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Short Diary.  Yesterday, I heard President Obama's statement about the suspension of debt ceiling talks.  He included this quote: "We then offered an additional $650 billion in cuts to entitlement programs — Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security."  Any corporate media talking head or right wing Republican who has used the term "entitlement" to describe Social Security is astoundingly dishonest enough (that's like calling your 401K plan an entitlement program) but to hear Barack Obama try to pave the way for the theft of cash payroll deductions to fund tax cuts for billionaires by engaging in this type of flippant propaganda is mortifying.  I gave up on this guy a long time ago, any of you still trying to rationalize his behavior will have yet another kick in the teeth to explain away.  Good luck.  

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Comment Preferences

  •  Tip Jar (13+ / 0-)

    Sometimes, out of the most ordinary looking vessel can flow the most extraordinary wine.

    by normcash on Sat Jul 23, 2011 at 05:47:43 PM PDT

    •  And the clueless continue their whine and moan (5+ / 2-)

      without adding any substance to the debate.

      When it comes down to 60 votes, Olympia Snowe is little different from Jim Inhofe.

      by PrometheusSpeaks on Sat Jul 23, 2011 at 06:09:02 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  And this comment is substantive? n/t (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Farugia, davidincleveland

        Sometimes, out of the most ordinary looking vessel can flow the most extraordinary wine.

        by normcash on Sat Jul 23, 2011 at 06:17:38 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  How is this for some substance? (5+ / 0-)

        Stop fucking the working man and tax the fucking rich cocksuckers who have robbed our wages for over 30 years.  

        Our economy is thriving.  Productivity is high.  All of the fruits of the productivity go to Obama's rich friends.

        I want a raise, better working conditions and benefits and Obama does not want me to have them.

        Substantive enough?

        When the rose lies withered by the roadside don't try to negotiate the bloom.

        by Atilla the Honey Bunny on Sat Jul 23, 2011 at 07:46:01 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Oh you DID not. (0+ / 0-)

          Snap!!
            LOLs.
          Now it's BO's fault that you did not get a raise and benefits??
          Now it's BO's fault that your working conditions are not good?
           Holy crap.
          I guess he should come to your job and fix things!

          "Oh no...you changed your hair color? It's just so dark. You like it? And with your skin tone?" My Mom ♥ 12.25.2007 ------- A true sportsman is a hunter lost in the woods and out of ammo. ~Robert Brault

          by Christin on Sat Jul 23, 2011 at 08:38:13 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Actually I do blame him and Blue Dogs like you. (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            chimene, sphealey, davidincleveland

            You see Barack Obama does go to some workplaces and fixes everything.  Lloyd Blankfein's, Jamie Dimon's, workplaces are doing swimmingly well thanks to all of the fixing Barack Obama has fixed for their workplaces.

            Where you and I differ is that I actually believe that I am equal to Jamie Dimon and Lloyd Blankfein and deserve as much intervention as they have received.  And to display my pragmatic side I would settle for 1/100 the amount of fixing Obama's cronies got.

            I am a nurse.  Been one since 85.  My profession has been in international, national, regional and local shortage that entire time.  I am doing many more surgeries than in the past yet haven't had a raise in over a decade.  I work on my fucking feet for 12 hour shifts and deal with every catastrophe known to man on a daily basis.  I have wiped up more blood, vomit, bile, sputum, urine, feces, necrotic cancerous tissue, butt puss, brain, bone, bowel then you can even imagine.  And despite my humble vocation I still think I am equal to any of Obama's cronies who get his complete attention while I get none.

            I think I am. Man.  You think I am less than 1/100 of one.  And you call yourself a Democrat.

            When the rose lies withered by the roadside don't try to negotiate the bloom.

            by Atilla the Honey Bunny on Sat Jul 23, 2011 at 10:20:49 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

  •  It IS an "entitlement" (24+ / 0-)

    EVERYBODY pays in.

    EVERYBODY is ENTITLED to benefits.

    NO exceptions.

    Even the billionaires get Social Security.

    "Nothing in all the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity." --M. L. King "You can't fix stupid" --Ron White

    by zenbassoon on Sat Jul 23, 2011 at 05:48:56 PM PDT

    •  I guess (8+ / 0-)

      they must be buying into the Republican framing of entitlement program rather than understanding what an entitlement program is.

