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Yesterday I posted a diary about my dog Buzz and the sudden destructive behaviors and running away he was doing. I awoke this morning and was very happy to find over a hundred comments and suggestions for things I could do to help him.

I wanted to give you wonderful people an update and say thank you for the outpouring of support and suggestions to help. I agree that he is suffering extreme separation anxiety.

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Buzz lounging on my bed. Normally he does not let me catch him on my bed as he clearly was punished by previous owners for being on the bed.

This morning did not start out well. When I pulled into my work parking lot I already had a call from a neighbor - he had gotten out of the crate and escaped again. This neighbor was a mile away so he made really good time on his escape. My ex was willing to get him and she simply locked him in the house shutting the doggie door for the day. Not an ideal situation as this prevents either Buzz or Zoey, my other dog, going outside to the bathroom.

Per many suggestions I called the vet and talked with them about a sedative to give on a temporary basis until the prozac kicks in. Rather than valium, the vet prescribed Acepromazine.

I also went and enrolled him in a doggie day care the vet recommended. Both dogs start on Monday and we will play that by ear, see how that goes. Many commenters liked this idea but some were very ambivalent, feeling it might heighten Buzz' sense of abandonment. But I felt that I have to try something and this was something that seemed like it was worthwhile.

I have also messaged two trainers from Kos and both seem wonderful and willing to help so we will see what comes of that.

So that is where things stand.

Thank you again for all the suggestions and encouragement!

Andy

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Buzz and I this past spring. Yes, I am wearing a kilt.

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Zoey doing what she does best.

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Zoey, not so sure about this wearing pants thing.

Originally posted to Searching For A Better Way on Fri Aug 05, 2011 at 08:25 PM PDT.

Also republished by PWB Peeps.

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Comment Preferences

    •  ANDY... I want to help! (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      AndyT, msmacgyver, falina

      Sorry that you're having so much challenge with this dog.  Please do not give up on him.  I know how difficult it is, but there is a way.

      1)  I seriously suggest that you do not give vet-induced calming pills or shots.

      2) He has symptoms of anxiety that may be vaccination-induced.  Please take time to talk to me on the phone.  I have a dog who is just beginning to recover through "classical homeopathy" and you will see results in his behavior and calming.  E-mail your phone # to me (here at this DK message center) and give me a time.  I'll call.

      3)  I want to recommend another group SATZ, which is a powerful training program for you and your dog.  You will have expert advice about how to work with him.  

      4)  Go to your local health food store and replace any pills/shots the vet recommended with a natural calming product called "Calm Forte".  Give him 1/2 while you're home and can observe him.  Watch a miracle happen.  

      A few months ago the UPS delivery guy and I met at the doorway when I was going out to take the trash.  The dogs (puppies, small and friendly) ran out to greet him.  One of them (Katie, a little sweet girl) was over friendly and he kicked her in the side with the full force of his leg!  Can you imagine?  

      Then he was yelling at me, "You @#$%^&* bitch, I'll sue you!"  Wow, I was in shock too.

      The vet told me to get the Calm Forte and it helps them like some kind of magic.  After a couple of days I realized that the trauma had subsided.  We now use it for fireworks, grooming (one is really bad at the groomer) and at times when I want to be sure they are not going to act out!  The groomer has a nice bunch of clients who now use it too... minimally, but when necessary.

      Please contact me if you want the information on vaccinosis and classical homeopathy,  The most important thing is, "Do not give up!"

      He's a beautiful dog who has been through a lot.  It will take time, but you can handle it.

      With permission I will also put up this diary and you can ask the "animal communicator" group I belong to for some thoughts. They use pictures all the time to help every creature they encounter who has problems! These are very special people and they can help you work through this situation.

      •  And, you didn't rip the UPS guy's leg off, why? (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        AndyT, falina

        If that had been me, they would have never found that guy, ever.

        In other news, thank you for the information on "calm forte".

