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Yet another poll, this one from CNN, demonstrates that the American public rejects the Republican budget plan to end Medicare so that the rich can get another tax break.

According to a CNN/Opinion Research Corporation survey, a majority also don't think the GOP has cooperated enough with President Barack Obama and, for the first time since they won back control of the House last November, the number of Americans who say that Republican control of the chamber is good for the country has dropped below the 50 percent mark.

The poll indicates that 58 percent of the public opposes the Republican plan on Medicare, with 35 percent saying they support the proposal. The survey's Wednesday release comes as the president met with House Republicans to discuss, among other things, Medicare reform....

"Half of those we questioned say that the country would be worse off under the GOP Medicare proposals and 56 percent think that GOP plan would be bad for the elderly," says CNN Polling Director Keating Holland. "Opposition is highest among senior citizens, at 74 percent, suggesting that seniors are most worried about changes to Medicare even if those changes are presented as ones that would not affect existing Medicare recipients."

"A majority of all demographic groups don't favor the GOP Medicare proposals," Holland adds. "That includes conservatives—54 percent of them don't like the plan. As a result, rank-and-file Republicans are split right down the middle, with 48 percent favoring the GOP plan and 50 percent opposed."

Which is kind of fun, since Republicans voted, again, today to do away with Medicare. In a rule vote for passing Homeland Security appropriations, 231 Republicans voted to "deem and pass" the Republican budget and end Medicare. They'll be taking that vote again, and again, and again with every appropriations bill, because the Republican budget will be reflected in all the appropriations bills.

Rep. Ed Markey had some fun with the bill and recent news, explaining how the "Republican Rapture" brings "billionaires and Big Oil to the economic stratosphere" while leaving "grandma and students behind."

Seems like this bill is political purgatory for the GOP, but on a more serious note, there's a message in this polling and that from Anzalone Liszt Research, which was also released today. It also reinforces this message for Dems: "The public's support for Medicare in roughly its current form seems unshakable, and Dems have clearly succeeded in framing this fight as one between Medicare's saviors and its would-be destroyers. This will only supply more grist to Democrats who are arguing that it would be insane for Dems to agree to Medicare benefits cuts, and that so doing could squander a situation in which Dems seem to be in total control of the debate."

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Comment Preferences

    •  GOP seems to have done everything they (15+ / 0-)

      accused Dems of doing with healthcare bill last year.

    •  Remember that BS? (15+ / 0-)

      I wish we had Democrats who hated these clowns as much as I do. You don't win brownie points for civility when dealing with sociopathic monsters.

      •  nor do you win brownie points by adopting the (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Mike in Wa

        sociopath's programs.

        Ryan's plan for Medicare is, after all, not very different from what Dems already have done for everyone else. Mandated insurance. Hooray.

        If the sociopaths agree with our program (and the FP here has been filled for weeks with variations of "Repugs love the same mandates we do!!!"), that means there's something wrong with our program. And when both parties make the same proposal, then attack each other for making it, that means that it's all just partisan patter and posturing.  There simply is no real disagreement. They want mandates, and so do we. The only difference is whether we have a single-tier system where everyone gets mandated (the Repug plan), or whether we have a two-tiered system where some (the young and healthy) get mandated, while others (the old and sick who the insurance companies don't want anyway) don't.

        •  your analogy is inaccurate (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          LI Mike, skohayes, bythesea

          First of all, Ryan's plan does not impose an individual mandate on seniors. In fact, the whole unspoken point of Ryan's plan is to encourage seniors to basically drop out of Medicare altogether by forcing them to pay enormous premiums, premiums that would be larger due to a risk pool even costlier than the one all seniors already represent.

          Second, regardless of what you think about the approach of the mandate/exchange half of PPACA (the other half, keep in mind, does create a government-financed single-payer system for those 200% under the poverty level), the simple fact is that it created benefits and subsidies where there was previously none. Ryan's plan, in contrast, is based on reducing benefits and subsidies.

          Of course, you can still argue that PPACA is mostly a misguided, conservative piece of legislation, an argument with which I would mostly agree. However, it doesn't really have the same ends or methods as the Ryan Plan.

          •  Really? (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            bythesea

            And how are we making sure that those of us in that under 200% of poverty level will even have access to Medicaid in 2014 when we are supposed to be covered under this great plan?

            It's not a given -- not by a long shot -- unless they make the plan federal like Medicare.

            I live in a state (not Washington) which is busily trying to dismantle the Medicaid system. If that fails, they will still refuse to add anyone who is not currently eligible -- which does not include any childless adults.