    •  Entitlement (7+ / 0-)

      Unfortunately, in political parlance, "entitlement" is a pejorative connoting a belief that one has the right to receive rewards over and above what one has contributed, hence the phrase "A sense of entitlement". The fact is, I have paid into the Social Security fund for forty years, during which time the money has been earning interest Whatever I ultimately receive, it will be my money being returned.  I am not "entitled" to it. It is owed to me.

      the only thing we have to fear is fear itself--nameless, unreasoning, unjustified terror... FDR first inaugural address

      by blogokvetsch on Sat Jul 23, 2011 at 06:13:54 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Only people who think that "in theory"... (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        seanwright, sewaneepat

        ...means "but not really" think this way.

      •  here's the definition from a comment below... (8+ / 0-)

        H.T. to citizenx

        Entitlement program
         The kind of government program that provides individuals with personal financial benefits (or sometimes special government-provided goods or services) to which an indefinite (but usually rather large) number of potential beneficiaries have a legal right (enforceable in court, if necessary) whenever they meet eligibility conditions that are specified by the standing law that authorizes the program.
         The beneficiaries of entitlement programs are normally individual citizens or residents, but sometimes organizations such as business corporations, local governments, or even political parties may have similar special "entitlements" under certain programs. The most important examples of entitlement programs at the federal level in the United States would include Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid, most Veterans' Administration programs, federal employee and military retirement plans, unemployment compensation, food stamps, and agricultural price support programs.

        America could have chosen to be the worlds doctor, or grocer. We choose instead to be her policeman. pity

        by cacamp on Sat Jul 23, 2011 at 06:45:21 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Legally, it's not owed to you. (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        citizenx, seanwright, Christin

        And that's part of why it's an entitlement rather than, say, an insurance program.

      •  That is a riddle worthy of the sphinx: (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        citizenx, gramofsam1

        "This is owed to me, yet I am not entitled to it."

        "Hope 2010 feels a lot different than Hope 2008. Tougher, deeper, more dearly bought." Femlaw, Hope 2010, September 8, 2010.

        by seanwright on Sat Jul 23, 2011 at 06:55:04 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  What is missing from the Social Security (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        lakehillsliberal, bluegrass50

        debate is the trillions of dollars of government IOU's that Social Security Trust Fund is holding from the U.S. Treasury. All U.S. Presidents going back to Johnson have been using money from the Social Security Trust Fund to finance America's small wars, keeping the real cost of these wars off of the nation's budget.

        The succesion of Presidents who dipped into the Social Security (SS) Trust Fund were both Democrats and Republicans. Casting SS as an "entitlement" program is the ultimate public lie and is put out deliberately to obscure the tremendous debt owed to SS from the United States of America. The real question that needs to aked is just when will the U. S. government repay all of  the debt that it  owes to the SS Trust Fund?

        •  This would not have been a problem except (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          kbman, Maverick80229

          for Bush, Clinton left the country in good shape to redeem those bonds, Bush made sure it was a problem.  He stole the future of millions of Americans and he and his whole administration deserve to be in jail.  Too bad Obama did not have the guts to do his job.

      •  Its only 50% your contribution (0+ / 0-)

        If you have been employed all those years (as opposed to self employed) then you employer has contributed 50% of the contribution, matching your contribution(6% of the total payrol apiece)  THAT'S why its such a great deal for you.
        If you've been self employed the whole time,you paid the whole 12%, not so good a deal..
        either way, it's yours---that  means youre entitled to it.

        Happy just to be alive

        by exlrrp on Sun Jul 24, 2011 at 07:12:23 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  The SS act has the (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      sewaneepat, gramofsam1, exlrrp

      actual term entitlement in its wording.  There is nothing wrong with entitlement, just as you say.

      There is nothing wrong with Liberal, there is nothing wrong with safety net, or any of the other terms that Repubs have turned into pejoratives.

      *the blogger formerly known as shirlstars

      by Shirl In Idaho on Sat Jul 23, 2011 at 10:29:46 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  that is not how the term is used (0+ / 0-)

      by the right wing framers and the media.

  •  The word isn't the problem. (12+ / 0-)

    This is such a trivial debate. Entitlement is a perfectly valid word to describe these programs.

    People seem to be up in arms over this because the right wing noise machine has tried to make "entitlement" a dirty word, like "liberal".

    "Social insurance" is the term I favor, but this just isn't a big deal.

    What Obama's threatening to do to the programs is the real problem. Keep your eye on that prize.