        Three be the things I shall never attain: Envy, Content, and sufficient champagne. --Dorothy Parker

        by M Sullivan on Sat Aug 06, 2011 at 06:23:28 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Victoria, thank you for your offer. (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        msmacgyver, falina, ZenTrainer

        At the moment I am committed to seeing if the Prozac works and integrating him into the doggie day care. I am not dismissing your suggestions, it is just that I have both time and financial limitations and have to put my resources into one or two courses of action and see the results before I change and try something different.

        If I am not for myself, who will be for me? If I am not for others, what am I? And if not now, when? Rabbi Hillel

        by AndyT on Sat Aug 06, 2011 at 07:02:27 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  bach flower essences??? (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        AndyT

        these also could be used...

  •  Hmmm, just got a pm telling me (9+ / 0-)

    acepromazine is not ideal for this situation, that we may be better off with Xanax.

    If I am not for myself, who will be for me? If I am not for others, what am I? And if not now, when? Rabbi Hillel

    by AndyT on Fri Aug 05, 2011 at 08:30:00 PM PDT

    •  The Thundershirt might be cheaper than (5+ / 0-)

      Xanax or Acepromazine. I am thinking of getting it for Bella.

      I work with B2B PAC, and all views and opinions in this account are my own.

      by slinkerwink on Fri Aug 05, 2011 at 08:40:09 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I am thinking of thundershirt as well. (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        SuWho, Miep, msmacgyver

        If I am not for myself, who will be for me? If I am not for others, what am I? And if not now, when? Rabbi Hillel

        by AndyT on Fri Aug 05, 2011 at 08:46:45 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  I bought two of them for two of our doggies (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          AndyT, msmacgyver

          Jeff has severe upsets when it thunders. Used it on him for that, seemed to help. Lucy the golden retriever has travel anxiety. Last trip we took put it on her....same panty, whiny freaky behavior. So we popped two Valiums into her, as vet suggested. She never slowed down. Sigh. Not sure if it would work for separation anxiety but I think it's worth a try, as 50% of our doggie problems helped with thundershirt. Good luck, AndyT

          "We don't see things as they are, we see things as we are." Anais Nin

          by SuWho on Fri Aug 05, 2011 at 09:51:54 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  Nah, save your money. (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          AndyT

          Several months of Zanex is cheaper than this shirt and much more effective.

          Tracy B Ann - technically that is my signature.

          by ZenTrainer on Fri Aug 05, 2011 at 09:57:51 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  ZenTrainer... (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            AndyT

            It's not about $$$.  My suggestion of CALM FORTE is not expensive, doesn't require a vet to administer and it's ALL NATURAL.

            I have not had the same success with Bach Flower remedies, but I know that many people use them successfully for their animals.  

            I know the CF will take care of it.  If $$ is an issue Andy, I will happily buy a bottle and send it.

            I also asked the animal communicator group members to come here and read the diary and offer their thoughts.  They are special people who have certain skills (LOVE of animals and people).  Let's see what they come up with when looking at his picture.

            Keep strong Andy.

        •  If you do get one, do pay attention (4+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          AndyT, victoria2dc, BachFan, msmacgyver

          to their suggestions about creating a positive association with the thundershirt. Dogs are hyperspecific about stuff, that's how their phobias develop in the first place. Don't just wait until you leave your dog alone; put it on while you're there first, give your dog a treat on the garment, play with him while he's wearing it. Don't let it just be about scary stuff. That may matter a lot.

          No peace, no justice. No justice, no peace.

          by Miep on Fri Aug 05, 2011 at 10:05:29 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

    •  I recommended Ace in my comment to (5+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      AndyT, birddog, skohayes, BachFan, MKSinSA

      you, Andy, and it does have a down side, but one that doesn't necessarily mean that it won't help Buzz as an interim measure.

      Ace will not "cure" any of the underlying factors such as anxiety, but will make Buzz less able to act out.

      In other words, he might still be very anxious and stressed, but his physical responses will be limited. Ace is often prescribed when pets need to be transported, i.e., to the vet, groomer, etc.  You can see how slowing down reactions would be a benefit.  

      I think this is what you are looking for short term and if your vet is recommending Ace, I think you should give it a try.

