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Apparently the rec'd diary earlier in the day warning against rural prejudice pissed the wrong people off and so they've thrown their support behind an ignorant diary doing just the same .

This is a perfect example of why that earlier diary should have gotten more attention.

Farmers don't fall into the typical category of Republican or Democrat.

They love hand-outs. Subsidies rock to a farmer. Though they'll have no problem complaining about government programs designed to help others. Welfare for me, but not for thee.

Immigration is a different issue. Farmers fall into a similar category as the Chamber of Commerce, who despite its overwhelming right-wing agenda, would warm a progressive's heart if the only issue to come up is illegal immigration.

Farmers are in that group. They know what they need to make their operation work. They like immigrants. REALLY like immigrants. They prefer them.

On a farm, there can be no slow day. Those crops need to come out, those animals need to be fed or milked. No calling in sick/hungover. No days off. A level of dedication that isn't available on a large scale in the natural-borne population.

In short: the farmers knew better.

Yeah, in general they're Republican on a lot of other issues.

Socially conservative. Guns. And I will admit a fair amount of racial prejudice per capita.

But they didn't advocate for draconian immigration policy.

Say that's what they get for not seeing through Republican bullshit. The naivete charge is wide open.

But to say that this is what they wanted isn't reality-based.


I know the diarist said this:

I'm not happy that Georgia's farmers are currently hurting

But they also said this:

I have zero sympathy for Georgia farmers.  I hope it fucking hurts like hell, guys.  You BLOODY WELL ASKED FOR IT.

... so don't give me the crap that they addressed this point.

Originally posted to member of the msm on Thu Jun 23, 2011 at 09:30 AM PDT.

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Comment Preferences

  •  All they have to do is pay a decent wage (4+ / 0-)

    and they'll have workers.  Remember McCain talking about how people wouldn't want to be picking lettuces for $50 an hour?

    My response was "Hell yeah I'll pick lettuces for $50 an hour."

    "Nothing in all the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity." --M. L. King "You can't fix stupid" --Ron White

    by zenbassoon on Wed Jun 22, 2011 at 08:18:29 PM PDT

    •  In my area of the world (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      the fan man, MartyM

      They're paying $12/hr... more than I'm currently making.

      Granted, this is Minnesota, and everything seems to be different up here, but I think the point stands.

      •  That $12/hour is short term... maybe a month or (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        James Allen, worldlotus

        two in a given season.

        Don't squander your youth. You never can buy it back.

        by fredlonsdale on Wed Jun 22, 2011 at 08:36:36 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Georgia produce rotting in the fields... (3+ / 0-)
        6/22/11......Georgia is having mixed results with a new program replacing migrant farm workers with probationers.

        Republican Gov. Nathan Deal started the program after farmers complained a crackdown on illegal immigrants was scaring away the mostly Latino workers needed to harvest labor-intensive crops like blueberries and cucumbers.

        The first probationers started work last week at a cucumber farm. Probationer Robert Dawson says he thinks the program is a good idea and farmers should have been hiring legal U.S. residents all along. But he was one of few to spend more than eight hours in the fields.

        Crew leader Benito Mendez says most of the probationers wouldn't work a full day in the heat or keep pace with his Hispanic crews. He says on two days, all the probationers quit by mid-afternoon.

        GOP = Goodluck Old People

        by MartyM on Thu Jun 23, 2011 at 09:53:06 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  In Cold Blood. (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Which of the following linked former Kansas State Penitentiary inmates, Dick Hickock and Perry Smith, to Herbert Clutter, the prosperous owner of River Valley Farm?  

