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In a highly-rec'd diary, My Left Behind used a faked email from Karl Rove to criticize the Progressive on Dailykos for criticizing the President.  In the discussion thread, My Left Behind explained his/her reasoning to a commenter:

I tried to point out that much of the work here is aligned with what a Rove operative would try to do

Well, I have my own theory.  It strikes me that the Professional Centrists on Dailykos are actually the individuals who are behaving more like Rove operatives than the hippies they are punching.

Think about it.  Karl Rove is nothing if not a diabolically clever schemer.

If he were to plan a special ops scheme to foment dissension among Democrats, using phony I.D.'s, why would it make more sense for these fake Democrats to pose as economic leftists criticizing the President than it would be for them to pose as loyal Centrists, criticizing the Left?  Either would succeed in causing dissension; which one would make more sense from a scheming Republican's POV?

Clearly, it would make more sense to create dissension from the center, for even though they would be using the voice of Democratic 'centrists' to criticize the Left, they would still be criticizing the Left, which is THE enemy they are trying to defeat.  That way they are able to attack (demonize) the Left both from without and within.

The Republicans actually have no fear of the rhetoric of Dem Centrists, for none of their compromising instincts threaten the corporatist goals that the Republicans want to achieve.

If the Republicans want to foment dissension among Democrats, why would they want to pose as Leftists criticizing the President for being too "Republican?"  That kind of criticism could/might ultimately have an impact on the independents if it were to leak out to them, persuading them that the Republicans are actually evil jerks.

In order for these operatives to be taken seriously by the Left, they would have to come up with some effective criticism of the President that is convincingly "leftist", wouldn't they?  But doing so would simply add to the total amount of criticism of the Republican agenda that is heard across the country, adding their voices (the operatives') to those of the true leftists out there.

Why would the Republicans want to do such a thing?  Their hope has always been that the voices of the Left can be drowned out by the Republican Party's "shouting machine."  

Why give the Left anything, when it is just as easy to split the Dems from the Center?  It makes much more sense for them to create the dissension they seek by posing as "reasonable" centrists who are loyally defending the President from radical critics from the Hippie Left.

No, the theory espoused by My Left Behind makes no sense at all.  What makes far more sense coming from the mind of Karl Rove is a phony Dem scheme where the Centrist Operatives loudly point the finger at the Leftists, accusing them of doing the very thing that they are doing, themselves.

That little Republican trick we have seen before.  How many times have we heard, now, about the gay-bashing Republican politicians actually turning out to be gay, themselves?  What better way to disguise hidden truths about yourself than by accusing your opponents of being the very thing that you are, yourself?

That is about as Rovian as you can get.

(Note: I'm not claiming that any of the Professional Centrists at Dailykos actually are Rovian plants, but I am saying that it makes much more sense that they would be Republican plants than any of the Leftist Hippies posting at Dailydos.  It would better fit what we know of the Republicans' diabolical schemes, historically.)

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Comment Preferences

  •  Thanks for the laugh! (3+ / 0-)

    I think they're actually either sincere Blue Dogs or emo-types who have "not by reason but by faith alone" as their mantra, but that so-called joke deserved mockery.   As I commented in the original diary, bilge like that made me come out as a critic.  Who died and made him Trotsky? :)  

    "A city for sale and doomed to speedy destruction if it finds a purchaser!" -King Jugurtha of Numidia

    by LucyandByron on Sun Aug 28, 2011 at 12:35:14 AM PDT

    •  Speaking of Blue Dogs... (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      SadieB

      I've been wondering if maybe it isn't accurate to describe Barack Obama as a Blue Dog Democrat.

      Is there any 'quality' attributed to Blue Dog Dems that doesn't also apply to Barack?

      •  I have seen this meme elsewhere (0+ / 0-)

        but Blue Dog also intimates a DINO and I have not seen Obama charged with this

      •  Blue Dogs are fiscal conservatives (0+ / 0-)

        Obama is not.

        You will never know what it’s like to work on a farm until your hands are raw, just so people can have fresh marijuana. Jack Handey

        by skohayes on Sun Aug 28, 2011 at 06:13:23 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Obama is not... (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          kbman, tgrshark13

          ...a fiscal conservative?  After he just went out of his way to reduce government spending during a deep recession?

          What are you thinking of when you claim he is not a fiscal conservative?

