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Today Jamal Eishayyal reported in Al Jazeera/English that he found some papers in the office of Abdullah Alsinnousi, head of Libya's intelligence service and one of the most fear men in Libya, that seem to document the communications of several prominent US citizens with the Qaddafi regime in the months before it was overthrown. The following information request is said to be from Congressman Dennis Kucinich:

Good Morning Gentlemen.
This is the Congressman you both spoke with. He is going to fight for us but he has asked us for evidence. I can bring whatever we can gather. If it is sensitive I will carry it, otherwise we can email it. House to vote next week on ending US involvement in Libya

l.Any corrupt (verifiable) acts by the Opposition leaders. Include any personal motives for instance to make money or gain certain types of power.
2.Any known Al-Qaeda operating in the Opposition.
3 .Any evidence of atrocities committed by the Rebel soldiers.
4-.Any evidence of Civilian deaths by NATO.
5 .Any evidence of arms sales to the Opposition in Benghazi or Misrata, including dates, who sold the weapons, what type and the cost of the deals.
6.Any evidence of weapons being smuggled on boats to Misrata, with dates. and type of weapons.
7.Any evidence that the uprising was a planned event prior to February 17th. Include intercepted communications, names, dates.
S.Evidence supporting that the Regime has a regular practice of hiring African military in its Pan-African units and this was not a new (mercenaries) thing just for the uprising.
9.Communications with the UK and USA prior to the UN bombings to show Regime was trying to negotiate peacefully.
10.Evidence of cease fires by the Regime or withdrawals of troops. Dates, location, description (including why cease fire broke down).
11.Evidence that before the uprising started, there were democratic projects under way, for instance a plan for elections and so forth. This shows that they were already going this way and aren't just saying that now.
l2.Evidence that The Leader had already planned to step down before the uprisings. This shows there was already a transition going on. It also helps him save face for when he does step down because it will look like that was the plan all along.
l3.A list of tribes and location known to be loyal to Regime, those pledging loyalty to Opposition, and the remaining ones that have not pledged either way. The population of each group as well, This shows that the Rebels don't have the full support of the country.
l4.A list and description (including date and location) of humanitarian efforts by Regime since this started, or their attempts to aid the civilian population, and any efforts blocked by NATO or the Rebels.
It will be used for:
A) A lawsuit against
B) Defending Saif in the ICC
C) Publicity to reform the image of Regime.
D) To help negotiation positions

At the time Kucinich was attempting to get passed a resolution which he authored that would mandate an immediate withdrawal of US forces from Libya absent congressional authorization. Dennis Kucinich has issued a response to this news to the Atlantic Wire:

"Al Jazeera found a document written by a Libyan bureaucrat to other Libyan bureaucrats. All it proves is that the Libyans were reading the Washington Post... I can't help what the Libyans put in their files... Any implication I was doing anything other than trying to bring an end to an unauthorised war is fiction."

While that reply would seem to indicate that this communication was a fabrication, earlier this week, Kucinich issued a press release defending his search for peace in Libya and confirming his contact with the Qaddafi regime:
Washington, Aug 26 - The Guardian newspaper recently reported that it found communications between me and an intermediary regarding a possible visit to Libya.

From the beginning of the conflict, I have led the effort in challenging the Obama Administration’s war in Libya and to seeking a just, peaceful resolution to the conflict.  My opposition to the war has been well-known, including through a number of pieces published in The Guardian.  

In my efforts to end the war, I have been contacted by many parties – including members of the Gaddafi regime and some with ties to the rebels. Reaching a just and peaceful solution requires listening to all sides.  


The Guardian article Kucinich is referring to is one published earlier this week and speaks of other found secret papers about an attempt to arrange a meeting between the Congressman and officials of the Qaddafi regime. The Guardian wrote:
On 22 June a letter sent to Libya's prime minister, Al-Baghdadi Ali al-Mahmoudi, by a US-based lobbyist for the regime, Sufyan Omeish, noted that Kucinich was "concerned that his personal safety in Tripoli could not be guaranteed". He preferred to conduct meetings with regime officials outside Libya. The plan was for Kucinich to meet "senior Libyan officials, including Gaddafi". The proposed trip never took place. Kucinich visited Syria instead.