            "The difference between the right word and the almost-right word is like the difference between lightning and the lightning bug." -- Mark Twain

            by Brooke In Seattle on Wed Jun 01, 2011 at 04:44:43 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

    •  Gloria Borger managed to put a negative spin on (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      TofG

      the poll numbers that she must have pulled right out of the air. She claimed the reason people don't like the Ryan plan is thhat they are all confused. People 55 and over, according to Borger, are upset because they believe the Ryan plan will affect them badly even though it's been explained over and over that it won't. And, again according to Borger, the majority of people under 55 are upset because they similarly believe the Ryan plan will have a bad affect on their parents. Borger is either an idiot or lying through her teeth.

      I'm ashamed to admit I know this because it means I watched CNN tonight. It's become very little better than FAUX news. It should be boycotted.

      Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from a religious conviction. -- Blaise Pascal

      by RJDixon74135 on Wed Jun 01, 2011 at 05:34:09 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Over at C&L speculation is that the GOP's (13+ / 0-)

    latest strategy, now that it is obvious 50% of their own ranks oppose this harebrained economic plan, is to rope enough Democrats into supporting Medicare  cuts that come elections, they are able to tie the cuts, albatross like, around the Democrats' necks.  Previous history indicates that Democrats may line up for the chance to commit electoral suicide.

    Boehner has rolled out a group of 150 economists who claim unless there are immediate and deep spending cuts, that the economy will tank even farther.  Unfortunately, this group is a group of Reagan, Bush I and Bush II hacks who presided over tax cuts, deficit spending and profligate government expansion who are now alarmed at events precipitated by their own failed policies and principles

  •  Republicans (8+ / 0-)

    were also telling Obama to stop saying that they would turn Medicare into vouchers. These were the same people who were fear mongering all of last year but they feel offended when Obama is only telling the truth about what they want to do with Medicare. Obama should tell Paul Ryan to toughen up and stop crying on national TV.

    Ryan, a Wisconsin Republican who chairs the House Budget Committee, pressed the president to stop describing his 2012 budget plan, which would replace the government-run system for senior health care with a privately administered program as a “voucher,” according to several Republicans in attendance.

    Read more: http://www.politico.com/...

    President Barack Obama and Democrats: Moving America forward since 2008.

    by ehstronghold on Wed Jun 01, 2011 at 03:56:20 PM PDT

    •  If President Obama allows his GOP opposition (12+ / 0-)

      to dictate to him what kind of framing he's allowed to use, on this or any other issue, he's the worst politician in American history.  Republicans will give literally nothing in return for what they're asking Obama to do.  Recall the health care debate, when several Republicans amendments were agreed to, and Republicans awarded Dems with zero votes?  I know for a fact that the president is smarter than this.

      The GOP is pants-pissingly scared that their proposal to turn Medicare into a voucher program will cost them their majority in 2012; thus, their pathetic request to the POTUS.  I'd do what Carville advises his clients: when your opponent is drowning, throw the motherf*cker an anchor.

      Barack Obama in the Oval Office: There's a black man who knows his place.

      by Greasy Grant on Wed Jun 01, 2011 at 04:10:15 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Meanwhile they insulted Obama (8+ / 0-)

      as soon as they left and even when they were talking with him.  Fuck them that Obama has no plan.  He passed the ACA.  That's the plan - contain costs.  What don't these lying POS's understand about containing costs?

      "The real wealth of a nation consists of the contributions of its people and nature." -- Rianne Eisler

      by noofsh on Wed Jun 01, 2011 at 04:16:35 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Those lying (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Matt Z, jarhead5536, theworksanddays

        Pieces of Shit refuse to acknowledge reality.  And we can't MAKE them do so.  We can just hand them the pistols with which they will shoot themselves in the feet and get tossed out of office even by GOP voters.

        grin

        Over the past 30-odd years, the Democrats have moved to the right, and the Republicans have moved into a mental hospital. --Bill Maher

        by Youffraita on Wed Jun 01, 2011 at 04:26:40 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Red meat to the base. (0+ / 0-)

        The batshit nuts that elected the current Republican majority don't understand and will not accept such bedrock Capitol Hill truths as compromise and mutual respect.  The freshman are already learning - too late - that simply digging in your heels and refusing to negotiate with our duly elected President will get you nothing of what you want.  Hope that plays well back in Reds Neck, Wherever...

        When do I get to vote on your marriage?

        by jarhead5536 on Wed Jun 01, 2011 at 05:38:50 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  The gift that keeps on giving. (8+ / 0-)

    Now all we've got to do is put Steny Hoyer in a lockbox.

  •  So, we should stick by our principles and keep our (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    beltane, Mike in Wa, ferg, theworksanddays

    promises?
    That's gonna be tough for many triangulating Democrats.  I hope they can actually keep it together.

