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Shortly after Daily Kos transitioned into DK4, someone created a group called Youth Kos, and posted this first diary, Welcome to Youth Kos

I found Rainee's introduction inspiring:

So you might be wondering...what is Youth Kos about?

My hope is for it to be a gathering point for the youth on this site, and place where their specific issues may be discussed. Ideas and diaries on issues especially affecting young people should be the focus. Participants should try and develop plans of action in order to make sure the voice of today's youth is heard in this movement, and to help get young people involved in it. America's youth deserve a voice in politics and government...we deserve the ability to determine the future we will live in.

I, was excited at the idea, and along with 29 others, became a follower.

One of the limitations of Daily Kos has been its lack of outreach to young people. I worked in a high school and even though many of my students were intelligent and articulate, I couldn't imagine them gravitating to Daily Kos. I'm sure that if any of them had given it a look, they would have concluded that Daily Kos was a place for old people who wouldn't have any interest in what they had to say.

When Raineee created Youth Kos, I thought it was wonderful. I thought, now I'll have a place to invite my former students (now my friends on Facebook) to come and make a difference in a national forum. My 19 year old nephew likes to discuss social issues with me; I thought I might be able to draw him in.

I thought about the 26 year old man that we met at the One Nation Rally back in October who was determined to get involved politically. I still correspond with him, and I thought he would want to participate.

Two weeks ago, I saw a diary by a recent high school graduate, The State of Public Education from a Student's Perspective by thePhoenix13. I told him I thought it was a great diary and that he should republish it on Youth Kos. He asked how to do that, I gave him the group url. I also sent a message to the Youth Kos group editors as well as some of the individual editors to tell them that it would be a good idea to republish it.

There was no response. There have been no diaries on Youth Kos since the first one. The inspiring Camelot that was Youth Kos has fallen into a black hole.

I am a strong believer that getting people of like interests together creates a powerful synergy. Since that diary, I have seen several others that would be wonderful additions if Youth Kos was to ever come to life.

I suppose another group could be created to accomplish the same thing, but since it's already been set up and has editors and followers and all, that would be a little, well, sloppy. Besides,

Youth Kos is such a perfect name!  Youth encompasses mature teenagers and adults in their twenties, people who are dealing with getting into college or paying off their college loans. Youth are the ones who feel like their voices are never heard, and like they are never going to live to collect Social Security.

And Kos is... well, Kos. Perfect.

So if we have to give up on the group, Youth Kos,  what other name could encompass the same ideas.

And whether another group is created or Youth Kos comes back to life, what can be done to reach out to young people?

Originally posted to JamieG from Md on Tue Mar 29, 2011 at 08:29 PM PDT.

Also republished by oo and Community Spotlight.

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Comment Preferences

  •  One thing that can be done to reach out to (31+ / 0-)

    youths is to stop treating us like our opinions are worth half that of an older person because of our age. Even if our opinions are worth less (which they aren't), our votes are still worth one vote. I hear so many people brush off college students as "going through a liberal phase" or it's assumed "they heard that on TV," or another catchy "common knowledge" bit to try to brush off the youth vote. The one that ticked me off the most was hearing Republicans not much out of their 20s say "the young vote doesn't count because they jumped on the Obama fad, just like everything else." Grr.

    My barometer says we're at Hell and dropping.

    by weatherdude on Tue Mar 29, 2011 at 08:58:18 PM PDT

  •  So can us gray-hairs comment? (14+ / 0-)

    I'd love to read diaries from young people. God knows we need them to take over the nation, and do a better job than my generation did.  (it all seemed so simple in the 60's).

    But I wanna make comments.  Not "get off my lawn". More like "dude.  Go for it. Run for office.  Get published. ".

    Frankly, I blame everything on Nixon.

    by J Orygun on Tue Mar 29, 2011 at 10:17:31 PM PDT

  •  in old dk (5+ / 0-)

    there was a diary series for "kossacks under 30"

    but some of those folks are probably a bit older now ;-)

  •  I asked one of The Viper Girls about this diary. (7+ / 0-)

    Jesse said: nobody young is going to come to dKos. It is controlled by a bunch of stodgy old white men who could not tolerate our opinions or our way of expressing ourselves.

    I provide that opinion for your information. And my girl is political and does think deeply about things.

    I used to be Snow White. And then I drifted. - Mae West

    by CherryTheTart on Wed Mar 30, 2011 at 03:52:22 AM PDT

    •  I hope you can convince her (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      that her opinions and way of expressing herself would be not just tolerated but welcomed.

      Ask her to give it a chance and do one sample diary to see what kind of input she gets.

      And if she does, please make sure that everyone here knows about it so we can rec it!

      Shop Liberally this holiday season at Kos Katalog

      by JamieG from Md on Wed Mar 30, 2011 at 09:57:06 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I have been trying to interest her in dKos (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        JamieG from Md

        . . . for awhile now. I will show her this conversation. We shall see what she says.

        I wish she would contribute here. Jesse has a lot to offer.  

        But she hears about my struggles here, my diary Eric Cantor Mon Amour, being a case in point. It is too violent, doncha know.

        There are a lot of self righteous humorless people here. And they used to be in charge of everyone's behavior. So they are arrogant. And my girl, while she is angry and very smart, is quite tender too.

        So I am not at all sure, speaking as a Mother, that my ambition to have her participate is entirely a good idea.

        I used to be Snow White. And then I drifted. - Mae West

        by CherryTheTart on Wed Mar 30, 2011 at 11:52:31 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  Restrictive culture is restrictive. (5+ / 0-)

      When I write here, I self censor a huge amount.  I do not feel comfortable expressing myself the way I would elsewhere on the net posting publicly or chatting with my friends.  And no, I don't feel particularly welcome.  I just don't feel like going away unless I get banned.  So, nyah.

