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Dave Cieslewicz

Madison Mayor Dave Cieslewicz is "furious" that Governor Scott Walker told (who he thought was) Kansas billionaire David Koch, that he had "thought about" planting troublemakers in the crowds of protesters outside of the state Capitol:

"But I find it disturbing that Governor Walker apparently considered disrupting the protests. A transcript of a faux call to the governor from a man he believed was conservative icon and top Walker donor David Koch finds "Koch" offering to help Walker out by, "planting some troublemakers" among the demonstrators. Walker's reply:

'We thought about that....'

"Really, Governor, you thought about that? The governor of Wisconsin actually thought about planting people in the crowds who might turn these peaceful protests into something ugly?  [...]

For the governor of our state to suggest that he even considered disrupting these peaceful protests is a serious thing. We need to hear more from him on exactly what he meant. I hope the media will keep after it."

And besides calling out Walker for his disgusting comment, Cieslewicz praised the protesters for their "high civic engagement and peaceful protest" and lauded the fact that they're organizing crews to clean up after the half-a-million or so protesters that have come through over the past ten days.

Cieslewicz's comments come on the same day that Madison's Police Chief Noble Wray
called on Walker to explain his "troubling" and "unsettling" comments.

Kudos to both these Madison public officials and the Wisconsin media for not ignoring Walker's actions.

The same cannot be said for the national media.

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Comment Preferences

  •  can someone say dictator? (19+ / 0-)

    and he sent state police after the democrats?  to do what?  threaten to shoot and kill them if they don't come with the police?  

    •  Walker's wrong, but not a dictator (6+ / 0-)

       The term "dictator" has been thrown around a lot on this site recently.  Walker is a jerk, and his attempt to bust the unions is immoral, but that's not enough to call him a dictator.

        He did not send the state police after state legislators to shoot them but to escort them to the capitol to do their work.  The same happened a few years ago when some Oklahoma (?) state legislators went to Texas to protest and delay a bill they thought particulary reprehensible.

        The state legislators who refuse to attend sessions of their body are engaging in a type of civil disobedience.  They are, on some interpretations, breaking the law.  

        Let me state for the record, I support the legislators who are trying to make sure this terrible proposal by Gov. Walker is delayed as long as possible.  But Walker is not being a dictator.

      •  he seems to be trying, though (7+ / 0-)

        to be a little monarch.

        hope springs eternal and DAMN is she getting tired!

        by alguien on Thu Feb 24, 2011 at 12:55:05 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  What law are the Senators breaking? (4+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        tikkun, 3goldens, TofG, BobSmith415
        •  Here's the law (0+ / 0-)

          I'm not a lawyer or a Wisconsin resident, so I wasn't sure if they were actually breaking the law or not.  That's why I said, "on some interpretations" (certainly including Gov. Walker's interpretation).

          But here's an excerpt from an article in The Daily Caller by Matthew Boyle:

          The “missing” Wisconsin Democratic state senators could be charged with class 1 felonies, but state Republican Sen. Glenn Grothman tells The Daily Caller that he and his colleagues most likely won’t push for the Democrats to be charged.

          “All we want is to get a vote on the bill,” Grothman said in a phone interview. “They have to come back sooner or later, whether that be tomorrow or early next week.”

          Part 946.12, Section 1, of Wisconsin state law says that a class 1 felony is committed when a public official “intentionally fails or refuses to perform a known mandatory, nondiscretionary, ministerial duty of the officer’s or employee’s office or employment within the time or in the manner required by law.

          emphasis added

          The article is dated Feb. 18.  I have no idea if this outlet leans right or left, or is pretty neutral.

          •  Significant (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:

            This potentially does make what the legislators are doing criminal and has a number of implications.   The annotations suggest that legislators are covered by the law and that the legislatives rules may be the source of the duty.

            •  B.S. (5+ / 0-)

              Avoiding a quorum call is an old legislative tactic. It has been used in other states and by both parties numerous times throughout the history of our country.  Abraham Lincoln even tried it once.  It isn't a felony and never has been one.  It is similar to a filibuster.  The Seargent at Arms of the Senate can physically compel a Senator to attend, if they can get their hands one them.  

              The statute being quoted is being used out of context.  For shame!

              Obama 2008 - Damn, I got fooled again!

              by Gareth G on Thu Feb 24, 2011 at 02:04:06 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  What do you mean by "out of context"? (0+ / 0-)

                Are you claiming that the statute does not apply to legislators?

                Or that Senators do not have a duty to attend the Senate while in session?

                Or that the duty is not ministerial?

                If not, what are you claiming as the basis for the statute not being applicable?

                (The first two clearly fail and I think the third does as well.)

              •  Old tactics can be illegal (0+ / 0-)

                1)  Just because a tactic is old doesn't make it legal.  Sit-ins have been used for decades, but it's till illegal to trespass, and those performing the sit-in can be arrested.

                2)  An action is not automatically legal simply because Abraham Lincoln did it.

                3)  The tactic might be legal in one state and illegal in another.  But, if I recall correctly, when Oklahoma legislators did this, state troopers were asked to look for them as Wisconsin state troopers have been asked to do.

                I'm not saying the Wisconsin legislators are morally wrong to sit out; it might be the only way to stop an immoral policy being enacted.  But it does appear to be illegal.

            •  It might be (0+ / 0-)

              if it were actually a law.  That is not a Wisconsin statute cite.  There is no "Part 946.12" of Wisconsin statutes.

              Plus, it would be highly irregular to say the least to define a failure of a public official to perform a "ministerial" duty as a felony.  So, if a local official refuses to issue a building permit it is a felony?  I don't think so.

              The remedy for that is normally civil - a writ of mandamus.  Not criminal prosecution.

              •  OK my apologies (0+ / 0-)

                Found it.  

                •  Anyway (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:

                  After reading it, I still think it is a significant reach to describe attendance at a legislative session as a "non-discretionary, ministerial duty."

                  "A public officer's duty is ministerial only when it is absolute, certain and imperative, involving merely the performance of a specific task when the law imposes, prescribes and defines the time, mode and occasion for its performance with such certainty that nothing remains for judgment or discretion."  Lister v. Bd. of Regents, 240 N.W.2d 610, 622 (Wis. 1976).

                  •  Attendance at the Senate when it is in session (0+ / 0-)

                    would then seem to easily fit within the definition of ministerial.  The annotations to the statute note that legislative rules are sufficient to define the duty.