      Doggie day care sounds just wonderful and will give Buzz a chance to socialize and play.  He is a very handsome boy!

      May the forces of evil become confused on the way to your house. George Carlin

      by msmacgyver on Fri Aug 05, 2011 at 08:52:15 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Thank you! (4+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        msmacgyver, skohayes, BachFan, MKSinSA

        The person who objected to ace said that

        Ace Promazine takes an hour to start working and works for 12 hours. It can cause agressiveness from anxiety because it is only a tranquilizer and can throiw a dog off balance and make it even more nervous.

        I could see Buzz responding to the ace this way... some time ago we had him on something for the fourth of July to get him through the fireworks. That actually alarmed him and he was off balance, narcotized and panicking. I really don't want to repeat that!

        I think I will talk with the vet about the pros and cons of ace vs. Xanax before making a decision.

        Thank you.

        If I am not for myself, who will be for me? If I am not for others, what am I? And if not now, when? Rabbi Hillel

        by AndyT on Fri Aug 05, 2011 at 09:06:57 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  It is important for you to understand (6+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Miep, ZenTrainer, birddog, skohayes, AndyT, MKSinSA

          what to expect from any meds prescribed for Buzz and a talk with your vet should answer questions. Ace isn't any kind of long term solution but will slow him down. My vet's assistant described the typical reaction as being a little bit drunk.  

          If he is going to Day Care, he probably would not benefit at all and Ace might make him less able to react appropriately with other dogs.

          I'm very glad you wrote a Diary and got so many suggestions and so much support.  It makes a big difference.

          May the forces of evil become confused on the way to your house. George Carlin

          by msmacgyver on Fri Aug 05, 2011 at 09:27:56 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  and I just remembered (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            msmacgyver, AndyT, MKSinSA

            that the son of a friend had a separation anxiety doggie, and had her on Prozac. But it also helped that his girlfriend has a store that she goes to every day to do her doggie work of greeting everybody, so it's not much of an issue anymore.

            "We don't see things as they are, we see things as we are." Anais Nin

            by SuWho on Fri Aug 05, 2011 at 09:54:17 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Su Who??? What are you talking about? (0+ / 0-)

              Is this snark?  

              Dogs do not take Prozac and neither should people... but that is another "side effect" of the jacked up healthcare system we think is so wonderful!  The best healthcare system in the world is a joke.  People are lucky if they survive it...

              No Prozac Andy... please!

              •  Yes, Prozac is prescribed for dogs (2+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                MKSinSA, AndyT

                http://www.vetinfo.com/...

                Benefits of Prozac for Dogs

                A reformulated version of Prozac, generally known as fluoxetine, is now being marketed as Reconcile, a chewable form flavored like a dog treat. It was approved by the U.S. Food and Drug Administration after demonstrating effectiveness against separation anxiety, which causes dogs to panic when their owners leave. However, this isn't a new development in treating dog behavior. Veterinarians have been using human prozac at lowered doses for years to treat various behavior problems, such as aggression caused by fear or anxiety.

                Though there are no statistics on the use of anti-anxiety medications for dogs, many owners report significant reduction in aggression or anxiety once using the drug. Some dogs may need to stay on these medications for the rest of their lives to maintain the new behavior, and for others, it's a temporary fix.

                Side Effects

                However, Prozac is not the answer for all dogs. Some dogs' symptoms worsen on medication as they become more anxious or aggressive. Other side effects include lethargy, panting, hyperactivity, shaking, restlessness, excessive vocalization, temporary lack of appetite and gastrointestinal upset. In rare cases, it may cause seizures.

                If keeping your dog on Prozac for an extended period of time, have liver enzymes checked annually, as with most long-term medications. Prozac can have negative effects if used in conjunction with other drugs, such as diazepam, phenylbutazone, digoxin or busiprone.


                May the forces of evil become confused on the way to your house. George Carlin

                by msmacgyver on Sat Aug 06, 2011 at 07:24:05 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

              •  Dogs do take Prozac and often with great (2+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                AndyT, msmacgyver

                success. I understand your inclination toward "natural" substances, but Buzz can get killed if Andy isn't able to help him quickly.

