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You are in the the 109th Child Diary of the Liveblog of the 2011 Egyptian Uprising and other uprisings spreading throughout the Mideast.  We stand with our international friends and their courageous struggle for dignity and human rights.

BAHRAIN:
Al Jazeera Live Blog reports that Bahrain now beginning to get International attention Also at that link, chilling reports of doctors being among the patients because they were attacked while attending the wounded. How many dead is unknown because:

17:02pm Al Jazeera's correspondent says that three more bodies are being kept in the morgue of Salmaniya hospital. There are also reports of another victim - a young girl. Two more patients are fighting for their lives in the hospital. There are also a lot of missing people. A medical source told our correspondent that the army may have taken away bodies in a refrigerated truck.

More regional tidbits after the fold....

PLEASE REC THIS DIARY!  We are changing this policy for now, as we navigate our new DK4 environment and the changing nature of events which we are following. Thank you!

LIBYA: Protests continue today. From CNN World:

Death, injuries reported in spreading Libyan protests
 

YEMEN: From MSNBC:

SANAA, Yemen — Security forces have clashed with anti-government protesters in Yemen on the seventh consecutive day of demonstrations calling for the ouster of the president, a key U.S. ally.
Witnesses say government supporters wielding batons and daggers were also involved in fighting with protesters trying to move to downtown squares in Sanaa, the capital.

As with Mubarak's regime, "pro-government" thugs are out:

IRAN: Is Iran sending warships through the Suez Canal? Iranian officials say yes. Egyptian officials say there has been no authorization. Israeli officials claim it is an act of provocation.

ALGERIA: There is a new English-speaking blog from Algerian journalists:

On Saturday February 12th, about ten thousand ( 10,000) protesters walked in the streets of the Algerian capital to vocalize their despair for a changed regime. Not a change of presidency, but an entire change of the Algerian political system that has been in place since 1962.

As ten thousand protesters were preparing to walk on the morning of the 12, an equal number of police force invaded the city’s main arteries to prevent the march from growing exponentially. One must not forget that the 10,000 police officers that showed up literally overnight were an addition to the 20,000 police officers brought out two weeks earlier for a peaceful march that burgeonned the hope to a change in Algeria.

JORDAN: Protests continued around Jordan, while most are seeking reforms for a more representative parliament and limited powers for the king, there is also this:

Meanwhile, Jordanian tribesmen, demanding return of their agricultural land the government took by force in the early 1980s, blocked the road to Amman's international airport.

A member of the Bani Sakhr tribe claimed that the government had taken 2,200 hectares of land from the tribesmen to built the airport and has not compensated them.

EGYPT: Amnesty International released a report accusing the Egyptian military of torturing protesters during the 18-day uprising.

Workers are still striking. 1,500 protested for better pay at the Suez Canal today.

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It bears repeating - Please REC THIS DIARY

What our Egyptian brethren are fighting for according a banner held by protesters and translated to English:

1 The departure of Moubarak
2 An end to the current Parliament
3 An end of the state of emergency
4 The creation of a national united government
5 A parliament elected by the people to modify the constitution and run the presidentials elections
6 Put those responsible for the killings on trial
7 Put those responsible for stealing the country's money and other acts of corruption on trial

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Resources:

Note: The Mothership Diary is the place to go for a complete list of resources.

Al Jazeera English - Watch Live (the Youtube link below should work for Mac users unable to load this.)

Al Jazeera live also available on
   Dish Network channel 9410
   DirecTV: Channel 375 Link

Al Jazeera Live on YouTube
  English Stream    http://www.youtube.com/...
  Arabic Stream    http://www.youtube.com/...

BBC Reports
BBC Middle East is doing specific Egypt coverage

WorldWideTahrir{NEW} : Worldwide protests being organized to coincide with the upcoming ones in Egypt.
bicycle Hussein paladin - Why Iran 1979 Went to the Islamists and This One Won't
weasel - Updates on the Egyptian Protests

People to follow on twitter:
@sharifkouddous
@monasosh
@ioerror
@ElBaradei
@SultanAlQassemi
@evanchill
@glcarlstrom
@nolanjazeera
@3arabawy
@shadihamid
@bencnn
@arabist
@speaktotweet: Egyptian Voice Tweets on Twitter

Previous Child Diaries:
EgyptRegion Liveblog: Sub-Diary #108 by unaspenser
EgyptRegion Liveblog: Sub-Diary #107 by unaspenser
EgyptRegion Liveblog: Sub-Diary #106 by dmac
Egypt Liveblog: Sub-Diary #104 by noblinkers
Egypt Liveblog: Sub-Diary #103 by dmac
Egypt Liveblog: Sub-Diary #102 by standingup
Egypt Liveblog: Sub-Diary #101 by bluedragon
Egypt Liveblog: Sub-Diary #100 by justjennifer
Egypt Liveblog: Sub-Diary #99 by lotlizard
Egypt Liveblog: Sub-Diary #98 by cosmic debris
Egypt Liveblog: Sub-Diary #97 by kimoconnor
Egypt Liveblog: Sub-Diary #96 by soysauce
Egypt Liveblog: Sub-Diary #95 by dmac
Egypt Liveblog: Sub-Diary #94 by sallycat
Egypt Liveblog: Sub-Diary #93 by standingup
Egypt Liveblog: Sub-Diary #92 by greenbird
Egypt Liveblog: Sub-Diary #91- by bluedragon
Egypt Liveblog: Sub-Diary #90- by glownz
Egypt Liveblog: Sub-Diary #89 by davehouk
Egypt Liveblog: Sub-Diary #88 by JustJennifer
Egypt Liveblog: Sub-Diary #87 by jnhobbs
Egypt Liveblog: Sub-Diary #86 by kimoconnor
Egypt Liveblog: Sub-Diary #85 by dmac
Egypt Liveblog: Sub-Diary #84 by lepanto
Egypt Liveblog: Sub-Diary #83 by kimoconnor
Egypt Liveblog: Sub-Diary #82 by dmac
Egypt Liveblog: Sub-Diary #81 by unspeakable
Egypt Liveblog: Sub-Diary #80 by dmac
Egypt Liveblog Archive by unaspenser


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Comment Preferences

  •  tear gas cannisters collected by (8+ / 0-)

    protesters in Bahrain.

    http://twitpic.com/...