The Al Jazeera article also reports on another document the appeared to be the minutes of a meeting between David Welch, former assistant secretary of state under George W Bush, and senior Libyan officials Abubakr Alzleitny and Mohammed Ahmed Ismail on August 2, 2011 at the Four Seasons Hotel in Cairo, a few blocks from the US embassy. Welch was advising the Qaddafi regime on how to win the propaganda war.

Copies of the documents can be found on the Al Jazeera website at the above link. As the once secret business of the Qaddafi regime becomes public knowledge we can expect to get a much clearer picture of the workings of that regime as well as it's connections to it's US supporters.

Here is Al Jazeera's video report:

This diary posted a little before mine and has a very lively comment section:
Documents Found in Libya Say Dennis Kucinich Offered to Help Qaddafi

UPDATE - Wednesday, Sept 1, 2011: We have this additional info from Politco:

Kucinich told The Guardian that he had held an hour long telephone conversation with Libyan Prime Minister Al Baghdadi Ali al-Mahmoudi but ended up deciding to visit Syria, another country in the throes of protest against a violent dictator.

Hour long? Could this be the conversation recorded in the memo? Politico continues:
At first, Kucinich did not publicize his trip to Syria, in which he met with Syrian leader Bashar al-Assad. Rather, he was first spotted in Damascus by a CNN correspondent.

Soon thereafter, he gave a press conference to Syrian media in which he was quoted as saying, “President Bashar al-Assad cares so much about what is taking place in Syria, which is evident in his effort towards a new Syria and everybody who meets him can be certain of this.” Kucinich later disputed this reporting, saying that his message was lost in translation from Arabic.

I find it extremely interesting that Kucinich intended to keep his trip to Syria a secret. Why was he going there? We know from other reports [see above] that he refused a meeting with Qaddafi officials because he felt it was "unsafe" and suggested a meeting outside of Libya.

Now, where could such a meeting take place given the ICC indictments and the travel ban on Qaddafi officials? This raises the question of Kucinich's conduct if his trip to Syria involved a covert meeting with Qaddafi's representatives violating the travel ban or avoiding arrest. Might that be criminal?

More on Kucinich's defense of Qaddafi: Kucinich on NATO in Libya: ‘Gangsterism’

Rep. Dennis Kucinich, D-Ohio, may have gone too far even for the Puget Sound peaceniks he is courting as a potential carpetbagger candidate for Congress in Washington.

As much of the world celebrated the apparent fall of Libya’s Col. Gaddafi, Kucinich on Tuesday released a statement calling for NATO commanders to be hauled before the International Criminal Court.

“If members of the Gaddafi Regime are to be held accountable, NATO’s top commanders must also be held accountable through the International Criminal Court for all civilian deaths resulting from bombing,” said the seven-term Cleveland congressman.

“Otherwise, we will have witnessed the triumph of a new international gangsterism.”

Kucinich delivered a spirited defense of the dictator’s foreign policy while claiming he does not “sympathize with Colonel Gaddafi’s brutality.”  He also seemed to blame foreign investment for social conditions that led to the anti-Gaddafi rebellion.

“On December 19, 2003, Libya voluntarily gave up its nuclear weapon-making capability and on January 6, 2004 ratified the Comprehensive Test Ban Treaty,” he wrote.  “Its relationship with the US on the mend, Libya then opened up to international investment and began the wholesale privatization of its industries, leading to massive unemployment and dissatisfaction with the state of things, particularly among younger Libyans.”

