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This is about the May 12th 2011 article that appeared on NKY.com written by Mike Winn, about the Sons of Confederate Veterans trying to get a heritage license plate to honor the fallen confederate solders.  The group wants the state of Kentucky to issue a license plate that would have the confederate flag as the backround.

The news story can be found here: http://nky.cincinnati.com/...

Below is my letter to Representative Geoff (Jefferson?) Davis - KY 4th (R)

Should Kentucky have a confederate license plate?

I open the discussion.....

5819689847_1f1211af56

Dear Representative Davis,

I am writing about the May 12th 2011 article that appeared on NKY.com written by Mike Winn, about the Sons of Confederate Veterans trying to get a heritage license plate to honor the fallen confederate solders.  

It can be found here: http://nky.cincinnati.com/...

I bring this to your attention because the Kentucky Confederate License Plate is not about honoring fallen confederate solders; it is instead truly about validating a discredited belief system.  These are people that despise the north and the US Government and openly laud acts of sedition, and wait each day the opportunity to restore the south to its former glory.

This is really about refighting a war over slavery in this century.

While the overwhelming majority of people that live south of the Mason Dixon line or that reside in Kentucky don’t think like this.  This effort represents civil war ideological throwbacks looking to bring old thoughts back into the collective consciousness.  It just starts with a license plate.

I would ask you to publically speak up against any such effort to allow a confederate flag to be placed on Kentucky’s license plates, and would ask that both personally and professionally oppose the effort of this group. I would also like to send or email you correspondence between myself and this group to clarify why I feel you must oppose this group if you have any doubts as to why they must be stopped.

This is not a Democratic or Republican issue -- it involves reason, and I would expect all reasonable people to speak against this group’s efforts.  Given your name, the state you represent, and the heritage of Jefferson Davis the president of the confederacy -- your opposition to this is absolutely critical.  

I implore you do the right thing, and speak out on this issue.

Thank you for your time today.

Michael Ramsdell
Erlanger KY.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I will send copies of the correspondence between myself and this group to clarify why I feel you must oppose this group if you have any doubts as to why they must be stopped.  Email me at The Loose Cannon [aloosecannon@fuse.net]

Poll

Should Kentucky Issue a Confederate License Plate?

44%72 votes
55%90 votes

| 162 votes | Vote | Results

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Comment Preferences

  •  150 Years Later They're Sorry They Didn't Join?? (9+ / 0-)

    We are called to speak for the weak, for the voiceless, for victims of our nation and for those it calls enemy.... --ML King "Beyond Vietnam"

    by Gooserock on Fri Jun 10, 2011 at 07:37:25 PM PDT

    •  Exactly, Kentucky never seceded... (7+ / 0-)

      from the Union, but did have a shadow government representing the Confederacy in parts of the state.

      "The United States will not be able to dictate the pace and scope of this change. Only the people of the region can do that. But we can make a difference." 3/28/11

      by BarackStarObama on Fri Jun 10, 2011 at 07:58:41 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Notice this is in N KY near Cincinnati (0+ / 0-)

      The Northern Kentucky region is basically a huge suburban piled-up growth of suburbs of Cincinnati.

      It's really amazing to see it... from N Ky all the way up to Dayton... actually all the way to Lima & Van Wert. It's uber conservative Redsville Alley with city after city that grows into each other.  

      The liberal coasts may have their megapolis, but the Midwest has the same thing with the Bible Belt crew crowding into this area. Cincinnati has a vicious mean streak of bigotry and it grows north and south.

      Anyway, the majority of Kentuckians don't think like this. And Eastern Kentucky was solidly in the Union camp. And they were rewarded for it by having their homes and communities and water and land destroyed by out-of-state mining companies.


      I have spread my dreams under your feet; Tread softly, because you tread on my dreams. --William Butler Yeats

      by bronte17 on Sat Jun 11, 2011 at 02:06:54 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  It's basic to me. (8+ / 0-)

    The Confederacy was defeated.  Any one of the United States of America has no business celebrating the Confederacy's treason.  (Unlike the Revolutionaries they did not win, so their taking up arms against the U.S. was treason, not fighting for freedom.)  

