A pastor in NC lost his job for believing that hell is not eternal torment. Some people think they know everything there is to know about hell. I’ve decided they are all wrong and that hell is AZ. Or AZ is hell.
When Chad Holtz lost his old belief in hell, he also lost his job.
The pastor of a rural United Methodist church in North Carolina wrote a note on his Facebook page supporting a new book by Rob Bell, a prominent young evangelical pastor and critic of the traditional view of hell as a place of eternal torment for billions of damned souls.
Two days later, Holtz was told complaints from church members prompted his dismissal from Marrow's Chapel in Henderson.
"I think justice comes and judgment will happen, but I don't think that means an eternity of torment," Holtz said. "But I can understand why people in my church aren't ready to leave that behind. It's something I'm still grappling with myself."
http://news.yahoo.com/...
The debate started over Bell's new book "Love Wins". Bell is the pastor of the 10,000-member Mars Hill Bible Church in Grand Rapids, Mich.
He describes going to a Christian art show where one of the pieces featured a quote by Mohandas Gandhi. Someone attached a note saying: "Reality check: He's in hell."
"Gandhi's in hell? He is? And someone knows this for sure?" Bell asks in the video.
Really? Gandhi in hell?
Church members had also been unhappy with Internet posts about subjects like gay marriage and the mix of religion and patriotism, Holtz said, and the hell post was probably the last straw.
"So long as we believe there's a dividing point in eternity, we're going to think in terms of us and them," he said. "But when you believe God has saved everyone, the point is, you're saved. Live like it."
When knowledge, to our puny perception, lead us to believe we were the center of the whole universe, this perception had to inevitably crumble with Galileos invention of the telescope, which proved the sun was the center, (blasphemy at the time). Then, with each increasing magnification of observation, our position in the universe continued to shrink, proving we were but a speck in a large galaxy, adding with time several galaxies to the size of the universe, and then billions of galaxies, each with billions of stars, and in present knowledge and understanding that is only about 2 or 3 % of the universe as far as we can tell; I thought the concept of God would have to expand correspondingly. Silly me.
Telescopes pinpointed on a small dark spot in space discovered over ten thousand galaxies in that tiny area. When you know that there are more stars in the universe than exists in every grain of sand on every beach and every desert on our planet, it puts your own grandiosity in perspective. At least it does for me. When I saw the universe through the Hubble telescope, it changed how I thought about God. At that point I decided if there was a God, we don’t know that God or what that God could want if there is such a thing. I consider consigning a God that could create such a universe with our own image, ideas and concerns the ultimate of hubris and conceit. I decided one should just live as good a life as possible without concern over judgement or death. I mean really, who can know, so I laugh at petty disagreements within theologies about who is right about the nature, desire and plans of God. Especially in regards to heaven and hell, with each different viewpoint declaring they have the ultimate answer. I can play too. I have finally discovered where hell is. Hell is AZ. Or AZ is hell.
(for more on the size of the universe: Nova’s, Hunting the Edge of Space)
http://video.pbs.org/...
Most religions do not accept the old theological position of universalism, that everyone gets to go to heaven. That would deny them their only real purpose which is saving you so you can be allowed to go to heaven and not hell. Bell denies he’s a universalist. Most religions, countries and peoples in the world have some kind of hell in their literature and traditions. These hells vary as to how long you will be there and how much torture you can expect when you get there.
In many Christian churches, such as the Catholic Church, most Protestant churches (such as the Baptists, Episcopalians, etc.), and some Greek Orthodox churches,[26] Hell is taught as the final destiny of those who have not been found worthy after they have passed through the great white throne of judgment,[27][28] where they will be punished for sin and permanently separated from God after the general resurrection and last judgment. The nature of this judgment is inconsistent, with many Protestant churches teaching the saving comes from accepting Jesus Christ as their savior, while the Greek Orthodox and Catholic Churches teach that the judgment hinges on both faith and works. However, many Liberal Christians throughout Liberal Protestant, Anglican, Catholic and some Orthodox churches believe in Universal Reconciliation (see below) even though it might contradict the "official" teachings of their denomination.
Some Christian theologians of the early Church and some of the modern Church subscribe to the doctrines of Conditional Immortality. Conditional Immortality is the belief that the soul dies with the body and does not live again until the resurrection. This is the view held by Orthodox Jews and a few Christian sects, such as the Living Church of God, The Church of God
Universal Reconciliation is the belief that all human souls (and even Demons) will be eventually reconciled with God and admitted to Heaven. This view is held by some Unitarian-Universalists.[31
http://en.wikipedia.org/...
Who knew hell could be so complicated. And Dante’s Inferno didn’t help the discussion with graphic images of levels of torment for different classes of sin. People often act like this description is literal instead of conjectural. I guess some people want to see others tortured for all eternity for not believing as they do and like graphic descriptions of that torture. God forbid everyone should get to go to heaven. It should be a place reserved for certain people to the exclusion of those they don’t like. They get to decide who goes to hell. Not God. It amuses me that anyone can presume to speak with such certainty about something which is unascertainable.
Inferno (Italian for "Hell") is the first part of Dante Alighieri's 14th-century epic poem Divine Comedy. It is followed by Purgatorio and Paradiso. It is an allegory telling of the journey of Dante through what is largely the medieval concept of Hell, guided by the Roman poet Virgil. In the poem, Hell is depicted as nine circles of suffering located within the Earth.
http://en.wikipedia.org/...
So if hell exists and should look like a burning, hot place, I have decided it is AZ. Knowing that Arizona is hell explains so much. It is hot, dry and often depicted littered with the bleached bones of people and animals alike, inhospitable and unfriendly to life. And then there are our politics. I can see Pearce as Satan and Brewer and other political sycophants in the state as his evil minions. And living in this nightmare political hell the last couple years has certainly felt like eternal torment to me. Wow, I’m even convincing myself. The ultimate proof is that there are more places in AZ with hell in their names than any other state in the country.
The U.S. state of Arizona has more places with the word "Hell" in their names than any other state of the United States.[1] In 1994, the U.S. Geological Survey listed 60 such place names.[2] These include:
▪ two Hell's Gates,[1] one in Coronado National Forest[2]
▪ Hell's Hip Pocket in Maricopa County[2][1]
▪ Hell's Tank near to the Grand Canyon[2]
▪ four separate Hell Canyons,[1] three of which are in Yavapai County[2]
▪ five Hell's Half Acres[1], one near Payson[2]
▪ Hell's Half Acre Canyon[1]
▪ Hell Point[2]
▪ seven Hell's Holes, in Greenlee, Apache, Yavapai, Mohave, and Gila counties
▪ Hell Hole in Booger Canyon[2]
▪ Hell Hole Valley[1]
▪ two Hell's Hole Canyons[1]
▪ Hell's Hole Creek[1]
▪ Hellzapoppin' Creek[2]
▪ Helldive Spring[1]
▪ Hellgate Mountain[1]
▪ Hell's Hole Peak
Arizona has been associated with Hell since the 19th century. In 1860, Senator Benjamin Wade observed of Arizona that "[i]t is just like Hell — all it lacks is water and good society".[4][5]
One popular song, "Hell In Arizona", describes how the Devil was allotted Arizona, and populated it with several forms of unpleasant animals and plants.[2][6] The last verse reads:[6]
He fixed the heat at a hundred and 'leven,
And banished forever the moisture from heaven;
And remarked as he heard his furnaces roar
That the heat might reach five hundred more.
In comparison, Utah has only 46 such places, and California only 45.
http://en.wikipedia.org/...
Yep, Az is definitely hell.