of a Glock 9 mm with a 30 round magazine.  

    The Director of the FBI and the Pima County Sheriff held a press conference this afternoon in which they revealed that Loughner fired 31 bullets. He did so from a thirty-round magazine (the “extra” bullet was stored in the chamber of the gun). This explains both the duration of the shooting (around 15 seconds) and the carnage caused.

    http://thetruthaboutguns.com/...

  •  Wait a seconde (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    SadieB, Miep, Ana Thema

    Templeton said, "We were impacted as everyone else was and saddened by the tragedy that happened a week ago this Saturday, but that was really not about lawful gun ownership, in our opinion. It was about a madman who had an agenda and who committed unspeakable acts of mayhem and violence."

    Didn't the assassin purchase a weapon legally?  Isn't that lawful gun ownership?

    It's about time I changed my signature.

    by Khun David on Sun Jan 16, 2011 at 03:36:02 AM PST

  •  I hate to be the one to tell you this but (8+ / 0-)

    the people in that photo are extremely, typically, American.

    Older guys do indeed own hunting rifles and go hunting, out west here many wear straw cowboy hats, cheap and keeps the sun off while allowing ventilation. He's got worn boots too, just might have a horse.

    Young twenty somethings shave their heads and sport gotees. I don't know if you've noticed but it's the way about 99% of them look, probably have tatoos also. Chances are that fancy bad ass zombie killing gun he bought back when work was plentiful costs too much to shoot, goes through amo quick, so he's off to sell it to make 2 payments on the car and buy a couple beers for Saturday night.

    The young guys aren't even registered to vote, but if they were they'd vote for Obama ok cause he's cool. The older guy votes Republican like he always has but thinks Obama is a nice guy.

    What you see there are three people who should be voting for Obama in 12, but most the people on this thread are doing thier level best to have them vote Palin.

    Good luck with that.

    "Don't fall or we both go." Derek Hersey 1957-1993

    by ban nock on Sun Jan 16, 2011 at 04:29:02 AM PST

  •  Of course not. Just look at that guy's face, (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    PinHole, Miep

    he's like, "People are looking at me! They're looking at me!"

    You know the gun show is the only time of the year that happens to him.

  •  This Is What Happens When We Have Special (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Miep

    interests (i.e. the NRA)working to undermine our gun laws. The NRA is just a lobbyist working for the gun and ammo. manufacturers. All they care about is selling guns - they don't care who they sell them to. Notice that the NRA uses the same BS argument to get their members whipped into a frenzy everytime Congress proposes common sense gun restrictions -"they are going to take away our guns!" Remember when the Brady handgun bill passed? Well, people still own handguns, so the NRA argument is pure bunk used to scare their members. My question is, Loughner was turned down by the military and was asked to leave by the Univ. of Arizona, so obviously there was a history of problems with him, yet he was able to buy a gun "lawfully?" We need to have a federal law that applies to ALL STATES that says if you want to own a gun, you must purchase it through a licensed dealer in a bona fide gun shop and submit to a background check. Sales of weapons at gun shows, flea markets, etc. should be outlawed nationally. Period. I don't care how many people scream about their second amendment rights - the public also has a RIGHT to be safe from deranged psychos and criminals who can drive to lenient gun law states and buy guns at these shows without any background check.

  •  Unfortunately Despite Sheriff Dupnik's Warnings (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Miep

    nothing is likely to change in Arizona. Unbelievably, the Arizona state legislature is actually considering letting students and teachers carry concealed weapons to class. Is Arizona nuts?  What if a teacher gives someone a failing grade, and the student gets pissed off? Now the student can bring a concealed weapon to class and go on a shooting spree? And please don't tell me that the teacher should just go out and buy a gun for protection in class. This country is turning into a paranoid, armed military camp, thanks to the NRA and crazy Republican legislators.

  •  footnote (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    buddabelly, Miep

    the 'gun show loopy-Ho'
    Doesn't exist in several states
    no private party sales
    CO passed this kinda legislation after columbine/NRA convention in Denver

    I'll bet not a single solitary "anti" knows a thing about what Im taking about, or how many crime scene guns can be traced to gun shows

    PROUDLY dressing like Tarzan growing my hair like Jane and smelling like -Cheetah- Cheetos since 1967

    by OMwordTHRUdaFOG on Sun Jan 16, 2011 at 08:29:41 AM PST

  •  Did y'all know that Gabby Giffords owns a Glock ? (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Samulayo, buddabelly, Miep

         I read it in the New York Times.

    When a President goin' through the White House door does what he says he'll do, we'll all be drinkin' that free Bubble-Up and eatin' that Rainbow Stew - Merle

    by Azazello on Sun Jan 16, 2011 at 08:43:42 AM PST

  •  Are you nuts??? (0+ / 0-)

    Of course the show won't be cancelled.  The vendors will make more money than ever and the organizers are cursing their luck at not having time to increase the booth rental fees.  They are going to get a record turnout.

    I don't belong to an organized political party. I'm a Democrat.

    by docterry on Sun Jan 16, 2011 at 10:32:37 AM PST

    •  Did I ever suggest it would be cancelled? (0+ / 0-)

      Dog, but I hate it when people ask me if I'm nuts. It's so hostile.

      "One should always be a little improbable." - Oscar Wilde

      by Miep on Sun Jan 16, 2011 at 06:47:31 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

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