  •  kristoff just live (16+ / 0-)

    heartbreaking ... he is on ground as demos and brutality continue 'i thought i knew these people but i didn't...'

    "The new weapon of choice is the broom." Kasr El Nile bridge. Cairo. 02/11/11

    by boatsie on Thu Feb 17, 2011 at 10:08:57 AM PST

  •  Palestinian protesters and children (8+ / 0-)

    being repressed, too:
    http://www.dailykos.com/...

    We need to remember them in all that is going on.

  •  Saudi Arabia (7+ / 0-)

    If they have done this much this quickly...it's because the Saudis see it as a test case. Bahrain is economically dependent on Saudi Arabia. The Kingdom is not about to allow democracy, plus the fact that there's nothing but water between Bahrain and Iran, and not all that much water, worries them in terms of Shi'ites.

    Whatever the justice of the cause, it remains to be seen if any of the candidate dominos succeeds in situations where the existing regime puts more police in the street than there are protesters.

    Of course, brutal repression doesn't "succeed", it just displaces the locus of dissent. Also, the Bahrainis have only appeared on the international radar with regard to state oppression.

    The protests in Yemen are more extensions of existing political divisions than an uprising of "the people" versus a regime that is widely rejected. It's really a question of whether a single Yemen is something that's going to be undone now, and I don't think it will be.

    In Algeria, as in Bahrain (but on a much larger scale) the regime put more police in the street than there were protesters. Despite photos showing women...the protests in Algeria showed a preponderance of men who were older than the fast-running kids of Cairo. I don't know what to make of the decision to protest every Saturday, other than to say, way to telegraph a punch.

  •  Juan Cole: Egypt Situation Still Explosive (14+ / 0-)

    Informed Comment

    The military government of Gen. Mohammad Hussein Tantawi, the minister of defense, has taken important steps toward mollifying the Jan. 25 protest movement, but it is not clear that these measures can succeed in forestalling further clashes and severe conflicts in Egypt.

    { ... }
    Among the big changes being contemplated is moving Egypt to a form of government more like that of Britain, i.e. a parliamentary system with power vested in a prime minister who comes out of the elected legislature. As it is, Egypt more resembles France and the US, in having an independently elected, powerful presidency whose prerogatives curb those of parliament (or Congress). The presidential system in the Middle East has often deteriorated into dictatorship and presidents-for-life. Democratization theorists in the US agree that this move would be a good idea.

    The constitutional changes are not putting food on anyone’s table, and workers are continuing to strike, in defiance of military strictures. On Wednesday some 10,000 textile workers at al-Mahallah al-Kubra went on strike. Bank workers, transportation workers, even police and ambulance drivers, have engaged in work stoppages and have demanded better wages and working conditions.

  •  META ACTION DIARY (6+ / 0-)

    LINK ">Please rec this diary  and get it on the rec list so that as many eyes as possible will see it and make calls to help the Bahraini protesters.

    Let's put pressure on their government and our and make a difference this time.  Our phone calls might very save lives.

    Brothers & sisters of #Egypt, you have given the world the most precious gift: the belief that ultimately right will prevail. -Desmond Tutu

    by conchita on Thu Feb 17, 2011 at 10:37:46 AM PST

  •  META Please add this link to the child diary (5+ / 0-)

    near the top so that readers will not have to pile through the comments to find it.

     LINK

    Brothers & sisters of #Egypt, you have given the world the most precious gift: the belief that ultimately right will prevail. -Desmond Tutu

    by conchita on Thu Feb 17, 2011 at 10:41:39 AM PST

    •  Conchita-that diary tells a VERY scary story. (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      cotterperson, conchita, petulans

      Very disturbed that the US isn't making a bigger deal about this---Hillary urges "restraint"....

      Why don't we send a strongly worded letter...???  Jeez..

      •  phil, it was your comment that (0+ / 0-)

        lead me to msnbc.  thank you!

        Brothers & sisters of #Egypt, you have given the world the most precious gift: the belief that ultimately right will prevail. -Desmond Tutu

        by conchita on Thu Feb 17, 2011 at 12:30:02 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  "US takes Cautious Line on Fifth Fleet's Base"... (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        cotterperson

        Some background re: US/ Bahrain: Unrest in Bahrain is putting the future of a key U.S. ally in doubt..

        ....A U.S. ally in a geographically strategic perch, Bahrain is positioned near the world's most important oil reserves, and its Sunni government has been seen as a reliable bulwark against nearby Shiite-led Iran. At the center of U.S. strategy there is the headquarters of the U.S. Fifth Fleet—a base that is home to 3,000 military personnel who oversee the 30 naval ships and some 30,000 sailors that patrol the Persian Gulf and Arabian and Red seas.

        The Bahrain base isn't the most important U.S. base in the Middle East, but it oversees all of its naval operations there, a critical task. While it could conceivably be moved, former officials say no other country has been as reliably welcoming to the U.S. presence as Bahrain...

  •  A news round up of ME protests.... (6+ / 0-)

    Middle East Unrest: The Latest From Bahrain, Libya, and Yemen
    http://news.yahoo.com/...

  •  Thx a bunch for keeping the flame (5+ / 0-)

    going.

    The ME is ready for change. Well, at least the citizens are ready. The status quo, not so much.

    And the US is still in a precarious position. Very challenging.

    No home. No job. No peace. No rest.

    by A Runner on Thu Feb 17, 2011 at 11:22:33 AM PST

  •  this tweeter is something else.. (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    cotterperson

    @alibinkhalifa

    I will contact #NYTimes cause their columnist @NickKristof is accusing me of being part of the government while I'm ... http://tmi.me/...

    "You can almost judge how screwed up somebody is by the kind of toilet paper they use." Don van Vliet, Captain Beefheart

    by Muggsy on Thu Feb 17, 2011 at 11:58:49 AM PST

  •  Yemeni Hackers break into Yemeni TV (6+ / 0-)
    URGENT: Yemeni Hackers break into Yemeni TV website, check it now http://www.yemen-tv.net/ #Hack #Security #Yemen #TV #Media

    "You can almost judge how screwed up somebody is by the kind of toilet paper they use." Don van Vliet, Captain Beefheart

    by Muggsy on Thu Feb 17, 2011 at 12:00:45 PM PST

  •  ALJ just reported: (9+ / 0-)

    three former Egyptian cabinet members arrested for corruption!