                In fact, not only do dogs take Prozac successfully, but there is a similar version made specifically for dogs: clomicalm.
                http://www.drugs.com/...   It's supposed to be more bioavailable to dogs  than generic Prozac, but it costs a lot more. And many dogs do well on generic, so it makes sense to start there.

                Natural substances have side effects and bad consequences as well. I could have a whole discussion with you about this. But mostly it comes down to: Buzz needs help; we find him the best help asap.

                © grover


                The library is a wonderful place with books to read and you can listen to records like "The Air is Alive with the Sound of Music." -- grover, the furry blue taxi driver

                by grover on Sat Aug 06, 2011 at 01:21:51 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

        •  Well... first of all: is your vet practicing (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          MKSinSA

          traditional veterinary medicine Andy?  If yes, would you consider switching to a holistic vet?  Here is the reason:  all symptoms are related to some kind of disease.  Just like with humans, symptoms are an alarm and let us know something is wrong.

          The reason healthcare in America is so substandard is because doctors prescribe little "pills" and sometimes big "pills" but pills NEVER solve the problem.  They simply block the manifestation of the pain or the "effect" of the disease.  

          In this case, I would bet that Buzz has been vaccinated for everything, right?  How many times has he been vaccinated?  What about the past 5 generations of his dog family?

          My dog displays the same anxiety and he does strange things like eat rocks, plastic, paper and on and on.  People give up on these dogs because they are so difficult.  My little guy (26 pound PBGV) came here with so many problems I had no idea about.  He would act out because the anxiety is a symptom of the damage caused by the vaccinations.  It's a very deep discussion and this is not the place to have it, but after 2 doses of a classical homeopathic remedy, I see changes in his behavor and in his overall health.  

          I can introduce you to hundreds of people who had the same worries you have about your dog who have found relief with natural remedies and no drugs!  

          •  I use a homeopathic vet, a vet acupuncturist, (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            msmacgyver, grover, AndyT

            a vet chiropractor- all board certified. I was not raised using allopathic medicine and have a healthy distrust of it.

            However I consider myself Holistic, as in whole. There is a time and place for everything.

            Western medicine happens to be the best for pain relief and psychotropic  drugs.

            Tracy B Ann - technically that is my signature.

            by ZenTrainer on Sat Aug 06, 2011 at 08:19:35 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  I'm fortunate (now) in having a young (3+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              MKSinSA, ZenTrainer, AndyT

              vet who is equally as interested in conventional medicine as she is in holistic remedies. Her approach is to tailor treatment to the understanding of the pet owner.

              I expressed my own interest in homeopathic care from the beginning, so she discusses alternative treatments with me which she might not with another pet owner who is not so inclined.

              It's difficult enough to diagnose human ailments and when we want quick fixes for our pets, we need to remember that they can't communicate specifics and we have to be observant and able to describe symptoms.

              This has been such a helpful Diary and I've learned something new.  I had not heard of Thundershirts before so I went to Amazon and this looks like something I would consider if I had a dog with separation anxiety or a fear of loud noises.

              I'm a confirmed Pootie Person now after sharing my life with some very beautiful Shelter dogs who all had one personality quirk or another. I became interested in dog training and behavior mod and once a dog owner starts down this path, life becomes a whole lot more interesting and rewarding.  

              May the forces of evil become confused on the way to your house. George Carlin

              by msmacgyver on Sat Aug 06, 2011 at 08:48:49 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  If you like the Thunder Shirt (2+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                msmacgyver, AndyT

                which I have found does not work, you'll love the HAR-VEST which actually does work - http://www.abetterpet.com.

                It's amazing what it does for anxious dogs, as well as many other kinds of behavior problems.

                Tracy B Ann - technically that is my signature.

                by ZenTrainer on Sat Aug 06, 2011 at 12:32:31 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  Thanks! The Vest looks like it's (2+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  ZenTrainer, AndyT

                  more of a training device than the Thundershirt.  I can see where both would have the potential of helping dogs with different kinds of behavioral problems.