                    •  IIRC the cases to which those annotations (0+ / 0-)

                      refer were not concerned with sub 1, but with other subparagraphs of the section.  Specifically, those cases concerned the use of state resources for campaign purposes.  They were not concerned with defining ministerial duties per sub 1, but rather whether a discretionary duty of the office was being misused per sub 3.

                      Beyond that, I would question if the Senate rule actually makes a duty of attendance "absolute, certain, and imperative."  Rule 15 says that a quorum must be present to conduct business, and that a smaller number can act to "compel" attendance.  Rule 16 says that a member may not be absent from the session for an entire day without first obtaining a leave of absence.  Rule 84 requires the Sergeant at Arms to "find and bring in" members placed on a list of those absent without leave.  Taken in whole, while these rules might suggest the Sergeant at Arms has a ministerial duty to perform his/her presribed role, it also suggests that the duty of attendance by the member is perhaps not absolutely certain and imperative.  After all, these rules don't prescribe any consequence for being absent without leave other than being brought in by the Sergeant at Arms if he/she is successful in finding the absent member.  So, if I am a member, I might reasonably think that I can be absent without leave upon my own judgement for sufficient reason, and wait to see if the Sergeant at Arms finds and brings me in.    

                      Also, beyond the case law definition of "ministerial" duties cited above, I think you have to take into account that "ministerial duty" is generally a legal term of art.  In other words, just because a rule meets those criteria, it doesn't mean it imposes a ministerial duty.  For example, Senate Rule 72(2) requires that the "members shall remain in their seats" while the ayes and noes are being called.  Surely, that rule is very specific as to exactly what is to be done and exactly when.  But I don't think you'll find many who will agree that is a "ministerial duty" as that term is used as a legal term of art.  And I think you would find even fewer who would think knowing violation of that rule should be a felony.


                  •  I would be curious which part of the definition of (0+ / 0-)

                    ministerial is not met?

          •  Augustine (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Ice Blue, Virginia mom, ibinreno

            The Daily Caller is NOT left-leaning as a check of the website would show you.  Here:

            About Us

            Founded by Tucker Carlson, a 20-year veteran of print and broadcast media, and Neil Patel, former chief policy adviser to Vice President Cheney, The Daily Caller is a 24-hour news site providing original reporting from an experienced team of professional reporters, thought-provoking commentary and breaking news

            Jesus.  Tucker effing Carlson?!  And Neil Patel?!

            If the people stay united, they cannot be defeated. Solidarity!

            by 3goldens on Thu Feb 24, 2011 at 02:25:43 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  Is the information false? (0+ / 0-)

               So it's a right-wing paper.  I'm not familiar with it, but I do have a vague recollection now of hearing about Tucker Carlson's new venture.

                But is the author misquoting or misrepresenting the statute?  We might not like the messenger, but is it true?  

                Not one single media outlet - not even NPR - has questioned whether Walker has overstepped his bounds by calling on the state troopers.  Now, that could be sloppy journalism, and some members of this site like to say NPR stands for "Nice, Polite Republicans."  

                But none of that changes whether the site accurately represents the state law.  If the part the columnist quoted is taken out of context, then explain why it doesn't really mean what he said he meant.

          •  Walker may be breaking this one: (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Sol Fed Joe, BadgerGirl, 3goldens

            17.03  Vacancies, how caused

            17.03(5) Whether or not sentenced to imprisonment, the incumbent is convicted and sentenced by a state or federal court for treason, felony or other crime of whatsoever nature punishable by imprisonment in any jail or prison for one year or more, or for any offense involving a violation of the incumbent's official oath. A vacancy so created is not affected by a stay of execution of judgment. Reversal of the judgment, but not a pardon, immediately restores the incumbent to office if the term has not expired and entitles the incumbent to the emoluments of the office for the time the incumbent would have served in the office but for the judgment.

            Hiring goons to come beat up your own peace-loving citizens...tsk, tsk, Scotty.  That's not very nice.  

            Also, when you're negotiating with a Union, it's illegal to threaten them with layoffs.  That's federal labor law.  

            I guess that's why we've got the Government Accountability Board.

            Never meddle in the affairs of cats, for they are subtle and will piss on your computer.--Bruce Graham

            by Ice Blue on Thu Feb 24, 2011 at 02:31:37 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

        •  Rules (0+ / 0-)

          I believe these are rules of the appropriate legislature in most states and at the federal level.  I'm not so sure it's an actual Law but rules of the (for example) Senate have the effect of law.  This is why a House Sergent at Arms is asked to go retrieve missing Representatives or to go get people who do not show up for House subpoenas.  In the case of the Federal House, they don't ask the FBI, or the DC Police to enforce the subpoena, it's the duty of the Sergent at Arms.

          I'm pretty sure it's the same idea with the State legislatures and why they are using the State police rather than the local cops to search the missing WI senator's houses.  It's a fine distinction between Law and Rule and who is charged with enforcing it.

          [Terrorists] are a dime a dozen, they are all over the world and for every one we lock up there will be three to take his place. --Digby

          by rabel on Thu Feb 24, 2011 at 01:26:23 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

      •  I would call Walker (5+ / 0-)

        much worse than dictator.  There have been benevolent dictators.
        Walker is corrupt and belligerent. He should depart from his office.

        Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. Voltaire

        by barnowl on Thu Feb 24, 2011 at 01:20:11 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Haven't we seen this before? (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Justanothernyer, lexington1

           Didn't Republicans say things like this about President Obama in 2009?  "He's forcing this [health care, stimulus, etc.] down our throats!  The American people don't want it!"

            I don't like what Gov. Walker is doing.  I think it's immoral.  But it's not like he hid his contempt for unions before the election, and the people did elect him.  It's true that now a majority of people don't want him to take away collective bargaining rights, but if that means he MUST change his mind or be called a dictator, then President Obama must bow to the polls and abandon his goals if a majority of the American people say so.  One mark of a courageous leader is to do what is right even if it's not popular.  Now, that does NOT mean unpopular decisions are always the right ones.  Walker is most definitely on the wrong side of morality here, but do look at the implications of your argument.

          •  Oh no you don't! (6+ / 0-)
            But it's not like he hid his contempt for unions before the election, and the people did elect him.

            I live in Wisconsin and I can absolutely assure you that Walker NEVER said that he would deny collective bargaining rights of public employees--something they've had since 1959 here.  He NEVER said that he would commit an unfair labor practice by refusing to even meet with OR negotiate with the unions.  So, don't try to plant that bullshit because I can guarantee you that if he had said anything even close to these things he would NEVER have been elected.  