    Besides, in the immortal words of one of their modern heros: You're either with us or against us.        

    Republicans: if they only had a heart.

    by leu2500 on Fri Jun 10, 2011 at 07:49:29 PM PDT

    •  If it were up to me, (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      ontheleftcoast, Arnie

      I would have the Battle Flag symbolize the soldiers, sailors, and ordinary civilians who suffered during the war; and the civil flag, the "Stars and Bars" represent the politicians and business elites who made their suffering necessary.

      But it's not up to me. The people who decided how the late 20th and early 21st Centuries would see the flag were the Klan and the White Citizens Councils who sought to wrap White Supremacy in the mantle of loyalty to the South.

      Going back to Bacon's Rebellion in the 17th Century, the South used race (among other reasons) to manipulate the poorer members of the First Class Citizenry to focus their anger on the Second Class Citizenry. All that's changed now is the composition of the underclass.

      The Sons of Confederate Veterans has long played the Victim Card in distorting people's understanding of the causes of the Civil War, arguing that it was about States' Rights when the biggest violation of that principle was the Fugitive Slave Law, or the protective tariff when Louisiana, dominated by sugar planters, wanted to be protected from Caribbean competition.

      They use the same tactic as to how they weren't responsible for the flag's being appropriated by the Klan. They say they resisted, and maybe they did. But to the extent they did, they lost; and they should acknowledge that they lost.

      Greg McKendry, Linda Kraeger, Dr. George Tiller, Steven Johns. Victims of Wingnut violence

      by Judge Moonbox on Fri Jun 10, 2011 at 08:28:50 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  These Hilljack Racists (5+ / 0-)

    Around here still playact the Civil War for funsies.....And they think they fucking won.

  •  Kentucky Was NOT A Member Of The Confederacy (11+ / 0-)

    Even though the Confederacy claimed Kentucky through a rival Kentucky government of Confederate sympathizers passing a secession ordinance, the legitimate elected government of Kentucky was loyal to the Union.

    On September 4, 1861, Confederate Major General Leonidas Polk violated the Commonwealth's neutrality by ordering Brigadier General Gideon Johnson Pillow to occupy Columbus... In response to the Confederate invasion, Union Brigadier General Ulysses S. Grant left Cairo, Illinois and entered Paducah, Kentucky on September 6, which gave the Union control of the northern end of the New Orleans and Ohio Railroad and the mouth of the Tennessee River.

    Governor Magoffin denounced both sides for violating the Commonwealth's neutrality, calling for both sides to withdraw. However, on September 7, 1861, the General Assembly passed a resolution ordering the withdrawal of only Confederate forces. Magoffin vetoed the resolution, but both houses overrode the veto, and Magoffin issued the proclamation. The General Assembly ordered the Union flag to be raised over the state capitol in Frankfort, declaring its allegiance with the Union.

  •  I consider flying the Confederate flag (13+ / 0-)

    announcing one's disloyalty to this country.

    "Intolerance is something which belongs to the religions we have rejected." - J.J. Rousseau -6.38, -4.15

    by James Allen on Fri Jun 10, 2011 at 07:57:34 PM PDT

  •  But what if you refuse? (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    irishwitch

    What if you won't put this plate on your car, what can they do to you?

    I'm in the I-fucking-love-this-guy wing of the Democratic Party!

    by doc2 on Fri Jun 10, 2011 at 07:59:44 PM PDT

  •  N-O -- NO, NO, and never (7+ / 0-)

    NO to a Confederate plate in Ky.  Kentucky was not part of the CSA.

    We need to confront, challenge, and end racist comments and action in America.  Kentucky's refusal to allow a Confederate plate will help.  

  •  We already have "Friends of Coal" license plates.. (3+ / 0-)

    It's not like they use great judgement as it is with what they put on them...sigh...

    Welcome to our bluegrass state...

  •  I don't like it, but (0+ / 0-)

    it's a First Amendment issue.  If KY issues custom plates for anything else, they have no choice but to allow the Confederate plates.    Anything else is a suppression of speech.  It's the price we must pay for our own freedom.