                  Can you describe your experiences with both?

                  I'm involved with our local animal Shelter and these kinds of innovations could help adopters who can become overwhelmed with newly adopted dogs which exhibit troubling behavior.

                  It's sad that so many dogs are owner surrendered primarily because they have destructive or annoying quirks and disorders which can make them hard to place.  Dogs with no known history can be diagnosed at the Shelter as having potential problems, but it's only until an adopted dog goes home that new owners can face problems some don't want to deal with.

                  It's always positive when options are available and I'm so glad to learn about both the Thundershirt and the Har-Vest.  

                  May the forces of evil become confused on the way to your house. George Carlin

                  by msmacgyver on Sat Aug 06, 2011 at 01:15:14 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  I have no direct experience with (3+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    msmacgyver, Sara R, AndyT

                    the Thunder shirt, only 20 or so clients who have told me when I arrived that they used them and they didn't work. The local pet stores also report they get a lot of returns.
                    I think people are drawn to them because they are cheap.

                    Any tool should be considered a training device, whether it's a crate, a leash, a special shirt, or pharmaceuticals. Once the dog is trained and/or the behavior problem is treated, the tool should no longer be needed.

                    The HAR-VEST works as a 4 in one device. It acts as a harness/backpack for a dog, it can signal that a dog is working, it has a no pull feature and it's a magical thing that fixes a variety of behavior problems.

                    My belief is that much like a head halter the straps  hit certain pressure points. The inventor believes it works in a "Temple Grandin" sort of way surrounding and comforting the dog.

                    Whatever, it works. I have used it on terriers when no other no pull device works and instantly they walk calmly. With anxious dogs that pace back and forth and bark, this vest makes them stand still (they are still present though, it doesn't turn them into zombies).

                    I have used it on Labs that were afraid to be around people and with this on they go right up to strangers and nudge them with their nose.

                    I've used it with greyhounds and a few other breeds who jumped wildly and after wearing this they did not jump on people.

                    I used it with escape artists, particularly one clever Great Pyr and they didn't seem to want to escape anymore.

                    I've used it on many dogs who are afraid of thunder and they tend to just go to sleep without all the panting and drooling.

                    It's probably worked for other things, oh yes, once in desperation I tried it on a dog that wouldn't stop barking and wearing this it did.

                    I think this one is less popular because it's more expensive but you get more bang for your buck (on a walk you can put your stuff and your dogs stuff in the pockets) and it's made in the USA.

                    I've also used it (by using the handle) to help puppies and elderly dogs into a car. I've seen dogs who are terrible car riders be calm in a car while wearing this.

                    And it's made in the USA. I'm a huge fan. I tell clients to save up and buy one if at all possible.

                    LOL! I think I'll go apply for a job making an infomercial for this product.

                    Tracy B Ann - technically that is my signature.

                    by ZenTrainer on Sat Aug 06, 2011 at 01:46:00 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  You're hired! Your infomercial sold me and (2+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      ZenTrainer, AndyT

                      I'll print out your testimonial for future reference.

                      Many of the "tools" used for training segue into a big part of a dog's life so I disagree with you on that point, but you clearly have a lot of experience with different breeds and different needs.

                      As I said, I'm so glad to have found both of these products.  I'm probably behind the curve here, as usual, but they are new to me.  I can see the value of the "Temple Grandin" effect and have seen the results of less than patient and compassionate obedience training.

                      Thanks...

                      May the forces of evil become confused on the way to your house. George Carlin

                      by msmacgyver on Sat Aug 06, 2011 at 02:03:58 PM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

            •  You sound exactly like me, Zen. (3+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              ZenTrainer, AndyT, msmacgyver

              I naturally go toward holistics, raw diets, etc.  But I have a full tool box and I use all of it. If my dog has blown her ACL, I don't "holistically" treat it, not when surgery has a 93-95% success rate and not repairing it leaves her in pain. Treadmill, swim, and other rehab therapies? That's for after surgery, to get her back up and going quickly.