            Your quoting from The Daily Caller (owned by Tucker Carlson and a guy who worked for Cheney) and now this comment make me wonder what in hell you're doing here.  You sure as hell do not sound like a Democrat.

            If the people stay united, they cannot be defeated. Solidarity!

            by 3goldens on Thu Feb 24, 2011 at 02:30:57 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  Read (0+ / 0-)

              I did a Google search using relevant terms.  The article appeared.  I gave a full citation for it, with the author's name.  I do not know the author or the paper and stated such.  I have hidden nothing.  I have repeatedly said I disagree with Walker.  I have been a member of dKos for 5 years and have a user ID under 100,000.  I am a registered Democrat in a state (AL) that doesn't even require party registration to vote in primaries.  I have refused to cross picket lines to shop.

              I never said that Walker said he would bust unions.  I said he never hid his contempt for unions.  Please tell me, did he pretend to like unions or respect them during the campaign?

              You do not know me.  You have misunderstood and  misrepresented what I wrote.  Please read more carefully in the future.

              •  You still did not do your "homework" (0+ / 0-)

                in that you quoted from a right-wing site and you could have found that out very easily by simply clicking on the "About" link on the website.  It's not a matter of whether or not you "know" the author or the web site you pulled information from--you should have known better than to just quote from a Google search that led you to that site without further checking the site out.  You are the one who needs to read more carefully and be aware of who/where you are getting information that you then post as if it's accurate.  Tucker Carlson and his co-owner friend of that website are not reliable sources of information.  

                Walker's not liking or respecting unions is one thing.  To take office and THEN proceed to use his power to destroy them is another.  The point is this:  Walker was dishonest during his campaign in that he NEVER gave any indication that he would seek to destroy public employee unions.  Had he been up-front about his plans for those unions, he would NOT have been elected.  Do not infer that he got elected as if people KNEW what he was going to do--because that is NOT the truth.  I live in Wisconsin--I was born and raised here--and I would venture to say that I am a whole lot more familiar with how Walker campaigned here than you would be in AL.

                If the people stay united, they cannot be defeated. Solidarity!

                by 3goldens on Fri Feb 25, 2011 at 02:06:44 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  The site's political leanings (0+ / 0-)

                   I did not know The Daily Caller was a right-wing website.  I don't follow Tucker Carlson.

                    But if the law the author cited was cited correctly and not taken out of context, what does it matter where it comes from?

                    If the law was taken out of context and misapplied, please explain the correct interpretation and application.

      •  "some Oklahoma (?) state legislators went to Texas (3+ / 0-)

        W T F ?  It was the famous "Killer D's" of TEXAS, who went to Oklahoma.  Then later, other members of the House went to New Mexico in order to deny the GOP a quorum while Speaker Tom Craddick (R-evil) and former-representative-now-convicted-felon Tom DeLay tried to re-district the entire state of Texas (with which boundaries we continue to suffer to this day).  In 1993, a completely NOT Census re-districting year.

        This has been described in great detail, and manuy times here on DKos.

        And, DeLay and others tried to use the Texas Rangers and the FBI , FAA and ICE to go after the Democrats.  ALL quite illegal and outside their authority.

        A rather loose construction of the events in the past, and a little too forgiving of the current Governor of Wisconsin's actions. imo.


        Torture is Wrong! We live near W so you don't have to. Send love.

        by tom 47 on Thu Feb 24, 2011 at 02:08:07 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Too forgiving? (0+ / 0-)

           I have repeatedly stated I think he is wrong.  He can be an immoral jerk without being a dictator.  I have also said I think the senators who are boycotting the senate are doing the right thing.  Civil disobedience, by definition, means someone is breaking the law.  I think civil disobedience is morally necessary at times, and this may be one.  Just because I think the senators might actually be breaking a Wisconsin state law does not mean I don't support them in both their goals and their tactics.  Contrary to what some have assumed, I am not a slavish adherent of the law.  Both my master's thesis and doctoral dissertations defended the moral right of civil disobedience.

            I'm sorry I didn't remember the exact details and reversed the states involved.  1993 was 18 years ago.

            Tom DeLay was clearly acting outside his authority, and it certainly isn't the job of the FBI, FAA, and ICE (all federal agencies) to handle state issues.  But Walker is the governor of the state (not a U.S. representative from the state as DeLay was).  And he's using state police.  And there's a state law in Wisconsin that apparently backs him up.

            Let's focus on the issue at hand.  Is Gov. Walker acting illegaly when he sends state troopers to corral the senators who have not come to the scheduled meetings?  The law cited suggests they are.  If you disagree, state why.

      •  No, not correct about (4+ / 0-)

        Walker sending the state police to "escort" the State Dem. Senators "to the Capitol to do their work."  This was nothing but thuggery on the part of the Senate Majority Leader in the State Senate--a Republican named Scott Fitzgerald.  You see the state troopers are prohibited from arresting a legislator for not being at work.  So, this was just to harrass the families of these Senate Dems under the guise that "the Repubs had heard that some of the Dem Senators were coming home to sleep at night and then fleeing the state in the morning."  And here is a quote from an article on in Madison about this incident:

        Police can't arrest senators but Republican Senate Majority Leader Scott Fitzgerald said he hoped the lawmakers would feel compelled to return if police showed up at their doors.

        This wasn't a benign move--it was intended to harrass and intimidate.  

        If the people stay united, they cannot be defeated. Solidarity!

        by 3goldens on Thu Feb 24, 2011 at 02:20:51 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  Right. He wants to be a dictator. (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:

        But he isn't one. (yet)

    •  We were in Madison in June.. (7+ / 0-)

      Admittedly a particularly good (and a good bit warmer ) time to be there. But I was impressed (my dearly beloved is quite familiar with it, being as she's a native of Kenosha) by the city's cleanliness, its organized, progessive look, and its friendly attitude (even toward a Southerner like me).

      It's obvious to me now a big reason for that: Madison is run by responsible, progressive public officials who respect their citizens, and respect their right to assemble and protest (apparently has been for a long time, given the UW's tradition of protests). Clearly, their current mayor and police chief typify that attitude. I'm not even from there, but my opinion of "Mad-Town" is even higher now given their actions toward the protestors, and on this issue. They obviously have far more respect for their fellow man and woman than does Wisconsin's current governor.