    No home. No job. No peace. No rest.

    by A Runner on Thu Feb 17, 2011 at 12:23:51 PM PST

  •  Egypt: no army candidates; US to fund 150 million (7+ / 0-)

    for democracy transition.  Hope there's no strings attached.

    16:55 Egypt army says won't field presidential candidate (Reuters)

    17:47 UN chief Ban urges end to violence in Bahrain (Reuters)

    18:41 Protester dies in south Yemen, 8 wounded (Reuters)

    19:16 Pentagon: U.S. defense chief discusses security with Bahrain prince (Reuters)

    19:54 Clinton: U.S. to allocate $150 million to assist Egypt to make transition (Reuters)

    20:19 Bahrain doctor badly hurt while trying to give first aid (Reuters)

    20:22 Clinton: Bahrain needs 'real, meaningful' change (Reuters)


    http://www.haaretz.com/...
  •  New Al Jazeera Empire report (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    greenbird, conchita, BarackStarObama
    Youtube, Facebook and Twitter have become the new weapons of mass mobilisation. Are social networks triggering social revolution? And where will the next domino fall?

  •  NYT blog.. (5+ / 0-)
    My colleague Laura Kasinof reports from Yemen's capital, Sana, "thousands of demonstrators, some supporting President Ali Abdullah Saleh and some seeking his downfall, clashed for hours in central Sana, bombarding one another with a hailstorm of rocks on the seventh straight day of violent unrest here."

    one hour ago

  •  The WH, thru Press guy Carney urges "restraint" (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    oofer, PeterHug, cotterperson, conchita

    in Bahrain.

    WTF?   Don't kill too many??  Is that what that means???

    One definition:  

    . An influence that inhibits or restrains; a limitation.

    So, IOW---limit your killings??

    Obama---Demand in strong terms to STOP!!!!

  •  US interest in Bahrain (8+ / 0-)

    Bahrain: What's at stake for America

    As far as Washington is concerned, this small Persian Gulf kingdom may be where support for Middle East democracy dies. The loss of American military power that would accompany an overthrow of the regime of King Hamad bin Isa Al Khalifa is incalculable.
    Could U.S. officials find a new naval home in the Gulf? Possibly Qatar or the United Arab Emirates, Rubin said, but "if there's a sense that the dominoes are falling and the United States is the big loser, then all the regional states are going to make their accommodation with Iran whether they like us or not."
  •  AMAZING story - shootout at Libyan (6+ / 0-)

    soccer match over contested goad between (more or less) state-sponsored team and rival team

    Gadaffi's soccer foes pay deadly penalty

    Increasing resentment against the Libyan leader, Colonel Muammar Gadaffi, has exploded into violence at a football stadium in Tripoli, where a derby between the capital's two main teams turned into a shoot-out between supporters and official government bodyguards.
    ...

    The crucial moment came in the closing moments of the game, as the referee was forced to adjudicate a questionable goal scored by Al-Ahli over their city rival, Al-Ittihad. The crowd clearly felt the goal should have been disallowed, but Al-Ahli's owner - Mr Gadaffi's son al-Saadi - was sitting in the stands and the referee eventually decided to let it stand.

    Furious Al-Ittihad supporters immediately invaded the pitch chanting anti-government slogans, and al-Saadi's bodyguards opened fire in response, killing at least four people. Some supporters started firing back, but panic quickly gripped the 60,000-strong crowd, which stampeded towards the exits.

    http://www.independent.co.uk/...

  •  CNN comes out against Democracy (8+ / 0-)

    Richard Lyon already posted about  this article , but what struck me most about it is somewhat different...here is the opening of the article

    Washington (CNN) -- Bahrain -- a tiny group of islands where hot political rhetoric meets cold military reality.

    As far as Washington is concerned, this small Persian Gulf kingdom may be where support for Middle East democracy dies. The loss of American military power that would accompany an overthrow of the regime of King Hamad bin Isa Al Khalifa is incalculable.

    Here is the end of the article:

    Could U.S. officials find a new naval home in the Gulf? Possibly Qatar or the United Arab Emirates, Rubin said, but
    "if there's a sense that the dominoes are falling and the United States is the big loser, then all the regional states are going to make their accommodation with Iran whether they like us or not."

    The stakes could not be higher.

    I would argue that the dialectics of this article are such that  CNN itself is trying to make a strong argument that the US should put its military 'self-interest' before the interests of people in the middle east - and using the "iranian bogeyman' as the icing on the cake.

  •   Gadaffi massacres protesters (6+ / 0-)

    Has this been brought up here yet?

    Libya protests: Colonel Muammar Gaddafi turns helicopter gunships on own people

    Colonel Muammar Gaddafi's regime turned helicopter gunships and snipers on protesters killing up to 19 people yesterday as rare anti-government demonstrations were last night reported to have reached Tripoli, the capital

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/...

    •  they are killing their own people (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      cotterperson, conchita, Picot verde

      in order to hang on to power and the money that comes with it. How many will die, and will their deaths make meaningful changes for the citizens? I do not think all these efforts are going to turn out so well...

      Where ignorance is our master, there is no possibility of real peace. - Dalai Lama

      by kimoconnor on Thu Feb 17, 2011 at 03:54:27 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  It looks like Egypt (4+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        PeterHug, bee tzu, kimoconnor, NoBlinkers

        has so far gone much better than anybody would have expected. It is probably not realistic to expect things to be as smooth everywhere else.

        •  Unfortunately, no (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          PeterHug, bee tzu

          The level of brutality and outrageous lies they are willing to use does not bode well.

          Where ignorance is our master, there is no possibility of real peace. - Dalai Lama

          by kimoconnor on Thu Feb 17, 2011 at 04:34:19 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

        •  Sad but true (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          PeterHug, cotterperson, bee tzu

          If democracy movements are going to succeed throughout the rest of the ME, then there will be a lot of pain and suffering.  It's possible that even an economic shut down (massive strikes) wouldn't be enough, but that the people would need to do something similar to what we did - or what the Iranians did to depose the Shah.