      I enjoy the level of discourse here.  I understand that to a certain extent, that level is maintained by both restrictive posting and cultural rules.  These rules are not the "norm" elsewhere.  And elsewhere is exactly where I, and most people younger than myself, spend most of our time on the net.  From my perspective, visiting DKOS is much like going to Singapore.  I enjoy traveling, and the sidewalks here are VERY clean, but I must remind myself that the rules have changed and spitting out my gum is srs bsns.

      "Those who profess to favor freedom, and yet depreciate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground." - Fredrick Douglass

      by Strange New World on Wed Mar 30, 2011 at 11:27:28 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Brilliant analogy here. (2+ / 0-)
         From my perspective, visiting DKOS is much like going to Singapore.  I enjoy traveling, and the sidewalks here are VERY clean, but I must remind myself that the rules have changed and spitting out my gum is srs bsns.

        Excellent writing. Looks like dKos's loss.

        I used to be Snow White. And then I drifted. - Mae West

        by CherryTheTart on Wed Mar 30, 2011 at 11:54:30 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Don't you think (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:

          it's possible that DKos might be able to regain that if there is a movement within it to welcome this kind of writing?

          Shop Liberally this holiday season at Kos Katalog

          by JamieG from Md on Wed Mar 30, 2011 at 12:43:44 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Yes, I do think it is possible. Maybe. (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            JamieG from Md

            I guess it would be more truthful to say I think it would be a good idea to form such a group.

            I think this is a good place. I do think there are people here who would make it a difficult undertaking.

            I think also that you have the temperament and skills to make it happen, if anyone can. And I, while I may have some skills that would help, do not have the temperament needed.

            I am bipolar. On a bad day, there are people here I would cuss to kingdom come.

            I used to be Snow White. And then I drifted. - Mae West

            by CherryTheTart on Wed Mar 30, 2011 at 12:57:37 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

      •  Can you expound on that a little? (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:

        Is it a restriction of ideas or of language?

        I've noticed that my former students whom I've friended on facebook sometimes use language that they never would have used in my presence when I interacted with them in a school setting. The language sometimes makes me wince, but I realize that I'm on their turf and I appreciate that I can still be connected with them.

        Shop Liberally this holiday season at Kos Katalog

        by JamieG from Md on Wed Mar 30, 2011 at 12:53:15 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  You asked, so I will tell you. (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          JamieG from Md, denig

          But first, this grain of salt.  I understand that the rules and culture here are what they are.  I am in someone else's living room here, and am not complaining because they have their own standards.  A question was asked, and this is my, albeit long-winded, answer:

          I'm not talking about foul language.  I'm talking about memetic language.  The same things get said all over the internet, DKOS exceptionalism aside, and the same meme is often appropriate every time you encounter those ideas. And no, the non-memetic form does not convey entirely the same meaning.  For instance " X? In your Y?  It's more likely than you think!" is not usually "I believe you may be unaware of the X in your Y and the problems it may be creating." but it can mean that . . . or "Yes, duh, there is X in Y" or "There is hella X in Y all of a sudden".  Maybe I spend to much time hanging out with other technophiles, but most of my friends use that sort of idiom face to face as well as on the net.  Why spend time reassuring someone that something really is just that simple when you can say "Push button, receive bacon." and be both understood and believed?  Think it sounds too silly for a political discussion?  Fine, but it won't keep people who express themselves in that form from voting.  Refusing to take them seriously, may, however, lose your candidate those votes.

          Beyond words, if I'm not supposed to post image macros (because they take sooooo long to load!), there are things I can't say, because detailing the intersection of several ideas, a pop culture reference, and the history of using all that together in a particular way is time consuming and causes digression for both writer and reader.  Not only that, but if I want to tell someone that they are spewing redundant talking points originally crafted by the right wing, why waste time writing when I've got this Boston Terrier saying "Herp-A-Derp" already loaded on Photobucket?  There's a whole internet full of trolls to slay, and I'm only one person!

          Does DKOS even have a Photoshoop group?  I know there's the pootie diaries and some great straight up photo diaries (especially from Wisconsin), but those are mostly sauced from the cheezburger folks or pics uploaded by users.  There's been some good art generated here, like the GOPasaurus, but the comments do not contain the lively visual debate I'm used to in a couple of other forums.

          Oh, and if it's linked from the diary?  That counts.  I am so tired of people that tear diarists apart for not including "important" information when in reality they mentioned that you could find out more about X by following Y link.  The future is awesome precisely because you don't have to go to the library to read the original.

          I apologize for the length of the rant and its periphrastic nature.  As I said before, I actually don't mind the standard DKOS format.  It's my choice to hang out here and play by their rules.  If I dont' like it, I can go somewhere else.  I am not their target demographic.  Meh, whatever.  It's not like I paid for the account.

          "Those who profess to favor freedom, and yet depreciate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground." - Fredrick Douglass

          by Strange New World on Wed Mar 30, 2011 at 02:35:40 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  There is a Photography Group! (2+ / 0-)

            Photography group page and diaries

            " This is a group for photographers, photography geeks, diaries of original photography, or those just interested in looking at original photo diaries and maybe learning a bit about the process. "

            I guess teaching children isn't quite as much work as, say, sucking on cigars and yapping into a microphone. ~APA Guy

            by denig on Wed Mar 30, 2011 at 04:19:44 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Thanks! (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:

              You made my point!  There IS a photography group, which I am now following (more thanks!). It does not appear to be producing anything like this.  That makes me sad.  I like DKOS.  There are so many short, pithy things users have said here that deserve to be attached to just the right picture and sent out into the wider internet.