  •  Ah, Geez - - (6+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Farugia, Tanya, mimi9, TheMomCat, kbman, sphealey

    Whan half the people at Daily Kos start defending
    Obama's use of the term "entitlement" for Social Security - -

    We is fucked - seriously.

    <<<>>>

    Of course, because Jane Hamsher is saying this -
    You is fucked - seriously.

    •  apologize johhnygunn! LOLs. (0+ / 0-)

      apologize to your hero, bernie sanders.
      and then apologize to the entire site.
      and the world.
      and the universe.
      for being wrong again,

      * [new] From Senator Bernie Sanders' Website (4+ / 0-)

      BENNINGTON -- Vermont Sen. Bernie Sanders has created a Social Security caucus in the Senate to defend the entitlement program from anticipated attacks.

      Link
      by citizenx on Sat Jul 23, 2011 at 09:25:46 PM EDT

      [ Parent | Reply to This |  Recommend   Hide ]

      "Oh no...you changed your hair color? It's just so dark. You like it? And with your skin tone?" My Mom ♥ 12.25.2007 ------- A true sportsman is a hunter lost in the woods and out of ammo. ~Robert Brault

      by Christin on Sat Jul 23, 2011 at 08:43:16 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  I swear, this place is getting dumber (14+ / 0-)
    Entitlement program
    The kind of government program that provides individuals with personal financial benefits (or sometimes special government-provided goods or services) to which an indefinite (but usually rather large) number of potential beneficiaries have a legal right (enforceable in court, if necessary) whenever they meet eligibility conditions that are specified by the standing law that authorizes the program.

    The beneficiaries of entitlement programs are normally individual citizens or residents, but sometimes organizations such as business corporations, local governments, or even political parties may have similar special "entitlements" under certain programs. The most important examples of entitlement programs at the federal level in the United States would include Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid, most Veterans' Administration programs, federal employee and military retirement plans, unemployment compensation, food stamps, and agricultural price support programs.
     


    Link
    •  LMAO... (3+ / 0-)

      So we link to some guy who renders an opinion about Soc Sec and lumps it in with food stamps and that's your argument and you call me "dumb".  Why is Obama even TALKING or negotiating about this?  What does he need to do to take the scales from your eyes? Anyone enabling this guy at this point is "dumb".

      Sometimes, out of the most ordinary looking vessel can flow the most extraordinary wine.

      by normcash on Sat Jul 23, 2011 at 06:13:38 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Social Security is an Entitlement Program (8+ / 0-)

        Now you may not like the way that word has been maligned and twisted but it does not change the fact tha Social Security is an Entitlement Program.

        Throwing a fit because the POTUS calls an Entitlement Program an Entitlement Program may be a new low for this place and that is saying a lot.

      •  From Senator Bernie Sanders' Website (5+ / 0-)
        BENNINGTON -- Vermont Sen. Bernie Sanders has created a Social Security caucus in the Senate to defend the entitlement program from anticipated attacks.

        Link
      •  No matter how upset you may be, the reality is (7+ / 0-)

        That it is an entitlement. Read the freaking Social Security Act of 1935 where it says"are entitled". Medicare uses entitlement language over 100 times. It means you and all eligible people receive it as a right. It also means that it is not discretionary spending, it is mandated. That means the gov't has to pay all claims, no matter the cost, as opposed to only spending a certain amount which is appropriated.

        Educate yourself. Read a social work text book or a legal text book on entitlements.

        Because you might not like other entitlement programs such as food stamps does not make it something other than what it is.

        You can't scare me, I'm sticking to the Union - Woody Guthrie

        by sewaneepat on Sat Jul 23, 2011 at 07:02:47 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  You ignore the obvious... (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Atilla the Honey Bunny

          Obama is repeating right wing rhetoric.  Soon he will be referring to the "Democrat" party.

          Sometimes, out of the most ordinary looking vessel can flow the most extraordinary wine.

          by normcash on Sat Jul 23, 2011 at 07:15:49 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  It is not RW rhetoric. (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            citizenx, gramofsam1

            Can you not read what people are telling you. It has a legal, freaking meaning. It is what it is.

            Do you want scientists not use the word "Theory" anymore as in "Theory of Evolution" or "Theory of Relativity?" After all, it is a RW talking point that it is "just a theory." After all we use the word colloquially to mean a hunch, rather than a scientific theory with a specific meaning just like "sense of entitlement" is used to convey something different from an entitlement program. (Note also for entitlement to have the meaning you are ascribing to it, you either have to add "sense of" to distinguish from real  or you have to sneer when you say it to make sure people are understanding that you are using it as its opposite.)