          Changing from autocracy to democracy isn't easy, and it's only possible to do so peacefully when the military isn't willing to slaughter the protesters.  As much as I hope for the best, peaceful transitions are the exception rather than the rule.  

          Finally, the fact that so many nations errupted at the same time has made it more difficult, not less, to focus international attention.  It's been brought up here - who should we follow?  Bahrain, Algeria, Yemen, Jordan, Libya, Iran, Iraq or the Palestinian territories?  The West doesn't have that large an attention span.

          •  I would anticipate that (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            kimoconnor, UnaSpenser, BlueDragon

            most Americans will only get fixed on a situation when something dramatic is about to happen like Munarak's fall. The fact that the effort to keep track of the other events is less popular does not make it less important.

            •  I think the west also has an emotional (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              poco

              attachment to Egypt that is a little different then it has for other arab countries.

              In the US and I presume most western nations, there is a tradition of learning about ancient Egypt as being part of our cultural heritage  that does not exist in the same way for, say, Iraq or Saudi Arabia.

              Also, Egypt plays more of a major role in the Bible (especially the old testament), not to mention that unlike many other arab nations mentioned in the bible, Egypt still exists AS Egypt.

  •  Abdul Latif al Zayani just on CNN (9+ / 0-)

    He is evidently a Special Envoy to the US. And had just left the State Dept where he was in a meeting.

    He said they used proportional force, they had to use it because it was necessary. HE claimed the protests had disrupted their national economy and scaring the people.

    He was asked if the people were armed, or using force as what we have seen was all peaceful.

    He said their response was legal, he claimed the protesters did have arms, that they found pistols after they dispersed them. He said they charged and assaulted the police.

    He was then asked about the use of tear gas. And that there does not seem to be any harm to any of the security forces, but that at least 3 protesters were killed. She asked if it was possible this was an over-reaction, could it have been dealt with in some other way?

    He said no, they always use force that is proportional. He claimed a minimum of tear gas was used to be effective enough to disperse the people. He claimed warning was given to the protesters, some adhered to the warning and left, others did not. And he claimed some denied others the ability to leave.

    He then went on to say how much the king is committed to democracy and reform. And believes in having dialogue in all sides of society.

    She asked if the king will agree to some of the demands now.

    He claimed there is a legal framework for dialogue, all issues are looked at, ....
    It's a long trip and we are persuing it, will have hurdles along the way. But will bounce out of it stronger.

    This is my rough transcript, (thanks Tivo)

    Where ignorance is our master, there is no possibility of real peace. - Dalai Lama

    by kimoconnor on Thu Feb 17, 2011 at 03:51:05 PM PST

    •  well, that's a crock of s*** (6+ / 0-)

      could he be so naive as to think we haven't seen the videos posted?  or that we might think miguel martinez was beaten because he was carrying a gun?

      Brothers & sisters of #Egypt, you have given the world the most precious gift: the belief that ultimately right will prevail. -Desmond Tutu

      by conchita on Thu Feb 17, 2011 at 03:59:52 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  i really hope people took a moment to call or (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      PeterHug, cotterperson, poco, kimoconnor

      email the bahrain embassy in dc and let them know they cannot get away with this, that the whole world is watching.  shame on the u.s. government if they choose to value power of people's lives.

      Brothers & sisters of #Egypt, you have given the world the most precious gift: the belief that ultimately right will prevail. -Desmond Tutu

      by conchita on Thu Feb 17, 2011 at 04:02:00 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  He had just come out of a meeting at State dept (4+ / 0-)

        And I am sure he asserted this was all "proportional" and necessary.

        If they are willing to ignore the video that shows the reality of what happened, and assert that the murders were appropriate they are willing to do anything.

        I have no idea what the US is going to say about this latest interview. But I am not hopeful they will clearly call for an end of the violence, now.

        Where ignorance is our master, there is no possibility of real peace. - Dalai Lama

        by kimoconnor on Thu Feb 17, 2011 at 04:31:52 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

    •  Thanks for the transcript, kim. (6+ / 0-)

      Curiosity got the best of me, and I found some bits of information about Zayani. He's the Secretary-General of the [Gulf Cooperation Council who upon swearing in said:

      "I pledge before God that I will be honest and truthful to Their Majesties and Highnesses and that I will implement their orders with full dedication and sincerity," he said in the statement carried by Bahrain News Agency (BNA).

      http://gulfnews.com/...

      He also heads the Bahraini security forces. In June 2008,

      Bahraini Major General Abdul Latif bin Rashid Al Zayani asked the United States to provide early warning to Bahrain before attacking Iran.

      http://en.wikipedia.org/...

      There's also a Sunni-Shia angle (this from today):

      The large-scale naturalisation of foreign Sunnis has been described by analysts as a "clear political strategy to alter the country's demographic balance in order to counter the Shia voting power." ....

      But the chief of public security, Major General Abdul Latif al-Zayani, was praised for blocking his subordinates' efforts to naturalise the mostly Pakistani special forces company that was due to deploy in support of US troops in Afghanistan. "Zayani reportedly cited the political sensitivity of naturalising Sunni expatriates and wanted to avoid provoking the opposition," the embassy said.

      http://www.guardian.co.uk/...

      That last part really got me! Bahrain is hiring Pakistanis to fulfill its promise of support of the US forces in Afghanistan. Anybody remember the movie Charlie Wilson's War? Wilson got the Pakistani intelligence service (ISI) to recruit Pakistanis to fight the Russians in Afghanistan. Was that 30 years ago now? Something like that.

      It's all too weird, except that it must have pleased the war-mongering neocons to hear this man lie so boldly. The big lie was part of their con game. They're still selling it, with the help of the corporate media.

      Damn shame people are dying for it.

    •  "Baghdad Bob" resurfaces as "Bahrain Bob" (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      PeterHug, cotterperson, bee tzu

      Fucking liar!!!!!