              "Those who profess to favor freedom, and yet depreciate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground." - Fredrick Douglass

              by Strange New World on Wed Mar 30, 2011 at 05:30:34 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  Those were great! (0+ / 0-)

                Thanks for the link.

                They don't appear to be. But wouldn't they fit into that group?  They might be real interested in it.  I know I would be.

                I guess teaching children isn't quite as much work as, say, sucking on cigars and yapping into a microphone. ~APA Guy

                by denig on Wed Mar 30, 2011 at 06:18:03 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

  •  it is crucial (7+ / 0-)

    to engage young people in the political process.  MattfromVermont's diary shows clearly the Republican efforts to disenfranchise young voters this year.  

    Whether it's through DK or some other forum, we need to pay attention to this crucial constituency.  They'll be living with the decisions made by our government a lot longer than I will.

    There is no snooze button on a cat who wants breakfast.

    by puzzled on Wed Mar 30, 2011 at 08:22:48 AM PDT

  •  Long form blogging is irrelevant to some. (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    goinsouth, mconvente, JamieG from Md

    They may be active politically, and willing to participate, but the world they interact in consists mainly of 140 characters, status updates, and the Like button.

    "To pass these defendants a poisoned chalice is to put it to our own lips as well." Justice Robert Jackson, Chief Prosecutor, Nuremberg.

    by Wayward Son on Wed Mar 30, 2011 at 08:31:46 AM PDT

    •  As a 78 year old grandmother with 4 (4+ / 0-)

      grandkids ranging for 35 to 9 years old I can tell you straight up. They would no more consider coming to DK4 to post than they would vote for Sara Plain.

       Why? because it is political and not relevant, absolutely NOT.  This generation of youth are more politically aware than any I have ever known.

      Why then?  because it is incredibly visually BORING and therefore irrelevant to them.

      Maybe of the squiggles talked or danced or something, or had a musical sound track, well, maybe. But guys, and it is mostly guys obviously who designed the look of this site and it useage, you obviously are NOT trying to attract the youth, so they will not come.

      Sorry, but it has driven a lot of us grandparents to learn Facebook and Twitter!!!!

      I still have not figured out exactly who and what demographic this site is trying to attract frankly.

      •  Just not true. (11+ / 0-)

        I'm 19 and I've been reading for years, and I know I'm not alone.  We're out here, I think we're hesitant to contribute in comparison to others, but we have ideas that we want to share and I think dKos is a great platform for progressive youth to be involved.  Nothing about dKos prevent young people from engaging.

        I'm really interested in seeing a thriving Youth Kos or Student Kos blog to allow us to have a robust student voice in the conversation here on Kos

        •  Why do you think young people are hesitant? (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Actbriniel, soccergrandmom

          Shop Liberally this holiday season at Kos Katalog

          by JamieG from Md on Wed Mar 30, 2011 at 09:13:23 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  A handful of reasons: (10+ / 0-)

            1) Politically savvy young people have been told to avoid social media if they ever want to run for office.  I think that is a stupid conclusion, social media has become part of life and not participating out of fears about what it could mean for your future seems totally foolish.  Politicians were always giving speeches while in college, writing op-ed's in their school newspapers, etc.  But this is an idea that is pushed by a lot of people, and I know people who abstain from participating for this reason

            2) Young progressives and democrats seeing things through a fundamentally different lens than many of the people do on this site, and I think while it doesn't turn people off, it makes younger visitors feel more distanced from this dialogue.

            For example, frequently the battles of the 60's and 70's come up in discussing modern issues, and it turns younger progressives off.  It's not because we are not interested in a sense of history - we absolutely are, and I think it is really central to understanding the progressive movement today.

            But I'm 19 years old.  The progressive movement is a different reality for me.  I never lived before Reagan and I barely remember the Clinton presidency.  I believe that I am as committed to the progressive cause as the people who came before me are - but the issue is that in order to enact a progressive agenda, I think we have to find new ways to reach out, new arguments to propel, and new faces to lead the movement.  Instead, progressives online seem to retreat towards the past, and that's just a more difficult conversation for younger Dems to be involved in.

            3) Younger people trust individuals for new more than they do organizations.  I know very few people my age who are sworn viewers of one cable news network, but I know a hell of a lot who trust whatever Rachel Maddow or Anderson Cooper says.  Daily Kos is a much different profile than that, and a lot of people who I've tried to get to blog, think they are writing something for no audience.  The reality is that especially on dK4, there are a lot of tools to promote your material, and build your own brand, and I think people respond to that.  But in general, the group blog format seems foreign to people my age - maybe its because we all grew up having our own Xanga or Blogspot accounts?  

            •  You raise some good points. (4+ / 0-)

              I'm 25, and I have been reading this blog since I was 18, but I know I am an outlier.

              But I'm 19 years old.  The progressive movement is a different reality for me.  I never lived before Reagan and I barely remember the Clinton presidency.

              This is huge for me as well.  There's a large disconect especially when older users rehash battles and draw support from the early 90s and earlier.

              One should no more deplore homosexuality than left-handedness. ~Towards a Quaker View of Sex, 1964 (Proud left-handed queer here!)

              by AUBoy2007 on Wed Mar 30, 2011 at 11:00:52 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  Absolutely (5+ / 0-)

                There are young progressives who are serious about winning the arguments of the day and advancing a real progressive agenda.  But when it comes to building a new coalition to tackle these issues, dKos doesn't always seem like the best place, because sometimes members are too interested in relitigating the issues of the past rather than re-inventing a new way further.

