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gay marriage

A  milestone is reached:

A new Washington Post/ABC News poll finds that a majority of Americans support marriage rights for gay couples.

According to the poll, 53% of respondents said that it should be legal for gay couples to marry. The majority support marks a double-digit shift from five years ago in the same poll, when 36% supported marriage equality.

Not surprisingly, the majority of Republicans/conservatives remain "strongly opposed" to equal rights, while:

Compared with five years ago ... Support has grown by 17 points among Democrats, but also by 13 points among independents, to a clear majority, 58 percent, in the crucial political center. And it's 63 percent among moderates, up 21 points.

And naturally, since the majority of Americans now support it, Republicans have begun their latest assault against gay marriage. But hey, if their base is against it, screw what everyone else thinks.

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Comment Preferences

  •  And don't look for any national legislation (9+ / 0-)

    to legalize same-sex marriage any time soon.  That wouldn't be bipartisan.

    •  Bi-partisan in Washington (4+ / 0-)

      means doing what the Republicans want.  So no, it will  not happen anytime soon.

      "We must hang together,...else, we shall most assuredly hang separately."

      by GreatDane on Fri Mar 18, 2011 at 11:08:32 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  This issue doesn't seem to fall on party lines (4+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        GenXangster, gneissgirl, lgmcp, Catsmeat

        rather idealogical ones. Liberals are for gay marriage, moderates don't care and tend to vote along party lines, conservatives are against it. So you get Blue Dogs voting against it and Libertarians voting for it. There actually is bipartisan support for it but not enough because of the Conservadems.

        The Weeping Orange Creeper (vulgarium boehnerii) is a Class B noxious weed weed and should be removed if possible.

        by ontheleftcoast on Fri Mar 18, 2011 at 11:15:34 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Unfortunately Same Poll Results in California (0+ / 0-)

          These same poll results were in California before the Prop. 8 won there handily.

          Which ushers in the old adage that you cannot take what people say in public as reflecting their true feelings when it comes to gay marraige.  For some reason people tend to agree with one another if they think it's correct, and then in the privacy of the booth vote what they're really thinking.

    •  Conservative Family Research Council Says Gay (0+ / 0-)

      Marriage Is as Bad as the Earthquake/Tsunami. Check this out from rude pundits web site:

      http://rudepundit.blogspot.com/...

      Sent via African Swallow carrying a coconut

      by ipaman on Fri Mar 18, 2011 at 11:26:23 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  This issue in a nutshell: (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      KathleenM1

      We've won. It's over, but in a way that is going to take a decade or two to fully play out.

      Our goal in the meantime should be to stick Republicans with the discriminatory worldview which they now espouse. Over time, their position will become more and more untenable to the American populace. Don't let them backslide on their discrimination. They will try over time to do so. When they do, make sure their attempts are pointed out as blatant political pandering. Because that's really what it will be.

      Try looking at things another way.

      by atheistben on Fri Mar 18, 2011 at 11:47:22 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  A clear majority of "real Americans" are (10+ / 0-)

    still against it, though.

    "Intolerance is something which belongs to the religions we have rejected." - J.J. Rousseau -6.38, -4.15

    by James Allen on Fri Mar 18, 2011 at 10:54:58 AM PDT

  •  Maggie Gallagher and her NOM gargoyles (14+ / 0-)

    can suck on this latest poll. Tony Perkins too. Congratulations America, you are finally seeing through all the bullshit thrown about by the nutcase evangalists.

  •  Maryland House of Delegates (9+ / 0-)

    .... take note.

    "Without viable unions to serve as a counterweight to corporate power, America's working people and their families are at the mercy of the largest and most powerful economic organizations on the planet."

    by billlaurelMD on Fri Mar 18, 2011 at 10:56:01 AM PDT

    •  They did. (5+ / 0-)

      And decided to throw their lot with the religious nuts right.

      •  I'm disappointed too, but (0+ / 0-)

        things have changed a lot in just one generation.  I look forward to the not so distant future, while also looking back at how different it was in the not so distant past.

        My Uncle Bob (my dad's brother) recently passed away at age 88.   My brother and I grew up knowing his 'room mate' as Uncle Pete.   Bob and Pete lived in the same apartment in the upper East Side of New York for well over 40 years.