    •  Ugh (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      cotterperson

      It would be nice if Al Jazeera took aim at this hypocrisy but I must say,  I think our expectations of  Al Jazeera have to be held in check as they THEMSELVES are owned by a monarch who at some point may feel all these uprisings are hitting a little bit too close to home.

  •  Comparrison opf Bahrain and Egypt (5+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    oofer, PeterHug, cotterperson, jlynne, bee tzu

    Egypt, Bahrain protests differ in key ways

    While the unrest roiling Bahrain on its surface mirrors the early stages of the revolt in Egypt that toppled President Hosni Mubarak, experts say the conflict on the island nation is very different in several key respects.

    Most important is the huge economic gulf that exists between Bahrain’s ruling Sunni Muslim minority and the impoverished majority Shiites who are driving the protests.

    •  So in other words (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      cotterperson, kurious

      this conflict is based more on ethnic/religious divides than an overall discontent with the current regime.  I am assuming here that this would mirror the divides in Iraq.  So maybe this is not based on a democratic revolution but rather a civil rights type issue?

      Not being able to do everything is no excuse for not doing everything you can. - Ashleigh Brilliant

      by dmac on Thu Feb 17, 2011 at 05:57:31 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  I think it's probably both. (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        oofer, cotterperson, poco

        The Shehites are much poorer and have been kept out of government power, so they have political and economic grievances. That was also true in Iraq under Saddam.

        Bahrain is on the cusp between the Sunni power center of Saudi Arabia and the Shehite power center of Iran. Iran thinks that Baharain should be part of Iran. Saudi Arabia has previously sent in its army to prevent that.

    •  Is this situation like northern Ireland (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      cotterperson

      ...where the English-backed Protestants have been the ruling class but the majority of people are poorer Catholics?

  •  libya sounding better as i read tweets from the (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    PeterHug, cotterperson, BlueDragon

    last two hours.  here's one example:

     ShababLibya  LibyanYouthMovement
    Contact on the ground confirms: Al Beida protesters and police forces worked together to drive 700 mercenaries out of the city #feb17 #libya
    2 hours ago Favorite Retweet Reply

    Brothers & sisters of #Egypt, you have given the world the most precious gift: the belief that ultimately right will prevail. -Desmond Tutu

    by conchita on Thu Feb 17, 2011 at 06:26:10 PM PST

  •  libya sounding better as i read tweets from the (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    PeterHug, cotterperson

    last two hours.  here's one example:

     ShababLibya  LibyanYouthMovement
    Contact on the ground confirms: Al Beida protesters and police forces worked together to drive 700 mercenaries out of the city #feb17 #libya
    2 hours ago Favorite Retweet Reply

    Brothers & sisters of #Egypt, you have given the world the most precious gift: the belief that ultimately right will prevail. -Desmond Tutu

    by conchita on Thu Feb 17, 2011 at 07:31:30 PM PST

  •  good evening, everyone (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    PeterHug, cotterperson, jlynne, David PA

    I've been afk most of the day. Anything I should know?

  •  AJE is not working for me (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    David PA

    anyone else?

    I feel like a piece of me was amputated.

    "Rules must be binding. Violations must be punished. Words must mean something." President Obama in Prague on April 5

    by jlynne on Thu Feb 17, 2011 at 08:40:56 PM PST

  •  This is not new (6+ / 0-)

    but I missed it when it was published - I was still glued to  AJE and twitter.

     Greewald is worth repeating:

    . . . [the media] have the effect of manufacturing the appearance that such problems exist only Over There, but not here.  One would never, ever find in The New York Times such a sweeping denunciation of the plutocratic corruption and merger of private wealth and political power that shapes most of America's political culture.  Just like "torture"-- which that paper has no trouble declaring is used by Egypt's government but will never say is used by ours -- such systematic corruption can exist only elsewhere, but never in America.  

    It is a huge blindspot in our society, and if it is not corrected, if we continue to willfully ignore the obvious, it will be our children being shot in the public square.  

    "Rules must be binding. Violations must be punished. Words must mean something." President Obama in Prague on April 5

    by jlynne on Thu Feb 17, 2011 at 09:24:50 PM PST

    •  i was just talking to my dad about this... (4+ / 0-)

      he was saying 'I wonder if it could happen here'.  It could, I suppose...but I think it would take a long time.  One difference is that the whole idea of American style constitutional democracy is something that most people in this country welcome and are proud of...even with all its corruption--and people's perceptions of disenfranchisement from that process are low.  Even with corporate oligarchs, and torture, and wars that we don't want...and didn't ask for...and poverty...there is still a general ideology that process can improve things here.

      Power may be concentrated in the hands of some people who game the system, but the system doesn't exist for the purpose of oppression.  In Egypt, Iran, etc...it does--although even in those countries there are still sizeable proportions who prefer stability over instability...the Islamic Revolution retains broad support in rural Iran, for example...and not all the pro-Mubarak supporters were thugs...that perception was the result of simplistic reporting in the heat of an extremely fast revolution.  

      However...we HAVE bene shot in the public square...Kent State, for example...so it could and has happened here...

      •  what makes you think that the system (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        cotterperson, conchita, jlynne

        here does not exist to oppress?

        •  primarily (0+ / 0-)

          checks and balances.

          at least from a political perspective...the US isn't a dictatorship, even with its abuses.

          Now, if you want to get into a discussion on the nature of capitalism...that's a different animal altogether.

          •  but the checks and balances are (4+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            oofer, conchita, jlynne, lotlizard

            disappearing. Corporate dollars have bought every branch.

            Look at the conflicts of interest in the Citizens United case. Two supreme court justices acvitvely involved with the advocacy group bringing the case and they don't recuse themselves. No congressional control over executive branch abuses. No accountability. No protection for our civil rights.

            And ask the black population if the system is oppressive? They don't get justice. Justice is only for the rich here. Every one else has to toe their line or have their lives destroyed.  We're all prisoners to their whims and pocketbooks.

            Ask Bradley Manning if the system is oppressive. Where are the checks and balances there? Tortured without a trial, much less a conviction. We all know and we do nothing. We're not that different than those tyrannies. We're wrapped in a cloak of representative democracy, but the monied interests actually pull the strings and we're duped into thinking that we're voting for someone who will represent us, when they will actually on do so if it suits the powers that be. If it doesn't, they don't care if they trample on us. That we're sheep and haven't pushed back enough to get slaughtered, yet, doesn't mean it wouldn't happen if we did.