For more background on the Libyan Revolution and links to lots of information see my other writings at the DailyKos and WikiLeaks Central:
BREAKING: Libyan TNC won't extradite Lockerbie bomber
Who really beat Qaddafi?
#Feb17: @NATO Please help MEDEVAC wounded from #Libya
What should those that opposed NATO's intervention in Libya demand now?
BREAKING: Qaddafi's Tripoli Compound Falls!
Does PDA Support Qaddafi?
BREAKING: Operation Mermaid Dawn, the Battle to Liberate Tripoli is JoinedHelter Skelter: Qaddafi's African Adventure
Qaddafi's Long Arm
SCOOP: My Lai or Qaddafi Lie? More on the 85 Civilians presumed killed by NATO
Did NATO kill 85 Libyan Villagers As Qaddafi Regime Contends?
CCDS Statement on Libya - a Critique
The Assassination of General Abdul Fattah Younis
NATO over Tripoli - Air Strikes in the Age of Twitter
How Many Libyans has NATO Killed?
Qaddafi Terror Files Start to Trickle Out!
Have Libyan Rebels Committed Human Rights Abuses?
Tripoli Green Square Reality Check
Behind the Green Curtain: Libya Today
Gilbert Achcar on the Libyan situation and the Left
NATO slammed for Libya civilian deaths NOT!
2011-07-01 Qaddafi's Million Man March
NATO's Game Plan in Libya
February 21st - Tripoli's Long Night
Did Qaddafi Bomb Peaceful Protesters?
Tripoli Burn Notice
Libyans, Palestinians & Israelis
'Brother' Qaddafi Indicted plus Libya & Syria: Dueling Rally Photofinishs
An Open Letter to ANSWER
ANSWER answers me
2011-06-22 No Libyans allowed at ANSWER Libya Forum
Are they throwing babies out of incubators yet?
Continuing Discussion with a Gaddafi Supporter
Boston Globe oped supports Gaddafi with fraudulent journalism
2011-04-13 Doha summit supports Libyan rebels
Current Events in Libya
Amonpour Plays Softball with Gaddafi
Arming Gaddfi
North African Revolution Continues
Is Libya Next? Anonymous Debates New Operation

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Comment Preferences

  •  Good for Kucinich (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    BigAlinWashSt, Johnny Q, Simian, socalmonk

    Gathering evidence is always a good thing. Maintaining dialogue with your enemies is always a good thing.
    Talking beats bombing every day.

    •  Kucinich was used a a propaganda tool (16+ / 0-)

      by the Syrian regime.

      In over his head.

      "[R]ather high-minded, if not a bit self-referential"--The Washington Post.

      by Geekesque on Wed Aug 31, 2011 at 01:59:08 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Gaddafi wanted talks (9+ / 0-)

      so he could buy time to massacre the opposition.  The notion that he was at all interested in "negotiation" with the revolutionaries is laughable.  Had Kucinich been successful, Gaddafi would have had carte blanche to murder his own people without interference while pretending he wanted to "talk."

      Fortunately for the Libyan people, the administration wasn't a dupe like Kucinich was.

    •  Kucinich is pro-Qaddafi, not just anti-war (7+ / 1-)

      Assuming this document is accurate and I believe it is, it shows that Kucinich wasn't just opposed to US or NATO intervention in the Libyan Revolution. He supported the Qaddafi regime and opposed the opposition attempting to overthrow a 42 year dictatorship.

      His request was for information that bolstered the Qaddafi regime and denigrated the uprising, you don't need to take that position to oppose US intervention.

      Why is he interested in defending Saif Qaddafi before the ICC?

      If Kucinich supports the Qaddafi dictatorship, then it follows that on that basis alone he would oppose US/NATO intervention.

      If his stand is based on a more general opposition to the use of the US war machine in the 3rd world, it does not necessarily follow that he would need promote oneside of the Libyan struggle while attacking the other.

      Remember history, Clay Claiborne, Director Vietnam: American Holocaust - narrated by Martin Sheen

      by Clay Claiborne on Wed Aug 31, 2011 at 02:44:44 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Got proof? (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        ZhenRen, beeninthewoods, socalmonk

        All i see linking it to Kucinich are the words "said to be."

        Said by whom?

        You may think that. I couldn't possibly comment.-- Francis Urqhart

        by Johnny Q on Wed Aug 31, 2011 at 02:52:54 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  actaully (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Johnny Q, beeninthewoods, socalmonk

        it shows nothing of the kind.  All it shows is that he talked to them.

        Talking to someone is far, far from supporting them.  IN fact, I remember not so long ago a major party in this country trying to score points by intentionally conflating the two.