        There was no discussion about whether or not they were gay.  I remember soon after I came out asking if they were gay, and my mom said she didn't know.  I got my answer later from Bob when I asked him, but that earlier conversation with my mom was kind of left to the side.

        When Pete died a number of years ago, we went to his service, and to a memorial at the apartment.  Of the 40 or so people who were at the memorial, the only women were Pete's sister, my mom and my brother's fiance.  The only people younger than 60 were my mom, myself, my brother and his fiance.

        Now, I knew a number of years ago that they were gay; however, they grew up in a much different time than I did.  Even though they lived in Manhattan, they weren't openly gay.

        In fact, I rmember Pete (who was a practicing Catholic who ushered at St. Patrick's Cathetral and was friends with Terrence Cardinal Cooke and  John Cardinal O'Connor) reacted with disapproval to gay pride events down, and with vitriol to groups like Act Up.

        I didn't come out to Uncle Bob until I was in my mid 20s, knowing how Pete reacted towards the gay rights movement in the 70s and the AIDS advocacy movement in the 80s.  I still had enough doubt in my mind then to wonder if they might accept me for being gay.  

        What I didn't realize was the culture that they grew up in (especially the culture Pete grew up in - he was 2nd generation catholic Polish-American), and how they had to reconcile their sexual orientation with the culture of the time.

        Bob and Pete forming a legal partnership would have been unthinkable back in the 1970s. After Pete's memorial, my mom turned to me and asked me if I remember asking her about Bob and Pete.  I said, of course I do.  She then said she hadn't really thought about Bob and Pete as a couple, and seeing that apartment full of older men opened her eyes.  

        I said to her that Bob would probably not be living there too much longer.  She said why not, and I responded that the apartment was rent controlled, and it was in Pete's name.  

        I was wrong about Bob not being able to stay there.  The leasing company allowed him to stay there, but a lack of any sort of legal partnership arrangement prevented Bob from benefitting from the rent control laws, and about a year later when he retired (at age 76), he moved away from the city.

        We are a couple of votes short of civil marriage in New York and Maryland.  However, think about that even five years ago, New York or Maryland would not have even considered legalizing civil marriage for same-sex couples.

        It's about time I changed my signature.

        by Khun David on Fri Mar 18, 2011 at 12:15:20 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  Coming Out (18+ / 0-)

    got us this far, and Coming Out as Married is the frosting on the cake.

    Lots of people who never used to flinch at "My partner, she says ..."  do still definitely flinch at "My wife says".   These people are for the most part perfectly okay with me loving who I love ... but it causes cognitive dissonance when I assert the legal status to which they know I have no real current right.  

    So that's how I know it's worth doing.  

    "The extinction of the human race will come from its inability to EMOTIONALLY comprehend the exponential function." -- Edward Teller

    by lgmcp on Fri Mar 18, 2011 at 10:56:23 AM PDT

    •  It is SO worth doing. (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      lgmcp, AUBoy2007, wyldraven, aggieric

      What I remain unsure of is whether or not the "flinch" is based on homophobia or religion-based semantics.

      •  Well, both, really (6+ / 0-)

        but I feel that in the long run I am doing them a favor by opening their eyes to the real lives of real people.   If they don't KNOW this affects me, their colleague, they never WILL care.  So it is my duty to make them uncomfortable for their own good!  And my own, of course.

        "The extinction of the human race will come from its inability to EMOTIONALLY comprehend the exponential function." -- Edward Teller

        by lgmcp on Fri Mar 18, 2011 at 11:05:27 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Yes, I agree, you are correct. (0+ / 0-)

          Where my mind goes is to the public policy "angle."  If "marriage" is a word of religious meaning...well...then I'm perfectly eager to remove the word from any and all material of public policy legislation on "domestic partnerships."  Make any gov't "involvement" in the recognition of personal unions COMPLETELY secular; that would suit me just fine. :)

          •  Sound theoretically, but terrible practically. (5+ / 0-)

            Already the hysteria is that marriage is devalued just by allowing me to use the term.  If well-intended changes were to ACTUALLY devalue it, for legal and civil purposes ... imagine how much MORE virulent and hysterical the opposition would be.