          Hickock's former cellmate had worked for Clutter as a farm hand.. Ten days after hearing about the Clutter family murders, Floyd Wells, who eleven years earlier had worked briefly for Herb Clutter, came forward with a shocking tale. Wells, an inmate at the Kansas State Penitentiary in Lansing, had (in June and part of July 1959) shared a cell with Dick Hickock, an inmate scheduled for parole in August 1959. Wells told Hickock all about the Clutter family and River Valley Farm. Wells told Hickock that there was a safe in the office in Clutter's house, and that Clutter had said it cost $10,000.00 a week to run the farm. Hickock became fixated on robbing Clutter and talked constantly of how he and Perry Smith (whom Wells had never met) were going to rob the place, tie everybody up, and shoot them. When Wells heard of the Clutter family murders, he knew that Hickock had carried out his plan. Wells collected a $1,000.00 reward and was given early prison release for coming forward.

          Notice: This Comment © 2011 ROGNM

          by ROGNM on Thu Jun 23, 2011 at 10:01:25 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

    •  Many young people today don't want a job. (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      They want a career.  Toiling in someone else's fields isn't a part of that.

      "Intolerance is something which belongs to the religions we have rejected." - J.J. Rousseau -6.38, -4.15

      by James Allen on Wed Jun 22, 2011 at 09:53:25 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  I believe the $50 an hour referred to piece rate (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      JTinDC, worldlotus

      workers, and I am pretty sure that you would have to pick one heck of a lot of heads of lettuce to make anything like that.

      But there is no denying that exceptional piece rate workers can make a lot of money in some select cases.

      But the thing many people just do not realize is how hard agricultural work can be. The real manual labor, hoeing, thinning, harvesting can be grueling, debilitating, soul-sucking, just downright unpleasant work and (as the commenter below notes) it is not a job that someone aspires to, but at the very least it should pay a decent living wage.  

    •  but would you pick lettuce for, say, $7.25/hour? (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      JTinDC, ivorybill, worldlotus

      Here's a knife.  You don't have to answer now...try it out first for about 30 minutes and then answer.

      "In a nation ruled by swine, all pigs are upwardly mobile." Hunter S. Thompson

      by Keith930 on Thu Jun 23, 2011 at 09:40:44 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  They can't have it both ways (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    MikePhoenix, Eric K

    Don't tell me they love the Mexicans working on their farms.  And have we heard them out opposing these laws?  Doubt it.  They don't get to hold onto their racial prejudice, say nothing, and then when it's too late, say, hey, I need them!

    Too late.  They should have made their voices heard (assuming what you say is true).

    Republicans: Taking the country back ... to the 19th century

    by yet another liberal on Wed Jun 22, 2011 at 08:39:03 PM PDT

  •  A high level of dedication? (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    Is that what you call exploitation?

    •  Getting people to show up to work (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      the fan man

      is not exploitation. It's what is expected of an employee.

      They're getting paid fairly decently, at least in my area.

      Kind of crappy of you to call them 'exploited' just because they're good workers.

      •  Nothing Says Dedicated (0+ / 0-)

        like dying in a field from heat exhaustion, being denied breaks relative to working conditions, being doused with body rotting pesticides while not wearing protective gear, or crammed into to tiny, filthy cinder block rooms—it's not like they commute.

        Actually, they are incredibly dedicated even before they even start work.  We find them along our borders, washing up on our shores, or falling out of plane wheel wells.

        They're desperate.  Despite the crappy treatment we give them, they still keep coming because it's their only hope.  A desperate person does not have freedom of choice.  He robs a bank for a dollar to get health care.

        When agriculture hires through the LEGAL regulated labor market, then there will be a basis to discuss dedication and fair wages.  Prices will go up, but people can grow some of the food they consume or grow trade plants like herbs to mitigate.

        Farmers wanted to have their cake and eat it too.  In the process they screwed themselves.  Most of them probably voted on the gun issue and didn't think about anything else.  Eh, I know a few who did.  The good news is they are having second thoughts and questioning.  People do need to shift gears from gloating to helping.  All farmers will remember who helped them out during tough times.