              I pick up my clicker and my dogs come zooooooming up to me. I work with the best trainers money can buy. But if we hit a place that truly appears more chemical/emotional than behavioral, then I go to someone who knows the brain's chemistry.

              Rescue Remedy,  DAP, and essential oils are nice for reasonably stable dogs under stress. But if we need more help than that, we go to an expert. And it's not a holistic vet. My holistic vet would never presume to treat severe behavioral issues anyhow.

              © grover


              The library is a wonderful place with books to read and you can listen to records like "The Air is Alive with the Sound of Music." -- grover, the furry blue taxi driver

              by grover on Sat Aug 06, 2011 at 01:36:30 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

      •  Andy... please try natural remedies (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        MKSinSA

        before you start putting the guy on drugs!  Just don't do it.  The state of veterinary care in America is as bad as healthcare for humans.  

        Vets are (of course) people with a good deal of education, but they are owned by the pet food industry and by the pill makers.  They know what they know but most vets are limited in anything natural.

        Please don't put him on any drug unless it's absolutely necessary.

    •  Ace has been an old standby for years, (6+ / 0-)

      and many regular vets prescribe it a lot. But there's (somewhat) new info that while a dog on Ace seems calm, it's because it suppresses his physical reactions. But he still feels just as scared. So, imagine that you're terrified, but you can't communicate that by shouting or trying to flee.

      I personally wouldn't use it on a fearful dog unless it were the only thing I could find to keep him from hurting himself.  

      Also, the Prozac will likely enhance the effects of the Ace. I presume your vet looked this up before prescribing it. But given that many vets don't prescribe psychopharmaceuticals often, I'd ask just to make sure.

      The sooner you can consult with a veterinary behaviorist, the better.

      © grover


      The library is a wonderful place with books to read and you can listen to records like "The Air is Alive with the Sound of Music." -- grover, the furry blue taxi driver

      by grover on Fri Aug 05, 2011 at 09:31:17 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I kind of wondered about some of the (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        skohayes, AndyT, MKSinSA

        items you bring up, grover, but I also presumed Buzz's vet researched before deciding... so I figured the Ace must be okay in this instance. However, I really agree with you that talking to an actual behaviorist, someone more versed in psycho-pharmaceuticals for pets than a general practice veterinarian, is a very good idea.

      •  we tried Ace with Lucy the golden (4+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        ZenTrainer, AndyT, victoria2dc, MKSinSA

        but it just totally incapacitated her. We didn't want to try it a second time.

        "We don't see things as they are, we see things as we are." Anais Nin

        by SuWho on Fri Aug 05, 2011 at 09:55:45 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  SuWho!!! (0+ / 0-)

          Good.  Even better... try Calm Forte.  Now after effects, no lingering chemicals in her body, and great results!  This product was recommended by my holistic vet who has been in the business of helping animals for 40 years and he didn't make a dime off of the purchase I made for Katie!

          Please try it.  

      •  Exactly!! (4+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        AndyT, victoria2dc, MKSinSA, msmacgyver

        Vets get NO credit hours on behaviour in their education. Doesn't make them bad vets just not knowledgeble about behaviour.

        I don't expect them to be. I want them to focus on medicine so that they can be my guide there.

        For behaviour I stick with the really good trainers and vet behaviorists.

        While Karen Overall and Patricia McConnell are my faves, Nicolas Dodman is the real godfather behind animal psychology and pharmacology.

        Tracy B Ann - technically that is my signature.

        by ZenTrainer on Fri Aug 05, 2011 at 10:06:58 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Well... let's not even start the (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          MKSinSA

          nutrition thing!  Oh god... if anyone here feeds kibble (any brand, and form, any cost)... throw it out.  Kibble is PROCESSED food and I won't say anymore except, please check out the Raw Prey Model diet.  It will change your dog's life (and yours too).

          •  I feed a "kibble" that is human grade, (4+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            MKSinSA, grover, AndyT, msmacgyver

            USDA inspected. I suuplement with a homemade food from a recipe from a vet.