                I think another important distinction is that older members are much quicker to make association with the Republican party to organizations like the KKK, especially because of the politics of the Civil Rights Acts of the 1960's.

                I think younger Democrats view the Republican party differently.  We all despise the willingness of some politicians to play off xenophobia and limit the rights of others who may not look or act like them.  But it is the economic views of the Republican party that are at the core of a policy agenda that has fundamentally eroded equality and suppressed the political rights of Americans across the country

            •  told by who? and why? (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              JamieG from Md, CherryTheTart

              even an ancient crone like me knows that if i want to 'sell' my ideas through my books and work I have to use social networking.

        •  the fact that there is no or (4+ / 0-)

          negligible student presence at dkos is what is so telling/disturbing to me.

          given how vital student activism has always been in progressive movements, finding a way to accommodate those connections would strike as one of the more obvious tactics a place like dk might want to pursue.

          is there no student activism group?

          Words can sometimes, in moments of grace, attain the quality of deeds. --Elie Wiesel

          by a gilas girl on Wed Mar 30, 2011 at 09:45:27 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  You'd think there would be. n/t (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            JamieG from Md

            One should no more deplore homosexuality than left-handedness. ~Towards a Quaker View of Sex, 1964 (Proud left-handed queer here!)

            by AUBoy2007 on Wed Mar 30, 2011 at 11:01:29 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

              •  Why what? (0+ / 0-)

                Why would there be a student group?

                For the reasons a gilas girl mentioned.  Student activism is a part of progressive movements.

                There are student political groups.  It shouldn't be hard to impove their presence here.

                One should no more deplore homosexuality than left-handedness. ~Towards a Quaker View of Sex, 1964 (Proud left-handed queer here!)

                by AUBoy2007 on Wed Mar 30, 2011 at 11:17:14 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  well where are they at DK4, that specifically (2+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  JamieG from Md, CherryTheTart

                  is being queried here today, not if there should be student activism groups per se.

                  Those of us who WERE student activists in the 60's and 70's are well aware of the importance we had back in the dark ages for re-framing society as a whole.

                  If you don't protest when you are young when will you?  and if you are not willing to be held accountable for your opinions then you are the absolute stereotype of a corrupted politician.

                  I believe this diary and debate is about WHY they are not active at Daily Kos 4.

                  I recall clearly in DK 3 there were quite a few very outspoken, articulate and vocal posters and users.

                  •  I don't disagree with you. (2+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    Tchrldy, JamieG from Md

                    My initial comment was merely surprise that there wasn't any type of student group.

                    One should no more deplore homosexuality than left-handedness. ~Towards a Quaker View of Sex, 1964 (Proud left-handed queer here!)

                    by AUBoy2007 on Wed Mar 30, 2011 at 11:32:20 AM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  I agree with you. That is what I personally am (2+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      JamieG from Md, CherryTheTart

                      interested in knowing too. What is DK4 not doing that is failing specifically to attract youth student activists?

                      Is it peer pressure, or visual appearance, or relevance, or fear of standing out and speaking up?

                      Because old farts ask why doesn't mean they are criticising. Well, I only speak for myself and I ask why all the time. I think the only stupid question is one that isn't asked!!


                      •  about groups (1+ / 0-)
                        Recommended by:
                        JamieG from Md

                        i'm very seriously under informed on this topic, but from what I can gather, the "groups" function seems to be a purely self-starting mechanism, it lies there available but dormant to anyone who should choose to use it.

                        my guess is that most student activists are pretty busy being active in the realms outside of dk and don't have the desire or the where with all to invest the time and effort into starting one of those groups. we probably don't offer them much, which is kind of an eye-opening realization for us, it seems to me.   Although, maybe we could recruit a couple to come and let us know.

                        Words can sometimes, in moments of grace, attain the quality of deeds. --Elie Wiesel

                        by a gilas girl on Wed Mar 30, 2011 at 11:58:21 AM PDT

                        [ Parent ]

                        •  I am the last person to be talking about (3+ / 0-)

                          the basic organisational structure of the new DK4 which is to persuade people to form groups of like-minded people, administer them and basically function as self publishers.  You have to be invited in and find the entire format sophomoric and judgemental.

                          Some love the format, some hate it.

                          I hate it. I hate it because basically I am still a rebel, am not a follower or a joiner and hate to be segregated and separated, and herded like sheep into fenced in pastures..  But that is me. Don't fence me in!

                          But I would hazard a guess that it is not a format that would appeal to actual young people.

                          The format of DK3 worked just fine for my needs, and i was fully capable of finding groups of like minded people with interests that interest me by commenting in some of the specialised sub blogs that published under the banner of DKos, such as the Gardening Blog, Black Kos etc.

                          But like i said. I only speak for myself.

                          •  i don't think it goes quite so far as (2+ / 0-)

                            to "persuade" people to do anything (the organizational structure that is).  My sense is that it is much more benign, that is that it requires more than a little action and energy on the part of those who want to use it.

                            I don't use the groups function much at all, expect to have created my own personal blog, so I can separate things I write according to my own categories.  That means I can't really speak to what the structure "does", beyond observing that it "enables" options should folks choose to utilize them.

                            I was never a great fan of DK3 and cut down on my participation at the site because of the things I saw that that organizational structure gave rise to.  The few changes that dk4 brought that mitigate against some of the dk3 problems I do value, the others are relatively benign to me and haven't changed much of anything in terms of my own experiences in and of the site.  Except of course for all the bugs, and in that regard I have faith that fixing them is just a matter of time.

                            Words can sometimes, in moments of grace, attain the quality of deeds. --Elie Wiesel

                            by a gilas girl on Wed Mar 30, 2011 at 01:17:12 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  well, that pretty much sums up my own use as well (2+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            JamieG from Md, a gilas girl

                            I use what suits my own purpose and needs and ignore the rest. I am sure eventually many of the bugs will be crushed!