            Look up the meaning: An entitlement is a benefit provided by law to a class of people or entities.

            Here is the Social Security Act of 1935:

            "SEC. 202. (a) Every qualified individual (as defined in section 210) shall be entitled to receive, with respect to the period beginning on the date he attains the age of sixty-five, or on January 1, 1942, whichever is the later, and ending on the date of his death, an old-age benefit (payable as nearly as practicable in equal monthly installments) as follows:...

            When it says "entitled" in the bill, that makes it an entitlement and it means that you have a legal right to the benefit, enforceable in court. It also means that the government cannot just appropriate a certain amount and when that money is spent, that's all the money. That is what happens in programs that are not entitlements.

            So you are ignoring the obvious: you have bought into RW rhetoric that says black is white. People who receive Social Security benefits and Medicare know they are entitlements and are damned happy that is the case.. Otherwise, Congress could appropriate only a set amount and every surgery and doctor's appointments for us would be scheduled for Jan.1 so we could get care before the money ran out.

            If you want to learn something, read this article which illustrates why Medicaid is only a weak entitlement as opposed to Medicare and Social Security (among others) which are strong entitlements.

            There are enough things to be concerned about without having to be upset when people use the term correctly.

            You can't scare me, I'm sticking to the Union - Woody Guthrie

            by sewaneepat on Sun Jul 24, 2011 at 03:14:45 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

  •  I agree that the RW has managed to (7+ / 0-)

    make "entitlement" sound to some as distasteful as "liberal" has become to the Right, but it is a word which describes SS.

    It's helpful to remember and perhaps re-consider that the annual limit of contribution is $106,800.  I personally think this cap should be raised.

    http://www.ssa.gov/...

    Contribution and Benefit Base

    Social Security's Old-Age, Survivors, and Disability Insurance (OASDI) program limits the amount of earnings subject to taxation for a given year. The same annual limit also applies when those earnings are used in a benefit computation. This limit generally increases with increases in the national average wage index. We call this annual limit the contribution and benefit base, or taxable maximum. For earnings in 2011, this base is $106,800.

    May the forces of evil become confused on the way to your house. George Carlin

    by msmacgyver on Sat Jul 23, 2011 at 06:09:41 PM PDT

    •  And Obama repeating this rhetoric... (0+ / 0-)

      and amplifying it is something that you are comfortable with?  

      Sometimes, out of the most ordinary looking vessel can flow the most extraordinary wine.

      by normcash on Sat Jul 23, 2011 at 07:20:12 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  The President isn't "repeating this rhetoric", (6+ / 0-)

        he is using the correct term.  

        http://www.auburn.edu/...

        A Glossary of Political Economy Terms - Department of Political Science - Auburn University

        Entitlement program

        The kind of government program that provides individuals with personal financial benefits (or sometimes special government-provided goods or services) to which an indefinite (but usually rather large) number of potential beneficiaries have a legal right (enforceable in court, if necessary) whenever they meet eligibility conditions that are specified by the standing law that authorizes the program. The beneficiaries of entitlement programs are normally individual citizens or residents, but sometimes organizations such as business corporations, local governments, or even political parties may have similar special "entitlements" under certain programs. The most important examples of entitlement programs at the federal level in the United States would include Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid, most Veterans' Administration programs, federal employee and military retirement plans, unemployment compensation, food stamps, and agricultural price support programs.

        Just because a word is used in a disparaging way, i.e., "liberal", doesn't take away its meaning.

        You might feel more comfortable about the word "entitlement" by clicking on the link and reading the entire text.

        May the forces of evil become confused on the way to your house. George Carlin

        by msmacgyver on Sat Jul 23, 2011 at 07:32:04 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  Bye bye? n/t (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Christin

    Al Queda and Chinook salmon have a lot in common. Everything is fine until the seals show up.

    by Grannus on Sat Jul 23, 2011 at 06:12:50 PM PDT

  •  My 401k is property I own. (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Khun David, Christin

    My future social security benefits are something I expect but don't have legal title to.  

    •  Yes, but when folks here refer (0+ / 0-)

      to SS as a "legal right," they're referring to the textbook definition of entitlements, whereby anyone eligible is legally entitled to receive the benefit. That shouldn't be confused with "I'm entitled to get it when I retire" -- which I think is your point. But it is, in fact, a legal right (until the law is changed, which of course can happen at any time).