        Intelligent, passionate, perceptive people will always disagree, but we should not let that disagreement, however heartfelt, lead us to become deaf to those better angels of our nature.

        by Mindful Nature on Wed Aug 31, 2011 at 03:12:50 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  It also shows what he talked to them about. (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          AnnetteK, conchita

          Only one of the info requests speaks directly to the question of US/NATO involvment:

          4-.Any evidence of Civilian deaths by NATO.

          All the rest only relate to NATO if you want to argue that NATO is on the wrong side, not that NATO should stay out of it. I breakdown his questions this way:

          Anti-opposition: 1-3, 5-7
          Anti-NATO: 4
          Pro-Qaddafi: 8-14

          So I think his RFC has a decidedly pro-dictatorship bent but you'll have to make up your own mind.

          Remember history, Clay Claiborne, Director Vietnam: American Holocaust - narrated by Martin Sheen

          by Clay Claiborne on Wed Aug 31, 2011 at 03:53:32 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  interesting (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            AnnetteK, conchita

            I hadn't read it that way.  I was just imagining that he was going to argue that both sides are bad, so we should stay out.

            I don't have a lot of use for either position, since this is one of the times I'm fully in Obama's camp.

            Still, sure doesn't have Kucinich comin out looking good, that's for sure.

            Intelligent, passionate, perceptive people will always disagree, but we should not let that disagreement, however heartfelt, lead us to become deaf to those better angels of our nature.

            by Mindful Nature on Wed Aug 31, 2011 at 03:57:02 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

      •  Not true (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Johnny Q, socalmonk

        I assure you, Clay, that Kucinich is not 'pro-Gadaffi'. He's anti-war and pro-Constitution. If you want a pro-Gadaffi official, look to John McCain.

        But then you think PDA, CCDS and a whole lot of people opposed to Nato's schemes on this matter are 'pro-Gadaffi,' so it really doesn't matter, save that your credibility on this topic is now zero, as far as I'm concerned.

        •  it appears you have little to no familiarity (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Clay Claiborne, catilinus, sewaneepat

          with what has been happening in libya.  i am no fan of mccain, but he has been staunchly in favor of the libyan revolutionaries.

          Brothers & sisters of #Egypt, you have given the world the most precious gift: the belief that ultimately right will prevail. -Desmond Tutu

          by conchita on Wed Aug 31, 2011 at 08:27:56 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  I judge people by the effect of their policy not (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          conchita

          what they say they are for. For example, nobody claims to be for hunger and yet there are many hungry people in a world that could produce enough for all. Soon none will be found that are self-identified Qaddafi supporters.

          Are you saying this document is a fake? Because that is not a claim that Kucinich is making. The Libyan intelligence assessment above is

          He is going to fight for us

          Which I take to mean they think he is pro-Qaddafi but now I know it's not true because you say it's not.

          As so the others who shout down the freedom fighters while promoting Qaddafi talking points but still complain that they aren't pro-Qaddafi, I've already addressed how things stand with ANSWER, CCDS and PDSSM in the DKos.

          Remember history, Clay Claiborne, Director Vietnam: American Holocaust - narrated by Martin Sheen

          by Clay Claiborne on Wed Aug 31, 2011 at 09:15:41 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  Like I was saying... (0+ / 0-)

          Now even Russia is saying they have always opposed Qaddafi as it recognizes the NTC. Russian FM: Russia supports bring down Gaddafi but not by NATO means.

          Naturally they neglect the fact that the revolution chose the means of armed response to armed attacks almost a month before NATO.

          (What was their plan - to talk him out of office but let him continue his killing spree while talks went on and on.

          What crap! Soon Cynthia McKinney will being saying she was never pro-Brother-Leader-King-of-all-African-trials.

          Remember history, Clay Claiborne, Director Vietnam: American Holocaust - narrated by Martin Sheen

          by Clay Claiborne on Thu Sep 01, 2011 at 07:43:50 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

    •  How do you figure this to be "good for kucinich"? (5+ / 0-)

      If this document is true, it would appear that he was trying to protect the Gaddifi regime while attacking President Obama in his effort to stop the NATO operations. This is a regime and a man who have committed acts of cruelty against other human beings, this is supposed to be good for Kucinich? If the notion behind this wasn't so despicable I would laugh....