                            and the current structure makes it a lot easier to cross the cyber street when you see people you don't want to engage with coming! LOL.

                      •  I didn't see the youth presence (0+ / 0-)

                        on DK3. Not saying it wasn't there, I just didn't see it.

                        Shop Liberally this holiday season at Kos Katalog

                        by JamieG from Md on Wed Mar 30, 2011 at 01:06:06 PM PDT

                        [ Parent ]

        •  then where is your group to attract other young (0+ / 0-)


        •  I mostly agree (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          JamieG from Md

          I think there are more of us out there, and I also think dKos is a good place for us. However, I knew one person in high school who was as into politics as I was. Since I've come to college, especially since I'm at a liberal arts college, I have been surrounded by many more politically active people. Just the same, I can only think of a couple that would want to take the time to write a diary or participate in a comment discussion here or on any political site.

          Why this is I have no idea. I think there's a good chance that those kids who are really into politics decide to do physically active things like go to protests or campaign as opposed to sit down and write. That's just speculation though.

          •  On the other hand... (0+ / 0-)

            I'm in my 50s, and I don't know that many people my age that would want to take the time to write a diary or participate in a comment discussion here or on any political site. At least, not people that I've met in person.

            I think we're a rare breed at any age.

            Shop Liberally this holiday season at Kos Katalog

            by JamieG from Md on Wed Mar 30, 2011 at 03:14:59 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

      •  Interesting observation (0+ / 0-)

        Shop Liberally this holiday season at Kos Katalog

        by JamieG from Md on Wed Mar 30, 2011 at 09:09:54 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Chat channel and photo updates (3+ / 0-)

        I think young people enjoy posting photos in a Facebook style stream of updates and blurbs from their phones. DK4 allows us to link to any pictures, but that's probably one level of complexity too much for most people.  

        Another thing young people like to do more is just chat. Maybe there could be a chat channel for that. The whole thing about "3 paragraph diary with intorduction", etc, etc, probably feel like an essay question on a test for young people.

        Maybe some kind of chat channel where you could post comments or post pictures. Also- let's not fool ourselves here- it has to be kind of subversive and noxious in a way that would drive out old farts like ourselves.  Let's face it- kids who gravitate to the liberal side of the spectrum, are more often than not, on the subversive or 'alt' side.They need to be able to personalize their space to suit their lifestyles.

        •  I was not aware of that. (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Strange New World
          DK4 allows us to link to any pictures

          I thought it retained the limitation on embedded photos being hosted at specific sites, because the original limitation was put in place not for a technical reason, but to avoid exposing DKos to hotlink issues.

          "To pass these defendants a poisoned chalice is to put it to our own lips as well." Justice Robert Jackson, Chief Prosecutor, Nuremberg.

          by Wayward Son on Wed Mar 30, 2011 at 11:44:16 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  You might be right. (0+ / 0-)

            I thought they got rid of that restriction... but if so that makes my point even stronger. It's just too much of a hassle to have to load your picture to a specific site and then come back to DKos to post it.

            •  Most of the big picture sites are approved (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              JamieG from Md

              for dKos posting (& if there's one missing, it can be added).

              •  Understood. But it is still more (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                JamieG from Md

                convenient if people could just upload directly onto Kos. Nowadays DKos is a lot more fragmented. A lot of post/diaries will only see a few hundred or a few thousand eyeballs. This is especially true for the more personal type of KosBook type of updates that we are talking about here.

                Also- since this type of updates are transient in nature, you could even make it such that any photos uploaded to the chat/KosBook channel will be deleted after 30 days to free up space for more pics. Or limit each person to 10 pictures at a time. If you upload a new pic your oldest pic will drop off. That might work.

              •  Which is great except (0+ / 0-)

                that I have my own hosting for all my stuff.  Anybody can for about $10 a month.  I pay for my domain name and hosting for other reasons, but it's very convenient to dump every image macro I've ever seen and liked on there.  If I want to use one of those images here (and break the comment clutter taboo!) I have to reload it to an approved site.  More and more services these days are offering some form of online data storage as a perk, encouraging people to store and access their data remotely instead of storing it on their desktop systems.  So the potential number of people who would like to link images they stored from uniquely named locations is growing steadily.  The approved list does not seem to be growing at anything close to the same rate.

                "Those who profess to favor freedom, and yet depreciate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground." - Fredrick Douglass

                by Strange New World on Wed Mar 30, 2011 at 03:01:05 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  I bet very few people have bothered to ask. (0+ / 0-)

                  More recent users haven't seemed to have the same 'it's our place, let's fix it" attitude as once upon a time. (When we tied onions to our belts, of course).

                  But one of the points of linking from approved sites is to limit the sorts of weirdness that come along with that growing # of individual locations.

      •  About the "visually boring" argument ... (0+ / 0-)

        Generally, intelligent political discourse is talk, or text, and not really suited to visually stimulating showy websites.  Those who rely on visual imagery to be persuaded are especially vulnerable to images or symbolism that deliberately serves to manipulate or distort the actual political aims (think Republican authoritarians wrapping themselves in the American flag, or the catchy Luntzian two word "Death Panels" and the effect that those words had on the health care debate).  If what soccergandmom is saying that we need talking squiggles or dancing icons to engage young people in political discourse, then we are all doomed because genuine political discourse is reliant on the strength of the thoughts themselves, not on the packaging.  Not to flirt with Godwin, but the Nazi regime was masterful at packaging the trappings of entertainment and imagery, the torchlight parades, the appeals to German nationalism, the uniformed presence of authority within the Party, in order to manipulate a population that was tired of thinking for themselves into trusting in a repellant political philosophy.  If the discourse is reduced to a reliance on the glittery, shiny things in order to produce engagement, we have the example of the Obama campaign in 2008 that had an appeal to young people with videos, Twitters, Email and a host of techniques designed to briefly engage young people, most of who failed to vote in the 2010 mid-terms leaving the country in the unenviable position that we see it today.  Politics is work, not the eye candy and transparently banal engagement that seems to be the norm on youth social media (it is kind of like the notes passed in class in grammar school are now electronically posted for all to see) and if our political discourse has to emulate that same transparent banality to engage young people, what's the point.