      Families is where a nation finds hope, where wings take dream.

      by cardinal on Sat Jul 23, 2011 at 07:15:49 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Some of the confusion is that there are actually (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    FG, kenlac, msmacgyver

    two rather distinct kinds of entitlement programs. In general an entitlement program is any program where you are entitled to your benefits by operation of law regardless of the government's ability or desire to pay for them. Non-entitlement programs would then be programs where you might get something, you might not. Depends on how much money Congress decides to put into the till at any given time.

    But the real question comes down to whether it's an insurance-based entitlement program or a welfare-based entitlement program. The insurance model is that you become entitled to a certain benefit depending on your having paid into the system that supports it. The welfare model is that you are entitled to a certain benefit depending on your current circumstances qualifying for it.

    I'm not made at Obama for calling these programs entitlements, but I am mad at him for blurring the distinctions between insurance-based programs (most of Social Security, Medicare, unemployment, veteran's benefits) and welfare-based programs (Medicaid, food stamps, agricultural price supports).

  •  We can debate over the real meaning... (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    gerrilea, kbman

    of the term "entitlement" or we can recognize that in every day use it has become tainted.  Entitlement has become a thing to which we may not actually be entitled but which we feel we deserve.  It is now a benefit which can be taken away from us instead of part of the social contract.  

    We can try to educate and reclaim the term but that will take time that we don't have in this situation.  I think short term it would actually be better for the Democrats to come up with some other phrase to describe these programs to the general public.

    •  The correct term is "entitlement" (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Shirl In Idaho, sewaneepat

      There is no debate.

      Out of curiosity, what would you suggest as an alternative for the Dems to use in the "short term"?

      May the forces of evil become confused on the way to your house. George Carlin

      by msmacgyver on Sat Jul 23, 2011 at 09:10:50 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  *sigh* (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        shenderson, gerrilea

        There is a debate on the common use of the term vs. the actual, legalistic definition.  Of course the actual definition is correct.  That's not my point here.  The point is how it has been used.  It does not benefit us at this point in time to use a term that has negative connotations.

        It might be actually be best that they stop using short hand descriptions.  Just say "Social Security and Medicare."  Don't use the word entitlements.

        •  There is absolutely no reason to avoid (4+ / 0-)

          using the correct term because of the way it is currently being "used". "Entitlement" is not shorthand.

          This Diary and thread have proven that there are still some on DK who either do not accept or understand that "entitlement", when it refers to government programs, is the correct term or are so reactionary to RW taunting that the only alternative is to remove the correct term from rhetoric and replace it with something that is perceived as less negative.

          That is the RW alternative to reality and count me out.  

          May the forces of evil become confused on the way to your house. George Carlin

          by msmacgyver on Sat Jul 23, 2011 at 09:51:25 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  It is indeed a RW alternative to reality (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            msmacgyver

            But it's the reality we have at the moment.  It's a sad and distressing truth that the right has managed to re-define this word.  Democrats have allowed this to happen and now have a messaging problem because they are trying to use a word which has been taken away from its original context.

            We have maybe 2 days to resolve this issue of SS & Medicare being part of cuts to reduce the deficit when they don't actually contribute to the deficit.  That's the battle we should be having.  Instead we have people getting upset because Obama is using a particular word.  We need to recognize that this word is problematic and move on.  We can revisit this later when there is time to fix the damage done.  No time right now.

            •  We need to remember that the RW (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              guyeda

              uses repetitive bumper sticker slogans and buzz words to talk to their base. That is what Frank Luntz is for. Luntz is the GOPer Wordsmith and conducts focus groups just to pick and choose words which evoke the best and most positive response.  Remember the recent "Job Killing (fill in the blank)" mantra that Boehner, Cantor, et al, repeated endlessly?

              Limbaugh transformed the word "liberal" into a curse and the name, "Nancy Pelosi", can elicit the kind of blind hatred usually reserved for serial killers.

              The RW and their followers are locked into this Pavlovian world of repetitive word commands followed by expected responses. Foxbots would not know what to think or believe if they weren't given their code words and phrases. This is not going to change and when we begin to believe that the RW manipulation of a word, i.e., "entitlement", is cause to remove that word from the debate or accuse the President of co-opting RW rhetoric, we are being manipulated ourselves.  

              May the forces of evil become confused on the way to your house. George Carlin

              by msmacgyver on Sun Jul 24, 2011 at 10:50:46 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

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