            •  i don't dispute any of these things. (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              cotterperson, jlynne

              and at great risk I'm willingly ignoring the issue of slavery and its repercussions (including the 3/5 compromise) since it's an entire issue on its own.

              but I'm talking about the political system as intended...not as abused.  The guarantee of due process, for example, is meant to guarantee due process...not remove it.

              Any system that is subject to enough abuse loses its original intent.

              •  On slavery and intent: (2+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                bevenro, lotlizard

                I wasn't talking about slavery. I was talking about how the black population is treated now.

                On intent: the intent of our system is that the people would fight to stop abuses of a monies power class. But we don't. So, the intention was flawed. In their post-revolution fervor, they didn't realize that a cowed populous would not have the zeal that they have. The system needed more explicit mechanisms to prevent money from controlling the system. (Like establishing publicly financed elections and clearly stating that private monies could not be involved.) They didn't do this, because it was actually the monied elite who wrote our constitution and set things up. They gave lip service to representative democracy and the will of the people, but gave more power to the monied elite - themselves. The 3/5 rule was actually a way to give landed gentry even more influence. They got to count their slaves as additional votes in their own interest.

                So, the system, as intended, actually has some serious issues when it comes to keeping checks and balances in place and serving the ideology of self-determination.

                •  gotta sleep... (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  UnaSpenser

                  but need to mention that the reason I brought up slavery isn't that I was mis-reading your comment:
                  'just ask the black population if the system is oppressive'

                  but to address the initial definition of the system via the constitution, which included the 3/5 reference to slavery.  Because that's so glaring I couldn't make a comment that 'the system isn't designed to oppress' without relegating that to a separate discussion...

      •  This is a great example of the point, actually (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        oofer, conchita, lotlizard
        there is still a general ideology that process can improve things here.

        but can it?  By what process will we regain the right to habeas corpus?  By what process will we hold Wall Street accountable?  By what process will we ensure dignity for our elderly, disabled and impoverished?

        I think you are buying into the very myth that Greenwald highlights.  

        I disagree with you about oppression.  I think the purpose of the American system is very definitely oppression, it is just accomplished through different means and with less focus on physical violence.

        "Rules must be binding. Violations must be punished. Words must mean something." President Obama in Prague on April 5

        by jlynne on Thu Feb 17, 2011 at 10:05:10 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  maybe it's a myth... (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          jlynne, lotlizard

          but it's a myth that seems to hold true for most people here...or else why would we be engaged in process-based political activism?

          Even the civil rights movement generally sought to improve situations rather than overthrow the perpetrators.

          How many of us here loudly claim that our SYSTEM of government (not the people in it) needs to be completely overhauled, removed and replaced?  Not many. In Egypt and Iran, reformers recognise that the existing system is untenable as is.

          THere are oppressORS in the US system, sure.  I Don't think it's designed particularly to oppress.

          •  Designed to oppress? (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            oofer, conchita, shenderson

            No, it's not, you are absolutely correct.  But it's not being implemented as designed, and therein lies the disconnect, the cognitive dissonance that Greenwald is talking about.  

            Egypt's oppression resulted from enforcement of the rule of law - law that was designed to oppress.  America's oppression results from the blatant refusal to enforce the rule of law, the refusal to enforce the very checks and balances that were designed to prevent oppression.  

            The means are different, but the end result is the same - whether we get tortured, or have a job, or are free to walk down the street, depends entirely on the whims of the authoritarian dictators who rule us, and who do so with impunity.  

            In terms of fixing it, we are at a comparative disadvantage because, as you point out, no one wants to overthrow the Constitution or the SYSTEM.  We just want our dictators to abide by it, and we kid ourselves that because it contains all the right words, we still have a process by which we can fix things.  

            "Rules must be binding. Violations must be punished. Words must mean something." President Obama in Prague on April 5

            by jlynne on Thu Feb 17, 2011 at 10:33:28 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  i think we're in general agreement (3+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              conchita, jlynne, lotlizard

              although crossing wires a bit.

              I mean the freedoms here (1st amdt. freedoms), despite some discussion on here to the contrary, are so far beyond these other places...there have certainly been major VIOLATIONS of those freedoms...but these constitute abuses rather than intent.  

              I've worked for several years in one of the most repressive regimes in the world (just short stints--3-6 weeks)...where the suspensions of freedoms are the intent.  The difference is beyond shocking.

              I suppose we could be cynical and say that in a way it is actually BECAUSE of those freedoms that people in this country are lulled into a false sense of security and a false hope that they can improve their situations when in reality they can't...that's a huge discussion and since it's 2:00 am I can't risk starting!

              But yes, I agree the system IS going downhill, continuing to get worse and could possibly come apart at the seams one day.  But I think that's fairly far off.

              •  thank you for (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                conchita

                discussing it with me.  Have a good sleep, and a great Friday.  :)

                "Rules must be binding. Violations must be punished. Words must mean something." President Obama in Prague on April 5

                by jlynne on Thu Feb 17, 2011 at 11:02:37 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

              •  What are we to make of Guantanamo never closing? (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                conchita

                This is just one of a myriad of examples, but:
                How do we ever get back to a system where people are not detained indefinitely and even tortured, without ever being charged with anything?

                "Gates: Odds Gitmo Will Close Very, Very Low"
                http://news.antiwar.com/...

                The Dutch kids' chorus Kinderen voor Kinderen wishes all the world's children freedom from hunger, ignorance, and war.

                by lotlizard on Fri Feb 18, 2011 at 02:23:08 AM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  or the fact that our government working (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  lotlizard

                  through the law firm that was dealing with hbgary willingly saw to undermine a journalist - greenwald - just as the bahraini government is doing with a kristof?