  •  Unbelievable... (10+ / 0-)

    I saw this earlier and I felt sick to my stomach.  Colluding with Gaddaffi.  Nothing worse.

    •  Well, colluding with (7+ / 0-)

      Assad must be a close second.

      Beware the Spinning Vase of Death!!!

      by AnnetteK on Wed Aug 31, 2011 at 02:16:25 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Call me dense (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Johnny Q, zett

      But the US has put a lot of dictators in power thenhad to take them out. Rumsfield/Saddam?  Many others?  Guess I amnot understanding the picture here.

      Obama is complicit in the Bush/Cheney war crimes and every vote for him in 2012 is a vote approving of the Bush/Cheney/Obama war crimes.

      by snoopydawg on Wed Aug 31, 2011 at 02:58:34 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  the u.s. put dictators in place in the past and (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Clay Claiborne, sewaneepat

        bolstered them while they began to massacre people.  

        this is an administration that attempted to STOP dictators/rulers that are massacring their people instead of supporting them.

        that is the difference we have with this administration and those of previous administrations.

        i'm all for standing up for human dignity and preventing innocents from being slaughtered while standing by and doing nothing.

        It's the Supreme Court, Stoopid!

        by edrie on Wed Aug 31, 2011 at 05:33:32 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Right (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Johnny Q, socalmonk

          Tell that to the people in Gaza. We give Israel 3 billion of our taxes. And Columbia, who murder unionists?  It has not stopped.

          Obama is complicit in the Bush/Cheney war crimes and every vote for him in 2012 is a vote approving of the Bush/Cheney/Obama war crimes.

          by snoopydawg on Wed Aug 31, 2011 at 07:50:08 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  unfortunately it won't in the near or far future. (0+ / 0-)

            the u.s. isn't the world's police force and we cannot control other governments.

            we can, however, try to influence them- sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.

            we live in an imperfect world where we are not the world's police.

            and, then again, those on the right want to see the united nations dismantled - they are the closest thing to a world police force, imho.

            and, under bush, we refused to join the initernational court - which is why it is critical to have dems in office. that choice would have been very different under a democratic president, imho.

            It's the Supreme Court, Stoopid!

            by edrie on Thu Sep 01, 2011 at 01:47:48 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

  •  Not seeing any proof to your title. Perhaps you (4+ / 0-)

    could add something like "Alleged".  
    Some of the wording in that alleged letter is a little far fetched imo.  And the Congressman is denying it.  

    S.A.W. 2011 STOP ALL WARS "The Global War on Terror is a fabrication to justify imperialism."

    by BigAlinWashSt on Wed Aug 31, 2011 at 02:13:38 PM PDT

  •  This is silly. (7+ / 0-)

    It sounds like the right wing's freakout over Jim McDemott going to Baghdad.

    Politics is the art of changing what's possible.

    by happymisanthropy on Wed Aug 31, 2011 at 02:20:05 PM PDT

    •  Logan Act (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      conchita

      Adam B pointed out in another thread that the conduct may be criminal under 18 U.S.C. section 953.

      •  and (4+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Simian, ZhenRen, Johnny Q, socalmonk

        a war unrelated to American security and not authorized by Congress might also be illegal.  There's no way that the Administration would want to put these two theories in front of a judge.

        We already knew what Kucinich was doing, so I don't understand why there's so much outrage about it now.  Is any of this really new?  Is it shocking that Kucinich might tell a foreign government that he is going to continue doing what he's doing?

        Politics is the art of changing what's possible.

        by happymisanthropy on Wed Aug 31, 2011 at 03:16:38 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  So you knew all along that he was pro-Qaddafi? (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          conchita

          And not just anti-war?

          Many of us didn't before this.

          I, for one, didn't know he was talking to the Qaddafi regime. I didn't know he seeking info to support the Qaddafi regime or attack the protesters.

          This is breaking news for me and heart breaking news for others.