      "Those who forget the past are doomed to repeat it."--George Santayana

      by GainesT1958 on Thu Feb 24, 2011 at 01:48:26 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Seems like Walker is having (31+ / 0-)

    a very bad week.

    Shared sacrifice: The poor and the middle class suffer cuts to S.S., Medicare, Medicaid, LIHEAP, etc., while the rich suffer seeing their taxes fall to the lowest level in decades, as opposed to them falling to zero.

    by jazzmaniac on Thu Feb 24, 2011 at 12:47:00 PM PST

  •  I hope the media stays on this like a (8+ / 0-)

    tick on a dead rat.

    "If we don't succeed, we run the risk of failure."- J. Danforth Quayle

    by Sychotic1 on Thu Feb 24, 2011 at 12:47:51 PM PST

  •  I question his qualifications to lead (15+ / 0-)

    anything but a lynch mob.

    "Another world is not only possible, she is on her way. On a quiet day, I can hear her breathing." Arundhati Roy

    by LaFeminista on Thu Feb 24, 2011 at 12:48:11 PM PST

  •  Good for them! (21+ / 0-)

    I'm sure the MSM will pick this up right away. Just like they're going to have labor leaders on their Sunday talk shows...........

    In this world of sin and sorrow there is always something to be thankful for; as for me, I rejoice that I am not a Republican. ~ Mencken

    by royce on Thu Feb 24, 2011 at 12:48:31 PM PST

  •  So glad he and the Police Chief (27+ / 0-)

    are calling Walker out on this.  It really shows what lip-service his allegiance to the people of Wisconsin is, in fact, as well as showing how low he can stoop.

  •  Join the recall walker FB Group (8+ / 0-)

    Someone irked me by posting that the Support Walker group has about the same number of people. I know it is stupid but it annoyed me anyway :P

  •  But he "ruled it out" after realizing how bad (15+ / 0-)

    it might make him look if he got caught.

    Once in a while you get shown the light, in the strangest of places if you look at it right.

    by darthstar on Thu Feb 24, 2011 at 12:49:03 PM PST

  •  Yes! Keep the Pressure on! n/t (6+ / 0-)

    "Do what you can with what you have where you are." - Teddy Roosevelt

    by Andrew C White on Thu Feb 24, 2011 at 12:50:16 PM PST

  •  I'm not overly concerned about the national press (23+ / 0-)

    This issue will be settled in Wisconsin by Wisconsites, and if it keeps going the way it has Walker is going to fall apart.

    When that happens, it will be a national story too big to ignore.

    The other impact Wisconsin is having, energizing similar protests in other states, is proceeding along nicely through facebook, Twitter, and sites like Daily Kos.  Let the New York Times, NBC, and Fox cover what they will.  The match has been lit and the prairie fire is sweeping across our land.

    The GOP is discovering, much to its chagrin, that there is no power greater than the union.

    Give me your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free
    ¡Boycott Arizona!

    by litho on Thu Feb 24, 2011 at 12:51:14 PM PST

  •  Oil Group Starts Political Bribery (5+ / 0-)

    Oil Group, API, Starts Political Bribery, As Obama Admin Proposes To End $46 Billion in Tax Breaks!

    "The American Petroleum Institute, the largest oil and gas industry trade group, will start backing political candidates this year as the U.S. considers repealing $46 billion in subsidies and imposing pollution rules."  (Which would greatly aid U.S. economy!)

    "The group, whose members include Exxon Mobil Corp. and Chevron Corp., would make donations separately from industry executives and employees, who gave $27.6 million mostly to Republican candidates for Congress last year, according to the Center for Responsive Politics in Washington. API has paid for advertising on policy issues and to lobby on legislation.

    “This is adding one more tool to our toolkit,” said Martin Durbin, API’s executive vice president for government affairs, in an interview. “At the end of the day, our mission is trying to influence the policy debate.”

    The Obama administration is proposing to end tax breaks for energy companies and to limit greenhouse-gas emissions, actions the API says will cost jobs and cut domestic production as fuel costs rise. "

    (Another Example of Big Oil Buying Votes so that the Rich get Richer and the Poor get Poorer!)

  •  this can be his Achilles heel.. (19+ / 0-)

    His comments are clear. He states for all to hear that the only reason (and he does use the word "only") for not planting provocateurs in the crowd is that he thought it would result in the wrong political outcome.

    This is an indefensible statement.

    Furthermore..he believes he is talking on a private conversation..something that ethic investigators would view as highly supportive of him actually expressing his true intent..

    There are parents who took their children to a peaceful demonstration  as a civics lesson and now come to learn that their Governor was thinking about creating a situation of conflict which could result in violence..

    and only chose not too cause he wouldn't get the right political answer..

    He has given an opening for the dynamic to be changed -
    this should be about demanding his resignation on ethical grounds now..

    only as HIS WAY OUT..should the bill be withdrawn and collective bargaining preserved..

  •  Actually, the Society of Professional Journalists (6+ / 0-)

    sent out a message asking their members not to report on the Faux Koch thing.

  •  I like the baseball bat comment too (10+ / 0-)

    the more power these teabaggers get, the more they act like dictators- you can feel the Mubarak-envy in his words...

    Oh, Speaker Boehner, is that a tan? I thought you'd been attacked by a mob of orange sharpies!

    by Terminus on Thu Feb 24, 2011 at 12:51:53 PM PST

    •  the lust for power is a terrible thing. (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      BadgerGirl, Ice Blue

      I don't have it, but it's something that never appeases.  You never have enough.  It never satisfies.  It never satiates.

      Just like fame and money.

      Emo's Prayer - "Lord, please break the laws of the universe for my convenience" - Emo Philips

      by AlyoshaKaramazov on Thu Feb 24, 2011 at 01:27:22 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  That comment was in regard to any possible (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      BadgerGirl, 3goldens

      meeting in his office with the Senate Dems.  It was figurative-- him trying to sound tough for his boss.  The exchange about infiltrating the protesters to cause trouble, and the possible outcome, suggested actual dirty tricks against the people of Wisconsin.  I can see how both the mayor and the police chief of Madison would be interested, as should be the attorney general.  But I'm guessing that he or she is a Republican.