            No, changing the role of the "M" word for straight people ... would, and should, be far more controversial than allowing gay people to share it.  

            "The extinction of the human race will come from its inability to EMOTIONALLY comprehend the exponential function." -- Edward Teller

            by lgmcp on Fri Mar 18, 2011 at 11:15:04 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  I don't disagree... (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              lgmcp, Inspector Javert

              ...and I completely understand the political mine-field, and the assertion of impracticality.

              Still...I confess a burning desire to devalue the religious connotation; however [that] may be accomplished, again, suits me just fine.

            •  I've had the (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              lgmcp

              conversation with straight friends who argued what is so wrong with civil unions if they had the same legal force as civil marriage.  They fully support giving gay couples the same rights as straight couples, however they weren't quite happy calling it marriage.

              I responded why do we need both civil unions and civil marriage.  Isn't that the same thing as separate but equal.   Why don't we just change civil marriage laws by referring to them legally as civil unions and divorce the legal recognition from the religious recognition altogether.  How would they feel if their legal marriage were now called a civil union?

              Most of them (recognizing that almost all of my friends are politically moderate to liberal) felt that they wouldn't find that acceptable.  They are married in the eyes of the state and it should be called marriage, and they wouldn't accept it if the state decided to call their marriage a 'civil union'.

              It's about time I changed my signature.

              by Khun David on Fri Mar 18, 2011 at 12:27:43 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  Not to mention all the insurance policies (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                Khun David

                which would hardly be in a big hurry to amend THEIR corporate language to extend benefits to "unions".

                "The extinction of the human race will come from its inability to EMOTIONALLY comprehend the exponential function." -- Edward Teller

                by lgmcp on Fri Mar 18, 2011 at 12:34:21 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

              •  A perfect arguement for why (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                Khun David

                downgrading the status of the majority, is a horrible solution for bestowing equal status upon minorities.

                "The extinction of the human race will come from its inability to EMOTIONALLY comprehend the exponential function." -- Edward Teller

                by lgmcp on Fri Mar 18, 2011 at 04:40:47 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

    •  I'm looking forward (9+ / 0-)

      to being able to say, "my wife says..."

    •  A heartfelt thanks (5+ / 0-)

      to all of you who came out, especially in places or times when it was dangerous to do so.   I've seen what the closet did for my brother in a very conservative part of the country, and I've seen what the courage of y'all who came out has done for his acceptance of himself in recent years.  Coming out, loud and proud, is a selfless act and deserves thanks from all of us straights who love relatives and friends burned by prejudice and hate.

      •  Much appreciated. (4+ / 0-)

        The solidarity of people of good will, means so much.

        "The extinction of the human race will come from its inability to EMOTIONALLY comprehend the exponential function." -- Edward Teller

        by lgmcp on Fri Mar 18, 2011 at 11:17:03 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  A family's acceptance means one thing (5+ / 0-)

          a community's something else.  My brother lives in a tiny community in southern Utah but even there, with positive portrayals of gay people on TV and obviously gay/lesbian tourists, it's getting harder to hate.  Family members can accept and support, but it's far better for the culture to change - which is both cause and effect of people living openly.  The result?  Even some conservative Mormons in that little town use fewer gay slurs these days.  The hate is less - he feels it.

          •  I especially love that the adult children (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            ivorybill, Steveningen

            of the McCain and Bush familes are speaking out.  They cling (embarassingly) to the Republican traditions they were raised with, but STILL declare that marriage equality is fine.

            "The extinction of the human race will come from its inability to EMOTIONALLY comprehend the exponential function." -- Edward Teller

            by lgmcp on Fri Mar 18, 2011 at 11:38:15 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

    •  My husband... (6+ / 0-)

      ...it took me awhile to get used to saying that but it finally feels very natural. We are part of the California 18k club here.