          Remember history, Clay Claiborne, Director Vietnam: American Holocaust - narrated by Martin Sheen

          by Clay Claiborne on Wed Aug 31, 2011 at 03:40:17 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  You're stretching here (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Johnny Q, socalmonk

            Where is the direct, irrefutable evidence he
            supports Qaddafi? He might be weighing evidence to use to oppose our military interventions, but that can't be conflated to mean actual support.

            Kucinich is a die hard antiwar activist. It's "Ocam's Razor" to assume his motivations stem from that.

            •  What does defending Saif Qaddafi before the ICC (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              AnnetteK

              have to do with opposing our military intervention?

              This document, which Kucinich has not called inaccurate or a fake clearly says:

              He is going to fight for us

              What do you think that means?

              Remember history, Clay Claiborne, Director Vietnam: American Holocaust - narrated by Martin Sheen

              by Clay Claiborne on Wed Aug 31, 2011 at 04:25:31 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  The document (2+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                Johnny Q, socalmonk

                does not prove Kucinich said or did anything. Is DK's signature on it?

              •  That was the opinion of somebody in Qaddafi's (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                Johnny Q

                regime, which I don't trust.  If it had been a signed document by Kucinich saying "I'm going to fight for them (Qaddafi's regime)" you might have a point.  What you have right now is a thinly-sourced attempt to smear Kucinich.  This comment is coming from someone who wanted the rebels to be helped, but who understands my fellow lefties not trusting the US or NATO motives in getting involved. I also fear the strengthening of the unitary executive idea every time the President does not get authorization from Congress for military action, even as I wanted the rebels to be helped.  I can look at folks who didn't agree with me about getting involved in Libya and not need to smear them as some kind of tyrant lovers. Besides, until the rebellion pushed the issue, it was official policy of the United States Government to work with Qaddafi because he was supposedly helping us against terrorism, the sufferers of Lockerbie be damned.

                Maybe Kuch hadn't got the memo yet that we weren't BFF with Moammar anymore?

                Snark aside, Kucinich has long gone outside the borders of what the status quo approves in seeking peace.  It doesn't mean he supports a tyrant's form of government, it just means that he wants the viewpoint of all sides.  If Obama did the same in some talks, would you say he supports dictatorship? Has Obama only spoken to the totally pure in heart during his time as President? If he's talked to bad guys, then why can't members of Congress?

                Kucinich was probably just trying hard to find all the evidence he could to show that the story isn't as simple as "NATO and US good and pure" - as lefties are wont to do.  It's all that bloody history, I guess...

                If the US didn't have such a long history of going into other countries and fucking them up for our capitalists' gain and calling that robber-baron bullshit democracy,  the US government wouldn't be so distrusted by the left that it can't even trust action against a bastard as horrible as Qaddafi.

                And, to the writer of the smear: why is is important to you to slam Kucinich?

                Ah, who needs Free Republic or even Rush Limbaugh when you can get the left smeared as enemy-loving traitorous bastards right here on good ol' Daily Kos.

                No wonder I'm on antidepressants and think this country is doomed.

                •  Still waiting for Kucinich to deny he ever made (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  conchita

                  these info requests, wasn't interested defending Saif Qaddafi, etc. Still waiting for him to say this document is a fake, otherwise it stands un-refluted.

                  So far he hasn't. What we have is a "denial" that really denies nothing.

                  Remember history, Clay Claiborne, Director Vietnam: American Holocaust - narrated by Martin Sheen

                  by Clay Claiborne on Wed Aug 31, 2011 at 05:58:11 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  Call somebody a pig fucker and make him (2+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    Johnny Q, socalmonk

                    deny it.

                    If he denied it, would you believe him?

                    •  Nobody called him names (1+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      conchita

                      An AJE reporter found a document that purports to be a record of a meeting. From this record we can draw certain conclusion.

                      It's hard to imagine why the Qaddafi bureaucrats would make something like that up. What do they have to gain? Even if Kucinich was just opposed to NATO intervention, why would they want to undermine that?

                      Also note, he is not claiming that AJ fabricated it, he acknowledges that Qaddafi's people wrote it, but he hasn't said that the covered conversation never took place.

