Every once in a while, the truth gets through.
On the Jim Bohannon show last night, the guest of honor was Grover Norquist. I got the number and called. I will allow you to judge the results.
Jim Bohannon: "Here's Jesse in New York. Hello, Jesse."
Jesse: "Hello, Jim. Thanks for having me on."
Jim Bohannon: "Sure."
Jesse: "Uh, Grover, I wanted to ask you, you stand for capitalism, for deregulation, for unfettered free markets, for low tax rates for corporations and for tax cuts for the rich, as well as spending cuts that will reduce the standard of living for everyone else, I wanted to ask you, are you trying to drown the government in a bathtub or the working class?"
My part in the audio starts at 1:43, but listen to the whole thing, the first four callers make sure Grover doesn't get a single softball.
Here's audio, plus the transcript and more below the fold.
Jim Bohannon: "Here's Jesse in New York. Hello, Jesse."
Jesse: "Hello, Jim. Thanks for having me on."
Jim Bohannon: "Sure."
Jesse: "Uh, Grover, I wanted to ask you, you stand for capitalism, for deregulation, for unfettered free markets, for low tax rates for corporations and for tax cuts for the rich, as well as spending cuts that will reduce the standard of living for everyone else, I wanted to ask you, are you trying to drown the government in a bathtub or the working class?"
Jim Bohannon: "And what exactly is that supposed to mean, Jesse? Or, do you have any, any actual serious question here?
Jesse: "Well, the serious question is that under the Clinton Administration the rich paid a higher tax percentage and we created 23 million jobs, under the Bush Administration we had the worst job creation record since Herbert Hoover while creating massive deficits, so my question is, do we think really think that lowering tax rates is going to reduce or create anything other than it already has, massive unemployment and high deficits?"
Grover Norquist: "Sure, well, you do an interesting thing there, you talk about the Clinton years versus the Bush years, and I would encourage everyone when you think about this to understand, um, President's have the veto, the House and the Senate pass tax bills and they pass spending bills, and, it's very important to get a better understanding of what's happening politically, take a look at who runs Congress first, and who runs the Presidency. There were eight years under Clinton, then we'll get to Bush. First two years you had a Democratic House, a Democratic Senate, Clinton, House, Senate, President, all Democrat, first two years. Stock market didn't move, unemployment didn't move, employment didn't move. Then the last six years when the Republicans captured the House and Senate you had a tremendous jump in employment, the stock market, and GDP, also because they cut the capital gains tax, so the eight years of Clinton were actually two years of united Democratic government and six years of divided government."
Jim Bohannon: "All right, now then, I want to be able to finish that argument cogently, so we will take a break and be back with the next part after this . . . "
Jim Bohannon: "Welcome back to the Jim Bohannon Show, we're talking to Grover Norquist, the President and Founder of the group Americans For Tax Reform, online at atr.org, and we had a challenge to you regarding the relative merits of job creation and economic expansion under Presidents' Clinton and George W. Bush, and you were noting the fact that these Presidencies can be divided into several categories, you were talking about President Clinton, in the, starting with the period where he had Democratic control of both houses of congress, but go ahead."
Grover Norquist: "Sure. With Clinton, first two years Democrats ran the House, Senate, Presidency, last six years Republicans had the House and the Senate, last six years you had growth, first two years you didn't, uh, so there was a difference and it was Republican tax and spending policies that did well. Under Bush, the first two years, or for eighteen months of that, the Democrats had control of the Senate, and you had September 11th, but most important from 2003 to 2007 you had a united Republican government with a Republican House, Senate and Presidency, unlike the first two years. During that period you had strong economic growth, Republicans cut the capital gains tax, they cut individual rates, and they cut taxes on businesses, in the last two years when Democrats took the House and the Senate, Bush was still President, that's when the economic collapse happened, that's when the stock market went down, that's when unemployment went up, you really have a difference. Watch Congress, Congress matters, and that's why things have, are going to get a little bit better with a Republican House, but won't really turn around until the Senate changes as well."