      Funny story, the other day this guy that rides my commuter bus was sitting next to me and we were talking. He asks, what does your wife do? I said well he prefers husband actually and he is in medical equip sales. (crickets)

      Now the guy is my new best friend and is always asking things like 'so how do you guys divvy up the chores?' I have to wonder has this guy never met a gay person in his life? And he's fairly young so I'm a bit amazed at his naivety. heh

      Being gay is natural, hating gay is a lifestyle choice. - John Fugelsang

      by cooper888 on Fri Mar 18, 2011 at 11:34:12 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  A lot of people are *dying* to know (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        cooper888

        how gender roles are assigned/reassigned, in bed and out.  I suspect they are dimly aware that for the most part strict old-style butch-femme has changed and become a lot more flexible -- without going away altogether.   So they are itching to know:  HOW flexible?  They are concerned about the division of labor in their OWN private lives, and about the responsibility for initiating/responding to sexual advance, and they are just tremendously curious.   If they're brave enough to ask, in a non-assholish way, I don't nip them for it.

        "The extinction of the human race will come from its inability to EMOTIONALLY comprehend the exponential function." -- Edward Teller

        by lgmcp on Fri Mar 18, 2011 at 04:45:44 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  yeah, i just act like... (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          lgmcp

          ...its the most normal thing in the world. Same as it is for him and his wife.

          Oh... and agreed 100%!

          If they're brave enough to ask, in a non-assholish way, I don't nip them for it.

          Being gay is natural, hating gay is a lifestyle choice. - John Fugelsang

          by cooper888 on Fri Mar 18, 2011 at 07:58:59 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

    •  I was tentative, at first, in saying "my husband" (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      lgmcp, Darmok, Khun David, Steveningen

      here in the Netherlands, but nobody has ever blinked an eye at it, and now I use it whenever speaking to someone new.

    •  Ah, the power of the word "marriage." (5+ / 0-)

      Those that have it will stop at nothing to keep it for themselves, in order to forever hold over our heads our second class status.  Those that want it will settle for nothing less (even if we get everything under the law but that word) because of the social legitimacy it confers.  And I am one that will settle for nothing less.  See, I am boring, predictable, suburban DINK with two dogs and a picket fence that serves on community council.  Being ordinary, unremarkable and nondescript are all that I want anymore.  This from a guy who used to dance on top of a box in DC gay bars shirtless 20 years ago.  How things change...

      When do I get to vote on your marriage?

      by jarhead5536 on Fri Mar 18, 2011 at 11:41:52 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Yeah, I miss my red motorcycle (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        jarhead5536, Darmok

        and spiked haircut.  Now I have a chin-length bob and a sedan, like any other middle-aged lady with a professional job.  

        "The extinction of the human race will come from its inability to EMOTIONALLY comprehend the exponential function." -- Edward Teller

        by lgmcp on Fri Mar 18, 2011 at 11:52:41 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  It's worth doing for us (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Khun David, lgmcp

      I have to admit that it's mildly disconcerting for me to think about my partner as my "husband."  (In addition to the fact that we can't legally marry in our state).  

      The issue of what to call our "significant other" has been a hot topic for as long as I've been out - about 30 years now.  It would take a while of saying it out loud for me to get used to it and I'm not sure how I'd handle it in public.

      •  "Spouse" or "partner" (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Darmok

        do come more trippingly to the tongue, I admit.  I can't bring myself to force the point every time.  But when I do, I can't help but notice that it creates a little frisson of impact, almost every time.  I hope that does more good than bad  -- it seems it must.

        "The extinction of the human race will come from its inability to EMOTIONALLY comprehend the exponential function." -- Edward Teller

        by lgmcp on Fri Mar 18, 2011 at 12:36:57 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  I admit that I'm old-school (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          lgmcp

          In so many ways, but not making people uncomfortable is a deeply ingrained lesson from my parents.  Of course, they fully support SSM and I know that they would advocate bending the rule because there is a very good reason to do so.  

          So, I agree completely that using "husband" and "wife" instead of - or certainly in additional to - all of the other words we've used is moving our issue forward.  (I remember when same-sex use of "boyfriend" and "girlfriend" was the height of audacity but even then we knew that those were hopefully inadequate terms unless you were literally still dating).  I just hope that I can get with the program!

  •  It's only a matter of time, guys. (10+ / 0-)

    The RW is so on the wrong side of history on this one.

    It's here they got the range/ and the machinery for change/ and it's here they got the spiritual thirst. --Leonard Cohen

    by karmsy on Fri Mar 18, 2011 at 10:57:18 AM PDT

    •  That doesn't mean they will give in anytime soon. (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      AUBoy2007, karmsy, lgmcp, supercereal

      Remember their 3 "winning" issues:  God, Guns, Gays.