                      Remember history, Clay Claiborne, Director Vietnam: American Holocaust - narrated by Martin Sheen

                      by Clay Claiborne on Wed Aug 31, 2011 at 07:01:21 PM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  I can read context (2+ / 0-)
                        Recommended by:
                        Johnny Q, socalmonk
                        I can't help what the Libyans put in their files

                        Is a politer way of saying "They are saying bullshit about me."

                        Kucinich saying he did indeed meet with them doesn't automatically make what they put in their files true.  You are equating two things to paint Kucinich as some kind of traitor which is worse than calling him a pigfucker, but just as useful politically.

                        "He didn't deny it!" Not in your preferred words, that's all.

                        •  He doesn't have to be impolite, he just has to say (0+ / 0-)

                          that what they put in the files isn't true. He "denied it" in such a way that if it turns out to be true he can still say he didn't lie. Now really, what kind of denial is that?

                          Remember history, Clay Claiborne, Director Vietnam: American Holocaust - narrated by Martin Sheen

                          by Clay Claiborne on Wed Aug 31, 2011 at 09:24:30 PM PDT

                          [ Parent ]

                          •  I was being hyperbolic (0+ / 0-)

                            no, Kuch wouldn't be impolite and say a word like bullshit - but I can imagine just being annoyed by the question and answering the way he did.

                            So what if he talked to Qaddafi? Lots of people, in and out of Congress, have.  If you post a document from a reputable source that shows that Kuch was trying to get them weapons to fight the rebels, then you'll have a point.

                            If Kuch is guilty of anything, it may be a tad overabundance of idealism.   That would be more in keeping with the guy I have read and followed for a few years now than some nefarious reason.  The most apparently unforgivable thing that Kucinich does is step outside the mainstream.  It saddens and frustrates me when liberals seem to tolerate that no better than conservatives do.

          •  In the sense (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Johnny Q

            that Jim McDermott was pro-Saddam?

            Politics is the art of changing what's possible.

            by happymisanthropy on Wed Aug 31, 2011 at 04:09:09 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

      •  Please link to that diary so we can have cross (0+ / 0-)

        communications. I for one would like to see that comment.

        Remember history, Clay Claiborne, Director Vietnam: American Holocaust - narrated by Martin Sheen

        by Clay Claiborne on Wed Aug 31, 2011 at 03:17:33 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  Other stories on this topic (0+ / 0-)

    at least mention a "former Bush administration official" in their headlines.

    Even if that was a mere assistant something-or-other at State, it might balance the story a bit to mention him at the top of the story, and by name.

    Yesterday's weirdness is tomorrow's reason why. -- Hunter S. Thompson

    by Mnemosyne on Wed Aug 31, 2011 at 02:28:44 PM PDT

  •  If this is true (5+ / 0-)

    I am not shocked.

    May the road rise up to meet you. May the wind be always at your back.

    by GlowNZ on Wed Aug 31, 2011 at 02:46:55 PM PDT

  •  Best to be wary of "found secret documents" (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    socalmonk

    just lying around an office.  I seem to recall during the Iraq debacle(which is still continuing) "secret" documents were found linking an antiwar British MP to illegal oil sales.  Documents that were later determined to be fake.  

    Is Kucinich mentioned By Name?  Has the document been verified?

    You may think that. I couldn't possibly comment.-- Francis Urqhart

    by Johnny Q on Wed Aug 31, 2011 at 03:05:04 PM PDT

    •  Then why doesn't he make a clear denial? (0+ / 0-)

      He's not exactly saying that this is a fake document. Why not?

      If he never made these requests then he should say so.

      If they must be referring to some other congressman, then he should say so.

      If he has had no contact the the Libya intelligence service, then he should say that.

      Instead he complains that he can't control what Libyans put in their files. He doesn't need to say that. We already know that. Nobody said he was running the Libya intelligence service. He is just stating the obvious.

      He has yet to say this is fake document planted to frame him,.

      Remember history, Clay Claiborne, Director Vietnam: American Holocaust - narrated by Martin Sheen

      by Clay Claiborne on Wed Aug 31, 2011 at 03:16:01 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Ladies and Gentlemen, I give you the Far Left's (0+ / 1-)
    Recommended by:
    Hidden by:
    socalmonk

    darling in Congress, colluding with Gaddaffi to stick it to The (American) Man. I wanna puke.