      •  He is a Republican-- (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        BadgerGirl, Mike08

        his name is J.B. Van Hollen and he is a royal PITA.  In WI this is an elective office and he served under Gov. Jim Doyle (Democrat) who had two terms and then elected not to run in 2010.  Van Hollen was a loose cannon and he most definitely is not at all interested in working FOR the people of this state.  Thus far, under Walker, he's announced that even though he joined with other State AGs to contest the Affordable Care Act, that the state should NOT follow any of the provisions due to kick in this year.  He based that on TWO Republican appellate judges who ruled the ACA was unconstitutional.  Never mind waiting until the Supremes decide this issue--Van Hollen just makes his own decisions.  He's a complete jackass and is definitely working with Walker to give him legal advice on how to screw the public employees, the poor, the elderly and just about everybody else in this state except for corporations.

        If the people stay united, they cannot be defeated. Solidarity!

        by 3goldens on Thu Feb 24, 2011 at 02:47:37 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

  •  "National Media" (17+ / 0-)

    by and large support the management line without fail.

    Taken a look at your primetime network and cable TV line-up? Reality Shows are all the rage not because they are popular but because they skirt performers unions. Major media enterprises most assuredly do not want to air critical coverage of a person carrying out their mission of eliminating the influence of unions. Nowhere is this more farcically played out than on news networks where on-air AFTRA members routinely promote the management line while pretending to be "objective."

    Unfortunately what will be required is the nation's comedians turning Walker into a laughing stock, which is all but guaranteed. At that point it will be "cool" to laugh at Walker and he won't be so easy to ignore. He also won't be able to try the Palin gambit of showing up alongside her lampooner as if she's in on the joke.

    Folks please think twice before watching Top Chef, Project Runway, Housewives of Dumbfuckistan, Survivor, or the rest of that stuff. Every one of them have at heart the desire to cut unionized workers out of the profit chain, so that producers can keep more for themselves, by virtue of their stranglehold on the means of distribution.

  •  About that national media (11+ / 0-)

    Really, I have been waiting for this story to become a major scandal that breaks Walker. Yesterday, I thought it would. If it does have any larger ramifications, it will be through the efforts of the progressive blogosphere.

    If it is left to the MSM, this story will quickly run through the news cycle and left to dustbin of marginalized history.

    This implication,which must be combated, shows just the so-called "liberal" MSM takes it cues from the FOX rage machine.

    We can compare this Walker/faux Koch tape to Brietbart's ACORN (faked) videos or his re-editing of Shirley Sharrod. Fox went 24/7 not just covering the event but drumming up outrage and demanding retribution. Then the other networks followed the lead and conservative politicians stepped up to make these "outrage actions caught (i.e., manufactured) on tape into issues that demanded immediate action. What Stauber and Rampton call the conservative media echo chamber generated its desired ramifications.

    If this scam had involved say Jerry Brown and the dreaded George Soros, I guarantee the "Brown must resign" demands would be blasted all over the MSM as would outraged Republicans demanding the entire Democratic party must be disbanded immediately.  

    In contrast, the conservative media is basically playing the "so what game?," liberals are blowing this out of proportion to defuse any backlash against Walker.

    I have also seen some teabagger apologists (probably paid ones) trolling all over Huffpo and Slate saying, "well,
    this obviously was not the real "Charles Koch" so its much ado about nothing, ignoring the small that Walker though it was and that is what the issue is about.

    The other defense meme is that event shows how devious those on the left are because conservatives would never stoop to such trickery... cough cough).  

    •  What we must all ask (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      continuously is if it were a Democrat would you feel the same way.  If Walker was a D and was pranked they would all be high fiving.  The worst thing about this is Democrats were targetted and the msm went with the prank.  It was only exposed by bloggers.

      And she's good at appearing sane, I just want you to know. Winwood/Capaldi

      by tobendaro on Thu Feb 24, 2011 at 02:20:08 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  I'm enjoying the outrage, but... (4+ / 0-)

    Being the unreasonably reasonable person I am, it seems that perhaps Walker was just trying to avoid being disagreeable with (the person he thought was) Koch.

    Like, "we thought about that," may have been polite-speak for, "are you out of your fucking mind?"

    I don't know.

    "Preventive war is a crime not easily committed by a country that retains any traces of democracy." -George Orwell

    by Zackpunk on Thu Feb 24, 2011 at 12:53:00 PM PST

    •  What I got is that he wasn't sure it was Koch (0+ / 0-)

      Not 100% sure of that and like a "mafia Don" he was also taking on the phone (being careful)

    •  Given that Walker has refused phone calls from (12+ / 0-)

      Democratic senators who wanted to discuss their concerns, I think your point is just unreasonable.

      Walker also explained that "Koch" should not contact a potentially amenable senator on the grounds that said senator was not "really one of us."

      Walker also laid out a plan to trick Democratic senators by promising to negotiated and then passing the bill when they entered into the capital.

      Walker also explained that his main concern about bringing in trouble makers was that might create pressure on him to negotiate.

      He also agreed to take a paid vacation to Koch's California in return for busting the Union.

      he also acknowledged that this is indeed a coordinated national effort among Rep. governors to break unions and hurt the opposition party.

      I could go on but just what does it "unreasonably reasonable one" to actually see that there is a problem her.

      •  Yeah, but... (0+ / 0-)

        I'm not talking about any of that. I'm just talking about the one particular comment. The comment this Story is based on. And that comment -- I'm just not sure how much there is there.

        "Preventive war is a crime not easily committed by a country that retains any traces of democracy." -George Orwell

        by Zackpunk on Thu Feb 24, 2011 at 01:01:12 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  You are not paying attention (5+ / 0-)

          That is my most charitable take on this thread: Read this excerpt:

          Koch: We’ll back you any way we can. What we were thinking about the crowd was, uh, was planting some troublemakers.

          Walker: You know, well, the only problem with that —because we thought about that. The problem—the, my only gut reaction to that is right now the lawmakers I’ve talked to have just completely had it with them, the public is not really fond of this…[explains that planting troublemakers may not work.] My only fear would be if there’s a ruckus caused is that maybe the governor has to settle to solve all these problems…[something about '60s liberals.]…Let ‘em protest all they want…Sooner or later the media stops finding it interesting.

          That passage clearly indicates that 1) Walker really considered it but ruled it out after cost and benefit analysis and the cost was in terms of PR issues.

          Of course, you are just not sure and just don't know because you are just so darned reasonable.

          Also, this is elected executive officer of the State of wisconsin who is, even if we use your own strained reasoning, will to entertain with Koch a very unethical and illegal strategy. This would be the approach of someone who does not want to get on his BOSS's bad side so in that one respect, I can agree with you.  