  •  It's simply the eternal conundrum of the (7+ / 0-)

    typical agricultural community:  how to balance traditional support for most right-wing values while trying to defending those economic-based interests that are most important to them.  There isn't any natural tension between traditional Republican office-seekers and the agricultural community: lower taxes, less regulation, less red tape, "bootstrap" lifestyle values, and all that.  A lot of the other stuff was pretty much based on the old "a wink and a nod" philosophy, were the ag community understood that those office seekers would rail against illegal immigration but not ever do anything "stupid"...

    Sentiments expressed as "you got what you deserved" are, to my mind, somewhat politically immature, both from any long view of how things have worked and from the standpoint of trying to recruit folks to one's own side of the argument.  Gloating over someone else's misfortune based on a single issue like this isn't a way to win hearts and minds...

    "In a nation ruled by swine, all pigs are upward mobile..." - Dr. Hunter S. Thompson

    by Jack K on Wed Jun 22, 2011 at 09:40:13 PM PDT

  •  Thank you, covered most of the points I would (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    member of the msm

    have raised.

    Man is a Reasoning Animal. Such is the claim. I think it is open to dispute. - Mark Twain

    by the fan man on Thu Jun 23, 2011 at 03:39:01 AM PDT

  •  I didn't like the tone of either (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    ivorybill, Catesby

    of those diaries.

    I get what both are trying to say, it was just the way they said it.

  •  It's not Ruralphobia (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Roadbed Guy, Miggles, KMc

    It's the amazement of seeing people vote against their own interests, whether urban, or rural, or anything else.

    Those farmers have political ideas that they would LIKE to see politicians support and ideas that they NEED to have politicians support.

    In this case, they picked the LIKES over the NEEDS, and shouldn't be surprised about the concequences.

  •  Having grown up on a farm (4+ / 0-)

    I understand exactly what you say.  Farmers and rural folks in general are hard to categorize politically.  Government regulation is not one of their favorite things, but they don't like banks and they friggin' HATE Wall Street.  Regulate 'em?  Damn Right!

    They have a "leave me alone" attitude that can acutally work well on social issues like gay rights as long as some religious asshat doesn't get them all whipped into a frenzy about sodomites going to hell.

    They understand that government intervention is necessary (the aforementioned farm subsidies) and many of them work part-time in trades that would benefit from a little protectionism now and then.

    As to immigration, I think you'll find that the farmers in Georgia knew fully well that this was going to happen and they were probably opposed to it.

    What doesn't help is for places like DKos and other websites to constantly find reasons to divide groups that we really should be uniting.

    •  This: (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      member of the msm, rodentrancher
      What doesn't help is for places like DKos and other websites to constantly find reasons to divide groups that we really should be uniting.

      I disliked the tone of that other diary.  Farmers are individuals - good ones and bad ones, and many farmers actually do see a need for sensible environmental and land conservation, as well as a fair deal for migrant farm labor.  They aren't all heartless greedy bastards.  Some are; most aren't.

      "Sedimentary people stay in one place. They only interact with other sedimentary people."

      by ivorybill on Thu Jun 23, 2011 at 10:25:50 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  From LI Farm Bureau (0+ / 0-)
    “Without a long-term resolution on immigration reform and a guest worker program, it places Long Island agriculture in a perilous situation,” Joseph Gergela, executive director of the Long Island Farm Bureau, said. “Farmers, vineyards, tourism, hospitality and building trades all depend upon an available work force, and they would like it to be a legal workforce. This issue affects our entire East End economy.”

    I've heard Joe Gergela speak several times, he is consistent in pointing out that he seeks employees from the non-immigrant community, but no dice.

  •  Just call other peoples' work ignorant. (0+ / 0-)

    Don't give us any data to back up your claim. That ignorant diary will get rant of the year and will deserve it.

    Rural folks voted those teabagging idiots into office and now they're getting what they voted for.

    It rubs the loofah on its skin or else it gets the falafel again.

    by Fishgrease on Thu Jun 23, 2011 at 10:59:02 AM PDT

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