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This is a short diary and sorry if it's been reported elsewhere.

The New York Times is stating that Breivik

told police what there were “two further cells in our organization,” reporters were told.

The hearing today in Oslo was held behind closed doors.

Shortly before Mr. Breivik’s arrival, the court said in a statement, “Based on information in the case, the court finds that today’s detention hearing should be held behind closed doors.”

“It is clear that there is concrete information that a public hearing with the suspect present could quickly lead to an extraordinary and very difficult situation in terms of the investigation and security,” the court said.

The clsed hearing also denied Breivik the platform he wanted to spout his twisted views.

Hedda Felin, a political scientist and human resources manager, said that giving Mr. Breivik an open platform “was more of a reward than a punishment.” He said in his manifesto that he considered killing Norway’s top journalists at their yearly meeting, she said, for not listening to him and his arguments.

“He wants an open trial to be listened to, so journalists will now write about his ideas,” Ms. Felin said. “A real punishment would be not to write about him at all.”

I guess I'm not punishing him then, but the thought there are more in his organization out there is chilling.

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Comment Preferences

  •  Heard this the other night. (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    sceptical observer, wiseacre

    "Nothing in all the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity." --M. L. King "You can't fix stupid" --Ron White

    by zenbassoon on Mon Jul 25, 2011 at 08:02:34 AM PDT

  •  I'm glad this hearing will (6+ / 0-)

    be closed.  It is a presentment (sort of like a show cause hearing).  Breveik has already produced his 1200 plus page screed on the internet.  He's already admitted to the crimes.  We already know there are other "cells" out there -- we have enough of them in this country.

    He deserves no platform to continue to spew his derangement (and I don't mean that in a clinical sense because I think he is perfectly sane for purposes of trial).

    Vi er alle norske " My faith in the Constitution is whole; it is complete; it is total." Barbara Jordan, 1974

    by gchaucer2 on Mon Jul 25, 2011 at 08:09:41 AM PDT

    •  I couldn't agree more (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      gchaucer2, G2geek, capelza

      I think publicity for his views was one of the motives for his horrific acts. I got that sense from skimming his deranged "manifesto".

      Which side are you on?

      by wiseacre on Mon Jul 25, 2011 at 08:15:04 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  There may not be other cells; he could merely.... (4+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Tam in CA, Bluefin, capelza, wiseacre

        ..... be bragging or attempting to cause further fear on the part of the general public.

        Very often in terrorist cases, lone wolves will claim to have organizations, or tiny groups of two or three people will claim to be part of large armies waiting to attack.

        This is a very common tactic.

        The converse is also true:  people who are part of large organizations often claim to be acting alone so as not to jeopardize their fellow terrorists.  

        This stuff I know from studying these types of individuals and groups in detail, including information that is not generally public, during a couple of years of actively collecting/analyzing intel on domestic cases in the US.

        Bottom line is, the Norwegian police and prosecutors are being smart in denying this bastard a platform.  And just to be safe, if there are others associated with him, it's smart to prevent him using codewords in court that could cause others to launch additional attacks.  In any case, the police and prosecutors will use all the usual clever (non-torture) interrogation methods and evidence collection, to find out whether he is or isn't associated with others who could carry out attacks.  

        So I wonder when we're going to see photos of Norwegian prison cells, just to get a sense of where this guy is going to be spending the rest of his miserable life?   I'll bet they're "nicer" than American prison cells, but every bit as effective at keeping violent criminals under lock & key and deterring anyone from following in their footsteps.  

        •  No, his "manifesto" talked about a meeting in 2002 (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Bluefin, G2geek, capelza

          in London, with 6 others and three absent I believe.  I only skimmed the thing.

          If it were me, I'd take him at his word and start looking.  It's too dangerous to assume he's bluffing.

          Which side are you on?

          by wiseacre on Mon Jul 25, 2011 at 09:09:05 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  yes, we should, just to be safe. (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:

            Or rather, the Norwegian police should, and the Metropolitan Police in the UK.  Better safe than sorry.

            Which was also my thought about holding his hearings in a closed courtroom.  His lawyers can see to it that he is treated in accord with his rights under Norwegian law, without need of an audience or the media to give him a megaphone.  

            But also, the risk that he'd use codewords to trigger another cell to act in some way.