    You can't spell CRAZY without R-AZ.

    by rb608 on Fri Jun 10, 2011 at 08:11:06 PM PDT

    •  Not necessarily (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      ekyprogressive, rb608

      If the speech is advocating a criminal activity, and one could argue secession -- a form of treason, would be doing so. Then it could be blocked. Or are you saying we need to allow "Tired? Try Meth!" license plates?

      As soon as you have people telling other people how to live/think/behave because "god gave them authority" you effectively get dictators in funny looking hats.

      by ontheleftcoast on Fri Jun 10, 2011 at 08:30:32 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I'm sorry, but (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        ontheleftcoast

        that license plate comes nowhere near advocating criminal activity.  If KY allows any other organizations to have custom plates, then SOCV gets one too.   We had the same issue here in MD a few years back.  The First Amendment won.

        And regrettably, if there were a Methamphetamine Dealers Association, they'd be entitled to their own plate too.  

        You can't spell CRAZY without R-AZ.

        by rb608 on Sat Jun 11, 2011 at 05:20:23 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  I think it's an issue the courts should at least (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          rb608

          explore. Brandenburg doesn't set an actual limit on what is allowable under free speech, it merely calls into question whether the "Fire!" in a crowded theater should be acceptable.

          As soon as you have people telling other people how to live/think/behave because "god gave them authority" you effectively get dictators in funny looking hats.

          by ontheleftcoast on Sat Jun 11, 2011 at 02:14:10 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

    •  This represent something that actually happened. (0+ / 0-)

      This is intimidation and serves as a reminder what they want to happen again. Those of us who were born and raised down here, know exactly what this represents. Many like myself remember them v=basically worshiping and longing for the old south when we (I) saw old confederate uniforms in their houses.

      It's not free speech, it is intimidation. It's to drive home the point to blacks there, that a large percentage of us (whites) want to return to the south it once was. It's a glorification of a time when my ancestors were in a hell hole. If you lived down here and black, you'd know they intimidate us every chance they get.

      I say let them fly THEIR SH*T FLAG, let them have THEIR SH*T confederate license plate and let it serve as a reminder to all the younger blacks all over the country, that they haven't changed and hate us as much now as they did centuries ago. Maybe then, blacks will get off of their knees and stop all the praying (it hasn't changed anything) and realize the only way this crap will end is through violence. We've tried everything else with these people haven't changed. In Mississippi blacks are still being imprisoned at a very high rate. 76% of the prison system house black people (slaves). Only 4.6% of whites in Mississippi voted for Obama. Nothing has changed here and we know it.

      •  I pretty much agree. (0+ / 0-)

        Giving them their flag plates just brings them out into the open.   They clock isn't going to turn backward for them, no matter how hard they try.  I'd as soon have them show us who they were than just keeping their Confederate uniforms in the dark.

        You can't spell CRAZY without R-AZ.

        by rb608 on Sat Jun 11, 2011 at 05:22:54 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  I respect your point (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      rb608

      And embrace the first amendment.  

      There is still a minor issue related to the fact that Kentucky was never really a confederate state  As was related in one of the earlier posts.

      On September 4, 1861, Confederate Major General Leonidas Polk violated the Commonwealth's neutrality by ordering Brigadier General Gideon Johnson Pillow to occupy Columbus... In response to the Confederate invasion, Union Brigadier General Ulysses S. Grant left Cairo, Illinois and entered Paducah, Kentucky on September 6, which gave the Union control of the northern end of the New Orleans and Ohio Railroad and the mouth of the Tennessee River.
      Governor Magoffin denounced both sides for violating the Commonwealth's neutrality, calling for both sides to withdraw. However, on September 7, 1861, the General Assembly passed a resolution ordering the withdrawal of only Confederate forces. Magoffin vetoed the resolution, but both houses overrode the veto, and Magoffin issued the proclamation. The General Assembly ordered the Union flag to be raised over the state capitol in Frankfort, declaring its allegiance with the Union.