      "We must hang together,...else, we shall most assuredly hang separately."

      by GreatDane on Fri Mar 18, 2011 at 11:10:41 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  But ... but ... (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        karmsy, GreatDane, AUBoy2007

        How can this be?

        And naturally, since the majority of Americans now support it, Republicans have begun their latest assault against gay marriage.

        I thought Republicans looked upon their duty in Congress as representing the will of the American people!

        See, Sean Duffy said so yesterday!

        “I look at this congress—we are the voice of the American people ...” Rep. Sean Duffy, R-Wis., said.

        You ... you don't think they're ... hypocrites, do you?  

        Naaaaw.  It couldn't be ...  

        Weeellll ...?

    •  Two things surprise me about this (11+ / 0-)

      First, in terms of social movements, how quickly this transition has taken place.  Y'all have gone from almost no support a decade ago to majority support now.  Soon it will be 2/3 support.  And the day will come when this will all seem so routine, everyone will wonder what the fuss was about.   Love conquers fear - I'm just a little surprised at how quickly.

      The second thing that still surprises me: why on earth would anyone want to deny same sex couples the right to marry?  I fail to see any way that my relationship with my wife would be damaged if my sweet, kind neighbors make formal what has been a stable but informal relationship for years.  If people want to pair up and form stable, loving, committed relationships, how is this not a good thing?  How can anyone not see this as something to be celebrated, not feared?  Of course I know that the only basis for opposition is explicitly or implicitly religious.   But religious freedom means having the right to say no to same-sex marriage - for yourself not for everyone else.

      •  You are dealing with an authoritarian, (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        ivorybill, lgmcp, supercereal

        controlling mentality, one that presumes to say, "I can say  what is best for YOU."

        Proponents of this mentality, on this issue, will go down fighting, but go down, in the end, they will.

        It's here they got the range/ and the machinery for change/ and it's here they got the spiritual thirst. --Leonard Cohen

        by karmsy on Fri Mar 18, 2011 at 11:20:51 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Much evidence exists showing that marriage (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        ivorybill, karmsy

        confers health, economic, and child-rearing benefits.  Many of the arguments so favored of the right wing when bashing single motherhood ... are now working AGAINST them when judges come to weigh the societal interests of excluding certain persons from marriage for reasons only of animus.

        "The extinction of the human race will come from its inability to EMOTIONALLY comprehend the exponential function." -- Edward Teller

        by lgmcp on Fri Mar 18, 2011 at 11:34:22 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  They've already lost (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      karmsy, supercereal

      ... so long as the profit motive is more important than the Hippocratic Oath, we will never get to where we as a nation must ultimately go...


      Follow me on twitter:
      http://twitter.com/...

      by wyldraven on Fri Mar 18, 2011 at 11:11:16 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  When the only group against it (12+ / 0-)

    is older conservative whites, you know you're on the right track.

    LOVE these numbers. Love seeing so much progress in the hearts and minds of Americans in really, such a short time. In the late 80s, marriage equality wasn't even talked about except as a remote and mysterious fantasy... amazing.

    "I must stand with anybody that stands right, stand with him while he is right, and part with him when he goes wrong." - Abraham Lincoln

    by Word Alchemy on Fri Mar 18, 2011 at 10:57:50 AM PDT

  •  Good news! (7+ / 0-)

    It's truly heartening to see this.

    However, I look at those hopeful numbers, and can't help but wonder what the conservative machine will do to reverse them, just like it did to climate change opinions.

    Of course, there aren't any corporate interests opposing gay rights (that I know of), so maybe we'll have some progress, on this one issue.

    •  Good for business (0+ / 0-)

      Sure, it costs money to pay health insurance for same-sex partners/spouses, but when your skilled labor runs to a state that doesn't treat them as sub-human, your business suffers from the brain drain.

      From what I recall, one of the reasons employers were wary of welcoming women in to the workplace as equals was because of pregnancies costing money and taking women out of the workplace. In the case of gay men, you know you won't have to cover any pregnancy-related expenses, which makes benefits possibly cheaper. I expect even lesbian women are at least somewhat less-likely to get pregnant as well, opting for adoption in more cases than heterosexual couples.