                  Brothers & sisters of #Egypt, you have given the world the most precious gift: the belief that ultimately right will prevail. -Desmond Tutu

                  by conchita on Fri Feb 18, 2011 at 06:25:44 AM PST

                  [ Parent ]

  •  friday (6+ / 0-)

    ynet :

    Arab world tense ahead of Friday prayers
    Violence in Iran, Libya, Bahrain, and Yemen expected to reach new heights after sermons
    The Arab world prepared Thursday evening for a tense day of prayer Friday, after anti-government protests in Iran, Libya, Bahrain, and Yemen claimed a number of lives.

    and they [dare to] call it democracy...

    by stolen water on Thu Feb 17, 2011 at 11:47:36 PM PST

  •  SEEKING DIARY ASSISTANCE (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    jnhobbs, BarackStarObama

    I'm up way too late and am setting up the liveblog for Friday. I still need interesting articles, photos, videos, tweets, FB udpates for Iran, Algeria, Jordan and Egypt.

    Will you help, so I can post a diary as quickly as possible when I wake up?

    thank you!

  •  I'm finally back! (8+ / 0-)

    Finally, after almost a week, dk4 is working for me!

    We're shocked by a naked nipple, but not by naked aggression.

    by Lepanto on Fri Feb 18, 2011 at 05:20:41 AM PST

  •  The entire region appears (6+ / 0-)

    to be in flame this morning. I just skimmed through the news and there are present demonstrations in:

    Egypt

    Libya

    Yemen

    Jordan

    Bahrain

    Iraq

    They are planned in Algeria and Iran.

    No matter how much the powers that be might wish it, this is not going to blow over.

  •  Friday Of Victory demonstration (5+ / 0-)

    is huge. AP is reporting ...

    Rivaling the biggest crowds since their pro-democracy revolt began, flag-waving Egyptians packed into Tahrir Square for a day of prayer and celebration Friday to mark the fall of longtime leader Hosni Mubarak a week ago and to push their new military rulers to steer the country toward reform.

      Richard Engle , at MSNBC , says "up to a million people are out today."
  •  unaspenser, please add this link to your next (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    poco, jnhobbs, stolen water, angry marmot

    diary:
    http://www.dailykos.com/...

    it is the action diary i did yesterday re bahrain.  i will add to it today and include libya.

    Brothers & sisters of #Egypt, you have given the world the most precious gift: the belief that ultimately right will prevail. -Desmond Tutu

    by conchita on Fri Feb 18, 2011 at 06:45:53 AM PST

  •  From Kristoff: This is very alarming! (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    cotterperson, jnhobbs, stolen water

    #    Panicked crowds running thru hospital after police attack. Drs rushing to ER. Tear gas grenades outside, wafting in.     less than 10 seconds ago  via Twitter for BlackBerry®

    # Police attacking protesters here at hospital in #Bahrain. Tear gas inside. Panic. 10 minutes ago via Twitter for BlackBerry®

    # Army just fired again on #Bahrain protesters.

    Its *Gandhi*, not Ghandi

    by poco on Fri Feb 18, 2011 at 06:56:21 AM PST

  •  "Rubber bullets and tear gas inside the (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    cotterperson, jnhobbs, stolen water

    hospital! Police are attacking protesters there." Kristoff in a telephone interview with NPR.

    Its *Gandhi*, not Ghandi

    by poco on Fri Feb 18, 2011 at 06:58:25 AM PST

  •  Its an incrediby confusing scene. (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    jnhobbs, stolen water

    There were reports of live ammunition and maybe even machine gun firing on the Pearl Roundabout demonstrators.

    And there are also reports of police attacking the wounded who were brought to the hospital.

    From The Guardian:

    Just talked to somebody who's in Salmaniya hospital protests. Reports of new wounded coming to the hospital. Daih protests, reportedly intending to head for Lulu roundabout, might have been attacked.

    Live ammunition shot - ppl in salmaniya are pleading... international community silent

    Person from Salmaniya hospital: ambulances are withheld, not allowed to carry wounded from daih protest

    Its *Gandhi*, not Ghandi

    by poco on Fri Feb 18, 2011 at 07:08:20 AM PST

  •  folks, please take a moment and call (6+ / 0-)

    the statement dept, the wh, and the bahrain embassies.  we cannot sit by and watch this.  people are begging for help on twitter feeds.  please.  all the numbers are here:
    Contact Information for the Bahrain DC embassy and NYC consulate
    Contact the Bahrain embassy and consulate and let them know the world is watching and condemning the Bahraini government for it's ruthless violence and repression.  
    Update 2:  Send an email that will be seen by the Bahraini government.  I just spoke with the embassy press office and they are collecting emails that will be sent to Bahrain at the end of the day.  information@BahrainEmbassy.org

    Embassy of the Kingdom of Bahrain
    3502 International Drive NW
    Washington, DC 20008
    Phone: 202 342 1111, Fax: 202 362 2192

    Bahrain Consulates General in New York
    2 United Nations Plaza, 44th St., E., 25th Floor,
    New York, NY 10017.
    (212) 223-6200, FAX (212) 319-0687

    Bahraini Ambassador to the U.S.
    Ms. Houda Ezra Ebrahim Nonoo

    Contact Info for the White House, State Department, and Congress
    Contact your elected representatives and ask them to publicly demand that Bahrain immediately halt all violence against the protesters and respect the freedoms of all Bahrainis.

    The White House
    1600 Pennsylvania Avenue NW
    Washington, DC 20500
    Phone Numbers
    Comments: 202-456-1111
    Switchboard: 202-456-1414
    FAX: 202-456-2461
    Webform for email:  www.whitehouse.gov/contact

    Congress

    Senators: You can find contact information for your senators here

    Representatives: You can look up your representatives here

    Or simply call the Capitol Switchboard at (202) 224-3121.

    US State Department
    Contact the State Department and urge that Hillary Clinton publicly demand that the government of Bahrain immediately halt all violence against the protesters and respect the freedoms of all Bahrainis.

