In reaction to this exchange during the Petreaus Confirmation hearings, Keith Olbermann has called for Obama to Pull His Nomination
Udall asked, “do you see torture any differently in a CIA context than in a military context?”
But Petraeus instead pivoted to the TV-ready “ticking time bomb” scenario, and said torture might be justified if you have a “special situation” where an “individual in your hands who you know has placed a nuclear device under the Empire State Building. It goes off in 30 minutes, he has the codes to turn it off.” Then he urged legislators to consider crafting such an exception into the law:
Olbermann: Torture is Useless, for the simple reason that people will tell you anything, whether true or not, to get you to stop. A Civilian that doesn't understand this is merely foolish, uninformed or stupid. A military man or government official who doesn't understand this is positive menace to existence of the nation.
Let me point out something that should be even more chilling than Petraeus statements, apparently neither he - nor Keith - realizes that Congress doesn't need to create any such "Exception", because they already did that!
Let us recall that John McCain set us all straight on whether Waterboarding KSM eventually led us - 9 years later - to killing Osama Bin Laden.
What we do know, is that when KSM was asked about the crucial courier - He Lied! So apparently as long as we have a 9-Year Fuse on that Bomb, Waterboarding is going to work just great.
Let us also recall that when torture was used against Ibn Sheik al Libi in Egypt to determine if Saddam had any involvement in 9-11 he Lied to us too and helped generate yet another of the incorrect rationales for the Iraq War (besides the Niger Forgeries and well paid lies and distortions of Curveball)
The core of Petreaus premise is All Fail. In a country filled with IED's there is always a ticking time bomb about to go off. But as interrogator Matthew Alexander has stated clearly: using force and pain doesn't get you truthful accurate answers - it gets you Lies.
The weird part is that Petreaus clearly didn't feel this way before. In 2007 he said this:
The top U.S. commander in Iraq admonished his troops regarding the results of an Army survey that found that many U.S military personnel there are willing to tolerate some torture of suspects and unwilling to report abuse by comrades.
"This fight depends on securing the population, which must understand that we -- not our enemies -- occupy the moral high ground," Army Gen. David H. Petraeus wrote in an open letter dated May 10 and posted on a military Web site.
He rejected the argument that torture is sometimes needed to quickly obtain crucial information. "Beyond the basic fact that such actions are illegal, history shows that they also are frequently neither useful nor necessary," he stated.
I'm not sure why this shift has happened, but I have to say it's a dangerous change - and the main reason why is that as of right now, under current law, there really isn't anything blocking Petreaus from ignoring his previous protestations and implementing a new regime of torture.
We can look at the case of Bradley Manning to show us why not.
Obama: On private Manning, I asked the Pentagon whether the procedures surrounding his confinement were appropriate and if his treatment meets our basic standards and they assured me that they are
Now, the Pentagon has basically claimed that they were keeping Manning in Solitary Confinement for his own "protection" (from other Soldiers who support War Crimes against Journalists?) and he has now been removed from solitary at Quantico to a more general population at Leavenworth while he awaits trial.
What this displays is a glaring gaping hole in Obama's "No Torture" stance which he initiated on his first day in office by signing an executive order requiring the CIA to abide by the same rules in handling and interrogating detainees as the Army Field Manual.
The Army Field Manual already has some rather large glaring exceptions in it just like Gen Petreaus suggested it should.
While the current Army Field Manual does not allow waterboarding, it does include approved techniques that constitute torture. One glaring problem with the executive order on torture is the implicit approval of the current AFM as it stands. The Army Field Manual is a guidebook for U.S. interrogators, meant to set a standard in accordance with the law. However, it has serious shortcomings - particularly following a Bush-era 2006 revision that attempted to legitimize some of the abuses taking place at Guantanamo and elsewhere.