          •  Words have meanings (0+ / 0-)

            Fiscal conservatives don't believe in stimulating the economy with government spending. Obama passed a stimulus bill.
             Fiscal conservatives don't believe in raising taxes, Obama does.
             Fiscal conservatives believe that tax cuts to the wealthy will stimulate the economy. Obama believes that a combination of cuts and revenues will do a better job, along with government spending.
            We are not in a deep recession, we were in a deep recession and now we're fighting to get back to normal growth, but we are growing. Hence, no "deep recession".
            To call Obama a "fiscal conservative" simply because he had to negotiate a  debt reduction bill to get the House to pass a bill raising the debt ceiling is not only short sighted, it completely ignores reality.

            You will never know what it’s like to work on a farm until your hands are raw, just so people can have fresh marijuana. Jack Handey

            by skohayes on Sun Aug 28, 2011 at 08:12:36 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Some reality you are ignoring... (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              kbman

              Bill Clinton ran as a fiscal conservative and he raised taxes on rich people in a way that Obama can only dream about.

              Barack might have passed a stimulus bill, but most of the "stimulus" was tax cuts---right out of the Republican playbook.

              The fact that you don't believe the economy is in a deep recession with a 9% unemployment rate tells me everything I need to know about this conversation...

              •  Less than half the stimulus (0+ / 0-)

                was tax cuts. Not most.
                As I said above, words mean things, they have definitions.
                Whether you like those definitions or not doesn't change the meaning of the words.

                A period of temporary economic decline during which trade and industrial activity are reduced, generally identified by a fall in GDP in two successive quarters or more

                You will never know what it’s like to work on a farm until your hands are raw, just so people can have fresh marijuana. Jack Handey

                by skohayes on Sun Aug 28, 2011 at 01:17:23 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

  •  since it appears various think tanks and (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    johnny wurster

    others pay staffers to comment on various sites, is there any pay for professional centrists and where do you sign up?

  •  occam's razor says the people who day in and day (4+ / 0-)

    out, find negatives about Democrats to amplify, are the moles.

    which group under discussion would that be, again?

    the Rovian model would be to insert someone pretendig to be a LONGTIME Democratic voter who ONLY JUST NOW (not in the Clinton years, mind you but JUST NOW) has decided to leave the Party, and because of ONE MAN:  Barack Obama.

    the Rovian model would be to call a yellow dog Dem like me, who's still enthusiastic about voting for the Dem incumbent, a Rovan mole.

    nice try and all, but this theory of yours doesn't pass the smell test.

    "I'm Black and I'm proud, I'm ready, I'm hype, plus I'm amped/ most of my heroes don't appear on no stamp!" ~Carlton Ridenhour

    by mallyroyal on Sun Aug 28, 2011 at 05:12:35 AM PDT

    •  Well there you go -- (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      James Kroeger, PhilK, killjoy

      the operatives would be those who hate all Democrats but one, and that one a fake Democrat.

      Truly the destruction of the earth only results from the destitution of its inhabitants, and its inhabitants become destitute only when rulers concern themselves with amassing wealth. Caliph Ali, 7th century

      by SadieB on Sun Aug 28, 2011 at 05:20:07 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Occam's razor (4+ / 0-)

      I disagree.  As I understand it, that principle would suggest that the correct answer is the one which requires the fewest presuppositions.  So I'm thinking that a Karl Rove conspiracy theory involving either side of the pie fight is not likely.  The simplest answer -- and the one I think is correct -- is that there are Democrats who disagree with one another and it's easier to call names than it is to persuade one another.

      •  lex parsimoniae, the law of simplicity (0+ / 0-)

        I don't share your understanding of the principle (which is actually a subjective principle, as 'simplicity' itself is subjective)

        and we both know sometimes the simplest explanation is incorrect.

        it's a general guiding rule, no more.

        but I do like your comment.

        "I'm Black and I'm proud, I'm ready, I'm hype, plus I'm amped/ most of my heroes don't appear on no stamp!" ~Carlton Ridenhour

        by mallyroyal on Sun Aug 28, 2011 at 05:38:12 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  This is, of course, the correct answer... (0+ / 0-)
        The simplest answer -- and the one I think is correct -- is that there are Democrats who disagree with one another and it's easier to call names than it is to persuade one another.

        And yes, the purpose of my diary was to point out that if we are going to reach for more fantastic, more complicated explanations of the disagreements between Democrats, then it makes more sense to speculate that a Rovian operative would want to amplify the complaints of the Center, rather than the complaints of the Left.

    •  occam's razor says (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      James Kroeger

      the moles are in the imaginations of people who vehemently disagree with each other, but don't actually exist.

      Really, neither theory passes the smell test.

      They didn't take baby steps when they saved the Rich.

      by Whimsical Rapscallion on Sun Aug 28, 2011 at 08:12:53 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  That diary may well have been written by Rove (3+ / 0-)

    In fact, it would be quite reasonable that both sides are infiltrated by the devious henchman.