    Being ignorant is not so much a shame, as being unwilling to learn. - Poor Richard's Almanac 1755 The government exists to protect us from the thugs who got rich ripping off our ancestors. - Mungley 2011

    by mungley on Wed Jun 01, 2011 at 03:58:38 PM PDT

  •  What the White House needs to do (9+ / 0-)

    is get out in front on this.  The President should publicly say that we need to have a great debate on what direction we need to take on the economy.  This should be the debate that motivates the 2012 elections.  Should we as a country end Medicare as we know it, while retaining and expanding tax cuts for the wealthiest Americans, or, should we attempt to control spending, increase revenues, and change the way in which Medicare and Medicaid reimburse the medical profession in order to ensure both lesser cost and better care.  We need to let the American people decide.  Tax cuts and Medicare/Medicaid cuts from Republicans, or smarter government investing in ourselves, and providing greater equity in our tax code from the Democrats.  

    Until then, we simply need to raise the debt ceiling enough to fund the government through early 2013.  Then, the new Congress and the President, having a mandate from the people, can implement their plans.

    That is what they should do.  It steals the big idea from the GOP and sets things up for a massive win for Democrats, both in the WH and on the Hill, in 2012.

    One of the painful things about our time is that those who feel certainty are stupid, and those with any imagination and understanding are filled with doubt and indecision -- Bertrand Russell

    by Its the Supreme Court Stupid on Wed Jun 01, 2011 at 04:02:00 PM PDT

  •  The Republican cRapture. LOL. If you spend enough (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Mike in Wa, Brooke In Seattle

    money, they think you can make bullshit smell like Channel No. 5.

    Doing my part to piss off the religious right...one smart ass comment at a time.

    by tekno2600 on Wed Jun 01, 2011 at 04:04:22 PM PDT

  •  Nice bit by Representative Markey (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    prodigal, tekno2600, theworksanddays

    Republican Rapture indeed!

    •  Spiritually, they already raptured in greedy pig (0+ / 0-)

      heaven. You just can see it. But, their spirits are dancing around on clouds, oinking, and playing harps.

      Doing my part to piss off the religious right...one smart ass comment at a time.

      by tekno2600 on Wed Jun 01, 2011 at 04:15:29 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Now it's time to "snatch defeat..." (3+ / 0-)

    [Signed] - Harry Reid

  •  Frankly, folks. I'm planning to move to (5+ / 0-)

    Vermont on the day after I retire.  Then I'm going to spend every spare dime I have boosting the Vermont economy.

    I want to live in the Rational States of America.  I've had it with the rest.

    (semi-snark)

    That's understandable when I realize that I can't feel my body.

    by prodigal on Wed Jun 01, 2011 at 04:13:09 PM PDT

  •  don't count it out (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Brooke In Seattle, Buzzer

    the GOP is very good at selling people unpopular ideas.

    Don't give up... hold our party leaders accountable.

    by owl06 on Wed Jun 01, 2011 at 04:14:14 PM PDT

    •  Agreed. (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      owl06

      But the GOP demographic is old...very old.  Retirement old.  And they loves them some Medicare.  The liberal demographic is (cough) younger than me.  So we've got the blue-hair set hating on the GOP, and the kids hating on the GOP, and basically the smallest demographic of all -- the rich -- loving the GOP.

      Now it is time to GOTV.

      Over the past 30-odd years, the Democrats have moved to the right, and the Republicans have moved into a mental hospital. --Bill Maher

      by Youffraita on Wed Jun 01, 2011 at 04:31:13 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  GOP demographic is key (0+ / 0-)

        If the D's and potential D's, meaning the over 60 R's, will stay in lock step, then "we" old folks can drive the
        R old folks crazy.
        The R political leadership forget that it is real working folks who depend on Medicare who will gut the R's this election to protect "our" Medicare!

    •  It didn't work when Bush (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      theworksanddays, owl06

      wanted to privatize Social Security, it won't work now.

      Three months after President Bush launched his drive to restructure Social Security by creating private investment accounts, public support for his program remains weak, with only 35 percent of Americans now saying they approve of his handling of the issue, according to a new Washington Post-ABC News poll.

      While the White House has helped convince more than two-thirds of those polled that Social Security is heading for a crisis or possible bankruptcy without change, 56 percent disapprove of his approach, a survey of 1,001 adults conducted March 10-13 shows. By comparison, 38 percent approved of his handling of the issue and 52 percent disapproved of it in mid-December.

      Here's the money quote for Dems to remember this time around (and that includes us!):

      Moreover, 58 percent of those polled this time said the more they hear about Bush's plan, the less they like it. The latest polling, combined with detailed interviews last week, shows that Bush's drive to significantly alter the 70-year-old national insurance program has run into significant hurdles with every age cohort.

      http://www.washingtonpost.com/...