    Secretary Hillary Clinton 202-647-5291
    Deputy Secretary of State James Steinberg  202-647-8636
    Special Assistant to the Secretary and the Executive Secretary of the Department Stephen D. Mull 202-647-5301

    Bureau of Near Eastern Affairs (NEA)
    Assistant Secretary Jeffrey D. Feltman  202-647-7209
    Office of Arabian Peninsula Affairs (NEA/ARP)
    Director Andrew  Steinfeld  202-647-6184
    Deputy Director Eric  Gaudiosi   202-647-6563

    Bureau of Public Affairs (PA)
    Assistant Secretary for Public Affairs
    Philip J. Crowley 202-647-6607

    Bureau of Democracy, Human Rights and Labor (DRL)
    Asia and Western Hemisphere Affairs (DRL/AWH)

    Senior Advisor Susan  O'Sullivan  202-647-8283
    Deputy Director Catherine  Kuchta-Hebling         202-647-8237
    Senior Advisor on Asia Susan  O'Sullivan      202-647-8271
    Director Robert W. Boehme 202-647-8237

    Office of Near East and South Central Affairs (DRL/NESCA)
    Director Kari  Johnstone, Acting 202-647-0407
    Deputy Director Kari  Johnstone  202-647-1473
    OMS Esther  Zaiback 202-647-4308

    Bureau of Intelligence and Research (INR)
    Office of Analysis for Near East and South Asia (INR/NESA)

    Director Nabeel  Khoury  202-647-8660
    Arab-Israel States Division Chief Conny  Mayer  202-647-5076
    North Africa and Arabian Peninsula Division Chief Tom  King 202-647-8413
    South Asia Division Chief Steve Ghitelman  202-647-78660

    Bureau of International Organization Affairs (IO)
    Office of Human Rights, Humanitarian, and Social Affairs (IO/RHS)

    Director Atul  Keshap 202-736-7791
    Deputy Director Cari  Enav 202-647-5070

    Office of the Director of U.S. Foreign Assistance
    Deputy Director of U.S. Foreign Assistance Robert H. Goldberg  202-647-2608
    Chief Operating Officer Wade  Warren, Acting  202-647-2676

    Office of the Under Secretary for Democracy and Global Affairs and Coordinator
    Under Secretary Maria  Otero  202-647-1189

    Bureau of Democracy, Human Rights and Labor
    Assistant Secretary Michael H. Posner  202-647-2126

    Update 1:  Mona Eltawahy retweeted a Bahraini protester's tweet last night asking people to contact the Formula 1 racing organization that is planning events in the coming weeks.  Responding to the brutality in Pearl Square, Formula 1 has canceled the race scheduled for the end of this week and is considering canceling the larger event in March.  The statement from their website follows after Eltahwahy's tweet.  Please call and tell them you will not attend a race in a country that kills its own citizens for protesting.

    zarazavich joshe sifferman
    by monaeltahawy
    @monaeltahawy Contact Formula 1:  www.bookf1.com/contact-us.htm -  comment that you intended to buy ticket but now boycott.
    55 minutes ago Favorite Retweet Reply
    »
    Focal Point
    NexusIndivulsus Focal Point
    by monaeltahawy
    @
    @monaeltahawy @bmaz Here is a list of F1 folks on Twitter. Please RT http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/...  #Bahrain #feb14
    58 minutes ago Favorite Retweet Reply
    Situation worsens in Bahrain as GP2 Asia race is cancelled
    17 February 2011 by Keith Collantine

    The political situation in Bahrain continues to deteriorate, putting the running of next month’s season-opening F1 race in jeopardy.

    The government has used security forces to break up demonstrations by protesters demanding political reform. At least two people have been killed and over a hundred have been injured.

    The practice sessions for tomorrow’s GP2 Asia races have been cancelled as medical crews are being deployed elsewhere.

    GP2 reporter Will Buxton said on Twitter that some of the teams are staying near Pearl Roundabout, where much of the violence has taken place:

    “Hearing that some GP2 teams are staying near Pearl Roundabout and have been told not to go back to their hotels.”

    There are also reports of foreign journalists being denied access to the country. Writing on his blog, Buxton added:

    “We arrived in Bahrain last night, and the airport was relatively quiet. Despite this, I and about five of my colleagues had our passports taken away with no explanation.

    “After a 15 minute wait, our passports were returned, again with no real explanation as to where they had been taken or what had been done with them other than that it was part of new procedure. How this will work over the Grand Prix weekend when the airport is set to become far busier and with a sudden and vast influx of international media remains to be seen.”

    This week’s GP2 Asia races were scheduled to take place on Friday and Saturday.

    F1 is due to test at the Bahrain International Circuit on March 3rd-6th ahead of the first race of the season.

    Update: The GP2 Asia race has been cancelled. The series organisers issued the following statement:

    “Following the current events in Bahrain, at the request of the Bahrain Motorsport Federation, it has been decided that the remainder of the meeting which was supposed to take place this week at Bahrain International Circuit is cancelled due to force majeure.”

    Brothers & sisters of #Egypt, you have given the world the most precious gift: the belief that ultimately right will prevail. -Desmond Tutu

    by conchita on Fri Feb 18, 2011 at 07:32:42 AM PST

  •  This is horrible!! (4+ / 0-)

     The Guardian:  

    Dr. Ghassan from Salmaniya hospital:"The hospital is full of casualties. All the medical staff are running off their feet. It's hard to accommodate all these causalities; we are full. It's unbelievable scenes, it's indescribable."

    When asked how many had died or were injured he said it was uncountable and confirmed that protesters had been hit by tear gas and bullets:

        It's very difficult to count the number of casualties ... They were thrown on the road; there are tens if not hundreds of people still on the road. The ambulances can't access them ... These people are innocent; they don't hold machine guns, they don't hold swords, they are innocent protesters.

    People coming to the hospital told him that the majority of the shots were to the head "in order to kill – patients with brains shattered, their skulls are full of bullets. This is indescribable. This country is a peaceful country," he said, before describing the situation as like a war zone.

    Its *Gandhi*, not Ghandi

    by poco on Fri Feb 18, 2011 at 07:36:05 AM PST

  •  The Guardian: (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    lotlizard, angry marmot
    According to my colleague Martin Chulov in Bahrain, the latest outbreak of violence occurred when a few hundred people marched to Pearl roundabout, prompting the security forces to fire shots into the air. But a number of people were injured and have been taken to hospital; the hospital was at one point surrounded by riot police, sparking a moment of panic.

    Its *Gandhi*, not Ghandi

    by poco on Fri Feb 18, 2011 at 07:59:31 AM PST

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