    I support torturous regimes! Also, I kick puppies.

    by eataTREE on Wed Aug 31, 2011 at 03:17:52 PM PDT

    •  Where do you see that? (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Johnny Q

      Even in this second-hand description of what DK wanted, I don't see anyone trying to stick it to Americans.  DK wanted Americans out of an illegal war.  Looking for dirt on the side being backed by the Man in said illegal war isn't going to hurt any Americans.

      Some men aren't looking for anything logical. They can't be bought, bullied, reasoned or negotiated with. Some men just want to watch the world burn.

      by Simian on Wed Aug 31, 2011 at 04:03:59 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  No kidding! (0+ / 0-)

        Funny how were it not for bread riots toppling the regimes in Tunisia and Egypt, Qaddafi would still be buddies with the US and UK governments, who were nice enough to parole of of his thugs for Libyan oil.

  •  Interesting but I'd think the Libyans don't take (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    nevadadem

    DK seriously either.

    "Slip now and you'll fall the rest of your life" Derek Hersey 1957-1993

    by ban nock on Wed Aug 31, 2011 at 03:21:23 PM PDT

    •  Actually my DK diary is read by many Libyan's (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      NedSparks

      I may constantly fall short on the recommends from Kossacks, but look at the number of times some of my most popular diaries on Libya have been shared and you get a different view. Most of those sharing it are in the Libyan opposition. A number of them have also been republished by feb17.info and other free Libya websites and many of them have been retweeted by Libya Youth Movement with almost 40k followers and many other Libyans.

      Now I realized by DK you probably mean Kucinich. Never mind.

      Remember history, Clay Claiborne, Director Vietnam: American Holocaust - narrated by Martin Sheen

      by Clay Claiborne on Wed Aug 31, 2011 at 03:33:42 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  This is not pretty. TPM is also saying (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    NedSparks, AnnetteK, conchita

    that Kucinich's office has not responded to requests that he clarify whether or not he met with Libyan officials.

    I guess he's going to need to respond to that request, and it probably won't just be TPM asking him to clarify that, either.

    This does not look good. Are United States Congressmen allowed to initiate and broker solutions with enemy dictatorships without express authorization?  And if not, what could the consequences be?

    "In all chaos there is a cosmos, in all disorder, a secret order." Carl Jung

    by Unduna on Wed Aug 31, 2011 at 03:31:41 PM PDT

  •  ...and Jane Fonda met with the Viet Cong. (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Johnny Q, skrekk, socalmonk

    How quickly we forget what it looks like to be against an illegal war.  How easy it is to accuse those against an illegal war to be supporting heinous dictators and terrorists.

    Some men aren't looking for anything logical. They can't be bought, bullied, reasoned or negotiated with. Some men just want to watch the world burn.

    by Simian on Wed Aug 31, 2011 at 04:02:04 PM PDT

  •  this makes me absolutely ill... (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    AnnetteK

    and reinforces why i actively dislike dennis kuchinich.

    he is out to promote... dennis kuchinich.

    he is the new "ralph nader"

    he is despicable.

    ugh!

    It's the Supreme Court, Stoopid!

    by edrie on Wed Aug 31, 2011 at 05:29:45 PM PDT

  •  Yeah, that fuckin' Kucinich guy, always trying to (0+ / 0-)

    use diplomacy instead of brute force...who the Hell let him in here, anyway?

  •  So Kucinich decided to conduct his own foreign (0+ / 0-)

    policy? There is nothing particularly damning in the letter but it looks like Kucinich decided to act as essentially an unpaid lobbyist for Lybian government. That's probably going to look bad for him.

  •  More Will Likely Come Out (0+ / 0-)

    I imagine there will be more revelations about Kucinich and his apparent support for not only Gaddafi, but Assad as well. To think he even wanted to impeach Obama for confronting this monster boggles the mind.

  •  They pulled the same crap on Galloway in 2003 (0+ / 0-)

    He ended up suing the Guardian and CSM for libel and both publications had to run cringing apologies for publishing forgeries meant to smear the man as a traitor.

    Unfortunately for Kucinich, American libel law is a joke.

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