      How come the dove gets to be the peace symbol? How about the pillow? It has more feathers than the dove and doesn't have that dangerous beak. Jack Handey

      by skohayes on Wed Jun 01, 2011 at 04:54:56 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Just see that lying POS Bilray on MSNBC (4+ / 0-)

    Gawd the way these people lie is unbelievable.  Changing Medicare in this way will destroy the system for everyone.  It's total bullshit that no one over 55 will not be effected.  Once the system is partitioned, there will be popular outrage that our taxes pay for that system and yet all people under 55 will get is a stinking voucher.

    "The real wealth of a nation consists of the contributions of its people and nature." -- Rianne Eisler

    by noofsh on Wed Jun 01, 2011 at 04:15:12 PM PDT

    •  Exactly, the donut hole filling... (0+ / 0-)

      that the ACA directs would immediately stop.  Gee, I wonder why rethugs don't talk about that?  

      "The United States will not be able to dictate the pace and scope of this change. Only the people of the region can do that. But we can make a difference." 3/28/11

      by BarackStarObama on Wed Jun 01, 2011 at 04:27:57 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  If 35% of Americans support the Ryan plan, (7+ / 0-)

    that tells me that it's the Democrats who have a messaging problem.

    When I was young and naive, I thought that Republicans wanted the same things for America that Democrats did, but just thought there was a better way of achieving it. Now I know better. Republicans are evil fucking dicks.

    by jazzmaniac on Wed Jun 01, 2011 at 04:15:15 PM PDT

  •  But the GOP are just so bold acccording to the (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    RaulVB, skohayes

    Loser press. Bold into extinction I guess.

  •  They're convinced that (0+ / 0-)

    they're right and the public still supports them. Mainly because that's what the conservative media tells them.

  •  The Wendy Theory (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Mike in Wa, skohayes

    Serious Pundits keep insisting that the Republican Plan to get rid of Medicare and replace it with a voucher program is not “getting rid of Medicare” as long as the voucher program is renamed Medicare. This is hereby dubbed the Wendy Theory.

    David Vitter (allegedly)cheated on his wife Wendy with another woman named Wendy. Therefore, he’s always been faithful to Wendy.

    I shall die, but that is all that I shall do for Death; I am not on his payroll. - Edna St. Vincent Millay

    by Tara the Antisocial Social Worker on Wed Jun 01, 2011 at 04:34:53 PM PDT

  •  THEY DON'T CARE. (0+ / 0-)

    Public opinion has no bearing on this.  And the Republicans know that if they can force this thru, they won't suffer for it.  If they remain in office, their health care is subsidized.  If they leave office, they fall up, into cushy jobs with great perks.  The damage will be long lasting because how many legislative atrocities get reversed?  Ever?  And when you think of one, how many years did it take?  Don't cite DADT, that's still "in process."  The whole point is to shift the concept, the Overton Window, and in that the Republicans have triumphed repeatedly and brilliantly.  This whole conversation is a desperate rearguard action, which just illustrates how far the Republicans have succeeded in moving the window.

    "The worst that can happen to any group of people working to unseat an existing power base is their failure to imagine the lengths to which those in power will go to keep it." Cognitive Dissonance at Zero Hedge

    by CarolinNJ on Wed Jun 01, 2011 at 04:42:21 PM PDT

  •  Actually (0+ / 0-)

    Only liberals and RINOs watch CNN, and that makes the entire survey biased from the beginning.

    So there!

    Well, I heard that on a conservative website.  

  •  I'd like to see the demographics and an income (0+ / 0-)

    breakdown for those who support the Republican plan.

    Republican tears sustain me.

    by orson on Wed Jun 01, 2011 at 04:56:16 PM PDT

  •  We'll probably blow it (0+ / 0-)

    Hey, we're Democrats.   ;-)

  •  The GOP's devotion (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    theworksanddays

    to it's batshit insane base, fiscal and social conservatives alike, is really fun to watch, and almost makes me feel sorry for a serious candidate like Romney.  Almost.  Hell, we may not even have to do anything next year while they defeat themselves...

    When do I get to vote on your marriage?

    by jarhead5536 on Wed Jun 01, 2011 at 05:24:41 PM PDT

    •  "we" have to gut the R senior base (0+ / 0-)

      We, have to make clear to the seniors that "we" need to move that base from FOX to anyplace else in order to make clear that seniors do not support FOX.  The stupidity of the R leadership can undermine a whole generation of seniors for us.
      Those senoirs who watch FOX are scared to to admit that FOX us destroying FOX for "us."

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