  •  As a married person I can only say (5+ / 0-)

    if anyone is foolish enough to wish to get married they should absolutely be allowed to do so!

    Seriously, people marrying a member of the same sex, or opposite sex doesn't hurt anyone. It's an agreement between consenting adults that unfortunately has been singled out for having legal rights and protections regarding each other. Last time I checked in this country any two sane people of the age of majority could make agreements, contracts and get licenses for a multitude of purposes.

    That this is an issue just boggles me. The noise machines must pump furiously to get people to think stopping this is important.

    "The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it." -- George Bernard Shaw

    by Inspector Javert on Fri Mar 18, 2011 at 11:03:08 AM PDT

    •  'baggers' crazy-making nutsacks need two of 'em nt (0+ / 0-)

      Präsidentenelf-maßschach; Warning-Some Snark Above "Nous sommes un groupuscule" join the DAILY KOS UNIVERSITY "makes Beck U. and the Limbaugh Institute look like Romper Room"

      by annieli on Fri Mar 18, 2011 at 11:06:57 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  What really amuses and saddens me is how (9+ / 0-)

    many conservatives have no idea what "random sampling" entails. It's very common to hear people respond with, "well they didn't poll ME or anyone I know, so this poll might not even be representative of the nation!"

    Here's to our last drink of fossil fuels - may we vow to get off of this sauce. Shoo away the swarms of commuter planes...and find that train ticket we lost.

    by terra on Fri Mar 18, 2011 at 11:04:41 AM PDT

  •  I was always ambivalent about gay marriage but.... (5+ / 0-)

    hell, I will support it just to put a burr up the GOP's ass, lolol

  •  Not Gay Marriage.... Duh... (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    niemann, Loge, aggieric

    I support Equal Marriage.

    And with that, I would support polygamy or polyandry, too, so long as all the persons affected by the contract are equal signatories, not one marriage and then several sister-wives or brother-husbands.

    Marriage is basically a contract. We know why, to create kinship where none existed before in order to protect property, inheritance, and promised relationships.

    Calling it "gay" marriage makes it separate from the Marriage contract that already exists.

    All we gotta do is change a few words, deal with some nit-picky legistation text and then move forward.

    And let the churches, mosques and synagogues have their own marriage event separate from the civil marriage contract. If they want to bless or curse any civil marriage contract, let them.

    It's a contract. CONTRACT. Boy-boy, girl-girl, boy-girl or (taking a breath) boy-girl-boy-girl....

    Sheesh.

    Ugh. --UB.

  •  Very cool news (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    IndyRobin

    Thanks for posting this information! This is interesting and encouraging. Yay for pro-equality Americans!!!

    Have you asked your congress-people to support legislation that combats bullying?

    by Curiosity on Fri Mar 18, 2011 at 11:15:23 AM PDT

  •  It will trend more and more that way (5+ / 0-)

    as the old leave us and the young who accept equal rights for everyone are open to it.

    My mom who is a dem all her life, she is mid 80's, voted for Obama and all the dems last time but against gay marriage in CA.

    I tried with her but she is old school. She thinks they should have some rights but not that...I don't get how people think that way.

  •  SEE? (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    lgmcp, Greasy Grant, bythesea, Darmok

    This is what happens when you let teh queers on TEEE-VEEE!

    Shakes fist at Glee, Modern Family - Ellen

    I am not going to say "snark". Nope - ain't gonna do it.

    When will our consciences grow so tender that we will act to prevent human misery rather than avenge it? Eleanor Roosevelt

    by IndyRobin on Fri Mar 18, 2011 at 11:27:45 AM PDT

  •  This brought me to tears. I am expatriated (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    cooper888, lgmcp, AUBoy2007, Steveningen

    from my own country because my partner is European - met in the US while he was a student.  We are fortunate in that, unlike some, we can take refuge in Europe.  But we both await the day when we can return to the US.

  •  Actually (5+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    cooper888, lgmcp, AUBoy2007, bythesea, Darmok

    I think the demand for marriage equality would be a somewhat conservative position to take, wouldn't it? It would seem that people who are not trying to get married aren't really the "family values" type. Why should conservatives and "family values" voters prevent another close family from wearing matching sweaters on Xmas cards, Scrabble night, camping trips with dad and dad and grandpa, backyard bbq and organizing school talent shows, joining the PTA, etc.

