Good morning. Welcome to The Hiddens, my ongoing series of diaries for reporting and discussing moderation activity on Daily Kos. My name is T. Max Devlin, and I will be your facilitator.
I wish I could say I'm getting talked out and this will be more streamlined. Given the minimal feedback I'm getting, I can't tell if making it briefer or codifying it more will make it better or worse. (That is, if you are immune to subtlety, a naked plea for attention, but also a plea for help. The views on yesterday's edition were half of the day before, but still over a hundred, so I know there's somebody out there. Please comment if you can, so I don't get lonely if nothing else.) If you've been following the series so far (day three!) then you know the issues. If you haven't, I'll be here most of the day (and at least some of the night probably) for questions.
Yesterday we left off with an unresolved hidden comment raising the question of whether baldly stating that the killing of Osama Bin Laden was an "illegal assassination" was HRable.
DK sure is a fun place...
The example showed that there was some controversy on that score, you may recall, since at least one TU tried to balance the nine that wanted it hidden. The answer is, of course, "it depends on the context", and given that the comment was made in a diary supporting a favorable view of the President, I'd say it clearly qualifies. Further, the 'illegal' jab was cemented with a closing line claiming the country is sliding towards "fascism under this president". Were it not an unfortunately common sentiment on this site (GG fans unite!) it would be beyond consideration, but even with that outrageous finish there was one TU uprating it.
Disposition: community moderation. Status: trivial
(It occurs to me I need some sort of unoffensive codes to designate the different sides of the 'big pie-fight' between overly-dissatisfied lefties and overly-complacent pragmatists. By rights this shouldn't be an issue for moderation, but since so many individual controversies mirror that great divide, it is going to come up. So that's my code: "trivial" means it is either extreme anti-Obama or excessive anti-anti-Obama rhetoric that lands the comment in hiddens.)
So let's pick up from there and consider a Kossack who got his tip jar hidden by suggesting in forceful terms that refusing to raise the debt limit is a good idea. I won't characterize his arguments further, but I will say that although only his tip jar has been hidden (with 6 HRs and 1 uprate) he did catch some less effective but in my view richly deserved pastry in the comments. Despite this, the 13 recs he got on a comment attacking the President because of something Dick Durbin said in another diary put him over the edge, and the same day his tip jar got hidden (on his first diary in over a year) he was awarded TU status. This after predicting last night that due to how unpopular his diary was (based on his summation of the reaction, I presume) he would lose all his mojo! Welcome to the ranks to him. I have no idea if this software is functioning at all. But I presume it is, and he had lots of residual mojo from some very old comments. Welcome to the ranks, TU!
Next up we have a potentially tricky case. A pair of comments in a diary defending the beauty of black women (as if their beauty is not its own defense) against an offensive savaging by a renowned expert in the field of evolutionary psychology {cobullshitugh} got pummeled with pastry, scoring 10, then 13 donuts without any uprates. I looked into the posting history of the comment's author, and I'm going to break my neotradition of focusing more on the comments than the participants. Best to have none of this get personal in that way; we're all trying to do the best we can, until we know otherwise. But this Kossack, I want to give a "call out" to. Sorry, I meant "shout out". (joke!) I'm impressed with this guy's candor and intelligence, his attitude, his politics, and his motivation. But not, I have to say, with his writing. His writing skills border on non-existent. He's been around DK since right after the 2006 election (he's probably the lowest UID that's appeared on the hiddens since I've been watching them, though normally I don't check that - date of registration is more informative). From his previous diaries and comments I skimmed, I've gathered that he's a black man living in Texas who came here after the 06 election. His first diary was a declaration of "Victory" that explained how he discovered Daily Kos because of Rush Limbaugh complaining about it. So I like this guy, I like him a lot. But boy, reading what he writes can be very hard. His grammar is atrocious and so are his typing skills; needless to say there's no proofreading or anything involved. But he does say things, I mean he's willing to participate, and if you work your way through the text you can see he's a quite intelligent person, just tough to read.