    In fact, it is quite possible that I am the only person still posting here who is not being paid by Rove to do so.

    Wouldn't that be a bitch?

    Am I right, or am I right? - The Singing Detective

    by Clem Yeobright on Sun Aug 28, 2011 at 06:01:14 AM PDT

  •  I dunno if Rove has some master plan to divide (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    skohayes, James Kroeger

    and conquer Democrats. It would make sense from his perspective. We should be trying to do the same thing to the Republicans.

    If there is any plan to increase dissention among our ranks, it would only be successful if we cooperate with Karl Rove.

    There is absolutely nothing wrong with us disagreeing with each other. This is a huge freaking party (big tent my ass, there is no tent big enough). Contrary opinions are not our weakness, they are our strength. It is important how we express those ideas, though. If we are snide, rude, dismissive, etc. then we are doing Karl Rove's work for him. If we treat each other with respect and are willing to honestly consider each others' views--well, that should scare Rove like nothing else. As Bill W says above it is harder to persuade one another than it is to sling mud, the effort is well worth it, though.

    Who knows, if we keep open minds and address one another decently we may all come out of this tunnel better people.

    •  He engineered the anti union and trial lawyer (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Had Enough Right Wing BS

      campaign since he identified those as the main source of money for Democrats.

      Tea Parties are for little girls with imaginary friends.

      by J Edward on Sun Aug 28, 2011 at 06:43:43 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  This sounds likely, but I don't really know the (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        J Edward

        details. Unions and people who work every day to improve our legal system from within and at the "ground level" have long been among our most solid supporters. We do know they've been attacked for a long time because of their positions.

        I wonder what we can learn from their responses? How can we protect ourselves and each other better than the unions, for example, have been able to do?

        To keep it more on track with the post (diary), how can we turn Karl Rove's tactics against him--or at least avoid furthering his goals?

        •  You're asking good questions... (2+ / 0-)
          I wonder what we can learn from their responses? How can we protect ourselves and each other better than the unions, for example, have been able to do?...how can we turn Karl Rove's tactics against him--or at least avoid furthering his goals?

          I think there's a lot we can learn from studying the tactics of our Republican Nemesis.  I don't know if it's possible for us to "protect ourselves" from their tactics as much as it is possible for us to persuade the Swing Voters to develop a continuing identification with the Democratic Party.

        •  from defunding conservatism by dopper189 on kos (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Had Enough Right Wing BS

          "In the 1990's Karl Rove researched who "funds" Liberals and Democrats.  He realized that the majority of funding (80%) for progressive cause came from 3 sources.  Unions, trial lawyers, and 'Jews' (this is his finding).  So he helped author plans to kick out 3 of these legs by breaking public sector unions, limiting class action suits, and to breaking the 'special relationship' between Jews and the Democratic Party"

          Tea Parties are for little girls with imaginary friends.

          by J Edward on Sun Aug 28, 2011 at 09:23:27 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

    •  Comments like yours.... (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Had Enough Right Wing BS

      ....make me think that my purpose in writing this diary was successful.

      As an Economic Progressive, I would encourage all progressive critics of the President to suppress the emotional instinct to attack Centrist Obama Loyalists, even after they have been attacked in an especially hurtful way.

      Why?  Because even if they decided to leave the Democratic Party in frustration, they would still be faced with the need to persuade a large number of people within the Electorate to embrace the Progressive Economic Solutions.

      So who, among the entire Electorate, are going to be the most open to Progressive Economic Solutions?  The Republicans?  The Independents who are still not sure of who they are going to vote for in 2012?  

      Or how about those who currently self-identify themselves as Democrats but who are being persuaded by feelings of loyalty to support the President's misguided economic instincts?

      My advice to fellow progressives is that they learn to just brush off the insults and try to persuade with logic and earnest appeals.  Seize the moral high ground, if you will.  Their challenge is the same: to persuade the uninformed re: solutions that this country so desperately needs.

  •  My problem with Obama is he talked a good game (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    James Kroeger

    I especially liked his story about how doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result was insanity.  Then he went on to repeatedly placate the thugs of the GnoP.  Why was he even talking about spending cuts during a downturn.  Why did he give up on the increase in taxes to the rich when the American people were with him.  Same about single payer healthcare and special favors to the oil industry.  He let self confessed war criminals off the hook along with those that engineered the Great Recession for their own benefit.  "Truth, Justice and the American Way" was a line from the opening of 1950s TV Superman but has no practical meaning today.  He could have done so much more with the bully pulpit.  I consider myself to be pro Obama, I wish he was.