          •  Let me ask you something (0+ / 0-)

            Have you ever had a conversation with a financial backer? They say a lot of stupid things, and you need to find some way to make them feel good about their ideas while at the same time rejecting them. So you do a lot of, "Yeah, that's an interesting idea, we thought about that, but..."

            Believe me, I've had those conversations, I know what they sound like. And I'm sorry, that's what this sounds like to me.

            Could it be that Walker really did seriously consider planting troublemakers? Yes, that's possible. Could it be that he was just trying to be polite? I think that's also possible. So there's some doubt there, in my mind at least.

            "Preventive war is a crime not easily committed by a country that retains any traces of democracy." -George Orwell

            by Zackpunk on Thu Feb 24, 2011 at 01:16:44 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  Of Koch brothers deny (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Virginia mom

              having any extensive interest in Wisconsin. And so, everyone is just supposed to feel real good that Walker's financial backer is an out of state billionaire pushing self-interested privatizing schemes.

              I guess that is why Walker's campaign slogan

              Walker for a better Charles Koch.

              •  No (0+ / 0-)

                No one is supposed to feel good about that. There is plenty of concrete, provable reasons to feel very bad about Walker and Koch. I'm just not sure this is one of them. Could be. We don't know.

                "Preventive war is a crime not easily committed by a country that retains any traces of democracy." -George Orwell

                by Zackpunk on Thu Feb 24, 2011 at 01:36:44 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

            •  These guys plant trouble makers. (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              3goldens, Virginia mom

              That's what they do.  Labor history and the progressive movement are full of instances of such.  But this guy actually got caught on tape.  The idea that he would do such a thing is perfectly believable and almost to be expected.

        •  You must use a strange dictionary (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:

          to come up with that "translation" of his statement.

      •  Also (0+ / 0-)

        Reading over your comment again...

        Look. I think it's really important that we be completely fair and reasonable, even when dealing with people whom we despise. And Walker absolutely did not agree to take a paid vacation in return for union busting. (The person pretending to be) Koch made an off-handed remark, "Hey come out to California, I'll show you a good time," and like anyone would, Walker replied, "sure, sounds great." As far as we know, he hung up the phone and thought, "What a jerk." We just don't know.

        Come on now people. I hate this Walker guy as much as the rest of you. But let's not ditch our intellectual honesty in the interest of defeating him.

        "Preventive war is a crime not easily committed by a country that retains any traces of democracy." -George Orwell

        by Zackpunk on Thu Feb 24, 2011 at 01:11:04 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  I take it you haven't read the transcript closely (0+ / 0-)
          And Walker absolutely did not agree to take a paid vacation in return for union busting. (The person pretending to be) Koch made an off-handed remark, "Hey come out to California, I'll show you a good time," and like anyone would, Walker replied, "sure, sounds great."

          Ummmm no.

          Here's the quote from the transcript:

          Murphy: [Laughs] Well, I tell you what, Scott: once you crush these bastards I’ll fly you out to Cali and really show you a good time.

          Walker: All right, that would be outstanding. Thanks, thanks for all the support and helping us move the cause forward, and we appreciate it. We’re, uh, we’re doing the just and right thing for the right reasons, and it’s all about getting our freedoms back.

          "Koch" made a clear offer and gave the reason why. Walker did not contradict him or decline.

          Read carefully. Then get back to me about intellectual honesty.

          The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest excercises in moral philosophy... the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness.

          by lcbo on Thu Feb 24, 2011 at 04:47:23 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

    •  Reasonable thought (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      3goldens, Rasputin

      but the context of the rest of the conversation makes that scenario highly unlikely.

      "Do what you can with what you have where you are." - Teddy Roosevelt

      by Andrew C White on Thu Feb 24, 2011 at 01:00:36 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  How so? (0+ / 0-)

        My theory is that (the person claiming to be) Koch made a ridiculous suggestion, and Walker, not wanting to be disagreeable, said basically, "Uh, yeah, great idea, but..." and then moved on. I don't see how the context alters that theory.

        And I'm not saying it necessarily happened that way. I'm just saying I could see that being the case. It seems plausible to me. There's some doubt, and perhaps some benefit of that doubt to be given.

        "Preventive war is a crime not easily committed by a country that retains any traces of democracy." -George Orwell

        by Zackpunk on Thu Feb 24, 2011 at 01:04:27 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  The context being that Walker (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          JayBat, Mike08

          spends a good bit of the rest of the phone call discussing his own scheming. He also responds to the suggestion with an answer that shows he had thought out reasons why not... which in turn shows that he had thought about reasons why.

          "Do what you can with what you have where you are." - Teddy Roosevelt

          by Andrew C White on Thu Feb 24, 2011 at 01:19:58 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  Could be, yeah (0+ / 0-)

            I do think the comment is worth attention. But at the end of the day, I'm not sure how big a deal it is. I mean, even if it turns out they did discuss it, it doesn't necessarily mean they were discussing it seriously.

            I'm just not sure how much I can blame a person for talking about doing the wrong thing, and then deciding not to do that thing. It shows a possible willingness to entertain ideas that are potentially illegal. But it's all so vague and subjective. Did they have a serious plan on the board that they pulled at the last minute in fear of getting caught? Or was there some stupid aid fresh out of college who suggested the idea and was shot down by everyone else in the room?

            I could conceive a number of scenarios in which this basically means nothing.

            "Preventive war is a crime not easily committed by a country that retains any traces of democracy." -George Orwell

            by Zackpunk on Thu Feb 24, 2011 at 01:29:49 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  Okay I am convinced Zachpunk (3+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              JayBat, 3goldens, Virginia mom

              Everyone on the KOS please stop making a big deal about this stor. let's be reasonable nothing here. Go back to watching American idol and let Scott Walker do his bidding for his financial backer and boss charles Koch. Yeah, I know he is technically supposed to represent the people of WI but let's be reasonable Charles Koch is really rich.

              •  ? (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                Andrew C White

                Right, that actually was my second point -- that people should be more complacent and watch more television.

                I'm just saying that this one comment he made in this one phone call, may not actually turn out to mean anything.


                "Preventive war is a crime not easily committed by a country that retains any traces of democracy." -George Orwell

                by Zackpunk on Thu Feb 24, 2011 at 01:42:40 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

            •  Here is why your position makes no freakin sense (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:

              You are spinning all these scenarios about what Walker might have been thinking as an argument against what exactly?

              The Mayor and the Madison police chief are saying that they want to learn more about what Walker meant in making this statement.