        And it feels like I'm livin'in the wasteland of the free ~ Iris DeMent, 1996

        by MrJersey on Wed Mar 30, 2011 at 11:16:56 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  That is true to some extent (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      rhubarb, MrJersey

      Facebook only allows for one paragraph at a time. Maybe that is why Facebook is so popular. It doesn't take a lot of thought to post.

      Shop Liberally this holiday season at Kos Katalog

      by JamieG from Md on Wed Mar 30, 2011 at 09:09:00 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Maybe DKos isn't very interested in youth (3+ / 0-)

    or their perspectives. Maybe that is just how it is here. All the stats point to an older readership and it seems to me that is generally the case. DKos does have that prerogative to shape the participation on their site.

  •  Jing is a great tool (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    JamieG from Md, CherryTheTart

    for "producing" tutorials. You can get it Here. Yes, there are better ones out there, but Jing does the trick and hosts your "video," too. So, get Jing, make the step-by-step tutorial on how to post a Diary or whatever and you're good to go. Oh, and make your link a "tiny url" or "bit ly" (like tinyurl dot com / diarypost) so you know which tutorial is which, and can easily hand out the url to people.
    We need a bunch of How To tutorials on here.

  •  I would also hand out (0+ / 0-)

    slips of paper to H.S. and college kids you meet on your bouncing around town. Something like...
    "interested in politics? like Obama? here's your url:
    dailykos .com/blog/Youth %20 Kos"

  •  DailyYouth is my vote... (3+ / 0-)

    that way we aren't using a specific person's name. And we want daily posts or more!

  •  I'm not sure how to fix this but (5+ / 0-)

    I think it is important that the voices of young people be heard and that we respond to them in a thoughtful, respectful manner.  Perhaps comments on this diary were not intended to be disrespectful to youth perspectives but I can see how a young person would see comments about age providing wisdom and experience providing perspective as an indirect way of dismissing younger voices.

    During the '08 Obama campaign, I encouraged my three sons, who were between 18 and 20 at the time, to become involved in the campaign.  My 20 year old twins and I worked in the South Carolina primary.  My 18 year old son who was then a senior in high school was an intern on the local Obama campaign.  He worked tirelessly to register voters and engage other young people to support Obama and learn about their political system.  However, when he went to local Dem party meetings, his views were routinely overlooked as if to say, " you're a good boy, you're paying your dues, now shut up and do what we say."  

    While this attitude has not dampened his enthusiasm for political activism, it has caused him to be less inclined to listen to the people who dismissed him.  He thinks DKos is basically a rallying place for grumpy old people who have nothing better to do and would rather complain about the way things are than do anything about it.  

    That's too bad, because I have found that I learn quite a lot from my sons about how young people view morality and justice and the purpose of government.  But first I had to step back and listen to their voices.  One of the most important things I have learned from both my sons and my students is that young people would rather try to find a solution to a problem than fight about how to fix it.  Most of us older folks believe strongly in the idea that we must take a stand and defend it at all costs.  It doesn't hurt us to listen to what they have to say about encouraging dialogue rather than debate and coalition building rather than bolstering one's own side.  

    •  I think this is part of a greater problem we have (5+ / 0-)

      The Democratic Party seems very interested in young people: their votes, their willingness to volunteer, their enthusiasm for activism.  But young people are also interested in the institutional roles of the party.  And in those areas, there is very much a sense you should pay your dues, and wait for your turn.

      Part of the problem young progressives have, is that there is institutional pressure for them to wait to be involved, and as a result, why expose yourself now.

      If Person X is really interested in running for office, but has been told that they need to pay their dues first, they can do one of two things: keep talking about the issues they're passionate about, without having an actual input in how their ideas will be turned into law.  In that case, they have little direct control over how effective those policies will be - and if the people who were elected fail, their political ambitions are equally hurt by that failure.  The opposite is that the person can stay quiet, bide their time, and finally be offered an opportunity: the problem is that, by that time, we've lost out on the new, fresh input they would have provided to the policy of the day.

      The youngest members of Congress are Republicans.  Until young Democrats start getting elected across the country, they'll probably vote D, but they're going to feel somewhat disenfranchised from the institutional aspects of the party unless they start paying their dues at a very early age.

      •  Matt, you are making so many good points (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Tchrldy, northsylvania

        Shop Liberally this holiday season at Kos Katalog

        by JamieG from Md on Wed Mar 30, 2011 at 01:12:21 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  True that (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        JamieG from Md, Tchrldy
        The Democratic Party seems very interested in young people: their votes, their willingness to volunteer, their enthusiasm for activism...

        If you substitute Latinos, African Americans, Muslim, working class, gays, or women for "young people," you have pretty well summed up the attitude of the local Dem establishment I had experience with.
        As to letting them have a piece of the pie...they are allowed to go to state conventions and even work on committees, but if they actually try to introduce new ideas or concerns (or heaven forbid, run for office), pfffft, the friendliness ends there.
  •  Campus Progress, anyone? (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    JamieG from Md, northsylvania

    As a youth Kossack, I've become increasingly aware that I am a small minority. I like most of the people here, though, even though they're older (I'd guess many people here are 35-50); in fact, I kind of see it as inspiring, how everyone here is still fired up, and when they're not speaking up, their bolstering youth-spearheaded projects, such as the PCCC or yours truly.