    Tea Parties are for little girls with imaginary friends.

    by J Edward on Sun Aug 28, 2011 at 06:40:02 AM PDT

    •  It really is difficult... (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      J Edward

      ...to reconcile his political actions during the past couple of years with the words he repeated during his campaign.

      One of the things that sold me on Obama was my perception of him as a "teacher" who might be eager to exploit many "teachable moments."  I imagined him imitating FDR with modern equivalents of fireside chats.

      At the very least, I imagined him using his bully pulpit to explain why the traditional Democratic economic solutions (increasing government spending during a recession) were both morally superior and historically proven to be effective.  

      But it never happened and I'm not sure I'll ever know why...

    •  I have been urging everyone, both supporters (0+ / 0-)

      and critics of President Obama to read this diary. It adds a perspective I think is helpful. And no, I'm not the author.

      Rather than uniformity our goal should be unity.

      •  You know... (0+ / 0-)

        Reading that review of the passionate criticism FDR received from the Left doesn't persuade me that those who currently represent the left wing of the Dem Party should silence their criticisms of the President, but rather quite the opposite.

        By modern Republican standards, FDR's programs were radical and outrageous, but compared to the criticism he received from the Left during his time, FDR was quite moderate.

        In other words, if BHO, like FDR, actually harbors progressive sympathies, but feels obligated to seek compromise, then the only way you can give him the political cover he needs to compromise left is by becoming even more shrill in their criticism of his moderation.

        Of course, that wouldn't do much to further common perceptions of Unity, would it?

        •  Actually, we may have drawn some similar and (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          James Kroeger

          some different conclusions from the other essay.

          I am firmly on the left, myself. While I have tried to accept President Obama's approach as much as possible, as I reached my limits I began to feel disloyal. That is not terribly unusual, as all nationally viable candidates will (probably always) be to my right--they sure have been up till now.

          I totally agree that:

          As an Economic Progressive, I would encourage all progressive critics of the President to suppress the emotional instinct to attack Centrist Obama Loyalists, even after they have been attacked in an especially hurtful way.

          Why?  Because even if they decided to leave the Democratic Party in frustration, they would still be faced with the need to persuade a large number of people within the Electorate to embrace the Progressive Economic Solutions.

          So who, among the entire Electorate, are going to be the most open to Progressive Economic Solutions?  The Republicans?  The Independents who are still not sure of who they are going to vote for in 2012?  

          Or how about those who currently self-identify themselves as Democrats but who are being persuaded by feelings of loyalty to support the President's misguided economic instincts?

          My advice to fellow progressives is that they learn to just brush off the insults and try to persuade with logic and earnest appeals.  Seize the moral high ground, if you will.  Their challenge is the same: to persuade the uninformed re: solutions that this country so desperately needs.

          I share your belief that "those who currently represent the left wing of the Dem Party should [not] silence their criticisms of the President." We have a duty to speak, my worry is more about the tendency to talk at people rather than talk with them. The old saw about being able to disagree without being disagreeable comes to mind.

          I don't want to see the factions harden into opposing armies. The "Tastes great" vs. "Less filling" beer commercials were silly, let's don't be silly.

          All of this obviously applies to all "sides" in the melee, the unwavering supporters of President Obama and those of us with various qualms. In this instance neither the Republicans nor the "undecideds" are very important--this is about us.

          I actually hadn't realized the extent of the criticisms President Roosevelt got from the progressives of his day. To that extent, anyway.  Learning or being reminded that we've been divided even in FDR's time gave me a healthier perspective on some of our present harshness.

          I'm more convinced now than ever, though, that venturing into posts/diaries written by someone whose views one knows they don't share with the sole intent to be disruptive hurts us even more than it helps Rove. Goes for everybody. When people are trying to understand varying views or even sharing some insight which they are offering in a collaborative manner this site serves a vital service. That's too often not what we see. Rather the same tired insults are presented as a substitute for persuasion.

          Shriller or calmer can be a matter of taste and personal preference. It does seem reasonable to ask ourselves if our approach is "working."

  •  Don't be sad (0+ / 0-)

    The other diary was meh as well.

    They didn't take baby steps when they saved the Rich.

    by Whimsical Rapscallion on Sun Aug 28, 2011 at 08:10:37 AM PDT

  •  I don't know about Rove operatives (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    James Kroeger

    but certainly a good number of these so called "centrists" might be happier in the future if they align with this newly forming third way movement. From what I've read it sounds to me like their cup of tea.

  •  Uh, dude... (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Had Enough Right Wing BS

    People who self identify as centrist outnumber people who self identify as liberal by two to one.

    Poll after poll shows the nation self identifies ~40% conservative, ~40% conservative and ~20% liberal.

    When you can alter the way people self identify, you can fundamentally advance liberal causes.

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