So what happened is he tried to throw the snide ridicule (snidicule?) at the Japanese EP huckster, and got the gender wrong in a pretty base racist ad hom 'back at ya ugly' kind of comment concerning Japanese women's self-image. If the context is one of camaraderie, where everyone is just piling on the big meanies outside the tent (the "expert" had authored a book calling Feminism "evil"), it was kind of just a joke. But if you read it (this is why I bothered mentioning his poor cyber-penmanship, if you will, because reading it gets tricky even if you think the context is clear) as a sober remark on racial attitudes, it can look quite suspicious and can easily produce the perception of a sexist racist rant from out of nowhere. So it gets buried, and a TU (who didn't HR, so that's nice form, but did respond in a way I'll call "dicey" and brief) replies essentially asking for an explanation, and correcting the gender. So this guy "doubles down" of course, and miscued about the need for an explanation ("dicey") insults Japanese men's sexual prowess. Splat; the even bigger bunch of donuts on that one.
I hope the guy can laugh about it. If being politically correct means not having this Kossack around, then I've got a great Dumb Blonde joke for you.
Dispostion: honest mistake. Status: laugh and move on.
And then we head into the weeds, because The Hiddens has just hit I/P.
Tuesday was very busy, and I haven't even finished Monday yet, so this might seem rushed. I hope to be caught up to real-time by next week, but that's obviously not going to happen if I keep falling behind.
Under a subject line referencing "Tawfik Hamid", a TU posted an obvious troll comment in a diary discussing Netanyahu containing a block quote from that author insisting that no progress can be made in Israel because the Palestinians are religious fanatics. (My paraphrase, obviously.) It was deemed Islamaphobic by other TUs and hidden, but has since been removed with four uprates on 11 HRs (and four separate replies in response, none of which did anything to avoid a pie fight). The reason I unambiguously identify it as a troll is not the contents of the message (though a comment I made in the thread does point out how the contents support that reading) but the way the poster responded to the hiding and criticism, not by trying to support the contentions expressed by reasoning or evidence but by proclaiming that dissent is being suppressed. I pointed out (I hope) that extremism should be suppressed whether it is in dissent or not, but that was before the comment got unhidden, so apparently at least some TUs disagree somehow. Regardless, the trolling TU landed in The Hiddens anyway for a followup comment which among other things described the reaction to the first comment as being like the Nazis, and not simply in a metaphoric Godwin-like sense. A look at his comment history shows a sprinkling of support, but also a sprinkling of pastry. Also, once trolled, the threads in the diary spawned another bunch of single-donuts with uprates and one abusively hidden comment (one abuser, at least, was kind enough to document the retributive nature of his HR. Retributive HRs can get you suspended or banned.)
Two quick remarks before we wrap on this. The commenter posted a reply in The Hiddens yesterday, which I think in context makes this troll post appear to be something of a demonstration. Knowing someone is watching the hiddens, the Kossack wanted to try to make a point. I think he did, but not the one he wanted (although the uprating does, of course, make that a bit ambiguous.) The second remark, which isn't causally related but seems appropriate to mention here because of the 'unhidden' part of this case, is that Yours Truly also spent a few hours on the hidden comment list last night while we slept. I was out before morning, thanks to the TUs who thought my reply was sufficiently reasonable to be abusively HRd.
The lesson to be learned, I think, is that any time you think you're being suppressed, it is possible that you're just being an asshole. Comments are hidden, not deleted; all the TUs can read them regardless. So quit it with the "See the violence inherent in the system, help help I'm being oppressed!" stuff. It is like walking around with a sign that says "I'm a troll" hanging around your neck. And it doesn't matter a bit which side of any political divide you are on.
Disposition: I/P trolling. Status: Potentially hard core
Checking the upthread context of the next hidden, the one with the subject line "what", reveals it to be smack-dab in the middle of a pie-fight over a reference to Dennis Kucinich as "crazy". I don't know what the reference was, I don't have time to check everything, but it was a sordid but entirely predictable pie fight. The relatively large group of people reccing comments defending Kucinich with the suggestion that he is the only "proper" Democrat are just as much to blame for the mess as anyone, so I won't bother with more details.
Disposition: HR abuse. Status: trivial pie fight
And then we have a return to The Hiddens from the Kossack of brief acquantence responsible for the "let's you and them fight" troll diary described yesterday, pitting "the black community" against "the gay community". Apparently he took to heart the success of his trolling and, rather than follow my advice to improve the quality of his contribution, decided that stirring shit was more fun. With three recs (I know I said uprates on tip jars are encouraged, but this is a bit ridiculous if you ask me) against 15 zeroes, the diary trying to take the Governator to task for his marital infidelities was a big fail. Or would be, if it hadn't generated 255 comments. One or two of them were actually from the author, though, so we're making progress there. But his "hard to tell failed snark from lame" approach to diary writing still does not bode well.