      I have no issue with them flying the flag in their front yard or putting a sticker on their car to highlight there ignorance.  I just oppose the state issuing plates for this purpose.

      You make great points though.

  •  That's all about Treason (7+ / 0-)

    why should anyone fly the treason flag anywhere in the United States of America?

    A man, a plan, a canal, Panama

    by Karl Rover on Fri Jun 10, 2011 at 08:12:43 PM PDT

  •  While it is not required (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    JDog42, Cassandra Waites

    I oppose it even though I generally support free speech.

    Despite there denials it truely is about a system that supports slavery.  I must condemn this on all levels.  They can fly the flag -- it just shouldnt be endorsed by being state issued.

  •  I don't get it. (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    ekyprogressive

    Kentucky sided with the Union in the Civil War.

    Ad hoc, ad loc and quid pro quo! So little time, so much to know!

    by KingofSpades on Fri Jun 10, 2011 at 08:53:03 PM PDT

  •  I always wonder what these Confederate (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    samdiener, JDog42, Rashaverak

    flag lovers would think if they took a trip to Germany and saw folks driving down the Autobahn with swastika license plates on their cars.
    After all....they've got ancestors to honor too, right?

    Republicans are like the Weeping Angels: Take your eyes off of them and they'll send you back in time.

    by jazzmaniac on Fri Jun 10, 2011 at 08:54:04 PM PDT

    •  The same mindset would display the Nazi plate (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      JDog42, Rashaverak

      here too.  In fact, they claim it for their own.

      There are no boundaries where hate and vile bigotries are concerned.


      I have spread my dreams under your feet; Tread softly, because you tread on my dreams. --William Butler Yeats

      by bronte17 on Sat Jun 11, 2011 at 02:17:02 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Holy heaps of hogshit! (3+ / 0-)
    The sponsoring group or its message and image can't discriminate based on race or “be construed, as determined by the cabinet, as an attempt to victimize or intimidate any person due to the person's race,”

    That's from the law that allows speciality plates. And the sponsors are actually trying to argue that this doesn't attempt to victimize or intimidate any person due to race?

    What a complete load of crap! Good on the KY legislature when that wrote that ruling. And to hell with the Sons of the Confederacy.

    As soon as you have people telling other people how to live/think/behave because "god gave them authority" you effectively get dictators in funny looking hats.

    by ontheleftcoast on Fri Jun 10, 2011 at 08:58:48 PM PDT

  •  And my grandfather (0+ / 0-)

    was in the Confederate army for six months (he was 15 when he enlisted).

    The way to combat noxious ideas is with other ideas. The way to combat falsehoods is with truth. - William O. Douglas

    by PSzymeczek on Fri Jun 10, 2011 at 08:59:24 PM PDT

  •  This is why reconstruction ended much too soon. (4+ / 0-)

    They didn't get a chance to realize fully they had lost. Within a few years they were back doing basically the same thing they had done with all the hate they had after losing, and taking it out on recently freed blacks, putting them on plantations, taking all their rights through intimidation and death. So they never had to feel what a defeated people should have felt.

    It is actually outrageous that they would be pushing this crap 146 years after the civil war ended, especially considering they were traitors. In fact, during the revolutionary war, many of the southern states barely participated in the fight. Yes, there were small band, but they disbanded and many of them went back home to beat their slaves. The fact that Jefferson Davis solicited the help of the British (THEY DIDN'T COME) to help them fight the civil war against their own country, should have gotten many of them hanged for treason.

    If they do this, i hope people will at least have a choice to put this crap on their car or not. I'd hate to see  descendents of slave forced to put this license plate on their car. That would be like Jewish people forced to have a Nazi symbol on theirs.    

  •  This is fucking disgusting. (2+ / 0-)

    Being from Massachusetts I cannot understand their mindset. On my mother's side I actually have Cajun ancestors who left Louisiana who moved first to Quebec and then moved here to Massachusetts because they disagreed with slavery and wanted to fight for the Union and to liberate the slaves. These morons honor their "heritage" of an unrecognized country which existed for 4 years and that existed solely to protect the institution of slavery. Anyone who celebrates that is an abhorrent human being, and I have never bought, nor never will buy in to, these bullshit claims of "heritage." You are celebrating the enslavement of an entire race of people, and the battles fought to protect that system of enslavement. I have no problem with anyone being proud of their Southern heritage, but I have great disdain for anyone celebrating one of the most vile institutions that has ever existed in our country.