              So, you can come up with scenarios where no nefarious was in play and many others can see this situation as an indication of bad intent.

              The Madison authorities are saying we need more investigation into the matter.

              So, exactly WTF are you complaining about?

    •  If you really think Walker DIDN'T think about it; (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      3goldens, Thanin

      then I have a bridge for you.....

      I also believe he noted that it was briefly discussed with his cabinet....

      •  He said that, yeah (0+ / 0-)

        Doesn't mean he wasn't just being polite to a financial backer, making him feel like his crazy ideas have merit.

        And as I pointed out in a comment above, "discussing it" could have meant some aid fresh out of college suggested the idea and was shot down by everyone else in the room.

        I don't care how horrible his politics are -- there are a number of plausible scenarios in which this could be meaningless.

        "Preventive war is a crime not easily committed by a country that retains any traces of democracy." -George Orwell

        by Zackpunk on Thu Feb 24, 2011 at 01:34:30 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Since we don't know either way... (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:

          why play this guessing game and not take walker at his word?  

          Besides, even if what you said was true, not sure how that helps the situation or what we could do about it here in the DK comment section.

    •  a fair defense that cannot work (0+ / 0-)

      because it still makes him seem like a puppeteer of the billionaire.  Yes, I thought he was trying to "be agreeable" however, he ADMITS to considering inciting violence.

    •  And why would he feel it... (0+ / 0-)

      ...was necessary to not knock the idea down if he thought it was awful? Well, the fact that he (thought he) was talking to one of his biggest donors probably had something to do with that.

  •  First amendment to the Constitution..... (11+ / 0-)

    "Congress shall make no law....abridging....the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

    Which is exactly what's happening in Madison. Exactly.

    Funny how the right wing folks are all adorers of the Constitution except when "the people" ain't them.

    BTW, so glad to see that that character who called for "live ammunition" to be used on the protesters was fired. Sir.....there are a some dictators in the Middle East right now who would be glad to welcome have you as a member of their team.

    Freedom has two enemies: Those who want to control everyone around them...and those who feel no need to control themselves.

    by Sirenus on Thu Feb 24, 2011 at 12:53:40 PM PST

    •  I'm sorry, was that the Second Amendment (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      mainely49, Sirenus

      you were citing?  The Tenth?

      Doncha know those are the only two that matter?  All the rest of 'em?  Just words.


      Give me your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free
      ¡Boycott Arizona!

      by litho on Thu Feb 24, 2011 at 12:58:03 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  If pro-corpoate spin was wool, MM could have (4+ / 0-)

    made every U S citizen a nice sweater in just 48 hours.

    Sad that i have to watch AJ English and comb websites to get a real idea about what's going on in 'Merica.

  •  The national media wants the DEMS/labor to lose. (10+ / 0-)

    That's just the simple fact IMO that is behind all of this; and they're shocked that the Democrats are not losing. If the DEMS win and Labor wins; then this will pump up the Democratic base and make it harder for them to have an exciting 2012.

    They get more money if the Republican fat cats invest heavily; they are determined to create the best bang for Republican dollars IMO.

  •  Don't forget the (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    PsychoSavannah, Mike08

    bribe (I mean trip) to Cali(fornia) after he's finished crushing the union

    "Now watch what you say or they'll be calling you a radical, a liberal, a fanatical criminal" -- Logical Song -- Rick Davies & Roger Hodgson

    by Over50Lib on Thu Feb 24, 2011 at 12:55:34 PM PST

  •  Now, now... (0+ / 0-)

    Don't blame our media.  They're busy focusing on how the Democrat senators may be recalled for not doing their jobs.

    "Self-respect is the keystone of democracy"

    by neverontheright on Thu Feb 24, 2011 at 12:58:49 PM PST

  •   and the floor gets scrubbed by the people (9+ / 0-)

    Walker is going against.

    Then, perhaps one of the most thrilling small details I’ve witnessed, the drum circle on the first floor decamps so other protestors can clean it. They have no mops. They have no brooms. Instead, they kneel with rags for a good 20 minutes at least, and though the marble floor never looked that dirty, their rags come away black with accumulated foot grime. I’m a little stunned at the sight. There they are, tenderly scrubbing the epicenter of what seems to be turning into a national showdown. A man says to me, “I wish Fox News would report on this.”

    From a nicely written piece about one woman's experience staying overnight in the Capitol.  Complete with a photo of the floor washing.

    I had posted this in another diary, but thought it appropriate here, too.  These are the people who Walker is going after.  The ones who clean up after themselves.  

    Get off twitter. Iranians are trying to use it.

    by sele on Thu Feb 24, 2011 at 12:59:12 PM PST

  •  Walker... (0+ / 0-) Koch.

  •  Scott Stonewall Walker will.........stonewall. (0+ / 0-)
  •  Thanks for a nice diary, this story needs (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Phil S 33, Mike08

    to be front and center to expose these thugs to the light of truth.

    "It took us a couple of days because I like to know what I'm talking about before I speak." President Barack Obama 3/24/09

    by sfcouple on Thu Feb 24, 2011 at 01:02:24 PM PST

  •  Someone here was speaking that the two (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    parties are not the same.

    organizing crews to clean up

    I don't see the thugs coming up with this idea.  I imagine them causing the mess and wondering where those "govmint freeloader" are to clean up the mess.

    Never confuse kindness and patience with stupidity and weakness!!

    by Joes Steven on Thu Feb 24, 2011 at 01:03:05 PM PST

  •  The U.S. grew strong with fairer taxes, and with (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    ... organized unions.

    Sure, management and owners had a harder time of it, but it became a dialogue between the two important forces in any value creating manufacturing: owners vs. workers.

    And together they grew the U.S. to become a world power.

    Then the owners and management got greedy, and decided they didn't need the workers. They turned them into shoppers by borrowing money from abroad (or printing it), and focused on counting their outrageous wealth, while wondering how they could destroy the government and public services.

    Now, the U.S. is a shaky world power, with an insane military, and a majority of the population realized it's been conned - three hats and a bean style.

    Walker's overreach is penetrating deep, and across party boundaries. People are understanding more of what's being done behind their backs, and that's a good thing.

    Walker got a task from his paymasters: destroy the unions before we come in and take over the attractive public services.

    And he's been found out.

    "If you don't use your majorities, you lose your majorities."

    by SteinL on Thu Feb 24, 2011 at 01:04:21 PM PST

  •  Milwaukee police head busters coming to Madison (7+ / 0-)

    It looks like Walker is getting his thugs.  The State Department of Administration requested the Milwaukee Police to send a "Major Incident Response Team" to guard the Capitol.  