Disposition: Troll. Status: Professional troll, but could improve.
The rest of the hiddens at the time of this writing mostly relate to three particular occurrences. The scenarios here make obvious the fact that my efforts are not even marginal, but just plain quixotic. I am on the outside looking in, and the vast majority of Kossacks don't give a fig what I have to say. I expect most of the ones that most need my help and are most unwilling to take it are simply glad I'm isolating myself by wasting all this time while they go "do damage" to the other side, regardless of what other side they want it to be.
I have been discussing the issue of 'true trolls', pointlessly disruptive outside agitators of a particularly unfocused type. They might well be People With Problems, but not like the clinical type that I believe affected Aidos. More adolescent or even sort of pro-forma. Proving they can say something inciteful or believing they can say something insightful, their persistence more than anything else is what makes them trolls.
One used the username TheRiceCooker, and managed to get a whole seven comments posted since registering last week (all in the last two days) before being detected and banished. I think this goes to show that neither social or community moderation is necessary for these types; there are admin methods of detecting this species of hard core troll that uses sockpuppets or false registrations. Its worth pointing out (this will be addressed again a couple cases down) that I haven't the foggiest idea how any of that is handled or how it works.
Disposition: Troll. Status: Admin.
Then we have an intriguing case. Registering with the obvious username Red State Ambassador, and writing a diary entitled "I'm from Red State and I'm here to Educate", this bozo received an astounding one hundred and twenty five HRs on his tip jar. The diary has been deleted, but today he replaced it with a similar troll. Needless to say, the response has been tiresomely predictable and tediously trite, as folks who love pile-ons flock to engage in the "HR+snide ridicule" which is so potently ineffectual against trolling. For their efforts, they've sunk five or so of his comments deep into the hiddens with dozens of donuts. A simple skimming of his comments reveals he's more of a wannabe troll than a real one; tough to say how serious the pose of Red State Ambassador is, though, so I don't mind naming him. He's still got mojo left, and apparently he isn't being treated as HOS outside his troll diaries despite the username.
Disposition: Unknown, probably casual trolling. Status: Clusterfuck.
One TU got a comment hidden (1/6) for ragging on Russ Feingold. Given the diary was concerning Feingold's support of the President on the subject of campaign finance, I say good riddance to bad rubbish. It didn't seem to actually interfere with any discussion, though, so there's still some ambiguity, even with the course language and asinine accusations in the comments. The poster is something of an old timer, though, so he doesn't care, I'm sure. I know more than one person has told me they appreciate the ability to occasionally let loose with an over-the-top rant, and have it hidden afterwards. I don't know what that means for community moderation, but I can't say I'm entirely unfamiliar with the experience.
Disposition: meltdown. Status: ignore.
And then we have a truly iconic display. A TU who has been a Kossack since 2007 decided they were going to take aim at Meteor Blades in the comments section of a front page article on the situation of mortgage lenders. With a subject line which included the word "Jews", I think you can imagine what kind of display it was. But you can't, because it didn't make that much sense. My guess is (and, yes, I'm starting to get a bit lax with the investigation shtick) it was a botched bit of humor, similar to the Texas Kossack I wrote about yesterday. But MB practically invented confusing community moderation with social moderation, and obviously he had no shortage of TU/assistant bullies to back him up. After getting three comments hidden (with 31, 15, and 3 hydrates, and obviously no uprates) in the escalating-insult pie fight this approach always causes, apparently he gave up, wisely. Only the I/P case earlier today rivals this one for exemplifying the utterly typical and confoundedly counter-productive this approach still is, as it was when it was developed by the first self-satisfied troll-stomper, back when Ethernet was two tin cans and a piece of string. It still isn't at all clear what the "troll" thought they were doing.
Disposition: Iconic. Status: wtf?