    However, I'm not a member of Youth Kos, in particular because I feel it may be redundant. I regularly read , a college-student authored project of the Center for American Progress. I'm actually hoping to apply to write for them at some point.

    Like what you read? Follow me on Twitter:

    by JackinStL on Wed Mar 30, 2011 at 12:42:12 PM PDT

  •  Here, here! (4+ / 0-)

    I am 18 years old and I love the concept of Youth Kos. My generation isn't impossible when it comes to politics, it just seems like no one is really, really taking at effort and  are not looking at us as a legitimate voting bloc with wants and needs. I got seven other people to come with me to One Nation Working Together, it's possible. What us to pay attention and vote with passion? Focus on college tuition, student debt, improving high school lunches (petty, and benign but for many it would absolutely generate interest), legalizing marijuana, advocating internet freedom, making the balance between home, school, and work easier on the average student (high school and college), universal discounts on food, clothing for students, etc. Pander to us, from my observations in the average High School day we are a fairly self-centered bunch but we have our own issues that don't seem to matter. That's a big reason we are disconnected.

    10.2.10 - I was there 11.2.10 - I will be there

    by fgsfds on Wed Mar 30, 2011 at 01:41:39 PM PDT

    •  Internet Freedom (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      JamieG from Md

      Seems to me that Internet Freedom is a big issue once high schoolers understand the issue.

      College tuition...  yep.

      Those are two really big, important issues about which highschoolers and college students can relate.

      And the attack on college student's right to vote should be another one.

  •  My daughter just tried to sign up and comment. (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    northsylvania, JamieG from Md

    She filled out the form and did all the steps twice. She finally gave up.

    Is it impossible for two different posters to use the same computer/ipaddress?

    I used to be Snow White. And then I drifted. - Mae West

    by CherryTheTart on Wed Mar 30, 2011 at 02:27:28 PM PDT

  •  cheers to community spotlight (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    JamieG from Md

    I had no idea there was such a thing as 'youth kos'.

    I'm in my mid-twenties according to birth certificate, mid-forties according to my mind, so i cannot write for that group too much.

    but it'd be a great group for this site, which is predominantly older folk.

    witness the GOPranos...rethugs....Paul Wolfowitz: "If they fuck with me or Shaha, I have enough on them to fuck them too."

    by change the Be on Wed Mar 30, 2011 at 02:59:09 PM PDT

  •  I wonder if they resent older people for screwing (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    JamieG from Md

    up their world.

    •  that would be a good topic (0+ / 0-)

      in a diary for whatever group comes out of this.

      Shop Liberally this holiday season at Kos Katalog

      by JamieG from Md on Wed Mar 30, 2011 at 03:54:24 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  I'd Say Yes And No (2+ / 0-)

      I'm 28 and in my experience there is definitely anger at the Boomers, at least online. It's generally not something I talk about with others my age in reality and of course you have to be careful drawing generalizations from online posting. However, I think there is an undercurrent., for instance, can be instructive. Not only do you get the sort of memetic conversation that Strange New World describes, you get a fairly standard assortment of trolls, people out to prove the Greater Internet F-Wad Theory, lots of images, and so on. So, for instance, here are several headlines found by searching "Boomers" greenlighted on Fark:

      Good news, everyone. Baby-boomers won't be retiring from their jobs anytime in the near forever  

      You hate them, but your hatred is unfocused and this troubles you. So, here: four specific reasons to despise the baby boomers

      Simultaneously taking care of their elderly parents and unemployable kids while also bearing responsibilty for destroying western civilization is getting Baby Boomers down

      Baby Boomers on Social Security: "We must impose tough choices and hard sacrifices that will leave tomorrow's generation with a world they do not want to live in"  

      Now, most of these generate the same overall discussion every time. Remember, too, that all of these headlines link to an actual article somewhere on the Internet (the ones I listed go to CNBC, the WaPo, Time, and the WaPo again.)
      And you often see very similar comments about the Boomers from both GenX and GenY. Similarly, there are often threads about "snowflakes" and "kids today" and similar topics. But about the Boomers, here's a quote from one of the threads that I think might have widespread agreement if you could somehow poll it:
      As a generation (not all of them individually), they've spent their own wealth, squandered their parents' savings, and borrowed from their children's future, just to satisfy their never-ending desire to maintain their collectively opulent Boomer lifestyle.

      Each person in the USA starts out life tens (hundreds now?) of thousands of dollars in debt, with a destroyed environment and uncertain future, almost entirely because of the Boomers' massive uncontrolled borrow/buy binge.

      What I, and I think a lot of other people my age--at least the ones I've talked to--are also tired of is the constant need to look at the 1960s and Vietnam. I have heard many times that it was the Boomers behind the Civil Rights Movement, that it was the Boomers that ended Vietnam, Boomer this and Boomer that and it's now been 40 years since 1968 and Boomer Boomer Boomer. More stories in an issue of Newsweek in 2008 about the Boomers than the number of boomers in the US Navy. What I remember most about the 2004 election was that the media and the politicians were happy to spend all that time re-fighting Vietnam 30 years later instead of actually dealing with the problems of the day.