            The problem, having dealt with analogous cases of "search for the possible accomplices," is that tracking them down is going to take a shitload of person-hours.  

            First step will be to pull his phone and internet records, and any records of air travel or other travel by means that require showing ID, which will be relatively easy.  

            Second step will be to match phone numbers and email addresses to other people, and then search their email and online postings for anything incriminating.  This part is a real bear of a task, very labor-intensive.  

            Probably a few dozen of his contacts will have wiretaps and email intercepts on them within 24 hours of being traced.  Though, thanks to Google Voice's speech-to-text and translation "features," the work of transcribing the stuff will be simpler than otherwise.  

            Some of those contacts will merit a search warrant and visit from the police.  And some of those may turn out to have weapons and explosives consistent with intent to commit other attacks, in which case hopefully there will be something for which they can be arrested & charged.

            But all of these things hang together by fine threads that have to be teased out by persistent investigative work.  

  •  I would guess that before this was even mentioned (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    wiseacre, capelza

    intelligence services here and in Europe were scouring the internet for any possible connections, no matter how insignificant.

    I would also guess that the Knights Templar, if they actually exist outside of his mind, are having a really bad day.

    "The human eye is a wonderful device. With a little effort, it can fail to see even the most glaring injustice." Richard K. Morgan

    by sceptical observer on Mon Jul 25, 2011 at 08:19:29 AM PDT

  •  Militant Rugged Individualist Man (0+ / 0-)

    MRI Man.  

    His brain will likely end up as a thoroughly mapped out case study.

    A Catholic, Jew, Muslim and Buddhist walk into Al Aqsa Mosque. Buddhist immediately exclaims: "excuse me I appear to be in the wrong joke."

    by Salo on Mon Jul 25, 2011 at 08:22:35 AM PDT

  •  Common sense rules the day in Norway. (5+ / 0-)

    here we'd be engaged in a weeks long battle about whether the trial should be open and public or closed.

    Just sayin.

    This is an example of why rules have to be flexible to allow for some common sense. No one there seems to be upset that it will not be "public" or that he can't benefit from the publicity. Here, it wouldn't be so at all.

    Here, between the news agencies screaming about not being allowed to cover the hearings and trial 24/7 to garner ratings exercise their rightful first amendment duties to the left (or right, depending on the proclivities of the accused), it would be a freaking mess.

    What would it be like to live in a sane country?

  •  Don't let him have a platform (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    wiseacre, Bluefin, capelza

    to espouse crazy ideas but also don't let the other conspirators get away with a coverup. Tinfoil hat? Maybe but hey if NY times is right, and there are "cells" in his "organization", well that is a conspiracy.

    There were definitely more involved in the Oklahoma Bombing besides the three who were convicted.

  •  For one man to -- (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Bluefin, wiseacre

    obtain a police uniform, build a bomb, hide a bomb in a secure location, detonate a bomb remotely and shoot people simultaneously, is highly unlikely. Those are radically different skill sets and interests.

    That's evidence of a sophisticated operation.

    •  On the other hand, it's exactly outlined that way (0+ / 0-)

      in the manifesto, including obtaining the uniform, building the body armor, obtaining the bomb components in order, hiding them separately, what kinds of guns to take, and conducting multiple operations consecutively.  I honestly don't know whether to think he acted alone, or had help.  It seems he could have done it alone, but he says he is part of an organization and there are two other cells.

      Whatever is true, this is a very dangerous person.  The thought that there could be more out there connected to him, with these same instructions, thoughts, and motivations, is sobering.

      Which side are you on?

      by wiseacre on Mon Jul 25, 2011 at 11:00:19 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Even Al Qeada has difficulty (0+ / 0-)

        performing simultaneous operations, and they have thousands of men with decades of combat and terrorism experience, plus millions of dollars at their disposal.

        •  All I can say is, read the manifesto (0+ / 0-)

          if you can stomach it. Did he have help, certainly possible.  Some on Utoya said there was someone else there.

          And I don't know how he could have gotten to the island so fast, and I guess the truckbomb had a timer, but why didn't anyone spot it if it was left outside the building that long?  Those issues point to more than one person.

          Way too many questions to know anything at this point.

          Which side are you on?

          by wiseacre on Mon Jul 25, 2011 at 10:34:18 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

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