Total DODGE on the surplus/deficit question. TOTAL dodge.
This is ABSURD. Everything bad is due to taxes and Democrats, even facts.
Image from sodahead.com
According to Grover, all the good things under Clinton was because of Republicans, all the bad things under Bush is because of Democrats. Seriously?
Wow! With that logic, Grover is NEVER WRONG. And it's like watching a child who never sees the clouds coming and therefore can't understand why it is raining, things started slow under Clinton BECAUSE he was cleaning up Bush Senior's mess, things are a mess now because of the disaster after disaster after disaster that took place during George W. Bush's Presidency. To think, according to Grover and his ilk, that nothing under a President like Bush matters going into the next Presidency, none of his decisions have any long term consequences against Bush, it immediately becomes the fault of the Democrat.
So here is The Norquist Formula for never being wrong
Dem President + Dem House + Dem Senate (1993-1995) = everything is Dems fault, GOP obstruction had nothing to do with it
Dem President + GOP House + GOP Senate (1995-2001) = everything good that happens is because of Republicans
GOP President + GOP House + Dem Senate (2001-2003) = everything good is because of GOP, bad is because of Dems
GOP President + GOP House + GOP Senate (2003-2007) = nothing but good memories
GOP President + Dem House + Dem Senate = (2007-2009) the entire collapse is the Democrats fault
Dem President + Dem House + Dem Senate = (2009-2011) Bush never happened
Dem President + GOP House + Dem Senate = (201-present) everything good is because of GOP, bad is because of Dems
Well, now that we have that sorted out, we can dispense with any other efforts at rational thought! I have a map to never being wrong. I gotta golden ticket!
Seriously, I could pick apart Grover's version of history all day.
But I was not alone in my efforts, not alone at all. Liberals literally took over this radio show, the first five questions to Grover Norquist were from liberals who challenged him on an array of facts and issues. In the right wing, sound proof echo chamber of the corporate media, we can get through!
The called before myself challenged Grover on the mention the fact that the Bush tax cuts are a huge part of our deficits and the fact that Obama paid for his healthcare plan, and he challenged them to name a single bill Obama has passed that wasn't paid for.
Republican verdict: ALL OF THEM
No, seriously. Reality can NOT reach them. They are as ideologically rigid to the far right as Ann Couler's strap on.
The next caller after I spoke asked why we would cut corporate taxes for huge corporations that pay NO taxes.
Republican verdict: I HATE FRANCE! CUT TAXES!
No, seriously. I'm not joking. France somehow is involved in the answer, which claims that America's corporate taxes are the highest in the world. If you hit a Republican in the face with a FACT like Bank of America pays ZERO TAXES, they will say NUH-UH and then tell you taxes are too high.
The next caller asks Grover about his bathtub and whether the government should keep us all from eating catfood when we can't afford health care. I laughed my ass off.
Awesomeness.
Liberals really kicked ass.
And it proves that liberal voices CAN penetrate the corporate media bubble. We are just going to have to force our way into the fortress of misinformation.
But going back to my conversation, though brief it was, with Grover Norquist.
You know what that thing that I brought up which Grover found interesting? It was because I placed blame on Republicans.
You see, the way Grover wants you to look at it is everything is the fault of Democrats and taxes.
The party of personal responsibility REFUSES to take personal responsibility for ANYTHING they do. The doublethink is strong in these ones. They can simultaneously believe it doesn't count if you are a Republican, than blame everything on Democrats, and then flip back to it only counts if you are a Republican when it suits them.
And any harm their policies might do to the working class? Nah, Grover doesn't want to talk about that.
And as to my question of who Grover wants to drown in his bathtub, the Government or the working class, that remained unanswered.
But damn did it feel good to say it.
Score one for the Truth
John Lennon was right, a working class hero is something to be.
You can purchase your copy of "Americana: By Jesse LaGreca" by making a contribution of your choice to me with Paypal
Peace and love to all
Yours truly, MoT
You can follow me on Twitter @JesseLaGreca