    Boig, el món és boig, però és nostre, i és millor d'entre els possibles.

    by bozepravde15 on Fri Jun 10, 2011 at 10:12:18 PM PDT

    •  Your ancestors actions clearly demonstrate that (0+ / 0-)

      ordinary people knew very well what evil was being perpetrated in the slave-owning South. I have no patience for the supposed argument that 150 years ago attitudes were different. In fact this licence plate issue is a reminder of the reverse truth - that 150 years later we can still find willing apologists for a despicable system. They might as well advocate putting the Nazi flag on the plates - white supremacists revere both.

  •  Silver lining: CSA plate = jerk detector (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    jan4insight, JDog42, ekyprogressive

    It's like the "In God We Trust" license plates in Indiana, which allow you to spot the cars being driven by assholes at 50 yards, long before the NRA stickers become visible.

    Obama: At least he gives a good speech.

    by Permanent Republican Minority on Fri Jun 10, 2011 at 11:56:36 PM PDT

    •  Indiana plate was NOT a specialty plate (0+ / 0-)

      The Indiana 'In God We Trust" plate was NOT a specialty plate. It is the DEFAULT plate if you do not get a specialty plate.

      We have one plate supporting environmental set aside money, with a nice eagle and sun on it. The other is a lower two digit "IN nn" Indiana University support plate. We both worked long term for IU, and a colleague at Alumni Assoc was able to track down one of the few available low digit plates and channel it to the license branch for me a few years ago.

      "You've got to be very careful if you don't know where you are going, because you might not get there." “When you come to the fork in the road, take it.” --Yogi Berra

      by HeartlandLiberal on Sat Jun 11, 2011 at 04:54:13 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  why write to a federal legislator? (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    ekyprogressive

    Davis has absolutely nothing to do with the Commonwealth's legislation, much less its licensing bureau and motor vehicles departments.

    The proper addressees might be:

    Bill Heise, Director
    Doug Sutton, Assistant Director
    Division of Driver Licensing
    200 Mero Street
    Frankfort, KY 40622

    grok the "edku" -- edscan's "revelation", 21 January 2009

    by N in Seattle on Sat Jun 11, 2011 at 12:27:11 AM PDT

  •  Kentucky Rivalry and Just Plain Stupidity (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    The Loose Cannon

    You know a citizen of Indiana, as a fan of the Hoosiers and Indiana University sports, it is always part of the fun to take part in humor or criticism directed at your traditional rivals, such as our fellow Americans in that state across the border and Ohio River to the south, Kentucky.

    But this just sort of makes that pale by comparison.

    Just for context, I grew up in Alabama, my teen years to college in the sixties, right in the middle of the Civil Rights Movement.

    And I know racist, revisionist history when I see it.

    The Civil War was an act of treason and sedition against the Union. It was fought to maintain slavery, the ownership of fellow human beings, who, individually and as family, were treated like breeding live stock, and used as cheap labor to produce high profits.

    Perhaps Kentucky could at least, if the proceed with this plate, put a slave in chains in one corner to at least get the message across a little more honestly.

    "You've got to be very careful if you don't know where you are going, because you might not get there." “When you come to the fork in the road, take it.” --Yogi Berra

    by HeartlandLiberal on Sat Jun 11, 2011 at 04:46:49 AM PDT

    •  I am debating wheher to post... (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      JDog42, lostinamerica, ekyprogressive

      My emails from the "commander" of the Sons of Confederate Veterens.

      I wrote to them to express my contempt.  The replies I received back from them are a disturbing revisionist history lesson.  It is clear to me at least that confederate philosophy is alive and well in the 21st century.

      I feel it is necessary to speak out against this -- and appreciate your comments of support

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