Another fun one: in a rec list diary charged with controversy to begin with (a contrary perspective on Cornel West which got 380 tips but 11 HRs on the tip jar, to give you some context) someone though it would be a good idea to throw the OJ verdict into the discussion for no real reason, and picked up 7 donuts with no uprates, but also resulted in 27 comments in reply threads. More evidence that most folks don't know the difference between responding to a troll and getting trolled, and believe that snide ridicule is the proper response in almost all cases of communication failure.
Disposition: casual troll. Status: accidental troll.
Without more investigation that I am able or willing to do, it isn't possible, I don't think, to tell whether the next user is a professional troll, full-on agitprop style, or a really serious subject troll, casual type. They only joined us in April, and since then have been posting literally nothing but comments poo-pooing alarm in diaries discussing the Fukushima situation. There are other (not necessarily pro-nuke, but some are) Kossacks who have been voicing alarm at the alarm, as far left perspectives of reports that turn out to be wrong lead to CT and sincere but laughable amounts of cynicism. But this person does practically nothing but that, and while nothing he has posted appears too purposefully provocative, even a fair-minded person like myself does wonder if it really is a shill, or just someone who has a pet issue and a contrarian streak mixed with really bad timing. The one exception to this poster's focus on nukes was when they first started posting. Unfortunately, that was to try to insult Darksyde when he (supposedly) had some minor detail wrong in one of his copious and informative science articles.
Disposition: casual troll. Status: under consideration.
You know, with every single one of these cases, I always figure there's going to be a quick and straight-forward one, and then some related issue bumps it from process to meta. But I'm going to skip over some miscellaneous meltdown/disruption instances from various diaries representing snark gone bad, mostly. The most recent on the list is the Tip Jar (1/15, sorry 2/15 since I recd it) for a diary entitled "Schwarzenegger Travels Back In Time To Kill Pregnant Housekeeper", a parody riffing off of the Terminator, obviously. I read the diary, and it is clearly humor (tries to be at least) from the first sentence, just in case you didn't get it from the title. And unfortunately (or fortunately, I guess, depending on how sensitive you think we're all supposed to be) there were a few Kossacks who couldn't get anything from the title, because the words "kill" and "pregnant" being together like that tripped a circuit breaker in their brains. Then the diary got republished by the "Trolls" group (bringing that whole issue to the fore again). I found the premise funny and the parody amusing. Not laugh-out-loud funny (and certainly a bit obvious) but it was free, so why complain?
More than anything else, this incident appears to be conclusive evidence that everyone on DK is losing their sense of humor. Apparently we're all becoming, as famous left wing radio host Stephanie Miller would say, "stick-up-the-butt liberals".
Disposition: humor. Status: not PC enough.
I took these last few out of order because I wanted to end on this one. A member of the Black Kos community published a diary (personal diary, not through a group) extending the Cornel West discussion mentioned earlier. I'm not sure if it was purposeful, but it seemed to reflect some of my efforts here, because the diarist seems to have tried to implement one of the 'community moderation guidelines' I suggested recently, namely identifying the moderation policy explicitly, for example using categories. In the diary, the following appeared very near the end:
Now for the rules.
NO HR'ing in this diary period. Don't do it.
Apparently the intention was to have a "discussion diary", with open debate and no pie fights. How well do you think that turned out? Not only did one comment from another user get hidden (then apparently came out again when the HRs were removed), but then a nasty little pie fight ended up dropping the diarist into the hiddens, ironically with the one line comment "fuck you" (5/20).
Having been HRd for using that phrase in comments in my own diary (in response to a vicious smear, of course) I know that can really sting. And I don't think it is at all appropriate. But that's just me; community moderation requires consensus. Some support for that consensus can be found in that thread, when a comment expressing the idea that profanity is not HRable (dubious but understandable) and using the counter-analogy of "afternoon tea with the local church elders".
Disposition: HR abuse. Status: Community moderation.
Finally (yes, for now, finally, because I've caught up to real time for the first time since starting this self-torture) we have celebrity Kossack Alan Grayson to Daily Kos! Mr. Grayson posted a diary with a light bit of humor at Sarah Palin's expense, and the 'pseudo-troll' Red State Ambassador mentioned earlier thought he could get away with a snarky jab in reply. Didn't work (0/4).
Disposition: Troll. Status: quite funny, actually.
Well, believe it or not, that's it for now. Tomorrow AM there will already be a list of interesting new things to learn about DK, though, you can be sure. See you in The Hiddens.