            Tracy B Ann - technically that is my signature.

            by ZenTrainer on Sat Aug 06, 2011 at 08:21:35 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          •  I feed some of my dogs raw, some cooked, some (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            ZenTrainer, AndyT, msmacgyver

            kibble with canned. And I create my raw diets myself. It's a lot of work. But much like my training plans, I work out nutrition plans for the dog sitting in front of me. What works well for one can be terrible for another, and what worked three years ago may need to be changed.

            In other words,  best diet is the diet your dog does best on. For example, dogs with pancreas issues (even if they're not obvious) tend to do poorly on raw diets. Raw can exacerbate a low-simmering pancreas issue, and pancreatitis is often fatal.  I have a friend who is a dedicated rare feeder whose dog died from choking on a bone. A rare occurrence, but it happens.

            So blanket nutrition advice is the same as saying, feed all your children peanut butter. For many children it's healthy. And for some, it's a terrible idea, even lethal.

            Are there some Kibbles that are awful? Of course. Grocery store kibbles should be avoided unless that's all the owner can afford. And the Big Three (Iams, Purina, Sci Diet) aren't much better.  But there are plenty of excellent kibbles on the market. Processed? Yes but with superior ingredients and the least processing possible. And for many dogs and their owners, these are the best for them.

            © grover


            The library is a wonderful place with books to read and you can listen to records like "The Air is Alive with the Sound of Music." -- grover, the furry blue taxi driver

            by grover on Sat Aug 06, 2011 at 12:58:30 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  I confess I have a TV in my kitchen (3+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              AndyT, msmacgyver, grover

              that I justified by saying I need it for the 3 hours every 2 weeks that I make my dog food. (I make it and freeze it)

              Lord of the Rings is my favorite movie to cook to and I swear it's on every weekend.

              Tracy B Ann - technically that is my signature.

              by ZenTrainer on Sat Aug 06, 2011 at 01:56:33 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  Heh. Your tv probably cost as much as my (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                ZenTrainer

                commercial grade grinder. And let's not discuss the extra freezers we have, eh?

                Sigh. The things we do for our beasts....

                © grover


                The library is a wonderful place with books to read and you can listen to records like "The Air is Alive with the Sound of Music." -- grover, the furry blue taxi driver

                by grover on Sat Aug 06, 2011 at 04:17:08 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

    •  I hope this doesn't sound weird lol (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      AndyT

      I was actually prescribed Xanax before a long, stressful medical procedure, and I kinda liked how it made me feel.  :)

      "At some point in the last 20 years, the left moved to the center, and the right moved into a mental institution." - Bill Maher

      by AZ RedWingsFan on Fri Aug 05, 2011 at 09:44:01 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Seriously... (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      AndyT, victoria2dc

      try the Bach Flower remedies. Your dog may not need heavy meds. These might really do the trick.

      If you tell the truth, you don’t have to remember anything. - Mark Twain

      by MA Liberal on Fri Aug 05, 2011 at 10:22:12 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  acepromazine (7+ / 0-)

      The Colonel used it to help him with anxiety about thunderstorms, fireworks, etc. I don't know about the other meds but Colonel really got wiped out from his. He would usually sleep for at least 24 hours but at least he wasn't terrified, drooling, panting, trying to crawl under us in bed, etc. We burried him yesterday and it was kind of weird tonight when a thunderstorm broke, it was the first time in over 10 years that I didn't have to get his meds for him. He is finally free of his fears, as we all will be someday.

  •  Thanks for the update. And thanks (9+ / 0-)

    for the community for offering answers.

    J.

    "Success was individual achievement; failure was a social problem." Michael Lewis in The Big Short: Inside the Doomsday Machine

    by hoolia on Fri Aug 05, 2011 at 08:33:13 PM PDT

  •  Glad to hear (7+ / 0-)

    that you have a good plan! Love the photos!

    Best of success to you and your dogs.

  •  So glad to hear you have (5+ / 0-)

    a plan and some renewed hope.  Thank you for the update, and the wonderful pictures!