Appendix M of the Army Field Manual - a new section introduced in 2006, applicable only to "unlawful combatants," the category applied to detainees in Guantanamo, at secret CIA prisons, and elsewhere - allows the use of techniques such as prolonged isolation, sleep deprivation, sensory deprivation, and inducing fear and humiliation of prisoners. These techniques, especially when used in combination as permitted by the AFM, constitute cruel, inhuman and degrading treatment, and in some cases, torture. These techniques have caused documented, long-lasting psychological and physical harm and were condemned by a bipartisan congressional report released last month, as well as by the Bush-appointed head of the military commissions at Guantanamo
.
So naturally when Obama asked the Pentagon (who were keeping Manning in sleep and sensory deprivation conditions) naturally they would answer "Everything is fine an appropriate - under the Army Field Manuel as left to us by the Bush Administration - it is (to them) "appropriate" because it's all perfectly "legal" now.
Maybe Obama doesn't realize this as he wasn't yet in Congress when this bill passed in 2006, but he needs to be TOLD - quickly.
Also another giant crack in the bulwark against War Crimes, as I have often mentioned, are some of other modifications that were made to the Torture Statue by the Military Commisions Act in 2006, changing it to match the Bybee Standard (Torture isn't Torture until the risk of Organ Failure or Death)
The term `serious physical pain or suffering'
means bodily injury that involves--
``(I) a substantial risk of death;
``(II) extreme physical pain;
``(III) a burn or physical disfigurement of a
serious nature (other than cuts, abrasions, or
bruises); or
``(IV) significant loss or impairment of the
function of a bodily member, organ, or mental
faculty.
This is now THE LAW for War Crimes under 18 USC 2441.
(A) Torture.— The act of a person who commits, or conspires or attempts to commit, an act specifically intended to inflict severe physical or mental pain or suffering (other than pain or suffering incidental to lawful sanctions) upon another person within his custody or physical control for the purpose of obtaining information or a confession, punishment, intimidation, coercion, or any reason based on discrimination of any kind.
And Torture under 18 USC 2340:
(2) “severe mental pain or suffering” means the prolonged mental harm caused by or resulting from—
(A) the intentional infliction or threatened infliction of severe physical pain or suffering;
(B) the administration or application, or threatened administration or application, of mind-altering substances or other procedures calculated to disrupt profoundly the senses or the personality;
(C) the threat of imminent death; or
(D) the threat that another person will imminently be subjected to death, severe physical pain or suffering, or the administration or application of mind-altering substances or other procedures calculated to disrupt profoundly the senses or personality;
As you can see, this list doesn't include what was done to Bradley Manning and wouldn't include what might to similarly done to any other "high value detainee" or even an American Soldier who sufficiently PISSES OFF the Military with their actions.
This is also why the current Grand Jury convened under the Special Prosecutor investigating CIA Torture - can really only look into cases where the subject died, because anything short of that, pretty much isn't a crime.
What's worse is that even if Obama recognizes this as a problem, which from what we can currently see - he doesn't - Congress seems to be working overtime to drive him backward, blocking his attempts to have KSM tried in a regular civilian court while Blocking and Defunding the Gitmo Replacement. which would immediately close at least one of the existing loopholes.
Obama needs to do more than just sign an executive order, that can easily be reversed by the next President, then brush his hands and walk away from the torture issue as if the issue and case were "closed".
It. Is. NOT.
Obama needs to take down the Petreaus Nomination, and he's needs to start pushing back Hard against Congress continuing attempts to water down American Principles, by slowly slouching towards despotism. He and Congress need to REPEAL the Military Commissions Act!
But in the current Din of cries for Obama to "Come out of the Closet" to support Same-Sex Marriage, or to jump feet first into the State-by-State War on Women - both of which are worthy fights, but frankly haven't come across his desk lately while this has and the time clock on the Petreaus Nomination is already ticking - just how likely is he to hear the cries to fully and finally restore American Honor by putting a complete End To ALL FORMS OF TORTURE once and for all?
Failing that, we at least need to Push the Senate Intelligence Committee NOW to Send a Message to Petreaus with several protest votes to show that Torture Will Never Again be Tolerated. Ever.
Vyan