    The demonstrations have been absolutely peaceful, even when the teabaggers showed up and tried to provoke fights.  We do not need this crew.  These guys are brutes and I think we can expect them to start something.  Remember the Madison police did not request this, the Governor's hired hands did.

    I hope I'm wrong about this, but this is a highly unusual move.

    Obama 2008 - Damn, I got fooled again!

    by Gareth G on Thu Feb 24, 2011 at 01:04:44 PM PST

    •  Preparing for the bill to pass (0+ / 0-)

      security has been increasing all week. National Guard are on the ready to take over the prisons.
      Preparing in the event of riots.

      •  There won't be any riots (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:

        unless police or agent provacateurs put one on themselves.  Republicans would love to see one but it won't happen.  These crowds of demonstrators aren't "Dirty Fucking Hippies" from the '60s, they are average working people, old people, the disabled, grade school kids...just plain folks.  I'm sorry but you aren't going to get your riot.

        Obama 2008 - Damn, I got fooled again!

        by Gareth G on Thu Feb 24, 2011 at 01:31:31 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Well, I'm one of those peaceful (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:

          protesters and yes, I know the tone. But when crowds gather for days, it's procedure to prepare....particularly if it's looking like the object of the protest is going to succeed. Unions are considering general strikes which automatically puts the state in preparedness mode.

          You are right, this is not the draft. But it's pretty standard expectation to prepare.

  •  I hope the media will keep after it (0+ / 0-)

    that's asking for an awful lot !

    big badda boom : GRB 080913

    by squarewheel on Thu Feb 24, 2011 at 01:06:41 PM PST

  •  Nat'l media more interested in disgruntled Libyans (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
  •  Glad that an official finally (3+ / 0-)

    pointed out how Walker values a political outcome over the safety of his citizens. Enough is enough.

  •  Send the mayor some love---give some positive thx (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Mike08, speak2me
  •  Very sad, but not new, of course (4+ / 0-)

    The Ohio National Guard and the Ohio State Highway Patrol were called to the Ohio State University campus during protests against the Viet Nam war AFTER gates to the university on a major thoroughfare were closed by demonstrators.  In the center of a photo on Time magazine's cover that documented the event was an undercover FBI agent leading the demonstrators and closing the gates to the university.  He appeared to be the primary person closing the gates which then invited all hell to break loose as the governor and the guard and the highway patrol all panicked leading to major disaster.  We know once again to be aware.

  •  Impeach. (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    liz dexic

    The fricking Governor of Wisconsin considered taking actions similar, in essence, to inciting a riot. Isn't that a crime? I got caught up so much yesterday in what, to me, was basically an Internet-driven sensationalist story that my feeble brain didn't even think about the real world complications and implications of this story. But after reading this diary, the audacity and mendacity of Walker’s statements hit me for the first time. And now I’m pretty much floored…but I still have enough of my faculties left to realize that Walker really should not be allowed to continue as Governor. He needs and deserves to be impeached.

  •  Is it just me, (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    scribeboy, LordMike, Virginia mom

    or would everyone here like to have been there to see Walker's face when he "discovered" that Koch wasn't Koch?

    He must have literally shit his pants.

    We need to show the prank caller some love.

    And check out this tasty paragraph form Yahoo news:

    The call, which surfaced Wednesday, also showed Walker's cozy relationship with two billionaire brothers who have poured millions of dollars into conservative political causes, including Walker's campaign last year.

    THAT is not being covered enough.

    Emo's Prayer - "Lord, please break the laws of the universe for my convenience" - Emo Philips

    by AlyoshaKaramazov on Thu Feb 24, 2011 at 01:20:00 PM PST

  •  the national media (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Virginia mom

    is a straight-up disgrace, and has been for years.

    In the sea, Biscayne, there prinks
    The young emerald evening star,
    Good light for drunkards, poets, widows,
    And ladies soon to be married.

    by looty on Thu Feb 24, 2011 at 01:30:41 PM PST

  •  Where is Obama (0+ / 0-)

    Can anyone explain why Obama seems to be sitting this out?

    •  Where is our Civil Rights Leaders? (0+ / 0-)

      They only person who's been out their fighting for the middle class is Jesse Jackson. Where is Al sharpton where are members of the King family?

    •  Obama wants to see which way this breaks (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      before commiting himself to anything.  People on the ground in Wisconsin aren't especially anxious to see him here anyway.  He's pretty much alienated his base, which is why the last election went to disasterously wrong.

      Obama 2008 - Damn, I got fooled again!

      by Gareth G on Thu Feb 24, 2011 at 01:41:54 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  good stuff...but why are national dems (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    LordMike, Noamjunior

    so hesitant to hit this softball?  

    I suspect it has to do with money...

    "Senator McCain offered up the oldest Washington stunt in the book - you pass the buck to a commission to study the problem." - Senator Obama, 9-16-2008

    by justmy2 on Thu Feb 24, 2011 at 01:45:41 PM PST

  •  Up a notch: I.M.P.E.A.C.H.M.E.N.T (0+ / 0-)

    I realize, with his fellow conspirators and the Koch Bros controlling the Legislature, that this is probably not happening. But, surely he's breaking some law(s). At the very least bringing Wisconsin into disrepute and disgracing his office.

    Does none of this rise to a level of impeachment? Can't the Dems at least file the charges? Make his co-conspirators defend him? Force hearings?

    Do we really want or need to wait a year or more to recall the guy? Letting him thumb his nose at Wisconsin and all working people?

    Shit happens. So when you flush thank a liberal.

    by BobBlueMass on Thu Feb 24, 2011 at 01:51:12 PM PST

  •  Hey... (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    it's the mayor from Chad Vader!!  :-)

  •  But it's cold in Madison. And they have snow. (0+ / 0-)

    We can't expect the national media to endure such hardship.

    The Republican motto: I've got mine. Screw you.

    by leu2500 on Thu Feb 24, 2011 at 06:37:46 PM PST

  •  What seems to be missing here (0+ / 0-)

    is the fact that this man should be prosecuted for conspiring to deprive these protesters of their civil rights, and putting them in physical danger. I understand that they ultimately decided against it, but the conspiracy process was present. Prosecute him.

    There are no profits in ensuring human rights so don't expect your government to do so.

    by The Green Nugget on Fri Feb 25, 2011 at 03:54:48 AM PST

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