  •  Oy. Poor doggie, (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    AndyT, msmacgyver, Pandoras Box

    makes my cat's various neuroses seem minor.

  •  Cool. Good luck! nt (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    AndyT, msmacgyver, Pandoras Box

    I'm sorry, but your reality simply doesn't fit my economic model.

    by Reframing the Debate on Fri Aug 05, 2011 at 08:59:31 PM PDT

  •  I added a tag, Woozles. (5+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    AndyT, msmacgyver, Pandoras Box, MKSinSA, Ebby

    It's followed by more Kossacks than wozzles.

  •  I replied to comments in the other diary (6+ / 0-)

    about Ace and I know I probably came off as being much more pro-Valium (or other specifically anti-anxiety drugs) but I AM NOT A VET and if Buzz's vet wants to go with Ace, that is just fine.  There could be something about Prozac for dogs that contraindicates the use of valium or other drugs of that type - when I was last working in vet hospitals, vets were just barely starting to script Prozac, so there's prolly tons of info I have missed in the interim...

    All I ultimately care about is that Andy and Buzz have many happy years ahead.

    I hope everything works out for you both! :)

  •  I can't help but wonder if this isn't all (5+ / 0-)

    caused by the fact that you wear a skirt and expect your dog to wear pants??? I mean that has to be confusing.

    I am reviewing a great book by Dr. Nancy Kay called "Speaking For Spot" which is all about being an advocate for your dog.

    It gives great advice about what questions to ask your vet and how to ask them and discusses getting a second opinion.

    So far I am very impressed with it. Her blog is great too.

    Tracy B Ann - technically that is my signature.

    by ZenTrainer on Fri Aug 05, 2011 at 10:20:06 PM PDT

  •  Also try Bach Flower Remedies... (5+ / 0-)

    They are homeopathic tinctures that help with various ailments, and one especially for anxiety. I used to give the anxiety one to my dog when there were fireworks or thunderstorms present. At that time they were only for humans, though they worked. But they now have ones specifically for animals and their needs.

    And I have to laugh a bit because I had a co-worker who had a dog that was really destructive - but very careful too. In that I mean that the dog used to get into the fridge. ...
    One time, she pulled out a whole dozen eggs. She ate the carton but, surprisingly, didn't break a single egg. Another time she pulled out a Tupperware container of spaghetti sauce. She got the top off and demolished it but never spilled a drop of sauce! LOL! Of course, they then decided to use a chain and lock on the fridge.

    If you tell the truth, you don’t have to remember anything. - Mark Twain

    by MA Liberal on Fri Aug 05, 2011 at 10:20:48 PM PDT

  •  Benadryl is my go-to med for occasional anxiety, (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    AndyT, Pandoras Box, ZenTrainer

    puffy ear syndrome, car sickness.

    Classes should work wonders, hope everything works out for the best.

    She was only a whiskey maker, but he loved her still.

    by wretchedhive on Sat Aug 06, 2011 at 04:10:29 AM PDT

  •  I have been following your story about (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    AndyT, msmacgyver, ZenTrainer, Ebby

    your problems with Buzz and seeing that you got so many wonderful suggestions.  I have been fostering greyhounds for many years but have been so lucky with my woozles that I have not had this kind of problem, although many greyhounds suffer from separation anxiety as well.  I never know when I might come across a woozle with this problem so I was just blown away by all the insightful responses.

    Thank you for the pictures!  Love the kilt too!  And I just love, and am amazed by, this community!!! People with experience and support to offer - not just advice but willing to come through with tangible help (like someone above willing to buy Buzz's meds for you!).  

    So many generous spirits here.  

    All the best to you, AndyT, and to Buzz and Zoey!  

    My Pandora:
    Photobucket
    Woozle Zero

  •  pig ears and kong's (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    AndyT, msmacgyver

    ALL our dogs are the SAME WAY. the pit and the australian shepherd can both get out of any carrier. anyway, they are always very happy in their own room and with a bunch of pig ears, marrow bone from the butcher ($2.15), or a peanut butter kong. play some soothing music, i would play teletubbies.

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