      And now, what do we get? A replay of the politics of the 1990s but without the booming economy. I'm 28 years old and I'd like to buy a house, but while I was growing up and then in college and graduate school property values ballooned like crazy. Now that I have a job, I'd like to be able to buy a house but I don't know if I'd be where I am long enough to make the hassle worth it over renting, or especially if I'd be able to get out easily if I had to. Or if I even want to deal with the market right now. I've survived several rounds of layoffs since I started working two years ago and I'm not sure how many more there will be or if I'm relatively protected or vulnerable. It stinks when it starts to feel like there's going to be a layoff every quarter to meet their quarterly projections or to try to pump up the stock price. Heck, I don't know how much longer I want to be in this current job. But I can't move jobs easily because the economy is still lousy and there still isn't a lot of hiring and there's a two-body problem (me and the fiancee) involved.

       I want to have kids but I keep feeling like the couple in the intro of Idiocracy. I'm not convinced that Social Security and Medicare will be there for me, even though the fixes (especially for Social Security) are fairly simple, but I know I'll keep having to pay in, broken system or not. I'm looking at my current 401k withholding and Roth IRA contributions and wondering, 35 years out, will it really be enough? Compound interest may be the most powerful force in the universe, but I'm screwed if the interest rate doesn't beat inflation.

      So at times, yes, I'd say I definitely resent the Boomers. Iraq and Afghanistan, the War on Drugs, the constant social warfare, 30 years of Reaganomics and related bubbles, narcissism, and the list could go on. It may not be too rational, it definitely may not be productive, but there are definitely times I'm sick of them all.

      I found something I wrote about six years ago on another message board, when Bush was talking about Social Security and I was 22. Here's what I wrote:

      There was a short story in F&SF in July 2000, "Dave Dickel's Historic Interview With the Inventor of the Hart Cart" by Nancy Etchemendy, that had as part of its background that Social Security collapsed. At least, I think that was the implied backstory. I don't have a copy of it available at the moment. It was also somewhat implied that the younger generation allowed the older ones to take the consequences. And quite frankly, I believe that people my age would be more likely to allow Social Security to default if it came to that. After all, you guys have had decades now to figure out a solution. You guys knew this was coming at least as early as the 80s. I don't know anyone that truly believes they will get anything from Social Security 40 years from now. Anyone my age who has actually thought about it realizes that they need to start putting money away now. I, for one, find it almost inconceivable that people now are banking on Social Security to provide for their retirement. Why weren't they invested long ago? Even if stocks were difficult to get before the Internet, what's wrong with savings bonds, T-bonds, CDs, IRAs, and plain old savings accounts? Why this blind trust in Social Security? Similarly, I bet there's a clear majority of support in my age demographic for the idea of private accounts along the lines President Bush is proposing. I truly wonder if not long from now it'll come down to a generational war where the children of the Baby Boomers (and younger) have to either decide to cut Social Security out from under their parents and grandparents or to take on a huge tax burden.

      I know I've changed, I don't agree with all of that today (I definitely wouldn't support Bush's proposal), but I can still see what I was thinking, even if I wouldn't support many things I said back then now. I think there is quite a large amount of ignorance in what I wrote. However, part of me still feels, at least at times, that "Well, they screwed up, let them take the consequences." It's just that now I realize that as satisfying as that may feel, it simply can't happen. Too much damage will be done.

      •  Well, I'm on the other end (0+ / 0-)

        nearing retirement. Things were never that 'great',
        there have always been problems and bad times.

        But I've learned a few things.

        One thing is don't sucked into the phony 'american lifestyle'. It wasn't very convincing back in the 60s and 70s and it's much worse now. NEVER believe it, it's all marketing or worse a total rip off.
        Train yourself to see why you don't need to buy
        things. Try to learn the real value of things.
        The 'american lifestyle' will ruin your life.

        Another thing is in the old days before credit cards it was much harder to get credit, but now it's incredibly easy to get (into debt).

        Save your money for retirement as early as you can even if is only $2 or 3k EVERY year(in IRAs if possible). It's a 99% certainty that you'll get old.

        Exercise and take care of your teeth everyday. When you're past 55 you can feel it. The healthier you are the happier you'll be.

        Working past 65 is not an option unless you own the business. Nobody wants to hire you, nobody wants to pay you or your health insurance.

        You should know that SS and medicare isn't optional when you retire, it's vital. For the majority of older people
        it's their main source of money; $1200 per month--which is the poverty line (unless GOOPers gets their way).

        On the plus side, keep your eyes open because there are going to be opportunities for younger adults. The best jobs I got presented as 'temporary  jobs'.

        Brush up those always indispensible computer skills, even if you hate computers.

        Don't worry too much about the future, there WILL be several times when you'll receive some really lucky breaks when you least expect it and they might not even look that good.


      •  This is really a good piece. (0+ / 0-)

        You should post it as a diary. It deserves to be explored.

        Shop Liberally this holiday season at Kos Katalog

        by JamieG from Md on Wed Mar 30, 2011 at 10:10:43 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  Announcing Youth Kos 2.0 (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    JamieG from Md

    Hey everyone,

    So as a result of the robust discussion that came from this diary, I've taken the initiative to start up Youth Kos 2.0.  I think it's clear from this conversation that there is an overwhelming number of users who believe Daily Kos will benefit from having a platform for young progressives.  After talking with JamieG from Md, I stepped forward to offer my services so that this vision can become a reality.  In the meantime, you can follow the new Youth Kos 2.0 here, and you can expect a diary in the coming days that will serve as a truly appropriate introduction to the group.  

    If you're interested in playing a role in Youth Kos 2.0, please feel free to send me a message.

    I'm really excited by the potential of this project - I hope you all are too.


  •  Brilliantly, I left out the link, here it is... (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    JamieG from Md

    Again, watch this space in the coming days (sadly I have papers to write in addition to launching this) for a more proper introduction.

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