    Some people are straight and don't wanna do any of that stuff. They'd die first. LOL Why stop a gay suburban couple from contributing to the bake sale softball fundraiser? Doesn't that contribute to "family values" more than a straight man living alone in the big city? You'd think. (shrug)

    "Warm smell of Moulitsas rising up in the air..." -seanwright

    by GenXangster on Fri Mar 18, 2011 at 11:32:28 AM PDT

  •  National stats (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    lgmcp

    like this one are actually meaningless.  State by state numbers are what will move legislation.  How many states combined house a majority of Americans?  Five, six at most?  (One of those being Texas, which will secede before it allows marriage equality.)  How many states if you polled them would oppose gay rights of any kind?  The thirteen states of the former Confederacy for starters, plus the Mountain West states, Plains states, and Arizona in the Southwest for sure.  Even if, and this is a big if, the House, where actual people are represented, were to make such a move, it would die in the Senate, where states - not people - are represented...

    When do I get to vote on your marriage?

    by jarhead5536 on Fri Mar 18, 2011 at 11:36:30 AM PDT

    •  Agree a legislative route to overturning DOMA (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      jarhead5536

      is a loonnnggg way out.    Even with the Bush wing of the Court, SCOTUS is still our best bet for the foreseeable future.

      I am nervous about Ginsberg's health, though.  I wish her only the best but still wish she would step down prior to 2012 ... just in case Obama doesn't pull it out (even though I think he will).

      "The extinction of the human race will come from its inability to EMOTIONALLY comprehend the exponential function." -- Edward Teller

      by lgmcp on Fri Mar 18, 2011 at 11:44:48 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Yep the SCOTUS (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        lgmcp

        is the easiest route to gain marriage rights on a nationwide basis.  They could make it happen in two ways over the next few years.

        1)  Prop 8 Case:  This case is the really important one in that if the Court chooses to uphold the original decision to invalidate Prop 8 they would likely be asserting a right to marry for gays and lesbians.  In other words they could possibly issue a very broad ruling that invalidates other state constitutional bans and state laws exluding gays from marrying.

        2) DOMA Cases: If the SCOTUS decided to invalidate DOMA then presumably the federal government would have to recognize legally married gay couples and the various states would have to recognize these marriages even if they don't perform them in their states.  This of course is because of full faith and credit clause of the Constitution.

        So it is nice to see the public move towards equal rights as it might influence the Supreme Court members to rule in favor of equal marriage.  The Court rarely gets ahead of public opinion.

  •  It's more about the word, not about the rights (0+ / 0-)

    Anyone that has followed the national discourse about "marriage" is aware that the majority of the nation is in favor of gays having the same rights as heterosexual marriages.

    I think the whole issue for republicans/conservatives comes down to identifying a union between two people as being called "marriage".  Yes, I know, that's really kind of silly, but there are a great many folks (mostly Christians) that believe the word "marriage" is between a man and a woman.  Obama is on record...on video...saying he also believes that.

    Rights?  Who seriously doesn't think that any two individuals who love each other and join in a bond with each other shouldn't realize the rights that any other two individuals have?  

  •  Once again (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    supercereal

    the GOP is totally out of line with the rest of us.  And guess who gets to drive the discussion?

    It's really almost like the rest of America doesn't exist.  You're a teabagger like 20% of Americans?  You'll be on the teevee and people will listen!  Whatever the GOP says gets heard, and no one else matters.

    "Mediocrity cannot know excellence." -- Sherlock Holmes

    by La Gitane on Fri Mar 18, 2011 at 12:33:24 PM PDT

  •  This is Wonderful News (0+ / 0-)

    Thank you for posting it on the front page.

    If you don't stand for something, you will go for anything. Visit Maat's Feather

    by shanikka on Fri Mar 18, 2011 at 01:30:37 PM PDT

  •  Damn (0+ / 0-)

    This means my parents are not 53% more likely to divorce, what with the threat of gays marrying becoming increasingly likely. Man, I don't want to be from a broken home.

    ...

    Then again... two Christmases! Sweet!

    Thanks, Shadowy Gay Agenda!

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